Ds9 stealing food...

[Aubrey]

We were cleaning up the living room yesterday, & I usually make one of the kids clean under the sofa, but this time I did it. I found a pile of candy wrappers, peanut butter chips, etc. The other morning I caught him w/ his mouth full of white choc chips. He ate most of a batch of peanut butter balls out of the freezer before that.

 

Apparently, these have not been isolated incidents. They've been months apt for the most part, but when we found the trash under the sofa, he told us that he's been sneaking sweet stuff in the mornings, every morning. If people wake up earlier than he expects, he stashes his stuff or eats less. Maybe 1 pc of candy those days. Other days? He guessed 15 pcs. (He wakes up between 4 & 6AM.)

 

This morning--immediately after yesterday's discovery--I found a half-eaten cupcake stuffed into the bread basket. Dh woke up earlier than ds expected, he hid the cupcake as fast as he could, & went back to bed.

 

He's lied about a lot of it, so that's an issue. The sneaking is obviously a problem. And he seems to have a real sugar problem. Really, we're not usually such a sugary house--Halloween candy sits for over a yr, for ex. The candy he's been sneaking this week came home from church for Mother's Day. The cupcake was leftover from one of dd's bdays--we've had 2 in the last mo. And baking supplies...well, I keep those around, but honestly, they go bad faster than we use them.

 

After finding the sofa trash, ils called to take the dc to a movie, the first time in 4yrs. They went, on the condition of no food, which was fine, & then ds got cookies in Sun sch this AM (he was told he couldn't have anything sweet & when dh showed up, he tried to hide it). After last weekend's bday, there's a family party we have to attend next week, then my mother will be in town, followed by an end-of-yr party in church & then mil's 60th bday. Why is this relevant? I guess...I'm shocked at how hard it is going to be to keep him from having sugar for the next few weeks.

 

I don't want to say more until I've heard y'all's thoughts.

[OrganicAnn]

Is he really hungry in the morning? Does he have a weight problem? We can't see your son, so we don't know if there are any other issues. Is there weight problems in the family? If adopted, did heexperience severe deprivation that might be a factor (just throwing this in because I've heard of other stories like this).

 

It can be very difficult to restrict all sugar when you are involved in social events. People always want to give kids cookies, candy etc.

 

Restricting sugar does not have to be the only punishment to sneaking sugar.

 

What punishment would you give if he just lied about something else?

[Melissa in Australia]

I remember steeling food at around 9. My bedroom was right beside the pantry. in fact. I had to walk through the pantry to go to the kitchen. I just use to steal icing sugar(confectionery sugar). I don't remember if I got caught or not. I know that after a few months I no longer craved sugar.

[Aubrey]

He does wake up really hungry, but there are plenty of other things available to him. We lived w/ ils when he was born (not adopted--hopefully we haven't deprived him!), & he'd get breakfast 4x--once from ea person who got up & left for work, lol.

 

Now, it's not too different. He has a piece of fruit or something like that (theoretically, I guess), then I fix a bigger breakfast around 8.

 

He doesn't have a weight issue. He's on the skinny side & short for his age. When he cinches up his pants, it's actually kind-of funny. :001_smile: There are weight issues in my family, but the signficant ones are distant enough & few enough that that doesn't overly concern me. My grm was recently diagnosed w/ diabetes, but...the way she eats, I'm not shocked by that, if that makes sense.

 

The only thing *seeing* ds might change is--he's got a very...quiet, w/drawn personality. It seems to be getting more that way, not less, the older he gets, &...it makes me nervous. It's not nec. a problem, but when I find out he's been lying, it does make me worry more.

 

We've never really come up w/ a good solution for lying. The consequences tend to be related to whatever he's lied about, & that's usually food. :001_huh:

 

More so than w/ any other parenting issue so far, I'm afraid of doing the wrong thing now.

[Aubrey]

I remember steeling food at around 9. My bedroom was right beside the pantry. in fact. I had to walk through the pantry to go to the kitchen. I just use to steal icing sugar(confectionery sugar). I don't remember if I got caught or not. I know that after a few months I no longer craved sugar.

 

We've caught him at this off & on for a few yrs, though. We always believed that it had been solved, was isolated to a particular food, I don't know. I guess we were afraid of overreacting?

[Aubrey]

Have you tried giving him other options in the morning?

 

What do you mean? We've tried making him stay in bed until 7. We've tried telling him NO FOOD until adults are there to give it to him. He used to have access to all b'fast foods, but he'd eat an entire box of cereal, for ex, & leave the crumbs *everywhere* like land mines.

 

The last two mornings, he's cooked eggs for himself (after we're up). I really think that if it were a hunger issue, he'd be choosing something more substantial. For a while, he was making oatmeal for himself in the microwave.

 

We've always got a full fruit bowl, usually some kind of bread--bagels, toast, English muffins, etc., some kind of cereal, etc. Then I make something after human hrs like green smoothies, yogurt (w/ fresh fruit, etc), eggs, pancakes, etc.

[Melissa in Australia]

Is it possible that he could be hungry? Could he be given permission to help himself to cereal early in the morning?

 

I know that when I am hungry, I catch myself reaching for sugar.

 

Just asking because my oldest ds needed huge amounts of food at age 9. In fact I got worried about him overeating. He then started a growth spurt at 10, and grew at least 1 inch every month for the next 2 years, finishing at 13 years old at 6 foot4 inches.

[Jana]

My oldest will do things like this and there are always consequences. But it is usually a signal that he need more control over his life. So I find ways (not necessarily food related) to let him regulate his own life.

 

For example, I give him an allotment of sweets for the week (or for a few days) and he decides when to have them. But when they are gone, they're gone. Or we give him an allotment of screen time for the week, he can spend at the rate he chooses. You get the idea. Find something important to him, that he can control. We tinker usually tinker around with this for a while, to see what exactly helps him.

 

This is about control, not about food. So find appropriate ways to give me more control and see what happens.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Jana

[OrganicAnn]

Since he is skinny, I'd find something you feel comfortable with and you feel would satisfy his hunger. Maybe something like granola bars? That he has permission to eat (maybe with limit... upto 3) and one or two other choices. Protein or fruit. A skinny boy that is hiding food because he doesn't want to get caught, sounds like a bad dynamic. He'll only get hungrier, until about 25. I don't think he should have to wait till you are up if he is hungry, but it has to be something that you all can agree too.

 

Then deal with the lying and deal with how he is making the choice to sneak the food and not going to you and asking for something more to eat.

 

I would not restrict sugar for the social events.

 

Can he use microwave? you could precook bacon, sausage or even eggs to be warmed up in the microwave.

Edited May 17, 2010 by OrganicAnn

[amy g.]

When I read "stealing" food, I thought you meant from a store or from someone else's house.

 

To me, food that I get at the store belongs to our family, so no one in our family could steal it.

 

Anything I buy is fair game unless I say something like, "Don't eat those dried apricots in the pantry. I got them to make granola."

 

My 11 year old loves carbs, so I don't buy cereal, bread or tortillas because if I do she won't eat anything else.

 

If he were my child, I'd allow him to have a cookie at church, or a piece of cake at a party, but just not buy any more sugary things for the house.

 

Editing to add that I would not do anything about the lying except top explain how it makes you feel when he lies, and how it damages your relationship with him.

Edited May 17, 2010 by amy g.

[Starr]

I agree that it's not about food. There must be books on this sort of happening. We have friends with a dd that took things she wasn't allowed from her parents and relatives and then as she got older from friends homes and church. Her issues had nothing to do with what she took. He's still a little guy and I'm sure you can help him over this hump. More people on this "board of all things" (as my dd calls it) must have dealt with this problem. Here's a :grouphug: and prayer for all of you.

[sbgrace]

It may be something bigger but my initial impression was he likely needs more calories (and he likes junk...which isn't that unusual among kids or even adults). Are you certain he's getting the calories that a nine year old needs? I'm asking because he's small (as are my kids) and boys of this age seem to eat tons of calories. I was shocked, absolutely shocked, when a nutritionist told me the average intake of a six year old boy (1600 calories) and I'd assume nine year old is way more than that. It's more food than I need. You should be able to google and find calorie needs for his age.

 

I wouldn't absolutely restrict sugar (say at church). I'm not sure why you would want to especially given his sneaking it. I just wouldn't have the stuff I didn't want him to eat at home. But given his size and behavior I'd encourage him to have a substantial snack when he wakes. I would have something with carbs, fat, and protein if at all possible he could eat when he gets up. I'm thinking peanut butter and jam for example or granola. Not fruit alone. My guess is he can fill up in his early morning hours and then he'll eat again at family breakfast. Try it and see what happens.

 

My son has low blood sugar in the morning. He gets some juice very first thing when he wakes.

Edited May 17, 2010 by sbgrace

[iammommy]

You can pick some things together to fill the basket. That might give him some sense of control. The basket might contain a few less desirable things and a few healthier things. OR a basket could contain 4 snacks...1 fruit, 1 veggie, 1 salty, 1 sweet. Has his blood sugar level ever been checked? If he is hypoglycemic he night be craving the sugar. Hope this helps a little.

 

Nan

[Pippen]

To me, food that I get at the store belongs to our family, so no one in our family could steal it.

 

Anything I buy is fair game unless I say something like, "Don't eat those dried apricots in the pantry. I got them to make granola."

 

:iagree:

 

 

This just sounds like typical kid stuff to me. We didn't have a lot of sweets in the house while growing up and sometimes we would sneak baking supplies. My kids have done the same and the only consequence has been that when I went to bake them chocolate chip cookies and found the chips were gone, no cookies then. I don't think it's something to make a big deal out of, and certainly would never call it stealing.

 

The fact that sugar is off limits may be actually making it more desirable. Do you do anything like include some sweet options sometimes as afterschool snacks?

 

FYI: I agree about offering plenty of calories at that age. My son had a classmate that was begging classmates for food (usually fruit) at lunch. It was so beyond what most kids do I checked in with another mom who knew him and we seriously think the mom was extremely frugal and the kid wasn't getting enough to eat at home.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Pippen

[kalanamak]

My son can eat all day. He is bony, skinny as my brothers were. He is very active (two 2 hour sessions of playing tag with a rotating bunch of boys at the park today, e.g.)

 

I try to make plenty of sweet things available to him that aren't "empty". Cinn toast from Orowheat 100% WW, or honey toast ditto. Pudding, ice cream, choc souffle, carrot cake, WW fig newtons, WW cobbler bars. As long as he is still eating all the veggies and fruit I put in front of him, he has free run of "non-empty" sweets. To me, sweets is his way of getting enough calories he can leave the table, esp. since he isn't fond of fats.

[specialmama]

*If* his caloric and nutritional needs are met, then this is not about food. I agree with previous posters that it is a control issue. I too, would not limit food, as this makes it a battle ground. I'd get rid of the sugar in your home, and let him eat as much as he wants without rebuke. Then, I agree, let him have control of some things in his life, increase his responsibility. Let him choose what the breakfast menu will be. Perhaps in a few weeks, things will change.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Dd8 was sneaking food and lying about it when she felt deprived (she was on an elimination diet for allergies). I reach for sugar when I feel like I have low blood sugar - of course that results in my sugar going up and then crashing not so long afterward. I like the idea of having a basket of some stuff that he might like available to him. I would make sure that it included protein in it - a peanut butter sandwich perhaps if peanuts are ok or some cheese and crackers.

[Aubrey]

:iagree:

 

 

This just sounds like typical kid stuff to me. We didn't have a lot of sweets in the house while growing up and sometimes we would sneak baking supplies. My kids have done the same and the only consequence has been that when I went to bake them chocolate chip cookies and found the chips were gone, no cookies then. I don't think it's something to make a big deal out of, and certainly would never call it stealing.

 

The fact that sugar is off limits may be actually making it more desirable. Do you do anything like include some sweet options sometimes as afterschool snacks?

 

FYI: I agree about offering plenty of calories at that age. My son had a classmate that was begging classmates for food (usually fruit) at lunch. It was so beyond what most kids do I checked in with another mom who knew him and we seriously think the mom was extremely frugal and the kid wasn't getting enough to eat at home.

 

Sure. Sweets are only off-limits as a result of his behavior. I'd say he has something sweet (that I know about, lol) maybe once a week? But I make snacks like peanut butter balls (pb, honey, nuts, dried fruit, maybe some white choc chips), green smoothies (w/ honey), etc on an almost daily basis. Ils just took them for ice cream a week ago & brought some home for the freezer.

[Terabith]

:grouphug: Yeah, this doesn't sound like stealing to me. And he shouldn't have to sneak it. If it's there, it's free for people in the house to eat, unless it's been designated as for something in particular. My kids (5 and 6) will get up early and fix themselves bowls of cereal, get granola bars, fruit, drinks, etc. But it's my responsibility to not buy them, if I don't want her to eat them. If they're in the house, they are food for the family.

 

It just sounds to me like he likes sugar, and it's there, so he wants to eat it. Which really is just not a big deal. He knows you don't approve, hence the sneakiness. The sneakiness is the only problem. And you eliminate the sneakiness by it not being forbidden. If it's not normally there, because of the birthdays and Mother's Day stuff, then it's not a big deal because he's not getting massive amounts of sugar every single morning all year long. I would just tell him that you know, he's nine, and he is old enough to be responsible for what he eats in the mornings. If he eats all the Mother's Day candy in the house, then it will be gone that much sooner.

 

I try to get rid of control issues by not making it a controllable issue. They are in charge of what they eat, with the big caveat that if I don't want them to eat something, I don't have it in the house.

 

Exerting MORE control, by telling him what he can and can't eat at Sunday School and other places like that makes it more of a control issue. He wants to be in control, and he likes sugar, and then you add in the public aspect of he doesn't want to be different, and it seems like it might backfire.

[Joanne]

I'm wondering if it's not physiological rather than psychological. :confused:

 

He seems to crave carbs/sweets and you seem to want to fill him up with them.

 

I'm wondering if he needs unlimited access and easy options for protein?

 

I'm wondering if a carb-addictionk-like process is going on and now the sneaking is habit. Carbs on top of carbs don't have enough staying power in terms of fat and protein to adequately fuel a child.

[Aubrey]

*If* his caloric and nutritional needs are met, then this is not about food. I agree with previous posters that it is a control issue. I too, would not limit food, as this makes it a battle ground. I'd get rid of the sugar in your home, and let him eat as much as he wants without rebuke. Then, I agree, let him have control of some things in his life, increase his responsibility. Let him choose what the breakfast menu will be. Perhaps in a few weeks, things will change.

 

I've wondered about the control thing. He's our oldest, & you know how hard figuring things out w/ that first kid can be. I've sensed for a while now that he somehow needs bigger horizons, just not sure what. Good ideas.

[Pippen]

I've wondered about the control thing. He's our oldest, & you know how hard figuring things out w/ that first kid can be. I've sensed for a while now that he somehow needs bigger horizons, just not sure what. Good ideas.

 

Around age 10 my oldest was acting out and we realized he needed to stretch a little as well. We started letting him do things like staying up later on Saturday night to watch a movie with his dad and have popcorn or a pizza. Or after the little ones were in bed the two of us would sneak out of the house and go to the bookstore and hang out in the cafe while browsing books.

[Aubrey]

I'm wondering if it's not physiological rather than psychological. :confused:

 

He seems to crave carbs/sweets and you seem to want to fill him up with them.

 

I'm wondering if he needs unlimited access and easy options for protein?

 

I'm wondering if a carb-addictionk-like process is going on and now the sneaking is habit. Carbs on top of carbs don't have enough staying power in terms of fat and protein to adequately fuel a child.

 

This post is hard for me to follow--I'm afraid the words are too big for me! :001_huh:

 

So here goes (am I right?)--you think I'm wanting him to fill up on carbs, thereby feeding a carb/sweet addiction. I hope not. We do sometimes have more than I'd like, but I try to swing it the other way when that happens.

 

Unlimited access & easy options for protein--when I think protein, the only thing I come up w/ is meat & eggs. So you're suggesting precooked eggs/meat that he can eat whenever? That sounds fine to me. I have noticed that he does a lot better when I remember to feed him protein in the mornings. It's easy to forget when things get crazy, though.

 

I do think the sneaking has become a habit. Our thought has been that if we eliminated sugar/carbs completely for a few weeks, that would help break the habit. Our thoughts have been to try to approach this more from a standpoint of helping him than punishing him. The addictive behavior is my biggest concern.

[Peela]

I agree its not really stealing if it's food at home that is readily available, unless it's been specifically labelled "dont touch" for some reason. In fact, I would go as far as to say I wouldnt not expect many 9year olds with a sweet tooth to be able to control themselves from eating sweets that are readily available.

I would say, dont create a liar out of him by leaving food within reach that he musn't touch. Keep it out of sight and reach- "disappear it". I dont leave temptation in my kids' way.

Then, dont create a big deal about it. Let him eat sugar when out, and don't leave it around at home. Dont create food wars.

My son is old enough to ride up to the shop and buy food, and frequently does. I no longer try to stop him- instead, I try and feed him enough at home that those cravings arent such a big deal and he prefers to save his money.

 

To balance sugar cravings, give protein and plenty of healthy fats (which are sustaining and regulate blood sugar). Sugar is an addictive substance- its not easy to give up. Both my kids know it. Dh is crazy addicted to it (up to 5tsp of sugar in his coffee or tea!). I don't eat it. Dd has a personal goal not to eat it much. Ds is addicted to it but if I feed him enough meat and filling foods, its not such a big issue.

[Terabith]

I do think the sneaking has become a habit. Our thought has been that if we eliminated sugar/carbs completely for a few weeks, that would help break the habit. Our thoughts have been to try to approach this more from a standpoint of helping him than punishing him. The addictive behavior is my biggest concern.

 

I don't think that eliminating sugar and carbs will break the habit. I suspect it will, if anything, make sugar more desirable and cement the habit. He will view it as a punishment (and regardless of intention, it has that feel), and he will probably just try harder to just not get caught. I'm not sure that I've seen anything that screams addictive behavior here. I am just seeing nine year old kid-ness. It doesn't sound that pathological, and I don't want to see him developing feelings of shame around what he eats. I would just tell him, "You know, it's hard for moms and dads when their kids start to grow up. You are nine years old now, and you really are the only one who has control of your body. Too much sugar will make you feel icky, but you know that. We're going to try to offer you more food to eat in the morning. (precooked bacon or cheese or beans, etc)." And let it go at that.

 

Then, when he gorges and eats all the sugar in the house in a couple days, which he may well do, two things will happen. 1) He will realize that too much sugar makes you feel icky. And 2) There won't be any more sugar in the house.

 

I REALLY think that if you make a control issue out of it and start trying to limit what he eats/ doesn't eat at Sunday School or other social events, that it will set everyone in the family up for misery and him for bigger issues along the way. Plus, it just doesn't feel very respectful of him as a getting-older boy who needs to take more autonomy.

 

I think at another time, it makes sense to talk about self regulation. Although, if he's eating a little bit of sugar each day (a cupcake, etc), when he's up by himself for two hours in the insanely early wee hours of the morning, he sounds like he has developed a little ritual, which is different from addiction. He's not eating every morsel of sugar in the house, which if it were a true sugar addiction, he might do. He's having *some.* He IS self-regulating, just with a self regulation of "more" than you generally approve of.

[Corraleno]

The only thing *seeing* ds might change is--he's got a very...quiet, w/drawn personality. It seems to be getting more that way, not less, the older he gets, &...it makes me nervous. It's not nec. a problem, but when I find out he's been lying, it does make me worry more.

Is he an anxious or nervous kid? Easily upset or depressed? Could he be "self-medicating" with sugar?

 

Maybe, as other posters have suggested, this is just a control issue, in that he wants to have more control over eating what he wants when he wants. But it might also be a control problem in the opposite way ~ that he *can't* control his behavior. He may have such a strong craving for sugar that he's having a hard time resisting it, even though he knows it's wrong and will get him in trouble.

 

My DS and I are both very sensitive to sugar; a candy bar or bowl of ice cream will give me a boost of adrenalin and feel-good chemicals ~ soon followed by a crash and craving for more sugar. I was a very anxious, over-sensitive kid (as is my DS), and I would binge on sugar whenever I had the chance, because it would temporarily relieve the anxiety. My DS would live on bread if I let him, because carbs do the same thing for him (and sugar makes him fly around the room!).

 

I would have a talk with your DS about why he does it. Does he feel guilty about the lying and sneaking, but feel like he can't help himself? Or does he just feel you're being unreasonable in restricting his access to it? Maybe his behavior is just "typical kid stuff," but given the combination of a withdrawn personality (which you say is getting worse) plus behavior (including lying and hiding evidence) that, were it any other substance but sugar, would probably be considered addictive, I would take it quite seriously. I'd want to get to the bottom of it and change the behavior pattern ASAP, because although it might only be candy and cupcakes at 9, it could be worse things at 14, KWIM?

 

Jackie

[RanchGirl]

When I read "stealing" food, I thought you meant from a store or from someone else's house.

 

To me, food that I get at the store belongs to our family, so no one in our family could steal it.

 

Anything I buy is fair game unless I say something like, "Don't eat those dried apricots in the pantry. I got them to make granola."

 

:iagree:Also I wouldn't use food as a reward or punishment with behavior issues, that seems to be setting up control issues with food. If he's an early riser and is growing up and looking for more responsibility, maybe putting him in charge of planning and cooking breakfast for the family would help. Cinnamon toast, crock pot oatmeal, egg casserole bakes, etc. would all be pretty easy for him to make. If he has ownership over it, he might not want to ruin his appetite with junk. And what a bonus, you get a hot breakfast ready for you when you wake up -- that's a win win!

 

And as others have mentioned, if you don't have the junk in the house he won't be able to "steal" it.

[Aubrey]

I don't think that eliminating sugar and carbs will break the habit. I suspect it will, if anything, make sugar more desirable and cement the habit. He will view it as a punishment (and regardless of intention, it has that feel), and he will probably just try harder to just not get caught. I'm not sure that I've seen anything that screams addictive behavior here. I am just seeing nine year old kid-ness. It doesn't sound that pathological, and I don't want to see him developing feelings of shame around what he eats. I would just tell him, "You know, it's hard for moms and dads when their kids start to grow up. You are nine years old now, and you really are the only one who has control of your body. Too much sugar will make you feel icky, but you know that. We're going to try to offer you more food to eat in the morning. (precooked bacon or cheese or beans, etc)." And let it go at that.

 

Then, when he gorges and eats all the sugar in the house in a couple days, which he may well do, two things will happen. 1) He will realize that too much sugar makes you feel icky. And 2) There won't be any more sugar in the house.

 

I REALLY think that if you make a control issue out of it and start trying to limit what he eats/ doesn't eat at Sunday School or other social events, that it will set everyone in the family up for misery and him for bigger issues along the way. Plus, it just doesn't feel very respectful of him as a getting-older boy who needs to take more autonomy.

 

I wish dh weren't asleep yet--all of this expresses really well a major part of my concern. I know he & I both have a real tendency to over-control, & I know that can create problems. Knowing that doesn't help determine how far the other direction you need to go, though. Instead, we spend *hours* second-guessing ourselves.

 

I think at another time, it makes sense to talk about self regulation. Although, if he's eating a little bit of sugar each day (a cupcake, etc), when he's up by himself for two hours in the insanely early wee hours of the morning, he sounds like he has developed a little ritual, which is different from addiction. He's not eating every morsel of sugar in the house, which if it were a true sugar addiction, he might do. He's having *some.* He IS self-regulating, just with a self regulation of "more" than you generally approve of.

 

I'm not sure he's self-regulating. He eats as much as he can until someone gets up. Then he hides it. It's so frustrating, though, because there have been times when he's hidden/lied about stuff he *wouldn't* have gotten in trouble for. We've talked about trust & the relationship.

 

The thing that makes it seem more addictive is the hiding it, lying about it, climbing cabinets to find it (in the baking bin). Otoh, it could totally be 9yo boy-ness. It would be completely in my personality & dh's both to blow 9yo boy-ness completely & utterly out of proportion. Which is why I come here. :lol:

[Aubrey]

Is he an anxious or nervous kid? Easily upset or depressed? Could he be "self-medicating" with sugar?

 

Yes.

 

Maybe, as other posters have suggested, this is just a control issue, in that he wants to have more control over eating what he wants when he wants. But it might also be a control problem in the opposite way ~ that he *can't* control his behavior. He may have such a strong craving for sugar that he's having a hard time resisting it, even though he knows it's wrong and will get him in trouble.

 

This is the way he describes it.

 

My DS and I are both very sensitive to sugar; a candy bar or bowl of ice cream will give me a boost of adrenalin and feel-good chemicals ~ soon followed by a crash and craving for more sugar. I was a very anxious, over-sensitive kid (as is my DS), and I would binge on sugar whenever I had the chance, because it would temporarily relieve the anxiety. My DS would live on bread if I let him, because carbs do the same thing for him (and sugar makes him fly around the room!).

 

I would have a talk with your DS about why he does it. Does he feel guilty about the lying and sneaking, but feel like he can't help himself? Or does he just feel you're being unreasonable in restricting his access to it? Maybe his behavior is just "typical kid stuff," but given the combination of a withdrawn personality (which you say is getting worse) plus behavior (including lying and hiding evidence) that, were it any other substance but sugar, would probably be considered addictive, I would take it quite seriously. I'd want to get to the bottom of it and change the behavior pattern ASAP, because although it might only be candy and cupcakes at 9, it could be worse things at 14, KWIM?

 

Jackie

 

He says he feels bad about it...his sincerity is sometimes hard to read because his face & eyes can be so flat it makes you want to scream. Not always...just when he's getting in trouble. Like a defense mechanism, shutting himself off, passive aggressive. I don't know.

 

The last part is exactly my concern.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Aubrey

[DaffodilDreams]

I've only skimmed through the replies, but I didn't see any mention of a possibility of something being wrong with his body's "fullness indicator". You mention your ds sometimes eats 4 versions of one meal and is still hungry. Sometimes something can be wrong with the brain's ability to tell the body it no longer needs food. Could this be a possibility?

 

On the other hand, I also agree that if the child eats mostly carbs, of course he's going to feel hungry all the time. He does need protein and healthy fats to balance his blood sugar and help him feel satisfied.

 

My BIL was a food hider, though. Particularly sweets. Treats like that were mostly taboo in my IL's house, so the way my BIL got around that was to create his own stash upstairs in his closet. My dh and I found it when we were looking for some stuff dh had left in his old room/closet which was inherited by BIL. We never told him we found it.

[Aubrey]

I've only skimmed through the replies, but I didn't see any mention of a possibility of something being wrong with his body's "fullness indicator". You mention your ds sometimes eats 4 versions of one meal and is still hungry. Sometimes something can be wrong with the brain's ability to tell the body it no longer needs food. Could this be a possibility?

 

On the other hand, I also agree that if the child eats mostly carbs, of course he's going to feel hungry all the time. He does need protein and healthy fats to balance his blood sugar and help him feel satisfied.

 

My BIL was a food hider, though. Particularly sweets. Treats like that were mostly taboo in my IL's house, so the way my BIL got around that was to create his own stash upstairs in his closet. My dh and I found it when we were looking for some stuff dh had left in his old room/closet which was inherited by BIL. We never told him we found it.

 

Oh, the 4 versions of one meal was years ago--until he was 4 or 5. Since then, he's pretty much always eaten breakfast twice, but not necessarily in a significant way. If he has toast when he wakes up & eggs when I get up, we'd jokingly refer to that as 2 breakfasts now, but obviously it's not really.

 

Even when he was having breakfast 4x, it would be something like a cup of yogurt w/ mil, toast w/ dh, a small bowl of instant oatmeal w/ fil, & then whatever I fixed for him. Not actually a *lot* of food. It was just funny because for a while none of us knew that the others were feeding him. Come to think of it, he was actually being sneaky about breakfast then, too.

 

I love the idea of having proteins avail for him when he wakes up. I love the idea of letting him cook b'fast more. And I do know he's been having way too much carbs since I sprained my ankle. Dh really thinks toast is food. :lol:

 

I'm also planning to get up earlier, to take away some of the opportunity, but also...maybe he can get more comfortable w/ the oven while we have some one-on-one time. He's a tough kid to parent because his personality is like mine, but he's a boy. So sometimes I know I need to trust dh's boy-experience, but sometimes I think I've got a better idea of what he needs personality-wise. Sometimes we're both wrong. And I never know for sure which of those three options is right. :001_huh:

[HeidiKC]

I think restricting sweets inside or outside the home as the punishment is only going to make the problem worse. You have an issue with him hiding/sneaking something he doesn't have permission to eat, and lying. I think the punishment should be more related to the fact that he was dishonest, rather than ate sweets. I know you didn't want him eating sweets, but that isn't where your issue really lies so it doesn't seem best to focus on that as the punishment. I'd worry he'd get the message: you shouldn't eat sweets. Rather than: you shouldn't lie, sneak and hide stuff from parents.

 

I'd also worry that prohibiting foods (especially treats) could lead to addiction or other eating disorders. Rare in boys, but it happens.

 

Good luck - sounds like a tricky one. Also - what about providing dried fruit for him, since that is sweet, but still healthy?

[Aubrey]

I think restricting sweets inside or outside the home as the punishment is only going to make the problem worse. You have an issue with him hiding/sneaking something he doesn't have permission to eat, and lying. I think the punishment should be more related to the fact that he was dishonest, rather than ate sweets. I know you didn't want him eating sweets, but that isn't where your issue really lies so it doesn't seem best to focus on that as the punishment. I'd worry he'd get the message: you shouldn't eat sweets. Rather than: you shouldn't lie, sneak and hide stuff from parents.

 

I'd also worry that prohibiting foods (especially treats) could lead to addiction or other eating disorders. Rare in boys, but it happens.

 

Good luck - sounds like a tricky one. Also - what about providing dried fruit for him, since that is sweet, but still healthy?

 

I never really answered the pp who asked how we handle lying. For that aspect of this issue, we're trying to beef up the time we spend w/ him. Dh spent the weekend helping him build a bird feeder. Sometimes he gets extra chores, but I try to use that time to have nice long talks, which...he usually loves, as long as he can talk about all the things he wonders about & wants to invent instead of me chewing him out. I think today I might have been chewing him out more than I meant to. :blush: Perhaps trying to horrify him w/ details of diabetes. Sometimes I"m afraid I parent like a fascist dictator. ;)

[sbgrace]

 

Unlimited access & easy options for protein--when I think protein, the only thing I come up w/ is meat & eggs. So you're suggesting precooked eggs/meat that he can eat whenever? That sounds fine to me. I have noticed that he does a lot better when I remember to feed him protein in the mornings. It's easy to forget when things get crazy, though.

 

 

When I think nutrient dense protein foods I think guacamole and cheese with crackers, granola and yogurt, peanut butter and jelly sandwich with milk, other full fat dairy, etc. I'd try more for balance of fat/carbs/protein. Eggs/meat are pretty much protein and some fat and I personally wouldn't want that as my always available option. Kids need carbs for energy. I like the idea of choices/basket for him. That gives him some control.

Edited May 17, 2010 by sbgrace

[Corraleno]

I love the idea of having proteins avail for him when he wakes up. I love the idea of letting him cook b'fast more. And I do know he's been having way too much carbs since I sprained my ankle. Dh really thinks toast is food. :lol:

I'm also planning to get up earlier, to take away some of the opportunity, but also...maybe he can get more comfortable w/ the oven while we have some one-on-one time.

You might consider making a big batch of some kind of muffin that would be slightly sweet but also very filling and high in protein. Use whole wheat pastry flour and add extra eggs, powdered milk, wheat germ, and just a little agave or fruit puree for sweetness. Add chopped dried fruit and nuts, if he'll eat them, and use coconut oil instead of butter or shortening. Keep them in the freezer so if he wakes up early he can just heat one up in the microwave and have something that tastes little sweet, but has enough complex carbs, protein, and fat to prevent a sugar spike.

 

IMHO, the best way to "wean" him off sugar is to have one or two foods around the house that he can have when he wants (no need to steal or hide or lie), that are slightly sweet but don't cause a blood sugar spike: muffins, home-made granola bars, fruit & yogurt smoothies, etc. Totally eliminating sweets from the house will just make them more desirable, and punishing him or adding to his guilt over not being able to control his sugar bingeing will just make things worse.

 

Does he take any supplements (fish oil, Vit D, CoQ10, etc.)?

 

Jackie

Edited May 17, 2010 by Corraleno
typo

[dansamy]

If he's a sugar addict, allowing him to have sugar will only cement that addiction and make it harder for him to maintain a normal weight as an adult. I'd make the whole house as sugar-free as possible.

 

The body has no physiological need for sugar. The body does require fats and proteins to make the essential building blocks of our cells and to perform cellular functions. The glucose your brain needs for fuel can be manufactured in the body by the process of gluconeogenesis. Your brain's energy requirements are far lower than the amount of sugar found in the normal American diet. The average "low-carb" diet still contains enough carbohydrate to fuel the brain. None of the popular low-carb diets endorses a NO carb approach. Simply want to head off people who will wail loudly and defend sugar. All sugars are non-nutritive. Being sugar-free isn't detrimental to anyone's health.

 

Maybe try a "no processed foods" approach in your home? That will keep him away from the highly processed, simple carb foods that cause the blood sugar to spike rapidly, which in turn causes the pancreas to dump insulin into the bloodstream and send the BG plummeting, which makes the person crave more sugary stuff. Awful rollercoaster to be on.

 

Anyway, all that long stuff is to simply say he sounds like a sugar addict to me. My sister would literally eat sugar by the spoon when she was younger. She still bakes sweet things and makes candy to this day.

 

I would make changes for the whole house. Not punitive changes. Just "we need to eat foods that are better for us" changes. Make one change a week to make it easier.

 

If it helps you to know, my ds9 would sneak food too. He told me that it is because he wakes up starving hungry. I keep things that he is allowed to eat in the morning before other people get up. Then, he will still eat a whole "real" breakfast with the family.

Edited May 17, 2010 by dansamy

[Aubrey]

You might consider making a big batch of some kind of muffin that would be slightly sweet but also very filling and high in protein. Use whole wheat pastry flour and add extra eggs, powdered milk, wheat germ, and just a little agave or fruit puree for sweetness. Add chopped dried fruit and nuts, if he'll eat them, and use coconut oil instead of butter or shortening. Keep them in the freezer so if he wakes up early he can just heat one up in the microwave and have something that tastes little sweet, but has enough complex carbs, protein, and fat to prevent a sugar spike.

 

IMHO, the best way to "wean" him off sugar is to have one or two foods around the house that he can have when he wants (no need to steal or hide or lie), that are slightly sweet but don't cause a blood sugar spike: muffins, home-made granola bars, fruit & yogurt smoothies, etc. Totally eliminating sweets from the house will just make them more desirable, and punishing him or adding to his guilt over not being able to control his sugar bingeing will just make things worse.

 

Does he take any supplements (fish oil, Vit D, CoQ10, etc.)?

 

Jackie

 

At this point, I really think if I made muffins, he'd eat them all, but that's still a good idea.

 

No, he doesn't take any supplements, but I have been thinking he must need something. Not because of the food, but...he's got a look about him lately that seems like it needs sunshine & vitamins. The weather here has been NUTS, & everybody's allergies are haywire, so I know that's part of it.

[Aubrey]

If he's a sugar addict, allowing him to have sugar will only cement that addiction and make it harder for him to maintain a normal weight as an adult. I'd make the whole house as sugar-free as possible.

 

The body has no physiological need for sugar. The body does require fats and proteins to make the essential building blocks of our cells and to perform cellular functions. The glucose your brain needs for fuel can be manufactured in the body by the process of gluconeogenesis. Your brain's energy requirements are far lower than the amount of sugar found in the normal American diet. The average "low-carb" diet still contains enough carbohydrate to fuel the brain. None of the popular low-carb diets endorses a NO carb approach. Simply want to head off people who will wail loudly and defend sugar. All sugars are non-nutritive. Being sugar-free isn't detrimental to anyone's health.

 

Maybe try a "no processed foods" approach in your home? That will keep him away from the highly processed, simple carb foods that cause the blood sugar to spike rapidly, which in turn causes the pancreas to dump insulin into the bloodstream and send the BG plummeting, which makes the person crave more sugary stuff. Awful rollercoaster to be on.

 

Anyway, all that long stuff is to simply say he sounds like a sugar addict to me. My sister would literally eat sugar by the spoon when she was younger. She still bakes sweet things and makes candy to this day.

 

I would make changes for the whole house. Not punitive changes. Just "we need to eat foods that are better for us" changes. Make one change a week to make it easier.

 

If it helps you to know, my ds9 would sneak food too. He told me that it is because he wakes up starving hungry. I keep things that he is allowed to eat in the morning before other people get up. Then, he will still eat a whole "real" breakfast with the family.

 

We were planning a yeast-free diet because we're thinking sugar addict, too. We've been eating pretty well until I sprained my ankle. Since then, dh has been in charge of the kitchen. One night, I just sat at the table after everyone else was in bed & cried. :lol: Um...I guess you can tell he doesn't do things the way I do.

 

Anyway, it's been 3 wks, & I've been off crutches for a week. We spent last week excavating the house (& that included me calling dh in tears--again--telling him we're raising the Sanfords). This week, I think I'll be cooking again. Because...we've had frozen pizza & fried chicken more than once in the past week. Anybody who reads my posts knows I have low-ish food standards, but fried chicken is so far beneath even what I consider food that I'd feel guilty to feed it to a stray cat.

 

Sorry. It's late, & my posts are getting really random. :D

[Corraleno]

At this point, I really think if I made muffins, he'd eat them all, but that's still a good idea.

That's why you keep them in the freezer :D

Harder to sneak them when they're frozen solid and have to be "nuked" first to defrost them. And if they're really dense and chewy and high in protein, it will take a while to eat one, and make him feel really full, so it may help break the cycle of "inhaling" as many sweets as possible, as quickly as possible, before someone sees him.

 

Whereas with peanutbutter cups you can eat a whole bag in a very short time before you even realize how many you actually ate. Not that I would know or anything. :tongue_smilie:

 

Jackie

[Aubrey]

That's why you keep them in the freezer :D

Harder to sneak them when they're frozen solid and have to be "nuked" first to defrost them. And if they're really dense and chewy and high in protein, it will take a while to eat one, and make him feel really full, so it may help break the cycle of "inhaling" as many sweets as possible, as quickly as possible, before someone sees him.

 

Whereas with peanutbutter cups you can eat a whole bag in a very short time before you even realize how many you actually ate. Not that I would know or anything. :tongue_smilie:

 

Jackie

 

Freezer doesn't stop him, mic would barely slow him down, BUT I see what you mean about the density thing. That's BRILLIANT.

 

I'm going to bed now, but I may print this thread so dh can read it tomorrow morning & we can discuss over the phone when he's done.

 

I know I make some of y'all nuts w/ my approach to parenting, but I love the...oh, what word...all the different kinds of colors, iykwim...of your replies. They help me to...give voice to some of the conflicting concerns I'm feeling. Plus, a theme develops & besides the coolness of that, it helps me to see the big issues & separate them from the smaller ones & *hopefully* make better choices in the long run.

 

Just somebody reassure me that oldest kids survive the trial run of parenting ok. :001_huh:

[dansamy]

I'm a first-born and I'm ok! (Never mind those voices in my head..... :p j/k!)

[Carrie12345]

We have a similar situation in our home, and it's complicated by the fact that it's BOTH of our dds, they share a room, and you can never be certain which dd (if not both) is guilty.

 

In our case, it's almost never about hunger. Our house is stocked with fruit, ww bagels/bread and various spreads, oatmeal, yogurt, and cereals... all things they love. There are usually multiple lunch options (though they like to stick with pb&j), and I can't remember the last time I made a dinner that was on anyone's "don't like" list. I approve of snacking, and I usually have yummy, nutritious snacks on hand, with the occasional junky treat thrown in.

 

I limit junk, but that doesn't mean I deny sweets. I put tons of sugar in my granola, there's always holiday candy around, and dh likes to buy nasty empty calories in colorful boxes (junk cereal!). I try to keep all that to a minimum, but my kids are definitely not DENIED in a way that would make them seek out some forbidden treat.

 

Still, they'll empty an entire box of junk cereal if I'm not in the room. They'll take multiple containers of yogurt into their bedroom and slurp it down. Baking supplies, a bag of frozen fruit, leftover birthday cake, a jar of peanut butter, a bowl of candy, a hunk of corn bread, a bunch of bananas, a block of cheese... It doesn't even have to be *junk* (though they'd prefer it!)

 

I don't have the answer. I feed them well, often, and plentifully. They are nowhere near overweight. The only time I "withhold" food is within about a half hour of a meal.

 

The only thing I've been able to come up with is the idea that maybe they want to make sure their siblings don't finish something off, leaving them with none... which has never happened as far as I know, and doesn't really explain the peanut butter thing... but it *could* make some sense.

 

Our extended familys' love language is food. I sometimes wonder if that's contributing, but our contact with any relatives tends to be bi-monthly or so.

 

The sneaking and the mess are the real problems for me. We've punished. We've encouraged. We've ignored. We've tried to watch like hawks. We've *considered getting locks. It hasn't stopped. Sometimes it slows down in frequency or quantity, but it's a constant battle.

 

All that to let you know that it isn't all that unusual, and you're not alone. If we ever find a solution, I'll imediately let you know!!!

[Osmosis Mom]

OK, I haven't read the whole thread, but goodness, if the kid is hungry or craves sweets, bring it on. Why would he feel like he needs to lie? And why is he not supposed to get out the cereal and make his own breakfast when he wakes up? Seriously, is your kitchen locked with only access being through you? Of course he is going to "steal" and then cover up if so.

 

Whatever your concerns are with sugar, the issue seems to me to be that he wants something (possibly from being hungry or a craving). It won't kill you if he gets it so back off on your principles and your own expectations a bit.

 

I feel so bad for the kid who wakes up and has to wait 2-4 HOURS ro get food? I'd go crazy. I eat almost always immediately when I wake up. While I cherish family meals, then I am an early waker and need to get my day going. All my kids know that they can just help themselves to breakfast (although if they awake too late I might not let them have breakfast, but that's a different kind of issue plus we eat lunch at noon or earlier).

 

I don't mean to sound harsh, I really don't, but you don't want to raise kids who crave food or feel they are not getting enough. You said he is small for his age, perhaps he needs a lot more calories than what he is getting, oftener meals and snacks etc. I was really surprised that after you made the discovery then you are still focused on keeping a cupcake away from him at church etc. You are putting way too much emphasis on food. How can one cupcake ruin yours or his health?? The lack of one might in the long run add up, though, to serious health and emotional issues....

[Lolly]

It won't be sneaking and stealing if he has permission to do it. :D I refuse to make food an issue in our house. If the kids are hungry, they are allowed to get what they wish. My rule is that they must clean up after themselves. I'd be teaching that boy to cook!

 

Of course, I'm really wondering about the people on this board after reading all those menus for a day. It takes WAY more than that to fill my kids up. They would starve on what was mentioned as a day's worth of food. No, seriously starve. Btw, 9 yo boys are usually bulking up for a grow. They tend to eat a lot. They tend to get a little belly fat. Then, they stretch it out.

[In The Great White North]

If he's an early riser and is growing up and looking for more responsibility, maybe putting him in charge of planning and cooking breakfast for the family would help. Cinnamon toast, crock pot oatmeal, egg casserole bakes, etc. would all be pretty easy for him to make. If he has ownership over it, he might not want to ruin his appetite with junk. And what a bonus, you get a hot breakfast ready for you when you wake up -- that's a win win!

This is an awesome idea. So is the higher protein muffin idea. I usually put whey protein in the scones for breakfast, just to up the protein. It doesn't change the flavor at all.

 

 

I feel so bad for the kid who wakes up and has to wait 2-4 HOURS ro get food? I'd go crazy.

You said he is small for his age, perhaps he needs a lot more calories than what he is getting, oftener meals and snacks etc.

:iagree: Breakfast is the most important meal of the day. If he's waiting 2-4 hours for it, it becomes lunch and he has effectively skipped breakfast. If he's small and skinny for his age, he may not be getting enough to eat. Their appetite really takes off with each growth spurt.

 

 

I'd probably also have him clean the crumbs, etc out of the couch (and wherever else he stashes it) - on the "you made the mess, you clean it up" principle - and try to get him to eat his breakfast at the kitchen table. You don't want mice, and I bet he doesn't either.

[Lolly]

This is an awesome idea. So is the higher protein muffin idea. I usually put whey protein in the scones for breakfast, just to up the protein. It doesn't change the flavor at all.

 

 

:iagree: Breakfast is the most important meal of the day. If he's waiting 2-4 hours for it, it becomes lunch and he has effectively skipped breakfast. If he's small and skinny for his age, he may not be getting enough to eat. Their appetite really takes off with each growth spurt.

 

 

I'd probably also have him clean the crumbs, etc out of the couch (and wherever else he stashes it) - on the "you made the mess, you clean it up" principle - and try to get him to eat his breakfast at the kitchen table. You don't want mice, and I bet he doesn't either.

:lol::lol::lol:

Or, he might! I have a homeschooling friend whose dd now has a pet mouse. A teeny, tiny baby one got stuck in the dog food dish!!!:lol::lol::lol:

[ChristusG]

I'd be very upset about the sneaking and lying. As long as nothing is physically wrong as far as why he wants to eat a lot, then my child would be in very big trouble for the sneaking and lying. Those are trust breakers and it is hard to earn trust back. My kids (well, my 6 year old) knows that I do not allow them to have very much "junk" food. I just do not keep it in the house. But if I caught her sneaking it and lying to me about it, then yes, I'd eliminate all treats for a while. Seems like the logical consequence. We usually allow our entire family to pick a weekly treat and eat it on the weekend. She would just have to deal with seeing everyone else eat theirs. And I'd absolutely have my child to go a birthday party and tell them they were not allowed to have a cupcake there. Around our house, lying and sneaking are serious offenses. Trust is important. Of course, all of this is as long as you feel there is no physical reason that he's wanting the food (albeit, poor food choices are being made...but that's normal for a child). If it's just a kid craving sugar and junk (as I know my 6 year old does), it would not be acceptable.

[Danestress]

You are not going to be able to totally keep your child from eating sugar for the next 10 years without being a micromanager. I don't see why you would want to. And keeping him from eating them for the next few weeks seems to have little merit to me because he's not buying into the idea of breaking the sugar addiction. He's going to eat sweets the next opportunity he gets, whenever that is, and the effort of not allowing sweets for a certain number of weeks will be wasted. He will have many many more years to be an adult than to be a child, and so I think you have to think longer term with this child and help him develop reasonable lifelong habits.

 

I might actually want to speak to a doctor about this, because it would concern me that the craving is so strong right when he wakes up. I wonder if it's a blood sugar thing? I'd just want to check that out. But if I were satisfied that this is just about personal preferences, I would start working on helping him have a more balanced attitude toward food. I personally would get rid of most of the sweets in the house and then let him eat what he wants for breakfast, amongst reasonable choices. I do keep sweet cereal if it is otherwise redeeming - for example, frosted shredded wheat is sugary, but also high in fiber. I make whole grain pancakes all the time, and they put syrup on them. It's just a matter of balance to me, and I would want to teach that balance to my children. I might consider having some slightly sweet things that I know he will gravitate towards that are actually high in protein and fiber - maybe have some really super healthy muffins ready with just a drizzle of sugar glaze. He will want to eat that right off, it will have just a bit of sugar, and he will be eating the kind of protein and good carbs that will satisfy him.

[at the beach]

Well, in our house there would never be any sneaking or lying about food. If it is in the house, they can eat it. As for how I would deal with sneaking and lying with regard to your son is this: I would apologize to him for making him feel like he has to lie and sneak about food. I would explain to him that he should not have been made to feel as though he had to sneak food and that you are the ones in the wrong, not him. I would then give him permission to eat whatever is in the house. I would also give him permission to make things for himself. When he is away from home with grandparents or at church, unless it is a serious health matter (and no, I would not consider a potential "sugar addiction" to qualify in that regard) I would allow him to have whatever he wants.

 

ETA: I am in no way saying or suggesting you aren't a great mom! I just think that in my house the above approach would be the fastest way to make it a non-issue and is how I think would be best way to deal with it. YMMV.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Violet

[JFSinIL]

I would keep all baking stuff, sugar, etc. in MY locked bedroom or closet. Step one - remove temptation. Step two - have a doctor check the kid out to see if there is a physical reason for the craving. Step three - have a bagel with peanut butter or something out and make sure he knows if he is up before everyone else he may eat THAT and a glass of milk/juice and nothing else.

Edited May 17, 2010 by JFSinIL