Jump to content

Menu

Halloween......CC


Recommended Posts

I know this has the potential to get ugly, but I am hoping everyone will play nice. I am having an internal struggle over the Halloween issue. For years I have gone back and forth with how I feel etc. We have never NOT done Halloween. The guidelines I have had over the years that haven't changed are:

 

No scary costumes or decorations

No attending "haunted houses"

 

In the past there were some years that we didn't trick or treat but instead attended a church "harvest" festival.

 

When we "celebrate" halloween all we do is dress up, carve pumpkins and trick or treat. We don't participate in any satantic rituals or anything obviously evil, yet today I am feeling like I might be wrong to acknowledge Halloween at all - and I am irritated by this.

 

Yesterday a mom at Park Day was casually chatting with me about Halloween and the reasons they don't celebrate. I have felt I always fall in the "it isn't big deal to dress up and collect candy" camp. This mom says that christians saying it is "no big deal" are in denial because the Bible says to avoid even the appearance of evil. I understand what she is saying, but in my mind I am still saying it is no big deal because of my guidelines. How is putting on a cute costume and collecting candy giving "an appearance of evil?" I am not understanding. How are our smiling deocorations and cute little pumpkins an "appearance of evil?" Am I nuts? In denial?

 

I just can't picture telling my 6 yo ds who loves decorating for all holidays and who loves trick or treating, "Sorry son, Jesus says Halloween is evil - no trick or treating anymore." Talk about turning a kid against Jesus! Obviously, I am using some hyperbole because I woudn't exactly word it that way - but the result would be the same - a kid resenting Christ. Maybe he would understand, but at 6 I doubt it.

 

Insight anyone? Please be nice:D.

Edited by TXMary2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 153
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I'm not a Christian and I love Halloween, but with that said, I cannot fathom how a cute costume gives an "appearance of evil" either. Anymore than dressing up for a school play or a recital or whatever, or "playing dressup," it's just for fun and tradition. I don't really get taking it so seriously or making it about "evil."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well, actually halloween originally was done to scare of "evil" spirits by dressing like them. It never really was anything like worshipping the devil or anything. In my neighbor hood we really dec out for halloween and do a contest on who got more kids:D. Think like the kids, its just a fun holiday full of fun and candy and dressing up. that doesnt sound very "evil" to me. if a kid dresses up as a devil, does he really want to be the devil? no, of course not , he just wants a cool costume to get candy with. in my opinion, GO HALLOWEEN:party:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does she believe putting a Christmas tree in her front window is "the appearance of evil"? (another Pagan tradition co-opted by Christianity - although of course Halloween isn't recognized as a Christian holiday of course, but many Christians celebrate it, including myself)

 

IMO, I think the only people who see it as anything evil are the Christians who say that it is. I've never in my life met a non-Christian who was shocked that Christians would celebrate such a "Satanic" holiday as Halloween. It's cute kids in cute costumes collecting candy. I don't exactly see how that brings any glory or joy to Satan.

 

Are there people who do evil on Halloween? Ask anyone who works for an animal shelter and they'll say YES. But those people would find any excuse they can to do the things they do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ughh...this frustrates me beyond belief...(could be pregnancy hormones..but still)...

I've only ever experienced this within the homeschooling community. Before I moved to N.C. I had never heard of someone not celebrating Halloween...not that people didn't do it, I just never heard of it...I went to a parochial school for 9 years and we got to dress up for Halloween for school(they even..gasp..had Santa come during Christmas time)...

Why does so many have to take this so seriously? Why can't we just have fun and enjoy the day without all of that? I have several friends who don't do Halloween and don't even talk about it and while it's their choice please don't shove it down my throat or tell my children it's an evil day and we shouldn't dress up. My boys have mentioned several times about so and so saying we shouldn't do it and sometimes my boys ask if it's o.k...that gets on my nerves! I love, love, love Halloween. I love to dress up and visit *spooky* houses. I love to *get scared*...it's all in fun...

By the way, I consider myself a very devout Christian(Orthodox)... I just don't take things like this so seriously...life should be fun!

Edited by mommyoftwinboys
poor grammar and spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, it's that time of year again.

The annual Halloween Thread.

Fall is here.

 

:D

 

 

We dress up, go trick or treating, and carve a pumpkin. That's it. We like fall, we like tradition, we even like scary movies (just the adults). We are the farthest thing from Satanic worshippers. We don't appear evil. We don't celebrate anything with Halloween except the American cultural interpretation.

