Calming Tea, I've just got to get this off my chest. (no pun intended!)

[astrid]

as soon as she has any sort of "buds" whatsoever. It's *very* embarrassing to look at a 10-12 year old girl and be able to see every aspect of her change. I hate that, and always wonder to myself why the mom doesn't get the girl a bra.

 

Perhaps "the mom" doesn't get the girl a bra because it's a tough subject? Because "the girl" and "the mom" are fully aware, but just not quite emotionally ready to make that leap yet. Perhaps "the girl" is trying hard to stay a little girl, and perhaps "the mom" is watching her only child grow up too quickly.

 

But Thanks. I'm freaked out enough about this, (actually, dd and I both are) without being made to feel like a rotten mom who is oblivious and uncaring and is just fine with her daughter parading around, making OTHERS embarrassed, and invoking their hatred. :blink::blushing:

 

But whatever. :crying:

[Colleen]

I didn't read your original post, but now I'm wondering...is the concept of undershirts totally outdated in this country? They're so practical, on a variety of levels, and still the norm in other places. Your daughter's beyond that age ~ sounds like she's ready for a "training bra" (so am I, come to think of it...:D). I'm just curious if anyone here uses undershirts for their little girls any more...

[Perry]

camisoles. Same purpose, much cuter.

[kat19]

is not comfortable talking about bras and girly things with me.

I don't think she's comfortable about her body changing.

Anyway, she doesn't really like bras, so she wears sports bras for young girls.

I am fine with this and she is happy with it so I don't press the issue.

We thought about the undershirts for her but then we went with the sports bras.

Sometimes she does just wear an undershirt under some of her tops, depends on the top though.

 

I didn't read the first thread. This is just my experience with this :001_smile:

[Hen]

I haven't read the thread either, but...I have to say that I was not comfortable with the subject either, not because I have 'issues' but because I am treading new ground with my relationships with my growing daughters and I don't know what might be seen as 'pushing' by them, I don't know exactly how sensitive they are about their changing bodies...things like that.

 

I did go the the undershirt path with mine first, before going shopping for bras..it was a good initiation/transition for us.

[astrid]

Bra shopping for girls....at what age?

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So at what age did a trip to the bra department become necessary for your dd? My dd will be 11 in June, and she's very tall, and not flat as a pancake anymore, but perhaps I'm in denial. I think one of her dog show friends said something to her at the national, because suddenly she seems very self-conscious. So I'm wondering at what age this tends to happen? She's our first and only, so I swear, she was a toddler yesterday. This is all happening very fast for me! :confused:

[kat19]

I haven't read the thread either, but...I have to say that I was not comfortable with the subject either, not because I have 'issues' but because I am treading new ground with my relationships with my growing daughters and I don't know what might be seen as 'pushing' by them, I don't know exactly how sensitive they are about their changing bodies...things like that.

 

:iagree:

[Jenny in Florida]

I guess I can't help wondering why other folks are so concerned, let alone "embarassed" by some simple biological changes. It happens to all of us. Every adult woman I know has these particular body parts, and we all know they're there. So, honestly, what's the big deal?

 

Until the girl, herself, is uncomfortable about it, this is not something I would force on a child.

 

Childhood is abbreviated enough, in my opinion. I'm in favor of letting kids stay kids as long as they can manage it.

[GailV]

I'm just curious if anyone here uses undershirts for their little girls any more...

 

My younger dd wears one every day through winter. And she's campaigning for 1/2 camisoles (look like short camisoles). We originally saw them in Ottobre, which is a sewing magazine from Finland, so I guess we're under European influence here. It probably helps that I wear wool or silk camisoles all winter, too.

 

My older dd is already doing the sports bra thing, along with layers of T-shirts, so she avoids the undershirt.

[astrid]

I guess I can't help wondering why other folks are so concerned, let alone "embarassed" by some simple biological changes. It happens to all of us. Every adult woman I know has these particular body parts, and we all know they're there. So, honestly, what's the big deal?

 

Until the girl, herself, is uncomfortable about it, this is not something I would force on a child.

 

Childhood is abbreviated enough, in my opinion. I'm in favor of letting kids stay kids as long as they can manage it.

 

My thoughts exactly. But "hate"? It's a pretty strong word, particularly when applied to the bodies of growing girls. It saddens me that people feel this way.....and we wonder why girls and women are so impacted by body image?! Actually, if I'm going to call a spade a spade, it just plain makes me angry. :glare:

[Kelli in TN]

Neither did I read the other thread.

 

But I agree with the posters in this thread who recommended undershirts and camisoles. This is what I buy for my girls when they are at that age. I just recently bought a two-pack of soft sports bras for my 10 year old with the instructions to "Wear these when your shirt is thin or light colored and you don't want to wear a camisole." Basically I am just letting her get used to wearing them.

 

Camisoles are much more comfortable and I let my girls wear them until such time that they need a bit more coverage or need a bit of support.

 

It is like that commercial "Life comes at you fast" !!

[Pink Fairy]

Colleen, my daughter wears undershirts. She's at the stage where a bra is rarely necessary, and an undershirt works just fine. I like it because it provides more coverage if a shirt isn't completely opaque (like a white cotton twill shirt).

 

Molly's Mom,

I, too, can hear you are really upset. Here's a big hug for you :grouphug:. I don't think CT meant to hurt you--I read that original post in the original thread and didn't think twice about it, so maybe she didn't either. And if your daughter was walking around needing a bra, and neither of you realized it, the same thing happened to us--my daughter's ballet teacher made an announcement to her class that they needed to start wearing bras and deoderant. And she was right! But I hadn't figured it out yet. :blushing:

[Plucky]

I agree. I don't want to offend Calming Tea but the simple beginnings of breast development is nothing to be embarrased about. My dd doesn't wear a bra all the time but I expect it to be more regular very soon. She has a little bit of development that is beginning to show but it's not embarrassing or offensive. I do ask her to wear her bra with certain shirts. I think being modest is great but I think sometimes we can go overboard giving our opinions on everything like they are the norm.

[MelissaM]

Children do grow up too quickly and it pulls so hard at the heartstrings. I can imagine that it would be difficult to have a dd be very uncomfortable with her changing body.

 

When a girl's body begins changing it is noticeable. Whether or not the girl (or anyone else) is ready for the changes is irrelevant. If a camisole, undershirt, bra, or whatever is not worn it will be that much more apparent that the said child is developing. *I* would rather have my dd embarrassed with just me present when I talk to her about wearing a trainer/development then to be teased or stared at.

[SheilaZ]

I would be embarassed *for* th girl in that situation....not embarassed *by* them.

 

It just seems prudent in today's society to protect little girls when at all possible.

A full grown woman wouldn't wear a thin t-shirt with nothing underneath....nor should a developing girl.

It's just a matter on not sharing too much information about our bodies with the world.

 

Heck, I have to screen DH's workout shorts because some of them revel way more about him than I'm comfortable about the world knowing. (One of the reasons I'm glad those old army PT shorts are gone. TMI!)

 

I remember being 10 years old and my mother telling me that I couldn't wear a particular shirt anymore without a t-shirt underneath. At the time, I was mad as heck at her. But I am grateful she did it.

 

I don't think mothers of the girl's I"ve seen are "bad moms." But I do wonder if they are aware that people (some not so nice) are looking at them.

[Danestress]

But I love this board for giving me a chance to be the raging liberal, lol.

 

I don't get this from both fronts. I don't get why it's so hard to talk to a daughter about how her body is changing and ask her if she's ready for a bra/camisole. I remember that my developing body caused some dread and embarrassment in my parents, and I remember feeling really awful about that. Like they didn't want me to grow up. I guess I assumed times have changed. I don't have a daughter, so maybe I am out of touch. But in my fantasy life with a daughter, she would have known all along, and I would have known, and DH would have known, that sexual development is part of the plan.

 

And on the other side of things, I don't really understand what's so awful about seeing an 11 year old girl start to develop and to be able to see a little breast bud. Big deal. All female mammals get ..... well, mammory glands. And humans cover theirs. But an 11 year old girl isn't being sexy or precocious. She's a kid still. If she's a kid with breast buds, I can't see finding that hateful, or even uncomfortable. Maybe some of us would address this earlier, but if a mother hasn't, I'm not sure I would even notice, let experience real discomfort. Obviously there is a line, and honesty, I don't know where it is, but it's not at 10 or 11 for me, for a girl with just little buds.

