Halloween......CC

[Miss Sherry]

Don't know..my family is Russian and it's always been my mom's (and mine)favorite holiday. But my father was born in NY(to Russian immigrants) and my mom was born in Paris(to Russian parents as well)...

I went to a Catholic school and everyone celebrated it..like I said before we were aloud to dress up in our costumes at school so it seems the church was o.k. with it...

When I was talking about people I knew that didn't do Halloween it was mostly Protestant homeschoolers...

I know you were talking about other homeschoolers. I was simply sharing another "Halloween" experience in my own neighborhood that was different. There are so many different backgrounds people have that we are likely to eventually come across someone with a whole other bent on it than ourselves.

 

The Russian and Romanian people I was referring to had not been in the US long and some of them did not even speak English.

[Guest]

We have never celebrated Halloween and it has never caused my dc to resent Christ, lol!

 

It probably has to do with the way we explain our reasons.

If you don't really believe it's wrong, you won't sound convincing and then I can see where a child may be confused and resentful.

 

I don't try and talk others into abandoning their Halloween traditions, though, like maybe you're friend was trying to do? I don't expect anyone to try and change my mind either.

This is usually a topic where the bean dip gets brought out pretty quickly :D

 

Well... we don't do Halloween. My childish-sounding reason why is just that I think it's dumb:) I think Santa is dumb and the Easter bunny and Valentine's Day. Essentially I spurn anything that fills entire seasonal departments in stores and makes one feel obligated to buy stuff and to celebrate in a certain way. My kids play dress-up every day, they get their faces painted by Grammy quite frequently, we eat too much candy as it is.

 

I don't care if anyone else wants to do Halloween. I don't agree with the argument that it gives "the appearance of evil". That bothers me and I see it frequently. Should we be more concerned about how we look than how we act? Either you are doing/thinking evil or you are not.

 

Can you tell me your reasons why you don't celebrate? We have before, but did not the past few years... I was considering it this year, but then read an article that made me think we should just go to church instead. I'm not sure if I am being silly or not.

 

Here is the article I read, if anyone is interested:

 

http://heartofwisdom.com/blog/should-christians-observe-halloween/

 

*The two videos (in the link) are good, also. The second one is done by a former witch.

 

 

ETA: I don't tell my kids about Santa or the Easter bunny, either. We don't worship God in a pagan way (by celebrating their holidays), if that makes sense. Although, if something is a cultural thing, I don't see a problem with it.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Jinnah

[Miss Sherry]

Don't know..my family is Russian and it's always been my mom's (and mine)favorite holiday. But my father was born in NY(to Russian immigrants) and my mom was born in Paris(to Russian parents as well)...

I went to a Catholic school and everyone celebrated it..like I said before we were aloud to dress up in our costumes at school so it seems the church was o.k. with it...

When I was talking about people I knew that didn't do Halloween it was mostly Protestant homeschoolers...

But see, you are saying it has always been you and your Moms favorite holiday - so of course you find fun in it because over the years you have been participating in it. I was referring to some people who in the country they came from they have spent their lives not participating in it and so they do not have fond memories of it. So your experiences do not match. I didn't make it clear. I wasn't trying to say they matched, but just sharing a different perspective. I guess I like to hear about various experiences people have.

[TXMary2]

There really needs to be a sarcasm smiley. It is hard to read sarcasm over the internet. It is one of my main methods of humour, and I feel very limited online in not being able to use it. :001_smile: Sometimes I use a wink, but that doesn't always work. Of course, there are those IRL who don't get sarcasm. :001_huh:

 

I got your point, I think. It was a hyperbolic representation of what this woman was implying, right?

 

 

Yes, thank you. I agree we need a sarcasm smiley. I forget that words on a screen rarely represent the actual tone that is in my head. :tongue_smilie:

[Tenaj]

I haven't read the whole thread through (Ugh, it's Friday p.m. and I still have a math lesson to teach and I'm on the forums again), but we quit celebrating Halloween many years ago (about 10 probably). I never worried too much about the dressing up (I loved making cute costumes for my littles). Our tipping point was realizing how it led to so much selfishness in our children which is not a character trait we wanted to encourage. The whole trick or treat thing is so self-centered that we just decided to get rid of the tradition in our house. I do buy Halloween candy and make them treat bags so all we got rid of was the "act" of begging for more, more, more. The year we quit was the year that I found Halloween candy still in our house at Easter time. Just too much!!

 

We also moved at the same time to a less populated area so that it made it easier to give up. My older kids always look forward to Halloween because their grandparents live in a subdivision and their job is to go and pass out the candy (they get a lot of trick-or-treaters). My youngers don't partcipate because of some of the really scary and gross costumes that are around now. Not worth the nightmares in my opinion.

 

I do understand the whole avoid the appearance of evil argument and I do think that the spirit of Halloween has changed in recent years - I know the last few years that we did do Halloween, the costumes seemed to range more toward the violent/evil variety rather than the cute stuff we had seen in prior years.

[Miss Sherry]

One of the things that has bothered me about Halloween in the past few years is that I am noticing that some of the children's costumes are a lot uglier and more gruesome looking than I remember ever seeing in years past. To the point that my 15 year old doesn't even want to look at them when we open the door.

I'm all for having fun, and don't mind the innocent costumes of Minnie Mouse and such, but the gruesomeness of some of the others is getting way out of hand. Almost makes you want to put a "G" rating on your door if you have young children in the house or not answer the door on Halloween to protect their eyes. Really, there were several come to the door last Halloween that I would not have wanted my 2 year old granddaughter to see. "Fun" is not seeing a 2 year old cry in fear.

[TXMary2]

She's using those terms as illustrations of what she might recognize as evil and saying that Halloween doesn't fit that definition for her. But because she's running into people who do feel that it is evil, she's feeling conflicted and perhaps a bit insecure in her convictions regarding the holiday.

 

Clearly, my writing skills are lacking! LOL Yes, I was thinking that just about the only ways Halloween would be evil (to me) was if we were performing a satanic ritual or something equally dastardly. I just don't get why dressing up cute and collecting candy gives an appearance of "evil."

 

Whatever, it doesn't matter I guess. I know what we are doing isn't meant to slight Christ or glorify satan - we are just having fun!! In my opinion it is a great part of childhood that I want my kids to enjoy.

[Miss Sherry]

 

........- I know the last few years that we did do Halloween, the costumes seemed to range more toward the violent/evil variety rather than the cute stuff we had seen in prior years.

I see we were posting at the same time and had the same thought on how costumes have been changing in recent years.

If the trend continues for the next few years and leans more and more towards gruesomeness, as much as I do enjoy passing out the candy and seeing all the little kids in their costumes, honestly, I don't know how much longer I'll continue to participate.

Kids in their cute costumes is one thing - but blood and guts and offensive ugliness is something else.

I wonder how much of it depends on where you live - how much gruesomeness there is , I mean.

[silliness7]

http://resources.veritaspress.com/Oct05_epistula.htm

 

Here's the article from Veritas Press arguing that Halloween with all it's trappings (well maybe not the candy) is a distinctly Christian holiday.

[Britomart]

This is the verse:

 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+8&version=NIV

 

So, the spirits and idols some believe are attached to Halloween are nothing. BUT, some people are deceived and attach power to those things in weakness and defile their own conscious.

 

We who know better, CAN still party, but here's the crux, if THEY (seeing us) party, AND STILL BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF THE IDOLATRY, then we sin against them. The crux is in their belief still being in the idol. They still give it power, AND eat, and we sin against them in our freedom.

 

 

Thanks for the link. I went and looked it up, and the part I was thinking of was actually a little further in the epistle, in chapter 10, where it says:

 

But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake[a]— 29the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours.

 

He goes on to say that his listeners need not feel bound in their own conscience. But that was the bit I was thinking of - of not eating if you knew it had been sacrificed. Interesting of course to read the reason why, but I'm glad my memory hadn't completely failed me! :001_smile:

[Miss Sherry]

http://resources.veritaspress.com/Oct05_epistula.htm

 

Here's the article from Veritas Press arguing that Halloween with all it's trappings (well maybe not the candy) is a distinctly Christian holiday.

deleted. never mind. I just think they are incorrect to call Halloween christian.:tongue_smilie:

Edited October 8, 2010 by Miss Sherry

[justamouse]

Thanks for the link. I went and looked it up, and the part I was thinking of was actually a little further in the epistle, in chapter 10, where it says:

 

But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake[a]— 29the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours.

 

He goes on to say that his listeners need not feel bound in their own conscience. But that was the bit I was thinking of - of not eating if you knew it had been sacrificed. Interesting of course to read the reason why, but I'm glad my memory hadn't completely failed me! :001_smile:

 

I interpret that latter verse completely differently.

[Britomart]

I interpret that latter verse completely differently.

 

Forgive me, I don't think I was clear; I wasn't offering an interpretation of the verse (I'm still pondering what was said upthread), I was just rejoicing that my memory's not going, and that there actually was a place that said something about not eating food sacrificed to idols in a specific situation.

[Quiver0f10]

Seriously?

 

Employ Google and your local library. Do the research yourself and come up with your own conclusion. Find out for yourself so you are satisfied with which ever answer you come up with. Otherwise you will be continually confused and swayed one way or another. Be able to agree or disagree with authority. And while you are researching don't use only (evangelical ?) Christian books or websites. Go to a few Pagan websites and see what they thing Samhain is.

 

.

 

:iagree: know what you believe and why and stand fast to that. What others believe doesn't matter.

 

fwiw we don't celebrate halloween. It's none of my business if you ( collective you) celebrate it. To each their own.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Quiver0f10

[SweetMissMagnolia]

:iagree:

 

yes agree---halloween is what you make of it....look into the REAL history of halloween and celebrate the parts you agree with and be happy.....

[Liz CA]

Yup, this is how I see it. Also, if children get the impression that being Christian means you cannot have any (clean, harmless) fun, the whole concept does not look very appealing. Let's consider how much a child understands according to their age.

[simka2]

Joanne- your kid's reaction is the kind of reaction my kids have had. We went into Bartell's once where they had a motion activated ghoulish butler next to the door - oh, the curdling screams! The store personnel came rushing to apologize but I noticed that they didn't move it. After that, I'd leave dd in the car and run in, while being frightened that someone would report me for child abuse for leaving her unattended.:glare:

 

This happened to dh last night! A parent didn't pick up their kid from soccer practice so dh had to drive him home or leave him at the dark park. Dh also was picking up something at the store really quick for me. So he ran in, leaving 4 9yr olds in the the car. A mile from home he got pulled over, because a concerned citizen called the cops. When the cop saw him in his coahes outfit...he sent him on his way!

