Food pickiness - did I do the right thing? (rambling, rant-ish and WWYD?)

[BikeBookBread]

4 1/2 year old LLL woke up very late this morning. She doesn't have a fever, though 2 out of the 4 of us have been sick in the past 4 days (some mild flu-type bug), so I don't know if she's coming down with it or not.

 

Anyway, she asked for yogurt with granola for breakfast (it was 9:00 by this time...very late for breakfast at our home...but that's okay). Per her usual mode, she whined that I hadn't given her enough, and she wanted more. I have learned not to give more as she never even eats half of the original amount that I give her. (This is an every-mealtime and snack-time battle with her.) She pitched an even-bigger fit. I sat down with her and watched her whine, cry and push the food around for 20 minutes asking for "more" all the while. I explained in a calm but firm voice that I would be happy to give her more if she ate what she had in her bowl, first. It was a generous amount. So after the 20 minutes of not eating and her complaining, I quietly took the breakfast away and dumped it down the disposal. Huge blowup at this point.

 

She's still crying, but I gave her a glass of grape juice and she's sitting at the table crying but sipping that now. I told her I wouldn't give her anything more food until snack time, which is in about 10 minutes, given the lateness of the morning. Like I said above, this is an every day battle, though the duration of the fit this morning is unusual, and normally, she sits down and finally eats, but today she didn't. So, am I being too hard-nosed this morning? I'm just so so so so so tired of throwing food away. (I know it's counter-intuitive that I threw it down the disposal, but DH has stated that we take it away if it's not eaten during a set period of time. Looking back, I should have put it in the fridge for her snack. STUPID ME!)

 

ETA: I just saw Jean in Newcastle's wasting food thread...I need to read through that thread!

Edited August 25, 2010 by BikeBookBread

[aggieamy]

I would have done what you did so don't feel bad. I've fixed many fantastic dinners and then had a kid eat only two bites and announce that they are full. Um ... okay. Then 30 minutes before bedtime they tell me they are starving and are crying from hunger. Too bad. You should have eaten more dinner. I feel kind of like a jerk about it but I'm not about to become a short order cook at 8 o'clock at night because they didn't want to eat dinner for whatever reason.

[BikeBookBread]

I would have done what you did so don't feel bad. I've fixed many fantastic dinners and then had a kid eat only two bites and announce that they are full. Um ... okay. Then 30 minutes before bedtime they tell me they are starving and are crying from hunger. Too bad. You should have eaten more dinner. I feel kind of like a jerk about it but I'm not about to become a short order cook at 8 o'clock at night because they didn't want to eat dinner for whatever reason.

 

"This is not a restaurant, girls. I'm not going to spend my day in the kitchen!" - Me.

[FriedClams]

You did great Mom!!! I would have done the same thing, but I would only give her water - milk and juice are too easy for little ones to use as a meal replacement. You did great - hang in there!!!!

[Rebecca VA]

I would probably have been more sympathetic. There's a virus going around here, too -- I just spoke with a friend yesterday who had it, and she was so tired. She (my friend) almost sounded a bit whiny, which is totally out of character for her. So while you were right not to give your daughter more, you could probably have treated her with more pity, since it's quite possible she's coming down sick.

 

(I'm not trying to criticize you, since I know how many mistakes all of us make when we're in the middle of situations.)

Edited August 25, 2010 by Rebecca VA
changed wording

[elfgivas]

my mom used to cover it and put it in the refrigerator, and we could eat it when we were ready. but then, she would serve it to us for the next meal, and the next..... its not a path i'd recommend, but ?

 

hmmmm.... i'm wondering what is going on in her brain.... maybe smaller bowls? then the same amount would look like the bowl was completely full? that would determine if that was the issue.

 

but if its just a battle of wills, food is a bad thing to fight over, particularly with our girl children given the incidence of eating disorders.

 

it might be worth it at a non-meal time to read with her the serving sizes for various things and talk about what that means, and then she can prepare herself a serving size of yoghurt and granola and then evaluate what she thinks when she is finished. i have done this with all four of our girl children, from when they were really small, and it has proven to be invaluable.

 

distraction might be worth it, too. if you pick a good read aloud and read at breakfast, then she may become so engrossed in the story that the food becomes secondary. it would give you something else to focus on too. i started breakfast read alouds when we started Five in a Row, then we moved on to the Prairie Primer and read little house books. now, we're reading through the Anne of Green Gable books, and even the 12 year old will be up and ready for breakfast because she doesn't want to miss it : ).

 

good luck,

ann

[Mom0012]

I think you handled it well. It doesn't seem like she had to suffer too much considering she immediately was given a drink and snack time was only ten minutes away.

 

My son used to do the same thing before we realized he had major food allergies to everything. I would put his breakfast at the table and then run upstairs and close the door to my bedroom and bathroom and blowdry my hair so I wouldn't have to hear his meltdown because it was as regular as clockwork and there was no reasoning with him.

 

I'm not implying that I think your daughter has food allergies, just that I can empathize with the stress of a daily ritual like that.

 

Lisa

[Parrothead]

Every meal time and snack time some degree of what you described happens? There is something else going on here.

 

In general, have you given her very small portions so she can legitimately ask for more? Is she eating a favorite part then asking for more of the favorite? Are you certain that she understands why you won't give her more?

 

Specifically about this morning, IMHO, 20 minutes is too long to sit crying for more food. It doesn't make for a happy home. Both of you are frustrated with each other. There is enough unusual going on with half of you being sick. Could she have been looking for reassurances that every thing is going to be okay?

 

I'm not a short order cook and I don't put up with a lot of pickiness. What you described and the fact that it happens every time you offer food says there is something more going on. It could be possible that the entire process has become habit for both of you. I would suggest looking at the situation differently and finding a solution that works for the both of you. Could there be sensitivities not yet detected? Sensory issues or allergies?

 

Smaller portion sizes comes to mind. Maybe feeding her to show her what you mean by "all gone." Help her understand exactly what it is you are asking for so both of you are no longer frustrated.

[angela in ohio]

You've put up with it longer than I would have. The first time, "I'll give you more when you finish that," was met with a fit, I would have given one chance to apologize and then removed the food.

 

Food alleriges or pickiness are one thing. This wasn't about not wanting to eat the food she had; it was about trying to control you. The lesson you teach her here, one way or another, will carry over into how she treats people when they don't do what she wants them to.

 

Stick to it! A peaceful morning (and relationship) are worth a bit of being tough up front. :001_smile:

[abbeyej]

Did you see the thread about food pickiness the other day? There was some discussion of the fact that this usually *peaks* at age 4. Which means, yes, it's awful now -- but if you keep doing what you're doing, it likely *will* get better.

 

Okay, so maybe it would have been better to put her breakfast into the fridge for snack time. I did find with my own dd (who was very picky and difficult about food for several years and, indeed, it was at its very worst at age 4) that it worked best for me to save one meal to the next meal time. Once the next meal was served, she got to start fresh with whatever everyone else was being served (no serving that same breakfast at every meal until it was eaten), but if she had not eaten a meal and wanted a snack before the next meal, the last meal came out. (And as we don't have a microwave, it was frequently less appetizing the longer she waited. Tough.) Anyway, so yes, saving breakfast for snack time would be my approach. If she never ate it, she'd get a fresh meal at lunch, and no recriminations. But if she didn't eat lunch, that sandwich would come out again when she demanded a snack at 3pm. (If she ate it all at 3 and was still hungry, I'd pull out an additional small snack -- my goal was certainly never to starve a child, just not to allow them to eat snacks instead of meals...)

 

As for throwing a tantrum about the *amount* of food when she knows full well that you will give her as much as she needs, provided she eats what's in front of her? I'd be tempted to punish that with an immediate time-out. The food would still be there after the time-out, but there's no reason to sit and coax a tantrumming child to eat. She can have the tantrum elsewhere (sitting on the steps or on her bed or in a time-out chair -- whatever is used in your home) and then come back to the meal when she is calm. She shouldn't get to hold you hostage like that.

 

And no, you shouldn't give her more than she can eat just because she prefers the way it looks on the plate.

 

But it will get better. ... Um... Eventually. ;)

[Alenee]

My middle dd, now 8yo, was like this and yes, it did peak at age 4 as AbbeyJ mentioned. I did what you did and eventually it stopped. I gave special consideration to certain foods, for instance, three of the five of us like corn. I don't. When she said she didn't like it either, I allowed her to get by w/o it. Most everything else though was "eat it or it goes in the fridge and is given for the next meal".

 

Just recently, that time of our lives came up at the dinner table and I realized just how long it's been since we had to deal with that battle. Hang in there mama! This WILL end eventually. Stick to your guns!

[eternalknot]

Can you serve her the same amount in a smaller setting, so that it LOOKS like more? E.G., putting the yogurt and granola in a "fancy" glass or teacup or something ... might that sufficiently distract her attention elsewhere? Then if she wants more, she may ask for a second glass or teacup.

 

I might myself somehow unavailable during that time. "Here's breakfast. I'm going to take a quick shower and then we'll clean the breakfast dishes and start school. Whatever hasn't been finished we can package up and put into the fridge for a snack later when you get hungry." Then I'd lock the door and take my shower. If food was left, I'd package it up for the inevitable mid-morning snack attack; if it wasn't, I'd clear the dishes and start school. I'd offer the leftovers until our next meal, but I wouldn't serve it for the next meal. I would, however, mention the wastefulness the next time that specific meal was requested. I'd be honest and say, "We'll start with this amount because we wasted x-amount last time. I can always add more when you want it, but based on last time we had extra leftover. I don't have the money/time/energy/inclination/desire to waste perfectly good food." Just matter-of-fact; it's true, right?

 

I have a four year old, too. It's an adventure alright LOL.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I think you did fine. The only thing I would have done differently is what you mentioned - putting it in the fridge for snack. However, if she is pitching a fit every morning, I wonder if something else is going on. Does she suffer from low blood sugar in the mornings which can make people unreasonably cranky? Does she have any processing issues that contribute to her inability to "just deal"? I guess when I see a child with a disagreeable temperament, I usually try to look deeper for a root cause rather than just treat it as a behavior issue.

 

My middle child was the crankiest, most difficult-to-please child. He had daily tantrums about food. It took years for me to figure out he had sensory issues that made life very difficult for him. Once we found the right therapies, he became a different child. At 14, he is just the most pleasant teen - I just love having him around. I can honestly say that I didn't feel that way about him from ages 4 - 8.

[fairfarmhand]

Did you see the thread about food pickiness the other day? There was some discussion of the fact that this usually *peaks* at age 4. Which means, yes, it's awful now -- but if you keep doing what you're doing, it likely *will* get better.

 

Okay, so maybe it would have been better to put her breakfast into the fridge for snack time. I did find with my own dd (who was very picky and difficult about food for several years and, indeed, it was at its very worst at age 4) that it worked best for me to save one meal to the next meal time. Once the next meal was served, she got to start fresh with whatever everyone else was being served (no serving that same breakfast at every meal until it was eaten), but if she had not eaten a meal and wanted a snack before the next meal, the last meal came out. (And as we don't have a microwave, it was frequently less appetizing the longer she waited. Tough.) Anyway, so yes, saving breakfast for snack time would be my approach. If she never ate it, she'd get a fresh meal at lunch, and no recriminations. But if she didn't eat lunch, that sandwich would come out again when she demanded a snack at 3pm. (If she ate it all at 3 and was still hungry, I'd pull out an additional small snack -- my goal was certainly never to starve a child, just not to allow them to eat snacks instead of meals...)

 

As for throwing a tantrum about the *amount* of food when she knows full well that you will give her as much as she needs, provided she eats what's in front of her? I'd be tempted to punish that with an immediate time-out. The food would still be there after the time-out, but there's no reason to sit and coax a tantrumming child to eat. She can have the tantrum elsewhere (sitting on the steps or on her bed or in a time-out chair -- whatever is used in your home) and then come back to the meal when she is calm. She shouldn't get to hold you hostage like that.

 

And no, you shouldn't give her more than she can eat just because she prefers the way it looks on the plate.

 

But it will get better. ... Um... Eventually. ;)

 

:iagree:Great ideas!

[Ellie]

Right on!!:thumbup:

 

I'm especially glad that you tossed her food instead of hanging on to it for her to eat later. If you'd done that, then I'd have had to flick your ear. :lol:

 

But you bet--you did exactly the right thing. Keep it up.

[ConnieB]

I agree with the others...you did the right thing.

 

Now...had this not been her normal behavior I might have been a little more lenient with the "she may be coming down with something" notion....but that "normal" behavior would have made me nuts, lol.

 

Is there a reason she's like this all the time? Do her sibilings get larger portions and so she's seeing it as a "I'm not the baby" issue? Or maybe they get larger portions of treats and she doesn't like that either?

 

One diet trick that is popular is to fool your mind into thinking that you are eating more than you really are.....by using smaller bowls/plates. The theory goes that if you have to cram your meal onto a dessert plate instead of a dinner plate that is appears you have an overly full plate and your mind will be satisified thinking it ate more. A little weird, but oddly it works so long as you don't keep reminding yourself, lol.

 

Perhaps you could buy her her own set of dishes (various stores sell them with characters etc) that are smaller than the bowl you used for yogurt this morning. When it's filled with the same amount you normally use it will appear to be "more" full to her. You could even fill that smaller bowl with less, and when she demands "more" you go ahead and give it to her, making her think she's won the battle. Sometimes the little ones just need to "win" once in a while.

 

Good luck!

[ktgrok]

My first thought is low blood sugar. It can make me totally unreasonable and I will have hissy fits over food. Can she have a sip of juice or two before you serve her the meal? Just as an experiment?

[stripe]

If this is her normal behavior, and this is your normal reaction, then I have to suggest that something be done to move this in a more positive direction.

[MeaganS]

Man, it peaks at 4? My daughter just turned 2 and we recently had a battle of wills over something similar. She won't ever eat dinner. I don't know why, but no matter what, she just won't. So one night I decided I'd had enough and told her she didn't have to eat it now, but that was all she was getting next meal (it was mac and cheese, which I know for a fact she likes). So for the next meal, snack, meal, snack, and meal, I offered her the mac and cheese, and she wouldn't even touch it. Finally, I decided after 24 hours to give in and figure something else out. If this peaks at 4, we've got a long road ahead.

 

When I told my mom that story, she told me what happened to a cousin of mine. When he was 3 or so, my aunt had a similar battle of wills over a bowl of oatmeal. Except she held on for 48 hours. Sometime during the second day, he walked up to her and asked, completely seriously, "how long can you not eat before you die?" Like he was preparing for it and had accepted the inevitable. That's when she gave in.

 

People have always told me that babies/children will eat eventually if they get hungry enough. My experience hasn't shown that, even when dd was an infant.

 

so, sorry, no advice here, but I am listening because I can sense I'm going to need all the help I can get later down the road.

[Barb_]

I sat down with her and watched her whine, cry and push the food around for 20 minutes

 

A-ha. This is a large part of the problem right here. You watched her whine. She had your undivided attention while she whined. From now on, try saying your piece and then turning away. Head to the other room and busy yourself doing something else. If she follows you whining, that's when you head back and say, "Oh, finished already?" and then stick her food in the fridge. This will send her over the edge again, but she'll eventually realize she's lost her audience. Obviously this is only one part of the picture, but it'll help to take the focus from her dramatics and pop her bubble a little ;)

 

Barb

[EKS]

I would have done what you did and I would take it one step farther and eliminate snacks. They just encourage that sort of behavior at meals.

[Aggie]

Man, it peaks at 4? My daughter just turned 2 and we recently had a battle of wills over something similar. She won't ever eat dinner. I don't know why, but no matter what, she just won't. So one night I decided I'd had enough and told her she didn't have to eat it now, but that was all she was getting next meal (it was mac and cheese, which I know for a fact she likes). So for the next meal, snack, meal, snack, and meal, I offered her the mac and cheese, and she wouldn't even touch it. Finally, I decided after 24 hours to give in and figure something else out. If this peaks at 4, we've got a long road ahead.

 

When I told my mom that story, she told me what happened to a cousin of mine. When he was 3 or so, my aunt had a similar battle of wills over a bowl of oatmeal. Except she held on for 48 hours. Sometime during the second day, he walked up to her and asked, completely seriously, "how long can you not eat before you die?" Like he was preparing for it and had accepted the inevitable. That's when she gave in.

 

People have always told me that babies/children will eat eventually if they get hungry enough. My experience hasn't shown that, even when dd was an infant.

 

so, sorry, no advice here, but I am listening because I can sense I'm going to need all the help I can get later down the road.

 

IME, she may be developing an intolerance or allergy to either dairy or wheat. You might want to check with your physician about it.

[abbeyej]

...She won't ever eat dinner. I don't know why, but no matter what, she just won't. ...

 

Is she eating well the rest of the time? If so, I probably wouldn't push it. Just only *plan* to serve her a couple of bites of food at dinner, and front-load her days with healthy food. It's actually *very* common for toddlers to eat most of their calories early in the day and simply not to need much food at dinner time. They don't all do that, certainly, but as long as she's eating a balanced, whole-food diet over the rest of the day, I'd leave it alone. I wouldn't make special stuff to try to get her to eat, I wouldn't fight over trying to make her eat "our" food. I'd just plan on giving her fruits and veggies and protein at breakfast and lunch.

 

Now, if she's not eating dinner 'cause she knows she can eat nothing but bread and butter for breakfast and lunch, well, that's a different problem. ;) But if she's eating strawberries and yogurt for breakfast and black beans and rice and steamed broccoli for lunch, etc, I'd leave it alone and just give her a single piece of pasta at dinner to push around her plate. Eventually she'll be hungry for dinner. Just maybe not this year. ;)

[Teachin'Mine]

At that age, meals took f.o.r.e.v.e.r. 45 minutes to an hour wasn't at all unusual. It drove us nuts sometimes, but she ate well. I think it's just typical at that age. :)

 

Maybe you can just serve her her portion, and then let her finish on her own. It would eliminate the battle. I think you did the right thing deciding the amount and offering her more if she finished what you gave her.

[kmacnchs]

Any whine is met with a gentle reminder "thank you for the food, mama" at our house. If the child does not become thankful for what they have been given, they can have nothing. I will also send them up to their bed until they are ready to have a happy heart. A lot of times w/dd2, she just hasn't fully woken up and she just needs more time in her bed to do so b4 she is ready to face the world. There is no need for her to bring everyone else down in the house with the whining & crying...

[stripe]

People have always told me that babies/children will eat eventually if they get hungry enough. My experience hasn't shown that, even when dd was an infant.

I don't think it's healthy to do this to children, for many reasons. I have a kid who would starve to death before eating something he considered nasty; I probably would too. So I don't really understand the idea of serving something for days on end, but saving it until the next meal sounds reasonable. I think there is just so much anger here. I remember my parents flipping out about food, and it never made much sense to me then. Things really can make you sick if you don't like to eat them, and to force someone to put something into their body is .... sort of creepy to me.

[s.shaffer]

I agree with some of the previous posts that due to the fact that her complaining about the amount of food she gets is a daily occurrence, it sounds like there is a bigger issue of her wanting control of you or the situation. I like the idea of removing the food the first time she complains about the amount, or remove her for a time-out. I also agree with saving what she didn't eat for the next time she eats.

 

I wonder if there is another area in her life where she could be given more control like choosing what to wear each day, being a part of planning each dinner's menu (she gets to pick one of three choices you present her) etc. Maybe having more control somewhere else will appease that need in her.

[angela in ohio]

She won't ever eat dinner. I don't know why, but no matter what, she just won't.

 

My dc are good eaters, and we never let them have a power struggle over meals, BUT my youngest hated to eat much past about 2 p.m. when he was little. It seemed unhealthy to me, but it was what his body was telling him for some reason. When he was about 2-4 yo, he ate several meals (breakfast, snack, lunch, snack) in the morning and early afternoon and then ate a few bites for dinner. I would only serve him a tiny bit of dinner, so that he was eating with the family, but not getting used to leaving a lot of food. He eats dinner like a champ now, so it turned out fine. :001_smile:

[Pamela H in Texas]

I haven't read any other responses yet, but....

 

Here are the things I'm more inclined to do.

 

1) depending on the kid, but for most, I would have just walked away. Go to the restroom, start cleaning the livingroom, whatever; but I wouldn't give her ANY attention for acting up. That will, for most kids, get them to finish up their fit and get to eating.

 

2) If she was just being disruptive, I would have escorted her away and let her know she could come back when she's ready to eat without the fit.

 

3) I wouldn't have dumped food no matter what. Generally, for most kids 20 minutes is as much as they're gonna eat. So just pick it up, put it away, and she can have it when she wants more.

 

I also would never give her more than you think she'll eat.

 

Also, with a four year old, you can discuss these things pretty well. I would sit down outside of the situation (or do it while doing something else which is better) and let her know that from now on, the discussion about more food is no longer to be had. WHEN and ONLY when she finishes the food she has may she ask for more food. She does not have the right to make you miserable about this a few times every day! This is a perfectly FINE boundary to set. Ask her to come up with a code word (something silly like rainbow people) so that you can say the code word if she forgets and she'll remember not to whine for more food.

 

You might ask HER what you should do if she throws a fit about it. She might have a great idea! Otherwise, just tell her that you'll put the food in the fridge until she's done or whatever you want to do.

 

One more thing. I always found it easier to give kids the appropriate response. In this case, you may require her to say "thank you mommy" when you hand her food.

 

But whatever you do, don't give attention to the behavior.

 

Hope that helps.

[Laurie4b]

As for throwing a tantrum about the *amount* of food when she knows full well that you will give her as much as she needs, provided she eats what's in front of her? I'd be tempted to punish that with an immediate time-out. The food would still be there after the time-out, but there's no reason to sit and coax a tantrumming child to eat. She can have the tantrum elsewhere (sitting on the steps or on her bed or in a time-out chair -- whatever is used in your home) and then come back to the meal when she is calm. She shouldn't get to hold you hostage like that.

 

. ;)

 

I agree with this. It wasn't about food pickiness. It was about "I want my way and you will give it to me or else I will throw a fit." Dealing with the "I will get my way or you will pay" issue is the key thing here. Separate that from the food. Use time out or whatever other method you use in your household, but don't make it food-centered.

 

 

To prevent the issue, you might, as a pp suggested, consider using smaller plates. It works with dieters, people in restaurants, etc. We gauge the amount of our serving & bodily satisfaction with our serving proportionate to the plate.