Halloween......CC

[Guest]

Although dh and I grew up celebrating Halloween and continued to do so while we were dating, as we became stronger in our Christian faith, we both have felt convicted that this event is not for us. We do not celebrate any aspect of it. Although my dd does love shopping the after-event sales for various wigs and costume items that she can use throughout the rest of the year.

 

That said, we do not condemn anyone, Christian or otherwise, who chooses to embrace Halloween.

 

I will attempt to explain a bit of my belief. First, I am big on symbolism. I love how an abstracted picture or behavior can represent something much more complex. The sign of the fish, for example. When I began to research Halloween, primarily from historical documents, I began to recognize that most of what I had considered to just be fun Halloween traditions actually were symbolic of things that did not fit with my religious beliefs. Even though most participants are not aware of the origins of the traditions, those origins still exist.

 

Secondly, we lived in an area where there was a large immigrant population from the Carribean islands, several of whom did practice some very dark religions. The local police officers went around the local neighborhoods warning people to stay clear of a heavily wooded area and to take their pets in during the week before Halloween. They also recommended that day cares and nursery schools beef up their security precautions. A few years before we moved there, a child was abducted, apparently to be used in sacrificial rituals by one of the groups. That opened my eyes to the fact that while the mainstream saw Halloween as a happy, fun, family-friendly event, that there was still a very dark current lying below that surface.

 

And finally, I read a religious tract about it that really touched my heart. I know that sounds silly, and I rarely read tracts because most of them are so dull, reactionary, overly-simplified, and often theologically lacking. However, this one really convicted me and brought me to the point of praying to God to determine whether we should celebrate Halloween or not. It emphasized the symbolic connections that I had already studied, gave the verses about how much God hates for Christians to follow other gods, and finally, gave the analogy related to a popular movie at the time, the title of which escapes me now. The question was posed regarding how your husband would feel if you promised to be 100% faithful to him 364 days a year but all bets were off on that one last day-you could flirt with other men, go out with them, take gifts from them, and even have "tea" if you chose. The tract went on to say that that is how Halloween is for many Christians, who are model adherents of the faith 364 days a year but for that one night surround themselves with non-Christian symbols, go to parties where there is excessive drinking and other inappropriate things going on, if not themselves dressing up in the trappings of death or demons then encouraging others who have done so, participating in seyances (this was popular when I was a kid and teen) attempting to talk with spirits of the dead, and our holy God is supposed to turn His head while we are up to all this and to act as if nothing has happened on November 1.

 

So, this is how I believe. I am not open to fighting about it, so please save your rotten tomatoes. I fully realize that this is only MY conviction, so I don't expect others to jump on board. I don't judge others who have not felt called to my level of non-observance. I offer this only because I felt that there may be a reader out there somewhere who was conflicted and I wanted to offer another point of view for their consideration.

 

BTW, we don't do pseudoHalloween harvest festivals either. A rose by any other name.... We are perfectly fine with this, and other than dd becoming a bit anxious for any of our animals that we can't bring into the house for a few days, we don't even acknowledge Halloween. She does not resent God or Jesus, she does resent those who would sacrifice someone's pet as part of some dark ritual.

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to post this. I have actually been on the fence about the whole thing. The only question I have is, what if you aren't doing all of those horrible things, though? What if all you do is go get candy wearing a costume? My kids wear costumes all the time for fun... they really like to dress up. Whether or not they even knew it was Halloween, chances are they would dress up anyway. I don't really see what is wrong with getting candy. I definitely do not agree with worshipping God the way He says not to (as the pagans worship), but getting candy is not a religious celebration. We aren't worshipping God by doing that. Does that make sense? On the other hand, I sometimes think that I shouldn't do it since other people do see it as a religious holiday, so maybe observing the day is participating, even if you don't mean it that way?

 

As far as Christmas, we actually don't celebrate it as a religious holiday since it existed before the birth of Christ under a different name, it's not His birthday, and He did not tell us to celebrate it for Him. We just see it as a cultural holiday to give presents to our kids, and maybe at most, to teach the kids about giving (St. Nicholas - not Santa - and his generous spirit).

 

If we aren't to celebrate Halloween, due to the pagan origins, doesn't the same go for Christmas? As far as Easter, we are supposed to remember His ressurrection, but my family avoids everything else, like the Easter Bunny and eggs, etc.

 

So sorry I rambled... just throwing my thoughts out there. I do not judge anyone else for what they do... these are just the things I have been thinking. Like you, I am not worried about, or judging, what anyone else does. :) Again, I really appreciate your post.

Edited October 11, 2010 by Jinnah

[Karis]

Deut. 12:29-32

 

 

29 The LORD your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, 30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, "How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same." 31 You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods. 32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.

 

 

This link explains it further:

 

http://www.abcog.org/nh/vain.htm

 

 

 

Also, I've never seen the Veritas Press Article, and I have never mocked anyone here. :confused: Either you didn't mean it toward me (even though I was quoted) or you are mistaking me for someone else.

 

 

I think most of what people do is in DIRECT contradiction to the Word of YHVH/ YHWH and are simply the traditions of men.

 

I view many practices as baptized "heathenism" Is that a word!?!? :tongue_smilie:

 

and people simply justify it... rationalize it or say it doesn't apply to me or I don't do the "questionable" stuff or they simply do not know what has been spoken about it.

 

I don't slam what people do but if you ask me about why we don't then I'll be straight up about it. The reality is if anyone WANTS to do something they will. We are FREE to do whatever. what will we choose?

 

The article from VP was posted by someone else. But the article did say vanquish the enemy could mean/ meant "mocking" the enemy and that's what people were initially doing with the scary stuff. I'd never heard mock and vanquish used the same way.

 

But that's just part of the issue. The "mixing" is problematic as well. It's not destroying the high places. the high places existed because of the mixing.

[Gwenhwyfar]

 

and people simply justify it... rationalize it or say it doesn't apply to me or I don't do the "questionable" stuff or they simply do not know what has been spoken about it.

 

 

or they believe differently than you do. :)

[Haiku]

Just out of curiosity, why do people object so much to symbols of death in Halloween ... I'm not talking about the costume where the guy has an axe through his head. I mean skeletons and other symbols of death people have mentioned. I mean, we all die, right? So what is the objection to symbolizing it? I'm not Christian and I'm asking with sincerity.

 

Tara

[Karis]

or they believe differently than you do. :)

 

 

bingo!

 

 

:iagree:

[kalphs]

http://resources.veritaspress.com/Oct05_epistula.htm

 

Here's the article from Veritas Press arguing that Halloween with all it's trappings (well maybe not the candy) is a distinctly Christian holiday.

Thank you for posting this!

[susankenny]

As far as Christmas, we actually don't celebrate it as a religious holiday since it existed before the birth of Christ under a different name, it's not His birthday, and He did not tell us to celebrate it for Him. We just see it as a cultural holiday to give presents to our kids, and maybe at most, to teach the kids about giving (St. Nicholas - not Santa - and his generous spirit).

 

 

We actually feel similarly in some regard to Christmas. I absolutely love Christmas & everything about it. Yes, it is a religious holiday, but it is also filled with traditions that we truly love. We love the decorations, presents, music, family, the food, and even Santa! Of course we celebrate the birth of Christ & love going to church and talking about what it all means; it is at the core of why we do what we do. But honestly, for my family, the holiest time is Easter. The 40 days prior to Easter Sunday is spent in prayer, reflection, and fasting. It is a HUGE deal for us & nothing holds a candle to it.

[susankenny]

Just out of curiosity, why do people object so much to symbols of death in Halloween ... I'm not talking about the costume where the guy has an axe through his head. I mean skeletons and other symbols of death people have mentioned. I mean, we all die, right? So what is the objection to symbolizing it? I'm not Christian and I'm asking with sincerity.

 

Tara

 

Well, I can only speak on behalf of my reasoning. We don't let our kids dress up scary. Costumes that portray the dead as living just doesn't set well with my husband or I. Now, I realize most kids that dress up as ghosts, walking skeletons, witches, etc. are doing so just to have fun. But we have a personal conviction about it, so we steer clear of those choices (plus they can scare other kids, and we don't want to do that). My kids have a billion other choices of things they can dress up as, so it's not like we're being unfair or mean.

 

Susan

[hillfarm]

Just out of curiosity, why do people object so much to symbols of death in Halloween ... I'm not talking about the costume where the guy has an axe through his head. I mean skeletons and other symbols of death people have mentioned. I mean, we all die, right? So what is the objection to symbolizing it? I'm not Christian and I'm asking with sincerity.

 

Tara

 

I'm sure everyone has their own reasons, but for me the death symbols seem to be either in the "body still living without the soul" vein or the "decay extravaganza" vein. The first doesn't mesh well with my religious beliefs and the second is just gross and unsanitary!

 

Basically, to me much of it seems to be celebrating the opposite of health and life, both of which IMO should be cherished and protected. And so much of it just seems in questionable mental health--let's dig up a dead body for entertainment! Let's welcome disease-ridden, germ carrying body parts (or the plastic semblance thereof) into our home for the celebration!

 

Probably some of my revulsion is due to the fact that we live fairly close to a lot of real dead stuff. We raise our own meat animals and often do our own butchering and have seen (and smelled) ahem...most internal organ systems in an up close and personal way. We sometimes have to necropsy a dead animal to determine why it died, again no cause for hilarity and celebration. It is not entertaining. We occasionally stumble across dead wildlife in the woods around us. No pleasant diversion there either. Maggots just aren't funny.

Edited October 12, 2010 by hillfarm

[jazzyfizzle]

Deut. 12:29-32

 

31 You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

 

 

 

 

Ok, I am completely not being snarky here- but the first thing that came to my mind when I read this was- Abraham and Isaac. And yes, I know that Isaac was spared at the last moment- but it was 'commanded' to do this very thing, correct? Not hypocricy?

[Jenn in Mo]

I know this has the potential to get ugly, but I am hoping everyone will play nice. I am having an internal struggle over the Halloween issue. For years I have gone back and forth with how I feel etc. We have never NOT done Halloween. The guidelines I have had over the years that haven't changed are:

 

No scary costumes or decorations

No attending "haunted houses"

 

In the past there were some years that we didn't trick or treat but instead attended a church "harvest" festival.

 

When we "celebrate" halloween all we do is dress up, carve pumpkins and trick or treat. We don't participate in any satantic rituals or anything obviously evil, yet today I am feeling like I might be wrong to acknowledge Halloween at all - and I am irritated by this.

 

Yesterday a mom at Park Day was casually chatting with me about Halloween and the reasons they don't celebrate. I have felt I always fall in the "it isn't big deal to dress up and collect candy" camp. This mom says that christians saying it is "no big deal" are in denial because the Bible says to avoid even the appearance of evil. I understand what she is saying, but in my mind I am still saying it is no big deal because of my guidelines. How is putting on a cute costume and collecting candy giving "an appearance of evil?" I am not understanding. How are our smiling deocorations and cute little pumpkins an "appearance of evil?" Am I nuts? In denial?

