Why do people adopt internationally?

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Can I just say (gently, as there are obviously some VERY strong feelings and raw emotions surrounding this topic...) that the way I read the OP was not in any way judgmental. She seemed to be asking a genuine question that I had always wondered about as well.

 

When people respond as if they had just been insulted and challenged it can shut down the conversation. I get it if someone asked you like,"But, why would you DO THAT?!" with a look of disdain.

 

Maybe I read it wrong, but I didn't read disdain in the OP, just genuine wonder....just like some would ask, "So, why did you choose MUS over another math program?" Not judgment, just question.

 

It would be different if it were a troll who had 7 posts. I get it when you read something like, "So, don't all of you agree that X group (spankers, Christians, non-Christians, etc.) are all evil and hate their children? Discuss" the warning bells go off, but.....this was a genuine question and a good chance to educate people who really did not know. Thanks to those who have explained. And, yes, you DON'T have to. I get that, too. Thanks for talking about it, anyway. :001_smile:

[Dobela]

Rose, is it that they CAN sign the papers at 10 days and then no changing minds, or that they must sign the papers and they are prohibited from changing their minds? I'm just wondering how the system is different. Here, there is so much leeway for the birth parents even after the baby is placed and everyone has bonded.

 

 

How long a birthmother is given to sign away her rights and if there is a grace period varies widely from state to state. In my state, the birthmother is given 10 days to change her mind after she signs the relinquishment papers. When we were researching adoption (in the late 90s) there were states that gave birthmothers up to 6 months or a year to change their mind - after the baby went to the adoptive home. Other states said once the papers were signed that the mother was done and could not change her mind.

[AngelBee]

Can I just say (gently, as there are obviously some VERY strong feelings and raw emotions surrounding this topic...) that the way I read the OP was not in any way judgmental. She seemed to be asking a genuine question that I had always wondered about as well.

 

When people respond as if they had just been insulted and challenged it can shut down the conversation. I get it if someone asked you like,"But, why would you DO THAT?!" with a look of disdain.

 

Maybe I read it wrong, but I didn't read disdain in the OP, just genuine wonder....just like some would ask, "So, why did you choose MUS over another math program?" Not judgment, just question.

 

It would be different if it were a troll who had 7 posts. I get it when you read something like, "So, don't all of you agree that X group (spankers, Christians, non-Christians, etc.) are all evil and hate their children? Discuss" the warning bells go off, but.....this was a genuine question and a good chance to educate people who really did not know. Thanks to those who have explained. And, yes, you DON'T have to. I get that, too. Thanks for talking about it, anyway. :001_smile:

 

:iagree: I have learned alot.

[Denisemomof4]

Mommaduck,

 

There is a very good reason for not wanting an open adoption. It's not malicious. In a good portion of the states, birthparents have many months, not days, not weeks, months and even up to three years to change their minds. That's right! You love them, you bond with them, you parent them, they are YOUR child, and bio mom or dad can up and one day decide to sue to get them back. Everything they "know" about your family after the child is placed with you can be used against you. We have five friends that have completed open adoptions. They will never do another one...NOPE! Each one has been a nightmare. Each one has ended up with their child being returned to the biological parent/s after being with them for a year or more. It is gut wrenching!!!!

 

Yet, in every closed adoption case, not one of our friends has lost their child.

 

It's real easy for everyone who has never gone through it to point fingers and assume ill of the adoptive parents. To be honest with you, I consider it an absolute miracle that any family anywhere is still willing to work in the system. It is astounding to me that there are still such things as adoptions in America because the system is that bad.

 

You could ask us how we know. You could ask about what happened to the 6 year old girl who was supposed to become out little girl a year ago this past Christmas. You could ask. I never posted much of anything about it and I probably never will. So, maybe no one should ask about it. It hurts too much! We are now out of the system...out of domestic adoption, out of international adoption, out of foster-to-adopt. Done. We.will.never.put.our.family.through.that.again.

 

I'm sorry if this comes across rude. We've been badly hurt through the concept of "open adoption" and I can't recommend it to anyone.

 

Faith

 

THESE are the reasons why we chose international.

 

Faith: :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

I'm not pointing fingers or thinking ill of people :) I do think people have the best of intentions most of the time. But many only see if from the side of the adopters, not the adoptees.

 

As an adoptee, I can't tell you how important it was for me to know who my other family was. Starting that one day, I finally felt that I had a connection, people that were like me, and people that called me kin. No, "you're not blood", "you don't look like the others", etc standing in the way. I know a lot of traditional adoptees feel the same way. I know that there are those that don't also (one friend that is an adoptee has no desire to know his bio family). Personally, I feel that the information should be kept on file and open to the adoptee upon reaching adulthood. (btw, I was disowned for finding my dad's sister as they knew I found out a lot of things that day...8yrs and no contact from my stepdad, my mother, nor my two half brothers on that side).

 

FaithManor, I know we are both coming at this from our own experiences. It always helps to understand the other side (even for me). At the same time, not all adoptees get "wonderful" families either (Imp's husband is another example). I think it's difficult for all three parties.

 

after hearing all the things that COULD happen in domestic adoption, we chose international. I felt comfort in knowing that my dd couldn't be taken away from me. Now that we have her, I'm deeply pained, and likely will be for the rest of my life, because I know her torment because she'll never see or know her own birth mom. Since she could talk she has expressed she wanted a Chinese mother. She has never accepted me. :crying: THE DAY she was handed to me is when she started the rejection process. I feel so bad for her.

[plansrme]

Short answer: Because children born elsewhere in the world are no less deserving of loving families than children born in the United States.

 

Longer answer: A child born in the U.S. and available for adoption will almost certainly get the chance to grow up at least physically healthy, and will have a chance for a good life. A child available for adoption in many, many other countries is quite likely to die before she reaches adulthood, and then to be destined to have a truly sucky life if she survives.

 

And yeah, I do find the question offensive, as it strongly implies that my Chinese-born daughter is less deserving of a family than a U.S.-born child. Every child deserves a loving family, regardless of where she was born.

 

Terri

[littleWMN]

Reecie, :grouphug:

[mommaduck]

after hearing all the things that COULD happen in domestic adoption, we chose international. I felt comfort in knowing that my dd couldn't be taken away from me. Now that we have her, I'm deeply pained, and likely will be for the rest of my life, because I know her torment because she'll never see or know her own birth mom. Since she could talk she has expressed she wanted a Chinese mother. She has never accepted me. :crying: THE DAY she was handed to me is when she started the rejection process. I feel so bad for her.

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry; that has to hurt so badly. All I wanted was for my mother to love me like she loved her sons and for my stepdad to truly treat me as his own and to be really part of a family. I didn't get that from them. I'm sure you are doing everything to give that to your daughter though. I wonder if it's not just ethnic identity crisis (I can relate some). Many hugs and prayers.

[AngelBee]

after hearing all the things that COULD happen in domestic adoption, we chose international. I felt comfort in knowing that my dd couldn't be taken away from me. Now that we have her, I'm deeply pained, and likely will be for the rest of my life, because I know her torment because she'll never see or know her own birth mom. Since she could talk she has expressed she wanted a Chinese mother. She has never accepted me. :crying: THE DAY she was handed to me is when she started the rejection process. I feel so bad for her.

 

:grouphug: For you and for her.

[AngelBee]

:grouphug: I'm sorry; that has to hurt so badly. All I wanted was for my mother to love me like she loved her sons and for my stepdad to truly treat me as his own and to be really part of a family. I didn't get that from them. I'm sure you are doing everything to give that to your daughter though. I wonder if it's not just ethnic identity crisis (I can relate some). Many hugs and prayers.

 

:grouphug:

[SKL]

It would be different if it were a troll who had 7 posts. I get it when you read something like, "So, don't all of you agree that X group (spankers, Christians, non-Christians, etc.) are all evil and hate their children? Discuss" the warning bells go off, but.....this was a genuine question and a good chance to educate people who really did not know. Thanks to those who have explained. And, yes, you DON'T have to. I get that, too. Thanks for talking about it, anyway. :001_smile:

 

Nobody is accusing the OP of being a troll. She said she wants to learn. One of the posters suggested she not ask such a question to an individual in person. That is very good advice and should be taken as part of the "learning" going on here. The OP took it as offense but it really was just a suggestion, as far as I could tell.

 

Yes, some of us are sensitive about the topic and we've tried to explain why. That should also classify as "learning" for those who did not know this before.

 

The world of adoption was all pretty new to me five years ago. Before, I probably didn't realize that a person celebrating a pregnancy needed to be careful of the feelings of those who struggle with fertility. That's just one example, but there were many times when I thought, "oh, I've done that, wish I could take it back." I don't blame people for being uninformed; but please take the correction as intended. Nobody came here today to bash a non-adoptive parent.

[NotSoObvious]

I have to step in here and disagree. My husband and I were both adopted. I was an infant (just a few days old when my mom took me home), he was adopted out of foster care at 6 months.

 

Neither of us has any significant interest in our birth families. We are curious, of course. But it's not a painful curiosity. (It's more of wondering why the heck our kids are so tall, or where the freckles on our younger son came from -- that kind of thing.)

 

Neither of us has/had RAD-type issues (thank goodness). Neither of us feels pain or loss related to our adoptions. I have had people try to convince me that I actually feel otherwise -- most of that comes from friends who have adopted kids. But, really, truly, I feel no need to contact my biological mother. We love the moms and dads who we have now.

 

I am not denying that plenty of other adoptees feel differently; I'm just pointing out that some of us feel fine and give our adoptions very little thought.

 

That is absolutely wonderful and probably a testament to a great upbringing. Obviously each child is different and I apologize if you felt I was implying that all adopted children have the same exact needs. But, to assume that adopted infants aren't going to suffer emotionally just because of their age, is naive. Of course they are going to have a shorter amount of time to be exposed to trauma, but it isn't a guarantee.

Also, there has been a lot of recent research that shows the need for kids to be able to know where they come from, which is why reunification is so heavily pushed in foster care and why open adoption is most common.

Obviously one glove doesn't fit all, but, that's kind of my point.

[SKL]

after hearing all the things that COULD happen in domestic adoption, we chose international. I felt comfort in knowing that my dd couldn't be taken away from me. Now that we have her, I'm deeply pained, and likely will be for the rest of my life, because I know her torment because she'll never see or know her own birth mom. Since she could talk she has expressed she wanted a Chinese mother. She has never accepted me. :crying: THE DAY she was handed to me is when she started the rejection process. I feel so bad for her.

 

I'm sorry! :grouphug: I hope she finds peace.

[LidiyaDawn]

The OP took it as offense but it really was just a suggestion, as far as I could tell.

 

 

No I didn't. :001_smile:

[AngelBee]

No I didn't. :001_smile:

 

I think you have been extremely gracious in your resonses. :grouphug:

[NotSoObvious]

I think it's interesting to hear that so many of you chose international adoption because of the fear of a U.S. child being returned to its birthparents. I haven't heard that as a common thread before, but it makes a lot of sense.

 

I also found this thread very interesting and I think it took the OP courage to ask about it. People ask about all kinds of touchy things on here and it's nice that we can share.

 

Not to high jack the thread, but it's interesting to read about what is going on between the Virginia father and the Utah adoptive parents. I can imagine high profile cases like this don't make adoptive parents feel warm and fuzzy, or birthfathers feel very secure.

 

Perhaps it will spark some changes in adoption laws. I can't understand why these things would vary from state to state in this day and age of internet and travel. Adoption laws should be extremely consistent and clear!

[AngelBee]

I think it's interesting to hear that so many of you chose international adoption because of the fear of a U.S. child being returned to its birthparents. I haven't heard that as a common thread before, but it makes a lot of sense.

 

I also found this thread very interesting and I think it took the OP courage to ask about it. People ask about all kinds of touchy things on here and it's nice that we can share.

 

Not to high jack the thread, but it's interesting to read about what is going on between the Virginia father and the Utah adoptive parents. I can imagine high profile cases like this don't make adoptive parents feel warm and fuzzy, or birthfathers feel very secure.

 

Perhaps it will spark some changes in adoption laws. I can't understand why these things would vary from state to state in this day and age of internet and travel. Adoption laws should be extremely consistent and clear!

Just googled. :( Hadn't heard of that story before.

[LidiyaDawn]

Can I just say (gently, as there are obviously some VERY strong feelings and raw emotions surrounding this topic...) that the way I read the OP was not in any way judgmental. She seemed to be asking a genuine question that I had always wondered about as well.

 

When people respond as if they had just been insulted and challenged it can shut down the conversation. I get it if someone asked you like,"But, why would you DO THAT?!" with a look of disdain.

 

Maybe I read it wrong, but I didn't read disdain in the OP, just genuine wonder....just like some would ask, "So, why did you choose MUS over another math program?" Not judgment, just question.

 

It would be different if it were a troll who had 7 posts. I get it when you read something like, "So, don't all of you agree that X group (spankers, Christians, non-Christians, etc.) are all evil and hate their children? Discuss" the warning bells go off, but.....this was a genuine question and a good chance to educate people who really did not know. Thanks to those who have explained. And, yes, you DON'T have to. I get that, too. Thanks for talking about it, anyway. :001_smile:

 

Thank you. :cool:

 

It is/was a genuine question.. it's evident that some of my words/ways of phrasing things weren't well liked by some, and I can understand that.. I wish I could have worded it perfectly, but hey - I'm not perfect and I'm gonna muck up stuff sometimes. Especially working on less than ideal sleep and fluffy baby brain. :p

 

I'd go back and edit it - but that feels like cheating. I said what I said and re-writing it would feel… deceitful. Y'know?

 

This thread is amazing though.. thank you, everyone, for sharing - and that's directed at *all of you*, including those who want to beat me about the head with a squeaky hammer. ;)

[HS Mom in NC]

1) Egg Donor/Sperm Donor labels

 

Usually (based on my personal experience-I've not done a scientific study or anything) these terms are used in reference to birth parents that were abusive or neglectful. This would cover the birth parents of most children in the US foster care system and some international adoptees.

 

Internationally, people place children for adoption for various reasons. With some of the social stigmas that birthmothers endure, "sperm donor" is reference to a birth father that callously left the birthmother to deal with this unwanted pregnancy (if he was around long enough to know about it at all) and she alone has to bear the consequences-sometimes for the rest of her life. Illegitimacy and adoption carry terrible social consequences in some countries. Toto, we're not in Kansas any more.

 

Since some foreign countries do not require the knowledge or consent of the birth father in adoption, many have absolutely no idea about the child they conceived. From a practical point of view they can be seen by some as just "sperm donors."

 

Witnessing the terrible effects of RAD and other attachment issues on adopted children from all countries and circumstances, it is very tempting to have a negative view of the birth parents who did not do right by their child during pregnancy and pre-placement. Not all children suffer this way, but when they do, it's terrible for their families.

 

Remember that while I don't think it's OK to use those terms, many birthparents have caused serious issues in their biological children. Each situation is different. I have a friend whose daughter is a Russian adoptee whose birthmother had to hide with her in a tree while the birthfather was chasing them with a knife trying to kill them both. I think in that circumstance, "sperm donor" is a generous term. Don't assume that because the term "sperm donor" was used in reference to one birth father that it means the person using it labels all birth fathers as such.

 

2) "Avoiding/Ignoring" birth families

 

Yes, there are some adoptive families who might like to do this, but suggesting that people who opt out of an open adoption generally have this motivation is nonsense. Yes, for some adoptees it is very important that they find their birth families and have a relationship with them. For others, there is no desire at all. Adoptive parents have to be 100% OK with either way since there is no way to predict if an adopted child will want this or not. Being an adoptive parent isn't for everyone.

 

For those of us adopting from countries with terrible social stigmas for birthmothers, we additionally have to be prepared to support our children if they do want to connect with the birthfamily and the birthfamily refuses (which is very common in S. Korea.)

 

3) RAD/Attachment Issues/damage by substances in utero

 

Factors have to be weighed in every situation. Yes, there are adopted/placed at birth situations that result in RAD and attachment issues. Yes, there are adopted/placed later in life after a terrible start situations that have well adjusted happy adoptees. What most people (particularly those with other minors in the house) have to take into consideration is which situations increase or decrease this likelihood, and regardless of the risk, how the families will deal with them. Adoption is no place for fantasy thinking. Reputable agencies will have classes on this and have an attachment therapist on staff or one they can refer parents to.

 

Children from terrible early life circumstances do have a higher risk. A close friend gave back a son they adopted through foster care because he tried to kill one of the other siblings in the home. He's so violent that he can not be placed in a home with other kids-ever. It's not his fault he was exposed to drugs in utero and in his early life, but they can't put other children's lives at risk because this kid got dealt one of the worst hands in life. He has all kinds of issues that will never be cured, and no child should have to bear the brunt of it.

 

4) Cultural Issues

 

In other countries adoption is seen as a taboo subject and few people in those countries are willing to adopt. Some countries have crushing poverty where most people can barley support the children born to them, much less can they support an adopted child. Some countries have horrible one child policies and social norms that make one gender less desirable than the other, so adoption doesn't happen by the native populations. The only hope some children in the world have is adoption in the West.

[melissel]

Just googled. :( Hadn't heard of that story before.

 

I did too, and now I wish I hadn't. That is absolutely horrendous. I can't believe any state government would endorse what is essentially legalized kidnapping like that :(

[AngelBee]

I did too, and now I wish I hadn't. That is absolutely horrendous. I can't believe any state government would endorse what is essentially legalized kidnapping like that :(

 

Scares me for my sons. :(

[Marylou]

Can I just say (gently, as there are obviously some VERY strong feelings and raw emotions surrounding this topic...) that the way I read the OP was not in any way judgmental. She seemed to be asking a genuine question that I had always wondered about as well.

 

When people respond as if they had just been insulted and challenged it can shut down the conversation. I get it if someone asked you like,"But, why would you DO THAT?!" with a look of disdain.

 

Maybe I read it wrong, but I didn't read disdain in the OP, just genuine wonder....just like some would ask, "So, why did you choose MUS over another math program?" Not judgment, just question.

 

It would be different if it were a troll who had 7 posts. I get it when you read something like, "So, don't all of you agree that X group (spankers, Christians, non-Christians, etc.) are all evil and hate their children? Discuss" the warning bells go off, but.....this was a genuine question and a good chance to educate people who really did not know. Thanks to those who have explained. And, yes, you DON'T have to. I get that, too. Thanks for talking about it, anyway. :001_smile:

 

I agree with you, except for the part about making a judgment. I was right with her wanting to understand the topic until she said, "Why do people do that when they could easily adopt right here?" It would be like a pencil thin person who's never had a weight problem in his life saying, "Why get bypass surgery when you can easily just stop eating so much?"

 

I appreciate this thread b/c I learned not to label something as "X" unless I have experience with it. And I did just read OP's explanation of writing the post the way she did, and I understand.

[Impish]

1) Egg Donor/Sperm Donor labels

 

Usually (based on my personal experience-I've not done a scientific study or anything) these terms are used in reference to birth parents that were abusive or neglectful. This would cover the birth parents of most children in the US foster care system and some international adoptees.

 

Internationally, people place children for adoption for various reasons. With some of the social stigmas that birthmothers endure, "sperm donor" is reference to a birth father that callously left the birthmother to deal with this unwanted pregnancy (if he was around long enough to know about it at all) and she alone has to bear the consequences-sometimes for the rest of her life. Illegitimacy and adoption carry terrible social consequences in some countries. Toto, we're not in Kansas any more.

 

Since some foreign countries do not require the knowledge or consent of the birth father in adoption, many have absolutely no idea about the child they conceived. From a practical point of view they can be seen by some as just "sperm donors."

 

Witnessing the terrible effects of RAD and other attachment issues on adopted children from all countries and circumstances, it is very tempting to have a negative view of the birth parents who did not do right by their child during pregnancy and pre-placement. Not all children suffer this way, but when they do, it's terrible for their families.

 

Remember that while I don't think it's OK to use those terms, many birthparents have caused serious issues in their biological children. Each situation is different. I have a friend whose daughter is a Russian adoptee whose birthmother had to hide with her in a tree while the birthfather was chasing them with a knife trying to kill them both. I think in that circumstance, "sperm donor" is a generous term. Don't assume that because the term "sperm donor" was used in reference to one birth father that it means the person using it labels all birth fathers as such.

 

2) "Avoiding/Ignoring" birth families

 

Yes, there are some adoptive families who might like to do this, but suggesting that people who opt out of an open adoption generally have this motivation is nonsense. Yes, for some adoptees it is very important that they find their birth families and have a relationship with them. For others, there is no desire at all. Adoptive parents have to be 100% OK with either way since there is no way to predict if an adopted child will want this or not. Being an adoptive parent isn't for everyone.

 

For those of us adopting from countries with terrible social stigmas for birthmothers, we additionally have to be prepared to support our children if they do want to connect with the birthfamily and the birthfamily refuses (which is very common in S. Korea.)

 

3) RAD/Attachment Issues/damage by substances in utero

 

Factors have to be weighed in every situation. Yes, there are adopted/placed at birth situations that result in RAD and attachment issues. Yes, there are adopted/placed later in life after a terrible start situations that have well adjusted happy adoptees. What most people (particularly those with other minors in the house) have to take into consideration is which situations increase or decrease this likelihood, and regardless of the risk, how the families will deal with them. Adoption is no place for fantasy thinking. Reputable agencies will have classes on this and have an attachment therapist on staff or one they can refer parents to.

 

Children from terrible early life circumstances do have a higher risk. A close friend gave back a son they adopted through foster care because he tried to kill one of the other siblings in the home. He's so violent that he can not be placed in a home with other kids-ever. It's not his fault he was exposed to drugs in utero and in his early life, but they can't put other children's lives at risk because this kid got dealt one of the worst hands in life. He has all kinds of issues that will never be cured, and no child should have to bear the brunt of it.

 

4) Cultural Issues

 

In other countries adoption is seen as a taboo subject and few people in those countries are willing to adopt. Some countries have crushing poverty where most people can barley support the children born to them, much less can they support an adopted child. Some countries have horrible one child policies and social norms that make one gender less desirable than the other, so adoption doesn't happen by the native populations. The only hope some children in the world have is adoption in the West.

Excellent post.

[Jennifer3141]

There is much pain in life. There is no need to add to it by being crass.

 

"Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you!" Isaiah 49:15

 

 

Well, since I don't believe in the bible that doesn't apply to me.

 

But I will not call someone who murders a child a "mother." Nope. Not going to happen. She was an egg donor and never one thing more to that boy.

[the4Rs]

While I have not adopted yet, this was very eye opening to read and I appreciate everyone's input. It was a great help.

 

And can I say how deeply sorry I am for all those who pursued adoptions only to meet with so many disappointments along the way. :grouphug:

[Ginevra]

I keep thinking I should write a book about it all, but my heart would break...again and again.

 

With God's wisdom and mercy, it all worked out, but I have to tell you that the day we officially "resigned" as foster parents, was a day dh and I breathed a huge sigh of relief. We knew that part of our lives was over and we weren't going to be put through the emotional wringer any longer.

 

:grouphug: I get it.

 

But it's only used for birth parents. No one calls Andrea Yates or Susan Smith an egg donor.

 

Using a derogatory term for some undesirable birth parents is like saying it's okay to call certain black people the N-word, maybe gang members or criminals. It's not okay, because it is offensive to all black people.

 

I just want people to know, that birth parents find that term horribly offensive even when you are speaking about certain birth parents.

 

I am not an egg donor for my oldest child any more than I am for the three that I raised. I chose adoption so my child would have the life I thought I couldn't give her. In doing so I created a family where there was not one. I carried that child for nine months, kept my pregnancy healthy, allowed the adoptive mother to hold her even before I did. I cared for that child for 3 days in the hospital and then I took her to her new home with her new family, and I left her there. Forever.

 

I did it because I loved her. That doesn't make me an egg donor. That makes me a mother with a gaping wound in my heart. It has been over 20 years since I gave my child away in an open adoption, and a day never goes by that I don't think of her. Birth parents can never forget.

 

Reecie, :grouphug: I am glad you wrote this post. It is so clear to me that culturally, having given up a child for adoption is a taboo subject. I lost a baby at birth. Your post really makes me think what it would be like to lose my daughter - not to tragedy, but because I unselfishly chose for her to have a family I could not give her. And then on top of that, to have this culturally taboo fact in my life and my past. It's rare that I tell people IRL about my daughter who died, because it's such an unhappy subject; people recoil. I imagine it is tenfold for a birthmother.

 

Words cannot express how moved I am by your story.

 

after hearing all the things that COULD happen in domestic adoption, we chose international. I felt comfort in knowing that my dd couldn't be taken away from me. Now that we have her, I'm deeply pained, and likely will be for the rest of my life, because I know her torment because she'll never see or know her own birth mom. Since she could talk she has expressed she wanted a Chinese mother. She has never accepted me. :crying: THE DAY she was handed to me is when she started the rejection process. I feel so bad for her.

 

Denise, just :grouphug:

[Johanna]

why not?

 

Just cause i live in America doesn't mean I have to only care about America. God is God of the world, not just america.

 

The suggestion that children should be adopted from this country first suggests that somehow American children are more important than the other children in the world. And, as a whole, children in this country simply are not as needy as children in other countries.

 

 

One Earth......many children w/o homes.

[DaffodilDreams]

I don't understand why anyone would question the motivations behind how people choose to build a family.

[Stellalarella]

I believe that there are many secure, well handled adoptions in our country.

 

With gentleness I say that we sometimes focus on the horrifying stories. I do understand why we share those personal stories but I believe that it can have the effect of scaring away people who desire domestic adoption, unless the adoptive parents do some research, soul searching and planning.

 

Adoption laws can be updated. Something that may have been true 10 years ago is now no longer the case because better laws were passed. The waiting period for my state was amended from 10 days to 6 days since our last adoption 3 years ago, for example.

 

God bless anyone who desires to parent a child through adoption. Domestic or International.

 

And God bless those adoptive parents as they experience the real challenge--it's not the miserable labor and delivery of paperwork, social workers, home studies, judges, waiting, restarting, heartbreak.

 

No, the real challenge is the hard work of parenting an adoptive child. And I say that with deep love and deeply experienced truth.

[LidiyaDawn]

I don't understand why anyone would question the motivations behind how people choose to build a family.

 

There's a difference between "questioning the motivations" and *asking what motivated someone to do do something* … the former seems to imply suspicion or hints at something negative… the latter is seeking to understand where a person is coming from… know what I mean?

[LidiyaDawn]

why not?

 

Just cause i live in America doesn't mean I have to only care about America. God is God of the world, not just america.

 

The suggestion that children should be adopted from this country first suggests that somehow American children are more important than the other children in the world. And, as a whole, children in this country simply are not as needy as children in other countries.

 

 

One Earth......many children w/o homes.

 

I actually believe very much in the idea of us all being part of one world - and I NEVER said that kids from other countries didn't deserve to be adopted or anything like that. ALL children - every colour, every culture - deserve a home where they are loved. :thumbup:

[DaffodilDreams]

There's a difference between "questioning the motivations" and *asking what motivated someone to do do something* … the former seems to imply suspicion or hints at something negative… the latter is seeking to understand where a person is coming from… know what I mean?

 

Nope. One and the same to me.

[sewingmama]

I had an online friend that almost adopted a special needs child of mixed race. The child was blind and those parents did everything they could for 2 years to help her reach her potential -everything was all about her.

 

She was placed in their home from birth and 2 years later the authorities came and took her and gave her to someone else because they felt the other parents would be a better match because they were the same race. It didn't matter that the child was absolutely thriving in the home she was already in.

 

So after 2 years of raising a child and giving her every advantage to help her progression - they were told in a single unexpected phone call to "pack up her things we are coming to get her tomorrow". :confused: A few weeks before the court date for them to finalise the adoption.

[LucyStoner]

Scares me for my sons. :(

 

I think dads have an obligation to be there for the pregnancy and birth. If a non-married dad wants to assume custody of a child the mother wishes to place up for adoption, he needs to be ready to step in from birth not after the fact. Unmarried men also have the option not to engage in premarital sex or to practice safer sex as well if they make the choice to be sexually active.

 

While the Utah laws may be skewed towards the adoptive parents, I honestly wonder if taking a toddler from the only home she has ever known is a just solution. In this case, it sounds like the dad was trying to be involved from the beginning and was not properly notified of the adoption plan so I guess the legal thing is for the baby to be returned to him. But it is still awfully sad for that baby to be taken away from her home.

Edited August 29, 2011 by kijipt

[Stellalarella]

I had an online friend that almost adopted a special needs child of mixed race. The child was blind and those parents did everything they could for 2 years to help her reach her potential -everything was all about her.

 

She was placed in their home from birth and 2 years later the authorities came and took her and gave her to someone else because they felt the other parents would be a better match because they were the same race. It didn't matter that the child was absolutely thriving in the home she was already in.

 

So after 2 years of raising a child and giving her every advantage to help her progression - they were told in a single unexpected phone call to "pack up her things we are coming to get her tomorrow". :confused: A few weeks before the court date for them to finalise the adoption.

 

Do you know what year this happened?

Policies about race matching have changed over the years. My state is an example.

When you share this story, are you certain of the facts?

[LidiyaDawn]

There's a difference between "questioning the motivations" and *asking what motivated someone to do do something* … the former seems to imply suspicion or hints at something negative… the latter is seeking to understand where a person is coming from… know what I mean?

 

Nope. One and the same to me.

 

Hmmm.

 

Okay, how about a homeschooling example? :D

 

Someone who is "questioning your motivations" to homeschool might suspect that you were up to no good, that maybe you really just wanted to hide your kids away from the world, doubting that you truly wanted to educate them….you just don't want to deal with teachers and buses and buying school supplies… etc etc.. They doubt that your heart is in the right place….

