Can YOU see the "standout" colour? I can't.

[MamaSheep]

That's fascinating! But, at least based on that video, they haven't convinced me that language has anything to do with it. Maybe the Himba's visual cortex has evolved differently, and they use different words as a result.

:iagree: This is what I thought too. There's a good chance that they've got their cause and effect mixed up. It also occurred to me that the population might have a fairly limited and intermingled gene pool and there could be a genetic color-blindness issue at work.

[Carol in Cal.]

I could see it but as I kept looking back at it I started to doubt myself. It was difficult to articulate why it seemed different from the rest.

 

I remember reading years ago that Eskimos have over 15 different names for 'white' because there are so many shade of snow and ice in their normal environment. Having visited paint stores to pick whites, I can easily believe this; but when I read it, I was very surprised.

[Truscifi]

Initially I can spot the one they say is different...if I spend too much time on it, they all start looking the same.

 

This. I immediately picked it out, but then second guessed myself and they all started to look alike.

 

ETA - Yes, it was the 11 o'clock.

[stripe]

:iagree: This is what I thought too. There's a good chance that they've got their cause and effect mixed up. It also occurred to me that the population might have a fairly limited and intermingled gene pool and there could be a genetic color-blindness issue at work.

 

I don't think it's that they're colorblnd but that they group colors differently in their minds. It's common in many Asian languages to speak differently than we do in English.

 

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21133&PN=1

[Upward Journey]

I can see it, but it doesn't exactly jump out at me.

[nmoira]

That's fascinating! But, at least based on that video, they haven't convinced me that language has anything to do with it. Maybe the Himba's visual cortex has evolved differently, and they use different words as a result.

Did you read the summary of the 2005 study linked from Boing Boing? Younger children (three and four year olds) in Britain and of the Himba made similar mistakes when matching colours. I'd still like to read the entire journal article though.

Edited August 14, 2011 by nmoira
clarity

[8circles]

Fascinating! I could pick it out right away but became less confident the more I looked. DH too. None of the kids got it right.

[justamouse]

I could tell, but it is so slight that I can see why most would not be able.

 

I could tell, but I thought this, too. So, slightly different.

[LostSurprise]

I noticed something was "off" with that square, but when I focused on it the difference disappeared. I could only see it by looking at the right or bottom half of the circle. Then it looks lighter.

[Guest submarines]

My eyes were drawn to the right one, but another part of my brain screamed, "They are all the same!":lol:

[justamouse]

That's fascinating! But, at least based on that video, they haven't convinced me that language has anything to do with it. Maybe the Himba's visual cortex has evolved differently, and they use different words as a result.

 

Dd just got done reading Your Inner Fish and we were talking about how we see color (and why dogs don't, though we have the dog ear genetics) and I thought the same as you.

[JeneralMom]

I picked it out right away.

[obsidian]

Initially I can spot the one they say is different...if I spend too much time on it, they all start looking the same.

 

Yes, this. Just glancing I see it.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

Both my husband and I thought it was the one above it :confused: It seemed lighter...

[Rhonda in TX]

Knowing that one in the top picture was different, I did consistently go to the correct square as the different one (before checking which one it is). It's a very slight difference to me, though.

 

Some people really can't see the blue square in the bottom picture? Wow.

[Unicorn.]

Both my husband and I thought it was the one above it :confused: It seemed lighter...

 

Me too!

 

ETA: So did ds. Weird

Edited August 13, 2011 by Unicorn

[cin]

I looked at it from different angles with my laptop and was able to discover which one was different. But they all look the same when I look straight at them.

[AnthemLights]

That's exactly my experience. If I *glance*, my eye is *immediately* drawn to the one that's different. If I *stare* they become indistinguishable. It's very weird.

 

 

Yeah, me too. I picked the odd one out right away, but then the longer I looked, the more confused they became.

 

:tongue_smilie:

[MamaJeanne]

I looked at it from different angles with my laptop and was able to discover which one was different. But they all look the same when I look straight at them.

:iagree:

[MamaSheep]

I don't think it's that they're colorblnd but that they group colors differently in their minds. It's common in many Asian languages to speak differently than we do in English.