[simka2]

Sorry. You are all wrong. Halloween is evil because people hand out mini reese's pb cups and I steal them from my kids (I mean trade them for money so my children can be healthy), eat them all and gain 10 pounds! All on my hips.

 

 

:iagree:DEFINATELY!!!!

[Mergath]

I usually giggle to myself when I hear somebody say they don't celebrate Halloween because of the Pagan roots. Honestly, there are so many facets of modern society- and even Christian tradition- derived from Pagan traditions, that if you avoided everything with an indirect connection (and the similarities between Halloween and the ancient harvest festivals and Samhain are certainly very weak) you'd never be able to leave your house. Really, you wouldn't even be able to speak, since most language can ultimately be traced back to origins in pagan societies.

 

I'm not a big fan of the gruesome costumes either, but that has nothing to do with the holiday's supposed pagan roots. That's all on modern American society.

 

Also, someone posted a link to an article that had a section by a "former witch." I can't watch it where I'm at now, but I've seen quite a few of these in my time, and none of the things described have had anything in common with actual Paganism. It's usually some kind of bastardized Satanism, and has nothing to do with what my family believes. Honestly, most of those videos are very offensive to real Pagans.

[Miss Sherry]

I usually giggle to myself when I hear somebody say they don't celebrate Halloween because of the Pagan roots. Honestly, there are so many facets of modern society- and even Christian tradition- derived from Pagan traditions, that if you avoided everything with an indirect connection (and the similarities between Halloween and the ancient harvest festivals and Samhain are certainly very weak) you'd never be able to leave your house. Really, you wouldn't even be able to speak, since most language can ultimately be traced back to origins in pagan societies.

 

I'm not a big fan of the gruesome costumes either, but that has nothing to do with the holiday's supposed pagan roots. That's all on modern American society.

 

Also, someone posted a link to an article that had a section by a "former witch." I can't watch it where I'm at now, but I've seen quite a few of these in my time, and none of the things described have had anything in common with actual Paganism. It's usually some kind of bastardized Satanism, and has nothing to do with what my family believes. Honestly, most of those videos are very offensive to real Pagans.

If a person wanted to be really fanatical , they couldn't even use a calendar, due to the names of the week. :tongue_smilie::lol:

 

Once I was in a pizza place and my change owed back to me came to $6.66. The cashier became very nervous and would not say the amount out loud. I thought it was humorous. I think that some christian's get mixed up and tend to start behaving in ways that are more superstitious ( as in being controlled by fear - if I do x than y could happen to me) than it is Biblical.

[Miss Sherry]

I think the celebration of Halloween is what you make it.

 

We choose to make it about Mom getting lots of Almond Joys and Reeses Peanut Butter Cups from the kids' loot. :001_smile:

I was thinking of maybe giving up Halloween one of these years but now you have revived my interest in it. Halloween should definitely be about Mom getting lots of Almond Joys and Reeses Peanut Butter Cups. :thumbup:

[Trish]

We pretty much celebrate Halloween the way the OP does, with cute or fun costumes, trick or treating (and giving out treats at our house). However I'm still aware of the evil that is celebrated on that day, and try to stay as far away from that aspect as possible.

 

The last time we went into one of those big temporary Halloween stores that pop up at this time of year, we of course were looking for the cute costumes. (last year) and they DID have them. But to get to that part of the store we had to walk past a LOT of really evil and ghoulish looking stuff (couldn't they have put the bloody murder scene in the back of the store? or put the kids' stuff more to the front?) It seemed like it catered at least as much to adults as to children. Off to the left (which I steered the kids away from) was this whole scary/sexy area that was clearly adult oriented.

 

My mother in law was creeped out, and after we came out (with our fun costumes) said maybe we should not shop there next year. I agree with her, I'm going to order costumes online. Maybe it's me, or maybe it was the atmosphere, but it FELT bad to me.

 

And I'm ALWAYS creeped out by cute little kids dressed as Michael Myers or various other characters who are basically killers. I'm not crazy about cute little witches either, but I don't have girls so it isn't really my issue.

 

This didn't bother me so much when I was younger. Is it because I'm a parent? Or more spiritual now than then? Or better informed? Or more paranoid? I don't know.

 

So I'm not going to judge anyone, but I try to stay away from the stuff that creeps me out. Why give evil a foothold is the way I look at it.

[Miss Sherry]

I know this has the potential to get ugly, but I am hoping everyone will play nice. I am having an internal struggle over the Halloween issue. For years I have gone back and forth with how I feel etc. We have never NOT done Halloween. The guidelines I have had over the years that haven't changed are:

 

No scary costumes or decorations

No attending "haunted houses"

 

In the past there were some years that we didn't trick or treat but instead attended a church "harvest" festival.

 

When we "celebrate" halloween all we do is dress up, carve pumpkins and trick or treat. We don't participate in any satantic rituals or anything obviously evil, yet today I am feeling like I might be wrong to acknowledge Halloween at all - and I am irritated by this.

