Very personal ? for atheists (from an atheist)

[chiguirre]

I had a similar experience when dd was in the NICU after being born premature and developing a rotavirus infection. I didn't say anything, just went along with the saint's cards on the incubator and such. Really, I just didn't have the extra mental energy available to stand up for myself and it didn't bother dh. OTOH, this was in Venezuela and it's just part of the cultural background, not as in your face as it is in America.

 

I do get lots of religious comments about my sons. I find this really irritating, but I just go with the flow. I don't want my kids to be ostracized and most hsers around here are evangelical, so I keep my mouth shut. I wish I lived in a more secular friendly place, but it is what it is and you have to make the best of it.

 

In my personal experience, it's easier to deal with grief as an atheist. I think it's much harder for someone who believes in an omnipotent, beneficent deity to accept that bad things happen, and some of them will happen to them. If you have no particular reason to think you'll be magically protected from life's hardships, you have a better chance of rising to the occasion when you have to.

 

I'll be thinking about you and hope that you're in the 80% that find out that everything is fine. I found that concentrating on the likelihood of dd getting better and dss making progress helped me keep on keeping on.

[mommaduck]

*deleted as it stretches off topic and in a direction I did not intend*

Edited June 22, 2010 by mommaduck

[keptwoman]

I'm sorry Carrie. :grouphug:

People say some really dumb stuff when they are in situations like that.

[Caitilin]

:grouphug: Thinking of you in this trying time. I know how bad not knowing something can be. No advice, just lots of :grouphug::grouphug:.

[secular_mom]

no longer relevant. :)

 

Peace,

Gin

Edited June 22, 2010 by secular_mom
quoted post was edited

[May]

:grouphug: Hope you find out the results soon. Like others have said, sometimes people say stuff without thinking how it will come across.

[mommaduck]

To the OP, again, I agree with Audrey that next time just state that it's not up for discussion as you don't share her beliefs...it will let her know that she has crossed a personal boundary with you and she is professionally obligated to not cross it again. I've had this happen with a physician before as well on a different issue. I spoke with the nurses after the umpteenth time and they placed a note on my records that it was not to be mentioned again.

Edited June 22, 2010 by mommaduck

[Heather in Neverland]

Gosh...the "God's will" thing really bugs me sometimes. He seems to get blamed for a lot of things as being "His will".

 

A friend of mine, a very strong Christian, ended up leaving the church because she had a miscarriage and so many people kept telling her it was "God's will" and really sort of condemning her for grieving...like she should just suck it up because it was God's will and any sign of grieving was a lack of faith or something? It was awful.

 

I think some comments are harmless (like if someone says they are praying for you) but comments about whether or not the particular tragedy was "God's will" are NOT helpful at all.

[lmrich]

:grouphug:I hope you find peace soon.

[kalanamak]

unfortunately, people who don't know *what* to say, rather than just shutting up, often say things that are not true or applicable.

 

:iagree:

 

They forgot the good advice they tell doctors: don't just do something, stand there.

 

I asked my sister, once, how she coped, and she said whenever someone starts rabbiting on about God, she heard the word "good". It has helped me.

 

:grouphug: There are no words that heal this. I, too, would be in my house for quite some time, much the way a wounded animal drags itself off into the bushes. We feel vulnerable when we are raw.

 

I don't know why people jump to the conclusion that everyone else wants a afterlife to smooth over life's sorrows. Perhaps they can't face life without that thought. Whatever their reason, sometimes you feel you have to be strong for everybody. A friend with cancer said he hated people to know about it, because then he was there comforting weeping people. Instead, he did a lot of things with me and my ex-dh. We didn't know him except as a passing acquaintance, but put ourselves forward to drive him after his tumor gave him seizures. A walk around the lake was a walk around the lake, not a sad journey with a teary teenaged daughter thinking her daddy would be gone soon. (Even so, his wife did have to tell me that God sent the ex and me to them when He did. Here I thought we were just being decent folk.)

 

I am reminded of that Jackson Browne line about "when you have a real friend somewhere, suddenly all the others are so much easier to bear".

:grouphug:

[JennyD]

I'm so sorry to hear about your stress, and I am hoping beyond hope that your results are good.

 

FWIW, I would be completely horrified if a medical professional started talking about religion.

[Imprimis]

I'm so sorry you're going through this, Carrie.

 

Good intentions and faith aside, it's very unprofessional for someone in the medical profession to speak to a patient this way.

 

:grouphug:

[Carol in Cal.]

Carrie,

I am so sorry about what you are going through, and appalled that you're hearing what you're hearing from others, especially your midwife.

:grouphug: Carol

[Desert Rat]

Ya know, Carrie, it's when times are tough that I almost wish I could believe. It does seem easier. But in my heart I know that wouldn't be true to myself. I'm not sure where I fall on the religion spectrum but I tend toward athiest, so I feel comfortable talking to you about it.

Although my personal bad times seem like small potatoes compared to yours, I take one day at a time. I understand that life will be what it will be and worrying about it doesn't change the outcome, neither does fervently hoping for a different outcome. And when I can't even handle the thought of taking one day at a time, I try an hour, heck, I've even done minutes.

I share in your pain and grief. By sharing, we lessen the burden. And your burden is great right now.

[scrappyhappymama]

:grouphug: I wish you peace.

[annandatje]

An answer from an atheist: tell them you are an atheist so their efforts at consoling you with their belief in a deity's will and an afterlife are not helpful.

 

Probably will not do much good. When my father was dying in a hospital, he requested we tape on his door a note stating that he was not in need of religious counseling, Bible reading, or praying. This was in a small predominantly Southern Baptist town. Several of the nurses and doctors ignored his request. Unbelievably a Baptist preacher unknown to him barged into his room uninvited to "save" him.

 

Fortunately the hospice staff was respectful of his lack of spirituality so his last weeks at home were free of the unwanted intrusions.

 

I suspect their platitudes are more for their own comfort than yours because they are envisioning being in your situation. There are so many nonspecific things people can say at a time like this. Just the plain old heartfelt "I am sorry that you are going through this" would be acceptable.

[juelle]

A mom in our hs group just went through this. The waiting must be so hard, and I am terribly sorry for your trouble. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

When my son died, I really would have hit someone if they quoted a particular verse that Christians often use in tough situations. I told the hospital that I didn't want the chaplain because I couldn't stand to talk with someone whose beliefs might grate on my spirit. And I'm a Christian!

 

You must take care of yourself. Your energy is a precious commodity. Do what you need to in order to survive. This is hard. It just is. I'm so sorry. Again,:grouphug:

[IsabelC]

So sorry that you are going through this extremely difficult time.

 

The only thing I can suggest is that you try to look after yourself and don't bother too much about not offending people. Generally if somebody makes a comment that they are praying for me, I simply thank them and appreciate their kindness even though I do not believe that their prayers will have any effect on the externalities of the situation. However if somebody were really bugging me with religious stuff, I would not hesitate to respectfully inform them that I don't share their faith, and what they are saying is unhelpful for me.

 

Also bear in mind that the vast majority of people are trying to be supportive, and maybe they just don't know what else they can say. So if you have the energy, it would be worth telling them what they could say or do that would make you feel more supported. (You may rather they don't say anything. That is fine too.)

Edited June 22, 2010 by Hotdrink

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I am not an atheist- BUT my 4 year old son was also diagnosed with trisomy 18. I spent HOURS a day researching and crying over it. I had all I could to pick myself up off the bed in the morning. I had an amniosentesis and that confirmed it. (supposedly) When I got to 8 months they did another and said no, it was trisomy 21 (down syndrome) So I was ecstatic!!! (a deadly diagnoses compared to downs syndrome???? NO COMPARISON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) So I researched downs. I joined our local UPS for DOWNS (United Parent Support Group forDown Syndrome) Then my baby was born. He had nothing wrong with him. The dr STILL would not admit it. He said- "Your son has a straight verticle line in his palm-- that means he could still have it even though the obvious signs are not there:glare:)

 

So basically all I want to say- is drs are not always right. They do mis-diagnose-- Just wait and see- what is will be- It can not be changed. Please do not put yourself through the hell I did agonizing over this. Now my son is a happy hyper 4 year old!

[Slartibartfast]

I am so sorry. I wish you peace.

 

:grouphug:

 

 

I will pray for those doing this to you that they get a clue and be better examples. :(

Edited June 22, 2010 by Sis

[funschooler5]

I'm so sorry that you have to go through this. :grouphug:

 

I'm an athiest, and I've often wondered how I would react in a situation like this. I usually keep my mouth shut about every day things, but I can imagine something like this would be enough to put anyone over the edge.

 

I hope you are able to find the support you need.

[Peela]

Atheist here. Lots of :grouphug:

I am not surrounded by Christians- very few in my life and I dont live in a predominantly Christian area. I would not handle that sort of thing but I dont get it much either.

I think I would try and take the good wishes as intended, though. Since I pray and talk to angels/unembodied being of light, even as a non Christian, I kind of translate their belief systems into my reality and accept the blessing.

Depends though. If inappropriate, maybe just say so, or say you are an atheist. If they continue tell them what you really feel if they are stepping over the line.

Do you have your own support system to fall back to, to draw sustainance from? Whether that's people or beliefs or a real life friend or some sort of thing like meditation?

Or, as one of my teachers often says, life is not about avoiding the hard bits, its about learning how to handle them better. They dont go away, apparently.

I am in the middle of a really rough time myself right now. I send you more :grouphug:

[Jenny in Atl]

:grouphug:Though not nearly as painful, I went through similar emotions and run-ins after my youngest was diagnosed with Type-1 Diabetes. In the ambulance ride to the children"s hospital, the driver kept telling me to pray, and said, "God only gives you what you can handle; that he had chosen me."

 

It really was not the time nor place, but I said nothing. I guess I've learned to just say nothing after living in these parts for over 30 years.

[laughing lioness]

Carrie:grouphug:.

We went through a really challenging time this past fall. We were surrounded by people of our belief system but even with that so often people said the "wrong" thing.The loss and grief were overwhelming at times and everyone wanted to "help" but so much of the "help" wasn't.

It's so difficult to have grace for others when you are working hard to hold it together. Often I wouldnt' say anything (bean dip), but would blog about it later. I needed an outlet for all of the feelings where I could remain true to my own value system (not tell poeple off and feel that I had to apologize later) but not carry all of the frustration around with me, or vent at my poor dh. Journals/blogs can be wondeful things.

I'm so sorry you are going through a season of such hardship and pain!

[KnitWit]

I am not an atheist- BUT my 4 year old son was also diagnosed with trisomy 18. I spent HOURS a day researching and crying over it. I had all I could to pick myself up off the bed in the morning. I had an amniosentesis and that confirmed it. (supposedly) When I got to 8 months they did another and said no, it was trisomy 21 (down syndrome) So I was ecstatic!!! (a deadly diagnoses compared to downs syndrome???? NO COMPARISON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) So I researched downs. I joined our local UPS for DOWNS (United Parent Support Group forDown Syndrome) Then my baby was born. He had nothing wrong with him. The dr STILL would not admit it. He said- "Your son has a straight verticle line in his palm-- that means he could still have it even though the obvious signs are not there:glare:)

 

So basically all I want to say- is drs are not always right. They do mis-diagnose-- Just wait and see- what is will be- It can not be changed. Please do not put yourself through the hell I did agonizing over this. Now my son is a happy hyper 4 year old!

 

Carrie...I just wanted to add that this *very same scenario* happened to both a friend and a family member of mine.

[ciyates]

I am a Christian and I almost said that exact same thing to people trying to "comfort" me during my miscarriages.

 

 

 

:iagree:

I have been there as well. Nothing anyone says can comfort you right now and you would be better off if they didn't try. I am sorry my Christian brethren are causing you pain instead of comfort. Be very direct with them. They are not in the crisis you are and can handle whatever you dish out.

 

You have every right to feel whatever emotions you are currently going through. Take care of you and don't worry about anything else.

[jplain]

Yep, people say dumb stuff, because they have no idea what it is like to be in your shoes.

 

When I was in a similar situation, which dragged on for 2 months, I finally found an approach that worked for me. I'd interrupt the speaker (rudely if necessary) and then gently say, "Thank you for your concern/support/love/whatever. I'd rather you say 'I'm so sorry,' and leave it at that, because what you're saying right now is only upsetting me more." That shuts up most everyone. If necessary, pass the bean dip.

 

:grouphug:

[meet me in paris]

Carrie :grouphug:

That just stinks all around... what a terrible spot to be in. So sorry that you have to go through this and that it has to be made worse by people saying stupid things. I had multiple miscarriages, and the way it was handled by people in church (and by my family) was one of the main reasons I left that world behind.

 

Peace to you -

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:grouphug:

[Nakia]

Carrie,

 

You have been on my mind since you first posted. Just wanted you to know I am still thinking of you and hoping for your peace during this time. :grouphug: