Statement of faith??

[AngieW in Texas]

I live in an area where lots of groups have statements of faith. Up in Dallas, many of the groups worded their statements of faith specifically to exclude Catholics and Mormons. They weren't considered "real" Christians. There were a lot of Christians in the inclusive groups who joined because they disagreed with the whole idea behind the statements of faith that the Christian groups had.

 

I remember one group that required you to list your preacher's name and phone number so they could check out the doctrine of your church to be sure you were acceptable to them.

 

I'm not Christian and have always been in inclusive groups.

[JennyD]

Jennifer, thanks for your very clear explanation upthread about why that 'statement of faith' wouldn't work for a Catholic. I'm Jewish so all of this is a bit alien to me, but very interesting.

 

I wouldn't join a homeschool group with a heavily Christian bent in the first place, so the statement of faith business seems rather beside the point for me personally, but I can see why it might be controversial among Christians.

[KnitWit]

(((soul sister)))):D

 

 

 

 

I don't think a support group should have anything to do with academics at all. That's what the parents are doing. :D

 

 

True...I think I was blending support group and co-op functions. Some support groups here DO blend the two.

 

I think we'd get along fine. :)

[Parrothead]

 

Do such groups that do exclude others not exactly like them assume everyone is out to drag the kids from their family's beliefs? I don't know if I have ever met anyone so rude as to try that among my less conservative Christian friends. Now on the other side-some of the we don't want you because you are not like me people have been rude to me and even felt the need to send me tracts and websites so I could "see the light". Do they also think that at 40 years of age I am too much of an idiot to make up my own mind on belifs or that some arguments from their church would sway me on the spot?

 

 

You may be on to something there. I think a great many Christians have in their belief system that to convert someone to their denomination is a good thing, and think all other denominations believe the same.

 

That wasn't the case with us though. We were part of a 4 family group. The original leader family accepted us okay even though we believe differently. Then they moved. This left 3 families. Then like I said earlier I tried making contact. Phones were not answered, emails not replied to, the shutting down of the other ministry. So the group was down to two families and I was gobsmacked at the behavior.

 

I found out later from the other family that finally left that because the leader family believed we were going straight to Hell for our beliefs they did not want us to taint them. By associating with us they would go straight to hell. I'd never heard such. I had by then gotten over the slight and could do nothing but :lol::lol::lol:.

 

Oh, we are Catholic.

[Guest rubilynne4]

Or the ones that say if you are single and "co-habitating" with the parent of your child you can't be raising you child in a loving home.

 

"we reject transitory co-habitational relationships as being equally in violation of God's laws and incapable of providing long-term nurture and instruction needed by children as commanded by God"

 

Yup...I didn't join. I couldn't. My sister is a single mom living with her boyfriend and his son. They are happy, she loves her kids, she nurtures them. It goes against me to believe something like this.

 

*shrug* What can ya do?

 

just a thought, i know that many christians do not believe in living together without being married, and as a christian i do believe this is wrong. if you are not a christian, or believe differently i can understand why this would bother you. however, the word that i key in on in the above statement is the word "transitory". i think that transitory relationships do make it difficult (although not impossible) to provide long-term nurture and instruction. even when one parent is consistently present it does make it hard when other persons come in and out. a child forms attachments, and then experiences loss again and again. i am speaking from experience as i grew up in a home where my mother had many relationships, and it did affect nurture, instruction, and most of all consistency. i am not saying this is the case with your sister, it seems she is in a committed relationship. just a thought.

Edited July 1, 2010 by rubilynne4

[TravelingChris]

I have been in many support groups and co-ops. The one in California may have been worded in a way that Catholics wouldn't like, I don't remember since we moved from there in 1999. I do know that we had SDA in it and that it did not include creation in the SOF. THe one in NM was one that Orthodox Christian could abide with. I think it was mostly an Apostle's Creed type document. In Belgium, we just stated we were Christians and we had Catholics in our group. We decided we didn't want a SOF at this time but our document did say something about the Trinity. In Florida, I was a member of a co-op that had a SOF that was acceptable to Catholics since we had a number of them, including on leadership positions. Again, no creation mention. Here in Northern VA, we are in a co-op that hands out the church's statement of faith but it doesn't require you to hold with it exactly. For example, it is a Baptist church and they believe in believer's baptism. But there are plenty Anglicans, Catholics, Presbyterians, and others who practice infant baptism attending, We all teach classes but I wouldn't be teaching a theology class. Our speech and debate club has a SOF of the Apostles' Creed and nothing else. There are Catholics in the group who have no problems signing that.

[cani e porci]

I found out later from the other family that finally left that because the leader family believed we were going straight to Hell for our beliefs they did not want us to taint them. By associating with us they would go straight to hell. I'd never heard such. I had by then gotten over the slight and could do nothing but :lol::lol::lol:.

 

Oh, we are Catholic.

I always wonder if the folks where I live think Catholicism is contagious.

 

"Oh, no! Little Tyler sat next to that papist girl at the art museum and now I think he's coming down with teh catholics! You haven't seen him doing any works, have you?"

Edited July 1, 2010 by cani e porci
location clarification!

[Ellie]

You may be on to something there. I think a great many Christians have in their belief system that to convert someone to their denomination is a good thing, and think all other denominations believe the same.

 

That wasn't the case with us though. We were part of a 4 family group. The original leader family accepted us okay even though we believe differently. Then they moved. This left 3 families. Then like I said earlier I tried making contact. Phones were not answered, emails not replied to, the shutting down of the other ministry. So the group was down to two families and I was gobsmacked at the behavior.

 

I found out later from the other family that finally left that because the leader family believed we were going straight to Hell for our beliefs they did not want us to taint them. By associating with us they would go straight to hell. I'd never heard such. I had by then gotten over the slight and could do nothing but :lol::lol::lol:.

 

Oh, we are Catholic.

((((Parrothead)))) Your story makes me crazy.:mad: And sad.

[Guest rubilynne4]

another thought. i really find it strange that a christian group would exclude someone from being in a coop because they believe differently. the nature of christianity is (or, in my opinion should be) to reach out to those outside the faith, not alienate them. even though i, as a christian believe certain things, i don't expect nonchristians to believe them, that's why they're nonchristians. however, as a nonchristian would you all feel comfortable in a coop group that is teaching their curriculum from a christian standpoint? morals might come up as part of the lesson (my beliefs are part of everything i do, i don't compartmentalize them in other words). although i wouldn't exclude someone, i also wouldn't try to not live and teach as a christian. it's a sticky subject. i don't intend to offend anyone, but my faith is so pervasive that even my speech sometimes betrays me (i talk like a christian). for example, if i'm extremely happy about something i just say, "Praise the Lord," or "thank God" without even thinking. It's just natural to me, it's who i am, and i don't separate it out.

[Guest rubilynne4]

the nature of christianity is to share our faith. this can not be separated out. if you read the gospels you can see this. Part of our belief is to preach the gospel. that said, it does also say that if someone doesn't want to hear or receive we should not continue to share. we should move on and share with someone else.

[Sweetest]

Jennifer, thanks for your very clear explanation upthread about why that 'statement of faith' wouldn't work for a Catholic. I'm Jewish so all of this is a bit alien to me, but very interesting.

 

I wouldn't join a homeschool group with a heavily Christian bent in the first place, so the statement of faith business seems rather beside the point for me personally, but I can see why it might be controversial among Christians.

 

Honestly, I think the subtle exclusionary statements of many SOF are alien to many people. Like I said, I don't think most members of my local group even realize that the SOF is Anti-Catholic. I think that many people consider Anti-Catholic to be so much more in your face, like bashing our Pope or mocking our reverence of Mary and the Saints. I don't think most people would consider that a simple word like "only" could exclude us, but unfortunately it does!

 

It would be nice if Protestant only groups would identify themselves as such, then I would know upfront that they are exclusive and that I don't belong. If a Catholic group called themselves "Christian Home Educators" and then expected Protestant and Orthodox Christians to sign a Catholic statement of faith, I would find that ridiculous. I just think if you are going to call your group "Christian", then you should include all Christians. Otherwise, as a PP stated, be specific and upfront about what kind of Christians you want to include!

 

My ideal: a group of Christian Home Educators who come together under the belief that "Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again!" And who accept (and even encourage) those who don't believe to join as long as they are respectful of that basic tenant!

[Rosy]

that someone that doesn't hold the exact same beliefs would be so rude as to indoctrinate the kids of others? I would find it incredibly rude for others to tell me or my kids how to believe and would not push my beliefs on anyone else.

 

I heard of a group starting to form and volunteered to teach science. I am a major science nerd and worked in a laboratory for 11 years. They would not let me teach chemistry experiments to elementary kids because I did not hold the same exact beliefs as the person setting it up. What did they think I was going to teach when I was dumping chemicals? There would have been no reason for any subject causing trouble to come up. If It did, I would have told the kid to ask his/her parents and said so to the leader. Did she assume I was lying?

 

Do such groups that do exclude others not exactly like them assume everyone is out to drag the kids from their family's beliefs? I don't know if I have ever met anyone so rude as to try that among my less conservative Christian friends. Now on the other side-some of the we don't want you because you are not like me people have been rude to me and even felt the need to send me tracts and websites so I could "see the light". Do they also think that at 40 years of age I am too much of an idiot to make up my own mind on belifs or that some arguments from their church would sway me on the spot?

 

BTW a bunch of us rejects from the conservative groups have started our own group and are having a blast. There are a wide variety of faiths or lack of and we get along very well. Nobody has pushed their faith or lack of on anyone else and we focus on homechooling the kids-not what church we go to. I have never fit into a homeschool group as well as this one and am thankful it is here. I have belonged to some Christian groups and never seemed to fit well-even though I am a Christian. They seemed a bit too clicky to me.

 

Obviously as to the OP-I'm not a big statement of faith person. I find it is just an exclusionary tactic. Why say you are a Christian group instead of what you really mean is we are group of people that go to XYZ church and/or adhere to their standards? That would save poor scleps like me from even going farther than looking at your website or application.

 

DISCLAIMER

You is a generic you-not a specific person.

 

Really I am not trying to be snarky, but I am trying to understand why I would be excluded from such groups (not that I would want to be included in one at this point-but there was a time when that was the only option in my area when I was beginning to homeschool). I do wonder if/why such groups seem to assume the worst in others as far at the penchant for rude behavior.

 

I don't know how to answer your question, except that I homeschool my kids because I'm concerned about what they're learning. I have no reason to assume that someone I don't know would or would not have an interest in persuading my kids to believe what they believe. For all the rational, reasonable people like you out there, I am sure there are some that aren't. And since my kids are young and I'm not in their classes with them, it's important to me to know broadly what they will/won't be taught. FTR, our co-op has Catholics and Protestants of all flavors. I'm sure we have at least 15 churches represented among us. Old-earth, young-earth, liberals, conservatives, different ethnic backgrounds etc. etc.

 

Chucki--I don't know how to multiquote but you asked "At what point do you allow your children to learn about the differences that are out in the world?" I have been teaching them and exposing them to these differences since birth. But because I homeschool, I can do this when and how I feel my kids are ready for them. Feel free to judge me all you want, but I'm sure if you lived in my community, my family would welcome a relationship with your family (and others who don't fit the SOF mold), whether you were willing/able to join my co-op or not.

[Joanne]

Chucki--I don't know how to multiquote but you asked "At what point do you allow your children to learn about the differences that are out in the world?" I have been teaching them and exposing them to these differences since birth. But because I homeschool, I can do this when and how I feel my kids are ready for them. Feel free to judge me all you want, but I'm sure if you lived in my community, my family would welcome a relationship with your family (and others who don't fit the SOF mold), whether you were willing/able to join my co-op or not.

 

The problem *I*, as a non literal, non conservative Christian would have is the cumulative dynamic, tone and behavior that is almost always found in homeschool settings with a SOF. It's not the SOF, it's what is found within a group that feels the need for one.

[elegantlion]

another thought. i really find it strange that a christian group would exclude someone from being in a coop because they believe differently. the nature of christianity is (or, in my opinion should be) to reach out to those outside the faith, not alienate them. even though i, as a christian believe certain things, i don't expect nonchristians to believe them, that's why they're nonchristians. however, as a nonchristian would you all feel comfortable in a coop group that is teaching their curriculum from a christian standpoint? morals might come up as part of the lesson (my beliefs are part of everything i do, i don't compartmentalize them in other words). although i wouldn't exclude someone, i also wouldn't try to not live and teach as a christian. it's a sticky subject. i don't intend to offend anyone, but my faith is so pervasive that even my speech sometimes betrays me (i talk like a christian). for example, if i'm extremely happy about something i just say, "Praise the Lord," or "thank God" without even thinking. It's just natural to me, it's who i am, and i don't separate it out.

