DD started out very bright and it is gone... vaccines?

[Lovedtodeath]

DD started out a genious. Really. She was reading phonetically at 3. She was really doing first grade math at 4. She can't seem to understand anything ever since turning 5 and has made very little progress from that point. I know that part of it is that I went through a rough pregnancy and my health (emotional and physical) deteriorated during pregnancy and has only returned for short spurts, and is just now showing real signs of improvement. Could that be it? I am also wondering (it just occurred to me) if it might have anything to do with Kindergarten vaccines. :scared:

 

ETA: She will be 8 this summer! LOL I assumed her age was in my sig.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[forty-two]

How's she doing on non-formal-academic stuff? Does she seem more or less like her pre-vaccine self? Or is there a dramatic change there, too? Did this come on rather suddenly, matching the time of the vaccines? Or does it better match the time frame of your health issues?

 

Personally, I'm inclined to attribute it to the pg/health issues without very, very strong proof otherwise. My dd's small quirks turned into full-blown issues when we moved, just because of the stress of the changes. Once we settled back down into a new place, new routine, her issues have settled back down into quirks again - and actually have improved somewhat.

[hornblower]

Have a read through this:

 

The Myth of Prodigy and Why it Matters

 

http://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/getarticle.cfm?id=2026

 

 

“I think we take it as an article of faith in our society that great ability in any given field is invariably manifested early on, that to be precocious at something is important because it’s a predictor of future success,†Gladwell said. “But is that really true? And what is the evidence for it? And what exactly is the meaning and value of mastering a particular skill very early on in your life?â€

 

 

....

 

 

Precociousness is a slipperier subject than we ordinarily think, Gladwell said. And the benefits of earlier mastery are overstated. “There are surprising numbers of people who either start good and go bad or start bad and end up good."

 

 

 

These are comments by Malcolm Gladwell, author of Blink & Tippping Point, btw.

 

I'd encourage you really hard to not think of her as 'no longer bright'.

[Nestof3]

I guess I'm thinking that it's normal to be able to do something earlier than usual but not always do things earlier than usual. I'm inclined to think it's more of a leveling off sort of thing. But, I'm no expert.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I guess I'm thinking that it's normal to be able to do something earlier than usual but not always do things earlier than usual. I'm inclined to think it's more of a leveling off sort of thing. But, I'm no expert.

It isn't just that... it is hard for her now.

[JudoMom]

It isn't just that... it is hard for her now.

 

Is reading the books/doing the math that she was reading/doing at 3 or 4 or 5 hard for her now? Or is she just not progressing at the same rate?

[happyWImom]

Oh, Carmen!:grouphug:

 

I can imagine how worrisome it must be. Have you talked to her ped. about it? I know the whole vaccine thing is a worry, but I was under the impression it was the eary vaccines that were a problem. Not that I'm an expert, but we did a lot of reading up on them when dc were very small.

 

Take a breath, and relax. Other than the school type learning, how is she? What about her personality? Is that different? I know it's hard, but try not to panic (easy to say-I'm a panicker myself).

[Orthodox6]

There is such a thing as obstinacy. Perhaps the child is signalling that she, herself, wants to lighten up.

 

Gently now from me . . . Reading at age 3 does not denote "genius." Sometimes -- and of course I hope this is not the case for your dd ! -- it denotes the emergence of Asperger's. . . . Sometimes it denotes nothing other than an early reader.

[G5052]

Young children don't process a parents' health problems necessarily the way we'd think, and yes, a difficult pregnancy and the birth of sibling can result in academic set-backs in a young child. They can't necessarily express what they're feeling or process it. The good news is that this is "real life" and they should catch up and adapt over time.

 

I've also noticed that academics don't "stick" in a young child unless you keep at it, so if there was a significant break, it's entirely expected that what was learned was forgotten in most cases.

[Dandelion]

One thought that comes to mind is the phenomenon of kids temporarily "losing" one skill as they master others. So perhaps her ability to quickly grasp and master academics is temporarily on hold while her body and mind focus on learning/mastery in other areas (maybe physical skills at this age)?