 

But I fully agree with folks that YMMV, in this and many other cultural interpretations of holidays. For me, the intention is key--not so much for other folks, and that is fine. I know there is real evil out there, believe me. I don't celebrate it for a moment. I am not giving Satan a foothold, I am just allowing my kid to dress up and get candy, and carve a pumpkin, because it's fall and it's fun. That's it.

 

Go with your gut.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seriously?

 

Employ Google and your local library. Do the research yourself and come up with your own conclusion. Find out for yourself so you are satisfied with which ever answer you come up with. Otherwise you will be continually confused and swayed one way or another. Be able to agree or disagree with authority. And while you are researching don't use only (evangelical ?) Christian books or websites. Go to a few Pagan websites and see what they thing Samhain is.

 

P.S. For the record we are Catholic and celebrate Halloween in a big way then the next day fulfill our holy day of obligation.

Edited by Parrothead
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seriously?

 

Employ Google and your local library. Do the research yourself and come up with your own conclusion. Find out for yourself so you are satisfied with which ever answer you come up with. Otherwise you will be continually confused and swayed one way or another. Be able to agree or disagree with authority. And while you are researching don't use only (evangelical ?) Christian books or websites. Go to a few Pagan websites and see what they thing Samhain is.

 

P.S. For the record we are Catholic and celebrate Halloween in a big way then the next day fulfill our holy day of obligation.

 

I don't care enough to go that far....that is why I asked here. We aren't going to stop doing Halloween, I guess I just want to not feel irritated after conversations like the one from yesterday.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't care enough to go that far....that is why I asked here. We aren't going to stop doing Halloween, I guess I just want to not feel irritated after conversations like the one from yesterday.

 

It's where the heart is...not the legalism...If A doesn't like Halloween, fine...if B likes Halloween, fine...IMHO they can both be good Christians.

 

[sarcasm]

If a person can see past the beam in their own eye, I'm sure they can study the lives of others long enough to find THAT ONE THING that PROVES they're not really Christian.

/sarc off

some examples from my experience include dancing, alcohol, vulgar language, dress, Halloween, Christmas Trees, unruly children, unwillingness to sing in the Choir or teach a Bible class, attendance at teen club, hair coloring, smoking, coffee, medication, responsibility with money..I could go on all day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's where the heart is...not the legalism...If A doesn't like Halloween, fine...if B likes Halloween, fine...IMHO they can both be good Christians.

 

[sarcasm]

If a person can see past the beam in their own eye, I'm sure they can study the lives of others long enough to find THAT ONE THING that PROVES they're not really Christian.

/sarc off

some examples from my experience include dancing, alcohol, vulgar language, dress, Halloween, Christmas Trees, unruly children, unwillingness to sing in the Choir or teach a Bible class, attendance at teen club, hair coloring, smoking, coffee, medication, responsibility with money..I could go on all day.

 

LOL- good point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your friend, like many, many others, is misinformed.

 

Read these two artcles: The History of Halloween Pt. 1 and Pt. 2.

 

Love the articles, Ellie. I was surprised to read the World Book Encyclopedia was carrying misinformation regarding Samhain. I don't know why I should be surprised, as I'm always preaching to my kids not to blindly believe anything they read, from any source.

 

This paragraph spoke to me:

 

 

I’m not sure that anything is gained by calling pagans, Satanists or demon worshippers.
It’s easy to view yourself as God’s agent and to brand people with strong labels. Then you can justify not relating to them in grace. You can begin to hate and fear them. And eventually you can persuade yourself that as agents of Satan they deserve persecution
(i.e. the inquisition and witch burnings). This goes against everything that Jesus taught about reaching out to pagans (1 Corinthians 5:9-13) and loving our enemies (Matthew 5:43-48), and showing mercy to them (Luke 6:27-36).
The truth is that sometimes Christians end up acting more like Satan, than pagans do.

 

 

 

When I was a new Christian, I wore legalism like a badge of spiritual maturity. Now, 20 years later, I view legalism is a crutch for the spiritually weak.

 

Yes, we do Halloween! :) We carve pumpkins, dress in costume, trick-or-treat and BEST OF ALL we get to hand out a bunch of yummy treats to our precious neighbor kids.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't do Halloween. But - I don't care if anyone else does Halloween. In my case, I grew up in a culture that did not celebrate Halloween and it just is not an important holiday for me. In addition, my sensitive children were seriously frightened by all things Halloween when they were little - to the point where my dd would have panic attacks if there were any decorations in the drug store or grocery store. It made shopping around this time, quite a challenge! I'm not sure why I'm posting this except to give the perspective of someone who doesn't celebrate but doesn't tie it into spiritual reasons.

