Statement of Faith?

[kalanamak]

I am so frustrated right now!

 

COUNT your lucky stars they wear their heart on their SOF, and you get to stay away from them. I'll take rudeness to my face over stabs in the back any day!

[Smithie]

"If a group of Christian homeschoolers wants to meet with other Christian homeschoolers, they should be able to do that without anyone else taking offense. But what I prefer is a statement that clearly describes the group ("We are a Christian group; we pray at the beginning of our meetings; here is our statement of faith, which most of us will agree with..."), and then let non-Christians (or Christians who believe slightly differently) decide whether or not to participate. (I would also expect folks who don't agree completely with the group's beliefs to not come in and try to change things.)"

 

:iagree:

 

There are two Jewish homeschooling families in my area that I'm aware of, and we are one of them. No co-op potential there. There is a secular co-op that I belong to, but it's a nascent organization. If I couldn't belong to a Christian co-op, then there would be no structured, multi-subject co-ops available to my kids. I was overtly rejected by one and covertly discouraged by another and then a third one said, "sure, why not? Everybody's welcome here."

 

This is NOT a theologically liberal group of people. They're just secure in their beliefs. They have a code of conduct, they are specific in their literature about being a Christian group, but nobody signs anything and we all just behave ourselves and go about our business!!

 

So, my advice to the OP is: keep looking. Just because one group of non-Mormon Protestants wanted to keep you out doesn't mean that every other group will slam the door in your face.

[Greta]

 

I guess I have me some *special* initials!

 

 

:D

 

Welcome to the boards! And as someone who was REALLY confused for a few minutes there, I think you might want to pick an avatar and/or signature that will distinguish you. Just my $0.02. :001_smile:

[Karenciavo]

You slay me pqr.

[ocelotmom]

It makes me even angrier, though, when people assume that different religions don't have ANything in common with eachother and couldn't possibly all be part of a co-op together.

I can see things like Bible studies being a bit complicated with mixed religions. However, homeschooling groups, really?

:iagree:

 

I'm not Christian. However, we have, at a minimum, homeschooling in common. I draw from primarily Christian curriculums because that's just what some of the best of them (IMO) are. We probably have common ground related to homeschooling, even if we don't share a religion.

 

In general, I agree that it's a good screening tool from both sides. In my previous town, I wouldn't have considered joining the Christian homeschool group (which was inclusive), because there was a large, active, secular group which was a better fit. But now that I live in the middle of nowhere, the only active, visible homeschooling group within an hour and a half is a SoF group. So yeah, I'd consider joining them for the sake of my kids' educational and social opportunities. Instead, I'm trying to start up an inclusive group with the handful of other semi-local non-fundamentalist homeschoolers I've found. And hopefully some of the people from the SoF group will be willing to participate in our activities as well, as I'm not sure we'll reach critical mass otherwise!

 

(This isn't completely accurate. There is an LDS group in the area as well which is open to anyone. We've done a few activities with them, but haven't joined as it isn't a good fit (for reasons unrelated to religion) at this point - maybe in a few years.)

Edited February 12, 2011 by ocelotmom

[Mrs Mungo]

I've said it before, I will say it again. I don't join groups that require one to sign a SOF, even when I agree with the SOF because I prefer to hang out with a diverse group. I have had DIRECT experience with people who instituted them with groups and they *intended* to exclude people. They were ALWAYS shocked at how many (in their eyes) fine, upstanding Christian citizens refused to sign any such thing.

 

pqr, I said it before when you were fighting with Chucki (that's Parrothead for those of you who don't pay attention ;) <--this is a light-hearted joke), because you frequently confuse this issue. Just because someone has the RIGHT to do something, doesn't make it okay to everyone. The fact that I don't like it does not mean I am inhibiting their RIGHTS.

 

Example: I recognize that people have the right to burn the flag. It's an important right to be protected. I still think Americans who burn the flag are big, fat jerks and (if I am TOTALLY honest, which I grant is rarely a good idea) I'd like to punch them in the face. That's pretty much how I feel about non-coop groups that require a SOF. They have the RIGHT to their opinion. I have the RIGHT to think they are rude jerks.

Edited February 12, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[HRAAB]

:iagree: To get back to the topic at hand I'll explain why I said I don't agree with what pqr posted earlier.

 

I'm not seeing anything the OP said (or that I said last time we had this discussion) where anyone is trying to change a group or force their way into a group. If a group is advertising as a Christian homeschooling group then I feel they should be open to everyone who identifies as Christian and who homeschools. Otherwise advertise the group (truth in advertising) as _________ Christian homeschoolers. That way the leadership wouldn't even have to deal with "those other Christians" (who ever they are). Because chances are "those other Christians" don't want to be part of this particular denomination's group.

 

I don't know if that would work because the groups we have here are more primarily non-denominational Christian. I'm not sure how they would identify themselves: Biblical Literalist Christian Homeschoolers???

 

The SOFs I've seen seem to be aimed at excluding a few particular denominations: Catholic, Orthodox, LDS and Jehovah Witness and, of course, non-Christians.

 

For that matter the Catholic homeschooling group I've been a part of over the years can't even get along among themselves; people have been hurt over such issues as using the parish RE programs, girl altar servers, etc. Maybe we're lucky that we're excluded?

[Parrothead]

I don't know if that would work because the groups we have here are more primarily non-denominational Christian. I'm not sure how they would identify themselves: Biblical Literalist Christian Homeschoolers???

Who knows. There should be some way though. If nothing more than it being stated during the initial phone inquiry.

 

The SOFs I've seen seem to be aimed at excluding a few particular denominations: Catholic, Orthodox, LDS and Jehovah Witness and, of course, non-Christians.

Yup. And this is where the term "right kind of Christian" comes from in these threads.

 

For that matter the Catholic homeschooling group I've been a part of over the years can't even get along among themselves; people have been hurt over such issues as using the parish RE programs, girl altar servers, etc. Maybe we're lucky that we're excluded?

I'm just going to say it now. I'm the proud mom of a girl alter server. :D

[HRAAB]

I'm just going to say it now. I'm the proud mom of a girl alter server. :D

 

Good for you. I didn't let my older two because of the pressure of that group. I'm so sorry now that I didn't. It's taken me most of my adult life to grow a backbone.

[Parrothead]

No issues with it, truth be told I might/probably would NOT sign a SOF, but that does not mean that I do not support a group's right to insist upon it.

I support a group's right to have a SOF. I just don't like/wouldn't join a group with a very narrow definition of Christian. To me a Christian is nothing more than someone who follows Jesus Christ. I don't see why anything else needs to be added.

[pqr]

To me a Christian is nothing more than someone who follows Jesus Christ. I don't see why anything else needs to be added.

 

You and I might not but that is our belief not the belief of someone else.

[Mrs Mungo]

No issues with it, truth be told I might/probably would NOT sign a SOF, but that does not mean that I do not support a group's right to insist upon it.

 

And we're only saying we support people's rights to be ticked off about it.

 

I had to do my chores today, and now I'm really ticked off!! (this is another pop culture reference)

 

Chucki, maybe pqr is just anti-rocknroll/aka: sticking it to the man

[Parrothead]

Good for you. I didn't let my older two because of the pressure of that group. I'm so sorry now that I didn't. It's taken me most of my adult life to grow a backbone.

It is one of the few advantages of living in a small town. At one point the only alter servers in this one particular church were dd, another 8-year old girl and two teen-aged boys. You can guess who did the majority of the serving.

[Mother Superior]

The part where it says that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one person. We believe they are three, seperate personages, who are completely united in purpose.

 

 

And I am assuming you'd also have a problem with the part where it says Jesus Christ is the "only son of God."

[Parrothead]

You and I might not but that is our belief not the belief of someone else.

I won't say it. ;)

And we're only saying we support people's rights to be ticked off about it.

 

I had to do my chores today, and now I'm really ticked off!! (this is another pop culture reference)

 

Chucki, maybe pqr is just anti-rocknroll/aka: sticking it to the man

Wouldn't being anti-rocknroll make him the man?

[Xuzi]

And I am assuming you'd also have a problem with the part where it says Jesus Christ is the "only son of God."

Actually, no. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God. We believe that we are all spirit children of the Father, but only Jesus Christ can claim to have been a Begotton Son of the Father in the flesh. (so son of the Father in spirit AND body.)

[Mrs Mungo]

I won't say it. ;)

 

Wouldn't being anti-rocknroll make him the man?

 

Or an agent of the man, perhaps?

 

I'm forming a new group with a SOF. It reads as follows: it's only rocknroll, but I like it.

[pqr]

maybe pqr is just anti-rocknroll/aka: sticking it to the man

 

Now Mrs Mungo, in reading my posts you know better than that :-)

[OnTheBrink]

Wow! I think this makes some really uncharitable assumptions.

 

IMO, a SOF is not intended to outline what one thinks all Christians should be, think, believe and do. It's just a way of saying, "We are a group who does believe this." It doesn't mean we think you should believe this; just that we do and this is the identity of this group.

