Guest Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Why is it that all the academic co-ops around here have one that excludes families who believe in additional scripture? I am so frustrated right now! Sheesh! We are all Christians. What is the big deal? It makes me feel like they see us as riffraff who would somehow pollute their children. Thanks for listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Uuuuuughhhhhh!!!!! :glare: :grouphug:'s! Just tell them, "Your sufferin' for Jesus!" ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Ah, are we going to do this again? I do sympathize. I've been on the wrong end of an SOF so I do truly sympathize. That said, search SOF and you'll see numerous heated threads about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 It makes me feel like they see us as riffraff who would somehow pollute their children. Thanks for listening. Now, imagine you are not Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Why not start your own groups rather than trying to get into groups that are for people who disagree with you? It is a real question, I am not trying to be snarky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I can imagine being a non-Christian and how over the top irritating it can be. Maybe we should all get together in our general areas and make our own WTM co-op. ;) I hope not another BTDT heated thread. I did not mean to start anything. I was just so irked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I can imagine being a non-Christian and how over the top irritating it can be. Maybe we should all get together in our general areas and make our own WTM co-op. ;) That would be lovely. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 That would be lovely. :D Oh, wouldn't it though. Unfortunately for me I think I'm up here all by my lonesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother Superior Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) Why not start your own groups rather than trying to get into groups that are for people who disagree with you? It is a real question, I am not trying to be snarky. I think the OP is Mormon, and I assume there aren't a lot of Mormon homeschoolers where she lives. My friend and I are the only Catholic homeschoolers within an 80 mile radius. Two families do not a co-op make. We used to have some Mormon homeschoolers around here-- maybe we could have formed a "Not Protestant" group, if they had stuck around. But I for one am not partial to HS groups that deliberately exclude others. Edited February 11, 2011 by Mother Superior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfatherslily Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I can imagine being a non-Christian and how over the top irritating it can be. Maybe we should all get together in our general areas and make our own WTM co-op. ;) We'd probably need a dedicated Moderator for every branch... Someone to turn out the lights and shoo everyone home when the discussions got too messy!!:D I'm sorry you're having a hard time finding a group. I didn't join my own church's group because I felt they simply required too much, even though I agree with their SOF. I was able to find a Christian group that posted a SOF, but didn't ask members to sign it. We have lots of group choices here, though, since it's required by state law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxanne23 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I belong to an inclusive co-op and I love them. It is a truly welcoming atmosphere. I believe we have some catholic members, not sure about mormon. Honestly, it doesn't come up that much. It is the only inclusive group in the area, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I can imagine being a non-Christian and how over the top irritating it can be. Maybe we should all get together in our general areas and make our own WTM co-op. ;) I hope not another BTDT heated thread. I did not mean to start anything. I was just so irked. What is possibly more frustrating is being a Christian by your own personal standards and still not able to sign it with any integrity.:confused::lurk5: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I truly wish that groups billing themselves as "non-denominational Christian" would keep their SOF's to what is contained in the Nicene Creed. If it's any more detailed than that, kindly call yourself a "non-denominational Protestant" or "Reformed" or "YEC's only" or what have you group. :glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother Superior Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I truly wish that groups billing themselves as "non-denominational Christian" would keep their SOF's to what is contained in the Nicene Creed. If it's any more detailed than that, kindly call yourself a "non-denominational Protestant" or "Reformed" or "YEC's only" or what have you group. :glare: The Nicene Creed would give Mormons a problem, actually. Our local homeschool group has a SOF, but no one is required to sign it, which is the way I prefer it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujsky Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Now, imagine you are not Christian. :iagree: What she said :D I'm sorry you're going through this. No one likes to be excluded. I've been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I think the OP is Mormon, and I assume there aren't a lot of Mormon homeschoolers where she lives. My friend and I are the only Catholic homeschoolers within an 80 mile radius. Two families do not a co-op make. We used to have some Mormon homeschoolers around here-- maybe we could have formed a "Not Protestant" group, if they had stuck around. But I for one am not partial to HS groups that deliberately exclude others. You wouldn't have to form a hs group that excluded others. If you start it you can include anybody that you want to. I'm Lutheran, I wouldn't go to a Catholic or a Mormon group and expect to be a fit with them. I don't think they should have to change just so I could be a part of their group. Yes it is work to start a group and they have done that work to make their group what they want it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Philosophically, I don't have a problem with people spending time with others of like mind. If a group of Christian homeschoolers wants to meet with other Christian homeschoolers, they should be able to do that without anyone else taking offense. But what I prefer is a statement that clearly describes the group ("We are a Christian group; we pray at the beginning of our meetings; here is our statement of faith, which most of us will agree with..."), and then let non-Christians (or Christians who believe slightly differently) decide whether or not to participate. (I would also expect folks who don't agree completely with the group's beliefs to not come in and try to change things.) I've seen secular groups (i.e., a group of people who aren't meeting together for any religious reason at all, even though some, or all, of the members have strongly held religious beliefs) be openly hostile to Christians who come in and who say anything the least bit spiritual. That exclusivity door swings both ways (even when the group claims to be "inclusive," which isn't a term I'm overly fond of, anyway). At any rate, even though I'm a Christian and could sign most SOFs, I wouldn't join a group that required one. I'm obstinate like that.:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Philosophically, I don't have a problem with people spending time with others of like mind. If a group of Christian homeschoolers wants to meet with other Christian homeschoolers, they should be able to do that without anyone else taking offense. But what I prefer is a statement that clearly describes the group ("We are a Christian group; we pray at the beginning of our meetings; here is our statement of faith, which most of us will agree with..."), and then let non-Christians (or Christians who believe slightly differently) decide whether or not to participate. (I would also expect folks who don't agree completely with the group's beliefs to not come in and try to change things.) Our group does exactly what you've described there ~ it's a Christian group, and does have a SOF, but signing that isn't required to join... just to agree that you'll respect that the group is Christian in nature/etc etc....and those who don't sign the SOF can't take leadership positions - but more than likely, someone who didn't agree with the SOF would't WANT those positions. If you weren't a Christian, would you want to lead a meeting with prayer? Probably not. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 We're in a homeschool group and we do co-op classes. MY suggestion is to find a secular co-op/hs group. That's what I did. In fact, the name of our hs group has "Interfaith" in it. I was like, "Bingo! That one will work!" :D We've been in that group for 2 years and we like it. Like someone else said, there are lots of old threads about this. We're very religious and I avoid the religious-themed groups or those requiring a statement of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonNative Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Why is it that all the academic co-ops around here have one that excludes families who believe in additional scripture? I am so frustrated right now! Sheesh! We are all Christians. What is the big deal? It makes me feel like they see us as riffraff who would somehow pollute their children. Thanks for listening. :grouphug: To many, "Christian" is NOT a blanket term. I don't know what your faith is, but I highly doubt a Muslim would send their kids to your church/organization. Why? Because in a sense it would pollute their children. Muslims call themselves Christian. You won't see JW's sending their kids to a Catholic church either. JW's say they are Christian as well. Add'l scripture is also not defined the same by some. Additional scripture is usually considered books removed from the Bible at Reformation-historical writings from Biblical times. Additional scripture is generally not considered words added to the Bible 100 years ago by someone who did not live in biblical times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonNative Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 You wouldn't have to form a hs group that excluded others. If you start it you can include anybody that you want to. I'm Lutheran, I wouldn't go to a Catholic or a Mormon group and expect to be a fit with them. I don't think they should have to change just so I could be a part of their group. Yes it is work to start a group and they have done that work to make their group what they want it to be. :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 :grouphug: To many, "Christian" is NOT a blanket term. I don't know what your faith is, but I highly doubt a Muslim would send their kids to your church/organization. Why? Because in a sense it would pollute their children. Muslims call themselves Christian. You won't see JW's sending their kids to a Catholic church either. JW's say they are Christian as well. Add'l scripture is also not defined the same by some. Additional scripture is usually considered books removed from the Bible at Reformation-historical writings from Biblical times. Additional scripture is generally not considered words added to the Bible 100 years ago by someone who did not live in biblical times. Did you mean Mormons? 'Cause I am pretty sure that Muslims never call themselves Christians!:tongue_smilie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 At any rate, even though I'm a Christian and could sign most SOFs, I wouldn't join a group that required one. I'm obstinate like that.:D What she said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Yeah when I hear "statement of faith" I'm really hearing "statement of exclusion". That is the prerogative of the group, but it isn't an attitude I'd want to be associated with.Me as well. I don't join groups with SoF's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Well, Dh and I are Protestant with a little EO leanings here and there. So guess what...we don't fit in either. There is a Catholic homeschooling group in a city about 1.5 hours from here, but we aren't welcome there either. I haven't found a secular group. Oh well, we are doing just fine without and the kids are thriving so I don't feel we are missing out on anything. Faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lainey Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I think any group can be exclusive even if they are trying to be inclusive. I haven't found a group yet that fits my needs, so we aren't involved in any group right now. It is what it is and I'm okay with that. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Y'know, when SOF stuff comes up with homeschool groups, a lot of people talk about 'excluding' people and 'rejecting' people and such... but when you really think about it, is it really that different than other times that we make choices about whom we are associating? (umm, that sentence seems awkward..but you know what I mean LOL) There's adults in my neighbourhood who gather every weekend in the summer for a beer & bbq night - it's a loud party, lots of drinking & stuff. I don't go hang with them because that's not my thing. I have some friends who go snowshoeing a lot - I haven't tried to join their snowshoe club..because I'm not a snowshoer. There are some groups in town for people of specific religious faiths - and some are even divided by age... I don't go down and want to be a part of the "Young Hindu Ladies" group... because I'm not a young Hindu lady. There are some groups for people of specific ethnic backgrounds... and for participants in specific sports/crafts and driving certain vehicles (vintage car assoc, etc) and so on.... all these groups - they're groups of likeminded people...people with similar interests, goals, past-times, etc... Christian Homeschool Group - a group of Christians who homeschool. If you're not a Christian, how comfortable will you really be in that group? Now if the group presents itself as just the "ThisTown Homeschool Group" - that's different. The connection is specifically homeschooling...not "Christian Homeschoolers" ..... I don't know...just sorta thinking out loud here... our group is the only one in town and is, as I said earlier, open to all (aside from leadership positions) as long as respect for the fact that is IS a Christian group is maintained (and it is very clearly a Christian group - it's in the name, it's in the plans, it's in everything. All very upfront.)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Y'know, when SOF stuff comes up with homeschool groups, a lot of people talk about 'excluding' people and 'rejecting' people and such... but when you really think about it, is it really that different than other times that we make choices about whom we are associating? (umm, that sentence seems awkward..but you know what I mean LOL) There's adults in my neighbourhood who gather every weekend in the summer for a beer & bbq night - it's a loud party, lots of drinking & stuff. I don't go hang with them because that's not my thing. I have some friends who go snowshoeing a lot - I haven't tried to join their snowshoe club..because I'm not a snowshoer. There are some groups in town for people of specific religious faiths - and some are even divided by age... I don't go down and want to be a part of the "Young Hindu Ladies" group... because I'm not a young Hindu lady. There are some groups for people of specific ethnic backgrounds... and for participants in specific sports/crafts and driving certain vehicles (vintage car assoc, etc) and so on.... all these groups - they're groups of likeminded people...people with similar interests, goals, past-times, etc... Christian Homeschool Group - a group of Christians who homeschool. If you're not a Christian, how comfortable will you really be in that group? Now if the group presents itself as just the "ThisTown Homeschool Group" - that's different. The connection is specifically homeschooling...not "Christian Homeschoolers" ..... I don't know...just sorta thinking out loud here... our group is the only one in town and is, as I said earlier, open to all (aside from leadership positions) as long as respect for the fact that is IS a Christian group is maintained (and it is very clearly a Christian group - it's in the name, it's in the plans, it's in everything. All very upfront.)... That is all well and good. But if a group is self-identifying as a Christian group they should be inclusive to ALL who self-identify as Christian. Otherwise the group should identify as Specific Denomination Only Christian Group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Y'know, when SOF stuff comes up with homeschool groups, a lot of people talk about 'excluding' people and 'rejecting' people and such... but when you really think about it, is it really that different than other times that we make choices about whom we are associating? (umm, that sentence seems awkward..but you know what I mean LOL) There's adults in my neighbourhood who gather every weekend in the summer for a beer & bbq night - it's a loud party, lots of drinking & stuff. I don't go hang with them because that's not my thing. I have some friends who go snowshoeing a lot - I haven't tried to join their snowshoe club..because I'm not a snowshoer. There are some groups in town for people of specific religious faiths - and some are even divided by age... I don't go down and want to be a part of the "Young Hindu Ladies" group... because I'm not a young Hindu lady. There are some groups for people of specific ethnic backgrounds... and for participants in specific sports/crafts and driving certain vehicles (vintage car assoc, etc) and so on.... all these groups - they're groups of likeminded people...people with similar interests, goals, past-times, etc... Christian Homeschool Group - a group of Christians who homeschool. If you're not a Christian, how comfortable will you really be in that group? Now if the group presents itself as just the "ThisTown Homeschool Group" - that's different. The connection is specifically homeschooling...not "Christian Homeschoolers" ..... I don't know...just sorta thinking out loud here... our group is the only one in town and is, as I said earlier, open to all (aside from leadership positions) as long as respect for the fact that is IS a Christian group is maintained (and it is very clearly a Christian group - it's in the name, it's in the plans, it's in everything. All very upfront.)... It's disconcerting when it is so-called Christians writing a SOF that delineates what they think all Christians should be, think, believe and do. In practice and actuality, the understanding of scripture of a "Christian" is much wider and broader than many people inclined to insist on a SOF are likely to accept. So, when a SOF is involved, it is like being told: you are not a "good enough" Christian. To a person who self identifies as Christian, that is exclusionary, personal and icky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I don't like statements of faith. I would much rather a statement of expected behaviors and other policies to keep everyone happy such as not debating evolution or religion IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Y'know, when SOF stuff comes up with homeschool groups, a lot of people talk about 'excluding' people and 'rejecting' people and such... but when you really think about it, is it really that different than other times that we make choices about whom we are associating? (umm, that sentence seems awkward..but you know what I mean LOL) There's adults in my neighbourhood who gather every weekend in the summer for a beer & bbq night - it's a loud party, lots of drinking & stuff. I don't go hang with them because that's not my thing. I have some friends who go snowshoeing a lot - I haven't tried to join their snowshoe club..because I'm not a snowshoer. There are some groups in town for people of specific religious faiths - and some are even divided by age... I don't go down and want to be a part of the "Young Hindu Ladies" group... because I'm not a young Hindu lady. There are some groups for people of specific ethnic backgrounds... and for participants in specific sports/crafts and driving certain vehicles (vintage car assoc, etc) and so on.... all these groups - they're groups of likeminded people...people with similar interests, goals, past-times, etc... Christian Homeschool Group - a group of Christians who homeschool. If you're not a Christian, how comfortable will you really be in that group? Now if the group presents itself as just the "ThisTown Homeschool Group" - that's different. The connection is specifically homeschooling...not "Christian Homeschoolers" ..... I don't know...just sorta thinking out loud here... our group is the only one in town and is, as I said earlier, open to all (aside from leadership positions) as long as respect for the fact that is IS a Christian group is maintained (and it is very clearly a Christian group - it's in the name, it's in the plans, it's in everything. All very upfront.)... But, if you wanted to be apart of those things you could. You have a choice. Even most religious institutions will let you attend if you do not agree 100% with their belifes. I do not have any issues brining my Orthodox Bible to the Protestant church we are attending. That's the rub ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhjmom Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Y'know, when SOF stuff comes up with homeschool groups, a lot of people talk about 'excluding' people and 'rejecting' people and such... but when you really think about it, is it really that different than other times that we make choices about whom we are associating? (umm, that sentence seems awkward..but you know what I mean LOL) There's adults in my neighbourhood who gather every weekend in the summer for a beer & bbq night - it's a loud party, lots of drinking & stuff. I don't go hang with them because that's not my thing. I have some friends who go snowshoeing a lot - I haven't tried to join their snowshoe club..because I'm not a snowshoer. There are some groups in town for people of specific religious faiths - and some are even divided by age... I don't go down and want to be a part of the "Young Hindu Ladies" group... because I'm not a young Hindu lady. There are some groups for people of specific ethnic backgrounds... and for participants in specific sports/crafts and driving certain vehicles (vintage car assoc, etc) and so on.... all these groups - they're groups of likeminded people...people with similar interests, goals, past-times, etc... Christian Homeschool Group - a group of Christians who homeschool. If you're not a Christian, how comfortable will you really be in that group? Now if the group presents itself as just the "ThisTown Homeschool Group" - that's different. The connection is specifically homeschooling...not "Christian Homeschoolers" ..... I don't know...just sorta thinking out loud here... our group is the only one in town and is, as I said earlier, open to all (aside from leadership positions) as long as respect for the fact that is IS a Christian group is maintained (and it is very clearly a Christian group - it's in the name, it's in the plans, it's in everything. All very upfront.)... I pretty much agree with LidiyaDawn. I do not think that SOF are in tended to pass judgement, but rather carefully outline the beliefs of a particular organization so that everyone goes in with their eyes open and can make an informed choice about whether this is the place for them. I do realize that different groups of people self-identify as "Christians" and that their beliefs may not line up with some group's in the definition of the term Christian. I am not passing judgment on whether they themselves are or are not Christian - just saying that our opinions differ on what that term means. Since it seems that society uses the same term to describe a wide variety of religious views, then a statement of faith becomes necessary to outline what exactly a particular group means when they identify themselves as "Christian". Since they are self-identifying by their own belief, it is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black to say that they can't use the term to describe themselves within their own definition of the term?? :confused: I have never seen a statement of faith worded as "If you don't believe..., you can't join." They always say something like "We believe..." which is their right to define how they self-indentify, if I am reading this thread correctly. I don't take it as "this statement of faith is the only definition of being a Christian", just that "this statement of faith is what being a Christian means to this particular group". Again, necessary because the term has different meanings to different people, which is supported by the comments in this thread. Since a large part of my reason to homeschool is a desire to educate my children with a Biblical-world view (and I will admit mine is a pretty conservative, Protestant version of Biblical), in an educational setting I seek out families with a like-mindedness as to what that means. I do consider my faith an important to every part of my life, including the way I school; it isn't just something you compartmentalize and only consider during Bible study time or when you are in church. It affects how I look at the world and I hope to pass that same understanding on to my children. It does not mean I shelter them from other views and ideas (although mine are still fairly young so I am still protective of what they are exposed to), but rather that we talk about it, evaluate it it, and compare it to what we believe is the truth of Scripture. I am friends with a wide variety of people from all religious backgrounds and belief systems; socially I enjoy spending time with people who are different learning about their views and why they believe the way they do. That does not mean that I will willingly give someone whose beliefs differ radically from mine the authority to educate my children in matters I feel should be presented through a Biblical-mindset. And I do include some of the groups who self-identify as "Christian" in that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhjmom Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Forgot to say I am on the way out and I will be off-line until late tonight, so I won't be around for any other discussion today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 But, if you wanted to be apart of those things you could. You have a choice. No, not really... the "Young Hindu Ladies" group isn't going to let me join, as I'm not a young Hindu lady... the snowshoe group doesn't want anyone who doesn't snowshoe... you can't join the vintage car assoc if you don't have a vintage car... the off road group doesn't want anyone who doesn't run a quad... and so on. oh and those neighbours don't want me either ~ to them, I'm just a boring old fuddy duddy who doesn't want to get drunk & throw washers around the yard. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I pretty much agree with LidiyaDawn. I do not think that SOF are in tended to pass judgement, but rather carefully outline the beliefs of a particular organization so that everyone goes in with their eyes open and can make an informed choice about whether this is the place for them. I do realize that different groups of people self-identify as "Christians" and that their beliefs may not line up with some group's in the definition of the term Christian. I am not passing judgment on whether they themselves are or are not Christian - just saying that our opinions differ on what that term means. Since it seems that society uses the same term to describe a wide variety of religious views, then a statement of faith becomes necessary to outline what exactly a particular group means when they identify themselves as "Christian". Since they are self-identifying by their own belief, it is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black to say that they can't use the term to describe themselves within their own definition of the term?? :confused: I have never seen a statement of faith worded as "If you don't believe..., you can't join." They always say something like "We believe..." which is their right to define how they self-indentify, if I am reading this thread correctly. I don't take it as "this statement of faith is the only definition of being a Christian", just that "this statement of faith is what being a Christian means to this particular group". Again, necessary because the term has different meanings to different people, which is supported by the comments in this thread. Since a large part of my reason to homeschool is a desire to educate my children with a Biblical-world view (and I will admit mine is a pretty conservative, Protestant version of Biblical), in an educational setting I seek out families with a like-mindedness as to what that means. I do consider my faith an important to every part of my life, including the way I school; it isn't just something you compartmentalize and only consider during Bible study time or when you are in church. It affects how I look at the world and I hope to pass that same understanding on to my children. It does not mean I shelter them from other views and ideas (although mine are still fairly young so I am still protective of what they are exposed to), but rather that we talk about it, evaluate it it, and compare it to what we believe is the truth of Scripture. I am friends with a wide variety of people from all religious backgrounds and belief systems; socially I enjoy spending time with people who are different learning about their views and why they believe the way they do. That does not mean that I will willingly give someone whose beliefs differ radically from mine the authority to educate my children in matters I feel should be presented through a Biblical-mindset. And I do include some of the groups who self-identify as "Christian" in that category. And again, this is fine to a point. What I have issue with is X Group saying it is inclusive to all Christians as long as all the Christians believe exactly as X Group does. First that isn't being inclusive to all Christians. Second I think Jesus (the way I understand Him) would be appalled. Third, why not just say in the name that X Group is actually XY Group. As LilyDawn pointed out people who do not snowshoe are not going to be interested in joining Community Snowshoeing Group. Who they are and what they do is in their name. By the same token, shouldn't Community Christian Homeschoolers be open to all homeschoolers that identify as Christians in the community? If the group only wants a certain population of Christian homeschoolers they should call themselves Specific Denomination of Christian Community Homeschoolers. It would save a lot of headaches to both the group (they wouldn't have to try so hard to keep others away) and Christians that don't fix into the narrow parameters the group has decided to be. Being Catholic I wouldn't mind being involved with a group of Christian homeschoolers. By the same token, being Catholic I'm not so certain I would like to be involved with a group of Free-will Baptist homeschoolers. Exactly who they are and what they do is in their name. I'm not even going to bother. And I wouldn't have any issue to start a thread about on the message boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 No, not really... the "Young Hindu Ladies" group isn't going to let me join, as I'm not a young Hindu lady... the snowshoe group doesn't want anyone who doesn't snowshoe... you can't join the vintage car assoc if you don't have a vintage car... the off road group doesn't want anyone who doesn't run a quad... and so on. oh and those neighbours don't want me either ~ to them, I'm just a boring old fuddy duddy who doesn't want to get drunk & throw washers around the yard. :p Really? I never had an issue going to Buddist or Wiccan groups. I've had many join my horse groups who don't have horses. I'm pretty sure you can join the vintage car association regardless of the type of car you presently own. Just because you think they don't WANT you, is not the same as you CAN'T. That's all I am saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 We struggle with that too. The problem for us is that the Christian (meaning super evangelical with a nice evangelical SOF) group around here is the ONLY group in town. Just starting our own group would leave us with a group of two families, I'm guessing. I wish that the statement of faith for a Christian group read something like: 1. I believe the Bible to be the word of God, in as much as it is translated correctly. (Rather than I believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God, and the only scripture that He has given.) 2. I believe in God the Father, His son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. (Rather than I believe in the triune God: God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.) and so on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I can see with an academic co-op things needing to be more clearly defined. I'd expect there to be a SOF and that at the very least all those who taught classes would be held accountable to teaching that is in alignment with the SOF. In the same way if I sent my kids to a private school I would expect all teaching to conform to the mission statements, goals, & values of the private school. Our social homeschool group has a SOF but no one has to sign saying they agree with it. It gives those who attend a very clear understanding that they can expect us to celebrate religious holidays, pray, talk about God, etc. Anyway, I see a BIG difference between an academic co-op and a social homeschool group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Since a large part of my reason to homeschool is a desire to educate my children with a Biblical-world view (and I will admit mine is a pretty conservative, Protestant version of Biblical), in an educational setting I seek out families with a like-mindedness as to what that means. Except that as a conservative Catholic Christian, I have a LOT more in common with you on the need to follow Biblical principles than the typical loosey-goosey mainline Protestant Christian who attends church on Sunday morning and then pretty much ignores Scripture the rest of the week. My mom's family is Episcopalian and while they could sign the typical SOF, I don't think you'd find them very "like-minded" people. I'm not going to waste my time or yours debating papal authority or the 5 sola's- far greater theologians than I will ever be have devoted reams of ink to those issues over the past 500 years. Nor will I argue with you over whether Genesis should be read literally or allegorically. I don't see the real divide as being Catholic Christian vs. Protestant Christian but rather between those who are devout Christians (of whatever denomination) vs. highly secularized folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Well, Dh and I are Protestant with a little EO leanings here and there. So guess what...we don't fit in either. There is a Catholic homeschooling group in a city about 1.5 hours from here, but we aren't welcome there either. I haven't found a secular group. Oh well, we are doing just fine without and the kids are thriving so I don't feel we are missing out on anything. Faith Really? I'm sorry to hear that :( We have a Catholic group here that accepts EO homeschoolers (and would most likely accept a family where one parent is EO and the other Prot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgr Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 It's disconcerting when it is so-called Christians writing a SOF that delineates what they think all Christians should be, think, believe and do. In practice and actuality, the understanding of scripture of a "Christian" is much wider and broader than many people inclined to insist on a SOF are likely to accept. So, when a SOF is involved, it is like being told: you are not a "good enough" Christian. To a person who self identifies as Christian, that is exclusionary, personal and icky. :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I pretty much agree with LidiyaDawn. I do not think that SOF are in tended to pass judgement, but rather carefully outline the beliefs of a particular organization so that everyone goes in with their eyes open and can make an informed choice about whether this is the place for them. I do realize that different groups of people self-identify as "Christians" and that their beliefs may not line up with some group's in the definition of the term Christian. I am not passing judgment on whether they themselves are or are not Christian - just saying that our opinions differ on what that term means. Since it seems that society uses the same term to describe a wide variety of religious views, then a statement of faith becomes necessary to outline what exactly a particular group means when they identify themselves as "Christian". Since they are self-identifying by their own belief, it is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black to say that they can't use the term to describe themselves within their own definition of the term?? :confused: Here's my problem with that. The OP and I are both LDS. We are Christians. LDS is a subset of Christian. Protestants don't get to own the word Christian, any more than LDS folks or Catholic folks or JWs do. They are all subsets of the overarching word Christian, which simply means someone who believes in Jesus Christ as Savior. So when you have a group that says it's Christian, then it seems wrong and mean to exclude other Christians. Perhaps if people would call themselves "The Conservative Protestant Homeschooling Group," it would help. If there was a homeschooling group just for Mormons, it would be called that, not the more general term. Now personally I get a really icky feeling about exclusive homeschooling groups, and I don't join them. I wouldn't join a group that was only for LDS homeschooling families either, if one existed here (I've never actually heard of one, but I suppose one exists somewhere). To me, the commonality is homeschooling, and I dislike any further separation. But then I also see the groups as primarily for social and field-trip type stuff; I've never joined a co-op. (Though actually I still would not care if another homeschooling mom taught my kids and wasn't LDS. What's she going to do--teach them to sacrifice chickens at midnight?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 What I find rather mean about the local LEAH group is they advertise to the superintendent (who deals with our paperwork). She passes along their information. They aren't up front about their statement of faith. I researched them before deciding to pursue them because I had no idea what they were about. If I got to the point of wanting to join I would have been pretty disappointed when I got to the "sign the statement of faith" part. My super apparently has no idea that they are an exclusive Christian group. She has referred me to them a couple of times. I don't think they have any business using her to advertise. That's a whole other discussion though. ;) Explain it to the super ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Originally Posted by Joanne It's disconcerting when it is so-called Christians writing a SOF that delineates what they think all Christians should be, think, believe and do. In practice and actuality, the understanding of scripture of a "Christian" is much wider and broader than many people inclined to insist on a SOF are likely to accept. So, when a SOF is involved, it is like being told: you are not a "good enough" Christian. To a person who self identifies as Christian, that is exclusionary, personal and icky. :iagree: *checks user name* *feels faint* :001_huh::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Really? I'm sorry to hear that :( We have a Catholic group here that accepts EO homeschoolers (and would most likely accept a family where one parent is EO and the other Prot). We've had three different Eastern Orthodox families in our (Catholic) group; in one of the families the father was an Orthodox priest. There wasn't any other group available for them to join. While I find it very unusual that an Orthodox family wouldn't be welcome in a Catholic group, it really depends on the mindset of the people running it. There are people that are always looking for a way to divide and separate, sadly. Unfortunately, they don't make Christianity look very welcoming to those people who might be open to conversion somewhere down the road. However, in an academical co-op, I really want to know the religious beliefs and would appreciate a statement of such - if the co-op is billed as Christian. If it's advertised as secular, I don't need to know anything about their religious views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 It's disconcerting when it is so-called Christians writing a SOF that delineates what they think all Christians should be, think, believe and do. In practice and actuality, the understanding of scripture of a "Christian" is much wider and broader than many people inclined to insist on a SOF are likely to accept. So, when a SOF is involved, it is like being told: you are not a "good enough" Christian. To a person who self identifies as Christian, that is exclusionary, personal and icky. Wow! I think this makes some really uncharitable assumptions. IMO, a SOF is not intended to outline what one thinks all Christians should be, think, believe and do. It's just a way of saying, "We are a group who does believe this." It doesn't mean we think you should believe this; just that we do and this is the identity of this group. In no way is a SOF (generally speaking) a way of saying you are not a good enough Christian and I think the assumption that it is is "icky.";) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcyB Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 What is possibly more frustrating is being a Christian by your own personal standards and still not able to sign it with any integrity.:confused::lurk5: Yep- this..even when we fit that 'mold' of what those groups are looking for, we can't, in good conscience, sign a SOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 :iagree: I think the earth just shifted a bit. pgr, welcome to the boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherryanne Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Now, imagine you are not Christian. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgr Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I think the earth just shifted a bit. pgr, welcome to the boards. OK, I'm obviously missing something here.....:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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