 

Yesterday a mom at Park Day was casually chatting with me about Halloween and the reasons they don't celebrate. I have felt I always fall in the "it isn't big deal to dress up and collect candy" camp. This mom says that christians saying it is "no big deal" are in denial because the Bible says to avoid even the appearance of evil. I understand what she is saying, but in my mind I am still saying it is no big deal because of my guidelines. How is putting on a cute costume and collecting candy giving "an appearance of evil?" I am not understanding. How are our smiling deocorations and cute little pumpkins an "appearance of evil?" Am I nuts? In denial?

 

I just can't picture telling my 6 yo ds who loves decorating for all holidays and who loves trick or treating, "Sorry son, Jesus says Halloween is evil - no trick or treating anymore." Talk about turning a kid against Jesus! Obviously, I am using some hyperbole because I woudn't exactly word it that way - but the result would be the same - a kid resenting Christ. Maybe he would understand, but at 6 I doubt it.

 

Insight anyone? Please be nice:D.

 

I think you could drive yourself crazy trying to find out about every aspect of everyone's beliefs regarding Halloween. Since it 's so close to Halloween already, I would just go with what you have already been doing, staying away from satanic worship practice with it (just kidding ), stay away from the parts you don't want to participate in as you already have been doing.

Also,I wouldn't worry about thinking your child is going to resent Christ if you don't do Halloween - unless you blame it on Christ and somehow communicate to your child that it's Christ that doesn't want him to have any fun. LOL I don't think there's any danger in that happening since you're not going to do that. :001_smile:

There's 12 months until Halloween comes around again next year. If you are really concerned about learning more about all of the different beliefs around Halloween it wouldn't hurt to take your time and look into it between now and then.

But whatever you decide to think and do about Halloween someone else is going to see it differently.

 

What you may want to also do is, do some studying on what is meant in the Bible by avoiding an appearance of evil. I think it's impossible to avoid everything that someone may be offended by so we have to figure out what will really harm someone if we do it and what is simply an issue of someone else wanting to control our actions. I think it's the people we have IRL relationships with that matter and I think the verse is referring to christian fellowship and christian living, not any and all people and any and all relationships. Maybe I am missing something in that regard. I have not taken a look at that passage in a long time.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Miss Sherry

[Guest]

I usually giggle to myself when I hear somebody say they don't celebrate Halloween because of the Pagan roots. Honestly, there are so many facets of modern society- and even Christian tradition- derived from Pagan traditions, that if you avoided everything with an indirect connection (and the similarities between Halloween and the ancient harvest festivals and Samhain are certainly very weak) you'd never be able to leave your house. Really, you wouldn't even be able to speak, since most language can ultimately be traced back to origins in pagan societies.

 

I'm not a big fan of the gruesome costumes either, but that has nothing to do with the holiday's supposed pagan roots. That's all on modern American society.

 

Also, someone posted a link to an article that had a section by a "former witch." I can't watch it where I'm at now, but I've seen quite a few of these in my time, and none of the things described have had anything in common with actual Paganism. It's usually some kind of bastardized Satanism, and has nothing to do with what my family believes. Honestly, most of those videos are very offensive to real Pagans.

 

I do think it is Satanism. She said (her words, not mine) that she is a "former witch". She talks a lot about Druids and Samhain... is that what offends you?

[Gwenhwyfar]

I do think it is Satanism. She said (her words, not mine) that she is a "former witch". She talks a lot about Druids and Samhain... is that what offends you?

 

say what?

 

satanist ≠ witch ≠ druid

 

(and so on)

[Guest]

say what?

 

satanist ≠ witch ≠ druid

 

(and so on)

 

 

I'm just telling you what this lady said. She is a former witch. She was talking about Druids and the origins of Halloween.

 

She also talked about human sacrafices... that's where most people come to the conclusion that she may have been involved in some form of Satanism.

[bethben]

Here's what we do for Halloween. We get fast food, get a good kids movie and let them eat the candy of their choice. We don't open the door to trick or treaters because most of them would scare our daughter. They look forward to it each year and don't feel like they're missing out. It's turned into a nice family night.

 

Also, we usually tell people the reason we do it is to save $100 on costumes, candy, ect. Besides, it's really cold outside that time of year and all our kids can't trick or treat anyway.

 

Beth

Edited October 9, 2010 by bethben
,

[simka2]

I do think it is Satanism. She said (her words, not mine) that she is a "former witch". She talks a lot about Druids and Samhain... is that what offends you?

 

 

I think the point some people are trying to make is that Paganism is all around us and we embrace some forms, but freak out from others.

 

As, to the "former witch"...sometimes I wonder what really came first. As, far as I can see All Hallows Eve is a Christian holiday (before you eat me alive please read entire thread and links) so I can't help but wonder if more conservative Christians gave it more power for evil than it had. Then "so called" witches, ran with the drama of it?

 

Just some thoughts :001_smile:

[Guest]

I think the point some people are trying to make is that Paganism is all around us and we embrace some forms, but freak out from others.

 

As, to the "former witch"...sometimes I wonder what really came first. As, far as I can see All Hallows Eve is a Christian holiday (before you eat me alive please read entire thread and links) so I can't help but wonder if more conservative Christians gave it more power for evil than it had. Then "so called" witches, ran with the drama of it?