 

Just based on what you've described, I wouldn't lock in to vaccines as the cause (or anything for that matter). Seems like there are many other possible causes to explore and rule out first.

 

I'm sure this is frustrating for you (and possibly for her) since it sounds like things used to come so easily for her. :grouphug:

[DianeW88]

The vaccines that were in question regarding autistic behavior were the ones given between 15-18 months. If those did not affect her at that time or shortly there after, I would not look to vaccines as the cause.

 

Diane W.

 

married for 22 years

homeschooling 3 kiddos for 16 years

[Barb_]

I also vote for environment. One of my kids was speaking well before she turned a year and singing real songs (twinkle, twinkle and eensie weensie spider, etc) at 14 months. I remember because it was Christmas week and we had people over who were astonished. She hit all of her milestones months before average. But she liked being the baby. Unfortunately for her desire to remain a baby, she went on to have two more younger siblings and has never really gotten over her loss in status. For years now, she hasn't lived up to her early promise, not like I imagined she would. I think it has a lot to do with her subconscious desire to keep herself younger than she is.

 

Barb

[hornblower]

It isn't just that... it is hard for her now.

 

You know, I have been there & I'm not sure what the right way of handling it is, because I don't think I did it right.

 

I don't really want to disclose which kid it is so forgive the tortured sentence structure.

 

In our case, one kid was quite a natural in one of the 3R's (& very very behind in the others) in the early years. THEN, things got hard across the board, including in the previously 'easy' subject.

 

I've ended up with a kid who assumes that it shouldn't be hard to learn the easy subject. If it's hard, it means s/he is stupid & beat her/himself up for it.

 

Kid quits, gives up, won't work hard when things get hard. If I attempt to look back at things & say 'look, this was hard & then you got it after a lot of work', I get back 'THAT?? That's easy. THAT's nothing like THIS'

 

It's like this kid expects knowledge and learning to somehow appear in his/her brain with no effort. :confused:

 

Hello, I'm hornblower, & I've messed up my kid.

 

I don't know what I could have done to prevent it or what I could do now.

 

sorry, no help :) just a more btdt.....actually still there, still pulling hair out.....

[angela in ohio]

It isn't just that... it is hard for her now.

 

Is what you would expect her to be progressing to hard, or is what the average 5 yo would do hard (for exmaple, is second grade math hard, or is kindergarten math hard)? You may have unrealistic expectations based on her having been an early starter. I would google for 5 yo milestones and make sure that she is meeting those.

[Lovedtodeath]

You know, I have been there & I'm not sure what the right way of handling it is, because I don't think I did it right.

 

I don't really want to disclose which kid it is so forgive the tortured sentence structure.

 

In our case, one kid was quite a natural in one of the 3R's (& very very behind in the others) in the early years. THEN, things got hard across the board, including in the previously 'easy' subject.

 

I've ended up with a kid who assumes that it shouldn't be hard to learn the easy subject. If it's hard, it means s/he is stupid & beat her/himself up for it.

 

Kid quits, gives up, won't work hard when things get hard.

I have wondered if it is this. It used to be so easy. She seems to balk when work or thinking is required at all.

[Teachin'Mine]

One thought that comes to mind is the phenomenon of kids temporarily "losing" one skill as they master others. So perhaps her ability to quickly grasp and master academics is temporarily on hold while her body and mind focus on learning/mastery in other areas (maybe physical skills at this age)?

 

Just based on what you've described, I wouldn't lock in to vaccines as the cause (or anything for that matter). Seems like there are many other possible causes to explore and rule out first.

 

I'm sure this is frustrating for you (and possibly for her) since it sounds like things used to come so easily for her. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: I'm remembering back, and the young years seemed to have been broken into so many smaller segments of learning. When she'd be interested in one thing, other things seemed to have been "lost". They weren't actually lost, it just wasn't her focus and anything new was all encompassing for her. She would pick something new that she wanted to learn, and would just persist until she mastered it. Once mastered, she'd drop it completely. Maybe your daughter is the same.