 

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21133&PN=1

 

I do understand that this is their premise, yes. I also recognize that the video doesn't present their data in its entirety. However, from what they do say, I see no reason to conclude that the way they group and label colors affects the way they perceive the colors. Rather, I think it more likely that the way they perceive the colors has affected the way they label and group them. If you don't see two colors as different there's no reason to come up with two names for the one color you do see. If you can't distinguish between navy blue, black, dark green etc. because they all look the same to you then there's no reason to label them separately or group that color in with brighter colors that do look distinguishable. Also, the group seems rather isolated and that makes me think that the gene pool may be somewhat limited if the people in this culture have been intermarrying for a long time. So it seems more reasonable to me that there's a genetic factor that affects their visual perceptions and that their perceptions have shaped their language. Or, as someone else suggested, that a neurological developmental factor is at work, again shaping perception which in turn shapes language. Children can distinguish between colors before they ever know the names for them. Language is a way of describing perception.

 

Anyway, it's not that I don't understand their premise, it's just that I'm skeptical of their conclusions.

[Tap]

Language is a way of describing perception.

 

 

to expand on this thought....

 

It would have been interesting to me, to see if the emotion/color correlation rang true or different between the Westerners and the tribe. Does the tribe see red=anger? Yellow=surprise? I also wonder if you compared the results to other people who may have had a different social set ie someone who has been in a mental hospital most of their life? Would they see red as angry? How would they perceive blue? Would they make the connection between calm=blue or would they think "the padded room is blue, thus blue=loss of control"?

 

My niece was very sick as a baby/toddler and got many painful medical procedures before she was old enough to understand. SHE hated, and I mean HATED any man in a white shirt with glasses. White shirts were tolerable, as were men in glasses, not liked, but tolerated. But the combination would leave her screaming. Even if it was a person who she knew and liked in a different color of shirt. Her experiences led her to correlate white/glasses with pain. She wasn't verbal yet...Did her perception/experiences create the associations in he vocabulary of 'white' and 'glasses' or was it just early vocabulary forming that causes the unfortunate associations?

 

They say our language alters our perception. Okay, for the tribe, dark colors are similar. The color of the skin and clay, the dark mountain on a horizon, animal dung....all every day things. But to them, would red mean anger? Or would it mean injury/pain/suffering? (associations w/ blood?) Would white mean anger from seeing the teeth or tusks of animals bared in defense? If their food is a camel colored antelope (I have no idea what they eat) does camel color illicit a hungry feeling in them, like yellow/green/red does in Americans?

 

I may have to follow this research more, to see why they feel it is vocabulary led. This is an interesting concept to me. Hmmm lots to think about.

[freerange]

Should we all be adding colour flashcards to our routine? By this reasoning, children who have the big box of crayons, and use the names given, will perceive a wider range of colours than ones with only a pack of 8.

[stripe]

Also, the group seems rather isolated and that makes me think that the gene pool may be somewhat limited if the people in this culture have been intermarrying for a long time. So it seems more reasonable to me that there's a genetic factor that affects their visual perceptions and that their perceptions have shaped their language. ...

 

Anyway, it's not that I don't understand their premise, it's just that I'm skeptical of their conclusions.

In my case, I am not sure what to make of their conclusion or these people, or how they may interpret being asked which color is different. I too hate studies where I think identifying the conclusion overlooks some obvious shared cause or other example of unclear thinking.

 

I do think different people and different cultures, and in different languages, perceive colors very differently. It seems very messy indeed to pinpoint what is going on. I wish the researchers had delved into it a bit more.

 

It is my understanding that genetic diversity is vast in Africa, even within the same village, and this makes me unsure if there is the same small genetic pool issue that occurs in the rest of the world.

[flyingiguana]

It is my understanding that genetic diversity is vast in Africa, even within the same village, and this makes me unsure if there is the same small genetic pool issue that occurs in the rest of the world.

 

A small population is a small population, no matter what the original genetic diversity was of the larger group that the small population was derived from. The real question is how large a group this is, how small a bottleneck it might have gone through in the past, and how much outbreeding goes on with the surrounding populations.

 

Wikipedia reports a case of a small population with a large number of colorblind people. This seems to have resulted from a founder (bottleneck) event:

"

 

1. Rod monochromacy, frequently called achromatopsia, where the retina contains no cone cells, so that in addition to the absence of color discrimination, vision in lights of normal intensity is difficult. While normally rare, achromatopsia is very common on the island of Pingelap, a part of the Pohnpei state, Federated States of Micronesia, where it is called maskun: about 10% of the population there has it, and 30% are unaffected carriers. The island was devastated by a storm in the 18th century, and one of the few male survivors carried a gene for achromatopsia; the population is now several thousand."

 

Supposedly people with various forms of colorblindness are able to spot camouflage coverings very easily. Probably their eyes are more sensitive to other differences in shades than people with "normal" vision. Therefore, it would not be at all surprising if people with even minimal differences in color vision would be able to pick out the green square that is different more easily. In fact, this is a much more likely explanation than that language is affecting perception. Most of us actually can tell various shades of colors apart that are very close. But these green squares are *really* close (I'd be interested in seeing what the RGB values are for that blue square in the second test. Are they just as similar as the odd green square in the first test?)

 

I would also not be surprised if the people posting here who say they can pick it out easily have some variant in their color vision. Red-green colorblindness is extremely common in men, and female carriers are also very common. Although, for the most part, female carriers have "normal" color vision, it is possible that they may have areas of their eyes that are actually red-green colorblind (due to X-inactivation). Although most of the world may look normal to them, a pocket of colorblindness in their eyes might allow them to pick out that odd square more easily. (Assuming those squares are more distinguishable by people who are colorblind.)

 

Also if you tilt your computer screen around, just about any of those colors can look different from the others. (So it is possible that the colors are more or less distinguishable depending on what screen one is using, or the angle it is set up at.)

 

 

There's something odd about this video, though. Either it's extremely bad science reporting (which is highly likely) or the whole thing is a hoax.

 

ETA: I also just rewatched the bit of the video where the Himba guy is picking out the odd green (it's at 3:24). If you look at the screen right then, it's really easy to pick out the odd green color (at least for me). It's the one he points to and the one the video circles. It's *not* in the position of the one that's supposedly the odd one out in the description below the video (which is nearly impossible for me to pick out). (So something a bit fishy is going on here.)

Edited August 14, 2011 by flyingiguana

[stripe]

http://www.essex.ac.uk/psychology/department/people/Roberson_files/ProgressInColour.pdf

 

Is about the Himba and it says the participants have normal color vision

Edited August 14, 2011 by stripe

[flyingiguana]

I haven't yet read the article you posted (thank you!), but it occurred to me that what's happened is that the researchers had a series of green palettes that they were testing. Some had obvious differences, but they got progressively more subtle. The one the man is pointing to has an obvious standout (although it's still green in our language). The one the woman is shown doesn't have an obvious answer (as far as I can see) -- but it seems to be the same one that is reproduced on the screen. We aren't shown her choosing, nor are we told whether she was right (and based on her little giggle afterwards, one might infer that she didn't know either). I'm guessing the video picked up the impossible one and called it the one the Himba were able to distinguish, making this study seem way more dramatic than it actually might be.

[Ravin]

Simply attributing it to language oversimplifies things, imo. Environment plays an important role as well, if nothing else in shaping that language and why different ways of distinguishing things are important. For instance, I'd like to know how many of the English speakers on here who identified the standout correctly garden, work with fabric or interior design or are artists--something in their cultural environment that would have influenced their tendency to pick out subtle differences in shade.

 

Genetic diversity in humans isn't very great; we're one of the most inbred, genetically bottlenecked species on Earth. In any difference like this, culture is far more likely to explain it (whether language, environmental emphasis, or some combination) than anything genetic.

[dansamy]

I could tell, but it is a subtle difference to me.

[KungFuPanda]

It looks ever-so-slightly washed out to me, but I vant see a difference in the actual color ???

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

It would be interesting to raise a Himba child in a bilingual family and see the effect of learning two languages at the same time. Would that lead to different perceptions of colours?

 

I have realised that, being French first, my ear picks up different sounds (like phonems) than the people around me that are English first. It usually makes me a better speller in English than English people, isn't that weird? But it makes me less appreciative of English poetry because often, I don't hear the rhymes. There's one sound that I hear less than English-speaking persons, and that's the sound H. I hear no difference between Hanna and Anna. Well, I do hear it now, but I don't usually pick it up. I would answer to both if it were my name, and I won't remember how to call someone properly if they're Hanna vs Anna. That sound is a non-entity for French speakers. So if it can happen with sounds, why not with colours?