 

Not all subject necessitates being taught from a christian viewpoint, even those who are not Christian can maintain a strong moral center, ya know. :D

 

What I see is that some groups are attempting to further define what it means to be a christian, beyond the "I believe in God the father..." statement. They become points to nitpick and exclude and point fingers. It can turn totally nasty.

 

I could not, in good faith :tongue_smilie:, join a group where the prevailing attitude was one that we'll allow those who are different because "we're going to convert those non-believers". I believe in this day and age most of us have arrived at our positions of faith through thought, experience, and seeking. I am a christian, but I prefer to let my faith show through my actions, not words, or acts of exclusion.

[NanceXToo]

however, as a nonchristian would you all feel comfortable in a coop group that is teaching their curriculum from a christian standpoint?

 

Well, like someone else just said, not every subject is necessarily going to have to be taught from a religious viewpoint at all.

 

If I had the choice, I'd join a group that was definitely secular or at least inclusive. But if I were in an area where my only choice was a Christian group, assuming I didn't find them exclusionary to begin with, I would join for reasons other than religious ones. Activities, socialization, and so on.

 

I would then pick and choose which classes or activities I wanted to participate in. I would pick the ones that seemed like religion was going to play either no part, or at least a minimal part. So like I wouldn't sign up for the bible class. But I'm there for the museum trip and the science experiments and the arts and crafts. You know what I mean? If I wasn't sure about how a subject was going to be taught, I'd politely contact the person teaching it and ask them about it.

[kiana]

I don't know how to answer your question, except that I homeschool my kids because I'm concerned about what they're learning. I have no reason to assume that someone I don't know would or would not have an interest in persuading my kids to believe what they believe. For all the rational, reasonable people like you out there, I am sure there are some that aren't. And since my kids are young and I'm not in their classes with them, it's important to me to know broadly what they will/won't be taught. FTR, our co-op has Catholics and Protestants of all flavors. I'm sure we have at least 15 churches represented among us. Old-earth, young-earth, liberals, conservatives, different ethnic backgrounds etc. etc.

 

Chucki--I don't know how to multiquote but you asked "At what point do you allow your children to learn about the differences that are out in the world?" I have been teaching them and exposing them to these differences since birth. But because I homeschool, I can do this when and how I feel my kids are ready for them. Feel free to judge me all you want, but I'm sure if you lived in my community, my family would welcome a relationship with your family (and others who don't fit the SOF mold), whether you were willing/able to join my co-op or not.

 

Serious question, not intended to be snarky:

 

If someone were dishonest and untrustworthy enough to attempt to teach your children against your religion behind your back, would a statement of faith stop them?

[NanceXToo]

Serious question, not intended to be snarky:

 

If someone were dishonest and untrustworthy enough to attempt to teach your children against your religion behind your back, would a statement of faith stop them?

 

And that's a good point, too!

[Parrothead]

I always wonder if the folks where I live think Catholicism is contagious.

 

"Oh, no! Little Tyler sat next to that papist girl at the art museum and now I think he's coming down with teh catholics! You haven't seen him doing any works, have you?"

I laughed so hard I almost peed!:smilielol5:

[MeaganS]

We believe:

 

The Bible is the only inspired and infallible written Word of God. (2 Timothy 3:16)

 

There is one living and true God who exists in three persons; Father, Son and Holy Spirit (the Trinity). (Matthew 28:19)

 

All men are sinners and in need of salvation. (Romans 3:23)

 

The Lord Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, died on the cross, rose bodily from the dead and ascended into heaven.

 

We are saved by grace through faith, which is a gift of God, not of our own works. Those who confess that Jesus is Lord, and believe in their hearts that He rose from the dead, will be saved. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9)

 

That our hope is not in the things of this world, but on our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have received eternal life. (2 Corinthians 4:16-18)

 

These are the parts that would keep me, as a Mormon out of that group. We believe in faith and works, that there is more scripture than just the bible, and that God and Christ and the Holy Ghost are three separate people, not just one person. I fully consider myself Christian, but I couldn't, in good conscience, sign that. I don't have a problem associating with those who believe those things, though.

 

My daughter is only 2, so I haven't had to face SOFs yet, but I have a decision to make about whether or not I should worry about them. Is it wrong to sign a statement of faith if you are doing it with the intent to say "I understand and won't fight you on these things," even if you don't believe it yourself? That's the moral dilemma I'm faced with. Anyone have an opinion on that?

[Parrothead]

((((Parrothead)))) Your story makes me crazy.:mad: And sad.

Thanks, but don't be sad.

 

I typed it out because not everyone is aware of things like that happening. There are people who perpetuate things like this by just going along with the crowd. Then there are the people who perpetuate things like this on purpose.

 

I try to keep in mind that the second set of people are really going to have to come up with some quick answers on Judgement Day.

[Parrothead]

My ideal: a group of Christian Home Educators who come together under the belief that "Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again!" And who accept (and even encourage) those who don't believe to join as long as they are respectful of that basic tenant!

Amen!

[Guest rubilynne4]

Not all subject necessitates being taught from a christian viewpoint, even those who are not Christian can maintain a strong moral center, ya know. :D

 

What I see is that some groups are attempting to further define what it means to be a christian, beyond the "I believe in God the father..." statement. They become points to nitpick and exclude and point fingers. It can turn totally nasty.

 

I could not, in good faith :tongue_smilie:, join a group where the prevailing attitude was one that we'll allow those who are different because "we're going to convert those non-believers". I believe in this day and age most of us have arrived at our positions of faith through thought, experience, and seeking. I am a christian, but I prefer to let my faith show through my actions, not words, or acts of exclusion.

i do know that christians and non christians alike can have strong morals. i am in no way saying that if you are a non christian you are in any way amoral (i also know, that you can be a christian, and be amoral as well :D), just that morals may be different (i.e. some believe in same sex marriage, some don't).

also, i didn't mean that the attitude of such a group would be to proselytize/convert others, although it might be (some christians do have outreach ministries). i was coming from the standpoint that some ppl don't like that some christians in general share their faith (group setting or not). my point about this is that some christians believe that part of their living out their faith is to share it, as well as live it (not meaning we should shove it down someone's throat; i already conceded, and my reading of scripture confirms for me, that if you share, and a person doesn't want to hear it, then you don't continue sharing with them).

and i do think you can have a coop and include other beliefs, but if the coop is christian (whatever that may mean, i guess that's where SOF would clarify) then they obviously want to incorporate that into their coop, that's why it's "christian." i can understand why some would not want to be a part of a christian coop, but i don't think as christians we should exclude anyone, but we should make others aware of what we may teach. no hidden agendas. i would hope that those who don't agree with the beliefs could at least respect the right of such a coop to exist. people of all faiths have coops, groups for the express purpose also of teaching from their viewpoint.

i apologize if i'm rambling. just trying to make sense of all this.

[Parrothead]

 

Chucki--I don't know how to multiquote but you asked "At what point do you allow your children to learn about the differences that are out in the world?" I have been teaching them and exposing them to these differences since birth. But because I homeschool, I can do this when and how I feel my kids are ready for them. Feel free to judge me all you want, but I'm sure if you lived in my community, my family would welcome a relationship with your family (and others who don't fit the SOF mold), whether you were willing/able to join my co-op or not.

The little box with the "+ at the bottom right is the multiquote button. Click it for each post you want to quote. I can't do it with too many quotes or I confuse myself. ;)

 

I'm not judging you, just asking. And if you read my post that has the story of our experience you should understand where I'm coming from. I can't call that family closed-minded. I suppose it is more of a fearful thing. And I suppose if one isn't teaching one's children to fear other religions, races or cultures then I'm okay with it. Not that me being okay with anything amounts to a hill of beans to anyone but me.

 

Because I've come up against religious discrimination personally I'm a bit vocal when it comes to these type things.

 

Thank you for the hypothetical welcome. :grouphug:

[Guest rubilynne4]

Originally Posted by Sweetest

My ideal: a group of Christian Home Educators who come together under the belief that "Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again!" And who accept (and even encourage) those who don't believe to join as long as they are respectful of that basic tenant!

 

:iagree:

Edited July 1, 2010 by rubilynne4

[Mrs Mungo]

The problem *I*, as a non literal, non conservative Christian would have is the cumulative dynamic, tone and behavior that is almost always found in homeschool settings with a SOF. It's not the SOF, it's what is found within a group that feels the need for one.

 

:iagree:

[Guest rubilynne4]

to me a SOF is supposed to clarify the beliefs of the said organization (be it a coop, church, support group, etc.). this might make some feel (and i'm sure in some instances it may be true, but not always) that those who don't believe the same are excluded, but i don't think that is (or should i say, should be) the intent of a SOF. it's just saying, "this (whatever "this" is) is what we believe." ideally, anyone would be welcome, but these are the beliefs we hold, and this is the standpoint we base our curriculum, or whatever, on. i personally would want to know what an organization's SOF is. if i knew they believed that, let's say, for example, that racism was okay (this would be an example of exclusive to me), then i wouldn't want to be a part. if they believed that Jesus is the Christ (this is not exclusive to me, it's not saying that anyone one group, person is bad/wrong), then hey i believe that too, i can go along with that. :D i like to know where people stand, and i like others to know where i stand as well. sometimes i think it's good to take a stand. all too often nowadays, it seems to be politically correct, you have to be of the belief that everything is okay, but it's not. for example, racism is wrong, and it's wrong whether someone believes it's wrong or not. i guess i mean that i am defintiely not a moral relativist. some things are wrong and some things are right, now what those things are is another story. i'm still learning on that one. :D

Edited July 1, 2010 by rubilynne4

[Dayle in Guatemala]

There is a coop in the area. I am curious about it, but I haven't contacted them yet. I have heard you have to sign a statement of faith. Can anyone tell me just what this means?

 

TIA.

 

I haven't taken the time to read through all the responses, but, here's been my experience with this.

 

I understand why people might feel the need for one of these because they want people to understand what they are about so if they want to teach or if their kids are participating in classes, you know that there will be if not a out and out discussion about faith, at the very least an underlying current of their beliefs brought into the classes and atmosphere of the co-op.

 

This, I don't necessarily have a problem with because I think it's good for all parties to see what to expect.

 

At times, it is used as a means to keep people who don't necessarily see eye-to-eye with the other members of the co-op from really participating in teaching or other things. It's also at times used to keep people with varying view points out of the co-op.

 

This I do have some issues with. But, I guess my thoughts are, if you can't submit to that statement of faith, it's better to not be a part of the co-op for you and most especially for your kids. It can get awfully confusing to them and it makes you always feel a little on the outside looking in.

 

I'm in favor of the "This is what we believe so you know up front what we're about here, but, it won't hinder you from participating in the co-op" type of SOF. But, that's just me.:D

[Guest rubilynne4]

I haven't taken the time to read through all the responses, but, here's been my experience with this.

 

I understand why people might feel the need for one of these because they want people to understand what they are about so if they want to teach or if their kids are participating in classes, you know that there will be if not a out and out discussion about faith, at the very least an underlying current of their beliefs brought into the classes and atmosphere of the co-op.

 

This, I don't necessarily have a problem with because I think it's good for all parties to see what to expect.

 

At times, it is used as a means to keep people who don't necessarily see eye-to-eye with the other members of the co-op from really participating in teaching or other things. It's also at times used to keep people with varying view points out of the co-op.

 

This I do have some issues with. But, I guess my thoughts are, if you can't submit to that statement of faith, it's better to not be a part of the co-op for you and most especially for your kids. It can get awfully confusing to them and it makes you always feel a little on the outside looking in.

 

I'm in favor of the "This is what we believe so you know up front what we're about here, but, it won't hinder you from participating in the co-op" type of SOF. But, that's just me.:D

:iagree:

[Mrs Mungo]

to me a SOF is supposed to clarify the beliefs of the said organization (be it a coop, church, support group, etc.). this might make some feel (and i'm sure in some instances it may be true, but not always) that those who don't believe the same are excluded, but i don't think that is (or should i say, should be) the intent of a SOF.

 

That has not been my experience, homeschooling for 10 years in 3 different states and another country. My experience has been that you must *agree with all statements* in the SOF in order to join and that the intent is to exclude anyone who may disagree in any way. It's been my experience that inclusive groups (in the "we want you to respect our beliefs, even if you disagree" way) label themselves a Christian group, but do not have a SOF.

[Sweetest]

Jennifer, thanks for your very clear explanation upthread about why that 'statement of faith' wouldn't work for a Catholic. I'm Jewish so all of this is a bit alien to me, but very interesting.

I always wonder if the folks where I live think Catholicism is contagious.

 

"Oh, no! Little Tyler sat next to that papist girl at the art museum and now I think he's coming down with teh catholics! You haven't seen him doing any works, have you?"

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

 

The problem *I*, as a non literal, non conservative Christian would have is the cumulative dynamic, tone and behavior that is almost always found in homeschool settings with a SOF. It's not the SOF, it's what is found within a group that feels the need for one.

 

Well said! A Christian group that feel the need to exclude is not a group I want to be a part of!

 

 

Serious question, not intended to be snarky:

 

If someone were dishonest and untrustworthy enough to attempt to teach your children against your religion behind your back, would a statement of faith stop them?

 

Hmm, that's a great point.

 

These are the parts that would keep me, as a Mormon out of that group. We believe in faith and works, that there is more scripture than just the bible, and that God and Christ and the Holy Ghost are three separate people, not just one person. I fully consider myself Christian, but I couldn't, in good conscience, sign that. I don't have a problem associating with those who believe those things, though.

 

My daughter is only 2, so I haven't had to face SOFs yet, but I have a decision to make about whether or not I should worry about them. Is it wrong to sign a statement of faith if you are doing it with the intent to say "I understand and won't fight you on these things," even if you don't believe it yourself? That's the moral dilemma I'm faced with. Anyone have an opinion on that?

 

My local "Christian" Home Educators group has a requirement that you must "believe" the statements, (statements that Mormons, Catholics, and Orthodox Christians can not assent to!) As a Catholic I can't sign something that says I believe something I don't.

 

If I was asked to acknowledge and respect the SOF it would be a different matter. If it were a group that is respectful of other faiths while trying to maintain their particular Christian character I would probably be willing to sign. If it were a group that allowed others in so that they could "save the sinners", I would have to walk away.

 

I am a faithful Catholic Christian and I acknowledge and respect the beliefs of others, and I want my children to do the same. I don't think they will learn to do that in an exclusive Christian group, especially in one where the SOF excludes me as a Christian!

[Guest rubilynne4]

That has not been my experience, homeschooling for 10 years in 3 different states and another country. My experience has been that you must *agree with all statements* in the SOF in order to join and that the intent is to exclude anyone who may disagree in any way. It's been my experience that inclusive groups (in the "we want you to respect our beliefs, even if you disagree" way) label themselves a Christian group, but do not have a SOF.

hmmm, thanks for the enlightenment. i truly did not know this. i have never been required to sign a SOF just to join a group. i've read many, but never been rquired to sign in order to join. i have been, as a pp said, required to sign if i am in a position where i represent the said organization, which i can understand. obviously, if you represent an organization you should believe what they stand for, or why else would you want to represent it. this is truely unfortunate, as i have said before, as a christian we should want others to join in and see what we believe as the nature of my christianity is to share my faith, not exclude people. of course people will never agree on everything, even within my own church we don't agree on everything. how sad to exclude people, how will you ever dialogue and share.

Edited July 2, 2010 by rubilynne4

[dangermom]

My daughter is only 2, so I haven't had to face SOFs yet, but I have a decision to make about whether or not I should worry about them. Is it wrong to sign a statement of faith if you are doing it with the intent to say "I understand and won't fight you on these things," even if you don't believe it yourself? That's the moral dilemma I'm faced with. Anyone have an opinion on that?

I think it's important to ask the group what the deal with the SOF is. I think the default is probably that you're signing it saying that you believe the things on the list, so I wouldn't sign one unless we'd all made it very clear that all it meant was that I wouldn't argue. In fact I'd write out a little addendum stating that on the contract before signing.

 

I like my inclusive group, where everyone is welcome.

[Guest rubilynne4]

for those who are exclusive here is a cool saying you may want to consider. i came upon it in my study of faith. "fear is the opposite of faith." fear is believing for something bad to happen. i think people who fear those of a different belief are believing that something bad will happen if they allow others of differing beliefs around them. this is kind of sad. i know what i believe, my faith is not that easily shaken.

[silliness7]

I've never been in a group that asked us to sign a SOF. The fact that such groups exist doesn't weird me out in any way.

 

After all, we're not talking about a group of adults getting together to do xyz activity. I would find it extraordinarily weird and strange and exclusive if there were a Christian knitting group that only allowed like-minded knitters. Maybe such a group exists and that would be troublesome.

 

But groups specifically involving the education of children? How can that be weird? That is why many, many, many, many people homeschool. First of all because they believe that education and religion are intricately linked (not just religious education) and because they don't want to risk placing people in positions of authority over their children who may inadvertantly undermine the parent's teachings.

 

I had absolutely no idea that Catholics objected to certain articles that have been highlighted in previous threads. How awful if I joined a Catholic co-op and inadvertantly made a comment to a group of children about Scripture being the only rule for life. For people who believe that faith ought to inform *all* of life these kinds of "religious" thoughts are not limited to bible class. What if a group of Catholic kids started debating some ethical/moral point and asked a Protestant mom standing near to arbitrate? Could she say something totally inappropriate? Apparently!

 

Now I don't know if this happens in co-ops? It happened in college all the time. Discussions broke out in hallways about random topics and whatever prof was walking by would be called on to help out the discussion.

 

And as I'm typing this I'm realizing that probably a big part of the issue is that there are groups of us who look at *all* of life *fundamentally* differently. We operate under a completely different paradigm. What seems weird and snotty and exclusive to one group seems so natural and completely logical to another group.

 

There are private schools and colleges who have varying degrees of this SOF. My brother went to a college that required its students to agree with and to sign a statement of faith as did my sister. I, went to a college that had a SOF but did not require students to adhere to it. I even taught ESL as an adjunct and do not remember ever being required to sign a SOF or being asked questions regarding my beliefs.

 

I expect the wide world of homeschool co-ops would mirror what already exists in the world of private education. Some are stricter than others. Some will exclude you, some will exclude me. I don't see what's to get all worked up about. Find what suits you or start your own.

[elegantlion]

i do know that christians and non christians alike can have strong morals. i am in no way saying that if you are a non christian you are in any way amoral (i also know, that you can be a christian, and be amoral as well :D), just that morals may be different (i.e. some believe in same sex marriage, some don't).

also, i didn't mean that the attitude of such a group would be to proselytize/convert others, although it might be (some christians do have outreach ministries). i was coming from the standpoint that some ppl don't like that some christians in general share their faith (group setting or not). my point about this is that some christians believe that part of their living out their faith is to share it, as well as live it (not meaning we should shove it down someone's throat; i already conceded, and my reading of scripture confirms for me, that if you share, and a person doesn't want to hear it, then you don't continue sharing with them).

and i do think you can have a coop and include other beliefs, but if the coop is christian (whatever that may mean, i guess that's where SOF would clarify) then they obviously want to incorporate that into their coop, that's why it's "christian." i can understand why some would not want to be a part of a christian coop, but i don't think as christians we should exclude anyone, but we should make others aware of what we may teach. no hidden agendas. i would hope that those who don't agree with the beliefs could at least respect the right of such a coop to exist. people of all faiths have coops, groups for the express purpose also of teaching from their viewpoint.

i apologize if i'm rambling. just trying to make sense of all this.

 

Yes, it makes sense. Part of issue is that people have diverse opinions on what it means to be a christian. The statement of faith I opted not to sign declared that I would believe in YE creation and that the bible is the final word on creation.

 

I think some of these groups have a mentality of You're welcome to belong as long as you acknowledge the fact we're right and you're not.

 

It would be nice if we could just all play well together, but sadly it doesn't seem that way in many areas of life. I have no problem with the right of these groups to exist, I just have a right not to join them either.

[fivetails]

We believe:

 

The Bible is the only inspired and infallible written Word of God. (2 Timothy 3:16)

 

There is one living and true God who exists in three persons; Father, Son and Holy Spirit (the Trinity). (Matthew 28:19)

 

All men are sinners and in need of salvation. (Romans 3:23)

 

The Lord Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, died on the cross, rose bodily from the dead and ascended into heaven.

 

We are saved by grace through faith, which is a gift of God, not of our own works. Those who confess that Jesus is Lord, and believe in their hearts that He rose from the dead, will be saved. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9)

 

That our hope is not in the things of this world, but on our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have received eternal life. (2 Corinthians 4:16-18)

 

These are the parts that would keep me, as a Mormon out of that group. We believe in faith and works, that there is more scripture than just the bible, and that God and Christ and the Holy Ghost are three separate people, not just one person. I fully consider myself Christian, but I couldn't, in good conscience, sign that. I don't have a problem associating with those who believe those things, though.

 

My daughter is only 2, so I haven't had to face SOFs yet, but I have a decision to make about whether or not I should worry about them. Is it wrong to sign a statement of faith if you are doing it with the intent to say "I understand and won't fight you on these things," even if you don't believe it yourself? That's the moral dilemma I'm faced with. Anyone have an opinion on that?

 

Just to clarify - a bit of my post got away there.. the blue is the SOF that the group I belong to has, but I'd mentioned in my post that it's not actually *required* of people to sign, unless they want to hold "leadership" positions...I'm not really sure what they consider as those - haven't really paid that much attention to the details - but as far as I understand it, anyone can join the group...I think they have a separate thing to sign that says you don't agree with the SOF but that you understand the group itself does blah blah blah...

 

Honestly? If it was up to *me* - and it isn't, I'm one of the newest group members at only a year and a half.. the group has been around for some twenty or more years - I'd change it all up. I'd do away with the SOF completely and have the focus be on home education - not religious beliefs.

[kalanamak]

"If you don't mind that we're Catholic, we don't mind that you're not."

 

 

:lol:

 

 

I could see signing a behavior contract, i.e. expectations, but I find signing something about my belief is too mind-invadingly creepy. Too Orwellian.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

An observation based on reading some current threads here:

 

It is interesting to me how *we* Christians feel the need to EXCLUDE those who are not of the same belief as us from all possible opportunities for *relationship* (i.e. our groups, our circle of friends, our homes). Yet, we think we can be *effective witnesses* with people who don't know us from Adam and Eve via discussion on *message boards* or from posting one-liners on FB status.

 

It's so much easier to *say it* than to *live it*.

 

This is just a *general thought*, for a *general group of people*, regarding *general situations* and is not meant to inflame or judge any particular poster(s). :)

 

When a group has an SOF, I don't think that the intention is primarily to exclude others from all relationship. I think it is that they are putting together a group that will build close mentoring relationships and they want them to come from a shared faith perspective. This probably is more important in a coop teaching setting than a social oriented support group.

 

If for example, you were signing your kid up for a biology lab, you would want to know if the instructor had a particular viewpoint on evolution that was going to come out during the class. If your primary group events are meeting at the pool or the bowling alley, you probably don't need an SOF. If the group starts picnics with a prayer then a statement that it is a Christian organization might be enough of a heads up.

 

(In practice, I'm probably pickier about scout groups than homeschooling groups because I sometimes have choice in scout groups but seldome do with homeschooling.:001_smile:)

[Guest rubilynne4]

Yes, it makes sense. Part of issue is that people have diverse opinions on what it means to be a christian. The statement of faith I opted not to sign declared that I would believe in YE creation and that the bible is the final word on creation.

 

I think some of these groups have a mentality of You're welcome to belong as long as you acknowledge the fact we're right and you're not.

 

It would be nice if we could just all play well together, but sadly it doesn't seem that way in many areas of life. I have no problem with the right of these groups to exist, I just have a right not to join them either.

yes, i totally agree, it would be nice if we could all play well together. :D and i totally respect your right to not join if you don't agree. i am glad that you respect the right of the group to exist even if you don't agree. i guess part of the problem is that people believe stongly about what they believe, and sometimes this can come off as alienating to others. i very strongly believe what i believe(i, dare i say it, happen to be a YE creationist), but it is not my intention to alienate anyone. however a group might state in their SOF that they are YE creationist because they plan on teaching that. if i didn't agree i would want to know before my children were involved. this is not to say i wouldn't let them be involved, but that i would want to know in advance, and be able to present to them what we believe, and why we have a different belief. however, as Mrs. Mungo pointed out, if i didn't believe the SOF some groups wouldn't even let me in. that is something i think very unfortunate because i think that as a christian group we shouldn't exclude, but just let others know what we believe, and what might be discussed. then ask they respect that belief, not necessarily agree with it, but respect it, and know it may be addressed. if they don't want their child exposed to it then, of course they don't have to join. anyway, i think i'm rambling again. last thing, even though i'm YE, i still allow mt dc to be exposed to the beliefs of evolution (it's kind of hard not to as it's so pervasive anyway). we just discuss why we believe differently. i have to say, i sometimes feel on the excluded list when it comes to that, but that's okay, i don't expect everyone to like that i believe that way, even though it would be nice to be respected, and not treated like an idiot. i didn't come to the conclusion lightly, i read alot, on both sides, and came to it through much thought, just as i'm sure those who believe in evolution didn't just accepet it, but looked at both sides, and through much thought came to their conclusion. i know some on both sides probably didn't do this, but i guess they have that right too. it's been nice discussing this with you all. i just want to say that i have not felt alienated here which is nice. even knowing some of you probably strongly disagree with me, you have all been very respectful. i hope you feel i have been the same.:)

[OnTheBrink]

Okay, maybe not bigotry since by definition bigotry includes hate. I suppose the term would be old fashioned discrimination. "We do not want you in our group because you are ________>" Or, "We do not want you in our group because you do not believe_______."

 

I don't know. Either way I will not join a group that requires a SOF. I'd rather base my associations with people on something other than faith or politics. I suppose since I've been on the wrong end of religious discrimination I look at things differently.

 

Ok, I'll buy discrimination (for $800, please, Alex. LOL), but again, I think that has to be taught, as in, "We don't play with THOSE neighbors because they're Philabustanovians! And we all know what Philabustanovians believe. **shudder**" (I made up "Philabustanovians". Not bad for 2 am, eh?). I really believe it's how the parents teach the children to view those of differing beliefs that creates discriminatory thinking and behavior, not necessarily avoiding those who have different world-views. I will concede, however, that we're not around many folks who are that different from us. Our city isn't very diverse, and our circles are pretty tightly knit, but honestly, I think that's true of most people? Don't we all sorta hang closely with folks we identify with and relate to?

 

I've never been a part of any group, outside of my church, that had a SOF. And, at church, the purpose is to let visitors know what the church believes, what it stands for and what it won't compromise on, not to keep people out.

[Rosy]

The problem *I*, as a non literal, non conservative Christian would have is the cumulative dynamic, tone and behavior that is almost always found in homeschool settings with a SOF. It's not the SOF, it's what is found within a group that feels the need for one.

 

I get that...and I like to think of my group as being more inclusive than that...I know when I teach classes on current events/politics, there is a lot of room for differing opinions and controversy. All that to say, I don't think it *has* to be that way. Maybe that's naive of me, though.

 

Serious question, not intended to be snarky:

 

If someone were dishonest and untrustworthy enough to attempt to teach your children against your religion behind your back, would a statement of faith stop them?

 

Do I think there are people out there who take a day out of their weeks to join co-ops where they are unwelcome to teach other people's kids to abandon their faith? That seems a bit farfetched. I'm not going to avoid my kids being taught by others because of the off-chance of that happening. If that were happening, the SOF would give me opportunity to deal with the situation without having to quit my group. My kids will eventually have to decide for themselves. I'm not afraid of their hearing different perspectives, I just want to be involved and aware of it at their current ages.

 

The little box with the "+ at the bottom right is the multiquote button. Click it for each post you want to quote. I can't do it with too many quotes or I confuse myself. ;)

 

I'm not judging you, just asking. And if you read my post that has the story of our experience you should understand where I'm coming from. I can't call that family closed-minded. I suppose it is more of a fearful thing. And I suppose if one isn't teaching one's children to fear other religions, races or cultures then I'm okay with it. Not that me being okay with anything amounts to a hill of beans to anyone but me.

 

Because I've come up against religious discrimination personally I'm a bit vocal when it comes to these type things.

 

Thank you for the hypothetical welcome. :grouphug:

 

Yay--multiquote!! Thanks for the tip!

 

I do understand (I think) where you're coming from, and I can imagine it would be extremely hurtful, especially when your kids are involved.

 

When a group has an SOF, I don't think that the intention is primarily to exclude others from all relationship. I think it is that they are putting together a group that will build close mentoring relationships and they want them to come from a shared faith perspective. This probably is more important in a coop teaching setting than a social oriented support group.

 

If for example, you were signing your kid up for a biology lab, you would want to know if the instructor had a particular viewpoint on evolution that was going to come out during the class. If your primary group events are meeting at the pool or the bowling alley, you probably don't need an SOF. If the group starts picnics with a prayer then a statement that it is a Christian organization might be enough of a heads up.

 

(In practice, I'm probably pickier about scout groups than homeschooling groups because I sometimes have choice in scout groups but seldome do with homeschooling.:001_smile:)

 

Exactly!! And it's not to say that any of us wouldn't take a biology class from an excellent teacher who happened to be an evolutionist (ok, probably some wouldn't). But at this stage, I want to know that....and many other things. That's part of why I homeschool--to be directly involved.

[Violet Crown]

How awful if I joined a Catholic co-op and inadvertantly made a comment to a group of children about Scripture being the only rule for life.

 

Well, speaking as a Catholic, I don't think it would be the proximate cause of sending them sprinting to the nearest Baptist church. Besides, I heard much more heretical, non-Catholic stuff while sitting in on the dds' CCD (Sunday school) classes.;)

 

I had Baptist teachers in my ps all my young life, and one LDS teacher, who were very open about their faith (not proselytizing, but not feeling like they had to shut up about it either), and all it did was confirm for me that I could be as comfortable with my own convictions as they were with theirs, and that neither Baptists nor Mormons were scary, alien people.

 

This is one reason I'm so happy with my little hs support group in my town. We include an atheist, a Quaker, a Moslem, an Episcopalian, a Wiccan, a Baptist, and a few flavors of non-denom Protestant. We discuss faith openly, in the hearing of our children, and I can't imagine anything bad coming out of it. We care for and respect each other's beliefs or lack thereof.

 

ETA: Can't believe I forgot our Dutch Reformed mom!

ETA2: ... and our Baha'i mom. We're like the United Nations at park day.

Edited July 2, 2010 by Sharon in Austin

[weaver_67579]

I don't know how to answer your question, except that I homeschool my kids because I'm concerned about what they're learning. I have no reason to assume that someone I don't know would or would not have an interest in persuading my kids to believe what they believe. For all the rational, reasonable people like you out there, I am sure there are some that aren't. And since my kids are young and I'm not in their classes with them, it's important to me to know broadly what they will/won't be taught. FTR, our co-op has Catholics and Protestants of all flavors. I'm sure we have at least 15 churches represented among us. Old-earth, young-earth, liberals, conservatives, different ethnic backgrounds etc. etc.

QUOTE]

 

what they will be taught be discussed in the planning meeting? Not all subjects-dare I say most in my world, do not have any direct link to relious hot topics or can be arranged so they will not come up. Besides, if someone really wanted to wast a day a week to lie on a statement of faith to go indoctrinate others' kids-they have more spare time in their life than me.

 

I get the right to be an exclusive group. Just call a spade a spade and not just generic Christian homeshcool group-call it the conservative XYZ group and be up front about it. I just don't get the assumption that others are out to undermine the parents on any kind of regular basis to have it be a problem.

 

I can't sign most of the SOF's in our area, but I am fine with not signing but respecting the faiths of others and the group as a whole. I expect the same in return.

[Parrothead]

 

I get the right to be an exclusive group. Just call a spade a spade and not just generic Christian homeshcool group-call it the conservative XYZ group and be up front about it. I just don't get the assumption that others are out to undermine the parents on any kind of regular basis to have it be a problem.

 

.

:iagree:especially with the bolded. Maybe I'm naive, but does this sort of thing happen? Do parents working with a co-op actively try to convert children? And if they do, do they think said children will actually be able to get themselves to an alternative church on Sunday morning?

 

Should I be afraid of what happened to dd and be afraid of the things she learned this week at Baptist camp? No! The worst that will happen is she will come home and have questions that will have to be answered.

 

Maybe I'm more trusting in my dd, my faith and myself.

 

I"m done wtih this thread. It is starting to make me a little angry and a whole lot of sad.

[mcconnellboys]

Well, when folks here used to be asked to sign a statement of faith, it wasn't so much what was said in it as the implications that went along with it that were troublesome for me. At one point, some of them got so specific that they really precluded some Christian groups, such as Catholics, from signing (unless they really weren't being true to their faith - and I know that some did sign anyway).

 

Now a lot of groups here tend to say things more in the vein of: "We are a bunch of Christian folks." If you wish to participate in things with us, then we expect you to understand that you may run up against our religious practices, conversation that includes religion, etc. If you have widely divergent beliefs, we'd prefer that your children do not share those with our children while in line at gymnastics, by drawing anagrams on their hands for them, etc., as a for-instance. But you may participate with us if you wish. You do not have to share our religious beliefs to do so.

 

So it's gotten looser here than it was for a while. It will just depend on your area. If you know others who participate, then you might ask them what they've seen in how this plays out over the course of a given year.

[Mrs Mungo]

If you have widely divergent beliefs, we'd prefer that your children do not share those with our children while in line at gymnastics, by drawing anagrams on their hands for them, etc., as a for-instance. But you may participate with us if you wish. You do not have to share our religious beliefs to do so.

 

:confused: Do you mean pentagrams or something else? An anagram is making new words out of a word. Like, tap riot or pair tot would be anagrams of patriot.

[Rosy]

 

Can't what they will be taught be discussed in the planning meeting? Not all subjects-dare I say most in my world, do not have any direct link to relious hot topics or can be arranged so they will not come up. Besides, if someone really wanted to wast a day a week to lie on a statement of faith to go indoctrinate others' kids-they have more spare time in their life than me.

 

We don't have a planning meeting. The teachers decide what they teach in their classes.

 

I think you misunderstood me. I don't expect someone to lie on a SOF to come in and indoctrinate my kids. That's why I don't worry about sending them off to class. I do expect people to teach what they believe to be true. That's why I am comfortable having my kids taught by people who *generally* believe what I believe.

 

:iagree:especially with the bolded. Maybe I'm naive, but does this sort of thing happen? Do parents working with a co-op actively try to convert children? And if they do, do they think said children will actually be able to get themselves to an alternative church on Sunday morning?

 

Should I be afraid of what happened to dd and be afraid of the things she learned this week at Baptist camp? No! The worst that will happen is she will come home and have questions that will have to be answered.

 

Maybe I'm more trusting in my dd, my faith and myself.

 

I"m done wtih this thread. It is starting to make me a little angry and a whole lot of sad.

 

I don't know if it happens. I just know that I want to wait before my kids learn about certain things without my being there. Evolution, witches (good or bad), alternative views of the Bible, Judy Blume books, etc.

 

I'm out too--it sucks being accused of discrimination and bigotry.

[jewellsmommy]

for those who are exclusive here is a cool saying you may want to consider. i came upon it in my study of faith. "fear is the opposite of faith." fear is believing for something bad to happen. i think people who fear those of a different belief are believing that something bad will happen if they allow others of differing beliefs around them. this is kind of sad. i know what i believe, my faith is not that easily shaken.

 

 

I totally agree, as an adult, I can understand, define and explain my faith. A child with little discernment cannot. Rather others agree or not, it is my prerogative to raise my child within my faith. Now, if the person teaching my child science can only teach it from perspective x because that is all they know and it is differnt than my perspective then it becomes confusing to the child. In a co-op all the parents participate in instruction in one way or another.

 

My co-op is not a "social group". I go there for PE, art, and science. I want them taught as close to my own beliefs as possible. I don't want to go home and say "now remember when the teacher said xyz, well we don't believe that etc" If I wanted that hassle, I would put my child in public school.

 

SOFs prevent people from erupting into debate in the middle of the science class or history class. For goodness sake, could you imagine what would happen if you had all the parents here in the same history class? If Bill were there we would never get past the book selections/curriculum. :D (not picking on Him, I swear!

 

It is not about exclusion!!!!! It is about educating the children. We all have different ideas how it should be done. Thus, the SOF!

 

Some say x subject does not need to be from a christian perspective. Fine, that is your opinion and right. BUT, maybe I want it to be that way. We would openly disagree and would have a hard time settling that in the middle of a class full of kids! That is why the statement of faith exists. It settles all this up front.

[StephanieZ]

Or the ones that say if you are single and "co-habitating" with the parent of your child you can't be raising you child in a loving home.

 

"we reject transitory co-habitational relationships as being equally in violation of God's laws and incapable of providing long-term nurture and instruction needed by children as commanded by God"

 

Yup...I didn't join. I couldn't. My sister is a single mom living with her boyfriend and his son. They are happy, she loves her kids, she nurtures them. It goes against me to believe something like this.

 

*shrug* What can ya do?

 

 

 

transitory = short-lived, emphemeral, temporary. . .

 

Perhaps you could agree with it afterall. . . I am sure your sister's relationship is not expected to be short-lived. . . but rather is a serious long-term commitment. . . So, I think, grammatically, you could likely agree with the statement in that you probably do reject SHORT-TERM living together with a child. . .

 

(They might have intended to describe ALL cohabitation as transitory. . . but I don't think that grammatically that is necc. what they have actually done, lol)

 

:tongue_smilie:

[Guest rubilynne4]

transitory = short-lived, emphemeral, temporary. . .

 

Perhaps you could agree with it afterall. . . I am sure your sister's relationship is not expected to be short-lived. . . but rather is a serious long-term commitment. . . So, I think, grammatically, you could likely agree with the statement in that you probably do reject SHORT-TERM living together with a child. . .

 

(They might have intended to describe ALL cohabitation as transitory. . . but I don't think that grammatically that is necc. what they have actually done, lol)

 

:tongue_smilie:

that is the word i keyed in on as well "transitory."