 

I also think that with you having been ill that maybe less time was spent together with "academics" and it's just a matter of spending some more time together now. Enjoy her young years no matter what she's doing academically - they go by so quickly. :)

[....]

Wow...slow down.

 

Are there specific behaviors you are worried about? Could you speak with your pediatrician about any changes in behavior?

 

Your daughter is very, very young. My 5 year-old has more in common with our 2 year-old than she does with her 7 yro brother. They also go through some really strange phases throughout early childhood.

 

Small children also "change their behavior" when they are getting ready to master a new, important developmental skill.

[MelanieM]

I am not an expert on vaccines or health and nutrition by any stretch, but it is my understanding that the toxic load in the body (which can be increased by vaccines) can cause an inability to absorb nutrients, which can show up in all manner of ways, including issues with learning new information or coping in general. If your gut instinct is telling you that there's something going on here, then I would listen and seek out some advice from someone who knows more about these types of things. (A word of assurance that you *can* recover from vaccine damage, if that is indeed an issue at play here.)

 

If you're interested, I can recommend two wonderful homeopaths that work with clients via telephone and/or email. Elisabeth Taylor is someone I turn to whenever I have any sort of question about health or wellness -- she's absolutely amazing and I can't recommend her highly enough. Natalia Tegler is a compassionate, brilliant woman who specializes in working with families with atypical children. If you have questions about either of these women or their styles please feel free to PM me and I'd be elaborate on my personal testimonials.

Edited May 11, 2010 by MelanieM

[Lovedtodeath]

Is what you would expect her to be progressing to hard, or is what the average 5 yo would do hard (for exmaple, is second grade math hard, or is kindergarten math hard)? You may have unrealistic expectations based on her having been an early starter. I would google for 5 yo milestones and make sure that she is meeting those.

If she stayed at her original rate of progress she would be entering the 4th grade. Is she was at the normal rate for her age she would be entering 3rd grade. As it is she is just beginning 2nd grade math and it is very hard. As we are going into the next level of spelling she is taking way too long to do her work and crying in frustration that it is too hard. When I ask her to read out loud she is "too embarrassed" to do so. Her reading level has gone up, at least, and she does well when we do la samples that don't involve phonics.

 

My daughter will be turning 8 this summer. I just realized that her age is no longer in my sig. I do wonder how well she would be doing if I didn't require so much... you know a math program that is easier and does not require true understanding, or la based on sight words... I wonder if I followed the PS curriculum if she would be doing fine, or even still seem advanced.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[Alenee]

One thought that comes to mind is the phenomenon of kids temporarily "losing" one skill as they master others. So perhaps her ability to quickly grasp and master academics is temporarily on hold while her body and mind focus on learning/mastery in other areas (maybe physical skills at this age)?

 

Just based on what you've described, I wouldn't lock in to vaccines as the cause (or anything for that matter). Seems like there are many other possible causes to explore and rule out first.

 

I'm sure this is frustrating for you (and possibly for her) since it sounds like things used to come so easily for her. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: I'm also wondering if it's a vision issue. Have you had her eyes checked? My dd started doing this and sure enough, her vision had changed drastically. Not only does she need glasses, but she also needs a bit of vision therapy. Behavior as you describe is typical of a child who can't see well. Not that this is always the case, but that the behavior is very similar.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Carmen, I would suspect that she saw the early learning she did as part of play. Now that she's a big girl, school can start to become a chore. Perhaps backing off and doing the same concepts / skills in math and LA but as part of games might bring back her spark.

[Pippen]

Has she changed in other areas, such as socially or shifts in interests during that period? Sometimes kids who are very focused/advanced on academic type interests at very young ages will seem to regress when they make leaps socially or when their interests turn to more typical kid stuff. It wouldn't be uncommon for such a child to forget things that they once knew (such as spelling a difficult word or facts they'd memorized) and trade it off for interest in regular kid's toys or wanting to spend time with friends. It's not unusual for early readers (or kids with Hyperlexia).

 

It honestly can be a good thing for a child who is obsessive, hyperfocused, isn't getting along well in the social realm, because it leads to more balance in their lives, but it's alarming to watch as a parent.

 

Not sure if this is your daughter's situation, but thought I'd toss it out there.

[calandalsmom]

I'm dead sure it has nothing to do with vaccines and seriously doubt your child started as a genius. Many well loved children are precocious because of the time and effort we put into them. But studies show most of the early reading advantage is gone by grade three.

 

Your child is still bright and receptive and engaged in what she wishes to learn, Im sure. But something may have negatively impacted her ability to self motivate. Typically too many external rewards are responsible for declining motivation. Also, he interests may not be what you'd wish, but that doesnt mean she doesn't have interests or crave learning.

 

Sounds like you need to a) adjust your expectations b) adjust your attitude about your dd's academic life and c) see what she is really interested in and assess her development in a different way than comparing her with peers.

[Lovedtodeath]

How's she doing on non-formal-academic stuff? Does she seem more or less like her pre-vaccine self? Or is there a dramatic change there, too? Did this come on rather suddenly, matching the time of the vaccines? Or does it better match the time frame of your health issues?

 

Personally, I'm inclined to attribute it to the pg/health issues without very, very strong proof otherwise. My dd's small quirks turned into full-blown issues when we moved, just because of the stress of the changes. Once we settled back down into a new place, new routine, her issues have settled back down into quirks again - and actually have improved somewhat.

We have been dealing with anxiety issues and behavioral problems, and they are improving. So maybe she has just been working on that.

[....]

If she stayed at her original rate of progress she would be entering the 4th grade. Is she was at the normal rate for her age she would be entering 3rd grade. As it is she is just beginning 2nd grade math and it is very hard. As we are going into the next level of spelling she is taking way too long to do her work and crying in frustration that it is too hard. When I ask her to read out loud she is "too embarrassed" to do so. Her reading level has gone up, at least, and she does well when we do la samples that don't involve phonics.

 

My daughter will be turning 8 this summer. I just realized that her age is no longer in my sig. I do wonder how well she would be doing if I didn't require so much... you know a math program that is easier and does not require true understanding, or la based on sight words... I wonder if I followed the PS curriculum if she would be doing fine, or even still seem advanced.

 

This doesn't seem enough to be too worried. Are there behavior changes besides schoolwork?

 

Does she seem happy? Is this a burnout thing? A gifted thing?

 

Does your daughter need a big change in curriculum approach?

 

I also have a gifted 8 yro and she can do some really bizarre things also. She's not very good in math, either (my son is catching up to her in math). She can be very moody and just needs a big break sometimes. She read the entire Commander Toad series (written at like a 1st grade level) this week for school. I think she needs to take it easy sometimes. I wish those kinds of kids came with a darn user's manual. Mine has repetition issues sometimes and I've caught her copying encyclopedia entries onto paper. She also makes weird barking noises when something starts bothering her (yeah, I know...).

 

Do any of these things describe your daughter? :confused:

[Desert Rat]

Kids who start our ahead, in my experiences with my own, sometimes hit a wall or backslide a bit from time to time. You mentioned that you have had a rough couple of years. This probably has a lot to do with it. With my 10yo I noticed that I was, indeed, pushing him too hard. He was doing 4 grade work in kindy so I expected him to be a 4th grader. After I reevaluated MY issues, he improved. In our case, it meant letting him do the 4th grade math but allowing him to dictate his answers. Before, I was expecting him to write all that. (Geesh! What was I thinking?!) We still have some fallout from that 3-4 months where my expectations were unrealistic. We do much better now.

[hornblower]

She also makes weird barking noises when something starts bothering her (yeah, I know...).

 

Do any of these things describe your daughter? :confused:

 

Ummmmm, what about a barky noise accompanied by a repetitive motion like a sort of sideways skipping for a few paces & then back again? What is that?

[MelanieM]

Ummmmm, what about a barky noise accompanied by a repetitive motion like a sort of sideways skipping for a few paces & then back again? What is that?

 

This sounds like the type of thing my neighbour's son does. He has Tourette Syndrome, the symptoms of which apparently started showing up when he was around 8 yrs old.

[Perry]

Ummmmm, what about a barky noise accompanied by a repetitive motion like a sort of sideways skipping for a few paces & then back again? What is that?

Kids with Tourette's syndrome have symptoms like these.

[Dobela]

:iagree: I'm also wondering if it's a vision issue. Have you had her eyes checked? My dd started doing this and sure enough, her vision had changed drastically. Not only does she need glasses, but she also needs a bit of vision therapy. Behavior as you describe is typical of a child who can't see well. Not that this is always the case, but that the behavior is very similar.

I also wondered about vision. once the lessons became hard enough that my son couldn't give me the answer with simple mental thought, he began exhibiting behavior problems to hide that he couldn't see. Well, actually he didn't realize it was his vision. He had serious tracking problems, depth problems, and such. The higher the grade level the more that is on a page, and the more on the page the harder it was to see it and discern well. If he did manage to 'see' it well, he was so fatigued by the end of short lessons that we lost a lot of ground. If you visit covd.org, look at their page with signs and symptoms of vision problems. Vision problems manifest in several ways.

 

I would begin with having her vision checked. Then, if that is ok, you can start looking at other issues, like possible learning disabilities that also can begin showing up at around her age when curriculums start moving faster.

 

:grouphug:

[sbgrace]

In my experience with my son when kids regress (mine did between 18 months and 2 years without vaccines) they regress in multiple areas. It's not just that learning gets harder or doesn't proceed at the same rate.

 

Lots of regression (including that triggered by vaccines) is actually metabolic in nature. But you'd see physical changes too--especially increased fatigue.

 

I would wonder about a learning disability. The things she was doing at the younger ages required a different type of thinking and were less complex than what she's doing now. Things have bumped up (I believe third grade is commonly when this happens) and she's struggling. I'm wondering, since you mentioned phonics, if dyslexia might be an issue? It affects math as well. Outside of that there are so many learning disorders that could cause the difficulty you're seeing.

[simka2]

One thought that comes to mind is the phenomenon of kids temporarily "losing" one skill as they master others. So perhaps her ability to quickly grasp and master academics is temporarily on hold while her body and mind focus on learning/mastery in other areas (maybe physical skills at this age)?

 

Just based on what you've described, I wouldn't lock in to vaccines as the cause (or anything for that matter). Seems like there are many other possible causes to explore and rule out first.

 

I'm sure this is frustrating for you (and possibly for her) since it sounds like things used to come so easily for her. :grouphug:

 

:iagree:I can not tell you the times...my kids temporarily dropped a skill to learn something else. It also, seemed like they would drop an academic skill to pick up a social one. These are strictly my personal thoughts. If you are really worried talk to your ped. :)

[Heather in WI]

The Myth of Prodigy and Why it Matters

http://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/getarticle.cfm?id=2026

 

 

Excellent article. Thanks for posting it.

 

OP, have you read:

 

How Not to Talk to Your Kids: The inverse power of praise By Po Bronson

I highly recommend it.

 

Snip from article:

 

Since Thomas could walk, he has heard constantly that he’s smart. Not just from his parents but from any adult who has come in contact with this precocious child ... But as Thomas has progressed through school, this self-awareness that he’s smart hasn’t always translated into fearless confidence when attacking his schoolwork. In fact, Thomas’s father noticed just the opposite. “Thomas didn’t want to try things he wouldn’t be successful at,†his father says. “Some things came very quickly to him, but when they didn’t, he gave up almost immediately, concluding, ‘I’m not good at this.’ †With no more than a glance, Thomas was dividing the world into two—things he was naturally good at and things he wasn’t.

 

 

 

For instance, in the early grades, Thomas wasn’t very good at spelling, so he simply demurred from spelling out loud. When Thomas took his first look at fractions, he balked. The biggest hurdle came in third grade. He was supposed to learn cursive penmanship, but he wouldn’t even try for weeks. By then, his teacher was demanding homework be completed in cursive. Rather than play catch-up on his penmanship, Thomas refused outright.

 

[Greta]

I guess I'm thinking that it's normal to be able to do something earlier than usual but not always do things earlier than usual. I'm inclined to think it's more of a leveling off sort of thing. But, I'm no expert.

 

I was going to say something very similar. I've heard other parents talk about how a child was really gifted at an early age, but by adolescence, things had "leveled off" and their peers had caught up with them.

 

Try not to worry Carmen. :grouphug: Just provide her with a rich learning environment, but also lots of love and support, which I know you do, and she'll be fine.

Edited May 11, 2010 by GretaLynne

[Lovedtodeath]

We still have some fallout from that 3-4 months where my expectations were unrealistic. We do much better now.

We have had this issue. I think I still tend to try to "enrich" the programs that we use and that is when it backfires the most.

Young children don't process a parents' health problems necessarily the way we'd think, and yes, a difficult pregnancy and the birth of sibling can result in academic set-backs in a young child. They can't necessarily express what they're feeling or process it. The good news is that this is "real life" and they should catch up and adapt over time.

 

I've also noticed that academics don't "stick" in a young child unless you keep at it, so if there was a significant break, it's entirely expected that what was learned was forgotten in most cases.

Well, that would explain everything. Really.

 

There is such a thing as obstinacy. Perhaps the child is signalling that she, herself, wants to lighten up.

 

Gently now from me . . . Reading at age 3 does not denote "genius." Sometimes -- and of course I hope this is not the case for your dd ! -- it denotes the emergence of Asperger's. . . . Sometimes it denotes nothing other than an early reader.

She does not have Asperger's, but she does have anxiety disorder, ADHD and SPD. :o

 

I also vote for environment. One of my kids was speaking well before she turned a year and singing real songs (twinkle, twinkle and eensie weensie spider, etc) at 14 months. I remember because it was Christmas week and we had people over who were astonished. She hit all of her milestones months before average. But she liked being the baby. Unfortunately for her desire to remain a baby, she went on to have two more younger siblings and has never really gotten over her loss in status. For years now, she hasn't lived up to her early promise, not like I imagined she would. I think it has a lot to do with her subconscious desire to keep herself younger than she is.

 

Barb

That seems likely as well.

 

If you have questions about either of these women or their styles please feel free to PM me and I'd be elaborate on my personal testimonials.

Thanks. I am trying to get her to a naturopath. I was waiting until I had the all clear for my condition (which could have been life-threatening) because I have been focusing on treating that, with the money, time and emotional investment that it takes.

 

Carmen, I would suspect that she saw the early learning she did as part of play. Now that she's a big girl, school can start to become a chore. Perhaps backing off and doing the same concepts / skills in math and LA but as part of games might bring back her spark.

This has been in the back of my mind the whole time. I used to wing it and as soon as I started following a curriculum we had these problems.

 

Sounds like you need to a) adjust your expectations b) adjust your attitude about your dd's academic life and c) see what she is really interested in and assess her development in a different way than comparing her with peers.

You all are so wise. I think that I just read another thread and panicked. I probably could have worked through this if running to TWTM boards wasn't my first instinct.:tongue_smilie:

 

I am looking into Auditory Processing and vision issues just in case. Auditory Processing seems more likely.

[Orthodox6]

Ummmmm, what about a barky noise accompanied by a repetitive motion like a sort of sideways skipping for a few paces & then back again? What is that?

 

Very suggestive of Tourette's. Professional diagnosis is needed, if a child consistently shows these behaviours.

[Lovedtodeath]

Excellent article. Thanks for posting it.

 

OP, have you read:

 

How Not to Talk to Your Kids: The inverse power of praise By Po Bronson

I highly recommend it.

 

Snip from article:

Since Thomas could walk, he has heard constantly that he’s smart. Not just from his parents but from any adult who has come in contact with this precocious child ... But as Thomas has progressed through school, this self-awareness that he’s smart hasn’t always translated into fearless confidence when attacking his schoolwork. In fact, Thomas’s father noticed just the opposite. “Thomas didn’t want to try things he wouldn’t be successful at,†his father says. “Some things came very quickly to him, but when they didn’t, he gave up almost immediately, concluding, ‘I’m not good at this.’ †With no more than a glance, Thomas was dividing the world into two—things he was naturally good at and things he wasn’t.