 

I just can't picture telling my 6 yo ds who loves decorating for all holidays and who loves trick or treating, "Sorry son, Jesus says Halloween is evil - no trick or treating anymore." Talk about turning a kid against Jesus! Obviously, I am using some hyperbole because I woudn't exactly word it that way - but the result would be the same - a kid resenting Christ. Maybe he would understand, but at 6 I doubt it.

 

Insight anyone? Please be nice:D.

 

I'll catch up in reading the replies soon, but wanted to jump in first to say a few things.

 

#1. I'd recommend asking God what He has to say about it. If, after careful prayer and consideration, you do not feel conviction over it then I wouldn't worry about it.

 

#2. The "Jesus says Halloween is evil/turning a kid against Jesus" part seems messed up. I know you weren't really saying that Jesus said that, but let's just say for kicks that He has said some pretty fun things are bad for us. Say...sex before marriage or some such...you could go at it with the angle that Jesus was snatching away all the fun. What a downer! Or you could go at it with the angle that God has some guidelines for us about holiness and healthy living because He cares very much for us.

 

#3. Cute costumes and decorations are fun. Lots of fun! But you aren't the only trick-or-treaters on the street. I would love to consider trick-or-treating as part of our fall traditions, but there are a lot of NOT cute things flooding the streets on Oct. 31st. I don't think of it as an evil day...it's a day that God created like any other...but lots of people all around us love the thrill of the dark side of the day. Most of them do so out of purely innocent fun, but the ghosts, the severed heads, and such aren't innocent fun for my kids. But this is my decision for my family. I think every family knows best what fits their family.

 

We love fall; it's probably our favorite season. We fill it up with leaf-pile-jumping, soup dinners with friends, and pumpkin patch trips. We decorate our porch with gourds, mums, and un-carved pumpkins. We have had a tradition for at least 10 years of visiting some friends that live in the country (and don't get trick-or-treaters) on Oct. 31st for a game night with lots of yummy foods. The kids dress up every day of the year because they're just freaks like that, so they don't feel like they are missing out on anything there. And we spend November 1st stocking up on half-price candy so they definitely don't miss out on the chocolate. In fact, we get to go buy the good stuff and lots of it instead of coming home with bags of tootsie-rolls and dum-dums. It fits our family...for someone who doesn't celebrate Halloween, I sure look forward to October 31st with a lot of giddy anticipation! lol!

[Joan in GE]

We have a holiday here in Geneva only where people celebrate the time when the Duke of Savoy was prevented from taking over the city. It is very significant because Geneva was Calvinist and the Duke Catholic. It occurred in 1602 and thus allowed the Reformation to continue here.

 

For a long time there was no "holiday" per se, but it was revived partly for commercial reasons as they sell chocolate pots. Almost every family buys one or more.

 

One (semi)tradition (I think it is newer) here is for children to go around singing traditional songs at the neighbors' doors, then they will get money or candy. There aren't many, maybe only one a year at our door, we are in a neighborhood where the houses are a bit spread out.

 

We did it one year but it was our last. Half of the people refused to open their door, even when we could see them through the windows or they even opened the door then closed it when they realized what it was. That tended to be older members of the neighborhood, who maybe did not have the tradition in their youth. (One of the woman was more than 100 years old).

 

After that, I realized that it was really begging even with the singing. We are not impoverished people scraping to make ends meet.

 

And so now that I relook at the Halloween tradition and have to ask, what is so Christian (eg VP article - We can hardly object, however, to children collecting candy from friends and neighbors.) about going around asking for candy? Isn't it really 'begging' too?

 

Halloween had a little surge of activity here but seems to have worn off except that people like to dress up for parties. So for a couple of years we had maybe one or two people knocking at our door but for the past years, no one.

 

I hope the following is not too dark, but put it out there...I feel like I grew up in the US with the "get something for nothing whenever you can" mentality and have to fight against it because it is so ingrained. I'm not sure it is a healthy notion, even though it is so ingrained in my culture.

 

I don't want to get tomatoes in my lap,

Just trying to put out food for thought,

Joan

Edited October 12, 2010 by Joan in Geneva

[Sherry in OH]

...

And so now that I relook at the Halloween tradition and have to ask, what is so Christian (eg VP article - We can hardly object, however, to children collecting candy from friends and neighbors.) about going around asking for candy? Isn't it really 'begging' too?

...

 

Yes, it is sanctioned begging. That is why it is commonly called "beggar's night."

 

When I was a child, trick-or-treating was for young children. After the age of twelve or thirteen, children went to halloween parties. These parties were sponsored by churches or scouting groups. The intent was to keep teens out of mischief.

 

Last year, we had adults come to our door expecting candy.

[Gwenhwyfar]

i wouldn't call it "begging". the people in the houses are prepared with candy & ready to hand it out - it's not like someone unexpectedly asking you for a loonie downtown.

[Joan in GE]

Yes, it is sanctioned begging. That is why it is commonly called "beggar's night."

 

 

Ahhh, that is a term I've occasionally heard my husband use but wasn't in my "regional" vocabulary...but it does hit the nail on the head, doesn't it?

 

So then the question is, "when is begging ok?" Somehow it doesn't seem like a Christian activity. I cannot remember seeing it condoned in the Bible. There seem to be negative connotations there...almost like a curse....the sluggard begging in the harvest...and a curse that the children of the wicked would beg...vs the blessed..the descendants of the righteous are not begging their bread...

 

So "who" sanctioned it? and when and why?

 

the people in the houses are prepared with candy & ready to hand it out

 

I think the only reason the people are prepared is because it has become traditional. I know we were prepared in my youth because otherwise people would throw corncobs through the stained glass window above our door. And I know that here, when the first tricker treater showed up, we were not prepared; it was a shock.

 

And don't they usually say "Trick or treat"? (You could probably avoid saying the words, but by showing up on that day, you are saying it nonverbally.)

 

Thoughts from afar,

Joan

[LibraryLover]

I love Halloween, but I blame the British and those Celts. ;)

 

http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/Halloween.html

[susankenny]

Trick or treating doesn't equate to begging in my mind....that comparison seems a little far stretched to me. That's just my opinion though. In my town, no one is hostile if homes don't partake. In fact, lots of homes don't, as many people are out getting candy themselves, at a festival, or simply choose not to participate. They just turn the porch light off as a sign for trick or treaters....no corn cob throwing or backlash either. I'm in a small town and Halloween is just a night of fun for kids to dress up and get candy. If it means more than that to anyone around here, they certainly aren't vocal about it. We trick or treat at our local fire depatment, police station, family dollar, library, grocery store, and a few neighbors homes. Then we head off to the church for trunk or treating, hay rides, face painting, and games. All of it is in walking distance. It's fun.

[Joan in GE]

I love Halloween, but I blame the British and those Celts. ;)

 

http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/Halloween.html

 

 

I'm glad you added the link because it was a statement begging and answer.

 

Interesting site. I saw this

 

"Halloween and Bonfire Night have a common origin they both originated from pagan times, when the evil spirits of darkness had to be driven away with noise and fire."

 

and found it interesting because in China, for Chinese New Year, they set off tons of firecrackers (fire and noise) to drive away the evil spirits. And here in Switzerland they have enormous fire traditions (building huge bonfires). Interesting how these ideas get around.

 

Joan

[Xuzi]

I really don't see Trick or Treating as being any more "begging" than a birthday kid is "begging" for presents by inviting kids to his birthday party. I think it's just a fun tradition. Many families (myself included) "get" as much enjoyment seeing all the cute kids dressed up in their costumes as the kids "get" enjoyment out of the candy.

[Cricket]

We are very conservative Christians and we "do" Halloween. We dress up in non-scary costumes and get candy. Now, I don't go all out with the decorating as some people do. I prefer to keep Halloween as a "low-key" holiday and not rank it up there with Christmas on the decorative/celebratory scale. Christmas is very important to me as a Christian.

 

Now what I don't like is all the gore/blood/etc that seems to accompany Halloween. Since when is dead people and stuff okay? It just seems to be yet another thing that desensitizes our society to death, injury, etc.

 

We are the same. Well, except for the scary costume thing. I think my oldest has always been either a skeleton or a zombie. I've always taken the stance of the Veritas Press article someone posted. We talk about how we don't have to fear death because of what Christ has done for us and treat Halloween as a light-hearted thing and keep it low-key. I like what R. C. Sproul Jr once wrote. One of his daughters asked him why they didn't celebrate Halloween. He told her they were too busy celebrating Reformation Day. That would be fine with me too.

 

This past Halloween though was the first time I really didn't like it. We passed by one house that was decorated in a very gruesome manner and it upset me. To me it seemed more evil than scary. I think in recent years Halloween has grown darker but so have many things. Horror movies really bother me and it seems like there are more and more of them every year. And they are so awful now. Horror movies from when I was a kid are so tame compared to what is out there now. Evil is glorified and it seems like the bad guys are the heroes in the movie. (Don't even get me started on the number of parents who take their toddlers to these movies! My sister likes these movies and is shocked by how many young children are in the theaters with their parents.) The scary costumes used to be ghosts and devils. Now it is serial killers from movies. I don't think it is a Halloween issue but a bigger problem.

[Nestof3]

:iagree:

 

I have never seen it as begging. It's like saying showing up for Christmas morning is begging. We all know how it works. My children have never had to beg for anything in their life, and we are the farthest thing you can think of from entitlement mentality.

 

Wow -- I never thought this thread would go there. I think there is such a thing as over-analyzing something.

 

It almost reminds me of someone who disapproved of us hanging lights on our house during Christmas time. He told me about how his father fell off the roof trying to hang lights. I just told him it that perhaps we should stop cleaning out our gutters too.

 

i wouldn't call it "begging". the people in the houses are prepared with candy & ready to hand it out - it's not like someone unexpectedly asking you for a loonie downtown.

Edited October 12, 2010 by nestof3

[Jenn in Mo]

This past Halloween though was the first time I really didn't like it. We passed by one house that was decorated in a very gruesome manner and it upset me. To me it seemed more evil than scary. I think in recent years Halloween has grown darker but so have many things. Horror movies really bother me and it seems like there are more and more of them every year. And they are so awful now. Horror movies from when I was a kid are so tame compared to what is out there now. Evil is glorified and it seems like the bad guys are the heroes in the movie. (Don't even get me started on the number of parents who take their toddlers to these movies! My sister likes these movies and is shocked by how many young children are in the theaters with their parents.) The scary costumes used to be ghosts and devils. Now it is serial killers from movies. I don't think it is a Halloween issue but a bigger problem.

 

This was why I didn't care for the Veritas Press article. Perhaps at one point, sure. But our society is not mocking these things to vanquish them. Too often, it is imitating.

[freethinkermama]

I really don't see Trick or Treating as being any more "begging" than a birthday kid is "begging" for presents by inviting kids to his birthday party. I think it's just a fun tradition. Many families (myself included) "get" as much enjoyment seeing all the cute kids dressed up in their costumes as the kids "get" enjoyment out of the candy.

 

 

You bet! :)

 

I don't see it begging because it's a GAME! If you buy candy and you want to give it away, you turn on your lights, you put up decorations maybe, you have a jackolantern. That's the way the costumed folks know the people in that house are PLAYING!

 

You don't go to the houses of people who aren't playing. (Well, you shouldn't. Plenty of people come after our lights are out for the night, and we've run out of candy. This is just moronic, as far as I'm concerned.) People need to understand the rules to any game. Some people play and some people don't.

 

Why do I think it's a game? There's a specific night, specific time, specific things you're supposed to do--words you're supposed to say, etc.

 

If you're going to a poor person's house who doesn't have food and isn't playing the Halloween game, it's begging (and you're an idiot). If someone is playing the Halloween game, well. . . .

 

:lol:

[LibraryLover]

 

and found it interesting because in China, for Chinese New Year, they set off tons of firecrackers (fire and noise) to drive away the evil spirits. And here in Switzerland they have enormous fire traditions (building huge bonfires). Interesting how these ideas get around.

 

Joan

 

 

 

They didn't 'get around'. Humans are what they are...and that is...scared. I think you will find most cultures have ways to banish the baddies.

[Nestof3]

My husband says it teaches, "Ask and you shall receive. Knock, and the door shall be opened to you."

 

hee hee

 

You bet! :)

 

I don't see it begging because it's a GAME! If you buy candy and you want to give it away, you turn on your lights, you put up decorations maybe, you have a jackolantern. That's the way the costumed folks know the people in that house are PLAYING!

 

You don't go to the houses of people who aren't playing. (Well, you shouldn't. Plenty of people come after our lights are out for the night, and we've run out of candy. This is just moronic, as far as I'm concerned.) People need to understand the rules to any game. Some people play and some people don't.

 

Why do I think it's a game? There's a specific night, specific time, specific things you're supposed to do--words you're supposed to say, etc.

 

If you're going to a poor person's house who doesn't have food and isn't playing the Halloween game, it's begging (and you're an idiot). If someone is playing the Halloween game, well. . . .

 

:lol:

[Miss Sherry]

 

.........

And so now that I relook at the Halloween tradition and have to ask, what is so Christian (eg VP article - We can hardly object, however, to children collecting candy from friends and neighbors.) about going around asking for candy? Isn't it really 'begging' too?

 

............

Joan

The connotation of begging doesn't fit when we invite someone to our home for a treat we are planning on giving to them. It is understood in the U.S. that if you have your lights on on Halloween that you are inviting the children to come get some candy so I cannot see how that can be equated with begging.

My opinion of VP calling Halloween christian is that they are simply wrong. In all of my life I have never met anyone who believes they are celebrating a christian holiday when they participate in Halloween. It seems they are blending All Saints Day with Halloween, however, they are 2 separate traditions.

Even if some christian connection can be traced back in history to Halloween it certainly is not celebrated as a christian holiday today.

[Miss Sherry]

My husband says it teaches, "Ask and you shall receive. Knock, and the door shall be opened to you."

 

hee hee

Will you be posting that on your door on Halloween night ? :lol::lol::lol:

[Zann]

Our family has never celebrated Holloween. I guess we never really seen any use for it. Instead sometimes we would have costume parties so us kids got to dress up. As a father I have continued that tradition with my own kids.

 

I think people forget that other religions before Christianity had morals and there celebrations where not evil. Pegan is a stigma left by the purge that the Catholic church did of all non-catholic doctorin. (Including Christians)

However Holloween "Doctorine" is that the devil gets one night to come out and play. Which could beg the question in a young mind why do we dress up and celebrate something that has to do with the devil.

 

My kids don't miss it becuase they have costumes in thier playroom and play a dress up. As far as trick or treat I got a soft spot for letting my kids get candy so they are not hurting for it.

[freethinkermama]

My husband says it teaches, "Ask and you shall receive. Knock, and the door shall be opened to you."

 

hee hee

 

 

Love it!

 

:lol:

[KarenNC]

How does one "accidentally" or "unknowingly" worship something? That is what I hear when people say that trick or treating is in some fashion worshiping/honoring/celebrating/etc the devil/evil/other gods/etc, even if that is not the intent of the participant---that the "worship" etc is happening solely because the act resembles in some way something that may at one point have been used as a worship ritual by believers of a different faith.

 

Worship and celebration require specific intent. If that were not the case, then a Christian engaging in the act of prayer might equally be accidentally or unknowingly *really* praying to Isis, Ahura Mazda, Buddha, etc instead of the Christian God, because followers of those other religions also engage/engaged in prayer rituals. Doesn't matter if the words or intent or even the name used for the deity are different, the action is similar. By spilling a drink or watering tomatoes, that same Christian might be unknowingly worshiping Athena, because the Greeks poured libations as part of worship.

 

I can't see a way in which that happens, even if the Christian has a classical education and *knows* that Greeks poured libations to Athena and Egyptians prayed to Isis;). I would be astonished to learn that any Christian believed I am *really* subconsciously celebrating Eucharist (much less doing so in any effective manner:)) when I eat a piece of bread or drink a glass of wine with dinner, so I shouldn't ever eat bread or drink wine because someone might mistakenly think I was a Christian. I am equally not accidentally or unknowingly *really* worshiping or honoring Satan or evil by accident because I dress up or hand out candy to participate in the game of Halloween (great way to express it, btw).

[Imprimis]

 

I have never seen it as begging. It's like saying showing up for Christmas morning is begging. We all know how it works. My children have never had to beg for anything in their life, and we are the farthest thing you can think of from entitlement mentality.

 

Wow -- I never thought this thread would go there. I think there is such a thing as over-analyzing something.

 

 

 

Goodness gracious, no kidding!

[My3Boys]

Ok, I am completely not being snarky here- but the first thing that came to my mind when I read this was- Abraham and Isaac. And yes, I know that Isaac was spared at the last moment- but it was 'commanded' to do this very thing, correct? Not hypocricy?

 

God never intended that Isaac be sacrificed. It was a test of Abraham's obedience. God never commanded humans be sacrificed - only animal, and the animal sacrifices were only to serve as a substitute until Christ came and became the ultimate sacrifice - performing his redeeming work on the cross.

[Jenn in Mo]

How does one "accidentally" or "unknowingly" worship something? That is what I hear when people say that trick or treating is in some fashion worshiping/honoring/celebrating/etc the devil/evil/other gods/etc, even if that is not the intent of the participant---that the "worship" etc is happening solely because the act resembles in some way something that may at one point have been used as a worship ritual by believers of a different faith.

 

I'm not very good at this and was really hoping someone else would jump in and explain it better. Please know that I am grasping for the right words and hoping it makes sense. ;)

 

I agree with you that worship and celebration require conscious choice. The word you chose: honor, is a much better description of what is believed in these cases. The idea is that if God is not being honored through an activity, then who is?

 

Dressing up in fun costumes and giving/receiving candy do not dishonor God, imho. As I said earlier, these have nothing to do with why my family doesn't celebrate Halloween. Dressing up in a costume that terrifies children, hanging fake toddlers in trees, and lining driveways with fake severed heads....these things revel in symbols of death and malice. I know of no one who does these things out of evil intent, they're just having fun! But regardless of their intent, I think evil gets glorified. And I think it scares the snot out of my kids. But if my kids weren't there, I'd still feel uncomfortable with it.

[jazzyfizzle]

God never intended that Isaac be sacrificed. It was a test of Abraham's obedience. God never commanded humans be sacrificed - only animal, and the animal sacrifices were only to serve as a substitute until Christ came and became the ultimate sacrifice - performing his redeeming work on the cross.

 

 

Yes I understand that. What I am saying is, Abraham had to have the intention of obeying, and from what I read (if you believe what it says as completely true) planned to obey the command to burn and kill his child.

[Gooblink]

Yes I understand that. What I am saying is, Abraham had to have the intention of obeying, and from what I read (if you believe what it says as completely true) planned to obey the command to burn and kill his child.

 

Abraham may have carried it as far as God commanded, but I think the text shows he never believed God intended him to sacrifice his son. On their way to the altar site, Isaac did ask where was the lamb to be sacrificed and Abraham answered that God would provide the lamb. God also promised Abraham descendants as numerous as the stars - maybe Abraham trusted God would never require such a sacrifice (or, if He did, He could certainly raise Isaac up again), but carried out the command as an example and faith lesson for Isaac.

[Alenee]

Obviously, I am using some hyperbole because I woudn't exactly word it that way - but the result would be the same - a kid resenting Christ. Maybe he would understand, but at 6 I doubt it.

 

Insight anyone? Please be nice:D.

 

I haven't read the rest of the thread... I know how this thread turns out.

 

But I did want to address this one part that I quoted above. We stopped our celebrating with our kids when our oldest was about 5yo. She has never resented us for stopping and loves Jesus. We feel the same way your friend at Park Day does and none of our children have ever thought it was a bad thing to stop. We don't really even acknowledge it. It's just another day on the calendar.

 

Our 6yo who has never celebrated makes her own comments w/o our input. At the store last week, "Mom, I hate it when Halloween is here. All this scary stuff is really annoying!"

 

If you feel the need to stop celebrating, then your child, ime, will probably not even bat an eye once you explain your beliefs. I truly think parents put far too much weight on the opinions of their kids. If you're the stronger in the situation, it'll all come out just fine.

[gpsings]

I've seen Halloween threads. There are several every year on the Christian boards...

I'm not even going into why...but I am personally convicted not to celebrate it. Our family tries to do something un-halloween related together on that night. We prefer to leave the house, as NOBODY seems to respect that one house that didn't stock up on Snickers bars for their children to beg for.

So, instead of risking an egging, we just go to a movie or something.

I have christian friends who don't agree, and try to have this argument every.single.year...I have chosen not to participate anymore. Pass the bean dip.

We don't do it. That's why. ;)

 

Oh, and Carli's right. The kids really don't care. They find it obnoxious too. I think they totally prefer the quality family time.

[Marylou]

Just out of curiosity, why do people object so much to symbols of death in Halloween ... I'm not talking about the costume where the guy has an axe through his head. I mean skeletons and other symbols of death people have mentioned. I mean, we all die, right? So what is the objection to symbolizing it? I'm not Christian and I'm asking with sincerity.

 

Tara

 

 

Good question.

 

Wisdom speaks: "all who hate me love death" Prov. 8:36

 

Plus, it's just not the way it is supposed to be! Death is an enemy.

 

I hate everything associated with death, whether it's the head with ax, or the skeleton, or the fake tombstones in the neighbor's yard. Detest it.

 

We have nothing to do with Hween, and my children like it that way. They have never asked to participate, and we never say anything derogatory about other Christians who celebrate it.

[ktgrok]

Death is the enemy, which is why we can mock it by putting up the fake headstones and such. But maybe I am just more enamored of gallows humor as I work in a medical field. Gallows humor is how you survive when you work around death. it's a normal human way of dealing with it.

 

 

 

Good question.

 

Wisdom speaks: "all who hate me love death" Prov. 8:36

 

Plus, it's just not the way it is supposed to be! Death is an enemy.

 

I hate everything associated with death, whether it's the head with ax, or the skeleton, or the fake tombstones in the neighbor's yard. Detest it.

 

We have nothing to do with Hween, and my children like it that way. They have never asked to participate, and we never say anything derogatory about other Christians who celebrate it.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I'm not very good at this and was really hoping someone else would jump in and explain it better. Please know that I am grasping for the right words and hoping it makes sense. ;)

 

I agree with you that worship and celebration require conscious choice. The word you chose: honor, is a much better description of what is believed in these cases. The idea is that if God is not being honored through an activity, then who is?

 

Dressing up in fun costumes and giving/receiving candy do not dishonor God, imho. As I said earlier, these have nothing to do with why my family doesn't celebrate Halloween. Dressing up in a costume that terrifies children, hanging fake toddlers in trees, and lining driveways with fake severed heads....these things revel in symbols of death and malice. I know of no one who does these things out of evil intent, they're just having fun! But regardless of their intent, I think evil gets glorified. And I think it scares the snot out of my kids. But if my kids weren't there, I'd still feel uncomfortable with it.

:iagree: I have to agree that I find "gory" Halloween stuff to be too scary. We do Halloween light:D No blood, guts, and gore here:) I also cannot watch and will not let ds watch gory modern horror movies at all. No, we only will watch classic horror shows such as Abbot and Costello Meet the Mummy or the ones from the 1930's and 1940's such as Lon Chaney movies with mom or dad previewing reviews first.

 

Also, I do not like going into Halloween stores since they have so much blood and guts and gore type costumes. What ever happened to Casper the Ghost costumes or Indians or Cowboys or even nice witches:D.

 

I forgot to add that we still feel ds is too young for Lon Chaney at 8:)

Edited October 13, 2010 by priscilla

[Miss Sherry]

This thread has gotten very long, and I don't remember exactly where this came up, but someone made some kind of comment asking why some people have a problem with costumes of the Devil and such.

 

There is some scripture in the New Testament that addresses the idea of mocking spiritual beings which is spoken against in the scripture. ( and the Devil is a celestial being in the sense that he is a fallen angel ).

 

 

2 Peter 2:11

Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.

 

 

 

Jude verse 8-10 In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings. 9But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" 10Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

So the subject of mocking spiritual beings is spoken of in the Bible. I'm not an expert on the subject, but it comes to mind when I hear Christians saying that we are to mock the devil etc. From these scriptures, I think they are wrong on that subject.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

From a note in my Life Application Bible

 

Regarding 2 Peter 2:10

"The celestial beings may be angels, all the glories of the unseen world, or more probably, fallen angels. .....Whoever they are, the false teachers slandered the spiritual realities they did not understand, taking Satan's power lightly and claiming to have the ability to judge evil. ...................Don't take Satan and his supernatural powers of evil lightly and don't become arrogant about how defeated he will be. Although Satan will be destroyed completely, he is at work now trying to render Christians complacent and ineffective. "

Edited October 14, 2010 by Miss Sherry

[Miss Sherry]

I disagree with the article by VP. The verses I quoted above I believe tell Christians we are NOT to mock spiritual beings. The VP article contradicts those scriptures.

This is from the VP article.

"What is the means by which the demonic realm is vanquished? In a word: mockery. Satan's great sin (and our great sin) is pride. Thus, to drive Satan from us we ridicule him. This is why the custom arose of portraying Satan in a ridiculous red suit with horns and a tail. Nobody thinks the devil really looks like this; the Bible teaches that he is the fallen Arch-Cherub. Rather, the idea is to ridicule him because he has lost the battle with Jesus and he no longer has power over us.

(The tradition of mocking Satan and defeating him through joy and laughter plays a large role in Ray Bradbury's classic novel, Something Wicked This Way Comes, which is a Halloween novel.)"

 

I find the entire article to be very strange.

[Nakia]

As always, I am late to this thread. We are Christians, and we love Halloween. It's another big reason I love Autumn! This year my girls are dressing up as cowgirls. :D They were witches last year. It was great fun!! I had the most adorable little witches you have ever seen. They think the skeletons, ghosts, and goblins are very exciting, but they aren't fond of the gory stuff at all and neither am I. We haven't done a haunted house yet because I'm too scared, lol. Maybe when they get a little older, my dh can take them. He's braver than me.

 

It's all what you make it. We make it a fun time to stock up on all the candy that mean ole mommy won't buy the rest of the year. :lol:

 

ETA: Just read the post about dressing up as witches being potentially offensive to those who practice the Wiccan religion (I sincerely hope I am wording that right). I hadn't ever thought of that. Would someone (Audrey perhaps?) care to respond to that?

[Miss Sherry]

As always, I am late to this thread. We are Christians, and we love Halloween. It's another big reason I love Autumn! This year my girls are dressing up as cowgirls. :D They were witches last year. It was great fun!! I had the most adorable little witches you have ever seen. They think the skeletons, ghosts, and goblins are very exciting, but they aren't fond of the gory stuff at all and neither am I. We haven't done a haunted house yet because I'm too scared, lol. Maybe when they get a little older, my dh can take them. He's braver than me.

 

It's all what you make it. We make it a fun time to stock up on all the candy that mean ole mommy won't buy the rest of the year. :lol:

 

ETA: Just read the post about dressing up as witches being potentially offensive to those who practice the Wiccan religion (I sincerely hope I am wording that right). I hadn't ever thought of that. Would someone (Audrey perhaps?) care to respond to that?

On the subject of haunted houses, I have heard that they have become much more graphic and much too scary for a lot of children,compared to what they were years ago.

[Miss Sherry]

It's all what you make it. We make it a fun time to stock up on all the candy that mean ole mommy won't buy the rest of the year. :lol:

 

How far ahead do you stock up on Halloween candy ? :bigear:

 

If I buy it anytime before Halloween my husband and daughter get into it. Sometimes I hide it, but they find it. You would think I hid it so they can go on a treasure hunt. :tongue_smilie: Since I have to buy more anyway if I buy it ahead, now I just wait until the last minute. Maybe I can think of a better hiding place and be sure they do not see me bring it into the house. :D:lol:

[Joan in GE]

I disagree with the article by VP. The verses I quoted above I believe tell Christians we are NOT to mock spiritual beings. The VP article contradicts those scriptures.

This is from the VP article.

"What is the means by which the demonic realm is vanquished? In a word: mockery. Satan's great sin (and our great sin) is pride. Thus, to drive Satan from us we ridicule him. This is why the custom arose of portraying Satan in a ridiculous red suit with horns and a tail. Nobody thinks the devil really looks like this; the Bible teaches that he is the fallen Arch-Cherub. Rather, the idea is to ridicule him because he has lost the battle with Jesus and he no longer has power over us.

(The tradition of mocking Satan and defeating him through joy and laughter plays a large role in Ray Bradbury's classic novel, Something Wicked This Way Comes, which is a Halloween novel.)"

 

I find the entire article to be very strange.

 

I find it quite strange too. And I have bought a fair amount of VP materials in the past.

 

About mocking, considering Ps 1....Blessed is the man who does not sit in the seat of mockers....it seems to be a dubious activity...

 

Also Satan disguises himself as an "angel of light" (II Cor 11:14)...not at all evil looking...if people are just looking for something evil-looking, they might not recognize him....

 

Joan

[KarenNC]

On the subject of haunted houses, I have heard that they have become much more graphic and much too scary for a lot of children,compared to what they were years ago.

 

I agree, it's very hard to find "spooky" vs. "80s slasher movie." There was an article in the paper the other day saying that the link of Halloween and the slasher genre started in the 80's. We don't do slasher. We're more on the Vincent Price end of things :D.

 

I am also not very impressed with the Christian groups who decide to mount "Hell Houses" as a proselytization tool. http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_he.htm They are equally as horrific as any of the other haunted houses. The Hell House kits are an outreach of the New Destiny Center of the Assemblies of God. Their facebook page says they aren't selling the kits this year as they just moved, but plan to return next year. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Northglenn-CO/Hell-House-Outreach/141218774939. One of the Baptist churches in our area has one scheduled for this year and there have been others for a number of years.

 

I see them as basically live action Jack Chick tracts, the kind that folks in our area have stuck in my young child's Halloween bag http://www.chick.com/default.asp. We even had someone (presumably someone who is part of one of the groups who rents space at our UU church during the week) decide it was appropriate to stuff them in the little activity bags we keep for use by our young children during Sunday service. Luckily, the first one was in my kids' bag so we were able to catch it. The end doesn't justify the means.

[ma23peas]

I just can't picture telling my 6 yo ds who loves decorating for all holidays and who loves trick or treating, "Sorry son, Jesus says Halloween is evil - no trick or treating anymore." Talk about turning a kid against Jesus! Obviously, I am using some hyperbole because I woudn't exactly word it that way - but the result would be the same - a kid resenting Christ. Maybe he would understand, but at 6 I doubt it.

 

Insight anyone? Please be nice:D.

 

I'll fall back to Philippians 4:8 on this one...and for us we do find things that are wonderful through Halloween, we have dear friends who we have a tradition of trick or treating with every year, no gory costumes, usually characters from some literary piece or fun movie...

 

It's all in your heart of it, if you focus MORE on Halloween than on the way you lead your life as a Christian, than perhaps it has become an idol in your life...the same thing with Xbox a cellphone or other...we don't decorate a whole bunch, a few pumpkins outside and a special night with dear friends....where we ARE sharing our faith, our spiritual gifts and fellowship...it's a special thing to my children b/c they love their friends so dearly...that to me comes first.

 

Tara

[lionfamily1999]

I find it quite strange too. And I have bought a fair amount of VP materials in the past.

 

About mocking, considering Ps 1....Blessed is the man who does not sit in the seat of mockers....it seems to be a dubious activity...

 

Also Satan disguises himself as an "angel of light" (II Cor 11:14)...not at all evil looking...if people are just looking for something evil-looking, they might not recognize him....

 

Joan

It sounds, imo, like another trick of the world. Sort of like making marraige sound like a bummer and parenthood sound like the end of a happy life.

 

"God helps those who help themselves," imo, falls into that catergory as well.

 

It's another reminder not to take the words of men without comparing them to the Word.

[Gwenhwyfar]

On the subject of haunted houses, I have heard that they have become much more graphic and much too scary for a lot of children,compared to what they were years ago.

 

some of them are indeed scary/gory and not for little kids.

 

those are the best ones. :laugh:

 

(we have one here every year ~ it's a fundraiser for a local charity. they actually have separate times if you have younger kids that want to go but aren't quite ready for the full on scare. i'm not sure exactly what they do during the younger time as my kids are older, but i know it's changed so that it's not as creepy. i think they keep the lights on, nobody jumps at you out of the dark, that kinda thing.)