[MamaSheep]

to expand on this thought....

 

It would have been interesting to me, to see if the emotion/color correlation rang true or different between the Westerners and the tribe. Does the tribe see red=anger? Yellow=surprise? I also wonder if you compared the results to other people who may have had a different social set ie someone who has been in a mental hospital most of their life? Would they see red as angry? How would they perceive blue? Would they make the connection between calm=blue or would they think "the padded room is blue, thus blue=loss of control"?

 

My niece was very sick as a baby/toddler and got many painful medical procedures before she was old enough to understand. SHE hated, and I mean HATED any man in a white shirt with glasses. White shirts were tolerable, as were men in glasses, not liked, but tolerated. But the combination would leave her screaming. Even if it was a person who she knew and liked in a different color of shirt. Her experiences led her to correlate white/glasses with pain. She wasn't verbal yet...Did her perception/experiences create the associations in he vocabulary of 'white' and 'glasses' or was it just early vocabulary forming that causes the unfortunate associations?

 

They say our language alters our perception. Okay, for the tribe, dark colors are similar. The color of the skin and clay, the dark mountain on a horizon, animal dung....all every day things. But to them, would red mean anger? Or would it mean injury/pain/suffering? (associations w/ blood?) Would white mean anger from seeing the teeth or tusks of animals bared in defense? If their food is a camel colored antelope (I have no idea what they eat) does camel color illicit a hungry feeling in them, like yellow/green/red does in Americans?

 

I may have to follow this research more, to see why they feel it is vocabulary led. This is an interesting concept to me. Hmmm lots to think about.

 

What you're talking about here is not a person's perception of color, but the emotional associations they attatch to that perception and their social interpretation of color. Whether two people form the same emotional associations with the same color is a different question from whether they actually see the color differently. And if they do see the color differently there are a whole lot more variables than just language involved from the physical structure of the eye to the function of the optic nerve to the synapses formed in the optic centers in the brain and the synapses formed between the optic centers and other parts of the brain. It could be that labeling colors differently results in different synaptic connections between the optic centers and the language centers in the brain, and maybe that does result in people who speak different languages actually perceiving color differently. But it seems a bit far-fetched to me for a number of different reasons and the video doesn't indicate that they've ruled out enough other possibilities. However, the video is just a report of a scientific novelty for the lay person, not a formal presentation of a peer-reviewed scientific paper so I don't think we have enough information to draw hard and fast conclusions here. I'm just skeptical as to whether they have enough information. It seems to me that they're jumping to conclusions.

[Satori]

I picked it out on my ipad, confirmed it by the rgb values.

 

I am pretty good at distinguishing subtle color hues. Even took a very hard class on color in college once.

[MamaSheep]

A small population is a small population, no matter what the original genetic diversity was of the larger group that the small population was derived from. The real question is how large a group this is, how small a bottleneck it might have gone through in the past, and how much outbreeding goes on with the surrounding populations.

 

Wikipedia reports a case of a small population with a large number of colorblind people. This seems to have resulted from a founder (bottleneck) event:

 

"

1. Rod monochromacy, frequently called achromatopsia, where the retina contains no cone cells, so that in addition to the absence of color discrimination, vision in lights of normal intensity is difficult. While normally rare, achromatopsia is very common on the island of Pingelap, a part of the Pohnpei state, Federated States of Micronesia, where it is called maskun: about 10% of the population there has it, and 30% are unaffected carriers. The island was devastated by a storm in the 18th century, and one of the few male survivors carried a gene for achromatopsia; the population is now several thousand."

Supposedly people with various forms of colorblindness are able to spot camouflage coverings very easily. Probably their eyes are more sensitive to other differences in shades than people with "normal" vision. Therefore, it would not be at all surprising if people with even minimal differences in color vision would be able to pick out the green square that is different more easily. In fact, this is a much more likely explanation than that language is affecting perception. Most of us actually can tell various shades of colors apart that are very close. But these green squares are *really* close (I'd be interested in seeing what the RGB values are for that blue square in the second test. Are they just as similar as the odd green square in the first test?)