 

For instance, in the early grades, Thomas wasn’t very good at spelling, so he simply demurred from spelling out loud. When Thomas took his first look at fractions, he balked. The biggest hurdle came in third grade. He was supposed to learn cursive penmanship, but he wouldn’t even try for weeks. By then, his teacher was demanding homework be completed in cursive. Rather than play catch-up on his penmanship, Thomas refused outright.

That quote sounds exactly like her, and I haven't always said the right things to her. :glare:

[Orthodox6]

Why ever on earth use the "embarrassed" symbol ??? You should read the collection of acronyms appended to the names of myself and three of the children ! These are not "embarrassments".

 

You have a full plate, but a very "doable" one. :grouphug:

 

Antonia

 

 

She does not have Asperger's, but she does have anxiety disorder, ADHD and SPD. :o

 

[Lovedtodeath]

 

In my experience with my son when kids regress (mine did between 18 months and 2 years without vaccines) they regress in multiple areas. It's not just that learning gets harder or doesn't proceed at the same rate.

Yes, she was always sick (so much so that we were threatened by CPS about her school attendance), her SPD worsened, and developed bladder infections that turned out to be OCD. But, my issues with my mental and physical health could very well be the culprit, not just vaccines. A good naturopath will treat either or both. I just need to do it.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Why ever on earth use the "embarrassed" symbol ???

Because I shouldn't need to ask about this. I should already know. :grouphug: back to you friend.

[TravelingChris]

Also, please consider vision problems. My dd started to read somewhat early (4) and at age 8, she still wasn't reading chapter books. But what I thought was very strange was that she could read complex words in picture books like tthe Beatrix Potter books. I had been taking her faithfully to get an eye exam each year and nothing was found. WHat I did then was call up receptionists of opthalmologists and describe her and ask if the doctor would be able to figure it out. SHe also had a tendency to smash into corners. It turned out that she had a convergence problem. SHe could read the picture books because they had a lot of blank space around the words. SHe was seeing double. We did some therapy at home with just occasional visits and got her glasses with a prism correction and a slight far sighted correctin. Within 6 months, she was reading long, long chapter books. She did not have a reading problem, she had a vision problem. SHe is a big reader still today but her reading becomes problematic if she is very tired or headachy.

[MelanieM]

:grouphug:

Edited May 11, 2010 by MelanieM

[hornblower]

Very suggestive of Tourette's. Professional diagnosis is needed, if a child consistently shows these behaviours.

 

I've split off with another ? so as not to hijack Lovedtodeath's thread :)

 

http://welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176663

[sbgrace]

Yes, she was always sick (so much so that we were threatened by CPS about her school attendance), her SPD worsened, and developed bladder infections that turned out to be OCD. But, my issues with my mental and physical health could very well be the culprit, not just vaccines. A good naturopath will treat either or both. I just need to do it.

Carmen,

Is there a possibility of metabolic issues (mitochondrial for example) with both of you? Is fatigue part of your picture? I posted a link to information I wrote about signs of metabolics on the special needs carnitine thread. You might look and see if it fits with what's going on w/either of you. If you have questions let me know.

[Lovedtodeath]

Carmen,

Is there a possibility of metabolic issues (mitochondrial for example) with both of you? Is fatigue part of your picture? I posted a link to information I wrote about signs of metabolics on the special needs carnitine thread. You might look and see if it fits with what's going on w/either of you. If you have questions let me know.

Thank you. I am on a supplement that includes carnitine as the naturopath has prescribed it.

[JFSinIL]

One of my nephews could phonetically read ANYTHING from age 2...but had no understanding. There is a term for it - which of course I can not remember at the moment!!!!

 

Hyperlexia!!! Got it!!

[Sahamamama]

I haven't read the whole thread, and the girls are quickly devouring lunch, so I've only got a minute! (Bean soup today, it goes quickly).

 

Children are a mystery to me, even though I have three. My firstborn started to walk at age 11 months, but then at 12 months she contracted Rotavirus from the mats at church. WOW, that just slammed her for at least half a year. She didn't even TRY walking again until 14 months, and was so wobbly, poor kid. My husband and I still talk about that, because it amazed us how one virus could wipe out our little Butterball baby. We wonder how the skinny babies made out when they caught RV. :confused:

 

Fast forward a bit, and our twins came along. I remember the Dr. telling me that one twin had low muscle tone in her abdomen, and that's why she was having trouble learning to sit up. I did a bit of research, and started doing "Physical Therapy" at home with her -- in TWO DAYS, we could see and feel the difference in her tone. And she sat up, no problems. Again, we still talk about how quickly a bit of focus on a specific area made an enormous difference. But it might not always be so easy, KWIM?

 

So who can say what's up with your girl? Perhaps the rough pregnancy, and your subsequent physical and emotional unavailability to her has made an impact.... I know that my twin pregnancy put a strain on my oldest, but she was under two at the time and spent every day with my wonderful parents. My theory is that she talks and reads so well because of my mother -- it has nothing to do with me! The total environment of the child adds up, over time, to create the shape of her soul, not just her brain.

 

My oldest was also reading phonetically at age three, and doing first grade math at age four -- but I did not (and do not) put any stock in it, AT ALL.

THIS does NOT make my child a genius, but it does give her something to do when I'm giving her sisters a bath. Just that -- she can read a book to herself when I'm doing something else, but she is only five (in every way) and I'm the Mommy. The workbook pages, the math manipulatives, the memory work -- none of it means anything to me, if I have a miserable, lonely, insecure little girl. In fact, I put more value on a young child's ability to follow and hold a CONVERSATION than in her early phonetic reading. Time will tell, but I think that conversation -- really listening to each other, sharing with each other -- is the key to so much growth and strength in young children.

 

My oldest is only five, and hasn't hit a "plateau" at this point. My heart goes out to her, though, so that I pull back on the academics to develop the whole child -- play, art, discovery, community, training, discipline, affection, laughter, togetherness, solitude. I'm not "unschooling," truly, but I'd rather do NOTHING except play and read aloud, than burn any of us out. HTH. Good luck with your girl!

[Jami]

Just referring to math. Have you used the same program the whole time? Is she struggling with 2nd grade math in the program she formerly did 4th grade work in? Or have you switched programs and perhaps there were gaps before or she's struggling learning a new system to solving problems. I know that when we hit 2nd grade math with Horizons, we hit a huge wall. All of a sudden I realized we'd been moving along and not mastering basics. So we moved into a different program (mastery rather than spiral and very traditional--Rod and Staff) and even moved back 1/2 a grade. Once we had the foundation solidly built, my now almost-4th grade took off.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

:grouphug:

 

(I answered a little bit about TS on Hornblower's spin off thread)

[Brindee]

My middle one was a late learner. He wasn't even interested in learning to talk 'til after he was 3. He wasn't interested in reading or math until at almost 7 the light suddenly went on. I'm serious, it was like one day he couldn't/wouldn't do those 2 things, and the next he was devouring them! He went from barely being able to sound out words, to being on a 7th grade reading level 2 months later (a friend of ours tested him. She works in that field, and was VERY interested in how he shot forward so fast). That year he did the K-3 A Beka math books. He couldn't get enough of reading and math and was just devouring everthing.

 

He never lost his yearning to read, he loves it. However, when he was 8 and heading to through the 6th grade Horizons math book, he suddenly hit a wall. Again, it was that fast. One day he did the work, the next he was crying about it, and saying it was too hard. he was overwhelmed with the sheer size of the math book. We had to totally adjust our plans! We ended up using Life Pac math, as the 10 books gave him quicker rewards for his work, and didn't overwhelm him. He struggled for some time to even like math, and is doing math on level now (he's in 10th grade).

 

Just sayin'.... He had spurts of learning where he went whole-hog with one or two things, then totally switched to something else.

 

You've gotten lots of great advice! Hope you figure it all out to your satisfaction!