 

Just some thoughts :001_smile:

 

Simka, don't worry, I would never eat you alive for anything! Thanks for your thoughts!

 

I do see the point about how some forms of paganism are embraced, and others are not. I try to avoid the religious forms if possible, or in other words, I avoid worshiping God in the ways He mentions not to in the Bible. I'm not concerned about things like the days of the week, ya know? ;)

[Little Nyssa]

We are also serious Christians-- we personally don't feel the need to avoid Halloween, but we do feel like we need to "baptize" it (as the early Church did with many pagan customs):

1. no scary costumes for our family

2. no visiting stores with scary costumes prominently displayed, and reserving the right to complain to the management (as I did at a hospital once-- the dept of antenatal testing had big pictures of horrifying monsters-- the last thing a worried pregnant lady needs to see!!-- after that the next year they had cute pictures of kitties with pumpkins, etc.)

3. trick-or-treating in a leisurely way so as to make it a time to chat with neighbors & participate in our community, not just grab candy

4. carve at least some of our pumpkins with Christian symbols

5. encourage neighborhood kids to make creative costumes by giving out a prize to the best costume of the evening (a friend thought of this--though I have never gotten around to it I think it's a great idea!!)

6. Trick-or-treating for Unicef-- did you know you can still do this? you can. They raise like $2 million/year.

7. take this opportunity to talk with dc about history of Halloween

[tabmtbc]

I'm not a Christian and I love Halloween, but with that said, I cannot fathom how a cute costume gives an "appearance of evil" either. Anymore than dressing up for a school play or a recital or whatever, or "playing dressup," it's just for fun and tradition. I don't really get taking it so seriously or making it about "evil."

Agreeing with this poster.

[Nestof3]

This is our first year out of 12 years of marriage that our boys are dressing up and going trick-or-treating. I was also in the avoid appearance of evil -- have nothing to do with Satan camp.

 

But then I realized that I didn't know anyone who thought Halloween was anything more than dressing up and having fun. Sure, there are probably some people out there sacrificing cats or doing something evil that night, but that's probably the case on any night.

 

My boys ARE very sensitive about scary and gory things, though. And, I am glad. I don't get the knife in the head thing. That really does happen to people. They don't like scary masks and such. We went to the caverns one year, and they were decorated for a Halloween performance at night. We knew nothing about it, and the props stayed during the day. As soon as we entered the actual caverns, there were plastic babies with blood oozing out of their eyes. There was a sign that read, "Bloody Babies."

 

This is just disgusting to me. Why would anyone poke fun at that?

[KarenNC]

I do think it is Satanism. She said (her words, not mine) that she is a "former witch". She talks a lot about Druids and Samhain... is that what offends you?

 

What I find offensive about the videos is that they are flat wrong about things they present as "facts". Dislike Halloween or anything else, but do it based on accurate information.

 

Video 1: It's not "Sam-hane," it's pronounced "sow-en." They don't mention that we have very little information on the Druids and their practices except from the Romans, who were their enemies, which makes their objectivity rather suspect ;). We just don't know what they did or what it meant. The Catholic Encyclopedia disputes that the date of Christmas was based on Yule, as claimed. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm

Note that the quote from Anton LeVay says, "After one's own birthday....." LeVay's Satanism is basically self-worship, not the worship of a theistic deity as imagined by most Christians. See http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanism.htm for more information. Their purpose is to unsettle, etc. There may be some practitioners of theistic Satanism, but the followers of LeVay aren't among them. That would imply that there was *any* god greater than one's self.

 

Video 2: see above related to the sources of (lack of) information on Druidic practices. There is *no* evidence for *any* "Celtic God of the Dead named Samhain." I find it odd that a "practicing witch" would refer to it as "Sam-hane," when I've only ever heard it pronounced "Sow-en" in many, many years among the Pagan community, including by any practicing Wiccan I've ever met (at least who's been practicing more than a few weeks and has talked in person to another NeoPagan, rather than just reading a book from Llewellyn).

 

As to being done by a former witch, would you want one's primary source of information on Christian beliefs and practices to be a former Christian who apparently makes her living converting people from Christianity to her new religion and convincing them that Christianity is evil? Or would you rather that person ask a practicing Christian?

 

Consider the accusations against the early Church:

http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/history/persecution.htm

"On a more social, practical level, Christians were distrusted in part because of the secret and misunderstood nature of their worship. Words like "love feast" and talk of "eating Christ's flesh" sounded understandably suspicious to the pagans, and Christians were suspected of cannibalism, incest, orgies, and all sorts of immorality." This same culture (Rome) is the source of all of our information on the practices of the Druids, the religious class of the enemy they were set on conquering. How much more vested interest might they have had in describing as repugnant and evil the religious practices of their enemies when they said the above about the Christians who were part of Roman society?

[KarenNC]

FYI, as Neopagans (note that we are not Wiccan, btw), our family celebrates Halloween as an American cultural holiday that has nothing to do with our religious practices. We have fun with costumes, spooky movies, parties with friends, trick-or-treating, etc. We don't do gruesome, etc as we prefer spooky ;).

 

We deliberately celebrate Samhain at a separate time, which includes a lot of talking about and remembering our ancestors and eating seasonal foods. In general, it's about noting the turning of the seasons, as well as relating them to the "seasons" of our lives, both overall and in smaller segments. This season will be particularly poignant as we have a friend who is close to death from ovarian cancer.

 

Also for the record, to the general "you" to whom this might apply, please don't send your kids out with tracts or hand one that look like comic books out to neighbor kids along with (or instead of) the candy. You wouldn't want me or my kid covertly proselytizing your kid to a religion other than Christianity. See Matthew 7:12.

[Britomart]

FYI, as Neopagans (note that we are not Wiccan, btw), our family celebrates Halloween as an American cultural holiday that has nothing to do with our religious practices.

 

Thanks for this perspective; it's really interesting. It reminds me of how I view all the cutesy Santa Claus decorations I see every December: they're festive and all, but they have very little to do with the real St. Nicholas, the bishop of the ancient church. And even less to do with our family's celebration of the nativity of Christ.

[KarenNC]

Thanks for this perspective; it's really interesting. It reminds me of how I view all the cutesy Santa Claus decorations I see every December: they're festive and all, but they have very little to do with the real St. Nicholas, the bishop of the ancient church. And even less to do with our family's celebration of the nativity of Christ.

 

Exactly. We also very deliberately separate our celebrations of Winter Solstice from our cultural celebration of Christmas (we even do separate small trees decorated distinctly differently :)) and our celebrations of the vernal Equinox from the Easter Bunny (though that's the easiest because of the greater difference in dates usually). For many of the Neopagans that I know, there is a distinction between the costume party aspects of Halloween and the religious observances of Samhain. For many others, they are as intermingled as Santa and the Nativity are for many Christians.

 

For us, participating in trick or treating, Santa stockings (and, yes, he's very different than St. Nicholas :)) and Easter baskets is pretty much on par with 4th of July fireworks, Memorial Day cookouts and Thanksgiving turkey dinner---an American cultural holiday and ritual.

Edited October 10, 2010 by KarenNC

[Haiku]

We don't participate in any satantic rituals or anything obviously evil

 

This made me chuckle a bit because we are not Christian but we don't participate in satanic or obviously evil rituals when we celebrate Halloween either. I'd venture to say that 99.9% of people who celebrate Halloween don't. ;)

 

My best advice would be to ask yourself what you are celebrating when you celebrate Halloween. Imo, Halloween is a cultural holiday that is about little kids dressing up and getting candy. Regardless of what it may or may not have begun as back in the misty days of yore, American culture has made it what it is today, and I don't think you have a darn thing to feel guilty about.

 

Tara

[Karis]

I avoid worshiping God in the ways He mentions not to in the Bible.

 

 

Would you care to give an example of what you mean by this?

 

also, as far as the Veritas Press article - I never heard that "vanquish" = "mock"

[In2why]

I love Halloween and we do SCARY. But if your child is "sensitive" I think that the music, black light, and smoke would tell you not to come down my driveway.

 

I don't consider it evil....and if you do please skip my house. :glare:

[ChristusG]

We are very conservative Christians and we "do" Halloween. We dress up in non-scary costumes and get candy. Now, I don't go all out with the decorating as some people do. I prefer to keep Halloween as a "low-key" holiday and not rank it up there with Christmas on the decorative/celebratory scale. Christmas is very important to me as a Christian.

 

Now what I don't like is all the gore/blood/etc that seems to accompany Halloween. Since when is dead people and stuff okay? It just seems to be yet another thing that desensitizes our society to death, injury, etc.

[Guest]

Would you care to give an example of what you mean by this?

 

also, as far as the Veritas Press article - I never heard that "vanquish" = "mock"

 

 

Deut. 12:29-32

 

 

29 The LORD your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, 30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, "How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same." 31 You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods. 32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.

 

 

This link explains it further:

 

http://www.abcog.org/nh/vain.htm

 

 

 

Also, I've never seen the Veritas Press Article, and I have never mocked anyone here. :confused: Either you didn't mean it toward me (even though I was quoted) or you are mistaking me for someone else.

[Erica in PA]

I know this has the potential to get ugly, but I am hoping everyone will play nice. I am having an internal struggle over the Halloween issue. For years I have gone back and forth with how I feel etc. We have never NOT done Halloween. The guidelines I have had over the years that haven't changed are:

 

No scary costumes or decorations

No attending "haunted houses"

 

In the past there were some years that we didn't trick or treat but instead attended a church "harvest" festival.

 

When we "celebrate" halloween all we do is dress up, carve pumpkins and trick or treat. We don't participate in any satantic rituals or anything obviously evil, yet today I am feeling like I might be wrong to acknowledge Halloween at all - and I am irritated by this.

 

Yesterday a mom at Park Day was casually chatting with me about Halloween and the reasons they don't celebrate. I have felt I always fall in the "it isn't big deal to dress up and collect candy" camp. This mom says that christians saying it is "no big deal" are in denial because the Bible says to avoid even the appearance of evil. I understand what she is saying, but in my mind I am still saying it is no big deal because of my guidelines. How is putting on a cute costume and collecting candy giving "an appearance of evil?" I am not understanding. How are our smiling deocorations and cute little pumpkins an "appearance of evil?" Am I nuts? In denial?

 

I just can't picture telling my 6 yo ds who loves decorating for all holidays and who loves trick or treating, "Sorry son, Jesus says Halloween is evil - no trick or treating anymore." Talk about turning a kid against Jesus! Obviously, I am using some hyperbole because I woudn't exactly word it that way - but the result would be the same - a kid resenting Christ. Maybe he would understand, but at 6 I doubt it.

 

Insight anyone? Please be nice:D.

 

Here is something that may help you: that passage does not mean what your friend thinks it does. 1 Thess. 5:22 says to avoid "every appearance of evil." If you read the context, it's plain that Paul isn't talking about avoiding things that may look like evil to others-- instead, he is saying to avoid evil, in every instance. I.e. "avoid every instance of evil." This verse has been widely misinterpreted and used to support legalism over the years, and it's very freeing to understand it in its proper context. Paul is saying that evil exists, and that we should stay away from it, in every form that it shows itself-- not that we need to avoid any activity that might look like evil to someone else.

 

We are Christians who celebrate Halloween as you've done. Fun family supper, non-scary costumes, and trick or treating. Even though we have many Christian friends who feel differently, my husband and I have carefully considered all their arguments, and we honestly don't feel any pang of conscience over it whatsoever-- if we felt it was dishonoring to God in any way, we certainly wouldn't do it. It's innocent family fun, and that is all. If some feel that avoiding Halloween helps them to be a better light in their neighborhood and families, that is fine; personally we have found the opposite to be true: we have been able to build our positive relationships with our neighbors through trick or treating, and I think both friends and family members appreciate that we are able to have fun in this way, while still maintaining our Christian testimony.

[jewel7123]

We dress up in cute costumes (nothing scary, no witches, devils, etc.) and go to a select few friends and family to let my girls trick or treat. I would never let my kids eat candy from a stranger. That being said, with Halloween being on a Sunday this year, we will not be trick or treating. I'm not about to do that instead of taking my children to church. We plan on going to a local Fall Festival next weekend and that will be my girls opportunity to dress up.

[susankenny]

Wow. I have loved this thread! It makes me feel normal!!!!

 

We are Christian & also participate in trick or treating. I put out Fall decorations, and they stay out through Thanksgiving. We like to carve pumpkins & my kids do dress up in costumes (but nothing scary). We go to a few neighbors homes every year and then a fall festival. I am discovering more & more that Christians in my circle do not trick or treat. I don't understand how their kids dressing up and attending a fall festival is different than my kids dressing up and getting candy from some neighbors before heading to the festival. Yes, it's trick or treating, but it's in my very own neighborhood...with neighbors that are wonderful people! I also (gasp) leave out a huge bowl of candy with a note that says to please take a piece. My husband and I both grew up trick or treating, and we have the most amazing childhood memories.

[Miss Sherry]

Here is something that may help you: that passage does not mean what your friend thinks it does. 1 Thess. 5:22 says to avoid "every appearance of evil." If you read the context, it's plain that Paul isn't talking about avoiding things that may look like evil to others-- instead, he is saying to avoid evil, in every instance. I.e. "avoid every instance of evil." This verse has been widely misinterpreted and used to support legalism over the years, and it's very freeing to understand it in its proper context. Paul is saying that evil exists, and that we should stay away from it, in every form that it shows itself-- not that we need to avoid any activity that might look like evil to someone else.

 

We are Christians who celebrate Halloween as you've done. Fun family supper, non-scary costumes, and trick or treating. Even though we have many Christian friends who feel differently, my husband and I have carefully considered all their arguments, and we honestly don't feel any pang of conscience over it whatsoever-- if we felt it was dishonoring to God in any way, we certainly wouldn't do it. It's innocent family fun, and that is all. If some feel that avoiding Halloween helps them to be a better light in their neighborhood and families, that is fine; personally we have found the opposite to be true: we have been able to build our positive relationships with our neighbors through trick or treating, and I think both friends and family members appreciate that we are able to have fun in this way, while still maintaining our Christian testimony.

Interesting. I'll have to go over that passage keeping what you just said in mind.

[Miss Sherry]

Wow. I have loved this thread! It makes me feel normal!!!!

 

We are Christian & also participate in trick or treating. I put out Fall decorations, and they stay out through Thanksgiving. We like to carve pumpkins & my kids do dress up in costumes (but nothing scary). We go to a few neighbors homes every year and then a fall festival. I am discovering more & more that Christians in my circle do not trick or treat. I don't understand how their kids dressing up and attending a fall festival is different than my kids dressing up and getting candy from some neighbors before heading to the festival. Yes, it's trick or treating, but it's in my very own neighborhood...with neighbors that are wonderful people! I also (gasp) leave out a huge bowl of candy with a note that says to please take a piece. My husband and I both grew up trick or treating, and we have the most amazing childhood memories.

I don't take my own children trick or treating anymore, because they are too old, but I do miss it.My youngest is 15. I may go with my granddaughter this year. But when I did take my children around the neighborhood it was always fun to come across neighbors I had met but didn't know which house they lived in until trick or treating.

[wendylee]

Honey, we are a Christian family. And I tell my kids that it is their DUTY to get out there and get as much loot as they possibly can. :lol: Mama needs her chocolate!