 

In no way is a SOF (generally speaking) a way of saying you are not a good enough Christian and I think the assumption that it is is "icky.";)

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

And, I don't understand why every thing must be for every body. Why are people supposed to compromise their values just so someone doesn't get their feelings hurt? Have people become so infantile that they have to have a part of every. little. thing. or they throw a fit and scream about how unfair it all is? And, why in the world would anyone want to be part of a group that holds different values and wants like-minded people in it? This makes no sense to me. I won't allow someone in my home who would influence my dd in a way that's counter to my values. Why in the world would I want to force myself into a group and make them accept me if we're just totally different? That's awkward for everyone.

 

Don't misunderstand. I'm not talking about groups that are hostile and intentionally hurtful (but even if a group was, why would you want to be there anyway?), but if a group says up front, "Here's what we believe and we want to be a group that believes XYZ" why in the world get mad that you're not a good fit? Move on or create a group yourself.

 

Anyway, I just don't get the "everyone must accept ME ME ME but I'm allowed to be disparaging toward others if I don't like them" mentality.

[Parrothead]

Wow, so now pqr's the man.

 

This doesn't reflect upon the hormonal nature of women at all.

 

Ducking and running ;)

Someone is going to have to figure out if he is The Man or *The Man.*

 

 

 

I hope any boost to his ego, doesn't go to his head.

[pqr]

Someone is going to have to figure out if he is The Man or *The Man.*

 

 

 

I hope any boost to his ego, doesn't go to his head.

 

My wonderful wife would not allow that to happen.

 

Men should always marry a woman who is smarter than they are that way there is no fear of too great an ego or any other similar behavior. :-)

[Parrothead]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

And, I don't understand why every thing must be for every body. Why are people supposed to compromise their values just so someone doesn't get their feelings hurt? Have people become so infantile that they have to have a part of every. little. thing. or they throw a fit and scream about how unfair it all is? And, why in the world would anyone want to be part of a group that holds different values and wants like-minded people in it? This makes no sense to me. I won't allow someone in my home who would influence my dd in a way that's counter to my values. Why in the world would I want to force myself into a group and make them accept me if we're just totally different? That's awkward for everyone.

 

Don't misunderstand. I'm not talking about groups that are hostile and intentionally hurtful (but even if a group was, why would you want to be there anyway?), but if a group says up front, "Here's what we believe and we want to be a group that believes XYZ" why in the world get mad that you're not a good fit? Move on or create a group yourself.

 

Anyway, I just don't get the "everyone must accept ME ME ME but I'm allowed to be disparaging toward others if I don't like them" mentality.

I don't believe it is a matter of being a good fit or forcing one's way into a group.

 

Something that I think many people fail to remember is that not everyone has the luxury of living in a well populated homeschool friendly area. For many many families there is only one homeschool group in town. There may not be anyone else left to start a group with. In a town of 6000 there might be a group of 5 Christian homeschoolers doing this project or that science fair and the one lone Jewish homeschooling family who can't connect, can't be involved with for no reason other than they are Jewish.

 

Yes, the Christian group has the right to exclude the Jewish family, but does that make it right?

 

That is where people have problems with SOFs.

[lovemyboys]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

And, I don't understand why every thing must be for every body. Why are people supposed to compromise their values just so someone doesn't get their feelings hurt? Have people become so infantile that they have to have a part of every. little. thing. or they throw a fit and scream about how unfair it all is? And, why in the world would anyone want to be part of a group that holds different values and wants like-minded people in it? This makes no sense to me. I won't allow someone in my home who would influence my dd in a way that's counter to my values. Why in the world would I want to force myself into a group and make them accept me if we're just totally different? That's awkward for everyone.

 

Don't misunderstand. I'm not talking about groups that are hostile and intentionally hurtful (but even if a group was, why would you want to be there anyway?), but if a group says up front, "Here's what we believe and we want to be a group that believes XYZ" why in the world get mad that you're not a good fit? Move on or create a group yourself.

 

Anyway, I just don't get the "everyone must accept ME ME ME but I'm allowed to be disparaging toward others if I don't like them" mentality.

 

Why indeed. Well said!

[pqr]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

And, I don't understand why every thing must be for every body. Why are people supposed to compromise their values just so someone doesn't get their feelings hurt? Have people become so infantile that they have to have a part of every. little. thing. or they throw a fit and scream about how unfair it all is? And, why in the world would anyone want to be part of a group that holds different values and wants like-minded people in it? This makes no sense to me. I won't allow someone in my home who would influence my dd in a way that's counter to my values. Why in the world would I want to force myself into a group and make them accept me if we're just totally different? That's awkward for everyone.

 

Don't misunderstand. I'm not talking about groups that are hostile and intentionally hurtful (but even if a group was, why would you want to be there anyway?), but if a group says up front, "Here's what we believe and we want to be a group that believes XYZ" why in the world get mad that you're not a good fit? Move on or create a group yourself.

 

Anyway, I just don't get the "everyone must accept ME ME ME but I'm allowed to be disparaging toward others if I don't like them" mentality.

 

 

Beautifully put.

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't believe it is a matter of being a good fit or forcing one's way into a group.

 

Something that I think many people fail to remember is that not everyone has the luxury of living in a well populated homeschool friendly area. For many many families there is only one homeschool group in town. There may not be anyone else left to start a group with. In a town of 6000 there might be a group of 5 Christian homeschoolers doing this project or that science fair and the one lone Jewish homeschooling family who can't connect, can't be involved with for no reason other than they are Jewish.

 

Yes, the Christian group has the right to exclude the Jewish family, but does that make it right?

 

That is where people have problems with SOFs.

:iagree:

[OnTheBrink]

I don't believe it is a matter of being a good fit or forcing one's way into a group.

 

Something that I think many people fail to remember is that not everyone has the luxury of living in a well populated homeschool friendly area. For many many families there is only one homeschool group in town. There may not be anyone else left to start a group with. In a town of 6000 there might be a group of 5 Christian homeschoolers doing this project or that science fair and the one lone Jewish homeschooling family who can't connect, can't be involved with for no reason other than they are Jewish.

 

Yes, the Christian group has the right to exclude the Jewish family, but does that make it right?

 

That is where people have problems with SOFs.

 

But why does it make it wrong? Again, I'm not talking about being hostile to anyone. But if I want to start a group that does XYZ, why am I wrong to not include people who want to do LMNOP? If the purpose of my group is to accomplish ABC, why would I want people who's agenda is DEF?

 

I get that not everyone has the luxury of having a diverse community of home schoolers and that's unfortunate, but I don't think that requires people to compromise their own goals and values simply because there aren't opportunities for someone else.

 

And, don't think I'm saying this because I've never been left out of anything. I have. But in every situation (for me, anyway) it's always been for the best. Besides, I'm more of a "that group doesn't fit; let's start one of our own!" kind of person, anyway.

[lovemyboys]

......

Yes, the Christian group has the right to exclude the Jewish family, but does that make it right?

 

That is where people have problems with SOFs.

 

Many here have said that in their groups the SOF doesn't need to be signed, it's a statement of the group's beliefs so that all members understand. Ime, these statements are often used as the guideline for behavior, interaction (discouraging proselytizing, for instance) and group "identity."

 

But it goes back to the larger point that Solamichela was making -- just because the group exists doesn't mean that it has to accept everyone and/or that you have a right to membership there just because it's the only one in town.

[Britomart]

I don't believe it is a matter of being a good fit or forcing one's way into a group.

 

Something that I think many people fail to remember is that not everyone has the luxury of living in a well populated homeschool friendly area. For many many families there is only one homeschool group in town. There may not be anyone else left to start a group with. In a town of 6000 there might be a group of 5 Christian homeschoolers doing this project or that science fair and the one lone Jewish homeschooling family who can't connect, can't be involved with for no reason other than they are Jewish.

 

Yes, the Christian group has the right to exclude the Jewish family, but does that make it right?

 

That is where people have problems with SOFs.

 

May I thank you for explaining this? I live in a big city, and so this argument was confusing me, because here there are almost too many groups you could join. I didn't understand the hurt feelings in the midst of this plenty . . . but I forgot (silly of me, because I grew up in a small town) that not everyone lives in such a highly-populated area. This makes the emotions of this thread make a lot more sense to me. Thank you.

[simka2]

Many here have said that in their groups the SOF doesn't need to be signed, it's a statement of the group's beliefs so that all members understand. Ime, these statements are often used as the guideline for behavior, interaction (discouraging proselytizing, for instance) and group "identity."

 

But it goes back to the larger point that Solamichela was making -- just because the group exists doesn't mean that it has to accept everyone and/or that you have a right to membership there just because it's the only one in town.

 

I think it goes back to "rights" vs "ethics." Everything is permissable, but not everything is benefical (for the community as a whole.)

 

The other issue is calling a group "Christian", and then saying, "but only certain Christians.

[Parrothead]

But why does it make it wrong? Again, I'm not talking about being hostile to anyone. But if I want to start a group that does XYZ, why am I wrong to not include people who want to do LMNOP? If the purpose of my group is to accomplish ABC, why would I want people who's agenda is DEF?

 

I get that not everyone has the luxury of having a diverse community of home schoolers and that's unfortunate, but I don't think that requires people to compromise their own goals and values simply because there aren't opportunities for someone else.

 

And, don't think I'm saying this because I've never been left out of anything. I have. But in every situation (for me, anyway) it's always been for the best. Besides, I'm more of a "that group doesn't fit; let's start one of our own!" kind of person, anyway.

We are never going to agree.

 

In the above situation, why can't the commonality be homeschooling? In a situation of Christian homeschoolers why isn't the commonality Christianity? Why is a group that is a group of Christians excluding Christians? To me it makes no sense.

 

To me it is as simple as that. If the group is a Christian group it should allow all people who profess to being Christian. If it is a homeschooling group allow all homeschoolers in the area.

 

I'm done. I've got to go to bed. We won't see eye-to-eye on this. We didn't last time this topic came up.

[Parrothead]

Many here have said that in their groups the SOF doesn't need to be signed, it's a statement of the group's beliefs so that all members understand. Ime, these statements are often used as the guideline for behavior, interaction (discouraging proselytizing, for instance) and group "identity."

 

But it goes back to the larger point that Solamichela was making -- just because the group exists doesn't mean that it has to accept everyone and/or that you have a right to membership there just because it's the only one in town.

But apparently the group the OP tried to join does require the signing of such a document.

 

I'll have to ask if maybe since you are not on the other side you can't see how what you see as guidelines for behavior is something totally different to those not on your side.

[dangermom]

I think it goes back to "rights" vs "ethics." Everything is permissable, but not everything is benefical (for the community as a whole.)

 

 

Exactly. No one is saying that you don't have a right to form exclusive groups. Of course you do. But that doesn't make it necessarily the most gracious thing to do, or the best thing to do.

[Xuzi]

May I thank you for explaining this? I live in a big city, and so this argument was confusing me, because here there are almost too many groups you could join. I didn't understand the hurt feelings in the midst of this plenty . . . but I forgot (silly of me, because I grew up in a small town) that not everyone lives in such a highly-populated area. This makes the emotions of this thread make a lot more sense to me. Thank you.

There are exactly 2 homeschooling groups that I've been able to find in my town of ~30k. There's probably more, but they don't advertise (or don't advertise well). One of the groups is actually LDS (but inclusive, there's some non-LDS members, and they don't require a SOF), but the students are all middle school/high school age. My oldest is 6. Not exactly a fit for us. The other group is a SOF group, which does *awesome* field trips and art classes and such that we can't participate in because agreeing with the SOF is required (and we don't agree with it). I can relate to the OP's frustrations. I don't expect the SOF group to bend to accomodate me, but I don't feel it's wrong for me to feel frustrated with our lack of options when it comes to associating with other homeschoolers, especially when it's something unrelated to homeschooling (for our family at least) that's limiting our options.

[beansprouts]

Chucki, you're still here?

Can I get a refill? :D

[Parrothead]

Chucki, you're still here?

Can I get a refill? :D

Yeah, why not.

 

Last call, the Irish Catholic needs her wits about her this evening.

[Mrs Mungo]

Yeah, why not.

 

Last call, the Irish Catholic needs her wits about her this evening.

 

Good night, Chucki! Goodnight everyone else too, I am hoping sleep will cure this wicked headache.

[OnTheBrink]

We are never going to agree.

 

In the above situation, why can't the commonality be homeschooling? In a situation of Christian homeschoolers why isn't the commonality Christianity? Why is a group that is a group of Christians excluding Christians? To me it makes no sense.

 

To me it is as simple as that. If the group is a Christian group it should allow all people who profess to being Christian. If it is a homeschooling group allow all homeschoolers in the area.

 

I'm done. I've got to go to bed. We won't see eye-to-eye on this. We didn't last time this topic came up.

 

That's ok. We don't have to agree on this. :001_smile:

[lovemyboys]

But apparently the group the OP tried to join does require the signing of such a document.

 

I'll have to ask if maybe since you are not on the other side you can't see how what you see as guidelines for behavior is something totally different to those not on your side.

 

Actually, I have been on the other side of things.

 

I get that the OP was sad and frustrated and venting here. As usual, posts wander all over and become bigger than where they started, especially in matters of faith.

 

I have experienced the isolation of homeschooling in an area that has few groups nearby. And realized after a few visits that despite the fact that one was "the only act like it in town," that it would not be a good fit for our family. The funniest part about it was that it was an "all-inclusive" group that was actually surprisingly rigid with negative opinions for all that didn't fit their philosophies. Watching how they treated people, we decided to move on ... but it wasn't easy since there wasn't anything else at the time. I realize that it was our decision as opposed to a group SOF in our case.

 

While these are frustrating situations, I still agree with Sola's point. :001_smile:

[lovemyboys]

Why is it that all the academic co-ops around here have one that excludes families who believe in additional scripture? I am so frustrated right now! Sheesh! We are all Christians. What is the big deal? It makes me feel like they see us as riffraff who would somehow pollute their children.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Posted in the general hub-bub of conversation elsewhere, but wanted to wish you well in finding something that will be good for your family ... I know how frustrating it can be to find a good group, families that can be friends, etc. Good luck with your search.

[Lovedtodeath]

Wow. I am less than halfway through. ETA: Apparently I stopped reading right where I should have. First 3-4 pages, last page... yep that was about right. :P

In no way is a SOF (generally speaking) a way of saying you are not a good enough Christian and I think the assumption that it is is "icky.";)

icky.

:D I never use the word icky, and when people do it makes me smile.

 

I don't like statements of faith. I would much rather a statement of expected behaviors and other policies to keep everyone happy such as not debating evolution or religion IMHO.

:iagree:

I don't see the real divide as being Catholic Christian vs. Protestant Christian but rather between those who are devout Christians (of whatever denomination) vs. highly secularized folks.

:iagree:But it took a lot of maturing for me to get to this place. And then we also have secularized folks who have very high standards of conduct, and we also have disagreement as to what highly secularized means. We don't attend regularly and haven't for a couple of years...

 

Here's my problem with that. The OP and I are both LDS. We are Christians. LDS is a subset of Christian. Protestants don't get to own the word Christian, any more than LDS folks or Catholic folks or JWs do. They are all subsets of the overarching word Christian, which simply means someone who believes in Jesus Christ as Savior. So when you have a group that says it's Christian, then it seems wrong and mean to exclude other Christians. Perhaps if people would call themselves "The Conservative Protestant Homeschooling Group," it would help. If there was a homeschooling group just for Mormons, it would be called that, not the more general term.

The group that I was interested in had nothing about any kind of religion in their title. I found out when filling out paperwork and getting to the SOF.

 

Okay, since I keep seeing Jehovah's Witnesses mentioned, I figured I should say something to clarify. We do not have additional scripture. We use a variety of translations including those written by Catholics and Protestants. We have a translation published by Jehovah's Witnesses that we use the majority of the time. It restores the divine name where the original manuscripts used the tetragrammaton. I am not expecting to convert anyone, just clarifying that we do have reasons for believing the way we do. I am not a Young Earth Creationist, nor am I an evolutionist, but I have gained respect for the fact that there are reasons for them believing the way they do.

 

Hmm...I don't know where you grew up, but...I am 41 yo and have always been LDS and we have always identified ourselves as a Christian sect. Not sure why a sect could not be Christian. Maybe you could enlighten me? And every church has some portion of truth to it.

Jehovah's Witnesses identify as Christian. We find the term sect offensive and I am very surprised that LDS accept it. We do not accept the Nicene Creed. There is only one sentence that I have issue with. Why is that? "Yahweh created me, first-fruits of his fashioning, before the oldest of his works. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, I came to birth; before he had made the earth, the countryside, and the first elements of the world." (Proverbs 8:12, 22, 25, 26, New Jerusalem Bible) "by his [God's] side, a master craftsman." (Proverbs 8:30, Jerusalem Bible) "through him God created everything in heaven and on earth." (Colossians 1:16—Today's English Version). Compare Proverbs 8; Colossians 1:15-16; John 1:1

 

The Bible summarizes the matter this way: "For us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things . . . and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things." (Italics ours.)—1 Corinthians 8:6, RS, Catholic edition.

 

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" --2 Corinthians 1:3

 

"I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better." --Ephesians 1:17

 

I'm really sorry that was your experience. :( I hope to raise my kids to be a bit more tactful in addressing our disagreements with mainstream Christianity (not using "less than" or "better than" or "gentile" or anything like that). I have had many many non-LDS friends in my life that I have been able to have honest and insightful religious conversations with. Often my faith in the Lord has been boulstered by their Testimonies of their experiences with the Him via Scripture study and service in their various churches. I have learned much (and my kids can learn much) from members of other denominations when we've approached eachother from a place of love, even with our theological differences.

:iagree: Edited February 12, 2011 by Lovedtodeath

[Lovedtodeath]

There are exactly 2 homeschooling groups that I've been able to find in my town of ~30k. There's probably more, but they don't advertise (or don't advertise well). One of the groups is actually LDS (but inclusive, there's some non-LDS members, and they don't require a SOF), but the students are all middle school/high school age. My oldest is 6. Not exactly a fit for us. The other group is a SOF group, which does *awesome* field trips and art classes and such that we can't participate in because agreeing with the SOF is required (and we don't agree with it). I can relate to the OP's frustrations. I don't expect the SOF group to bend to accomodate me, but I don't feel it's wrong for me to feel frustrated with our lack of options when it comes to associating with other homeschoolers, especially when it's something unrelated to homeschooling (for our family at least) that's limiting our options.

:iagree:The only one I could find without a SOF had mostly teenagers while I had to chase a toddler around. I got absolutely nothing out of it and most of the activities were not appropriate for my family. In addition, they met either at a park, roller skating rink... or a church! I do not feel comfortable taking my kids to a church. It would likely confuse them, and if they told someone (like my mom) where we went without clarifying, it could cause some misunderstandings.

 

Does everyone feel comfortable taking their kids to a gathering of a homeschool group at a church?

[Mama Geek]

We are never going to agree.

 

In the above situation, why can't the commonality be homeschooling? In a situation of Christian homeschoolers why isn't the commonality Christianity? Why is a group that is a group of Christians excluding Christians? To me it makes no sense.

 

 

 

It makes sense to me, different Christians believe very different things. That is why.

[unsinkable]

born-and-raised LDS here and the LDS church definitely defines itself as 'Christian'. In fact, the entire name of the church is 'The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". I've always always always heard other members define themselves as Christian and I've always done so myself.

 

Now truthfully, if someone asks me what religion I am or what church I go to, I do say that I am 'LDS' or 'Mormon', but that's mainly to specify which

'flavor' of Christianity I belong to. Just like someone might say they were Baptist or Episcopalian or Catholic or Nazarene or Pentecostal or whatever.

 

I know that some churches refuse to acknowledge us as Christian because we don't recognize the Nicene creed. But our entire religion is based on and around Jesus Christ. :001_smile:

 

:lol:

 

Yeah, hard to argue with that!

[shinyhappypeople]

Anyway, I just don't get the "everyone must accept ME ME ME but I'm allowed to be disparaging toward others if I don't like them" mentality.

 

:iagree:

 

 

Serious question:

 

If a Messianic Jew (believes in Jesus as the Messiah, among other things) wanted to join an exclusively Jewish group, would it really be that hard to understand when the MJ wasn't welcomed with open arms?? Messianic Jews are not accepted by the vast, vast majority of Jewish people.

 

But, if a Jewish family wanted to start a homeschool group, would they really need to put "Orthodox, Reformed and Other Non-Messianic Jews Homeschool Group"? Wouldn't it be enough for them to call themselves "Jewish Homeschooling Group" and then, in the groups "statement of faith" address issues like Messianic Judaism?

 

It's the same thing with this Mormonism / Christianity debate. But, for some reason it's not politically correct to point out that Mormonism isn't accepted as a Christian religion by most Christians. And mainstream Christians aren't accepted as "true" Christians by Mormons. I didn't pull the term "Gentile" out of my.... hat... earlier in this discussion. My brother converted to Mormonism 25 years ago.

 

To the OP, if you're even still reading this: Have you tried talking to the group? Have you asked if they can make an exception? It's worth a try. Then, when you meet some more inclusive souls in the group, you can start your own inclusive group. ;) Just a thought.

[unsinkable]

:iagree:

 

 

Serious question:

 

If a Messianic Jew (believes in Jesus as the Messiah, among other things) wanted to join an exclusively Jewish group, would it really be that hard to understand when the MJ wasn't welcomed with open arms?? Messianic Jews are not accepted by the vast, vast majority of Jewish people.

 

But, if a Jewish family wanted to start a homeschool group, would they really need to put "Orthodox, Reformed and Other Non-Messianic Jews Homeschool Group"? Wouldn't it be enough for them to call themselves "Jewish Homeschooling Group" and then, in the groups "statement of faith" address issues like Messianic Judaism?

 

It's the same thing with this Mormonism / Christianity debate. But, for some reason it's not politically correct to point out that Mormonism isn't accepted as a Christian religion by most Christians. And mainstream Christians aren't accepted as "true" Christians by Mormons. I didn't pull the term "Gentile" out of my.... hat... earlier in this discussion. My brother converted to Mormonism 25 years ago.

 

To the OP, if you're even still reading this: Have you tried talking to the group? Have you asked if they can make an exception? It's worth a try. Then, when you meet some more inclusive souls in the group, you can start your own inclusive group. ;) Just a thought.

 

It is a mindset/personality that excludes.

 

And I think people who have that mindset/personality are drawn to a particular type of religion.

[ocelotmom]

But why does it make it wrong? Again, I'm not talking about being hostile to anyone. But if I want to start a group that does XYZ, why am I wrong to not include people who want to do LMNOP? If the purpose of my group is to accomplish ABC, why would I want people who's agenda is DEF?.

