It happened again - neighbor's wolf killed our chickens

[Liz CA]

Dh and I spent the morning looking for our 8 week old chicks. The neighbor's wolf clawed into the chicken wire surrounding the outer area of our coop. The hole was not big enough for the wolf to go in but evidently all chickens marched out.

We were lucky we found 7 of the 9 alive. One Australorp was dead (neck broken) and one is still missing in action, presumed dead.

 

Dh is livid. This is the third time this wolf has "played" with our hens and he is ready to shoot her (wolf) when she comes over again.

I am very much a "live and let live" person but I do want to keep my birds alive. The neighbor who raised this wolf from a cub says he cannot restrain her because she is a wolf. :glare:

This wolf comes over to play with our dog and is very friendly like a tame dog.

 

I don't feel we can really shoot the wolf - even when she is on our property. Would an air soft gun pellet deter her? Spray her with water? Yell at her?

I am exhausted from running around all morning and at my wit's end.

 

 

[TravelingChris]

Is it legal where you live to own a wolf without a permit? I would check on this since in many areas, owning a wild animal without a very special permit is not permitted. It may even be covered by federal regulations since I think the wolf is an endangered animal.

[Mynyel]

I would find out what the local laws are there regarding the dogs. They may have to keep them restrained. I would think certainly at least on their own property.

 

Maybe suggest an underground fence to the dog owner. They don't have to "tether" the dog and they can let the dog roam "free".

 

I would have to do something though, I wouldn't want the dog to keep killing my animals! :)

[Amy Jo]

A BB gun might do - be sure you are SAFE. Personally I would call animal control (or whoever the authority is). Can you trap the wolf on your property? Then you could have it taken by animal control and she would have to pay a fine.

 

I would have no issues shooting the animal if it were on my property (assuming it was safe and legal to fire a gun). Is it legal to shoot any wolf? Even a tame one? Saying that, I would warn the neighbor without threatening, and try other methods first.

 

Have you thought about getting a horse electric fence charger and running a hot wire around the outside of your coop?

 

Good luck!

[Liz CA]

Is it legal where you live to own a wolf without a permit? I would check on this since in many areas, owning a wild animal without a very special permit is not permitted. It may even be covered by federal regulations since I think the wolf is an endangered animal.

 

DH says it is NOT legal to own a wolf. We have never reported these people to anyone because they obviously had her since the wolf was a cub and I don't like to make trouble for anyone. We live in a very rural area and we all have dogs and various livestock. HOWEVER, I am not okay with the wolf coming to kill my chickens. I am torn between reporting them or just re-enforcing the chicken coop (dh is out there now, wrapping stronger mesh around the whole thing).

[SonshineLearner]

How bout if he put up an invisible fence with the whole collar thing to train it not to go past his property. Would that work with a wolf?? Otherwise, I would just say, "fine" and it's understandable. So, when your wolf kills our chickies, how bout $40 a chick or something?? I'd put a camera up.... seems like you could charge something, right? Usually... money talks...

But, I'm not sure I'd want a wolf roaming around anyway... since I have kids and such....

 

Can't contain an animal? Maybe you shouldn't have one???!!!!

[Mrs Mungo]

DH says it is NOT legal to own a wolf. We have never reported these people to anyone because they obviously had her since the wolf was a cub and I don't like to make trouble for anyone. We live in a very rural area and we all have dogs and various livestock. HOWEVER, I am not okay with the wolf coming to kill my chickens. I am torn between reporting them or just re-enforcing the chicken coop (dh is out there now, wrapping stronger mesh around the whole thing).

 

Hm, if I were in this situation (and I am not you!), I wouldn't want to report the person. I would probably have a sit-down with them and explain that: 1. they need to restrain their pet (through training, fencing, nighttime kennel, *something*) or have it released into the wild, 2. they need to pay for the property damage and replace your chickens and 3. you will report it as a last resort.

[Quickbeam]

I can only imagine, and I'm sorry your chicks were killed. I hope a resolution can be found that works for everyone, but it seems unreasonable to me for your neighbor to keep such an animal as a pet.

[Liz CA]

Have you thought about getting a horse electric fence charger and running a hot wire around the outside of your coop?

 

Good luck!

 

This thought occurred to me after the search this morning. Perhaps we can rig something up that will shock the wolf away from the coop. Since we don't have small children anymore, it should be okay. This could be a good solution without having to harm the wolf or get into some fruitless conflict with the neighbor.

I will just have to remember not to touch the wrong area myself! ;)

[myfunnybunch]

Have you talked to them about it yet? What did they say?

 

At a minimum, I'd expect them to replace the chicks or reimburse you, help pay for the reinforced fencing you're putting in, and discuss steps they need to take to keep it from happening again.

 

Otherwise, I'd call animal control.

 

Cat

[Liz CA]

Have you talked to them about it yet? What did they say?

 

At a minimum, I'd expect them to replace the chicks or reimburse you, help pay for the reinforced fencing you're putting in, and discuss steps they need to take to keep it from happening again.

 

Otherwise, I'd call animal control.

 

Cat

 

Dh will be having a conversation with them soon. He just needs to pipe down a little before he confronts them. ;)

I would like to avoid calling animal control but if we cannot find a solution (like the electrically charged fence or something of that nature) this will be the last resort. Right now, dh just got done wrapping a dense, strong mesh around so there are two layers of wire surrounding the coop.

[myfunnybunch]

I would like to avoid calling animal control but if we cannot find a solution (like the electrically charged fence or something of that nature) this will be the last resort.

 

I can understand that, especially if owning a wolf is illegal in your county. If animal control is called in, it's likely the wolf would be taken away and not returned, which doesn't exactly make for good relations with your neighbors, right?

 

But then again, I can't imagine having any animal in my control attack the neighbor's chickens three times without taking steps to prevent it.

 

I hope that they are responsive and it just doesn't turn into any more of an issue.

 

Cat

[melissel]

At a minimum, I'd expect them to replace the chicks or reimburse you, help pay for the reinforced fencing you're putting in, and discuss steps they need to take to keep it from happening again.

 

Otherwise, I'd call animal control.

 

Cat

 

I agree with this. As NayfiesMama said, money talks. Start tallying up how much this unrestrained animal has cost you in resources (new chicks and materials) and effort. If the neighbor feels that he (she?) cannot restrain him in some way, then he'll have to bear the consequences. In this case, they are (at minimum) financial. Pretty soon it will cost him in neighborly goodwill, and eventually it will cost him a beloved pet.

[Liz CA]

I can understand that, especially if owning a wolf is illegal in your county. If animal control is called in, it's likely the wolf would be taken away and not returned, which doesn't exactly make for good relations with your neighbors, right?

 

Cat

 

Yes, exactly why I don't want to involve anybody else. The last time it happened, the wolf decimated our adult flock, sat near the coop after the deed was done. She does not kill to eat; it seems she wants to play with them and in the process breaks their necks.

When dh talked to wolf's owner, he said, he never saw her with a chicken and we cannot be sure that it was not a coyote (we have those too). However, there is now a pattern and today dh saw the wolf chasing the chicken and was able to chase her off which is probably why we were able to save 7 out of the 9.

I am going to bury "Arabella" now.

[SeekingSimplicity]

Aw... I'm sorry about your chicks. We had a hunting dog get ours once. Dh knew who he belonged to and called them. Told them to come get their dog before he decided to have dog stew for supper.

 

The bad thing is, once a dog starts killing chickens, it wont ever stop. It will just keep on and keep on. Your neighbors need to be made aware of this. I don't know about where you live, but where we are there is no animal control and very few laws concerning animals. It would be within our legal right to shoot an animal killing our chickens (any animal posing a threat may be shot). But so far we've never had to resort to that. Just talking to people has worked.

 

Hope you get it all worked out, and your chickies stay safe.

[melissel]

Ugh, it sounds like your neighbor's the one who needs the shock collar :glare: What is wrong with people?

[elfgivas]

i'm sorry about your chickens : (.

 

you s.aid you had coyotes around, too, so i'm thinking rebuilding your coop may be the best path forward.

 

(here in SoCal, we've lost some due to coyotes, and some due to bobcats.... and we've just rebuilt the coop several times until it is pretty hard for anything to get into. there are 2 x 4s, mesh stapled to them and buried under ground so nothing can dig under. there is a mesh "roof" with wooden supports. ).

 

good luck,

ann

[stripe]

I don't think you have an obligation to go out of your way to avoid making trouble for someone who has no problem allowing their wild animal to make trouble for you. But if you really want, I'd sit the neighbors down for a little chat. Killing your animals is not acceptable, and wild "pets" shouldn't be allowed to roam wherever they want.

[Lara in Colo]

I've said this before and was sort of blasted but CAYENNE PEPPER.

 

Lara

[cathmom]

Hm, if I were in this situation (and I am not you!), I wouldn't want to report the person. I would probably have a sit-down with them and explain that: 1. they need to restrain their pet (through training, fencing, nighttime kennel, *something*) or have it released into the wild, 2. they need to pay for the property damage and replace your chickens and 3. you will report it as a last resort.

 

:iagree:

 

 

Wolves are NOT tame, they are NOT dogs...I would not be happy about a wolf roaming around free!

[Laurie4b]

Sounds like you are a nice neighbor. I would tell all that to the wolf owners (We don't want to call animal control or something but we don't want our chickens harmed) and ask if they would either restrain their animal or rig up your chicken coop to keep their dog out. It really should be their responsibility.

[Brigitte]

The neighbor who raised this wolf from a cub says he cannot restrain her because she is a wolf. :glare:

 

I hate to point out the obvious to your neighbor, but if she is a wolf she should be out in nature not his home or she should be at a wild life refuge where they can best replicate her natural environment. If he is going to domesticate her enough to be a pet, he can restrain her. If he can't restrain her, she need to go back to the wild or to a refuge.

[Slartibartfast]

I would reinforce the pen a lot more than what you are doing and a low charge electric fence would probably be a good idea as well. I don't know where you live but if a wolf could get in a pen then other wild animals could as well. Foxes also tend to just kill chickens for fun.

 

Obviously the risk of extreme chicken carnage goes up if a wolf lives next door but I do think a stronger pen might be needed.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Sis

[hillfarm]

After reinforcing the pen with wire, be sure to put a wire "skirt" around the bottom of the pen and attach it well to the wire sides and stake the sides into place. This will keep the predators from digging in from the ground around the pen. We have to do this to keep possums from digging under our portable pen and killing our chickens.

 

Check out the Premier Fence website ( http://www.premier1supplies.com/poultry/species.php ), they have many options to consider and good information about the safe and effective use of electric fencing.

 

I wouldn't come down too much on the wolf any more so than a dog for killing the chickens. I have seen domestic, pet dogs do the exact same thing. The bottom line is that in most rural areas, animal owners are responsible for the damage their animals do to the property of others (unless your state has those fence-out exceptions that require the property owner to keep other people's animals away from their own).

[hornblower]

Yanno, I doubt it's a real wolf.

We have a lot of 'half-wolves' or 'quarter-wolves' coming into the northern breed rescue & usually they're not wolf at all, just malamute X's. AND that's a really good thing b/e real wolves, even 1/2 or 1/4 crosses are REALLY, really hard to live with once they reach maturity, even when raised from a pup. A lot of people though like to claim their dog is x% wolf.....like it's a status symbol.

 

But regardless of whether it's a wolf or not, I probably would report.

 

Actually if it really was a wolf, I'd report it. It cannot be released into the wild btw. It needs to go to a sanctuary, like this:

http://www.wildspiritwolfsanctuary.org/

I don't agree with people keeping these animals as pets......

 

If it was actually a dog, I might give the owner a few more chances to get their head on straight.

 

Around here it is legal to shoot any wolf/coyote/or domestic dog that is harassing livestock.

 

I'd get a hot fence to protect you from coyotes etc.

 

And I'd consider adopting a Livestock Guardian Dog (akbash, maremma, or pyr) & putting it in charge of the chickens. An LGD will fight & kill a wolf to protect its flock.

Edited May 9, 2010 by hornblower

[Liz CA]

I hate to point out the obvious to your neighbor, but if she is a wolf she should be out in nature not his home or she should be at a wild life refuge where they can best replicate her natural environment. If he is going to domesticate her enough to be a pet, he can restrain her. If he can't restrain her, she need to go back to the wild or to a refuge.

 

I have to say that I was never sure she is a 100% wolf. Like hornblower said in her post, a lot of them are mixes. When she first moved here and came around, I thought she was some kind of Alaskan Malamute / Husky mix but her ears do look a lot like a wolf and the neighbor swears she is 100% wolf.

She came back an hour ago and dh pelted her with airsoft pellets and she ran off. She does know she did something bad but that is not going to keep her from doing it again.

 

For now, we will go with the electrically charged fence skirting and discourage the wolf from coming around. I never fed her but I also have never chased her off either.

We have the remaining 7 chicken inside the coop house and they cannot come out to the enclosure area until I remove a board tomorrow morning. I hope they feel safer now. We fixed the torn wire.

[Remudamom]

You most certainly CAN break a dog from killing chickens, I'd think a domesticated wolf too. One of my border collies, Boone, killed forty chickens before I convinced him it wasn't in his best interests to do so, but now I trust him alone with the chickens free. He hasn't killed one in about ten years.

[Renee in NC]

Aw... I'm sorry about your chicks. We had a hunting dog get ours once. Dh knew who he belonged to and called them. Told them to come get their dog before he decided to have dog stew for supper.

 

The bad thing is, once a dog starts killing chickens, it wont ever stop. It will just keep on and keep on. Your neighbors need to be made aware of this. I don't know about where you live, but where we are there is no animal control and very few laws concerning animals. It would be within our legal right to shoot an animal killing our chickens (any animal posing a threat may be shot). But so far we've never had to resort to that. Just talking to people has worked.

 

Hope you get it all worked out, and your chickies stay safe.

 

:iagree:

 

We had serious problems with a dog from a mile or so away. It killed chickens, turkeys, and rabbits. Finally, it killed our baby pygmy goats. Animal control *finally* took action then, listed it as a dangerous animal, and set restrictions. A few weeks later it was back (killing a dozen rabbits this time.) Animal control picked up the animal and had it put down.

 

Another neighbor's dog kept killing our chickens, but the neighbor didn't care. It wasn't until one of our Muskovey ducks sliced her open did she get the point (they were bigger than she and she ended up with many stitches from it.) That neighbor's advice to me was that we needed better pens (nevermind that her dog was running loose.:glare:)

 

ETA: The dog who killed the goats was a "wolf cross" (maybe - probably a malamute as hornblower said.)

[Impish]

Hm, if I were in this situation (and I am not you!), I wouldn't want to report the person. I would probably have a sit-down with them and explain that: 1. they need to restrain their pet (through training, fencing, nighttime kennel, *something*) or have it released into the wild, 2. they need to pay for the property damage and replace your chickens and 3. you will report it as a last resort.

 

:iagree:I'd be shooting, I hate to say it, but true. Folks who think they've domesticated wolves are idiots, imo. A wild animal is a wild animal, and SHOULD have been left **** well alone. It sincerely p*sses me off that ppl put their selfish desire (wouldn't a pet wolf be cool?) ahead of what's best for the animal.

 

We have a Pyr x Akbash, and got her precisely because she is a LGD. Although, at this point, I don't see her being a livestock guardian, but a family guardian...and I'm good with that :D I fully intend to either breed her OR get another LGD when we finally move...or both. And keep several of her pups, since we're looking at having livestock.

 

We've had talks with Diva when it comes to training our dog. One of the things we've really impressed upon Diva is how incredibly important Cassie coming when called is, that its not a game of chase, etc...because we get out to the country, Cassie gets in with someone's livestock, and she's going to get shot. Period. And we'll have whatever vet bills might be needed for the other farm's animal to boot.

 

That's just how it worked when my parents had a farm, and everyone I knew that had a farm did it. Strange animal = dead animal. Just not worth the risk.

 

Your neighbours are taking advantage of you.

[FaithManor]

In my area, like Imp said, the dog would be dead. The law is not kind to animals that destroy livestock and owners are allowed to shoot if the animal offending animal. As a matter of fact, law enforcement is currently encouraging this. We've had a disturbing number of skunks, bats, and raccoons that have tested positive for rabies. Dogs that are roaming the woods and chasing wild critters are at high risk for contracting the disease. Since irresponsible owners tend to also not keep vaccinations current, this means that we are facing transmission of the disease to domesticated animals. We've already had two horses put down for contracting rabies in their own paddocks due to skunks. Normally, rabies vaccines are not given to horses in this area, but now everyone is getting their livestock vaccinated. Also, the entire family at that farm plus three hired stable hands had to be given the vaccine. Its a series of six shots and each one costs $600.00 each. So, if your insurance doesn't cover it, the cost is astronomical and especially if an entire family needs vaccination.

 

So, my advice is to get animal control involved and if that doesn't work, demand financial restitution from the family. This would include the cost of reinforcing the pen and the loss of the chickens plus the cost of dh's time to clean up after dead chickens plus repair the coop. Let them know that if they don't control the animal or get rid of it, you will continue to sue them in small claims court plus notify the authorities of every incident. Its likely that the county will either demand that the animal be put down or they will have it done voluntarily in order to avoid further costs.

 

Also, you need to march over there and demand proof of rabies vaccination and the date should not be more than 12 months old. Otherwise, this is absolutely a case for animal control. If that animal is killing your chickens, who knows what other wild animals it has gone after.

 

Faith

[creekland]

In my area, like Imp said, the dog would be dead. The law is not kind to animals that destroy livestock and owners are allowed to shoot if the animal offending animal. As a matter of fact, law enforcement is currently encouraging this.

 

Same here. We had two strange dalmatians come and kill all of our neighbor's chickens one day. I tried to go up to the dogs, but one came lunging at me. My instinct had me kick her in the muzzle and she backed off (good thing, or I'd be dead). I retreated to my house, called the sheriff, and he told me to shoot the dogs since the dead chickens were proof.

 

The dogs lived simply because we didn't have ammo at the time. Our mail lady recognized where they came from and got the owner to come. He arrived at the same time as the game warden. The owner got a ticket for dogs running at large as well as had to pay for the chickens. We haven't seen them since, but we now keep ammo in the house. Considering how willing the one was to attack me, if I see them again near our house, they're dead.

 

That's the one day I praised my boys for forgetting to let our chickens out of their coop in the morning...

 

If these folks were our neighbors, they'd be paying for the chickens as well as having to keep their wolf at home. I'm all for live and let live, but that includes MY chickens.

[Amy Jo]

This thought occurred to me after the search this morning. Perhaps we can rig something up that will shock the wolf away from the coop. Since we don't have small children anymore, it should be okay. This could be a good solution without having to harm the wolf or get into some fruitless conflict with the neighbor.

I will just have to remember not to touch the wrong area myself! ;)

 

LOL. We just ran a fence for the horse, of all my children, only DS6 has touched the fence (on accident - only once). And he is not traumatized.

 

I think I read you are using mesh - if that is chicken mesh / wire I wouldn't bother. You aren't trying to keep chickens in, you are keeping predators OUT. I use 2x4 welded wire, 6 ft tall, buried ~8-12" in the ground. I have the chicken mesh on top only.

 

With a wolf, if your neighbor won't help, I would invest in a dog kennel - the panels with chain link. Sometimes you can get a good deal used, and that *should* keep the wolf out. Especially with a hot wire.

 

HTH

[Cricket]

In my area, like Imp said, the dog would be dead. The law is not kind to animals that destroy livestock and owners are allowed to shoot if the animal offending animal. As a matter of fact, law enforcement is currently encouraging this. We've had a disturbing number of skunks, bats, and raccoons that have tested positive for rabies. Dogs that are roaming the woods and chasing wild critters are at high risk for contracting the disease. Since irresponsible owners tend to also not keep vaccinations current, this means that we are facing transmission of the disease to domesticated animals. We've already had two horses put down for contracting rabies in their own paddocks due to skunks. Normally, rabies vaccines are not given to horses in this area, but now everyone is getting their livestock vaccinated. Also, the entire family at that farm plus three hired stable hands had to be given the vaccine. Its a series of six shots and each one costs $600.00 each. So, if your insurance doesn't cover it, the cost is astronomical and especially if an entire family needs vaccination.

 

So, my advice is to get animal control involved and if that doesn't work, demand financial restitution from the family. This would include the cost of reinforcing the pen and the loss of the chickens plus the cost of dh's time to clean up after dead chickens plus repair the coop. Let them know that if they don't control the animal or get rid of it, you will continue to sue them in small claims court plus notify the authorities of every incident. Its likely that the county will either demand that the animal be put down or they will have it done voluntarily in order to avoid further costs.

 

Also, you need to march over there and demand proof of rabies vaccination and the date should not be more than 12 months old. Otherwise, this is absolutely a case for animal control. If that animal is killing your chickens, who knows what other wild animals it has gone after.

 

Faith

 

:iagree: We had a neighbor's dog kill some of our chickens. I drove up to our house as the dog was shaking them and tossing them in the air. We could have sued the family for (I think) $100 per chicken. Chickens are worth quite a bit more than a few bucks. After the one incident, my husband marched over there and told the neighbors that if that dog so much as put one paw on our property again, it would be dead.

[Tree House Academy]

We had an opossum kill 2 (big) hens and our sweet rooster just last week. I was so mad that I gladly shot the darn thing when we caught him in a trap on Saturday. *growl*

 

If my neighbors had a WOLF and it ate my chickens, I would kindly share this info with my neighbor while reminding them that it isn't exactly legal to own a WOLF. Geesh!

[Tree House Academy]

Are you familiar with the term SSSU? As in shoot, shovel and shut up? End of problem. You are well within your rights without the shoveling part, but sometimes that's easier with neighbors.

 

AMEN :iagree: My chickens are like pets to me. Losing any one of them absolutely tears me up. Losing our rooster was just beyond difficult. That opossum deserved to be shot and shoveled!!

[misidawnrn]

I live in MT and a wolf is a wolf is a wolf is a wolf!!!!! Wolves cause very serious injury/death to wild life and not just for food. They kill just for the fun of the hunt. If my neighbor had a wolf and it came to my property (assuming I lived out of town which I don't) I would shoot it, no questions asked. Today it was your chickens. What happens when it harms your dogs or worse...your kids!

I would report the wolf! Wolves aren't endangered anymore (at least not here in MT) infact they are debating increasing the number of permits issued to hunt them. I am not really for the sport of hunting wolves for the sport either but I am for farmers being able to shoot them to protect livestock.

I have horrible pictures of wolf damage to deer, elk and dogs still on chains if you need proof of the damage they do. I just don't want to post them on here because they are graphic. PM me if you want them.

Edited May 11, 2010 by misidawnrn
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