 

I would also not be surprised if the people posting here who say they can pick it out easily have some variant in their color vision. Red-green colorblindness is extremely common in men, and female carriers are also very common. Although, for the most part, female carriers have "normal" color vision, it is possible that they may have areas of their eyes that are actually red-green colorblind (due to X-inactivation). Although most of the world may look normal to them, a pocket of colorblindness in their eyes might allow them to pick out that odd square more easily. (Assuming those squares are more distinguishable by people who are colorblind.)

 

Also if you tilt your computer screen around, just about any of those colors can look different from the others. (So it is possible that the colors are more or less distinguishable depending on what screen one is using, or the angle it is set up at.)

 

 

There's something odd about this video, though. Either it's extremely bad science reporting (which is highly likely) or the whole thing is a hoax.

 

ETA: I also just rewatched the bit of the video where the Himba guy is picking out the odd green (it's at 3:24). If you look at the screen right then, it's really easy to pick out the odd green color (at least for me). It's the one he points to and the one the video circles. It's *not* in the position of the one that's supposedly the odd one out in the description below the video (which is nearly impossible for me to pick out). (So something a bit fishy is going on here.)

 

http://www.essex.ac.uk/psychology/department/people/Roberson_files/ProgressInColour.pdf

 

Is about the Himba and it says the participants have normal color vision

 

Yeah colorblindness might not have been the exact term I was looking for, but I don't know another one for what I mean. What I mean is that they might have some subtle difference in their color perception that is not caught by standard vision tests. It might not be as obvious as being unable to tell the differences between the wavelength of light that's perceived as red and the wavelength perceived as green, but there might be other wavelengths that don't register as different on their retinas due to a physical variation and when you mix those wavelengths in with other colors it might make it more difficult for them to distinguish differences. Or something. I don't know. I just think that a difference in perception is more likely to cause a difference in language than the other way around. I totally accept that I could be wrong here, I just didn't see anything in the video that I thought was good data on the subject.

[rootsnwings]

Four of the squares on the top right look darker to me when I stare it for a while.

 

Me too. Must be that southern drawl! ;)

[Kate in Arabia]

My dh was able to tell the different square, but I wasn't until I knew which one -- then I could see a slight tinge difference.

 

It reminds me of the language difference; he's a native Urdu speaker, which has something like six letters that to me all sound like /t/. I have a *really* hard time telling them apart when I hear them (and can't speak them clearly at all).

[Mom0012]

Interestingly, I picked the correct standout color even though I really couldn't see a difference between the greens. I just "felt" it was the right one.

 

Lisa

[MamaSheep]

I was thinking about this thread today and it occurred to me that in some ways this is similar to something we've experienced with ds. Of course being autistic there are a number of things about his nervous system that just don't work the same way as the rest of us, so this one just kind of blends in with the crowd, but is nevertheless sometimes a factor. Anyway, he has a hard time distinguishing between different people unless there are pretty drastic differences. For a long time when he was a baby he couldn't visually differentiate between me and my sister, for example. He can now, easily. But dd has three little friends who are all sort of dark blonde and about the same height who come knocking on our door regularly to see if dd can play, and he can't tell them apart at all. Even if they're lined up he can't tell them apart; they all look the same to him even though they've been coming here to play for YEARS and he sees them all on a regular basis and hears them called by name frequently. He was actually quite pleased with himself when she got a new friend who is Chinese, because he can tell her apart from the rest of the pack. Of course then her sister started coming over sometimes too, and that threw him all off again. But his vision is perfectly normal, there's nothing wrong with his eyes. He's been tested. It's something in his brain that's not clicking. If something like that were to happen with the ability to distinguish colors in the brain it would not show up as color blindness, but they would also have no reason to come up with different words linguistically for colors their brain doesn't perceive as different. And IF it were a genetic condition and IF the gene pool were small, or had bottlenecked at some point, as a pp pointed out, it could affect a large portion of the population in that culture. Ds doesn't use distinguishing terminology for dd's friends. He just calls them all "dd's friend" when referring to them, and leaves off names entirely when speaking directly to them. Sometimes dd and I come home from running errands or whatever and ds will say, "One of dsis's friends stopped by to see if she could play." And when asked which friend it was he'll say, "How should I know? It was one of the blonde ones." He sees no point in giving them names because to him there's really no distinguishable difference.