 

We have a ball with it. Dress up, pumpkins, silly scare jokes, the works. We also go completely nuts at Christmas. Seriously, NASA is going to have to compute our electric bill this year with all the lights that DH is planning on putting up.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

When we lived in the US, we decorated, dressed up, went to parties at different locations and had a lot of fun. We did the no scary part as well. Culturally, in the US, I don't believe there is an appearance of evil about it if you are participating in the non-scary, fall, harvest aspect. It's not necessarily the celebration of evil in the US for the most part.

 

Since we've moved here, it's all completely changed. The cultural aspect here of Halloween is very spiritual and very dark. This is a supersticious society with strongholds in evil that go back centuries. There are some lighter sides to this time of year--lots of kites, celebration of passed loved ones--but, there is also a lot of worship of darker things. Because of this, we have chosen not to participate. We did special stuff as a family when the kids were younger, but, now that they're older we don't do anything much--maybe some decorating if we can find a pumpkin.

 

This is to avoid the "appearance of evil" for those we minister to in Guatemala. We are being culturally sensitive to what we have been told and taught here is a very dark time. If we were to participate, it would appear as though we embrace all of the happenings when in reality we don't. We want to avoid even having to explain that, so we don't participate.

[hillfarm]

Although dh and I grew up celebrating Halloween and continued to do so while we were dating, as we became stronger in our Christian faith, we both have felt convicted that this event is not for us. We do not celebrate any aspect of it. Although my dd does love shopping the after-event sales for various wigs and costume items that she can use throughout the rest of the year.

 

That said, we do not condemn anyone, Christian or otherwise, who chooses to embrace Halloween.

 

I will attempt to explain a bit of my belief. First, I am big on symbolism. I love how an abstracted picture or behavior can represent something much more complex. The sign of the fish, for example. When I began to research Halloween, primarily from historical documents, I began to recognize that most of what I had considered to just be fun Halloween traditions actually were symbolic of things that did not fit with my religious beliefs. Even though most participants are not aware of the origins of the traditions, those origins still exist.

 

Secondly, we lived in an area where there was a large immigrant population from the Carribean islands, several of whom did practice some very dark religions. The local police officers went around the local neighborhoods warning people to stay clear of a heavily wooded area and to take their pets in during the week before Halloween. They also recommended that day cares and nursery schools beef up their security precautions. A few years before we moved there, a child was abducted, apparently to be used in sacrificial rituals by one of the groups. That opened my eyes to the fact that while the mainstream saw Halloween as a happy, fun, family-friendly event, that there was still a very dark current lying below that surface.

 

And finally, I read a religious tract about it that really touched my heart. I know that sounds silly, and I rarely read tracts because most of them are so dull, reactionary, overly-simplified, and often theologically lacking. However, this one really convicted me and brought me to the point of praying to God to determine whether we should celebrate Halloween or not. It emphasized the symbolic connections that I had already studied, gave the verses about how much God hates for Christians to follow other gods, and finally, gave the analogy related to a popular movie at the time, the title of which escapes me now. The question was posed regarding how your husband would feel if you promised to be 100% faithful to him 364 days a year but all bets were off on that one last day-you could flirt with other men, go out with them, take gifts from them, and even have "tea" if you chose. The tract went on to say that that is how Halloween is for many Christians, who are model adherents of the faith 364 days a year but for that one night surround themselves with non-Christian symbols, go to parties where there is excessive drinking and other inappropriate things going on, if not themselves dressing up in the trappings of death or demons then encouraging others who have done so, participating in seyances (this was popular when I was a kid and teen) attempting to talk with spirits of the dead, and our holy God is supposed to turn His head while we are up to all this and to act as if nothing has happened on November 1.

 

So, this is how I believe. I am not open to fighting about it, so please save your rotten tomatoes. I fully realize that this is only MY conviction, so I don't expect others to jump on board. I don't judge others who have not felt called to my level of non-observance. I offer this only because I felt that there may be a reader out there somewhere who was conflicted and I wanted to offer another point of view for their consideration.

 

BTW, we don't do pseudoHalloween harvest festivals either. A rose by any other name.... We are perfectly fine with this, and other than dd becoming a bit anxious for any of our animals that we can't bring into the house for a few days, we don't even acknowledge Halloween. She does not resent God or Jesus, she does resent those who would sacrifice someone's pet as part of some dark ritual.

[Kari C in SC]

Ughh...this frustrates me beyond belief...(could be pregnancy hormones..but still)...

I've only ever experienced this within the homeschooling community. Before I moved to N.C. I had never heard of someone not celebrating Halloween...not that people didn't do it, I just never heard of it...I went to a parochial school for 9 years and we got to dress up for Halloween for school(they even..gasp..had Santa come during Christmas time)...

Why does so many have to take this so seriously? Why can't we just have fun and enjoy the day without all of that? I have several friends who don't do Halloween and don't even talk about it and while it's their choice please don't shove it down my throat or tell my children it's an evil day and we shouldn't dress up. My boys have mentioned several times about so and so saying we shouldn't do it and sometimes my boys ask if it's o.k...that gets on my nerves! I love, love, love Halloween. I love to dress up and visit *spooky* houses. I love to *get scared*...it's all in fun...

By the way, I consider myself a very devout Christian(Orthodox)... I just don't take things like this so seriously...life should be fun!

 

:iagree: