I don't understand this punishment for kids...

[Donna]

My ds just started playing football this year. Multiply ages practice in the same area and start at the same time. Yesterday a tiny little boy (5 or 6yo) and his grandmom pulled up to practice late with her looking obviously harried. She looked at me as she was doing up his pads and said something about having to work late.

 

As the little boy ran onto the field the coach yelled for him to do 50 push-ups for being late.

 

Now, I question whether or not the little guy could even count to 50. I doubt that big old coach could even do 50 pushups himself from the looks of him. And all that is beside the fact that the little boy has no choice over when he arrives to practice...he is pretty much dependent on his ride who had obviously tried to get him there as soon as she could.

 

I could understand punishment for being late if it were a high school team and someone was late because they were fooling around at their locker and not getting to practice on time or maybe even if the grandmother had told the coach that they were late due to some fault of the child (though even in that case I think 50 pushups is a bit excessive).

[NanceXToo]

Coach sounds like an idiot on a power trip. For a 5 or 6 year old? Really? Ridiculous.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Coach sounds like an idiot on a power trip. For a 5 or 6 year old? Really? Ridiculous.

 

:iagree: Needs a clue.

[SailorMom]

That sounds ridiculous to me.

That boy obviously had no control over when he got to practice.

Middle school age or high school - fine. That age - well, I won't use the word here.

[Snickerdoodle]

Team sports require all team members to be there at game time.

 

The coach was probably trying to instill some sense of responsibility in the child and a "we're going to make your kid pay for your mistakes" punishment for the adult.

 

Totally ok in my book.

[unsinkable]

50 push-ups seems excessive but it is pretty common in sports to do this.

[NanceXToo]

Team sports require all team members to be there at game time.

 

The coach was probably trying to instill some sense of responsibility in the child and a "we're going to make your kid pay for your mistakes" punishment for the adult.

 

Totally ok in my book.

 

I get that. But 50 pushups? A 5 year old? Overkill. You know what my daughter's sensei does if a kid is late? He tells them they have to stand to the side and not participate in the class for the same number of minutes they were late, and that they can't "blame" their parents...those kids are mostly 8 and up, he's not telling them to do something they're not physically incapable of doing, he's teaching them responsibility even though we the parents ARE the ones who have to get them there, and I'm okay with it. But my 5 y/o would not be able to do 50 pushups. I would not be able to do 50 pushups. I think he's being too harsh.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Team sports require all team members to be there at game time.

 

The coach was probably trying to instill some sense of responsibility in the child and a "we're going to make your kid pay for your mistakes" punishment for the adult.

 

Totally ok in my book.

 

Wow, really? Assigning a near impossible physical feat that will hurt and humiliate a 6 year old is going to teach him to be responsible for something he can't do anything about?

Are you serious, "make your kid pay" to punish the long gone by now adult is an ok thing to do?

I don't think so at all.

[chepyl]

Team sports require all team members to be there at game time.

 

The coach was probably trying to instill some sense of responsibility in the child and a "we're going to make your kid pay for your mistakes" punishment for the adult.

 

Totally ok in my book.

 

He is 5 or 6. He has no control over his arrival time. It was not his mistake. At 5, anything should be about fun. How competitive could this team be, really. I would have pulled my son from the team if a coach acted like that.

[Snickerdoodle]

Wow, really?

 

Yes, really.

 

I would hate to be a coach and have kids wandering in whenever they felt like it at practice and the games. Well, it's the parent's attitude of "we will show up when we can or feel like it." Very demoralizing.

 

Plus, I'm not big into molly coddling kids.

[Snickerdoodle]

Have you wandered over to the boy scout thread?

 

Sounds like boys there need 50 pushups.

[Snickerdoodle]

nm

[FiveOaksAcademy]

Team sports require all team members to be there at game time.

 

The coach was probably trying to instill some sense of responsibility in the child and a "we're going to make your kid pay for your mistakes" punishment for the adult.

 

Totally ok in my book.

 

 

I don't think so. The child is 5. Even if he was 8 or 9 I "might" agree, but 5?

 

That coach is the type of extreme sports guy that made me want to NOT put my little ones in sports. We dealt with that enough with my older ones.

 

Dd was 8 and playing soccer. The game was so important to the coach that she made her own very gifted dd play and play until she threw up in the middle of the field, even after asking to come in and get a drink and rest!! We just HAD to win!! :confused: I just don't understand people! :glare:

[Snickerdoodle]

What has the boy done in this situation?

He was not at practice on time.

 

Now he sees the importance of being on time.

[Snickerdoodle]

He has no control over that. His caregiver was not on time.

 

It's still an important lesson to learn, regardless.

[Donna]

Team sports require all team members to be there at game time.

 

The coach was probably trying to instill some sense of responsibility in the child and a "we're going to make your kid pay for your mistakes" punishment for the adult.

 

Totally ok in my book.

 

I am all for instilling a sense of responsibility in a child but how can you instill responsibility in a child for something they have no control over? Grandmom had to work late and got him there as quickly as possible...they were only about 5 minutes late and the team had just lined up to warm up. Sometimes things happen.

 

Like I said, if grandmom had told the coach the child was late because he lost his shoes or didn't pick up his Legos or something, I could even see some sort of punishment. I wouldn't have even minded if it was my 13yo who was late and had to do 50 pushups...even if it was my fault. It is the age of the child coupled with the severity of the punishment that made me go...huh?

 

My kids' sensei made the kids stand out for as long as they were late like someone else mentioned but not the 5yos. It should be a fun, learning experience at that age.

[Snickerdoodle]

Obviously we disagree. That's ok.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Not very effective in my estimation but not unusual in my experience.

[kalanamak]

 

Plus, I'm not big into molly coddling kids.

 

Nor I, but this makes me happy I'd always hesitated and stopped before enrolling in a team sport. "Here, I punish you because I can't punish your parent". Sure life is unfair, but I believe the best way to prepare a child for the unfairness of HUMAN behavior is a good grounding in human fairness plus an honesty in the "unfairness" of nature. 5 is too young to let a child know I am content with human unfairness in such an unequal contest (big grown up, small child).

 

To be a "right" person, imprinting in early childhood with "right" behavior, to model the technique and to prove the possibility, is crucial.

[chepyl]

He was not at practice on time.

 

Now he sees the importance of being on time.

 

So really, Grandma should be doing push-ups. But that's absurd, right?

 

I agree that it would have been better to make him sit and watch practice. He missed warm-ups, he could get hurt since he dis not stretch and properly prepare his body. That would he acceptable. I have that policy for my dancers. But I don't make them do push-ups for being late when they can't drive.

[Carrie12345]

I've been told our local football coaches have late 5 and 6yos run laps, even though it's well known that work schedules and traffic are difficult around here. A parent who works until 5 CANNOT make it to the field locations by 6.

 

Ds's baseball coaches had the boys (11-13) do 2 to 5 push ups for every ground ball they missed in practice - in a lighthearted manner - and few of THEM could actually do that many at a time. Calling for 50 from such a little kid is just plain mean.

[Snickerdoodle]

I have that policy for my dancers. But I don't make them do push-ups for being late when they can't drive.

Pushups are good for girls. It gives the arms a nice shape.

 

 

I think there's something different about the way men interact with boys. I'm always careful not to let my girly self jump in and save my boys from it. Chickification and all that.

[tmulcahy]

I have never understood why a child is punished for the lateness of the parent/caregiver. If the caregiver had stated we are late because the child was doing so and so then I think that is understandable. Not to mention that a lot of people get out of work at 5:30 and a 6:00 practice is impossible to make.

 

Btw- what 5yo child can really do 50 push-ups. I'll bet NONE! A lap would have been much more appropriate if the coach felt the need to be a parent and child bully.

