Indigenous, Traditional Diets - what do you think?

[Liz CA]

Dr. Carolyn Dean, a MD and naturopath from Hawaii is advocating traditional diets. This means that you can research where your ancestors came from (last 200 years or so) and see if there are certain traditional foods that were frequently eaten in that area.

I was curious and googled around (I am interested in everything nutrition) and found it works for me.

I love fish, dark rye bread, winter vegetables and hearty stews when it's cold and fresh fruit in summer. I don't eat a whole lot of beef or pork, especially not during hot weather.

My roots are in Eastern Europe / Scandinavia (ocean, fish :001_smile:).

What would you be eating if you followed your traditional diet? :D

Edited July 3, 2011 by Liz CA

[WishboneDawn]

NO. JUST NO.

 

This would mean I'd be eating haggis.

[Carol in Cal.]

I actually think that there is something to this. That's one of the reasons I have always resisted the advice to cut out dairy for myself and my daughter. I think that we are evolved or mutated or whatever to need and want it.

[Liz CA]

Oh, so there is a little Scottish girl here! You don't have to eat EVERYTHING they ate. :D

[Jean in Newcastle]

NO. JUST NO.

 

This would mean I'd be eating haggis.

 

Exactly what I thought! Add my husband's traditional balut and you'd have a gross-out fest at dinner:ack2:

[kiana]

I'm a real mix of Western European types; what should I eat? :(

 

(I do actually think the idea has a lot of merit.)

[zaichiki]

I'm a real mix of Western European types; what should I eat?

 

:lol: That's what I thought, too. ("What about us mutts?")

[OrganicAnn]

I think that it would be difficult to do a European diet without the new world foods. Can you imagine Italian food without tomatoes. Irish food without potatoes?

 

I've heard that traditional Hawaiian food really helps Hawaiians stay healthier.

[Cheryl in NM]

I am mostly German with some Norwegian, Irish and English.

 

Hmmm...so fish-okay, breads-okay, haggis - H*ll no!

 

What else would be a traditional diet for those regions?

[Sputterduck]

I would be eating fish, stew, and dark, heavy bread. YUM

[eternalknot]

I eat pretty closely to the traditional diet of my ancestors. I grew up eating it 100%, and I'd say that I eat it about 80% now. We eat many fruits and vegetables, whatever is in season. Some people ate meat, usually fish. Rice, noodles. Soups. Not really any dairy, which is fine by me other than in June I discovered Sonic Blasts and am sort of having a field day/month with 'em. (And have the disgusting digestive issues to prove that my people didn't do dairy - oh my.)

[Jean in Newcastle]

I am mostly German with some Norwegian, Irish and English.

 

Hmmm...so fish-okay, breads-okay, haggis - H*ll no!

 

What else would be a traditional diet for those regions?

 

Irish would also be corned beef and cabbage, potatoes (though someone pointed out that that is a New World food), soda bread. . .

[Liz CA]

I am putting a link here for those interested in checking this out.

 

http://drcarolyndean.com/fhn

 

Since I am familiar with a lot of naturopathic principles from years of researching and talking to my naturopath, I think she has a lot of good things

to say, it's unlikely I would do everything she suggests, though.

[OrganicAnn]

You know I lived in Ireland for a year and never had corned beef in a restaurant, served in a home or anytime. I think corned beef is an 'americanization of an irish salted pork'. Cabbage is old world (just looked it up).

Edited July 3, 2011 by OrganicAnn

[Once Again]

Interesting. But what is a person of mixed racial background to eat? Mix and match?

[Impish]

NO. JUST NO.

 

This would mean I'd be eating haggis.

:lol:

I don't even know where I'd start.

 

English, Dutch, Beothuk (extinct First Nations tribe from NFLD) just on my mother's side. Add in gluten issues, and I'd likely starve to death...from the $$$ of the food, or what I can't touch :lol:

[Dirtroad]

Sounds like this would also tie in with the recent chemistry diets and blood type diets. The Blood Type things that I read were fascinating and made a great deal of sense. My family perfectly matched their issues and blood types.

 

I assume, for those with heritage from all over the world, that it would be more difficult.

 

My ancestry is English-Irish-Scot-Dutch.... haha.. not much variety there. Lots of hoofed protein, fish, and dark bread.... and maybe some ale?

 

No haggis please.

[zaichiki]

Interesting. But what is a person of mixed racial background to eat? Mix and match?

 

I think it's like with all of us other "mutts" -- we have stronger digestive systems and can eat whatever we want! :D Three hurrahs for heterozygosity!

[Peela]

Yes, it sounds like good theory- unfortunately, wheat isnt what it used to me since it is so hybridised and resistant to bugs and pesticides...and dairy isnt what it used to be, either.

As a type 0 positive, I do find I relate to not being able to refrain from meat easily, though I would ethically prefer to be vegetarian. I think that is heritage- my system likes meat and struggles without any.

 

So, English, Irish, perhaps back to Germany about 400 years ago- what would I eat? I am fair and blonde.

I do love potatoes, cabbages, those sorts of things. I love bacon, if I am honest :) I like kangaroo meat.

Did they really have a lot of dairy? I do eat dairy but have a feeling it's not ideal for me.

[JudyJudyJudy]

As a type 0 positive, I do find I relate to not being able to refrain from meat easily, though I would ethically prefer to be vegetarian. I think that is heritage- my system likes meat and struggles without any.

I'm O-. I definitely need meat, and I don't do well with grains. Both dh and ds are O+.

[Occasionally]

I've had this site bookmarked for ages. It might be interesting for looking up traditional diets from different places around the world: People and Their Diet.

 

:001_smile:

[regentrude]

Define traditional, please. What our great-grandmothers ate 100 years ago - or what distant ancestors ate 1,000 year ago?

Regional diets are in constant flux. During the last 100 years, potatoes have been an everyday staple of the German diet - yet they were not known in Europe during the Middle ages.

[mcconnellboys]

I have primarily Celtic/Gaelic roots.

 

I read somewhere recently, maybe in one of Michael Pollan's books, that a nutritionist convinced a group of Australian Aborigines to return to the outback and traditional foods for a period of several months. As a group they seem to develop diabetes and other ills very quickly when they convert to the Western diet. Most of these folks - maybe all, can't recall - did have diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. Within just a few months after reverting, these problems had completely cleared for most of them!

 

I'm not so sure that genetics alone determine what foods are best for you; I tend to think that the environment you live in also plays a part because of minerals you pick up from that environment and food/water produced in it; amount of sunlight you get in your native environment; amount of aridity vs. humidity, etc., etc.

 

Potatoes came late into the picture of foods for the poor in Ireland, for instance. While that group of people did subsist for a few hundred years on them, most varieties we have on the market today are not even as nutritious as those they had then (and even those weren't the best available at that time). I'm extremely efficient at storing carbs. If I adopted a diet heavy in potatoes (even trying to seek more nutritious varieties), I'd probably not only weight 300 pounds, but be diabetic.... So even though a lot of my immigrant ancesters probably did subsist on potatoes, I'm not likely to even think of going that route....

[The Girls' Mom]

I think that's why I overeat...I'm such a mutt! I like EVERYTHING...lol. My ancestry is all over the place.

[Parrothead]

If we are going back only a couple hundred years, then the "traditional American diet" is what I'm supposed to be eating. My people came over early.

 

Earlier than that it is the typical Scots, Irish, and a wee bit of English. None of those diets are particularly healthy.

[Peela]

 

Potatoes came late into the picture of foods for the poor in Ireland, for instance. While that group of people did subsist for a few hundred years on them, most varieties we have on the market today are not even as nutritious as those they had then (and even those weren't the best available at that time). I'm extremely efficient at storing carbs. If I adopted a diet heavy in potatoes (even trying to seek more nutritious varieties), I'd probably not only weight 300 pounds, but be diabetic.... So even though a lot of my immigrant ancesters probably did subsist on potatoes, I'm not likely to even think of going that route....

