So what is the most effective way to correct DC, other than spanking?

[Ewe Mama]

I have been reading with great interest all the posts about parenting and disciplining, spanking v. not spanking. I have 5dc between the ages of 4 and 8. With all of their various personalities (eldest would rather die than do anything wrong, and on the other end of the spectrum we have a very defiant 4 year old), I have a difficult time finding a parenting style for all of us to muddle through.

 

I have read so many parenting books that I am more confused than ever. (if you ever need a parenting book, pm me...I have just about every one ever written. :lol:)

 

Time outs do not work for us. Time out turns into time out for the offender and me, since I have to make sure the offender doesn't try a "jail break" to get out of time out. That leaves the other four dc doing heaven only knows what and then I end up doling out more time outs. We'd never accomplish any school work.

 

I admit that I have spanked. I don't find it to be useful or effective. It may stop the immediate behavior, but it seems to make my dc angry and resentful, which is not what I am looking for. :glare:

 

I love the idea of Parenting with Love and Logic-type scenarios, but I honestly don't think that fast on my feet. I feel like the Coyote trying to outsmart the Roadrunner most of the time. :tongue_smilie: I just saw a brief tv clip about the mom who used hot sauce as a punishment for her son lying. The "experts" are all crying "abuse!" I thought that it sounded like a Foster and Cline kind of a response, even though it came from Lisa Welchel's book.

 

Consequences are great except for the fact that I can never remember which child has what consequence going on at the moment. DH can't remember either, so he usually dishes out things like, "You are not allowed to play on the computer for the next 3 weeks, 4 days, and 14 minutes!" Of course that doesn't happen!

 

On the whole, our children are well-behaved, respectful, and fun to be around (at least when we are in public). Everyone tells us we have great kids, but there's definitely room for improvement, especially within sibling relationships.

 

So my question comes down to this, what really works for a mom who is pulling her hair out, trying to raise her children in a loving, responsible manner without being permissive of their inappropriate behavior?

 

Sorry about the long post!

[Slartibartfast]

Consistency is pretty important IMO. Maybe you could get a wipe board for the fridge?

[LibraryLover]

For me it was helpful to decide what was most important. Not everything is. I can't be correcting every minor interaction or behavior. Figure out what matters most and concentrate on that.

 

Even the Duggar children roll down the stairs, bounce on beds etc. Some things are normal kid behaviors and don't matter to some people.

 

Pick your battles, basically. ;)

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I'm pretty much still trying to figure out my 2, so take this with a grain of salt.

 

What does work right now;

 

1- Consistent routines including planned and on time meals.

 

2- Very, extremely, beyond consistent bedtimes 7 days per week!

 

3- Lots and lots and lots of trouble free playtime. For my son this means that lately we have been going to a field. He beings a few toys and has a blast. He can throw rocks, dig a little, run, scream, etc. There is rarely anyone there to restrict his time.

 

I got and went through the Total Transformation Program. It was pretty useless for us. One thing that did stick for me - Learn to parent the child you have, and stop parenting the child you wish you had. For me, this meant what I wrote above. I have to stop trying to change my son and work with him. When he gets aggressive, he *needs* me to physically restrain him. I no longer consider it progress to reduce the restraining. He needs it for his safety, for sensory needs, and because he's just too young to think when that frustrated.

[Orthodox6]

Just like homeschooling philosophies: Whatever works for a particular child becomes that which works.

 

(I'm excluding what I fully agree are abusive measures.)

 

I bought a variety of parenting books when the dc were younger. Owing to crippling ADHD, I never read them. Everyone has grown up into fine teens and young adults on whom people frequently comment favorably.

[simka2]

I like to use these with my olders. I used to have one they could draw the scenario with the youngers.

 

http://specialed.about.com/od/behavioremotional/ss/think.htm

[Renee in NC]

For me it was helpful to decide what was most important. Not everything is. I can't be correcting every minor interaction or behavior. Figure out what matters most and concentrate on that.

 

Even the Duggar children roll down the stairs, bounce on beds etc. Some things are normal kid behaviors and don't matter to some people.

 

Pick your battles, basically. ;)

 

Did you know that the Duggars don't spank either? I have a whole different view of them now that I have read their two books. What most people attach to them online is not true at all. The last thread here on WTM about the Duggars had me look into them more - I am very glad that I did.

 

I personally LOVE their parenting style!

 

Anyway, back to your topic at hand....:tongue_smilie:

[Parrothead]

Honestly I think it depends on the child. Some kids will respond well to redirection, some need loss of privileges, some still need other things.

 

I do think early training is very important.

[Slartibartfast]

I think it is also important to be mindful of diet. One cannot give their kid 14 red Popsicles and then expect them to sit quietly and diagram sentences.

 

They need a balanced diet. Also, once needs to note if their kids are eating normally but still acting like a crackhead all the time one might want to consider trying to eliminate whatever they think might be a trigger.

 

Anxiety can be a sign of possible dairy issues, being overly hyper can involve dyes...etc things like that.

 

If that doesn't work one needs to discuss it with the Dr. My dd was having pica cause she had an iron deficiency. All sorts of things can effect behavior, not just being "bad."

Edited August 19, 2011 by Sis

[LibraryLover]

Did you know that the Duggars don't spank either? I have a whole different view of them now that I have read their two books. What most people attach to them online is not true at all. The last thread here on WTM about the Duggars had me look into them more - I am very glad that I did.

 

I personally LOVE their parenting style!

 

Anyway, back to your topic at hand....:tongue_smilie:

 

 

I'll admit it. I love those kids. They look like the happiest kids on the block. Playing ping pong in the house, in the front hall? Flying through and between trees on zip lines? Driving the steroid golf cart? How many of those behaviors would have some folks pulling their hair out, thinking they are raising monsters? The mess when they eat? Little kids plopping food on their plates? OMG LOL The Duggars just la de da go about their day, surrounded by running, laughing little kids sliding down the stairs. ;) And yet...there they are, stopping long enough for family bible reading and sitting in church listening to kids in other families play violin. ;)

 

Even after eating tator tot casserole. LOL

Edited August 19, 2011 by LibraryLover

[justamouse]

Well, first you need to have the moment where you realize that this is going to take some invested time, and be willing to put other things to the side.

 

First, are you doing everything that you, as a parent, need to do to PREVENT the behavior? Are you actively engaged with them, (apart from some mommy time) or are you just trying to get it all done so YOU can do what you want to do?

 

Slow down. Be present in the moments, with them, and slow down. That way, when something comes up, and you have to deal with it, you can deal with it FULLY instead of racing through it so you can 'get back on track'. This house, these kids, are my job. Nothing more important is going on that I have to rush through it to get to something better.

 

Now, I know that I am lucky to be able to stay home like this, but even MORESO, because of that, do they deserve my full attention when they need/require it.

 

twoforjoy recently started a thread about just this. I posted some of the ways I parent in there.

[gardenmom5]

I have been reading with great interest all the posts about parenting and disciplining, spanking v. not spanking. I have 5dc between the ages of 4 and 8. With all of their various personalities (eldest would rather die than do anything wrong, and on the other end of the spectrum we have a very defiant 4 year old), I have a difficult time finding a parenting style for all of us to muddle through.

 

Time outs do not work for us. Time out turns into time out for the offender and me,

Consequences are great except for the fact that I can never remember which child has what consequence going on at the moment. DH can't remember either, so he usually dishes out things like, "You are not allowed to play on the computer for the next 3 weeks, 4 days, and 14 minutes!" Of course that doesn't happen!

 

On the whole, our children are well-behaved, respectful, and fun to be around (at least when we are in public). Everyone tells us we have great kids, but there's definitely room for improvement, especially within sibling relationships.

 

I have five kids - four adults, and one SPD probable ASD. they've also ranged the gamut from easy to requiring me to be creative. every child is different, and what works varies, even with the same child.

 

consistancey is key - if you have to write it down, write it down - kids need to know you mean it about rules, they need to thoroughly understand what the rules/expectations are (and just because one "get's it" easily, doens't mean the next one does. some need more blunt explanations.) and that you will follow through. it tells them you love them enough to bother. inconsistency actually creates insecurity because they don't know where they (or you) stand and it gets you ignored.

 

how you come across is very important - i.e. FIRM, not wishy-washy. (that invites arguing) I do not argue with kids when they are being disciplined. I made my statement, they had to deal with the consequences. (I have negotiated when presented with a REALLY good arguement. I wanted to encourage negotiations, as it is a skill that will serve well in the work world.)

 

for kids who repeatedly got off the bench, the timer was reset back to zero. I did NOT talk to them when they were on the bench - this is not mom time, this is time-out. If I had to pick them up and put them back, I did and the only words out of my mouth were "stay on the bench until the buzzer goes off." As they got older, methods changed and were more appropriate to developmental stage. Eight is getting to where they can understand more abstract concepts, and losing a favorite privledge/ etc.

 

kids will do things just to get attention - like they say in hollywood, bad Press is still press. are they getting attention for doing things right? I always found when my kids were going through a 'rough phase' I needed to focus on making sure they were getting recognition for what they were doing right. If they were getting enough positive attention, they were much less likely to break rules. Positive attention should be given for things within the child's power to reproduce. e.g. "you're smart" is not reproduceable, for starters it's way to vague. - "you worked really hard on that paper until you finished it" - tells them exactly what they can do to get more positive attention.

 

oh, my comment on sibling relationships - I was reared in a family where we had to compete for love, approbation, and attention. that is the WORST thing a parent can do for sibling relationships. NEVER do things to make your kids compete against each other for your attention or anything else, never compare them to each other (for good or ill), etc. they are each unique, you love and enjoy them all according to who they are, and they are then free to learn to enjoy each other. My greatest joy has been watching my adult children interact. they have fun together, talk to each other, support each other, and love each other. (and they all dote on little one) a LONG way from how I was reared.

Edited August 19, 2011 by gardenmom5

[Momof3littles]

GOYB parenting :D I started reading GCM a few years ago when my oldest was a baby and that was tremendously helpful, along with many of the book recommendations there. GOYB is a great site too ;)

 

Playful parenting. It takes energy and it can be really tough at times, but when it works, it works. It can shift the whole mood in the house. Instead of spiraling into progressively more poor behavior/consequences, etc. it often gets us back on track. I absolutely love Playful Parenting (the book) and have found it so useful at so many stages. It is fun to gain their cooperation playfully.

 

Teaching, redirecting, rehearsing, practicing. Working on things when little people are not in full out meltdown mode and it is too late for the teaching moment. Giving responsibility that leads to true self-esteem vs. external praise.

 

Remembering that people who don't feel well don't act well. Being mindful that a child who is quite hungry, tired, thirsty, overstimulated, etc. is going to be tough to reason with. Fixing the cause behind the behavior makes a big difference. For us, many times there's no fixing the behavior until we get to the underlying issue (kids have low blood sugar and need a snack or a meal. Kids are overtired and miserable, and need a nap/bedtime). My two older kids' arguments usually stem from boredom. When mom is busy with something else and they are hungry and bored, they start fighting. When my DD is overly tired, nothing else works other than getting her to bed. She's back to normal the next morning, kwim? Make sure their cup is filled up. When things with one of my kids seem to go on in a negative direction for a while, it is time to backtrack and make sure their cup is filled up. We need to reconnect and kind of start over. When we work on healing the relationship, many times the behavior kind of follows.

 

Remembering that tantrums are an immature expression of big feelings.

 

Most of this is from GCM, GOYB parenting, etc. and things I've picked up from there over the years.

 

Now if only I could get to the point where this is automatic, but it is has been an ongoing process for years.

[justamouse]

GOYB parenting :D I started reading GCM a few years ago when my oldest was a baby and that was tremendously helpful, along with many of the book recommendations there. GOYB is a great site too ;)

 

Playful parenting. It takes energy and it can be really tough at times, but when it works, it works. It can shift the whole mood in the house. Instead of spiraling into progressively more poor behavior/consequences, etc. it often gets us back on track. I absolutely love Playful Parenting (the book) and have found it so useful at so many stages. It is fun to gain their cooperation playfully.

 

Teaching, redirecting, rehearsing, practicing. Working on things when little people are not in full out meltdown mode and it is too late for the teaching moment. Giving responsibility that leads to true self-esteem vs. external praise.

 

Remembering that people who don't feel well don't act well. Being mindful that a child who is quite hungry, tired, thirsty, overstimulated, etc. is going to be tough to reason with. Fixing the cause behind the behavior makes a big difference. For us, many times there's no fixing the behavior until we get to the underlying issue (kids have low blood sugar and need a snack or a meal. Kids are overtired and miserable, and need a nap/bedtime). My two older kids' arguments usually stem from boredom. When mom is busy with something else and they are hungry and bored, they start fighting. When my DD is overly tired, nothing else works other than getting her to bed. She's back to normal the next morning, kwim? Make sure their cup is filled up. When things with one of my kids seem to go on in a negative direction for a while, it is time to backtrack and make sure their cup is filled up. We need to reconnect and kind of start over. When we work on healing the relationship, many times the behavior kind of follows.

 

Remembering that tantrums are an immature expression of big feelings.

 

Most of this is from GCM, GOYB parenting, etc. and things I've picked up from there over the years.

 

Now if only I could get to the point where this is automatic, but it is has been an ongoing process for years.

 

what is GCM?

[Momof3littles]

what is GCM?

 

Gentle Christian Mothers. There is a gentle discipline board there that has been so helpful to me through the last 7.5 years of parenting.

[justamouse]

Gentle Christian Mothers. There is a gentle discipline board there that has been so helpful to me through the last 7.5 years of parenting.

 

Wow, that's awesome.

[Haiku]

I love the idea of Parenting with Love and Logic-type scenarios, but I honestly don't think that fast on my feet.

 

You don't have to think fast on your feet. I often separate my kids when they are causing trouble for me/each other and tell them I need some time to think things through.

 

So my question comes down to this, what really works for a mom who is pulling her hair out, trying to raise her children in a loving, responsible manner without being permissive of their inappropriate behavior?

 

IMO, consistency and a focus on the positive. We've had a stressful summer here due to money worries and dh working two jobs/ridiculous hours. I found myself sliding into focusing on the negative of their behavior. Things go downhill right quick when that happens. I don't (or try not to) respond to every bad/inappropriate thing that happens. I just try to set the tone of "We're all expected to behave ourselves and be nice," and I focus my attention on that.

 

And when something bad/inappropriate does happen, I tell my kids that privileges are suspended until they correct the problem.

 

If kids are constantly having to be disciplined, the discipline is not working. If they need occasional disciplining, you're doing well. IMO.

 

Tara

[Ewe Mama]

Thanks for all the replies! Keep them coming, please!

 

We are very routine-oriented. Meal times, bed time, chore time, school time, and (most importantly) play time are all planned for in our day. We get done with school by lunch time, do a few chores and then the remainder of the free time is for us to do fun things.

 

I am a SAHM, not obsessed with house-keeping, or the computer. We only do educational videos infrequently. We have 3 acres in the country and the children love to run and explore, look for bugs, play with the chickens and sheep, etc. We raise some of our own food and try to be mindful of our diets. There's always room for improvement in that area, though!

 

I am not a "helicopter" parent. I allow my children freedom to explore (in a safe environment). I am "involved" and present with them and for them. If they want to dance, we dance. If they want to cuddle up and read, we read. If we want to bake cookies, we bake cookies. If Mommy needs a break, they either play inside or outside.

 

That being said, I am much better at one on one interactions with them. I'm not a "party" person and sometimes it feels like one huge party is going most of the afternoon. The dc start losing their individual personalities to me and I start responding to them as though they we are flock, rather than individuals. Maybe I've been raising sheep too long. :glare:

 

I have one of the Duggar's books and have enjoyed it. We don't have cable, so I've never seen the show, but from what I have read, I admire their ability to parent so many children so gracefully.

 

 

I like to use these with my olders. I used to have one they could draw the scenario with the youngers.

 

http://specialed.about.com/od/behavi...l/ss/think.htm

 

Simka, I really like these sheets. I think they will be useful for the two eldest.

 

We have a behavior chart, with rewards for good behavior, but the children mainly shrug their shoulders and blow it off.

 

I truly appreciate your ideas and insight. I want my dc to look back on their childhoods with good memories and love. I hope that I can be the kind of parent that every child deserves to have. Our ultimate goal is for our dc to be responsible, caring adults who can take care of themselves and their own families some day (without needing to undergo many years of therapy). :lol:

[Pamela H in Texas]

Obviously the top things are:

 

1) environment - safe, healthy, diet, proper sensory-wise, exercise, etc.

 

2) consistency - whether you are hitting them, redirecting them, or whatever, doing so consistently makes the difference in whether it really makes a behavioral difference.

 

3) this thread has mentioned a lot of "teaching-based" discipline. This is important. You want kids to learn life skills they can use now and in the future. You want them to be able to deal with real life consequences.

 

4) But most important is the relationship you build with them and help them learn to build with others. If they are treated out of love rather than fear, they will treat others out of love rather than fear. If they are taught true respect, kindness, gentleness, mildness, etc then that is what they will exude. People make better decisions if they are enveloped in security, peace, and love. They revert to earlier developmental periods when stressed. A stressed person is not a learning person. A calmer person can calm a stressed one so they can work out relationships and learn.

 

I'm really stressing this last one. I have always focused on #1-3 which I still believe is very important. But I think if you focus on #4, #1-3 will be so much easier.

[SailorMom]

I was (and am) a "let the punishment fit the crime" person. It made sense to everyone. We occasionally spanked (for dangerous behavior) from about 2 to 7 years old - but that was a last resort sort of punishment and it did work for my sons.

We also used time outs, and they were effective about 1/2 the time, and were useful where there was no real logical consequence for their actions.

For everything else - logical/natural consequences and 100% consistent follow-through worked the best.

For example:

You spill milk on the rug when you were told not to bring your drink in the living room = you clean the rug.

You take your brother's toy in a mean way = he gets to take a toy of his chosing from you

Do a bad job on the dishes = you get to do the dishes instead of brother and have to do them perfectly before you are let off

So on and so forth.

We are also usually very calm when we explain what the action was (if they don't already know) and what the consequence is.

We ask them to explain to us why they are in trouble and why the punishment they are recieving is appropriate.

[ktgrok]

Did you know that the Duggars don't spank either? I have a whole different view of them now that I have read their two books. What most people attach to them online is not true at all. The last thread here on WTM about the Duggars had me look into them more - I am very glad that I did.

 

I personally LOVE their parenting style!

 

Anyway, back to your topic at hand....:tongue_smilie:

 

SOOOOOOOOOOO glad to hear that!!! I'm going to ask for their books I think, for Christmas. I was afraid to find out, lol. I will say I had a LOT of misonceptions about them. I thought Michelle purposely weaned her kids early to get pregnant again. That turned out to be horribly untrue, and a vicious lie at that. She gets her fertility back quickly, and was very upset to have to wean when her supply dries up. Totally not what the family haters say on the interwebs, lol.

 

Now, I do think their idea of nutrition wouldn't work for my household...tater tot casserole would send me into a carb coma. But everything else seems great!

[Ginevra]

oh, my comment on sibling relationships - I was reared in a family where we had to compete for love, approbation, and attention. that is the WORST thing a parent can do for sibling relationships. NEVER do things to make your kids compete against each other for your attention or anything else, never compare them to each other (for good or ill), etc. they are each unique, you love and enjoy them all according to who they are, and they are then free to learn to enjoy each other. My greatest joy has been watching my adult children interact. they have fun together, talk to each other, support each other, and love each other. (and they all dote on little one) a LONG way from how I was reared.

 

:iagree: I agree with the other things you wrote, too, but this especially. I was the lowest-maintenance between myself and the other four siblings and I felt neglected. I think my folks interpreted me as "no news is good news" and since I wasn't failing a class or getting in trouble with a boy, there was not much interaction with me, especially in my teen years.

 

I think the most important facet of parenting is to care for the relationship. You nurture the relationships both individually and as a family unit. My parents did not do this much with any of us and IMO, it was a major error. I forgive it and all - moving on, but when you know better, you do better, so I am doing better and differently with my kids.

[justamouse]

I'll admit it. I love those kids. They look like the happiest kids on the block. Playing ping pong in the house, in the front hall? Flying through and between trees on zip lines? Driving the steroid golf cart? How many of those behaviors would have some folks pulling their hair out, thinking they are raising monsters? The mess when they eat? Little kids plopping food on their plates? OMG LOL The Duggars just la de da go about their day, surrounded by running, laughing little kids sliding down the stairs. ;) And yet...there they are, stopping long enough for family bible reading and sitting in church listening to kids in other families play violin. ;)

 

Even after eating tator tot casserole. LOL

:iagree:

 

Their kids are KIDS.

[rlugbill]

Try to catch them doing things right and compliment them on good behavior- then you will see more good behavior. Teach good behavior as a subject, just like you teach other subjects.

 

You don't wait and teach math when your child makes an error in counting. You teach it to them ahead of time, so they know how to count.

 

It's not all about just how to repond to a particular situation. Be proactive, not just reactive.

 

Some kids prefer the negative discipline to being ignored. For them, it is better to act out because then someone pays attention to them. Don't get caught in this trap.

 

For time-outs, if my dd doesn't immediately go to the time out, I start counting up. First, I say 5 minutes time-out. If she delays going to her room, I say 6 minutes. If she argues or says something back, I say 7 minutes. And I just keep going up, if she continues. So, she gets the idea that just doing it is better than talking back.

 

Time-outs are good because then, they aren't getting the attention, and they get a chance to cool down.

 

Misbehavior has various causes. If you can eliminate the causes, you will have less misbehavior, but this doesn't excuse misbehavior. Make sure your children eat well, and sleep well. Excessive time with peers or media can also cause misbehavior. Lack of impulse control and self-discipline can cause misbehavior. Conflict in the home can also be a cause. And being in a social group that supports or condones bad behavior is also a problem.

 

That's why grounding is sometimes helpful. It lowers the amount of peer influence as well as punishes. Punishment should not be excessive though. Frequent, smaller punishments work better than fewer but more severe ones.

 

Many children just have poor impulse control. They don't think before they act. That isn't an excuse either, but it is something you can work on. Actively teach them impulse control and model it by doing it yourself.

 

Ultimately, children need to learn self-discipline, not just conform to the rules. Try to help them learn to control themselves, not just act on impulse or without thinking things through carefully. Help them learn decision-making.

 

I don't agree with spanking or corporal punishment. Yes, it works in the short-term, but not long-term. In the long-term, it teaches all the wrong lessons. It teaches that might makes right. It teaches children that violence is ok. And it teaches children that it's ok for other people to violate their bodies and to harm them.

[Lovin Learnin]

For me it's all about expectations.

 

I expect young children to need to move, so I allow them plenty of time and space to do so and I don't freak out when they get antsy.

 

I expect children and teens to try to test their boundaries. Some test more than others but again, I just don't see it as a flaw. It's all a part of growing into an adult and learning what is and what isn't acceptable in our home or in society. In my experience correction is almost always enough.

 

I expect my children will argue with each other. Yes it can be annoying and I don't allow it to get ugly or go on forever but I see it as a safe place to practice their debating and negotiation skills. The one thing I hear consistently about each of them is how polite they are (when away from home) and how well they negotiate in difficult situations with their peers.

 

I also expect each of them to accept the rules of the land, our house or any particular situation as it is. You don't have to like it but you have to abide by it. Yet I'm willing to take into consideration their point of view at any time.

 

My middle child is governed by rules. If he believes it is a rule of some sort he will live by it. Not always the best way of looking at things because he's pretty inflexible about it but it's how he's wired. My other two work more on emotions and would sooner die than to think they have disappointed my dh and I, or anyone else for that matter. They think about their actions as to how it may affect someone else. I can live with that.

 

The simple expectation that a child will do right can be very powerful.

[myfunnybunch]

When my boys were 3-5-7 and 4-6-8, I despaired that I was raising horrible children. I was exhausted. I felt like I was constantly redirecting, teaching, disciplining, implementing consequences.

 

Now they are 6-8-10. They still have their moments, but wow! Two years has made a difference.

 

I cannot control or change another person's behavior directly. Ever, even with my own children, at least not without physically forcing them to my will. I can change and control my own behavior so that they are most likely to respond in ways that I would like them to respond. So I focus on my own goals and behaviors.

 

With that in mind, I sat down and prioritized my discipline goals:

 

Relationship. My children must trust that I love them, that I want what's best for them, and that I am a knowledgeable authority over them. By authority, I don't mean "Jump when I say 'Jump!' " I mean I have the experience and maturity to make good loving decisions about our lives.

 

Consistency. Humans do better when we know what to expect.

 

Modeling. I try to be, to the best of my ability, the kind of person I want them to be. I also try to let them know the qualities I admire in them and in the people around them that are worthy of emulation. And I talk openly about the areas in which I struggle (patience, dealing with frustration, for example). I give myself do-overs too, just as I might ask them to re-do an interaction in a more healthy way.

 

Responsibility. I try to treat them as capable responsible individuals. This means accountability for their actions, and it also means allowing them to be part of decsions that impact them.

 

If I focus on these broad priorities, the details mostly fall into place. When I lose my focus on those four things, it starts to show. Your post is a good reminder, as a matter-of-fact. :) It's been a busy summer, and I think we need to set aside a couple days to just play and work together at home to keep the relationship aspect in place.

 

Cat

[Imprimis]

Try to catch them doing things right and compliment them on good behavior- then you will see more good behavior. Teach good behavior as a subject, just like you teach other subjects.

 

You don't wait and teach math when your child makes an error in counting. You teach it to them ahead of time, so they know how to count.

 

It's not all about just how to repond to a particular situation. Be proactive, not just reactive.

 

Some kids prefer the negative discipline to being ignored. For them, it is better to act out because then someone pays attention to them. Don't get caught in this trap.

 

For time-outs, if my dd doesn't immediately go to the time out, I start counting up. First, I say 5 minutes time-out. If she delays going to her room, I say 6 minutes. If she argues or says something back, I say 7 minutes. And I just keep going up, if she continues. So, she gets the idea that just doing it is better than talking back.

 

Time-outs are good because then, they aren't getting the attention, and they get a chance to cool down.

 

Misbehavior has various causes. If you can eliminate the causes, you will have less misbehavior, but this doesn't excuse misbehavior. Make sure your children eat well, and sleep well. Excessive time with peers or media can also cause misbehavior. Lack of impulse control and self-discipline can cause misbehavior. Conflict in the home can also be a cause. And being in a social group that supports or condones bad behavior is also a problem.

 

That's why grounding is sometimes helpful. It lowers the amount of peer influence as well as punishes. Punishment should not be excessive though. Frequent, smaller punishments work better than fewer but more severe ones.

 

Many children just have poor impulse control. They don't think before they act. That isn't an excuse either, but it is something you can work on. Actively teach them impulse control and model it by doing it yourself.

 

Ultimately, children need to learn self-discipline, not just conform to the rules. Try to help them learn to control themselves, not just act on impulse or without thinking things through carefully. Help them learn decision-making.

 

I don't agree with spanking or corporal punishment. Yes, it works in the short-term, but not long-term. In the long-term, it teaches all the wrong lessons. It teaches that might makes right. It teaches children that violence is ok. And it teaches children that it's ok for other people to violate their bodies and to harm them.

 

Excellent post. Thank you!

[myfunnybunch]

The simple expectation that a child will do right can be very powerful.

 

Yes. I love this. I am putting this on my fridge for today's reminder.

 

Cat

[Farrar]

For me it was helpful to decide what was most important. Not everything is. I can't be correcting every minor interaction or behavior. Figure out what matters most and concentrate on that.

 

Even the Duggar children roll down the stairs, bounce on beds etc. Some things are normal kid behaviors and don't matter to some people.

 

Pick your battles, basically. ;)

 

:iagree: With your other post too.

 

What makes me craziest is parents who seem to be trying to change every single thing about their kids. It just leads to a constant barrage of "NO!" that the kids tune out.

 

For in the moment, we tend to be big on reparations. If you did something to upset someone, you have to say sorry or do something for them. In a more long term way, we do things with logical consequences. But I don't find myself constantly having to remember things because I only use that sort of thing when it's really important. I only stop to correct behavior when it's really non-negotiable.

 

For things like politeness, learning to be quiet when needed, speak up when needed, behave like a civilized person and all that, we rely on pointing out positive behavior and talking about things generally. My kids aren't the best at noticing others' needs and so forth or figuring out where it's okay to be rambunctious and where it's not, so we're working on this a little more now, but when I tell them no, they really listen and stop something like 95% of the time, because I'm not constantly saying it.

[WeeBeaks]

It depends on the age of the kid and the temperment of the kid honestly.

 

:grouphug: I've been there too.

 

I scout the parenting section at the library for new books and ideas each time. I've read them all. My oldest is a tough one. Nothing "the experts" said would work did work. I felt like such a failure. Then #2 and #3 came along. The book advice then worked perfectly, like a charm. If they had been born first, I would have felt like a very successful parent. :lol:

 

Is your child ADHD by any chance or some other work of neurological disorder? My oldest is, and he definitely is different in his responses to typical parenting. He requires new and improved rewards frequently (not necessarily bigger but different). Positive rewards work pretty well for him (and the others), but I have to be on the top of my game with him every.single.day. He likes to test the rules every single day of his so far 9 years. And probably always will.

[2squared]

4) But most important is the relationship you build with them and help them learn to build with others.

 

:iagree: We focus on tying heartstrings between parents and children and between the siblings. We set the tone in our family, and I see the tone reflected back at me. This takes a lot of together time which can certainly drive me crazy! I am an introvert in a larger family of little kids. Yikes!!

 

My kids are far from perfect, but I know we are successful when I sit back and really watch them.

[Imprimis]

For me it was helpful to decide what was most important. Not everything is. I can't be correcting every minor interaction or behavior. Figure out what matters most and concentrate on that.

 

Even the Duggar children roll down the stairs, bounce on beds etc. Some things are normal kid behaviors and don't matter to some people.

 

Pick your battles, basically. ;)

 

Yes.

 

I don't want to micro-manage my kids. I want them to learn to think for themselves. I keep in mind the fact that all kids develop at their own pace---not just physically, but emotionally and mentally, as well.

 

I strive to set good examples and give gentle guidance, but, to me, it's also important to realize kids are not mini adults. I feel it's unrealistic to expect adult-like behavior from a 6 year old. They're still learning. And, they're still kids.

[Abigail4476]

I'm really enjoying this thread. What a breath of fresh air, after the depressing parenting threads. :001_smile:

[KungFuPanda]

Nanny 911 is streaming on Netflix if that helps. Sometimes small, painless changes can make a big difference . . . things like not yelling commands from across the room, but getting eye-level with the child to talk.

[Whereneverever]

All of my kids have really different personalities and needs. One of them is really tough, one is really easy, and the other is in between most of the time.

 

We focus on relationships and mutual affection. And realistic expectations.

 

I don't expect infinite self control out of kids- it's hard for adults to always control their emotions so it always surprises me when people expect their kids to never misbehave or tantrum.

 

I also spend intentional time with one of my kids practicing appropriate ways to act and handle situations. It takes time and repeated effort, but the payoff is awesome.

 

If you belong to a faith community I also think that practicing and talking a lot about that faith can help- for us a biggie is the idea of forgiveness and grace. That as greatly forgiven people it is my job to forgive my kids and help them to forgive each other- and to show grace.

[momofede]

Consistency is the key...and every child is different...what works well with 1, may not be effective on another...just a matter of trial/error to see what seems to have the most impact

[kalanamak]

Consistency

[matermagistra]

I have really found Nicholeen Peck's book and website to be very helpful. Her book is A House United: Changing Children's Hearts and Behaviors by Teaching Self-Government.

 

Nicholeen has four children, but she has fostered many, many more than that. She claims to have gotten most of her methods and techniques from the Utah Youth Village. I know nothing about that organization other than the fact that they facilitate foster care, but being foster care spanking and the like are not allowed.

 

I think she has a really great grasp of using alternative methods for not only discipline, but training. She is really big on using reasoning skills to get the children to see for themselves the impact of their choices. She also really focuses on the principle of cause and effect.

 

One particular device that I think is the bomb is SODAS:

 

Situation, Options, Disadvantages, Advantages, Solution

 

This is meant to get the child to think through various situations and to reason on their own what a better choice would be. Instead of getting a lecture or being yelled at or whatever else, they are taught to think it through on their own.

 

Here is the example in her book:

 

Situation: You are at the store with the family shopping for new clothes for your sister, and you become bored.

 

Options: 1. Stay with the family

2. Whine because I'm not having fun

3. Walk off by myself

 

Disadvantages: 1a. I might still be bored

1b. I won't get to see the stuff I want to

1c. I have to listen to girl stuff

2a. I will get criticism from my mom

2b. I will get myself in an even worse mood

2c. It might take longer to get done shopping

3a. I could get lost

3b. I would get criticism and consequences when found

3c. If I get lost, we might end up at the store even longer

 

Advantages: 1a. No one gets worried or upset

1b. I don't have to talk with anyone about bad behavior

1c. Maybe we could look for something for me too

2a. We could leave sooner, because mom will get tired of me

2b. My opinions would be heard

2c. None

3a. I get time alone to see stuff for me

3b. Mom knows how I feel

3c. None

 

Solution: I choose to stay with my family.

 

She says that when her son was 7, they went shopping in a large store for clothes for his sister. Her son was grumpy and complaining because he didn't want to be there. Then he walked off on his own without asking her. The whole store went looking for him and he was found. At that moment she knew she was not in the proper frame of mind to teach him about appropriate behaviors, so they went through this exercise when they got home.

