Statement of Faith?

[Britomart]

Here's my problem with that. The OP and I are both LDS. We are Christians. LDS is a subset of Christian. Protestants don't get to own the word Christian, any more than LDS folks or Catholic folks or JWs do. They are all subsets of the overarching word Christian, which simply means someone who believes in Jesus Christ as Savior. So when you have a group that says it's Christian, then it seems wrong and mean to exclude other Christians. Perhaps if people would call themselves "The Conservative Protestant Homeschooling Group," it would help. If there was a homeschooling group just for Mormons, it would be called that, not the more general term.

 

Well, but what if someone disagrees with you about the definition of the word "Christian"? Would it be okay to say "This is a Christian homeschooling group, and we define 'Christian' as those who can assent to the Nicene Creed"? That way they'd be using the word they thought was appropriate, but being up-front about what they meant by it . . .

 

I just ask because it seems like you're insisting that they're rude if they don't agree with your definition of "Christian". But not everyone does have the same definition. I'm thinking there has to be a way for them to hold their opinion of the definition, but without being rude about it . . . or maybe disagreement just always is offensive, whether it's meant to be or not. (Really wondering, not being snarky. I've been wondering a lot about the subject of disagreement lately, and how it affects relationships.) But if disagreement is always offensive to someone, somewhere, does that mean that we just have to live with being offensive sometimes? What should you do if you have a different definition of the word?

 

I guess I don't think it's reasonable to insist that they adopt your definition of the word anymore than it's reasonable for them to insist you adopt theirs. What do you do in that situation? Agree to disagree?

 

Fwiw, a method I've seen that I liked was in a group that made you sign a statement of faith - not sign that you believed it, but that you understand the leaders do, and that you are okay with them teaching from that perspective. It seemed to let the leaders keep their integrity (they were open about what they believed) and the parents keep theirs (they didn't have to agree with every jot and tittle, just be okay with having people who did believe it run the classes.)

 

(Full disclosure: my definition would be the Nicene Creed one - but only with the caveat that I believe that's proper statement of doctrine, not substitute for God's knowledge about each person's heart. (I.e., I'm not God. :) )It just seems to me to be the most concise statement accepted by most Christians, most places, in most times, so if you needed a definition, that's the one I'd go with.)

[pgr]

Wow! I think this makes some really uncharitable assumptions.

 

IMO, a SOF is not intended to outline what one thinks all Christians should be, think, believe and do. It's just a way of saying, "We are a group who does believe this." It doesn't mean we think you should believe this; just that we do and this is the identity of this group.

 

In no way is a SOF (generally speaking) a way of saying you are not a good enough Christian and I think the assumption that it is is "icky.";)

 

You have a valid point here. I still hate the fact that, in *many* cases, a SOF ends up being a point of exclusion rather than inclusion...

[unsinkable]

OK, I'm obviously missing something here.....:confused:

 

There is a poster pqr who IMO, would NEVER have agreed with that statement.

 

When you read your name quickly, it looks like pqr.

[Kate CA]

Wow! I think this makes some really uncharitable assumptions.

 

IMO, a SOF is not intended to outline what one thinks all Christians should be, think, believe and do. It's just a way of saying, "We are a group who does believe this." It doesn't mean we think you should believe this; just that we do and this is the identity of this group.

 

In no way is a SOF (generally speaking) a way of saying you are not a good enough Christian and I think the assumption that it is is "icky.";)

 

:iagree: Thank you for posting this.

[SnMomof7]

And then there are Christians who like to hang out with diverse groups of people ;).

 

Hey, I'd be happy to find almost ANY homeschooling group that wasn't 1.5 hours away :D!

 

Ah, living in the boonies....

[pgr]

There is a poster pqr who IMO, would NEVER have agreed with that statement.

 

When you read your name quickly, it looks like pqr.

 

Thank you for clarifying - I was starting to feel a little weird...:)

[weaver_67579]

that I love.

 

I've seen secular groups (i.e., a group of people who aren't meeting together for any religious reason at all, even though some, or all, of the members have strongly held religious beliefs) be openly hostile to Christians who come in and who say anything the least bit spiritual. That exclusivity door swings both ways (even when the group claims to be "inclusive," which isn't a term I'm overly fond of, anyway)

 

 

Most secular groups I have been in/am in have strict no-preaching rules. While I am Christian-I don't really want to be approached about religious matters while at the group. This way everyone can feel safe to belong without getting a tract and reecommenced Bible readings (Someone from a Christian group sent me such things since I didn't line up exactly with her views-I personally found that offensive-Like at 40yo I am too dumb to make up my own mind or something.) Anyway, our group is pretty strict on this, but several of us have had conversations about our various faiths-or lack of, but we consider ourselves friends and they were not part of a meeting or anything where new people we did not know well were present. I think it has to be taken in context. Personal conversations between friends that are mutually consenting to talk about it-fine. Over the top religious comments out of context-not cool. We do have a code of conduct-not a SOF. Pretty much anyone is welcome as long as you are respectful of other in the group. Our COOP sticks to subjects not likely to cause issues due to differences in belief so far. As we get bigger, we may just offer more than one class per time period per age so if there is something that say-deals with evolution-you could pick the other class instead. Of the members I know well there are United Methodist (me), Roman Catholic, LDS, non-denominational Christian, Baptist, and agnostic-and likely many more that I don't know well enough to know where they attend/don't attend.

 

 

At any rate, even though I'm a Christian and could sign most SOFs, I wouldn't join a group that required one. I'm obstinate like that.:D

 

 

Amen-I won't now either

[dangermom]

Well, but what if someone disagrees with you about the definition of the word "Christian"? Would it be okay to say "This is a Christian homeschooling group, and we define 'Christian' as those who can assent to the Nicene Creed"? That way they'd be using the word they thought was appropriate, but being up-front about what they meant by it . . .

 

But that definition doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The Nicene Creed isn't in the Bible. It isn't scripture. It wasn't formulated for centuries after the life of Christ (so were pre-Nicene Christians not really Christians?). I don't get why it should be the standard. The dictionary definition for the noun Christian is a person who believes in Jesus Christ. Why does it have to get more complicated than that?

 

I'm happy to agree to disagree, up to a point--I'm an easy-going, hard to offend person. But when people start defining the very general word Christian as meaning "my kind of Christian, but nobody else," then I think that's wrong and exclusionary. And with SoF's, that is very often exactly what is meant--the term Christian gets defined down into this very narrow slice of the very diverse people all over the world who call themselves Christians.

 

Again, however, I don't like the idea of SoF's at all, no matter the group--I prefer a straightforward inclusion of all homeschoolers that doesn't leave anyone out.

[AngelBee]

Why is it that all the academic co-ops around here have one that excludes families who believe in additional scripture? I am so frustrated right now! Sheesh! We are all Christians. What is the big deal? It makes me feel like they see us as riffraff who would somehow pollute their children.

 

Thanks for listening.

:grouphug:

[AngelBee]

And then there are Christians who like to hang out with diverse groups of people ;).

 

:iagree:The homeschooling group that I am a part of has no religious preferences. We are mostly Christian, but everyone is super accepting and tolerent of eachothers beliefs.

 

One of my closest friends in the group is an Athiest and helped plan a Christmas party for the group. :)

[HRAAB]

Why is it that all the academic co-ops around here have one that excludes families who believe in additional scripture? I am so frustrated right now! Sheesh! We are all Christians. What is the big deal? It makes me feel like they see us as riffraff who would somehow pollute their children.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

I really, really understand how you feel. I've faced the same thing with a large homeschool group in my area that advertises for 'Christians' but then excludes several denominations by their SOF. However, where it's an academic co-op, don't you want to know the religious (Christian) perspective from which they'll be teaching? I don't like SOFs, but with a co-op I rather look at it as a way to protect me so I don't get my kids into something that I'm going to have issues with down the road. For instance I wouldn't want my children in a science co-op that's teaching YEC. I'd rather see a SOF - in that instance - that states Genesis is taken literally. I do feel differently about homeschool groups that are primarily for play dates and field trips, though.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I am so happy to have belong to a truly inclusive group. It was not secular as in "no religious discussion allowed." Proselytizing was not looked kindly upon as we tried to be respectful that many faiths and views are represented. Many devout Christians of different flavors have been members as were Jewish, Muslim, Hindu families and athiests and agnostics. But that didn't mean we couldn't discuss religion. In fact, we have had Jewish families invite us over for Sukkot and Hannakuh - explaining the meanings of the feasts. Our Muslim friends wished us a Merry Christmas and we wished them Eid Saeed. This wasn't a co op, but a support group. In this group, many of us have formed clubs to meet certain academic needs (science clubs, history clubs, book clubs, etc.) We had an "If you build it, they will come" philosophy. If you want something for your child, start it and invite families to join you. Unfortunately, this group disbanded mostly because the core families graduated their children and the younger families weren't taking up the standard (and we couldn't find meeting places anymore.)

 

Now, this group has been replaced by an online only group that has served as a clearinghouse for information for people in the area. It is inclusive, but there are members who don't seem to respect that not all homeschoolers are conservative, evangelical Christians. No biggie - it is only online communication. I have used this group to advertise classes and clubs I was starting.

 

I have also belonged to a Catholic group that did not have a statement of faith and did not require anyone to be Catholic to join. They had activities that were definitely of a Catholic nature (a visit to a shrine and prayer service), but they also had activities that would appeal to a wider audience (visit to an organic farm.) The non-Catholics simply would not choose to attend the activities that would not apply to them. It met the needs of the Catholic familes without excluding anyone.

[HRAAB]

I am so happy to have belong to a truly inclusive group. It was not secular as in "no religious discussion allowed." Proselytizing was not looked kindly upon as we tried to be respectful that many faiths and views are represented. Many devout Christians of different flavors have been members as were Jewish, Muslim, Hindu families and athiests and agnostics. But that didn't mean we couldn't discuss religion. In fact, we have had Jewish families invite us over for Sukkot and Hannakuh - explaining the meanings of the feasts. Our Muslim friends wished us a Merry Christmas and we wished them Eid Saeed. This wasn't a co op, but a support group. In this group, many of us have formed clubs to meet certain academic needs (science clubs, history clubs, book clubs, etc.) We had an "If you build it, they will come" philosophy. If you want something for your child, start it and invite families to join you. Unfortunately, this group disbanded mostly because the core families graduated their children and the younger families weren't taking up the standard (and we couldn't find meeting places anymore.)

 

Now, this group has been replaced by an online only group that has served as a clearinghouse for information for people in the area. It is inclusive, but there are members who don't seem to respect that not all homeschoolers are conservative, evangelical Christians. No biggie - it is only online communication. I have used this group to advertise classes and clubs I was starting.

 

I have also belonged to a Catholic group that did not have a statement of faith and did not require anyone to be Catholic to join. They had activities that were definitely of a Catholic nature (a visit to a shrine and prayer service), but they also had activities that would appeal to a wider audience (visit to an organic farm.) The non-Catholics simply would not choose to attend the activities that would not apply to them. It met the needs of the Catholic familes without excluding anyone.

 

I would love to have available to me a group like the one you describe.

[kalphs]

Why is it that all the academic co-ops around here have one that excludes families who believe in additional scripture? I am so frustrated right now! Sheesh! We are all Christians. What is the big deal? It makes me feel like they see us as riffraff who would somehow pollute their children.

 

Thanks for listening.

:grouphug:

[Slartibartfast]

:iagree:

 

I got coffee up my nose. :(

 

That might be a bit confusing. :lol:

[kalphs]

Maybe we should all get together in our general areas and make our own WTM co-op. ;)

:grouphug:

:iagree:

[FaithManor]

Wow! I was reading through the responses and the pgr/pqr thing transported me into the Twilight Zone in which there was an alternate, parallel, universe called opposite world!

 

It might be helpful if pgr were to add something to her name so that we don't have utter confusion. I hope I am not being rude in suggesting this. I don't mean to be.

 

Faith

[Slartibartfast]

Wow! I was reading through the responses and the pgr/pqr thing transported me into the Twilight Zone in which there was an alternate, parallel, universe called opposite world!

 

It might be helpful if pgr were to add something to her name so that we don't have utter confusion. I hope I am not being rude in suggesting this. I don't mean to be.

 

Faith

 

Maybe one of them should sport a goatee?? HAHAHAHA!

 

I am sorry pgr, welcome! I am sure we can manage to keep you two seperate. :)

[simka2]

I think the earth just shifted a bit.

 

pgr, welcome to the boards.

 

 

:lol::lol::lol::D Yes and welcome!!!

[Homemama2]

Two families do not a co-op make.

 

This is true. But I bet you could have fun together anyway. And, FWIW, the co-op that I joined this year started out with 3 families in someone's house. 6 years later....it has grown so much that it has split into 4 separate co-ops over three neighboring counties (the one I'm in has 65 families....so think how many families there are between the 4 of them).

So don't give up hope if you don't have alot of people to start with!! :001_smile:

[pgr]

The very strange thing about all this is that I am, in general, a rather quiet, tactful and non-confrontational person.

 

I have been learning to spin (yarn), and recently posted a few questions on a spinning forum. I was very surprised to get a bunch of responses saying "well, with your initials, one would expect...." :001_huh:

 

Now this.

 

I guess I have me some *special* initials!

 

(Off to go look for a goatee :D)

 

And sorry for the inadvertent mini-hijack of this post!

[Carol in Cal.]

Here's my problem with that. The OP and I are both LDS. We are Christians. LDS is a subset of Christian. Protestants don't get to own the word Christian, any more than LDS folks or Catholic folks or JWs do. They are all subsets of the overarching word Christian, which simply means someone who believes in Jesus Christ as Savior. So when you have a group that says it's Christian, then it seems wrong and mean to exclude other Christians. Perhaps if people would call themselves "The Conservative Protestant Homeschooling Group," it would help. If there was a homeschooling group just for Mormons, it would be called that, not the more general term.

 

Now personally I get a really icky feeling about exclusive homeschooling groups, and I don't join them.

 

You know, I'm not really all that old, and when I was a Freshman in high school I knew a lot of LDS members. They did not consider themselves Christian. They did not call themselves Christian. They did not believe that pastors or priest of Christian denominations had any measure of saving truth to convey. They believed that only Mormons had truth and salvation. Thus they identified their faith as a sect.

 

I get an icky feeling about exclusive groups, and sadly many are, but I also don't think that the fairly recent change in the way that Mormons self-identify, as Christian, is entirely convincing. So I am sympathetic to the original group, if it defines Christianity as something that includes the Christian denominations but excludes the Christian or psuedo-Christian sects. There is a valid reason for a SOF, and it is to make sure that certain broad doctrinal teachings are held by all teachers and not contradicted by any participants.

 

Full disclosure: I was in a secular (not inclusive but secular) group for a long time. It was almost forbidden to mention it if you had a faith commitment. I later also found and joined a local Christian group, that included a lot of denominations--Catholic, non-denom, Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, and Pentecostal, to name a few. I looked at one or two Christian oriented groups that were more narrow, and didn't feel comfortable in them. I believe, though, that annoying though they could be, they had a right to exist. One was mostly from one big church, and they all used Abeka all the time, and pretty much everything else was 'bad'. Not a good fit, but they had a right to this.

[simka2]

Why is it that all the academic co-ops around here have one that excludes families who believe in additional scripture? I am so frustrated right now! Sheesh! We are all Christians. What is the big deal? It makes me feel like they see us as riffraff who would somehow pollute their children.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Maybe, you could just sign it and let them know you Don't believe in additional scripture. You just think their missing some. ;)

 

Truthfully, I'm saying that somewhat jokingly, but that is the flipside of this coin.

[Xuzi]

You know, I'm not really all that old, and when I was a Freshman in high school I knew a lot of LDS members. They did not consider themselves Christian. They did not call themselves Christian. They did not believe that pastors or priest of Christian denominations had any measure of saving truth to convey. They believed that only Mormons had truth and salvation. Thus they identified their faith as a sect.

 

I get an icky feeling about exclusive groups, and sadly many are, but I also don't think that the fairly recent change in the way that Mormons self-identify, as Christian, is entirely convincing. So I am sympathetic to the original group, if it defines Christianity as something that includes the Christian denominations but excludes the Christian or psuedo-Christian sects. There is a valid reason for a SOF, and it is to make sure that certain broad doctrinal teachings are held by all teachers and not contradicted by any participants.

 

Full disclosure: I was in a secular (not inclusive but secular) group for a long time. It was almost forbidden to mention it if you had a faith commitment. I later also found and joined a local Christian group, that included a lot of denominations--Catholic, non-denom, Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, and Pentecostal, to name a few. I looked at one or two Christian oriented groups that were more narrow, and didn't feel comfortable in them. I believe, though, that annoying though they could be, they had a right to exist. One was mostly from one big church, and they all used Abeka all the time, and pretty much everything else was 'bad'. Not a good fit, but they had a right to this.

I come from a long line of LDS members, and we've always identified as Christian. :confused: I find it odd that the kids at your high school didn't. (not saying I don't believe you, just that I find it really odd that an LDS person could say they're not Christian, unless they meant they're not "traditional Christian")

[stansclan89]

You know, I'm not really all that old, and when I was a Freshman in high school I knew a lot of LDS members. They did not consider themselves Christian. They did not call themselves Christian. They did not believe that pastors or priest of Christian denominations had any measure of saving truth to convey. They believed that only Mormons had truth and salvation. Thus they identified their faith as a sect.

 

Hmm...I don't know where you grew up, but...I am 41 yo and have always been LDS and we have always identified ourselves as a Christian sect. Not sure why a sect could not be Christian. Maybe you could enlighten me? And every church has some portion of truth to it.

[Slartibartfast]

I come from a long line of LDS members, and we've always identified as Christian. :confused: I find it odd that the kids at your high school didn't. (not saying I don't believe you, just that I find it really odd that an LDS person could say they're not Christian, unless they meant they're not "traditional Christian")

 

:iagree:

 

I have always heard LDS people define themseles as Christian.

[HRAAB]

I come from a long line of LDS members, and we've always identified as Christian. :confused: I find it odd that the kids at your high school didn't. (not saying I don't believe you, just that I find it really odd that an LDS person could say they're not Christian, unless they meant they're not "traditional Christian")

 

My great-grandmother was LDS as are some of my extended family today. She converted while in England (I believe), came to America, married in 1865 and they immediately went west to Utah Territory. I have inherited quite a few of her letters and poetry. I can tell you (anyone caring to read) that she always identified herself as a Christian as have all my LDS relatives.

 

By the way, I'm not LDS. Some of the family left the LDS church and converted to Catholicism, and that's where I come in!

[Xuzi]

My great-grandmother was LDS as are some of my extended family today. She converted while in England (I believe), came to America, married in 1865 and they immediately went west to Utah Territory. I have inherited quite a few of her letters and poetry. I can tell you (anyone caring to read) that she always identified herself as a Christian as have all my LDS relatives.

 

By the way, I'm not LDS. Some of the family left the LDS church and converted to Catholicism, and that's where I come in!

Hey, we might be related! :D Some of my family converted in England around the same time and traveled to Utah soon afterward. (not asking you to dig out a family tree for me or anything, I just always get excited when I find someone, LDS or not, with a similar family history to me)

[Forget-Me-Not]

born-and-raised LDS here and the LDS church definitely defines itself as 'Christian'. In fact, the entire name of the church is 'The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". I've always always always heard other members define themselves as Christian and I've always done so myself.

 

Now truthfully, if someone asks me what religion I am or what church I go to, I do say that I am 'LDS' or 'Mormon', but that's mainly to specify which

'flavor' of Christianity I belong to. Just like someone might say they were Baptist or Episcopalian or Catholic or Nazarene or Pentecostal or whatever.

 

I know that some churches refuse to acknowledge us as Christian because we don't recognize the Nicene creed. But our entire religion is based on and around Jesus Christ. :001_smile:

[snipsnsnailsx5]

It makes me even angrier, though, when people assume that different religions don't have ANything in common with eachother and couldn't possibly all be part of a co-op together.

I can see things like Bible studies being a bit complicated with mixed religions. However, homeschooling groups, really?

 

I am LDS (Mormom) and I've yet to meet other LDS families in the various homeschooling co-ops I've tried out. Each has had a statement of faith.

I belong to several groups of mixed religions. We get a long just fine. I don't get the idea that different reglions would have nothing in common and so such a group wouldn't work. Hello...homeschooling...that's a pretty big thing to have in common. ;) I know I could personally talk about homeschooling for hours without ever touching on religion.

And when religion has come up in some way or form during discussings, I just politely listen.

 

Its pretty hard to find a place where everyone shares your same beliefs and ideas. Sometimes you just have to find common ground and learn to get along. ;)

[shinyhappypeople]

I come from a long line of LDS members, and we've always identified as Christian. :confused: I find it odd that the kids at your high school didn't. (not saying I don't believe you, just that I find it really odd that an LDS person could say they're not Christian, unless they meant they're not "traditional Christian")

 

This was my experience with my Mormon friends in high school. THEY were the Christians, I was the Gentile.

 

So, from an LDS perspective, is a group run by Gentiles who self-identify as Christians REALLY a Christian group?

[snipsnsnailsx5]

We struggle with that too. The problem for us is that the Christian (meaning super evangelical with a nice evangelical SOF) group around here is the ONLY group in town. Just starting our own group would leave us with a group of two families, I'm guessing. I wish that the statement of faith for a Christian group read something like:

 

1. I believe the Bible to be the word of God, in as much as it is translated correctly. (Rather than I believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God, and the only scripture that He has given.)

 

2. I believe in God the Father, His son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. (Rather than I believe in the triune God: God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.)

 

and so on....

 

:iagree:

Sounds like my kind of group :)

[snipsnsnailsx5]

I am not a Christian. I am a Atheist. I do belong to both my local homeschool groups. One is Christian, the other is everyone is welcome.

 

I am comfortable being part of the Christian group. I do admit I sometimes, on the inside raise my eyebrows at some things. But I enjoy the chance to be with a wide selection of people. To personally know some people who aren't atheist. When studying history, or just when the subject comes up to be able to say to my boys, "Well Coach C. (Who is a minister) believes this is true. I do not".

 

Gives us a chance to learn how to handle ourselves in different situations. If it wasn't for this Christian group by boys would never be exposed to anyone who prays. Just basic rules of respect to others. Take you hat off when praying. Bow your head. Just learning that we can all get along. And we do all get along.

 

Considering how often people on this board complain about people and homeschool groups fighting, I am pleasantly surprised at how well everyone gets along.

 

If a event is organzied by one group, the event is almost always posted on the other message board.

 

I have been on several home school field trips, meetings, clubs, ... I have never seen anything but respect between people. I can't even say if it's respect between Christians and Atheists, Pagans, Muslims,... Because for the most part unless someones says "I am XYZ" then I don't know.

 

Some non Atheists are part of the Christian group because they like the fact it's very structured. Some Christians are part of the Secular group since they like the fact it's unstructured.

 

:iagree::iagree:

[Britomart]

But that definition doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The Nicene Creed isn't in the Bible. It isn't scripture. It wasn't formulated for centuries after the life of Christ (so were pre-Nicene Christians not really Christians?). I don't get why it should be the standard. The dictionary definition for the noun Christian is a person who believes in Jesus Christ. Why does it have to get more complicated than that?

 

Okay, I'll give it a try, though I'm something less than a theologian, so forgive me where I fall short. It was formulated (and you're right, it took several hundred years to get there) because the experience of the church was that Scripture was capable of being interpreted wrongly. You had, for example, folks who said that Jesus was simply a man, and not God as well. Or that he was simply God looking like a man. Because of these heresies, the church leadership realized that they needed an agreed-upon statement of the correct way to interpret the Bible. To take a totally ridiculous example, you could have someone read the Bible and decide that it meant he (the reader) was the reincarnation of Moses. :) Most of the readings weren't that far off, but there was enough room for human error and it was causing enough trouble that the church fathers got together and (over a period of many years, with lots of prayer) pounded out the creeds.

 

The creeds don't spell everything out, obviously, but it gave what you could call the "box of orthodoxy", i.e., "here are the outside lines sketching in correct doctrine. You can disagree within these lines, but these parts we are absolutely certain about." Things like "Christ is of one being with the Father, begotten, not made", etc. So the Creeds were guidelines established by the (at that time) undivided church about how to interpret the revelation they'd been given. I think the "undivided" part matters a lot, because even later, after the Great Schism, you had things that both sides still absolutely agreed upon and that absolutely identified them as Christians.

 

So, essentially, I'd say it matters because "believe in Jesus Christ" can mean different things to different people, and the Creed gives us a place to see if we mean the same thing by it. (Not that we have to mean the same thing in order to get along, especially in a homeschooling group! But it'd be good to be able to articulate our differences if we're going to have a conversation about it, you know?)

 

I'm happy to agree to disagree, up to a point--I'm an easy-going, hard to offend person. But when people start defining the very general word Christian as meaning "my kind of Christian, but nobody else," then I think that's wrong and exclusionary. And with SoF's, that is very often exactly what is meant--the term Christian gets defined down into this very narrow slice of the very diverse people all over the world who call themselves Christians.

 

I can see what you mean - I've had to deal with people who think Catholics aren't Christian, for example (I disagree) - and it can be unpleasant. However, I wouldn't want them to lie to me and say they agreed with me in order to make me feel good. There's no possibility of dialogue there. I'd rather they disagreed openly with me. Even though I think they're wrong, I'm glad they're able to say what they believe, and I'd rather they follow their conscience than try to make me happy.

 

So, yes, it's exclusionary . . . but all definitions are. By being an American, I'm not a Canadian. By being a woman, I'm not a man. Now, we can disagree on the definitions . . . but I just wish that disagreement weren't automatically offensive. I mean, I understand the disagreement is unpleasant, I just can't see it being wrong.

 

Again, however, I don't like the idea of SoF's at all, no matter the group--I prefer a straightforward inclusion of all homeschoolers that doesn't leave anyone out.

 

If I had to choose, I probably would too. I'm not disagreeing with you there. It's the more interesting experience, being with a diverse group.

[LittleIzumi]

Yeah when I hear "statement of faith" I'm really hearing "statement of exclusion". That is the prerogative of the group, but it isn't an attitude I'd want to be associated with.

:iagree:

 

I can see how it would be weird if there were religion co-op classes taught, but other than that.... :confused: I'm in a regular open HSing group here. No SOF, members who are devout religious people & those on the complete other end of the spectrum, and we all get along just fine.

[Sara R]

I don't like statements of faith. I would much rather a statement of expected behaviors and other policies to keep everyone happy such as not debating evolution or religion IMHO.

 

:iagree:

 

A Code of Conduct, not a Statement of Faith. I can understand not wanting your kid to hang around with someone who swears, for example. But I WANT my kid to hang out with others who believe differently than him. It's important for him to learn that different people have different viewpoints, but we have other important values in common and we can get along.

 

If you are afraid of proselyting, then make a rule against that in the Code of Conduct.

[dangermom]

This was my experience with my Mormon friends in high school. THEY were the Christians, I was the Gentile.

 

So, from an LDS perspective, is a group run by Gentiles who self-identify as Christians REALLY a Christian group?

 

Yes, other Christians are still Christians; it's just that from our perspective, they don't have all the information we do. Pretty much what you guys think about us, I should think, only no LDS folks would say that other Christians are going to hell.

[Veritaserum]

Yes, other Christians are still Christians; it's just that from our perspective, they don't have all the information we do. Pretty much what you guys think about us, I should think, only no LDS folks would say that other Christians are going to hell.

 

Or that they aren't "real" Christians.

 

To the OP: :grouphug:.

[lionfamily1999]

delete! I wasn't going to comment here :lol: How did that happen?!?

[dangermom]

delete! I wasn't going to comment here :lol: How did that happen?!?

 

It's not the same. But I also don't want to hijack this thread. We just had a huge long thread about LDS beliefs, so you would probably find the info there, or you could PM me, or start a new thread maybe? :001_smile:

 

...wow, good trick there. When I started, that said something quite different.

[Xuzi]

This was my experience with my Mormon friends in high school. THEY were the Christians, I was the Gentile.

 

So, from an LDS perspective, is a group run by Gentiles who self-identify as Christians REALLY a Christian group?

Wow, you had some rude LDS friends at your school! :001_huh: The LDS church accepts the validity of anyone's claim to Christianity regardless of whether we believe with their doctrine or not. It's not up to us to judge who's claim to a relationship with Christ is "valid" or not.

[phathui5]

The Nicene Creed would give Mormons a problem, actually.

 

Our local homeschool group has a SOF, but no one is required to sign it, which is the way I prefer it.

 

Interesting. What part?

[Karenciavo]

*checks user name*

 

*feels faint*

 

:001_huh::lol:

 

Check again.

[Karenciavo]

Wow! I think this makes some really uncharitable assumptions.

 

IMO, a SOF is not intended to outline what one thinks all Christians should be, think, believe and do. It's just a way of saying, "We are a group who does believe this." It doesn't mean we think you should believe this; just that we do and this is the identity of this group.

 

In no way is a SOF (generally speaking) a way of saying you are not a good enough Christian and I think the assumption that it is is "icky.";)

 

Thank you.

[Xuzi]

Interesting. What part?

The part where it says that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one person. We believe they are three, seperate personages, who are completely united in purpose.

[Kate CA]

You know, I'm not really all that old, and when I was a Freshman in high school I knew a lot of LDS members. They did not consider themselves Christian. They did not call themselves Christian. They did not believe that pastors or priest of Christian denominations had any measure of saving truth to convey. They believed that only Mormons had truth and salvation. Thus they identified their faith as a sect.

 

 

 

This was my experience too. I remember the same kinds of things you mentioned. I remember the LDS kids in my high school telling me that the Christian church had lost the truth and that effectively Joseph Smith had found it. I remember that we were NOT considered "the same" in their eyes or even saved. And I am only 40!

[Britomart]

The part where it says that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one person. We believe they are three, seperate personages, who are completely united in purpose.

 

fwiw, it says that they are one being (homousios - and forgive my bad spelling, I just remember how the word sounds) but three persons.

 

ETA: I'm not saying you're mistaken about whether or not you believe it, just providing the actual wording of the creed. :)

Edited February 12, 2011 by Britomart

[Xuzi]

This was my experience too. I remember the same kinds of things you mentioned. I remember the LDS kids in my high school telling me that the Christian church had lost the truth and that effectively Joseph Smith had found it. I remember that we were NOT considered "the same" in their eyes or even saved. And I am only 40!

I'm really sorry that was your experience. :( I hope to raise my kids to be a bit more tactful in addressing our disagreements with mainstream Christianity (not using "less than" or "better than" or "gentile" or anything like that). I have had many many non-LDS friends in my life that I have been able to have honest and insightful religious conversations with. Often my faith in the Lord has been boulstered by their Testimonies of their experiences with the Him via Scripture study and service in their various churches. I have learned much (and my kids can learn much) from members of other denominations when we've approached eachother from a place of love, even with our theological differences.

[silliness7]

I pretty much agree with LidiyaDawn.

 

I do not think that SOF are in tended to pass judgement, but rather carefully outline the beliefs of a particular organization so that everyone goes in with their eyes open and can make an informed choice about whether this is the place for them. I do realize that different groups of people self-identify as "Christians" and that their beliefs may not line up with some group's in the definition of the term Christian. I am not passing judgment on whether they themselves are or are not Christian - just saying that our opinions differ on what that term means. Since it seems that society uses the same term to describe a wide variety of religious views, then a statement of faith becomes necessary to outline what exactly a particular group means when they identify themselves as "Christian". Since they are self-identifying by their own belief, it is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black to say that they can't use the term to describe themselves within their own definition of the term?? :confused: I have never seen a statement of faith worded as "If you don't believe..., you can't join." They always say something like "We believe..." which is their right to define how they self-indentify, if I am reading this thread correctly. I don't take it as "this statement of faith is the only definition of being a Christian", just that "this statement of faith is what being a Christian means to this particular group". Again, necessary because the term has different meanings to different people, which is supported by the comments in this thread.

 

Since a large part of my reason to homeschool is a desire to educate my children with a Biblical-world view (and I will admit mine is a pretty conservative, Protestant version of Biblical), in an educational setting I seek out families with a like-mindedness as to what that means. I do consider my faith an important to every part of my life, including the way I school; it isn't just something you compartmentalize and only consider during Bible study time or when you are in church. It affects how I look at the world and I hope to pass that same understanding on to my children. It does not mean I shelter them from other views and ideas (although mine are still fairly young so I am still protective of what they are exposed to), but rather that we talk about it, evaluate it it, and compare it to what we believe is the truth of Scripture. I am friends with a wide variety of people from all religious backgrounds and belief systems; socially I enjoy spending time with people who are different learning about their views and why they believe the way they do. That does not mean that I will willingly give someone whose beliefs differ radically from mine the authority to educate my children in matters I feel should be presented through a Biblical-mindset. And I do include some of the groups who self-identify as "Christian" in that category.

 

Excellent post!! I agree wholeheartedly and with LidiyaDawn as well. (ETA: and pqr as well :-)

You can't very well put your entire statement of faith into your title. That would be a little cumbersome. The SOF is helpful for both parties to find a good match. I personally find education to be a religious endeavor as much as going to church. Socializing with people of diverse beliefs (whether they self-identify as Christian or not) is quite different from giving people authority to educate my children. I am very exclusive in whom I give that power to and I don't apologize for it.

Edited February 12, 2011 by silliness7

[In2why]

Maybe, you could just sign it and let them know you Don't believe in additional scripture. You just think their missing some. ;)

 

Truthfully, I'm saying that somewhat jokingly, but that is the flipside of this coin.

 

 

Quite a few people do that in the group where I live. The one homeschool group within driving distance has a SOF and makes it clear that it isn't just Christian, but fundamentalist Christian.

Yet I know at least 4 families who have signed even though they don't believe what they are signing, so they can participate in the group activities and their kids can socialize.

 

I have thought about it, and I am a Christian, but not a fundamentalist, and just can't sign it. I am wavering though because being large they have great co-ops for the arts, and opportunities for my kids to be with other kids.