Interesting article on German Kindergarten

[Mom in High Heels]

Our local post paper comes out every Thursday and a few weeks ago it had an article telling American parents stationed here to try German kindergarten. I have several friends whose kids go to (or have gone to) German kindergartens and they are very different from American K. You can read the full article here.

 

These are some of the points I thought I'd share:

 

Helping and sharing are important aspects of the daily routine at kindergarten. Children will be asked to help others, clean up toys are even help with setting a table or preparing a simple meal. Also, at most German kindergarten, children will go outside to play each day, so do not be surprised if you are asked to leave a raincoat or rubber boots for your child at the kindergarten.

During the finaly year of kindergarten, between the ages of five and six, children are considered to be in Vorschule, or preschool.

Before entering the first grade, children do not go through an academic curriculum.

"Like most kindergartens, at the Unionsgemeinde [one of the schools discussed in the article] we teach the children to write their name and work with simple numbers, but we also take trips to the fire department, police department or the vet to educate them," Haeufle said.

From a parental perspective, taking you child to a German kindergarten will need some open-mindedness. "It has been a little challenging for us at first just because it is totally different from what we are used to expecting with American schools. The learning environment is laid back. Most of the time is spent playing in areas with different themes. The kids learn without even realizing it...."

 

 

This has been the experience of everyone I know with kids in German kindergarten. The language barrier has not been a barrier as it usually takes only a few weeks for the child to pick it up. The kids all love going to school and even those who have moved on to 1st grade at the American school have had no problems with the work required. I visited one of the schools with my friend one day and there were lit candles on the table where the kids were eating and the children each had a sharp knife. I was astounded, but my friend said that was a common thing for them. The kids go to the kitchen and help cut fruits and vegetables. Can you imagine this going on in America? Can you imagine lit candles in the room?

 

Indy went to a private K in the States and it was NOT mostly playing. It was a very strict academic program with hours of seated instruction each day.

 

Do you think the American system is too academic and rigorous?

Edited September 1, 2011 by Mom in High Heels

[Joyofsixreboot]

Sound like what kindergarten used to be. We choose a play based pre-school for the same reasons, even though we HS.

[LidiyaDawn]

That sounds like the sort of kindergarten that dd14 went to when she was little. :001_smile:

[Jyniffrec]

Do you think the American system is too academic and rigorous?

 

Yes! :001_smile: This is more like what I experienced as a child in the late seventies.

[asta]

I totally cracked up one day when I went to pick up Switzerland from German kindy: it was sweltering outside, so they had all of the kids stripped down to their undies and running through sprinklers.

 

All I could think of was the absolute HELLFIRE that would have rained down on an American school that would do such a thing.

 

But, yeah - sharp knives, candles, walking in cities next to busy streets - once they even all took the train to a totally different town! All I knew was that I was supposed to pack a lunch that day, LOL.

 

Best memories EVER.

 

 

a

[sgilli3]

My older 2 went to a preschool that was purposely built to facilitate the Reggio Emilia style of educating

Currently the 5 year old is at preschool which also follows this teaching method.

 

It is child led- they pour their own water from glass carafes,have a dedicated art room ( with many mediums used: pottery wheel, oil paints, charcoal etc). The centre is filled with natural light and is full of tactile items.

They have a woodwork area ( yes, real hammer and nails), a purpose built mud pit ( used all year round), a dry river bed, with a grassed area to lay on and look at the windmill.

There are plenty of fruit trees planted and tons of vegetable beds.( which were harvested by the kids)

 

There were/are no set timings for snack time, and the children could opt to eat in or out. If eating in, there were always tablecloths on the tables, and the children had access to proper china to use.

 

Light tables were scattered around the rooms for the kids to use, along with plenty of sensory areas ( slime tubs etc)

 

Certainly, what DH and I call pretty close to perfect preschool yeasr for our kids.

[snowbeltmom]

Helping and sharing are important aspects of the daily routine at kindergarten. Children will be asked to help others, clean up toys are even help with setting a table or preparing a simple meal. Also, at most German kindergarten, children will go outside to play each day, so do not be surprised if you are asked to leave a raincoat or rubber boots for your child at the kindergarten.

 

I visited one of the schools with my friend one day and there were lit candles on the table where the kids were eating and the children each had a sharp knife. I was astounded, but my friend said that was a common thing for them. The kids go to the kitchen and help cut fruits and vegetables. Can you imagine this going on in America? Can you imagine lit candles in the room?

 

 

 

This German school sounds very similar to my kids' Montessori school.

[Marie in Oh]

we just got back from Germany and the Kindergarten visited the park next to us each week. They were totally laid back with the children. We would see them all over the village walking. We saw young children walking everywhere by themselves or in pairs. Our neighbor was in grade 1 and walked home (2 kilometers) from school each day. They teach them early to be very independent. In Grade 5, the children take the train 8 km each day to the middle school. It is TOTALLY different. Not all good, not all bad.

[RainbowSprinkles]

I went to kindergarten in Germany. If I lived there now I would send my dc in a heartbeat!

[Soror]

That sounds like my house :) Love it, now I can just say we are doing the German kindergarten style :) The kids love to help cut veggies!

[Heather in Neverland]

It is so interesting how cultures approach this differently. That model would NEVER fly here. We have an all day kindergarten that is very heavy on academics and I STILL get parents complaining that we aren't rigorous enough. They want more languages, more homework, higher math, higher reading, etc.

 

They do NOT want their kids outside for very long and preferably under a cover of some sort. They don't want them wet or dirty in any way. I can hardly get them to send their kids in tennis shoes so they can run around at recess (instead of fancy dress shoes).

[Sushi's Mom]

Sounds like Montessori here.

[LidiyaDawn]

My older 2 went to a preschool that was purposely built to facilitate the Reggio Emilia style of educating

Currently the 5 year old is at preschool which also follows this teaching method.

 

It is child led- they pour their own water from glass carafes,have a dedicated art room ( with many mediums used: pottery wheel, oil paints, charcoal etc). The centre is filled with natural light and is full of tactile items.

They have a woodwork area ( yes, real hammer and nails), a purpose built mud pit ( used all year round), a dry river bed, with a grassed area to lay on and look at the windmill.

There are plenty of fruit trees planted and tons of vegetable beds.( which were harvested by the kids)

 

There were/are no set timings for snack time, and the children could opt to eat in or out. If eating in, there were always tablecloths on the tables, and the children had access to proper china to use.

 

Light tables were scattered around the rooms for the kids to use, along with plenty of sensory areas ( slime tubs etc)

 

Certainly, what DH and I call pretty close to perfect preschool yeasr for our kids.

 

Okay now I want to go to that preschool. :laugh:

[FaithManor]

It is so interesting how cultures approach this differently. That model would NEVER fly here. We have an all day kindergarten that is very heavy on academics and I STILL get parents complaining that we aren't rigorous enough. They want more languages, more homework, higher math, higher reading, etc.

 

They do NOT want their kids outside for very long and preferably under a cover of some sort. They don't want them wet or dirty in any way. I can hardly get them to send their kids in tennis shoes so they can run around at recess (instead of fancy dress shoes).

 

 

:crying::( That makes me very sad! Too much pressure on little ones.

 

Faith

[Matryoshka]

Are they comparing apples to apples?

 

In German, the program they call Kindergarten is for 4yos and what we could call Preschool.

 

The 5yos go to Vorschule (translated as Preschool), the level we would call Kindergarten. This is confusing. :)

 

That said, the German model is heavily influenced by Waldorf, which of course is not into early academics and very much into art and nature (and has lit candles at the snack table, yes, even here in the US). We did a lot of Waldorfy stuff when my kids were young.

[regentrude]

Are they comparing apples to apples?

In German, the program they call Kindergarten is for 4yos and what we could call Preschool.

 

The 5yos go to Vorschule (translated as Preschool), the level we would call Kindergarten. This is confusing. :)

 

 

Yes, "Kindergarten" begins at age 3. Many kids attend the Kindergarten right up until they enter regular school in 1st grade at age 6, Vorschule at age 5 is optional, not offered everywhere, and I know very few kids who participate in a separate Vorschule.

Most Kindergartens have some special school prep activities for the 5 year olds - for maybe an hour per day.

Even for the Vorschule programs for the 5 y/olds it is true that they do not do formal academics - they might color and cut and do some structured riddles, but will not learn to read or do math.

[8circles]

I think that sounds lovely. Kind-of like what we do here at home (minus the lit candles as I'm a clutz).

 

I think we can all generalize what qualities we would like to see in our K programs. But it still isn't a one-size-fits-all. There are 'normal' kids who would not be able to thrive in that environment. What then?

 

As an aside & totally a tangent but this post reminded me of them. I have a friend who was an elementary school teacher in Germany for several years before marrying an American & moving to the States. She talked constantly about how she wanted to move back to Germany while her kids were still elementary age because she thought their schooling would be superior. Then she had kids & her second child was diagnosed on the Spectrum but very mild. I wouldn't have known had she not told me. She now refuses to even consider returning to Germany. Ever. It's been 5 years & she hasn't changed her mind.

[merry gardens]

It is so interesting how cultures approach this differently. That model would NEVER fly here. We have an all day kindergarten that is very heavy on academics and I STILL get parents complaining that we aren't rigorous enough. They want more languages, more homework, higher math, higher reading, etc....

That model USED to be kindergarten here. Even the word kindergarten is based on German--it means something like child's garden in German.

 

I do not like heavy academics in K. My kindergarten here--at a public school in the US many years ago-- was very much like the article described, (w/o the sharp knives.)

[NanceXToo]

I think that sounds wonderful.

 

I HATED my daughter's academic, strict Kindergarten, it was the first step that led to me finally pulling her out toward the end of third grade and beginning to homeschool her instead.

 

It was one of the reasons that led me to choosing the curriculum I did, which is creative, hands-on, Waldorf-inspired and not overly academic in the early years. So at least my son will have the sort of Kindergarten I think kids should have!

[Stacy in NJ]

Now it sounds more like pre-school at a typical private Pre-K.

[Parker Martin]

The preschool that my son went to last year and will be going to this year has a kindergarten program that is very much like that. I don't think they'd go for the candles or sharp knives, but the rest sounds the same.

[Jennifer3141]

Although I despised Waldorf on many levels, I loved the candle on the table and the kids using knives. :D

[Karen in CO]

Yes! :001_smile: This is more like what I experienced as a child in the late seventies.

:iagree: That sounds like the kindergarten I went to in the early '70's. Helping, sharing, playing.... We even helped to make our own snacks. It is also a reason I didn't send my kids to K here. Modern kindergarten is far from what I had.

[Mom in High Heels]

 

That said, the German model is heavily influenced by Waldorf, which of course is not into early academics and very much into art and nature (and has lit candles at the snack table, yes, even here in the US). We did a lot of Waldorfy stuff when my kids were young.

 

Well, of course the German model is based on the Waldorf model. Steiner (who came up with the model) was German and opened the first Waldorf school in 1919 in Stuttgart, Germany. The first Waldorf school in the US was opened in 1928. BTW, the Waldorf-Astoria cigarette company asked Steiner to set up a school for the factory workers children. That's where the name Waldorf comes from.

 

That model USED to be kindergarten here. Even the word kindergarten is based on German--it means something like child's garden in German.

 

I do not like heavy academics in K. My kindergarten here--at a public school in the US many years ago-- was very much like the article described, (w/o the sharp knives.)

 

You got the translation almost exactly right.

 

I too did not like the heavy academics of Indy's K. It was too much and he was exhausted at the end of every day. Not from playing (they had a 15 minute recess), but from sitting and doing too much academics.

[Bootsie]

Our family spent five weeks in Austria and Germany this summer. Several weeks into the trip my 15 year old made a comment out of the blue: "Mom, have you noticed that kids are much happier here than they are at home?"

[Matryoshka]

Well, of course the German model is based on the Waldorf model. Steiner (who came up with the model) was German and opened the first Waldorf school in 1919 in Stuttgart, Germany. The first Waldorf school in the US was opened in 1928. BTW, the Waldorf-Astoria cigarette company asked Steiner to set up a school for the factory workers children. That's where the name Waldorf comes from.

 

Yes, I know that. :) I was going to add that the reverse is also true - since Steiner was German, large chunks of what people here think is uniquely "Waldorf" is really culturally German - like the Lantern Walk on St. Martin's Day. But I decided that was getting OT. :tongue_smilie: That's actually part of what attracted me to Waldorf in the early years.

[Mom in High Heels]

Our family spent five weeks in Austria and Germany this summer. Several weeks into the trip my 15 year old made a comment out of the blue: "Mom, have you noticed that kids are much happier here than they are at home?"

 

Interesting that your 15yo picked up on that. Doesn't it seem sad?

[deacongirl]

This German school sounds very similar to my kids' Montessori school.

Yup, same here.

[eloquacious]

since Steiner was German, large chunks of what people here think is uniquely "Waldorf" is really culturally German

 

Yes! So true.

 

I was born and partially raised in Germany. I attended German Kindergarten, 1st and 2nd grade. Then I was in the U.S. for 3rd-9th, and back in Germany 10th-13th.

 

I have extremely fond memories of Kindergarten involving MANY hours playing outside. (And yes, we went swimming naked or nearly naked in the summer time.) I don't remember candles, but we certainly used knives, and I recall hammering real nails around that age, though that was at home. Not sure if we did that in K, too. ;)

 

My least favorite part of Kindergarten was the enforced naps. I could never get my brain to stop. ;)

 

I don't know for sure if we started to learn to read and write in K or Vorschule, but I do know they taught me to see my name, and possibly write it. The only items I have from that time have my name on them in the teacher's writing, so I can't be sure.

 

I like the idea that Vorschule (Preschool, or K for us) is just the last year of Kindergarten. It ties it to what we would consider the "preschool" years far more than to school. It is telling that in the U.S. preschool is often a separate thing and K belongs to the school. (Many schools are K-5, K-8, etc.)

 

One thing to bear in mind, though, is that German is a highly regular phonetic language. Looking at all the rules and exceptions I have to teach my son about English, I pine a little for German, and wish we were living there now. That being said, when I entered the U.S. schools, I didn't speak English. I remember that they put me in a language lab with some Dick and Jane videos (aka whole language). Perhaps the fact that I had learned phonics in Germany helped me through that, I'm not sure, but nevertheless, despite the fact that we didn't start formal academics until 1st grade, I was way ahead of my U.S. counterparts at the end of 2nd grade, and was coasting in 3rd grade.

[RainbowSprinkles]

Yes, I know that. :) I was going to add that the reverse is also true - since Steiner was German, large chunks of what people here think is uniquely "Waldorf" is really culturally German - like the Lantern Walk on St. Martin's Day. But I decided that was getting OT. :tongue_smilie: That's actually part of what attracted me to Waldorf in the early years.

 

 

Yes, a lot of what would be considered Waldorf or Waldorf-Inspired in the U.S. is just part of regular childhood in Germany.

 

I didn't go to a Waldorf Kindergarten, I just went to a regular German Kindergarten. I remember the Lantern Walk on St. Martin's Day, it was so much fun!! And why should that have anything to do with Waldorf? :)

[dirty ethel rackham]

This is what I remember from my kindergarten. I remember that tying one's shoes was cause for celebration. I learned to read in first grade and was reading at a 4th grade level by the end of 2nd grade. Not learning to read in K was not a hindrance to any of the kids I grew up with. There were some who needed more help in 3rd and 4th grade, but, for the most part, all the kids learned to read well in those 2 years.

 

So, yes, I do think there is something wrong with American kindergarten. It is developmentally inappropriate. Some kids are ready to learn quite a bit academically, but they are not ready for that mode of instruction (hours of seatwork.)

[5knights3maidens]

Sounds like here. :001_smile: My dd (now 8 adhd/pdd asd) has been cutting fruit and vegetables for a few years. My dh doesn't think it's a good idea but I tell him she's learning and she loves to make us fruit/veg salads, which can be very interesting. ;) But, he will give her nails and hammers and also let her "help" when he fixes the car. :confused::)

[Audrey]

Sounds a lot like I remember kindergarten being when I was little. I don't recall any candles in the classroom, but remember several field trips as mentioned and lots and lots of play outside, helping in the classroom, story time, art/crafts. I do remember copying letters and learning to write my name, and I also learned to tie my own shoes.

[ElizaG]

Just as a historical note, Kindergarten was invented by Friedrich Froebel, a German educator who lived almost a century before Steiner. There was a lot of emphasis on free play, music, and dancing, but the children also used "Froebel Gifts," which were blocks and other items meant to be presented in a specific manner and sequence. His model was very influential in North America -- far more so than Waldorf -- though kindergartens here tended to replace the special apparatus with a simpler box of unit blocks. Frank Lloyd Wright went to one of the more purist Froebel kindergartens, and he believed that it had a strong influence on his development as an architect.

 

While Steiner, Montessori, and Froebel kindergartens might have a lot in common to modern eyes (e.g., their use of natural materials, emphasis on practical activities, and lack of sit-down academics), they're based on very different philosophies and goals, and the atmosphere of the classroom reflects this. For example, Froebel was interested in helping young children to transition into the orderly adult world, while Steiner believed that they should stay in a protected "dreamy" state until age 7. So Waldorf tends to be heavy on curvy, organic wooden blocks that are used in open-ended fantasy play, whereas Froebel (and, to some extent, traditional play-based American kindergarten) emphasizes specific geometric shapes that are analyzed and used to build things.

 

Again, this is just for those who are interested in the history of early childhood education. Modern-day German kindergartens likely don't follow any of the above models closely. They do sound like lovely places, though. :)

[ElizabethB]

:)

 

Reminds me of our time in Germany, we enjoyed our tour there.

 

The naked children stories make me smile, too. Once, I was talking to a friend back in the states and he asked, "What is all that noise?" I said, "Oh, just the neighbor children running around naked." He didn't miss a beat and said, "Sounds like they're having fun. Maybe you should go join them." :lol::lol:

Edited September 1, 2011 by ElizabethB

[Lady Florida.]

That model USED to be kindergarten here. Even the word kindergarten is based on German--it means something like child's garden in German.

 

True, but what it implied was that the children are plants to be tended. I suppose a more accurate translation could be "a garden of children" rather than "a child's garden". Charlotte Mason wrote about it (and about Froebel) in her series, in School Education. She maintained that although kindergarten teachers do the best they can, home is still the best place for young children. She also believed that kindergarten tends to take away a child's individuality.

 

Edit - I found it online.

[LibraryLover]

The gorgeous play-based kindergarten at my older kids' private school is what first sucked us in. Hasn't changed much in all these years. The kids work in the garden, play in the woods, sled in winter etc.

 

My sister's son is starting in a Reggio-inspired kindergarten this fall and it is absolutely breathtaking. It's very different from most public Ks. I do know one respected K teacher in my town who has maintained a traditional & gentle K program. She is wildly popular, and many parents hope their children will be placed in her class.

 

Many of us feel a pressurized K program is detrimental to future academic success. Challenge and joy can go hand- in -hand in a developmentally appropiate way. I can't understand how tears can be a part of a good early childhood program. Home or school.

Edited September 2, 2011 by LibraryLover

[QueenCat]

 

Do you think the American system is too academic and rigorous?

 

YES! That was the main reason mine went to a half day, laid back, private program rather than the public ps. We didn't homeschool until they were older and we moved to the place you and I have both lived in.

[Matryoshka]

I remember the Lantern Walk on St. Martin's Day, it was so much fun!! And why should that have anything to do with Waldorf? :)

 

Just because no one here has heard of it in any other context. :) The Waldorf schools put on big Lantern Walks every year and tell the story of St. Martin and no one has any idea that isn't just a Waldorf thing. Same with the way they celebrate Advent, St. Nikolaus...

 

I also love the Maypole, which I think was done more widely in the US until the Communist party decided to make May 1st their Labor Day and somehow during the whole Red Scare period celebrating anything on May 1st was frowned upon. :confused:

[Deb in NZ]

Sounds like kindergarten & PlayCentre here in NZ. Kindy is for ages 3-5 & gov't run, although it isn't part of the PS. It is very developmental. My boys went to kindy & the only school-type activities I remember was circle time for 15 minutes at the beginning & end of the session. No formal reading, maths, etc. instruction. PlayCentre is like a parent-run kindy for ages birth-6. It is very developmental & play-based in it's organization. I remember being shocked to see a work bench with real tools (hammers, saws, drills, etc.), nails, boards, etc. that was child-size. All the kids had access to this even the toddlers. Kindys have such activity centres as well.

 

The developmental pre-school was perfect for my boys, but a couple more years of it would have been of benefit to ds#1. He went to PS on his 5th birthday as is the norm here. PS is full day, sit down & learn, paper & pencil style education. Ds#1 just wasn't ready for that & after just over 2 years we brought him home to learn. Ds#2 came home to learn when he turned 5 & we were able to slowly add formal academics into his daily learning time.

 

PS here in NZ still does have outside recess times, even in the highschools. Dd was shocked when she attended PS in the States for a term at 8yo to find that the class got no morning break & only 20 minutes at mid-day. Here in NZ everyone gets 30 minutes mid-morning & an hour for lunch. Primary schools have 4 1/2 hours of "classtime", while highschools have 5 hours of "classtime."

[FrogMom5]

Just because no one here has heard of it in any other context. :) The Waldorf schools put on big Lantern Walks every year and tell the story of St. Martin and no one has any idea that isn't just a Waldorf thing. Same with the way they celebrate Advent, St. Nikolaus...

 

I also love the Maypole, which I think was done more widely in the US until the Communist party decided to make May 1st their Labor Day and somehow during the whole Red Scare period celebrating anything on May 1st was frowned upon. :confused:

 

I went to high school in Honolulu and we celebrated May Day. We had a 1/2 day of school followed by an assembly where part of the activities was a May pole. It was fun!

 

To the OP: If there was a kindergarten near me like the one you describe, my dd would be there. It's what I want in a kindergarten.

Denise