 

I guess for you, if you are objectively looking at what you like and why you do certain things, then you should do as you think best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I just can't picture telling my 6 yo ds who loves decorating for all holidays and who loves trick or treating, "Sorry son, Jesus says Halloween is evil - no trick or treating anymore." Talk about turning a kid against Jesus! Obviously, I am using some hyperbole because I woudn't exactly word it that way - but the result would be the same - a kid resenting Christ. Maybe he would understand, but at 6 I doubt it.

 

Insight anyone? Please be nice:D.

 

We have never celebrated Halloween and it has never caused my dc to resent Christ, lol!

 

It probably has to do with the way we explain our reasons.

If you don't really believe it's wrong, you won't sound convincing and then I can see where a child may be confused and resentful.

 

I don't try and talk others into abandoning their Halloween traditions, though, like maybe your friend was trying to do? I don't expect anyone to try and change my mind either.

This is usually a topic where the bean dip gets brought out pretty quickly :D

Edited by Sophia
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even when I was a more traditional Christian, I never understood the intensity of Halloween = evil thing.

 

Culturally, it's a playful ritual. Evil, IMO, is *intent*.

 

We dress, we watch horror movies and we "do" haunted houses. It's more than fine with me if you (collective) don't. It's when people start asserting Halloween = evil, or it's a gateway, or believe urban myths about it that I get irritated.

 

I am never comfortable when faith is restrictive, uptight, rigid and not playful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I figure it goes along with the idea of meat sacrificed to idols. Yes, some people may use the holiday in a way that is bad, but you know what you are using it for. If it's ok to eat meat sacrificed to pagan idols I'm pretty sure it's ok to eat candy given out on halloween :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seriously?

 

 

 

P.S. For the record we are Catholic and celebrate Halloween in a big way then the next day fulfill our holy day of obligation.

 

We do both too, and our homeschool club will be dressing as saints on the first Friday as well, so I actually end up putting together two costumes per kid! (And they never seem to pick things I can reuse, unless there's a St. Spiderman canonized :lol:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It sounds like you want to do Halloween, but you are now not as confident in that decision because of what this mom said, and you want others to back you up. I can't post anything pro-Halloween, because that's not what I believe, so I can't help you there. (FTR, I don't think it is evil in and of itself, I just find it unnecessary.)

 

I just wanted to say that not celebrating Halloween does NOT cause a child to resent Christ. If your children are raised with love to respect your decisions (you explain them, you are consistent, you have your own fun, etc.,) they will not become resentful. Instead of feeling denied or resentful, they will instead embrace the traditions of their own family.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well... we don't do Halloween. My childish-sounding reason why is just that I think it's dumb:) I think Santa is dumb and the Easter bunny and Valentine's Day. Essentially I spurn anything that fills entire seasonal departments in stores and makes one feel obligated to buy stuff and to celebrate in a certain way. My kids play dress-up every day, they get their faces painted by Grammy quite frequently, we eat too much candy as it is.

 

I don't care if anyone else wants to do Halloween. I don't agree with the argument that it gives "the appearance of evil". That bothers me and I see it frequently. Should we be more concerned about how we look than how we act? Either you are doing/thinking evil or you are not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't know there were so many Christians who DID celebrate Halloween. Growing up, we were strictly forbidden to have anything to do with it because it was evil. Same for Mardi Gras. Not sure what their reasons were other than that. Even though I have nothing to do with Christianity now, I still have a hard time doing the whole Halloween thing with my kids because of how ingrained it was that I was going to h#ll if I celebrated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well... we don't do Halloween. My childish-sounding reason why is just that I think it's dumb:) I think Santa is dumb and the Easter bunny and Valentine's Day. Essentially I spurn anything that fills entire seasonal departments in stores and makes one feel obligated to buy stuff and to celebrate in a certain way. My kids play dress-up every day, they get their faces painted by Grammy quite frequently, we eat too much candy as it is.

 

:D My answer to many things is: "I'm not opposed; I just think it's pointless." It's a great way to shut down an argument. Good to know I'm not the only one!! :001_smile:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I totally understand your struggle as I have been there myself. We also have never NOT done Halloween...it was my all time favoite holiday as a child. And I also have the rule of nothing scary and no haunted stuff.

 

I also run in conservative circles where Halloween is considered evil and true Christians don't participate. Years back I had a good friend who was like-minded and we would wink at each other and enjoy Halloween while not making it a big deal with our mutual friends who did not. About this time (maybe 5 years ago) I got my October epsitula from Veritas Press, conservative bastion of reformed thinking, in which they defended Halloween quite eloquently and tied that in to gargoyles on medeival churches...which is an interesting aside. Anyway, I forwarded it to my friend and we've been celebrating Halloween without the guilt now for these years. Still nothing scary, haunted, etc. and I'm still not blatant about it with my many friends who do not do Halloween.