In this case, it's more like one group is ABC, and unwilling to accept the person who does BCD (when the person is willing to accept the presence of A and pursue D in their own time).

[Xuzi]

:iagree:

 

 

Serious question:

 

If a Messianic Jew (believes in Jesus as the Messiah, among other things) wanted to join an exclusively Jewish group, would it really be that hard to understand when the MJ wasn't welcomed with open arms?? Messianic Jews are not accepted by the vast, vast majority of Jewish people.

 

But, if a Jewish family wanted to start a homeschool group, would they really need to put "Orthodox, Reformed and Other Non-Messianic Jews Homeschool Group"? Wouldn't it be enough for them to call themselves "Jewish Homeschooling Group" and then, in the groups "statement of faith" address issues like Messianic Judaism?

 

It's the same thing with this Mormonism / Christianity debate. But, for some reason it's not politically correct to point out that Mormonism isn't accepted as a Christian religion by most Christians. And mainstream Christians aren't accepted as "true" Christians by Mormons. I didn't pull the term "Gentile" out of my.... hat... earlier in this discussion. My brother converted to Mormonism 25 years ago.

 

To the OP, if you're even still reading this: Have you tried talking to the group? Have you asked if they can make an exception? It's worth a try. Then, when you meet some more inclusive souls in the group, you can start your own inclusive group. ;) Just a thought.

I don't doubt that your brother called you a "gentile" or "Not a real Christian". I do however, believe that he was very rude and wrong to do so. In all my years as a Mormon I've never been taught to call non-Mormons "gentiles" or say that persons of other Christian denominations are "not real Christians". It's not what we believe (speaking as an organization - obviously some individuals do, I've encountered at least one IRL myself, and I find the mindset incredibly sad and misguided and not in line with the teachings of the Church).

[unsinkable]

In this case, it's more like one group is ABC, and unwilling to accept the person who does BCD (when the person is willing to accept the presence of A and pursue D in their own time).

 

Reminds me of the song "Everyday People:"

 

"and so on and so on and scooby-do-be-do-be"

 

And that lyric, my friends, is one of the cheesiest in musicdom. :D

[beansprouts]

It is a mindset/personality that excludes.

 

And I think people who have that mindset/personality are drawn to a particular type of religion.

 

Which religion would that be?

[Parrothead]

It is a mindset/personality that excludes.

 

And I think people who have that mindset/personality are drawn to a particular type of religion.

I do believe you're on to something here.

 

 

Serious question:

 

If a Messianic Jew (believes in Jesus as the Messiah, among other things) wanted to join an exclusively Jewish group, would it really be that hard to understand when the MJ wasn't welcomed with open arms?? Messianic Jews are not accepted by the vast, vast majority of Jewish people.

I would have to say that this is a slightly different kettle of fish. Are Messianic Jews only Jewish by heritage? Are they Christians who are not ready to let go? I don't know enough about the Messanic Jews to say. Would they even want to be part of a purely Jewish group.

 

But, if a Jewish family wanted to start a homeschool group, would they really need to put "Orthodox, Reformed and Other Non-Messianic Jews Homeschool Group"? Wouldn't it be enough for them to call themselves "Jewish Homeschooling Group" and then, in the groups "statement of faith" address issues like Messianic Judaism?

I think a better comparison would be if Reformed Jews start a homeschool group and excluded Orthodox Jews simply based on their religious practices. Are the Orthodox Jewish homeschoolers even going to bother checking out the Houston Reform Jewish Homeschoolers? Maybe they would be better suited to check out the Houston Jewish Homeschoolers.

 

It's the same thing with this Mormonism / Christianity debate. But, for some reason it's not politically correct to point out that Mormonism isn't accepted as a Christian religion by most Christians. And mainstream Christians aren't accepted as "true" Christians by Mormons. I didn't pull the term "Gentile" out of my.... hat... earlier in this discussion. My brother converted to Mormonism 25 years ago.

This is the pot and kettle having a conversation.

 

Too many times Protestants are told time and again that Catholics, Mormons, EO, JW, etc are not real Christians. The Momons have popped up here and said, yes, they are Christians. Just because you don't want to believe it Catholics, Mormons, EO, JW, etc identify as Christians doesn't mean that these groups of Christians don't.

 

No matter how you spin it, you won't convince me that a Christian organization should exclude a large percent of the Christian population.

 

To the OP, if you're even still reading this: Have you tried talking to the group? Have you asked if they can make an exception? It's worth a try. Then, when you meet some more inclusive souls in the group, you can start your own inclusive group. ;) Just a thought.