 

The cool thing about this particular device is that you can use it to train-which is the same principle that is advocated by the Pearls, but without the rod or constant threat of the rod. By training I mean taking certain situations that could come up and having your child do this exercise.

 

Anyway, this is just one particular practical tool that she suggests. Obviously, you can't do that with an infant, or a toddler, though you could talk through some situations even with a toddler.

 

Here is a favorite quote taken from her book that I especially love:

 

Your spouse and children are not just people, they are eternal beings with spirits. What we do in our homes is so much more important than just parenting. We are given charge over an eternal soul. When we interact with our child, we are talking and communicating to a spiritual being.

 

Nicholeen and her husband Spencer were featured on the show, The World's Strictest Parents. I believe they have the episode on which they were featured on their website. It will bring you to tears. They had two different teenagers from broken homes who came to them in a very rebellious, very scared, very angry and hurt emotional state. I felt that the way they handled them was superb.

 

http://www.teachingselfgovernment.com

 

I'd welcome any book recommendations from others as well.

Edited August 20, 2011 by matermagistra

[JeneralMom]

I am working really hard on creating a "Yes" environment. Example: rather than saying "clean your room now or we are not going out to dinner", I am trying to say "Yes, we can go to dinner but only after your room is clean. If your take too long, we will not be able to go. Do you need me to keep you company while you clean?"

 

Natural consequences. I mentioned this in the spanking thread. I let my kid fall off the bench so he learns that benches are not for running. He was not hurt and he never got back on the bench.

 

Consistency. If the kids know what is expected of them, and why (and what the consequence for disobedience will be) they are more likely to do the right thing.

 

Realizing age appropriate behaviours. I do not expect my 2yo to clean a room, but she can help me by taking clothes and putting them in the laundry basket.

[Peela]

Its so tempting to look for a recipe, but it is going to be unique for each child and each family. There is no one way that works- lots of ways work- some of the time!

 

I agree that building relationship is foundational. If a child is getting angry and bitter from the consequences, and pulling away- I would say whatever is being used isn't working, or at least the cost is too high.

 

One thing we always tried to do, especially when they were young, is make consequences immediate. There was never any hangover till later in the day, or tomorrow, or denial of social events later in the week. It was whatever we thought of at the time, and then it was finished, as much as possible. That was we could all go back to being loving with each other within a short time. I really think that helps with forgiveness- if you have to hang onto punishing a child for a few days because you set it up that way...I could just never do it.

 

Also, we allowed a lot of emotional expression. So if a kid was angry, we didnt punish for them being angry- we would try and find a better way for them to express it. Sometimes that did mean putting our rather furious young man into the bedroom to scream till it was all out of him and he calmed down. But overall, we often looked for ways for them to vent, to get out what was going on under the surface. Sometimes it has meant really listening because the anger, resentment, and attacks on siblings came form not feeing understood. It didn't mean they were reasonable- it just meant they needed to be heard.

 

And yes, pick your battles.

 

Mostly we used time outs, telling off, and withdrawal of privileges like having to get off the computer. Mostly just setting a boundary and stating it firmly- but being willing to back it up if necessary- is enough.

 

I think it was Joanne who often linked to - is it her site?- Get Off Your Butt parenting. I loved it and really took the point- if you do get off your butt to follow through- rather than let things slide- the kids know you mean it when you say things, rather than always looking for the slack boundary.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Along with matermagistra's suggestion....

 

I don't know if the materials she is suggesting teach you HOW to teach your kid to do the thinking process. For young children, there is a lot of conceptual learning they need in order to learn to do that. So where an 8yr old can do that, a 4yr old would need more direct teaching in order to be able to do so.

 

One good curriculum for teaching these concepts is Raising a Thinking Child (there is also a Preteen book). It is done in fun and play which I think solidifies the learning. It'll take awhile to get down all the concepts, but you can easily role play from there and then later use it in discipline.

[phathui5]

A consistant bedtime.

 

Clear expectations of behavior.

 

Fresh air and exercise.

 

Limited television.

 

Swift responses to inappropriate behavior.

[kalanamak]

Thanks for all the replies! Keep them coming, please!

 

I learned a lot from Raising A Thinking Child. Kiddo learned early on that misbehavior became boring, as I made him sit down and go through the steps.

[Runningmom80]

I'm kind of late to this, but two books that have really helped me so far, (someone who was raised in a punitive house, with a temper!) were The Happiest Toddler on the Block, and Buddhism for Mothers.

 

The Happiest Toddler really helped me figure out how to deal with a spirited toddler in an effective way. He does advocate "time outs," but more as a "You need to take some time to cool off and relax," not, "You are being punished."

 

 

Buddhism for mothers is just awesome. It really opened my eyes to how important my time with my child is. I mean, we all know this, but it's hard to remember day in and day out when we are stuck in our heads and not really paying attention.