 

I do not know if the article is still online somewhere or if you are a big enough fan of Veritas Press's theology for that to even help you. I did stumble upon ONE Christian blog a few years ago who was also trying to de-evilize Halloween by explaining how our Halloween customs developed in our country. It's as much related to the Druids as our pagan Christmas trees. ;) So if you feel comfortable with one you should feel comfortable with the other. From what I gather when the Irish immigrants came over they brought with them their Halloween celebrations which, again, were not devil worshipping but mischievous pranks. Well these pranks were contagious and could quickly get out of hand. If I remember correctly from the article the Boy Scouts (don't know the logistics of it) started the current custom of trick or treating as as a community service idea to eliminate the pranks.

 

Now I have no sources to cite and no websites to link but if you want to google around and see what else you can find regarding those issues maybe it could help you put the festive back in your holiday. :001_smile:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ughh...this frustrates me beyond belief...(could be pregnancy hormones..but still)...

I've only ever experienced this within the homeschooling community. Before I moved to N.C. I had never heard of someone not celebrating Halloween...not that people didn't do it, I just never heard of it...I went to a parochial school for 9 years and we got to dress up for Halloween for school(they even..gasp..had Santa come during Christmas time)...

Why does so many have to take this so seriously? Why can't we just have fun and enjoy the day without all of that? I have several friends who don't do Halloween and don't even talk about it and while it's their choice please don't shove it down my throat or tell my children it's an evil day and we shouldn't dress up. My boys have mentioned several times about so and so saying we shouldn't do it and sometimes my boys ask if it's o.k...that gets on my nerves! I love, love, love Halloween. I love to dress up and visit *spooky* houses. I love to *get scared*...it's all in fun...

By the way, I consider myself a very devout Christian(Orthodox)... I just don't take things like this so seriously...life should be fun!

A few years ago when we lived in another neighborhood there were some families from Romania and Russia. None of them participated in Halloween.By the way, none of them were homescooling. When we went around the neighborhood for Halloween they all had their lights off. But I suppose that coming from a country where they did not grow up with that tradition it would be odd to start now.

One of my daughters has a Russian friend, whose family does not participate in Halloween, but we asked if she could dress up in an American Girl outfit -( it was a girls size Kirsten dress and we had another American Girls dress my daughter wore ) for the girls to wear to a church Harvest Party and her Mom was fine with it. That was the first time my daughters friend did anything in connection with Halloween.

 

If you can imagine what it would be like to look at Halloween for the first time, coming from a country where you were not exposed to it as a child so you have no fun memories of dressing up in costumes for it, I can understand why the families from Romania and Russia in our old neighborhood did not participate.

 

But it is coming from a different perspective for people who have been a part of this culture all of their lives.

Edited by Miss Sherry
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't care enough to go that far....that is why I asked here. We aren't going to stop doing Halloween, I guess I just want to not feel irritated after conversations like the one from yesterday.

Than just let it go and try not to concern yourself with your friends thoughts on it. Just figure she needs to do what she needs to do but you don't need to see things her way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I figure it goes along with the idea of meat sacrificed to idols. Yes, some people may use the holiday in a way that is bad, but you know what you are using it for. If it's ok to eat meat sacrificed to pagan idols I'm pretty sure it's ok to eat candy given out on halloween :)

 

Fwiw, my recollection of that passage says that you're not supposed to eat meat sacrificed to idols if you know that it has been sacrificed, but that it's okay if you're ignorant of it.

 

And, for me, that's what celebrating Halloween comes down to. If you're unaware of a reason you shouldn't, well, you're not violating your conscience, are you? But if your conscience troubles you about it, then you shouldn't.

 

My conscience troubles me about it, so I don't. But I don't assume bad things about the people who do, because I don't know what their intentions or convictions are.

 

 

Costumes and pumpkins and candy don't bother me (well, candy bothers me in that it has a bad effect on my waist!). What does bother me? Mostly that it seems to promote a view of death that I disagree with. I wrote about that once here.

 

Also, the ghosts and witches trouble me. I don't think ghosts generally hang around after death, and if they do, it's not particularly funny (ghosts being the spirit of a person, and why would it be entertaining to think of a human being, without home in place or in body, wandering around lost?), so it bothers me to see them made an object of fun.