 

I have been at baseball practice where the coach tried to make a fool out of a child who showed up late. The dad spoke up and said, "It is my fault, you see, he does not drive. This is the earliest I could get here from work and we can just leave if you'd like." It shut the coach up pretty quickly.:tongue_smilie:

[SailorMom]

My son's soccer coaches started very young penalizing for being late - but it always seemed age appropriate to me. Last year (ds was 12) lateness meant laps. Obviously he still can't drive himself - but he is old enough to be capable of nagging me to get him there on time - and to tell time and know how long it takes to get to practice.

 

A 5 year old can barely read a clock, has no concept of how long it takes to drive anywhere, and it wouldn't occur to him to 'nag' his parent or grandparent. I guess I don't see how this is developmentally appropriate at all, and I am a total hard--- - I'm told I'm a mean/tough parent all the time.

 

Certainly there needs to be a talk on lateness, and team effort, etc. But it needs to be done with the parents as well as the kids at that age.

 

That coach will very possibly make some of his kids hate football and leave the sport. At 5 and up to about 8-9 or so - it should be about fun, learning team work,physical fitness, and getting the kids to play the next year.

[Haiku]

Team sports require all team members to be there at game time.

 

The coach was probably trying to instill some sense of responsibility in the child and a "we're going to make your kid pay for your mistakes" punishment for the adult.

 

Totally ok in my book.

 

That's great, if team members drive themselves to games. I'm guessing a five year old can't do that.

 

This is one of the things I hate about organized sports: the idea that they are somehow the most important thing going and life should revolve around them. Now, my kids play hockey and love it. I play hockey and love it. My dh plays hockey and loves it. We love hockey ... you get the idea. But you know what? The minute my dh or I have to work late (or early, as the case is for me, as I work evenings) is the minute my kids are late to practice/games (unless we can find a friend/family member to help out). We make effort to be there on time. But the JOBS that support our family come first. Without question.

 

Making a small child do ridiculous amounts of push-ups because his grandmother had a responsibility to her job does NOTHING to instill responsibility in a child, and having to work late to support her family is NOT a "mistake" the grandmother needs to be punished for. I'm shocked someone would think it is.

 

Tara

[chepyl]

Pushups are good for girls. It gives the arms a nice shape.

 

 

I think there's something different about the way men interact with boys. I'm always careful not to let my girly self jump in and save my boys from it. Chickification and all that.

 

I make my dancer do push-UPS as a part of warm UPS and as punishment for chatting, but only the 10+ year olds. 5 year olds get a time out.

 

Chickification? Really? It is our job to protect our kids. If someone mistress my 5 year old son, I will jump in. My reactions are different now than they were when he was 2and will change as he gets older. Am I making him girly? No. I truly hate the idea that boys have to he so much tougher than girls. They are 5! They are on am emotional and developmental rollercoaster. They need someone who can stand up for them.

[mcconnellboys]

Kids that age can't even do full push-ups, typically! They are usually asked to do modified push-ups and I would be concerned about a kid that age doing even 20 full push-ups if it were expected that they do them properly....

[stripe]

Yes, really.

 

I would hate to be a coach and have kids wandering in whenever they felt like it at practice and the games. Well, it's the parent's attitude of "we will show up when we can or feel like it." Very demoralizing.

 

Plus, I'm not big into molly coddling kids.

Make the grandma do 50 push ups then. It'll make her arms shapely.

 

I'm not big into coddling the elderly.

 

Leave the kid alone.

[Snickerdoodle]

Make the grandma do 50 push ups then. It'll make her arms shapely.

 

I'm not big into coddling the elderly.

 

:lol:

[Dmmetler]

When my DD played soccer, the coach threatened to make the PARENTS run if the girls were late for a game. I don't think he ever followed through-but at least he made it clear that he understood that the 6-7 yr old kids wouldn't be driving themselves across town :).

[Snickerdoodle]

You're on to something there. Make them both drop and give 50.

[unsinkable]

I'll say upfront that I think 50 push-ups for a 5 yo is excessive.

 

Yes, kids can't drive themselves to practice but parents do have other options if they are going to be late:

 

1. Carpool.

2. Call the coach and warn him/her the child will be late.

3. Skip practice.

4. Join a different league with different times and expectations.

[woolybear]

Being the parent of kids who play sports and don't drive yet, I have to say that when they get there is not totally dependent on me. They also sometimes dawdle, don't get ready in time, or sometimes just cause a problem before heading out the door. I'm not directly saying whether I agree with this coach, but just pointing out that even a five year old can help or hinder being on time.

[justamouse]

That's great, if team members drive themselves to games. I'm guessing a five year old can't do that.

 

This is one of the things I hate about organized sports: the idea that they are somehow the most important thing going and life should revolve around them. Now, my kids play hockey and love it. I play hockey and love it. My dh plays hockey and loves it. We love hockey ... you get the idea. But you know what? The minute my dh or I have to work late (or early, as the case is for me, as I work evenings) is the minute my kids are late to practice/games (unless we can find a friend/family member to help out). We make effort to be there on time. But the JOBS that support our family come first. Without question.

 

Making a small child do ridiculous amounts of push-ups because his grandmother had a responsibility to her job does NOTHING to instill responsibility in a child, and having to work late to support her family is NOT a "mistake" the grandmother needs to be punished for. I'm shocked someone would think it is.

 

Tara

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Mom0012]

Not ok. How is that his fault?

 

:iagree: And I imagine the grandmother's job takes priority over a pee wee football game. I thought it was supposed to just be fun at this age.

 

Lisa

[Harriet Vane]

That's great, if team members drive themselves to games. I'm guessing a five year old can't do that.

 

This is one of the things I hate about organized sports: the idea that they are somehow the most important thing going and life should revolve around them. Now, my kids play hockey and love it. I play hockey and love it. My dh plays hockey and loves it. We love hockey ... you get the idea. But you know what? The minute my dh or I have to work late (or early, as the case is for me, as I work evenings) is the minute my kids are late to practice/games (unless we can find a friend/family member to help out). We make effort to be there on time. But the JOBS that support our family come first. Without question.

 

Making a small child do ridiculous amounts of push-ups because his grandmother had a responsibility to her job does NOTHING to instill responsibility in a child, and having to work late to support her family is NOT a "mistake" the grandmother needs to be punished for. I'm shocked someone would think it is.

 

Tara

:iagree:

[Parker Martin]

This sounds perfectly normal to me.

 

It's worse for the kid to get the message that being on time doesn't matter. Next time he probably won't dawdle while he gets ready for practice, and he'll probably push grandma to be on time. If they truly can't be on time, no big deal, he'll just do the pushups again.

 

It's not a big deal to be given this type of punishment at a sports practice. They're dealt out all the time. It's not humiliating. It's part of the team building.

 

Whether or not team sports is worthwhile at five or six is another issue, but I'll let that lie.

[unsinkable]

What are the other options for children who are late?

 

My thoughts:

1. Punish all lateness with age-appropriate consequences.

2. Let everyone be late with no consequences.

3. Decide on a case-by-case basis which late player should be punished for lateness.

 

Picking #2 is out, IMO.

#3 has logistical problems and would be difficult for coaches to deal with in the chaos before practices and games...so that is why they (coaches) pick #1.

 

 

ETA: In this post, I neglected to write that this what I think COACHES are thinking. I am not going to change the original but I had written previously in the thread that what happened to the 5 yo was excessive.

Edited September 9, 2011 by unsinkable

[celticmom]

Can you complain to the league anonymously that you were offended to witness this? I think that coach desparately needs to learn the meaning of age appropriate and to be taken down many notches. I would not want such a person(although I am not altogether certain he deserves such a respectful designation) to have acess to my child(ren). I am very strict with my child but that is over the top to the point of abusive!

[Parker Martin]

What are the other options for children who are late?

 

My thoughts:

 

1. Punish all lateness with age-appropriate consequences.

2. Let everyone be late with no consequences.

3. Decide on a case-by-case basis which late player should be punished for lateness.

 

Picking #2 is out, IMO.

#3 has logistical problems and would be difficult for coaches to deal with in the chaos before practices and games...so that is why they (coaches) pick #1.

 

:iagree: Exactly. Two and three would kill team morale.

[Parrothead]

 

I have been at baseball practice where the coach tried to make a fool out of a child who showed up late. The dad spoke up and said, "It is my fault, you see, he does not drive. This is the earliest I could get here from work and we can just leave if you'd like." It shut the coach up pretty quickly.:tongue_smilie:

Way to go Dad! I wish more parents would do the same.

 

My son's soccer coaches started very young penalizing for being late - but it always seemed age appropriate to me. Last year (ds was 12) lateness meant laps. Obviously he still can't drive himself - but he is old enough to be capable of nagging me to get him there on time - and to tell time and know how long it takes to get to practice.

 

 

In my family nagging is not appropriate behavior from anyone. I'm sure there are others with the same rule.

 

This puts the kid between a rock and hard place.

 

I think if the parents can't get the kid to practice consistently the parent should rethink his/her commitments.

 

 

But the JOBS that support our family come first. Without question.

 

Making a small child do ridiculous amounts of push-ups because his grandmother had a responsibility to her job does NOTHING to instill responsibility in a child, and having to work late to support her family is NOT a "mistake" the grandmother needs to be punished for. I'm shocked someone would think it is.

 

Tara

:iagree:Totally.

 

I do not agree with the lack of family in today's world. Competitiveness has become king. Work first, sports first, everything else then family. We are losing something important.

[Parker Martin]

Who has actually played sports? If you've played sports, you know that he didn't really have to do 50 pushups. However goofy most of those "pushups" were, he's going to feel great all week telling people that he did fifty pushups at football practice.

[In The Great White North]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaraTheLiberator

That's great, if team members drive themselves to games. I'm guessing a five year old can't do that.

 

This is one of the things I hate about organized sports: the idea that they are somehow the most important thing going and life should revolve around them. Now, my kids play hockey and love it. I play hockey and love it. My dh plays hockey and loves it. We love hockey ... you get the idea. But you know what? The minute my dh or I have to work late (or early, as the case is for me, as I work evenings) is the minute my kids are late to practice/games (unless we can find a friend/family member to help out). We make effort to be there on time. But the JOBS that support our family come first. Without question.

 

Making a small child do ridiculous amounts of push-ups because his grandmother had a responsibility to her job does NOTHING to instill responsibility in a child, and having to work late to support her family is NOT a "mistake" the grandmother needs to be punished for. I'm shocked someone would think it is.

 

Tara

 

 

:iagree:

 

And I imagine the grandmother's job takes priority over a pee wee football game. I thought it was supposed to just be fun at this age.

 

:iagree:

 

The coach needs to get a sense of perspective.

 

2. Let everyone be late with no consequences.

 

Why is this "out?"

 

The most appropriate and effective "consequence" would be for the coach to call the caregiver/parent at another time and discuss it. Using a child to "get at" an adult is always inappropriate.

 

FTR, I am a coach. I know some kids cannot make it to practice on time. Ever. I do not feel they should be denied the opportunity to play because of their parents schedule.

[Parker Martin]

FTR, I am a coach. I know some kids cannot make it to practice on time. Ever. I do not feel they should be denied the opportunity to play because of their parents schedule.

 

Obviously, if they work something out with you, that's different than random lateness.

[Haiku]

 

2. Let everyone be late with no consequences.

 

 

I'd go with number two for young kids. My kids don't want to be late to hockey. (And I honestly can't think of a time they were ... but theoretically they could be.) Being late and missing part of the fun would be the consequence/punishment for them. Adding a manufactured punishment to drive home a point they already understand but have no control over really defeats the fun of sports ... and aren't they supposed to be fun? Really, if my kids were punished for my work schedule, the lesson they would learn would not be, "Wow, it's really important that I get to practice on time." The lesson they would learn is, "Wow, my coach is really mean/unreasonable."

 

With young kids, don't worry about lateness. The kids who want to be there generally will be there and won't make lateness a habit. The kids who don't want to be there will eventually drop out. It's a self-correcting problem. Once kids are old enough that they can drive themselves to practice, I can see instituting consequences for lateness. But even then, be reasonable. Sometimes my dd has to leave practice early so she can watch the little kids when I go to work. I talked to her coach about it ahead of time and told him that I have to work so that our family can pay the bills and eat. On game days I make other arrangements, but on practice days, if she has to be home, she has to be home, and that's that. Sports will not trump jobs. Period. I'm not paying a babysitter my hourly wage so my dd can practice. It has nothing to do with her commitment or lack thereof to the team and everything to do with the realities of life in this modern world.

 

Tara

[unsinkable]

:iagree:

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

The coach needs to get a sense of perspective.

 

 

 

Why is this "out?"

 

The most appropriate and effective "consequence" would be for the coach to call the caregiver/parent at another time and discuss it. Using a child to "get at" an adult is always inappropriate.

 

FTR, I am a coach. I know some kids cannot make it to practice on time. Ever. I do not feel they should be denied the opportunity to play because of their parents schedule.

 

It's *out* as an option for most coaches because being on time is important to the successful running of a team.

[Laurie4b]

I have been at baseball practice where the coach tried to make a fool out of a child who showed up late. The dad spoke up and said, "It is my fault, you see, he does not drive. This is the earliest I could get here from work and we can just leave if you'd like." It shut the coach up pretty quickly.:tongue_smilie:

 

Yes. Exactly. Bullies back down when someone their own size takes them on.

[Heather in Neverland]

Ridiculous.

 

The coach is on a power trip.

[unsinkable]

I'd go with number two for young kids. My kids don't want to be late to hockey. (And I honestly can't think of a time they were ... but theoretically they could be.) Being late and missing part of the fun would be the consequence/punishment for them. Adding a manufactured punishment to drive home a point they already understand but have no control over really defeats the fun of sports ... and aren't they supposed to be fun? Really, if my kids were punished for my work schedule, the lesson they would learn would not be, "Wow, it's really important that I get to practice on time." The lesson they would learn is, "Wow, my coach is really mean/unreasonable."

 

With young kids, don't worry about lateness. The kids who want to be there generally will be there and won't make lateness a habit. The kids who don't want to be there will eventually drop out. It's a self-correcting problem. Once kids are old enough that they can drive themselves to practice, I can see instituting consequences for lateness. But even then, be reasonable. Sometimes my dd has to leave practice early so she can watch the little kids when I go to work. I talked to her coach about it ahead of time and told him that I have to work so that our family can pay the bills and eat. On game days I make other arrangements, but on practice days, if she has to be home, she has to be home, and that's that. Sports will not trump jobs. Period. I'm not paying a babysitter my hourly wage so my dd can practice. It has nothing to do with her commitment or lack thereof to the team and everything to do with the realities of life in this modern world.

 

Tara

 

That was one of my suggestions earlier in the thread.

 

Trust me, I am not encouraging parents to skip work for sports or insulting parents whose kids are late for sports. I have said there are other options.

 

As for lateness in hockey, around here, hockey is the most strict. That ice time is precious and costs mucho moola.

[Haiku]

As for lateness in hockey, around here, hockey is the most strict. That ice time is precious and costs mucho moola.

 

Yes, I certainly understand that!! :D I guess I just don't really get the idea that "I know I'm going to be late" would get a pass but "I was late this one time because of something my parents didn't anticipate" would get a punishment. Seems counter-productive.

 

Tara