 

Someone who *asks what motivated you* to homeschool is honestly curious, wondering why you made that particular choice, in what ways you feel that your kids will benefit from being homeschooled, how it enriches your life, what tipped the scales that way for you… and so on….

 

Does that help show the differences that I see? Person A and Person B are coming from different places there.

[SKL]

Does that help show the differences that I see? Person A and Person B are coming from different places there.

 

LidiyaDawn, why would you ask us about international adoption when you could easily do your own research? What is your motivation in asking this question?

 

See how that sounds?

 

But seriously, I am curious to know what made you feel curious about this today.

 

(PS, I am actually glad this topic was discussed so thoroughly here today. Just wanted you to hear the tone I'm hearing when I read some of your words.)

[sassyscrapperinid]

after hearing all the things that COULD happen in domestic adoption, we chose international. I felt comfort in knowing that my dd couldn't be taken away from me. Now that we have her, I'm deeply pained, and likely will be for the rest of my life, because I know her torment because she'll never see or know her own birth mom. Since she could talk she has expressed she wanted a Chinese mother. She has never accepted me. :crying: THE DAY she was handed to me is when she started the rejection process. I feel so bad for her.

 

Oh Denise :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[LidiyaDawn]

LidiyaDawn, why would you ask us about international adoption when you could easily do your own research? What is your motivation in asking this question?

 

See how that sounds?

 

But seriously, I am curious to know what made you feel curious about this today.

 

(PS, I am actually glad this topic was discussed so thoroughly here today. Just wanted you to hear the tone I'm hearing when I read some of your words.)

 

I don't mind you asking me that at all… and actually, I don't know *where* or *how* I would just go off researching this on my own. I wouldn't even know where to start….so, I asked in a place where I thought that there would be people with experience - and there are. Many of them have shared with me (and the rest of the board) as to why they chose that route - and because of the sharing that's gone on here, I now have a lot of new information and more understanding on the topic… and I've also had some misconceptions cleared up. These all seem like good, positive things. The next time I hear about international adoption, I won't have the same questions running through my head. [also positive!]

 

I'm not a classical educator, so I might be muddling this all up (bear with me!) but isn't there something emphasized in classical education about learning directly from the source? That's sorta what has happened here in this thread… I've learned a lot, right from people who have experienced it.

 

As to what made me curious - there isn't one simple answer to that. It's a combination of things.. part of my curiosity was rooted in some of the aforementioned misconceptions, so that's changing.

 

I don't know if I'm making sense.. it's getting late and I'm overtired. again. suspect it's a permanent state now. :laugh: {we have a new little guy here}

Edited August 29, 2011 by LidiyaDawn
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[SKL]

I don't know *where* or *how* I would just go off researching this on my own. I wouldn't even know where to start….so, I asked in a place where I thought that there would be people with experience - and there are.

 

I didn't actually mean for you to answer my 1st "question," but I think it was a good idea for you to ask on this forum "what led you to international adoption?"

 

As for where to find information - I too had no idea at first. I did some google searches and came up with quite the variety of stuff - pro and con, helpful and not, accurate and not. I found a website where you could check off the agencies from whom you'd like to get more info, and they all sent me packages, but I still wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I learned of a local agency and attended an informational seminar there. Then I signed on with them. During my process, I did find an international adoption forum (structured like this one) which was extremely helpful. In fact, someone on that forum directed me to this one when I queried about homeschooling.:001_smile:

[sassyscrapperinid]

1) Egg Donor/Sperm Donor labels

 

Usually (based on my personal experience-I've not done a scientific study or anything) these terms are used in reference to birth parents that were abusive or neglectful. This would cover the birth parents of most children in the US foster care system and some international adoptees.

 

:iagree: Im so glad you said that.

 

 

Witnessing the terrible effects of RAD and other attachment issues on adopted children from all countries and circumstances, it is very tempting to have a negative view of the birth parents who did not do right by their child during pregnancy and pre-placement. Not all children suffer this way, but when they do, it's terrible for their families.

:iagree: It is terrible for their ADOPTIVE families and for the ADOPTEE as well....

 

3) RAD/Attachment Issues/damage by substances in utero

 

Adoption is no place for fantasy thinking. Reputable agencies will have classes on this and have an attachment therapist on staff or one they can refer parents to.

 

Well then I suppose the County of San Bernardino in California is NOT a reputable agency because the first time I heard the acronym RAD was about 3 years ago- and I adopted my kids 13 years ago!!! And :iagree:as far as fantasy thinking... man- they saw me coming from a mile away.

 

Children from terrible early life circumstances do have a higher risk. A close friend gave back a son they adopted through foster care because he tried to kill one of the other siblings in the home. He's so violent that he can not be placed in a home with other kids-ever. It's not his fault he was exposed to drugs in utero and in his early life, but they can't put other children's lives at risk because this kid got dealt one of the worst hands in life. He has all kinds of issues that will never be cured, and no child should have to bear the brunt of it.

Yep, I totally can relate here.... I am thankful it hasnt come to attempted murder in our situation, but two of my bio children have been sexually assaulted- and the effects for my bio children of not having the opportunity to grow up in a house with peace and security, well, thats another story.

 

I just want to say too as calmly as I can- I know my kids birth mom- very well in fact. She is my sister in law- which is a whole other thread. We are talking about a woman who decided at 15 to have as many babies as possible because it would be fun and you get free money from the state. We are talking about a woman who used abortion as a form of birth control. I have never heard of so many condoms breaking -EVER! I mean, every time she got pregnant it was because the condom broke. And Im sorry for offending all the ever so loving birth moms out there, but in my situation, my kids birth mom IS the egg donor. I have been called everything in the book by her and my in laws from a c***, a wh***, a b**** and thats just the stuff they posted on my husbands facebook a couple weeks ago. We finally had to block them. They also like to say how I "stole" the kids from her. And she has really had visitation all these years which we ofcourse have been denying her even though the adoption was finalized all those years ago with NO stipulations on it anywhere for her or any of the fathers. We have shown these docs to my in laws and my kids so they would know the truth, but the in laws and my oldest adopted child who was 12 years old when we adopted has decided we have been lying to her all these years. She was there- she knows but chooses to ignore it and believe lies! These people were not willing to help when CPS was searching for other relatives willing to adopt these kids. They were asked and they declined to take on the task because they saw a sucker ready to do it for them! These are the same people who sat back less than a year after my husband and I were married and watched as I took in these 5 little children when no one else would and yet 13 years later they still have an ax to grind?!?!? Nevermind what my family has been through!! Heck, we couldnt even get my husbands other sister to watch 2 of the 5 kids for a weekend so my husband and I could have some recovery after we were manipulated by the county to take them in. I say this because not one worker even said anything that came close to "the kids may have behavioral problems" let alone RAD! We called them to ask for help about 2 months into it because we noticed that something was not right, they sent us to a class on how to do time outs!! So, Im sorry. Im sure I will be blasted or maybe this will even be deleted as my opinion isnt the "civilized" opinion but geez! Thats almost like saying that all birth mothers get pregnant and give the child up for adoption because thats what they are "called to do". They know there are adoptive families out there so they get pregnant just to give their child away. And please do not mention surrogates because thats a whole other thing. And then they take excellent care of themselves and are model citizens instead of the cold hard fact that is that ALOT (sorry I dont have numbers here) of these women are not the ones who take excellent care of themselves and love their babies more than life itself and thats why they give their babies away. Its all out of love and that they think of their kids everyday. Yeah right. Thats not the majority of cases. I have sat back and watched my adopted kids go through hell trying to figure out why their "birth mother" shocked the heck out of everyone in the courtroom and gave them away after completing all the reunification requirements!! And she didnt give it another thought when she wound up pregnant again 2 years ago and decided to keep that child. One of my adopted kids wants to know what she did that was so horrible that her "birth mother" didnt want her. What is wrong with her that her "birth mother" can raise this new child but couldnt have cared less about her? There is nothing that she did to deserve it, but it happened none the less. Im sure they all want to know why. And then throw in all the wonderful effects of RAD on the adoptive families. Like I said, compared to someone being dead, I guess we are lucky. Not to say I havent gone to bed scared that we wouldnt make it through the night or that one or more of my bio children would be murdered in their sleep due to jealousy issues. Anyways- Im sorry this is so long, but my family and I have sacrificed SO MUCH and been through hell that to read how the birth mothers are making all the sacrifices was very hard on my eyes.

[sassyscrapperinid]

Well, since I don't believe in the bible that doesn't apply to me.

 

But I will not call someone who murders a child a "mother." Nope. Not going to happen. She was an egg donor and never one thing more to that boy.

 

:iagree:

[sassyscrapperinid]

No, the real challenge is the hard work of parenting an adoptive child. And I say that with deep love and deeply experienced truth.

 

YES!! Thank you!

[Sputterduck]

why not?

 

Just cause i live in America doesn't mean I have to only care about America. God is God of the world, not just america.

 

The suggestion that children should be adopted from this country first suggests that somehow American children are more important than the other children in the world. And, as a whole, children in this country simply are not as needy as children in other countries.

 

 

One Earth......many children w/o homes.

:iagree:

[Audrey]

Every time that I read about someone adopting from somewhere overseas, I always wonder why -- why do people go thousands and thousands of miles away, often with great risk (financially, emotionally)…dealing with potentially corrupt people (within agencies, but also within the governments of these countries)… all of the craziness that goes along with it… Why do people do that when they could easily adopt right here? There are sooooo many kids in need of homes right here in [i'm in Canada, but I know most of the board is in the USA, a few in other countries - fill in yours] ……it seems curious to me when people go through all of the hardships* to adopt from a foreign country.

 

Don't get me wrong - I think it's WONDERFUL that those kids get loving homes. I'm just wondering what it is that motivates people to go *that way* when the system is overflowing (sadly) with kids in need right here.

 

I'm asking out of genuine curiosity - not judgement for doing so (really. I'm just curious) - and wonder if anyone who has done an international adoption would care to share their reasons?

 

 

*re:hardships.. I don't mean to say that the hardships aren't "worth it" .. a child has gotten a home, a healthy & safe home.. that's always worth it.. but I think people know what I mean about it.. ?

 

 

It's not that easy for many people to adopt in Canada. Living in a rural area is a major strike against you. I can't foster kids either because of that. I can't even foster kids from rural homes. I've become acutely aware that there are no acceptable homes outside the city perimeter. :glare:

[Mom in High Heels]

I'm late to the game, but I have a sad and a good domestic adoption story.

 

After several miscarriages, dh and I were told I could never carry a child to term (technically, they were right as both Indy and Han Solo were preemies, but they made it-this story happened before they were born) so we looked into adoption. My 15 year old cousin (on my mom's side) got pregnant and wanted us to adopt her child. While the rest of the family was horrified that she was pregnant (her parents wanted to send her to a "home" until the baby was born), dh and I were ecstatic. Not only would be have a baby, but she would be related to me. We discussed things with the rest of the family that this would be OUR child and everyone was fine with it (again, they were still upset about the pregnancy). The baby was biracial. My cousin is white the father was AA. We cared not one bit (though sadly some people in my extended family did). We went to sonograms (and were there when we found out it was a girl), doctors appts, etc and shelled out a heck of a lot of money. The birth father said over and over it wasn't his child. He was 17. His mother also said this was not his child for the entire pregnancy. We were worried, but our lawyer said the courts would get it worked out and could terminate his rights immediately if he refused to acknowledge the child. Three weeks before the due date the birth father's mother (paternal grandmother) decided SHE wanted the baby that they had denied was his for the entire pregnancy. We panicked. Our lawyer went to work right away. The court appointed the grandmother an attorney right away due to the pressing time issue. Her own lawyer told her there was no way she would get custody of this child. She had 8 children of her own (only 2 shared the same father), didn't work and was on public assistance. She (the grandmother) was 36 at the time, BTW and the 17 year old wasn't her oldest child.

Our lawyer tried to keep us calm, but we were stressed to no end. The baby was born and 2 days later we were in court (again because of time sensitivity). We had not seen the baby at this point because I was afraid of how I would handle it. The father did sign the birth certificate. The judge denied the grandmother's petition for full custody. She then refused to let the father sign off on the adoption (he was still a minor) because she didn't want the baby raised by a white family. Never mind the fact that the birth mother (my cousin) was white would have to keep the baby if we didn't take her (the baby). My cousin still wanted us to take the baby, but our lawyer told us several things that made us turn her down. According to the laws of the state, we couldn't take the baby out of the state. Since we lived in another state, this was an issue, and to make it worse we were due to move back to Germany in 5 months. The only way we could legally adopt her was to wait 2 years when, if the birth father did not see her or support her financially, his parental rights would be terminated. If he ever even wanted to see her (up to the day the two years expired), the 2 years would start over. This would mean that the baby had to stay with my cousin for 2 years while we waited or I would have to live in the state for 2 years, with the baby hoping the birth father never showed up. This was not an option for us. We had to walk away. It broke our hearts. It's especially hard as I've seen her a few times over the years (she's 10 now) and I know her life would be so different if she were our child. My cousin tries to be the best mom she can, but she's 25 with a 10 year old and no college education. She struggles every day. She married a "nice" guy at 20 and had another baby at 21. A year later he beat her and the girl we were supposed to adopt. She left him of course, but was basically right back where she started. She lived with her parents who are at best, difficult and still embarrassed that their 15 year old had a baby.

 

My cousin (on my dad's side) and his wife tried to adopt for YEARS, both domestically (with many failed adoptions) and internationally. They finally got on a wait list for a baby (or a toddler) from China, but 4 years and thousands of dollars later, there was still no baby. They tried domestic again, went with a reputable adoption agency and were paired up with a birth mother 3 years later. The baby was born in a state that gave the mother 10 days from the day of the papers signing to change her mind. She (and the birth father) signed them the day the baby was born and my cousin and his wife drove to see the baby and stayed for 12 days. On the 12th day, the parent's rights were legally terminated and they brought the baby home. He just turned 2 and even though the parent's rights were terminated at the beginning it wasn't until a week after his 2nd birthday that the adoption was finalized. They had a happy ending. We did not.

 

We discussed adopting again (2 months before I got pregnant with Han Solo) and decided if we did we would never try a US adoption again. It's just too hard financially and emotionally.

[mom2att]

I have a friend in Florida who is adopting from China. She has two children already and wants to adopt a toddler. The Florida system is not setup to foster adopt and mothers aren't generally giving up todders for adoption so she has to do an international adoption. Her road isn't an easy one but due to the laws where she lives it's the only way she's going to be able to adopt a toddler..

 

 

I'm sure this is more county-based than state-based. I'm in Florida and have several friends who have adopted through the foster system successfully, including toddlers and infants.

[LidiyaDawn]

It's not that easy for many people to adopt in Canada. Living in a rural area is a major strike against you. I can't foster kids either because of that. I can't even foster kids from rural homes. I've become acutely aware that there are no acceptable homes outside the city perimeter. :glare:

 

I wonder if it's a provincial thing… because I was in foster care as a teenager out east and all but one of my foster homes were rural. The non-rural one was in a small community…it wasn't even a town. The group homes that I was later in were urban, but not the foster homes. How do they justify this where you are?

 

Granted, I hated being rural when I was -- I wanted the noise, chaos, and ease of running away that the city offered. :tongue_smilie:

 

[see why rural is BETTER? geez, did they never watch Neon Rider? :p ]

 

Do you think we have MORE kids who need adoptive homes though? Have you seen those 'Wednesday's Children' sections in newspapers where they put the kids' names and photos? I figured they wouldn't do that if there were plenty of adoptive homes to go around.

[*LC]

I guess by now you know there are a lot of different reasons to choose different adoption paths. (I love the answer that said the family adopted internationally, because that is where their kids were.)

 

Anyway, our adoption story is similar to some, but a bit different also. We adopted internationally. I had no interest in adopting an infant, because we had a number of biological children. I loved them as infants, and I didn't want to take that beautiful experience away from someone who hadn't had a chance to have a newborn. I also knew toddlers are much more fun that newborns for me personally.

 

Also, I had a premature child that had pretty significant health issues for the first year or so of life. However, none of those issues were lasting. I knew he likely wouldn't have been attractive to adoptive parents as a newborn. So, we adopted children internationally that had health histories. They had been put up for adoption as infants and were rerffered to families for adoption. However, the families backed out when the health issues arose. We came into the picture later, and the kids were two when we adopted them. Only one has any health issues today, and I'm not sure those are related or not.

 

We had been drawn to adoption from the time our oldest was one, but we wanted to have more biological children first. When our oldest was four, we seriously wanted to adopt a 4-year-old foster-child that was in preschool at our church. We were willing to adopt her and all 5 to 7 of her siblings, I don't remember the exact number it has been so long, that were in foster care also. We knew this was going to be hard. We only had 2 preschoolers at the time, so I know we didn't really have a clue how hard it would have been. I do know we would have done it, and we had talked to the girl's foster mom, who wasn't in a poistion to adopt. However, the kids were unexpectedly sent back to their birth mom. We knew the president of the foster parents association in our county, and she told us straight fostering wasn't for us. She had fostered and foster-to-adopt for years, so I took her opinion seriously.

 

Our plan was to adopt a teen once the kids got much older. Life changed a lot, so I'm not sure that is still the plan, but all the kids aren't older yet. Time will tell.

[Rivka]

We considered adopting domestically and while we were in the process of making that decision, my husband's dear friend was called to the hospital because a mother was giving birth to his (and his wife's) new baby. They witnessed the birth (after paying all of her medical bills), they held the baby (even before the bio mom) and they went home that night full of joy over finally having a baby in the home. The next day they went back to the hospital to take the baby home and the bio said "No."

 

Unless you're talking about gestational surrogacy, then no. She wasn't giving birth to "his and his wife's new baby," she was giving birth to her new baby. And she wasn't the "bio mom," she was the mom.

 

The degree to which some people feel entitled to other people's children astounds and appalls me. And I say this as the wife, sister, and aunt of adoptees.