 

As for the witches, they are generally cartoonish, so you could say that A) they mean nothing (so why bother?) or B) they are making fun of a genuine religious belief (so . . . in this culture that would be bad, right? I'm not sure) or C) they are making my children think well of a genuine religious belief that I genuinely think is false and harmful (and I'm aware any witches would also genuinely disagree with my religious beliefs, which, fair enough) or D) they are there for some purpose I have yet to fathom (again, in which case, why should I bother if I don't understand it?). I'm not sure any of those options are options I want to get behind, and since I'm not sure, I don't. (I don't think doing things you don't have a reason to do is a good rule of life.) And when they're not cartoonish but rather frightening, well, then my problem with them is simple. I don't like looking at terrifying and ugly things for entertainment.

 

So, that's why I'm one of the "so serious" ones. I think if it was just about candy, you wouldn't need the ghouls and ghosts.

 

 

Again, I don't assume bad things about folks who celebrate Halloween, because I don't know their reasoning for doing it. But since I do feel uneasy about it I don't celebrate it, and I hope no one will think bad things about me (or my kids) because I don't. I know I could well be "the weaker brother" here! But if I am, hey, that's what I am. I can live with that. :)

Edited by Britomart
spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have an Evangelical Christian friend who thinks Halloween is evil, so she celebrates "Harvest Festival" instead. It just makes me smile to think how much closer to paganism she's getting by avoiding "Halloween".

 

The "Harvest Festival" that looks just like Halloween except in name bugs me.

 

How about these two variations:

 

1. We don't do Halloween. It is evil. My dc only dress up and trick-or-treat so that they can donate the candy to the homeless shelter.

 

2. We don't do Halloween. It is evil. My dc dress up and trick-or-treat, but they hand out tracts to the houses they go to.

 

Yes, I have heard both of these. :D We wouldn't want our religious beliefs to get in the way of our dc being like everyone else and having a good time. ;) :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We allow our kids to dress up in appropriate costumes and attend the harvest festival at church. If we could avoid Halloween at home, we would not participate in the harvest festival either. However, kids knock on their door all night even though we turn off the porch light, left off the main lights in the house, and put up signs saying we were had no candy...so we have to go somewhere and church is the only place we've found where my sensitive kids won't be terrified.

 

History:

 

I used to believe as you do. I wanted to participate in Halloween; DH didn't. However, it was my job to open the door all night and tell the kids we were not handing out candy. I finally convinced him to let me buy and hand out candy one year. I was six months pregnant and left to walk to the store to buy the candy on Halloween day. I passed a house decorated with what appeared to be a very realistic toddler hung by a noose. I didn't take that well. It was sick. Pervert. Evil. I turned around without the candy and went home.

 

Fast forward a couple of years. DD is terrified of Halloween decorations. Every time we go Walgreens, Costco, places that decorated and sold Halloween stuff, she'd scream/cry in terror. We tried staying home, turning off the porch light, turning off all of the house lights (only TV on for something to do), and putting a sign on the door and porch column saying we had no candy. Kids knocked and rang the doorbell all night until 11pm. We tried going out to dinner to miss a majority of the trick or treating; our server was dressed in a scary costume, and my daughter screamed/cried/tried to hide every time he came to the table. We tried going window shopping at stores we thought would be safe but found scary decorations. On top of that, people do more evil things around that day than regular days...tainted candy, murders, abusing cats, etc. Where do you go when no where is safe? Church.

 

Now, I don't like the harvest festivals either because they look like Halloween in every way except for the fact that our church as a gospel message disguised as a kids show as part of theirs. To me, it is just Halloween with a different name, which doesn't make it NOT Halloween.

 

Yeah, kids dressing up as a cute animal and asking for candy isn't evil...however so much surrounding Halloween is not good in my opinion.

 

P.S. I'm particularly sore about this subject this year because my neighbor on the corner as a life-sized animated witch on her porch. My toddler is terrified of it. Ever since our car was vandalized, we park around the corner because it's a lower traffic street. We walk by this witch nearly every day as she clings to me in terror. She begins freaking out the moment we turn that direction...two houses away. I'm afraid to take her to stores with me.

 

I'm no longer a fan of Halloween.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We allow our kids to dress up in appropriate costumes and attend the harvest festival at church. If we could avoid Halloween at home, we would not participate in the harvest festival either. However, kids knock on their door all night even though we turn off the porch light, left off the main lights in the house, and put up signs saying we were had no candy...so we have to go somewhere and church is the only place we've found where my sensitive kids won't be terrified.

 

History:

 

I used to believe as you do. I wanted to participate in Halloween; DH didn't. However, it was my job to open the door all night and tell the kids we were not handing out candy. I finally convinced him to let me buy and hand out candy one year. I was six months pregnant and left to walk to the store to buy the candy on Halloween day. I passed a house decorated with what appeared to be a very realistic toddler hung by a noose. I didn't take that well. It was sick. Pervert. Evil. I turned around without the candy and went home.

 

Fast forward a couple of years. DD is terrified of Halloween decorations. Every time we go Walgreens, Costco, places that decorated and sold Halloween stuff, she'd scream/cry in terror. We tried staying home, turning off the porch light, turning off all of the house lights (only TV on for something to do), and putting a sign on the door and porch column saying we had no candy. Kids knocked and rang the doorbell all night until 11pm. We tried going out to dinner to miss a majority of the trick or treating; our server was dressed in a scary costume, and my daughter screamed/cried/tried to hide every time he came to the table. We tried going window shopping at stores we thought would be safe but found scary decorations. On top of that, people do more evil things around that day than regular days...tainted candy, murders, abusing cats, etc. Where do you go when no where is safe? Church.

 

Now, I don't like the harvest festivals either because they look like Halloween in every way except for the fact that our church as a gospel message disguised as a kids show as part of theirs. To me, it is just Halloween with a different name, which doesn't make it NOT Halloween.

 

Yeah, kids dressing up as a cute animal and asking for candy isn't evil...however so much surrounding Halloween is not good in my opinion.

 

P.S. I'm particularly sore about this subject this year because my neighbor on the corner as a life-sized animated witch on her porch. My toddler is terrified of it. Ever since our car was vandalized, we park around the corner because it's a lower traffic street. We walk by this witch nearly every day as she clings to me in terror. She begins freaking out the moment we turn that direction...two houses away. I'm afraid to take her to stores with me.

 

I'm no longer a fan of Halloween.

 

Joanne- your kid's reaction is the kind of reaction my kids have had. We went into Bartell's once where they had a motion activated ghoulish butler next to the door - oh, the curdling screams! The store personnel came rushing to apologize but I noticed that they didn't move it. After that, I'd leave dd in the car and run in, while being frightened that someone would report me for child abuse for leaving her unattended.:glare:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, it's that time of year again.

The annual Halloween Thread.

Fall is here.

 

:D

 

 

We dress up, go trick or treating, and carve a pumpkin. That's it. We like fall, we like tradition, we even like scary movies (just the adults). We are the farthest thing from Satanic worshippers. We don't appear evil. We don't celebrate anything with Halloween except the American cultural interpretation.

 

But I fully agree with folks that YMMV, in this and many other cultural interpretations of holidays. For me, the intention is key--not so much for other folks, and that is fine. I know there is real evil out there, believe me. I don't celebrate it for a moment. I am not giving Satan a foothold, I am just allowing my kid to dress up and get candy, and carve a pumpkin, because it's fall and it's fun. That's it.

 

Go with your gut.

 

Totally agree.:iagree:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We don't do scary on Halloween. I myself have gone over whether or not to celebrate. You are the only who can make the right decision for your family. There is information to support the ladies point of view and information that doesn't. We do celebrate Halloween and are Christian. I too do not see anything evil about letting my kids dress up and get candy.

Edited by OregonNative
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am sorry you didn't recognize my sarcasm.

 

There really needs to be a sarcasm smiley. It is hard to read sarcasm over the internet. It is one of my main methods of humour, and I feel very limited online in not being able to use it. :001_smile: Sometimes I use a wink, but that doesn't always work. Of course, there are those IRL who don't get sarcasm. :001_huh:

 

I got your point, I think. It was a hyperbolic representation of what this woman was implying, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am sorry you didn't recognize my sarcasm.

 

No, actually I didn't recognize it at all. Nothing else in your post seemed sarcastic; it all seemed completely sincere to me. Which is why I was sincere in my reply---- I didn't know whether conservative Christians actually believe that those who celebrate Halloween by dressing up, carving pumpkins and going trick-or-treating also participate in satanic rituals. I don't know anyone IRL who does not celebrate Halloween, but then again, I don't really know any conservative Christians except for the new family who moved in around the corner. I dont' really know them, but I'd guess they don't do Halloween.

 

There was nothing to cue me in that you were being sarcastic.

 

astrid

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, actually I didn't recognize it at all. Nothing else in your post seemed sarcastic; it all seemed completely sincere to me. Which is why I was sincere in my reply---- I didn't know whether conservative Christians actually believe that those who celebrate Halloween by dressing up, carving pumpkins and going trick-or-treating also participate in satanic rituals. I don't know anyone IRL who does not celebrate Halloween, but then again, I don't really know any conservative Christians except for the new family who moved in around the corner. I dont' really know them, but I'd guess they don't do Halloween.

 

There was nothing to cue me in that you were being sarcastic.

 

astrid

 

She's using those terms as illustrations of what she might recognize as evil and saying that Halloween doesn't fit that definition for her. But because she's running into people who do feel that it is evil, she's feeling conflicted and perhaps a bit insecure in her convictions regarding the holiday.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a Christian and I can't WAIIITT!! I think I'm more excited than the kids this year, because for the first time, we live in a neighborhood that goes ALL OUT. (it's a historic neighborhood, people drive up and down to look at the houses and the homeowners, in turn, make it worth the drive) I'm going to be a witch, the kids are still deciding and I get to be in character all day!! And in the herb garden we're making a cemetery. I made lanterns, and garlands and broom flying signs and everything.

 

AND, this year, I'm swiping Mrs. Mungo's most excellent idea of making the non dresser uppers take a pair of fangs before I give them candy. *joy*

 

Seriously?

Otherwise you will be continually confused and swayed one way or another. Be able to agree or disagree with authority.

 

This.

 

 

This paragraph spoke to me:

I’m not sure that anything is gained by calling pagans, Satanists or demon worshippers.
It’s easy to view yourself as God’s agent and to brand people with strong labels. Then you can justify not relating to them in grace. You can begin to hate and fear them. And eventually you can persuade yourself that as agents of Satan they deserve persecution
(i.e. the inquisition and witch burnings). This goes against everything that Jesus taught about reaching out to pagans (1 Corinthians 5:9-13) and loving our enemies (Matthew 5:43-48), and showing mercy to them (Luke 6:27-36).
The truth is that sometimes Christians end up acting more like Satan, than pagans do.

 

When I was a new Christian, I wore legalism like a badge of spiritual maturity. Now, 20 years later, I view legalism is a crutch for the spiritually weak.

 

Yes, we do Halloween! :) We carve pumpkins, dress in costume, trick-or-treat and BEST OF ALL we get to hand out a bunch of yummy treats to our precious neighbor kids.

 

 

:iagree: wholeheartedly

 

I figure it goes along with the idea of meat sacrificed to idols. Yes, some people may use the holiday in a way that is bad, but you know what you are using it for. If it's ok to eat meat sacrificed to pagan idols I'm pretty sure it's ok to eat candy given out on halloween :)

 

Fwiw, my recollection of that passage says that you're not supposed to eat meat sacrificed to idols if you know that it has been sacrificed, but that it's okay if you're ignorant of it.

 

This is the verse:

 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+8&version=NIV

 

1Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge.a]" class="footnote">[a] Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3But the man who loves God is known by God. 4So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

7But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled.8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

 

 

9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

So, the spirits and idols some believe are attached to Halloween are nothing. BUT, some people are deceived and attach power to those things in weakness and defile their own conscious.

 

We who know better, CAN still party, but here's the crux, if THEY (seeing us) party, AND STILL BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF THE IDOLATRY, then we sin against them. The crux is in their belief still being in the idol. They still give it power, AND eat, and we sin against them in our freedom.

 

But, I don't think they had the internet in mind when they said that-they had some roads, but no idea that one thought, one action could reach thousands in a second and I am not going to twist myself up into a pretzel in fear of what I may be doing to a weaker brother. The more you are out there, the more this matters and you have to draw a line-you either become a shadow of a person because there are weak sisters and brothers everywhere and something offends all of them and you wear a headcovering, no jewelry, don't drink, don't dance, don't swim, don't ....see what I mean?

 

So celebrate if you have the freedom to, and if you don't -don't.

Edited by justamouse
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fwiw, my recollection of that passage says that you're not supposed to eat meat sacrificed to idols if you know that it has been sacrificed, but that it's okay if you're ignorant of it.

 

And, for me, that's what celebrating Halloween comes down to. If you're unaware of a reason you shouldn't, well, you're not violating your conscience, are you? But if your conscience troubles you about it, then you shouldn't.

 

My conscience troubles me about it, so I don't. But I don't assume bad things about the people who do, because I don't know what their intentions or convictions are.

 

 

Costumes and pumpkins and candy don't bother me (well, candy bothers me in that it has a bad effect on my waist!). What does bother me? Mostly that it seems to promote a view of death that I disagree with. I wrote about that once here.

 

Also, the ghosts and witches trouble me. I don't think ghosts generally hang around after death, and if they do, it's not particularly funny (ghosts being the spirit of a person, and why would it be entertaining to think of a human being, without home in place or in body, wandering around lost?), so it bothers me to see them made an object of fun.

 

As for the witches, they are generally cartoonish, so you could say that A) they mean nothing (so why bother?) or B) they are making fun of a genuine religious belief (so . . . in this culture that would be bad, right? I'm not sure) or C) they are making my children think well of a genuine religious belief that I genuinely think is false and harmful (and I'm aware any witches would also genuinely disagree with my religious beliefs, which, fair enough) or D) they are there for some purpose I have yet to fathom (again, in which case, why should I bother if I don't understand it?). I'm not sure any of those options are options I want to get behind, and since I'm not sure, I don't. (I don't think doing things you don't have a reason to do is a good rule of life.) And when they're not cartoonish but rather frightening, well, then my problem with them is simple. I don't like looking at terrifying and ugly things for entertainment.

 

So, that's why I'm one of the "so serious" ones. I think if it was just about candy, you wouldn't need the ghouls and ghosts.

 

 

Again, I don't assume bad things about folks who celebrate Halloween, because I don't know their reasoning for doing it. But since I do feel uneasy about it I don't celebrate it, and I hope no one will think bad things about me (or my kids) because I don't. I know I could well be "the weaker brother" here! But if I am, hey, that's what I am. I can live with that. :)

People are going to do things, or not do them, based on what type of meaning they have or have not attached to it.

If the only meaning you have attached to Halloween is that it's fun than go for it. But obviously you shouldn't be participating in Halloween when you have attached a negative spiritual meaning to it and it bothers your conscience. Of course don't participate. There are ton's of others ways to have fun.

 

I think it's a good thing to not be surprised when we come across others that have a different attitude towards Halloween than our own. If we can stop caring about whether others think the same as us on this issue we won't be bothered by it.

But I do find it annoying and downright weird when someone starts going on and on about the evils of Halloween.......... and then they purchase drug paraphernalia for their teenage son so he'll do those things at home instead of somewhere else. (true story ) Some people are just hard to figure out. :tongue_smilie:I'm just saying that, in my personal experience, for what it's worth, I don't see any real correlation between participating or not participating in Halloween and whether or not a person is what some Christians like to refer to as spiritually mature. These kinds of rules simply do not lead to real spiritual maturity.

Edited by Miss Sherry
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right. When I think about this just from a logical perspective, I ask myself: 1. IS this activity really evil and why or why not? and 2. Do nonbelievers truly see it as evil or hypocritical of Christians in any way that will keep them from seeing Christ in us? Because if they typically do not, then it's a false argument to make. Whether or not other Christians believe it has the appearance of evil is not the deal breaker for me because dressing up in a costume does not cause anyone to stumble AND there are plenty of Christians who look for every opportunity to label something evil or unrighteous simply to elevate themselves and have false pride when they don't participate.

 

Now, I don't allow my kids to dress up as Charles Manson or another real/fictional murderer or something very scary, because THAT is the way in which there is an appearance of evil, literally. But putting on a costume and getting to talk to neighbors who come to our door and kids getting free candy? Nope. Don't see the evil in that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A few years ago when we lived in another neighborhood there were some families from Romania and Russia. None of them participated in Halloween.By the way, none of them were homescooling. When we went around the neighborhood for Halloween they all had their lights off. But I suppose that coming from a country where they did not grow up with that tradition it would be odd to start now.

One of my daughters has a Russian friend, whose family does not participate in Halloween, but we asked if she could dress up in an American Girl outfit -( it was a girls size Kirsten dress and we had another American Girls dress my daughter wore ) for the girls to wear to a church Harvest Party and her Mom was fine with it. That was the first time my daughters friend did anything in connection with Halloween.

 

If you can imagine what it would be like to look at Halloween for the first time, coming from a country where you were not exposed to it as a child so you have no fun memories of dressing up in costumes for it, I can understand why the families from Romania and Russia in our old neighborhood did not participate.

 

But it is coming from a different perspective for people who have been a part of this culture all of their lives.

 

Don't know..my family is Russian and it's always been my mom's (and mine)favorite holiday. But my father was born in NY(to Russian immigrants) and my mom was born in Paris(to Russian parents as well)...

I went to a Catholic school and everyone celebrated it..like I said before we were aloud to dress up in our costumes at school so it seems the church was o.k. with it...

When I was talking about people I knew that didn't do Halloween it was mostly Protestant homeschoolers...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does she believe putting a Christmas tree in her front window is "the appearance of evil"? (another Pagan tradition co-opted by Christianity - although of course Halloween isn't recognized as a Christian holiday of course, but many Christians celebrate it, including myself)

 

IMO, I think the only people who see it as anything evil are the Christians who say that it is. I've never in my life met a non-Christian who was shocked that Christians would celebrate such a "Satanic" holiday as Halloween. It's cute kids in cute costumes collecting candy. I don't exactly see how that brings any glory or joy to Satan.

 

:iagree:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...