 

Anyway. I was reminded of this today and it made me think of this thread.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Anyway, he has a hard time distinguishing between different people unless there are pretty drastic differences.

 

Just so you know, I was like that as a child too, even if I'm not autistic - although that's up for debate at times. I took forever to remember classmates and classmates' names. However, my cousins, identical twins whom I was seeing twice a year, I could tell *them* apart way easily, and no one but their parents could. My brain was just wired differently. With years of experience, my brain has aligned itself with the rest of the world. My cousins are harder to tell apart, and I distinguish faces almost normally.

 

Brain wiring is a total mystery.

[MamaSheep]

Just so you know, I was like that as a child too, even if I'm not autistic - although that's up for debate at times. I took forever to remember classmates and classmates' names. However, my cousins, identical twins whom I was seeing twice a year, I could tell *them* apart way easily, and no one but their parents could. My brain was just wired differently. With years of experience, my brain has aligned itself with the rest of the world. My cousins are harder to tell apart, and I distinguish faces almost normally.

 

Brain wiring is a total mystery.

 

How very interesting! Brain wiring is definitely mysterious. Ds is getting better at it as he gets older too. He was in public school through third grade and never could tell the kids at school apart. Except a couple of times he could consistently point out one or two who were bullying him. Never could recognize one who had been friendly with him before. One time in about first grade he came home and told me all about this nice boy who had played with him and what a good time they had. I though HOORAY! A friend! And I asked him what the boy looked like so I could coach him on how to approach the boy the next day to continue the friendship. He said, "Well, he was a boy, and he was wearing a green sweater." He had no idea what color the boy's hair was, or what color his skin was, or how tall he was, or if his hair was longish or really short or straight or curly, or whether the boy had freckles or a big nose, or glasses, or any other distinguishing feature other than the green sweater (ds likes green). We never did figure out who that kid was. But these days he can tell me who a bunch of the kids in his class at church are, and he can tell me that so-and-so likes to play catch with the kleenex box and he likes to sit by whosits because he doesn't tip his chair and he's nice. It's really nice to see that progress being made. Those three girls might be "sister's friends" for the rest of their lives, though...they're short and giggly and he has absolutely no interest in having anything to do with them...yet...lol. When they're 20 and he's 25 it might be a different story.

[nmoira]

Not related to the original post, but I thought you guys would get a kick out of this brilliant illusion:

 

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/17/this-video-illusion-will-destroy-your-brain/

 

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Oh my poor daughter... she's the artist in the family, and very very sensitive to colours. She's going crazy with that optical illusion!

[Garga]

I picked it out right away. It had more yellow.

 

But I'm a highly visual learner! If it was a piece of music that had something different to it, I probably wouldn't hear the difference.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Garga

[nmoira]

Not related to the original post, but I thought you guys would get a kick out of this brilliant illusion:

 

Giving this one its own thread: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303953

Edited August 21, 2011 by nmoira

[MamaSheep]

Not related to the original post, but I thought you guys would get a kick out of this brilliant illusion:

 

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/17/this-video-illusion-will-destroy-your-brain/

 

 

 

Oh that is WAY COOL! I even did my own screen grab from the video and sampled the colors myself. Watching the shadows the girl casts, and comparing them to the cylinder's shadow and the direction the lights are aimed makes me think that a) there are light sources at work that we're not seeing in the set-up, and b) the "shadow" cast by the cylinder is actually painted on the platform tiles and the platform is being illuminated more or less evenly by the overhead light. The light behind the cylinder is aimed too high to be casting that shadow. Very cleverly done.

 

This reminds me of an assignment from my color theory class back in art school where we were to 1) take swatches of the same color of paint chip and place it against two different colored backgrounds such that it then looks like two different colors, and 2) take swatches from two different colored paint chips (different colors, not just different shades of the same color) and place them against different colored backgrounds such that it makes them look like the same color. It was an interesting challenge.

 

ETA: Did you see this one from the same source? (I followed a link.)http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/24/the-blue-and-the-green/

 

The blue stripe and the green stripe are the same color.

Edited August 22, 2011 by MamaSheep