[astrid]

MelissaM, didn't mean for this to go under your post, but rather my original post. Geez, I have such a hard time with this bracket thing! Sorry! :tongue_smilie:

[Mamagistra]

...but it's not embarrassing or offensive...

 

:iagree:

It is absolutely neither. I personally would be mortified if I gave my own dds the impression that others were somehow embarrassed or offended by natural changes, something beyond their control. That said, my greatest concern with my dds is that their natural loveliness is celebrated in modesty, protecting them from outside scrutiny, not the other way round.

[Miss Peregrine]

{{{Molly's Mom}}}

 

I, too think it is sad that some are embarrassed by normal development, making it something to be ashamed of.

[Plucky]

I haven't seen any girls in this situation I guess. My dd does have breast buds but they aren't very noticeable and when it is needed I whisper about the bra. But, I know that there will probably be a time when I'll/she'll miss it and it may be more noticeable. Like I said we aren't at the full-time bra stage yet.

 

I agree with the poster below about there being a fine line between that stage. I'm probably sensitive about it because my dd is just developing here and to think that people could have such strong feelings about my dd's body bothers me.

[Only me]

She is 13. She is 13 and tall but fairly straight. Even though she doesn't have much in the way of development I thought that it was time that she started wearing sport bras. She has been wearing sleeveless undershirts or camisoles for the past 2 years that has helped a bit but I thought that she needed to start wearing a bra now that she is 13. Besides that, I hated to see her wear so many warm layers during the summer. She would wear 3 layers (camisole, t-shirt and sweatshirt) during the winter and until the weather got warm the past week she was still doing that.

 

She was in tears at first and made up a whole bunch of excuses (they're not comfortable, etc.) but now she seems fine. We've had a series of long talks and I've reassured her that even though she is growing up that she will always be my little girl :). We had the same issue when she need to start shaving her legs. She was on a basketball team and tends to grow a lot of hair on her legs that is fairly dark and it really became necessary. This same dd also wasn't very thrilled when she had to start wearing deodrant a few years ago. She doesn't want to grow up!

 

Luckily she is a late bloomer because I can't imagine how upset she will be when she gets her first Pe-iod.

[Meliss]

This thread is bringing back memories to me of when I was this age. It was such an awkward and miserable time for me. I was a year younger than everyone in my class at school and a slow-developer as well. Being behind everyone else in development made me feel soooo self-conscious. The derogatory comments directed at me by other kids are burned on my brain.

 

One evening after church, when a lot of the kids were together, a younger boy pointed at my chest and asked, "What are those?" I was wearing a training bra for the first time. I felt so humiliated that he directed everyone's attention exactly where I didn't want anyone looking.

 

I just glared at him and said, "Go ask your mother!"

 

I know this isn't contributing anything constructive to this thread, but I just wish this stage in life were easier for young girls!!!!

[Plucky]

Yes, I experienced the opposite but it was pretty mortifying, too. I was close to a b cup by 6th grade. All the boys talked about my chest. One of the things I love about homeschooling is that my dd's puberty may not be held under a microscope by her peers. I really want her to feel good about the changes and herself. Others are always going to have an opinion on what qualifies as beauty for women but her opinion about her own beauty inside and out (character) is what matters most.

[Laura K (NC)]

the receptionist had a bright-bright-bright yellow sweater cut down so that her whole sternum was showing. Every time I see this lady she shows more cleavage. Often, her shirts have sparkly things all around the neck-chest opening so it is impossible NOT to notice her cleavage.

 

I would never get upset about a young girl's innocent chest, but dang it, I'm irritated that this grown woman lets half her boobs hang out naked at a pediatrician's office. :rant:

[Karen sn]

camisoles. Same purpose, much cuter.

 

 

We have similar. They are made of lycra or spandex. With no tight band around the chest. (Some sports bras hurt because of that band and so we aren't really into them.)

 

Why would anyone be embarassed over a little kid's buds? I am really sick and tired of being made to feel uncomfortable over my body! And then I have to look at billboards of half naked fake tits selling cars and chicken wings.

 

I remember nursing dd years ago - what can ya really even see of my boob when the babe is smashed up into it and half hidden by a blanket? - but people are really uncomfortable around a nursing baby. We can watch TV and see a head hacked off with a machete - blood spurting everywhere - GRAPHIC violence..... but show a painting on TV of a naked woman and the nipples get faded out. Not the breast - the nipples!

 

Get over it - they're boobs - they make milk to feed our children - little girls grow up to me women.

 

I don't know this person - can't remember who she is - says that she is embarassed by little breast buds. THAN DON'T LOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jennifer in NH]

:iagree:

It is absolutely neither. I personally would be mortified if I gave my own dds the impression that others were somehow embarrassed or offended by natural changes, something beyond their control. That said, my greatest concern with my dds is that their natural loveliness is celebrated in modesty, protecting them from outside scrutiny, not the other way round.

:iagree: That is so well said! I'd rep you if they'd let me, but i have to spread it around some more!

 

Honestly, my dd is 7 and we haven't come to near this stage here yet! But, camisoles are such a very good idea! I do remember being mortified the first time i had a training bra! I come from a household were anything about sex was never discussed! Hopefully I'll be better with my kids! But from this thread, i think I, personally, will buy a few undershirts and pretty camisoles.

[Miss Peregrine]

Exposing myself a bit here--

 

All through Jr. High my nickname was ahem, BB(as in BB's from a BB gun) :blushing:

 

I am sure my mom noticed as much as all those boys did. It makes me so sad that she was too embarrassed, ashamed, whatever to say "Honey,I think you may need a bra with a little lining." I suffered a LOT. Needlessly.

 

I didn't know there was anything I could do about that particular problem. I was on my own.

 

Even though we may be uncomfortable with it(though I am not) we owe it to our daughters to not try and hide their development or act as if it something of which to be ashamed.

[Karen sn]

{{{Molly's Mom}}}

 

I, too think it is sad that some are embarrassed by normal development, making it something to be ashamed of.

 

nnn

[Laura in VA]

I am all for allowing little girls be little girls but we need to recognize that young ladies live in a world where they are surrounded by men. It is a kindness to those men, of all ages, to have our girls wearing appropriate underclothes. For the sake of my pre-teen son I hope the girls around us will wear undershirts and bras when necessary. They can diminish the look of those little buds and help the girls stay little girls longer - really.

 

I am glad my mother made me wear a training bra when I didn't want to. It was necessary. I think it helped that I was the second girl so she was ready for it.

 

:iagree:

[CookieMonster]

is the concept of undershirts totally outdated in this country? I'm just curious if anyone here uses undershirts for their little girls any more...

 

I would say that they are outdated. I never wore them. I don't know anyone IRL who did. Do they even sell them anymore? I've never even seen any.

 

I only even barely know what undershirts are. I don't remember when or how they came to my consciousness, but somewhere along the way I was introduced to enough about them to not be shocked that Scout had one on under her button-down shirt in To Kill a Mockingbird.

 

How does one even wear one? Wouldn't it be awfully hot to have one on in the summer? Wouldn't it totally 'show' through the outer shirt?

[Jenny in Atl]

The US is way to uptight about all things "breasts", even on this board some call them "Books"? It's so sad that something meant to feed a baby is now only looked at as either sexual or something to be ashamed of.

 

It's funny, I was like any other young girl, mortified when I began to develop early at 11. I was still pretty uptight about my body till I had kids. Then after seven years of breastfeeding, and at least eight helping and supporting other women to breastfed (I saw lots of breasts, all shapes, sizes, and colors), I now almost don't even notice them; I now "see" them in a whole new light. I hope to pass down this much healthier view to my daughters. There is a difference between a young girl with breast buds in a tee-shirt and a grown woman with a "boob job" who is hyper-sexualizing something that should be natural.

[Mekanamom]

Yes, I experienced the opposite but it was pretty mortifying, too. I was close to a b cup by 6th grade. All the boys talked about my chest. One of the things I love about homeschooling is that my dd's puberty may not be held under a microscope by her peers. I really want her to feel good about the changes and herself. Others are always going to have an opinion on what qualifies as beauty for women but her opinion about her own beauty inside and out (character) is what matters most.

 

Yep! That's how I feel too. My 11yo dd is taller than me, wears a whole size bigger shoe than I do, and started developing early.

 

She has never had to feel embarrassed or awkward about growing up and being very tall... she would have been teased to no end in public school.

 

She started regularly wearing bras and camis just before she turned 10. Mainly by her choice. When we were shopping for clothes around the time she started budding, I just bought a variety of stretchy bras and camis, told her to be sure to wear a cami under her white 4-H uniform shirt, and that was that.

 

Instead of focusing on what all the "other" people think, we just focused on what dd was comfortable with. That area is incredibly sensitive during development, and I think the extra clothing there helps keep her physically more comfortable. We also ride horses, so a little extra support is always welcome, lol.

 

My middle (nearly 10yo) dd, OTOH, is no where near *needing* a bra. She wears one because her older sister does. Fine with me! Again, I am glad she isn't in a situation where she would be teased for wearing a bra that she doesn't really *need* yet. KWIM? She's comfortable. That's what matters.

 

If a mom is in a situation where they think a girl needs a bra, but the girl doesn't want one- that could be a challenge. I guess in that situation I would say that at this stage of life it's time to add a little extra clothing with as little fuss as possible. The same is true the other way around. If a girl wants a bra before you think she really needs one, what's the big deal? Just like True Blue said:

 

...her opinion about her own beauty inside and out (character) is what matters most.

[Andie]

I didn't read your original post, but now I'm wondering...is the concept of undershirts totally outdated in this country? They're so practical, on a variety of levels, and still the norm in other places. Your daughter's beyond that age ~ sounds like she's ready for a "training bra" (so am I, come to think of it...:D). I'm just curious if anyone here uses undershirts for their little girls any more...

 

We do! They aren't easy to find, though. When the older girls were little, it took me a good while to realize that they're not common. I'd ask for them at stores and kept getting directed to half camis and sports training bras, even when my big girls were tiny. I grew up wearing them (they came from the Sears catalog, then, in matching sets with my floral undies:)) and I hate that they're disappearing.

[Old Dominion Heather]

The US is way to uptight about all things "breasts", even on this board some call them "Books"? It's so sad that something meant to feed a baby is now only looked at as either sexual or something to be ashamed of.

 

That came from a hysterically funny typo that Laney (?) made a few years ago. The name stuck because it reminds us of the typo and we all smile again. It isn't because we are uptight... believe me! Don't get us started on the Brazilians! :lol:

[Jenny in Atl]

That came from a hysterically funny typo that Laney (?) made a few years ago. The name stuck because it reminds us of the typo and we all smile again. It isn't because we are uptight... believe me! Don't get us started on the Brazilians! :lol:

 

Ah, I'm a general board Newbie.. thanks for the explanation!

[elegantlion]

I think I was 11 when I got my first bra. I'm so glad they have more than just white now.

 

I wore one the first day of 6th grade and everyone noticed because the white showed through my shirt.

[astrid]

I've bought them at my local Target. They were great under dd's sweatshirts, turtlenecks and sweaters this winter, but now that the weather is warm they just seem too hot. Hence my inquiry. See, since dd is homeschooled, I"m not around hordes of little girls her age that much. And her friends are pretty flat-chested, or at least I've never noticed them.

 

Check Target......we got some nice ones; cami-type, but cotton with pretty stitching. Dd said they were soft and comfy.

[Joanne]

If your child's normal biological development causes this much intensity and stress, I'd like to encourage you to seek outside support and help.

 

Both mother and daughter would benefit if Mom can find and communicate a healthy, balanced perspective on these and related issues.

 

Please. I speak from experience.

 

This weekend, I put on white shorts. It was like channeling my mother and I relayed the "no white pants" lectures I got when I got my period. I must have captured the present but probably unintended passion and intensity with which my mom addressed these topics, because the look on my husband's face was that of aghast.

 

Her "stuff" around tampons was even worse.

[GailV]

We do! They aren't easy to find, though. When the older girls were little, it took me a good while to realize that they're not common. I'd ask for them at stores and kept getting directed to half camis and sports training bras, even when my big girls were tiny. I grew up wearing them (they came from the Sears catalog, then, in matching sets with my floral undies:)) and I hate that they're disappearing.

We buy undershirts, both sleeveless and short sleeved, at Target. Camisoles are everywhere, too, at the mall -- all the girls around here seem to wear them under everything, in all sorts of weather. Well, at least the crowd we hang out with -- in Irish Dance you pretty much have to wear some sort of t-shirt or cami, since the dresses aren't washable, are heavy as lead, and are itchy, plus you're likely to be changing into your dress in a public hallway. But, really, the girls at church wear double camis/shirts all year round, and it gets wicked hot and humid here. It's no odder than the kids who wore flip flops all winter long in northern Ohio.

 

(By the way, every time I've typed the word "undershirt" today I've left out the 2nd r; I'm so glad my browser has a spellcheck on it.)

[Marie in Oh]

wears undershirts. The old fashioned ones like we wore as kids. She by no means is devloping even close yet-- she only weighs 50 lbs. I just thought it would be a nice transition. Plus, some of the t-shirts with lycra in them are so tight that it is nice to have something under them.

[Marie in Oh]

I don't think you will need counseling either. . . anymore than I will in a couple years when my oldest is ready for that. I will be in the same boat and equally as sad. And I will have at least 4 more to go through it. Maybe you can borrow some of my little girls when it is their turn. I am sure we will be hormoned out by then.

 

:grouphug: Your aren't crazy- just a little sad to see your little girl growing up, as you well should be.

[Melissa in FL]

The US is way to uptight about all things "breasts", even on this board some call them "Books"? .

 

We do this mainly so people googling Brea$ts don't come to this site. You will see many words on this board hidden from searches this way. BooKs came directly from the mistype mentioned, but it was kept more to keep the wackos who google those words from coming here and becoming trolls.

HTH

Melissa

[dirty ethel rackham]

the receptionist had a bright-bright-bright yellow sweater cut down so that her whole sternum was showing. Every time I see this lady she shows more cleavage. Often, her shirts have sparkly things all around the neck-chest opening so it is impossible NOT to notice her cleavage.

 

I would never get upset about a young girl's innocent chest, but dang it, I'm irritated that this grown woman lets half her boobs hang out naked at a pediatrician's office. :rant:

 

Gee, how many babies look at her and think "LUNCH"! ;) I'm sure that's not the effect she is going for, LOL!

[Kimber]

We do! But I don't think they're the norm.

[Danestress]

Ah, I'm a general board Newbie.. thanks for the explanation!

 

Is that some people use filters that filter out certain words. I used to be so annoyed that people would use "s@x" as if there is something bad about the real word, but then someone explained that for those with filters on their computers, it really helps to use these little codes.

[Kelli in TN]

If your child's normal biological development causes this much intensity and stress, I'd like to encourage you to seek outside support and help.

.

 

Seriously?

 

If I had sought therapy everytime I flipped out about a new thing with my first couple of kids I would have been in therapy seven days a week.

 

I think we could just all give Molly's Mom our best advice and some btdt that yes, they grow up faster than we are ready for.

 

If you had seen me sobbing on the floor the last time I took the crib down you probably would have had me sedated and committed. The parenting gig comes with weird emotions sometimes.

[Kelli in TN]

Gee, how many babies look at her and think "LUNCH"! ;) I'm sure that's not the effect she is going for, LOL!

 

I wanted to say that but lacked the courage. :lol:

[WTMindy]

I would say that they are outdated. I never wore them. I don't know anyone IRL who did. Do they even sell them anymore? I've never even seen any.

 

I only even barely know what undershirts are. I don't remember when or how they came to my consciousness, but somewhere along the way I was introduced to enough about them to not be shocked that Scout had one on under her button-down shirt in To Kill a Mockingbird.

 

How does one even wear one? Wouldn't it be awfully hot to have one on in the summer? Wouldn't it totally 'show' through the outer shirt?

 

Like others have said, I think cute camis have taken the place of the undershirt. My dd has some that have a bra shelf and some that don't, but it seems to have put off the need for a bra. But, we do talk about the whole process.

[Joanne]

Seriously?

 

If I had sought therapy everytime I flipped out about a new thing with my first couple of kids I would have been in therapy seven days a week.

 

My clarification, apology and amended post were removed. I'm not sure why; I'm not sure why Molly's post in response to mine was removed, either as I didn't read anything wrong with it.

 

In any case, I clearly misread her on this issue and, once again, would like to apologize.