 

Yes...and many, many foods are hybridised to be higher in carbs, because sweet foods sell better. Foods like apples and oranges are far sweeter now than they were decades ago. Grapes too. So even if you come from the Mediterranean, if you are eating seedless grapes now, thats a different food to a traditional grape. Any seedless (i.e.hybridised) fruit is far sweeter than its traditional food ancestors.

So not only are people eating more processed foods- if we turn to the fruits and vegetables of our ancestors, unless we are very careful to choose non-hybrid traditional varieties- probably only available in certain organic farms or if you grow your own- we are not eating the same foods anyway.

[mcconnellboys]

That's so true! Most of the foods we eat now have had all the nutrition driven right out of them in favor of longer shelf life, snazzier look, etc. Even fruits and vegi's are not nutritionally what they once were.

 

I was watching that Jamie what's-his-name, Food Revolution, or whatever and he was talking about the tens of thousands of different varieties of apples once grown in the U.S. Now there are six or seven that can typically be found at most stores. I've read about this before. Seed Savers and other groups who are trying to bring back diversity of food crops talk a lot about re-introducing diversity before it's too late (think Irish potato famines, for instance). The movie "The Future of Food" also talks about this.

 

I think that in today's world, we'd have to go a lot further to try to duplicate what our ancestors truly ate than just imitating a particular type of food (potatoes or apples, for instance). Foods are not what they once were....

[Truscifi]

You know, I could probably do that fairly easily. My family is largely native american. I already try to grow indigenous foods in my garden, most of which my ancestors ate, and dh and I have been talking about raising rabbits for meat, which my ancestors ate, and a friend invited me to go deer hunting in the fall, and yup, my ancestors also ate venison. Of course, the other side of my family is German, and dh is of English heritage, so that totally blows my plan. :D

[JudyJudyJudy]

You know, I could probably do that fairly easily. My family is largely native american. I already try to grow indigenous foods in my garden, most of which my ancestors ate, and dh and I have been talking about raising rabbits for meat, which my ancestors ate, and a friend invited me to go deer hunting in the fall, and yup, my ancestors also ate venison. Of course, the other side of my family is German, and dh is of English heritage, so that totally blows my plan. :D

If corn is a large part of your diet, make sure it is organic. Most corn now is genetically modified, and that is not healthy for you.

[FaithManor]

I don't think it would help much unless one was growing one's own food from heritage seeds.

 

If you read the latest National Geographic on the extinction of food varieties, you'll find that 90% of what the world population consumes is now from only 10% of the varieties of grains, fruits, and vegetables there once was. What is being grown are hybrids that are nutritionally very different from what our ancestors raised.

 

Much of the seafood is farmed and not wild caught which again, negatively affects nurtritional concent and the health of the animal. Pigs are fatter, beef is fatter, etc. our ancestors raised smaller, leaner, breeds....breeds that are on the conservancy list and the genetic differences between the ubber monstrous selectively bred commercial beasts and the original breeds are quite eye opening.

 

So, if one were to just eat the modern equivalent of the ancestors' diet, that diet would not have near the same benefit. In order to possibly capitalize on one's genetic heritage, one would also have to eat the specific species/breeds of those plants and animals. Mostly, this is not available except to those who can hobby farm and grow their own.

 

If you are interested in conservancy botanicals, Baker Creek Farms and Seeds of Change are two large scale producers of thousands fo rare seeds. We've grown some of the more unusual green beans, tomatoes, and carrots from Baker Creek and let me say this, they open a whole new world of flavor to you that you never knew existed and have never laid eyes on in even your most prolific organic market.

 

Faith

[jenangelcat]

I think any diet that involves eat minimally processed items (no margarine, cereal, sugar etc) is a good one.

[nmoira]

 

Dr. Carolyn Dean, a MD and naturopath from Hawaii is advocating traditional diets. This means that you can research where your ancestors came from (last 200 years or so) and see if there are certain traditional foods that were frequently eaten in that area.

Whenever I see stuff like this I wonder if those with roots from regions with extremely low protein food choices should be encouraged to consider cannibalism, just as their ancestors may have done. It puts me in mind of "chimpanzee diet" was all the rage (in particular circles anyway) a few years back. Chimps do hunt and eat other primates, but curiously primate meat wasn't a recommended part of the diet. :rolleyes:

[Jane in NC]

If you read the latest National Geographic on the extinction of food varieties, you'll find that 90% of what the world population consumes is now from only 10% of the varieties of grains, fruits, and vegetables there once was. What is being grown are hybrids that are nutritionally very different from what our ancestors raised.

 

...

 

If you are interested in conservancy botanicals, Baker Creek Farms and Seeds of Change are two large scale producers of thousands fo rare seeds. We've grown some of the more unusual green beans, tomatoes, and carrots from Baker Creek and let me say this, they open a whole new world of flavor to you that you never knew existed and have never laid eyes on in even your most prolific organic market.

 

Faith

 

Thanks Faith for reminding me about the new National Geo which was buried in a pile and temporarily forgotten.

 

Going off topic now, but I wonder if you have grown any beans (the kind that need to be shelled) from Seeds of Change or Baker Creek. I am on a heritage bean kick and wonder if you have discovered some interesting varieties.

[ErinMarie123]

Bring on the kuchen & strudel for this German girl! Mmmmm......

[Liz CA]

Define traditional, please. What our great-grandmothers ate 100 years ago - or what distant ancestors ate 1,000 year ago?

Regional diets are in constant flux. During the last 100 years, potatoes have been an everyday staple of the German diet - yet they were not known in Europe during the Middle ages.

 

Dr. Dean suggests going back about 200-300 years. The theory is that our digestive system has adapted to that particular diet. If a someone with deep German roots moves to the tropics, perhaps it would take another 200-300 yrs to adapt to pineapple. :001_smile:

[FaithManor]

Thanks Faith for reminding me about the new National Geo which was buried in a pile and temporarily forgotten.

 

Going off topic now, but I wonder if you have grown any beans (the kind that need to be shelled) from Seeds of Change or Baker Creek. I am on a heritage bean kick and wonder if you have discovered some interesting varieties.

 

 

HI Jane,

 

No, I haven't except that we have grown peas (a sweet variety similar to sugar snap or snow peas) and they were wonderful. Currently, we've struggled to control all of the vining crops and have had to limit our selection. So, I buy organic, dried kidneys, pintos, and navies from a Mennonite store and can them. But, I'd love it if we could eventually have a space large enough with trellises, t-pees, etc. to control the monsters and not have them take over the place. If my parents ever retire and if dh's work schedule ever lets up so we can help them, we all plan to clear an acre of their almost seven, and do more intensive gardening. Heritage breed beans besides green beans will definitely be in that plan.

 

Try the purple variety of "green" beans. We liked them.

 

Faith

[Liz CA]

Peela, this sounds like you are pretty close to the mark. I am not so sure about dairy consumption. I do know that traditional diets in the Swiss Alps included a lot of dairy. It really depends on the geographic area - or if you don't feel good on dairy, I'd leave it out unless you crave it.

[Liz CA]

Yes, another vote for Baker Creek. Those who live in Northern CA, along 101, can even visit their store.

I think your point on animal husbandry and the quality of meat is finally gaining some ground - at least here in CA. There are more and more meat producers whose herds are raised on organic grasses.

As far as fish goes, I do only buy wild caught for the reasons you mentioned.

[Liz CA]

Very true! I really think that certain diseases with early onset (in our forties) are a result of the ever-deteriorating quality of our food. Just my opinion.

As far as Dr. Dean recommends this, I am sure I read somewhere that she knows it's not an exact science.

[Liz CA]

Whenever I see stuff like this I wonder if those with roots from regions with extremely low protein food choices should be encouraged to consider cannibalism, just as their ancestors may have done. It puts me in mind of "chimpanzee diet" was all the rage (in particular circles anyway) a few years back. Chimps do hunt and eat other primates, but curiously primate meat wasn't a recommended part of the diet. :rolleyes:

 

Chimps eat each other??? :lol:

[nmoira]

 

Chimps eat each other??? :lol:

No, but they do hunt, kill, and eat other primates -- infants are easy pickings. :tongue_smilie:

[Firefly]

Going off topic now, but I wonder if you have grown any beans (the kind that need to be shelled) from Seeds of Change or Baker Creek. I am on a heritage bean kick and wonder if you have discovered some interesting varieties.

 

Not Faith, but I grew Hutterite soup beans last year and loved the experience. I did one 3x8 bed and got almost exactly 1 pound of dry beans. I let them dry right in the garden, and on a cool, dry autumn day sat at the kitchen table and popped them out of their shells. They came right out, very easily. I was so proud of my little mason jar of beans-- it took me forever to finally use them! LOL

 

I'm mostly Scotch-Irish, with a little bit of Italian. Normally I try to eat food close to it's original state (fresh, local, not or minimally processed) -- which I think is how most people's ancestors probably ate. But I don't really pay attention to indigenous diets... mostly because I AM a mutt and I think that would be hard. But I think this idea is very interesting, so thanks for sharing the link.

[Jane in NC]

Not Faith, but I grew Hutterite soup beans last year and loved the experience. I did one 3x8 bed and got almost exactly 1 pound of dry beans. I let them dry right in the garden, and on a cool, dry autumn day sat at the kitchen table and popped them out of their shells. They came right out, very easily. I was so proud of my little mason jar of beans-- it took me forever to finally use them! LOL

 

I'm mostly Scotch-Irish, with a little bit of Italian. Normally I try to eat food close to it's original state (fresh, local, not or minimally processed) -- which I think is how most people's ancestors probably ate. But I don't really pay attention to indigenous diets... mostly because I AM a mutt and I think that would be hard. But I think this idea is very interesting, so thanks for sharing the link.

 

Mmmm.. Thank you for sharing your complete Hutterite bean experience. And how was that soup?

 

One anecdotal aside here: In appearance, I look like the side of the family that were dairy farmers for several generations. I love dairy! My sister looks like the Polish side of the family. She loves kraut and vinegary things. She can have them!

 

Jane

[Rosie_0801]

Here's a fun book on this type of idea: http://www.amazon.com/Jungle-Effect-Discovers-Healthiest-World-Why/dp/0061535656

 

Can you imagine Italian food without tomatoes. Irish food without potatoes?

 

Yes, but I hang out with historical re-enactors. :p

 

I'd be choosing between Eastern European and British. I'd take vegetable pottage over meat-fest any day. Though I am partial to a good zurek. Wish I could figure out how to make it, rather than mess.

 

Rosie

[Jane in NC]

Though I am partial to a good zurek. Wish I could figure out how to make it, rather than mess.

 

Rosie

 

Had to go to Google. I don't remember my grandmother making zurek!

[missmoe]

Yes, another vote for Baker Creek. Those who live in Northern CA, along 101, can even visit their store.

I think your point on animal husbandry and the quality of meat is finally gaining some ground - at least here in CA. There are more and more meat producers whose herds are raised on organic grasses.

As far as fish goes, I do only buy wild caught for the reasons you mentioned.

 

Baker Creek also has a store/village in MO and recently bought a company in the Northeast and have seeds available there as well.

 

I have grown beans to shell and it does take lots and lots of room to get any amount to eat!

[zaichiki]

If corn is a large part of your diet, make sure it is organic. Most corn now is genetically modified, and that is not healthy for you.

 

GM corn can be organic, right? Doesn't organic just mean they add no pesticides/herbicides/chemical fertilizers? So you want organic AND non-Genetically Modified. I think it's *really* hard to find non GM food nowadays. If I remember correctly, nothing that is GM needs to be labeled that way and nearly *everything* is GM.

[Firefly]

Mmmm.. Thank you for sharing your complete Hutterite bean experience. And how was that soup?

 

I made a white bean and escarole soup which was delicious. OP- sorry for the thread hijack! **attempts to steer herself back on topic** I have no idea where beans are indigenous to, but I love them. :D

[Rosie_0801]

I have no idea where beans are indigenous to, but I love them. :D

 

It depends on the bean! Some are New World, some are Old World crops.

 

:)

Rosie

[Rhonda in TX]

We've been here since the 1600s, so going back 200 years, that puts us here in the US. And, as far back as I know, we've been in the south. I'm not exactly sure what that means, diet-wise.