Sometimes I wonder (another religion thread, brought to you by Aubrey)

[Aubrey]

if maybe I'm just not cut out for it.

 

Shoot. I visited one church a couple of months ago after reading about it extensively online. My experience there was so odd that no one from that background had ever encountered it. They encouraged me to try again elsewhere, but the rest of the local ones were too far.

 

Tonight I went to an informational meeting. I called ahead to see if there would be childcare because at the last minute, dh wanted to go, too. No childcare, but bring your kids--only 30 min & no deep theological conundrums to worry about exposing them to.

 

But the regular meetings about which I was obtaining information? No childcare for those, either. She could have told me that on the phone & saved me from wasting my evening.

 

You could invite me to your church/temple/parish/etc, but something would go wrong for no other reason than that I was there. Your pastor would have to go out of town, & the visiting guy would spend the whole time shewing away an imaginary fly. Or there would be a freak fire alarm. Or an infestation of crickets, lizards, hornets, whatever. I'm creative, but I"m mostly citing real-life religious experiences.

 

I was asked once for the date & place of my baptism. That's fine. I actually know that. But then they wanted "proof." I come from a denomination that I'm pretty sure offers no records, no proof. And what's more, they think they're the ONLY way, so if there is any proof, they'd probably try to save my soul from hell by refusing to deliver it to another inquiring body.

 

I think the certificates that the Baptists handed out to the kids when they were baptized are cute. But the best I could do is offer an amended birth or teaching certificate. (Not to make this political...:D)

 

I'll tell ya: I'm disappointed. My feelings are hurt. I don't care that they didn't offer childcare--it would have been nice, & w/out it, I can't afford to be one of them, but hey. I don't think I'm going to hell w/out the right kind of certificate or steeple, so that doesn't bother me. She didn't think to tell me on the phone? Annoying, but understandable.

 

What hurts is saying NO, there's no childcare as if I were rude to ask. By the time it was my turn to ask a question, I could already tell what the answer was going to be, & so I was already embarrassed, but what am I going to do??

 

I think there is an assumption that anyone interested in this faith already comes from that sort of background--no, I know this, because the lingo of the informational meeting might as well have been in Swahili, I understood so little. But if we were from this sort of background, we could bring the kids or leave them w/ grandparents or something. No big deal.

 

We're not. To even go to an informational meeting is like making a deal w/ the devil to some people in our family. (It's not; it's still Christian; I don't want to leave anyone thinking I'm making actual deals w/ the devil.) :lol: But there was a *complete* lack of recognition of what a difficult thing this was for us to even be there.

 

Honestly, I think the lady in charge thought we were spies trying to convert her people to our faith. But I'm paranoid like that. :lol: Look sideways at me, & who knows what I will think. That's another thread, though.

 

I think I want sympathy. I think I want y'all to tell me to give up, stay home, & thumb my nose at people of faith. But then that wouldn't make any sense, & I'd argue w/ you, & in arguing w/ you, I'd realize the irony of arguing, feel sheepish, & eventually try again. In another 10 years. :glare:

 

But you know, if you have a better idea of what to tell me, feel free. :lol::lurk5:

[LittleIzumi]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I would be weirded out by that meeting too, but you'll find a place!!

[Pink Fairy]

I'm sorry. :grouphug: Just throwing this out there, because it really helps me when I'm feeling let down by other Christians. Basically, I try to remember that Christ chose extremely fallible men for his apostles. They denied him, they abandoned him, and they doubted him. And since I'm not even counting Judas, those were actually the good ones! So why should I be surprised when people don't act the way I think they should? Shoot, even I don't act the way I think I should. :lol:

 

Is it possible that you and dh could switch off, and each attend every other meeting? Anyway, more :grouphug:'s, and I hope you can find a way to make it work. I know when my dh and I were first flirting with the idea of Christianity, it seemed like everything that could go wrong did. When it was all over, I figured that it was just the devil doing his best to keep us for himself.

 

Ugh, sorry if this isn't worded well or I'm not making sense--my kids are running around like wild hyenas, and I can't concentrate.

[Sophia]

Have you heard the saying "Pick your bunch of sinners and hang with them. And while you’re at it, build up the body you’re hanging with."?

 

 

Unless of course, you don't really want to be part of a church body.

[GWOB]

:grouphug:

 

I don't know if what I am going to say will help at all or even make sense. It may help to know that there are others out there struggling with the same thing and stumbling along the way.

 

I was originally baptized Catholic. My parents left that church and joined an uber-fundamentalist Baptist church, where I was baptized agin to make it count. I was raised flaming Southern Baptist. Yeah, I said FLAMING Southern Baptist. I left home and really stopped going to church. Way long story. So then I got knocked up and married (yes, in that order). I decided to go back to church. My first choice was to go back to the Southern Baptist church. Bad idea. I too went to a meeting where I felt completely uncomfortable, like I was being stared at the whole time. We bounced around from church to church for many years. Nothing really fit. No church completely represented my beliefs. More often than not we just stayed home. Jesus felt more like a chore than anything else. I mean, I totally love Jesus, but He should be easy, not hard. Sure, some people would argue that He can be hard, but I digress. Anyhoo, we finally ended up in a somewhat permanent spot. We decided to really get serious about church. Of course, the first church we visited (which probably would have been the best fit) was looking for a new pastor. We ended up in an LCMS church. It was cool at first, but now some major issues are popping up. Fundamental theological differences. Not a big deal for me, but a big deal to the church. I like the people there and I like a lot of what they have to say, but I'm feeling a bit out of place.

 

You know what I really want to do? I want to go back to the Catholic church. You know why I can't yet? One, because my dad would have a stroke and never speak to me again, and also because all the "cool" people in my clique-ish small town go there and I don't want them to think I converted just to be cool. Do I win the "Lamest Jesus-Person Ever" award?

 

This Jesus thing is hard. I don't think it should be, but it is. I don't know if we are really supposed to figure it all out. I think Jesus gives us credit for trying.

[Aubrey]

I'm sorry. :grouphug: Just throwing this out there, because it really helps me when I'm feeling let down by other Christians. Basically, I try to remember that Christ chose extremely fallible men for his apostles. They denied him, they abandoned him, and they doubted him. And since I'm not even counting Judas, those were actually the good ones! So why should I be surprised when people don't act the way I think they should? Shoot, even I don't act the way I think I should. :lol:

 

I don't think I'm disappointed w/ Christians in general...or even *really* the lady who ran the meeting tonight. She's a particular personality who seems to always run religious education, & it's a personality that can smell mine coming & really doesn't like mine, but that's not really personal.

 

I think I'm more disappointed w/ the system.

 

Is it possible that you and dh could switch off, and each attend every other meeting?

 

No; they keep attendance for one thing. And the whole point of going together is that we tend to "hear" things differently. To have any sort of discussion on our own, we really have to attend the same class/meeting to at least know we got the same information, even if it was immediately converted to different meaning in our different heads. :lol:

 

Anyway, more :grouphug:'s, and I hope you can find a way to make it work. I know when my dh and I were first flirting with the idea of Christianity, it seemed like everything that could go wrong did. When it was all over, I figured that it was just the devil doing his best to keep us for himself.

 

Ugh, sorry if this isn't worded well or I'm not making sense--my kids are running around like wild hyenas, and I can't concentrate.

 

We're already Christians; we're just stuck in a stream that's headed one way while our ideologies go another. We'd like to quit swimming upstream & maybe migrate to the appropriate place. Alternately, we've tried compromising/changing our ideologies to fit the stream we're in. So far, the former isn't easy, & the latter is becoming more & more clearly an issue of conviction rather than ideology. Much harder to change a conviction. :lol:

[Aubrey]

Have you heard the saying "Pick your bunch of sinners and hang with them. And while you’re at it, build up the body you’re hanging with."?

 

 

Unless of course, you don't really want to be part of a church body.

 

That's what we were trying to do tonight!

[OrganicAnn]

I always feel weird when I go into a new place (church, school, neighborhood, etc). After I've been there awhile I wonder why I thought everything was so awkward and weird.

 

I know people who have requested their baptismal records from a wide variety of churches. They usually have to keep track of weddings and baptism. I would write to them asking them to send you a letter/form confirming your baptism. I would give the the year and date as best you can. I would include a check for $5 to cover the costs, if they can send your records. I would not tell them why you want it or need it.

[Aubrey]

Do I win the "Lamest Jesus-Person Ever" award?

 

This Jesus thing is hard. I don't think it should be, but it is. I don't know if we are really supposed to figure it all out. I think Jesus gives us credit for trying.

 

I don't know about the bolded part, but here's what's scary: now I wish you were my neighbor so we could have these ridiculous conversations all day. We could make disguises for ea other to visit the churches that would make our parents freak.

 

I don't know what else we could do, but I love you now. And I'm pretty sure based on the strangers I come across that that means you're doomed. :lol:

[justamouse]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Aubrey]

I always feel weird when I go into a new place (church, school, neighborhood, etc). After I've been there awhile I wonder why I thought everything was so awkward and weird.

 

I know people who have requested their baptismal records from a wide variety of churches. They usually have to keep track of weddings and baptism. I would write to them asking them to send you a letter/form confirming your baptism. I would give the the year and date as best you can. I would include a check for $5 to cover the costs, if they can send your records. I would not tell them why you want it or need it.

 

I know all the mainline denominations keep records. (Or I'm learning that they probably do.) I was raised Church of Christ. I really, really don't think they keep anything like that. There was no certificate, no witness (except my mom), no announcement at church, NOTHING. We met the pastor on a weekday morning.

 

Sure, I could ask. I think I remember the name of the place. It might even still be there. I'd be shocked if they can do anything.

 

ETA: I didn't feel weird--an informational meeting is easy. I just can't continue to go 2x/week+ w/ 4 dc.

[MrsBasil]

:grouphug:

Edited May 17, 2011 by MrsBasil
I was being to whiny :)

[AngelBee]

:grouphug:

[staceyobu]

Well, this makes me super curious as to what kind of church you visited. Did I miss that in the thread somewhere or are you not sayin'?

[OnTheBrink]

If it makes you feel any better, I was baptized in a non-denom mega-church in CA. When we moved to MO, the pastor of the S. Baptist church said I had to be re-baptized to be a member of the church. He said that unless I was baptized in a S. Baptist church somewhere else, he wanted to make sure I was baptized "right" and wasn't "riding on an infant baptism" or something. :001_rolleyes: I went along with it, for EX's sake, but I was. not. happy.

 

Something to think about though: people aren't rude, or insensitive, or unpleasant because of Christ, they're that way despite Him. So, don't let people you don't click with affect your relationship with Him. I love my church, but there are some very unpleasant people in it. I have to remind myself a lot that my relationship with God isn't dependent on them, kwim?

[Giraffe]

Well, this makes me super curious as to what kind of church you visited. Did I miss that in the thread somewhere or are you not sayin'?

 

I am too, but will refrain from asking. Oops. :tongue_smilie:

 

I think Aubrey, WendiLouHoo, and I should form a support group. I could hug you both. I feel the exact same way! :D

[Ellie]

I know all the mainline denominations keep records. (Or I'm learning that they probably do.).

I doubt that they do. Really.

 

The Catholic Church does, probably the Orthodox Church does. I'm pretty sure, though, that Mr. Ellie would not be able to call the Southern Baptist church where he was baptized long ago and get the date; neither could I do that with the Wesleyan church where I was baptized in the 70s.

[MamaSheep]

Dagnabbit, Aubrey, everytime you post one of these threads it makes me want to kidnap you and take you to church with me. (Talk about churches that make parents freak.) Your longing just really comes through, and I want to give you what I have.

 

I hope you find what your heart is searching for.

 

 

P. S. Yes, I know you're not interested, even though I could send some nice people to your own house on your own schedule for an informational meeting...lol. Don't worry, I don't know where you live.

 

P. P. S. Just to be clear, the kidnapping bit was hyperbole. I am not a kidnapper. Really and truly. No matter what you might have heard about me. :D

[GWOB]

I am too, but will refrain from asking. Oops. :tongue_smilie:

 

I think Aubrey, WendiLouHoo, and I should form a support group. I could hug you both. I feel the exact same way! :D

 

I'm in!

[Sugarfoot]

I'm sorry:grouphug:. I know it seems easier at times to just stay home. My DH and I were raised in a different faith than the one we practice now. The "flamin' one," actually, thanks, Wendilou!;)

 

Yesterday, I felt awful. Totally drained emotionally and really down. ALL I wanted was to be in the presence of Jesus during Mass. Alone would have been great, but I settled for sandwiched between kids with a squirming 3 y.o. on my lap. It turned out to be one of those times when I nearly cried during communion. Sometimes that happens, I know I sound like a loony toony:D BUT, I needed His presence so very much, and there it was. I felt physically different when we left. And then on our way out, our priest asked me to pray for his family, which also helped my perspective.

 

So maybe this church wasn't the one because you're meant to be in next place you look. I remember feeling SO out of place when we were first beginning the process. Now I can barely remember anything else, and our DC don't know anything but the faith that they love.

 

Keep trying. When you find what's right for you, it'll be worth it.

[Teachin'Mine]

Aubrey have you thought about calling the head honcho of that church and telling him that both of you want to attend the meetings but can't because there's no childcare available? He may have a solution. Maybe there's a teen group which could have a couple of teens on hand to have childcare during this time - you never know. Doesn't hurt to ask. :grouphug:

[justamouse]

Yo Aub, Jesus and Mary Magdalene are kicking it up in Aussieland.

 

"Just a little over 2000 years ago, we arrived on the Earth for the first time," Miller says on his website. "Because of my personal desire and passion for God, as I grew, I recognized not only that I was the Messiah that was foretold by ancient prophets, but also that I was in a process designed by God that all humans could follow, if they so desired."

 

All this time searching and we missed him. ;) I can't afford tickets to Australia, so I guess he'll have to go on without me. Watch the vid. Jesus teaching with a dry erase board. Best. Vid. Ever.

Edited May 17, 2011 by justamouse

[simka2]

Sometimes I think people just lack tact. In my case I am looking to join the EO. Well, they aren't evangelistic in the same way that my previous denomination is. As a result they do not go as far out of their way to make me comfortable. Don't get me wrong, they are wonderful, caring people...their just isn't a bait and switch. As a newbie it was difficult for me to deal with the raw humaness, but then I realized that I would rather they wear the truth of who they are, then hide behind a facade of Christian salesmanship. I am not sure when I changed, but at some point I decided to belong where I chose and no ones lack of people skills was going to rob me of that.

I was really faced with this last week. One of the most offensive woman I have ever met was in my chatecism class :glare: once again I had to face the fact that this woman's issue were her own.

:grouphug: because this process can be very frustrating.

[T'smom]

As a side note, I HATE that people assume childcare is not an issue. Our church is crawling with kids. Tons and tons of kids. Our pastor is always going on and on about how important it is to join a community group. How people don't want to join because they don't want to get involved because they're such selfish people. Because community groups are all about caring for each other and living life together, yada, yada, yada. It really bugs me. There is only one group that has childcare and it always fills up super fast. It seems like everyone else has grandparents around to babysit or whatever. We don't. We would love to be in a group and be more involved and, in fact, I am one of those people who love helping other people and hate being helped. But, without childcare....we can't do it. And I don't mind paying for it, especially if my kids are in a group with other kids and the room is being videotaped (like the nursery is on Sun. mornings) But, no. Anyway, I have no advice.....I just hear you on the childcare issue!

[texasmama]

I think you might like my church. We even have child care.;) (and no one would notice your roots...)

[justamouse]

I hope you know i was being bratty.

[Little Nyssa]

I second the "ask the priest/pastor" idea, & tell him it would really help you if there were child care.

And, that said... I have often been tapped to provide childcare for meetings like this-- I drag DKs to a night meeting so they can play with whoever comes-- then the families who said they were coming do not show up. It's a "holy deed" to provide childcare for a church meeting, but sometimes it's a thankless job & one gets discouraged & doesn't want to volunteer again. Sorry, vent over.

[Rosie_0801]

:grouphug::grouphug: I sure hope you find something, Chickie. :(

 

 

Rosie

[emzhengjiu]

I was raised in the Church of Christ as well. There were no baptismal records kept when I was baptised. When I changed to the Episcopal Church, I wasn't asked to present any records. As part of the Episcopal Church, my confirmation and my daughters' baptismal records will always be available. I find that oddly reassuring and comforting. Aubrey, I hope you find the right place for you in Christ's church!

 

Ann

[mommaduck]

:grouphug:

[Aubrey]

If it makes you feel any better, I was baptized in a non-denom mega-church in CA. When we moved to MO, the pastor of the S. Baptist church said I had to be re-baptized to be a member of the church. He said that unless I was baptized in a S. Baptist church somewhere else, he wanted to make sure I was baptized "right" and wasn't "riding on an infant baptism" or something. :001_rolleyes: I went along with it, for EX's sake, but I was. not. happy.

 

Yeah, being rebaptized would be a hill for me to die on. I'm unfortunately stubborn at odd times.

 

Something to think about though: people aren't rude, or insensitive, or unpleasant because of Christ, they're that way despite Him. So, don't let people you don't click with affect your relationship with Him. I love my church, but there are some very unpleasant people in it. I have to remind myself a lot that my relationship with God isn't dependent on them, kwim?

 

:001_huh: I must have written something wrong in my OP. The lady had snappy eyes & a tone, & I interpret that as rude. I wish she'd said, "Oh, honey, I'm sorry, no," instead of "NO." W/ the snappy eyes & tone. But I'm oversensitive to that sort of thing. I'm not saying anyone was sinning, or anything as drastic as my relationship w/ Christ. :confused:

 

We've been in a church where the pastor lied & manipulated & stole $$--that was really bad. But that didn't effect my relationship w/ Christ, either. It had nothing to do w/ Him!

[unsinkable]

Am I reading this correctly? You went to an informational meeting at a church. The church has no childcare for the services so your kids couldn't go to the services?

[mommaduck]

Strange about the wanting "proof of baptism". I've never heard of such.

[mommaduck]

Y The lady had snappy eyes & a tone, & I interpret that as rude. I wish she'd said, "Oh, honey, I'm sorry, no," instead of "NO." W/ the snappy eyes & tone. But I'm oversensitive to that sort of thing.

 

I would have read it that way also.

[Aubrey]

I think you might like my church. We even have child care.;) (and no one would notice your roots...)

 

I wore a hat. Of course, that could have been part of the problem, too. :lol:

[Mary in VA]

:grouphug::grouphug: To Aubrey. Wish I could take you to my church. It has it's problems and some of the people can get on my nerves at times, but I really believe they love the Lord and are trying to follow Him, and this side of heaven that's about all we can expect.

 

This Jesus thing is hard. I don't think it should be, but it is. I don't know if we are really supposed to figure it all out. I think Jesus gives us credit for trying.

 

:grouphug: To Wendilou. The Jesus thing IS hard, but I don't know how it can't be. Even when we love Him and desire to follow him, it is a DAILY struggle against our sinfulness and frailty. I don't believe we can fully comprehend all of the Bible with our finite human intelligence, although we are to try with the help of the Holy Spirit. And even in the church we are surrounded by people who are also struggling. Then you add in the joys, heartaches, daily grind of life and IT IS HARD. One of the things that makes me desire heaven the most, besides being with Jesus face-to-face, is the daily struggle against myself will be over. Heck, if Paul found it hard, then I'm in good company! Romans 7:15

 

Mary

Edited May 17, 2011 by Mary in VA

[snickelfritz]

Strange about the wanting "proof of baptism". I've never heard of such.

 

 

I grew up in a S. Baptist church. Becoming a member was dependent upon baptism there or "receipt of letter" from the S. Baptist church you had been baptized at.

 

Our current S. Baptist church(and the one before that) takes you at your word that it was baptism by immersion....the type of church doesn't matter. Which is good, since I was baptized in college at a Christian Church.

[GWOB]

Strange about the wanting "proof of baptism". I've never heard of such.

 

That is a little weird. I know when we joined the LCMS church they just asked for our baptismal dates. Imagine the look on our pastor's face when I replied "Which one?" In many Baptist churches, they'll just re-baptize you to make sure it's done properly. Heck, they will re-baptize you if you feel like you need it.

[Aubrey]

Am I reading this correctly? You went to an informational meeting at a church. The church has no childcare for the services so your kids couldn't go to the services?

 

No--the kids came w/ us to the meeting, but it was about specific classes, not Sun services. No one else interested in the classes had children (that I could tell--they were mostly really old or really young). So for the classes, there'd be no childcare.

[mommaduck]

I wore a hat. Of course, that could have been part of the problem, too. :lol:

 

:lol: I apologised for showing up at church with hairy legs (couldn't shave at the time due to sores due to puppps). The ladies laughed and said, "honey, we're Greek...we shave and get 2 o'clock shadows; who cares if you have hairy legs" ;)

[mommaduck]

That is a little weird. I know when we joined the LCMS church they just asked for our baptismal dates. Imagine the look on our pastor's face when I replied "Which one?" In many Baptist churches, they'll just re-baptize you to make sure it's done properly. Heck, they will re-baptize you if you feel like you need it.

 

And then add in all the "rededications". Yep, I grew up Baptist....born into SBC, raised IFB, married into SBC...then went every denomination after marriage till we found Orthodoxy. I'm one of the very few non-SBCer's on my dad's side (the others are LDS, Metaphysical, and one of my sisters wants to go to the EO church, but work makes things difficult for her). My FIL used to be an SBC pastor (we have that man so confuddled).

[unsinkable]

No--the kids came w/ us to the meeting, but it was about specific classes, not Sun services. No one else interested in the classes had children (that I could tell--they were mostly really old or really young). So for the classes, there'd be no childcare.

 

OK, thank you!

 

Gosh, I hope it wasn't RCIA! I'd hate to think my people are doing you wrong.

[Parrothead]

When dh joined the church last year he had to get a letter from the (Methodist) church he was baptized in since they don't do baptismal certificates.

 

I know the baptismal certificate is a big deal in the Catholic church. That certificate follows one around from birth (or baptism) to death. That said, there are ways to get around not having one from a different denomination.

[WishboneDawn]

if maybe I'm just not cut out for it.

 

What if you're looking for the wrong model?

 

What if you won't find a church with all the answers or a comfortable fit because you're really looking for a place that's comfortable with all your questions? A place where you can find community but not feel like you're being put in a box before you're ready.

 

What about a UU church, at least for a little while?

 

I'm not UU BTW, I'm Anglican and I would SO take you to church on a Sunday if you were close :) but I sort of think UU might be so out-of-the-box that it's worth a try.

[WishboneDawn]

I was raised in the Church of Christ as well. There were no baptismal records kept when I was baptised. When I changed to the Episcopal Church, I wasn't asked to present any records. As part of the Episcopal Church, my confirmation and my daughters' baptismal records will always be available. I find that oddly reassuring and comforting. Aubrey, I hope you find the right place for you in Christ's church!

 

Ann

 

I think the Episcopal is on the same page as the Anglican church on baptisms and accepts any and all. I know that at our church any "baptized Christian" is welcome to receive communion despite what denomination that may have happened in and if they became Anglican there would be no second baptism. I think the view is that a baptism welcomes you into the world community of Christians and the community of Christians is not restricted to Anglicans. Once you're family, you're family and there's no need to haze you again. :D

[Chris in VA]

I'm sorry so much seems to be thwarting your attempts to get on with the church thing.

 

Do you know ANY babysitters/homeschooled teens/other teens that could come to your house and watch your kids? IOW, provide your own childcare?

 

(Maybe it's financial--I understand that one, for sure!)

 

If you are still interested in going, I would definitely call the office and ask to speak to the priest/pastor/whatever and explain the situation. Even if they can't provide care, they should be made aware of the fact that people need it from time to time. I've been very proactive in making sure there's care for the women's bible studies we've done. I always get a little ticked that there's no provision for children on our annual diocesan clergy conference--it carries over to making sure there's care at our church.

 

And thanks for letting me use the word, "thwarting." Made my day.

[elegantlion]

:grouphug: Faith is easy, it's when you throw people into the mix that it gets difficult. :grouphug:

[Sugarfoot]

OK, thank you!

 

Gosh, I hope it wasn't RCIA! I'd hate to think my people are doing you wrong.

 

Me, too! And if it was, keep looking. Every parish around here provides child care during RCIA classes. All of those teens need volunteer hours for confirmation, you know.;)

[Sugarfoot]

Oh, and also, my DH was baptized in a river--an ACTUAL river. He doesn't have a written record of it, but you can imagine the look on the face of the priest when he said it.:lol: It'd been funny to get some sort of record of THAT!

[unsinkable]

Me, too! And if it was, keep looking. Every parish around here provides child care during RCIA classes. All of those teens need volunteer hours for confirmation, you know.;)

 

:lol: