Serious Question

[cdrumm4448]

I am not asking this question to start a fight, debate or anything other than to find legitimate answers.

 

I have a good friend who considers herself a Liberal (in the political sense), and she also is an unschooler. I have noticed that her political views are very large-government oriented (wants many government-paid-for services and much regulation), but she does not want the government in her life where education is concerned. She is against standardized testing, and the regulation of homeschooling.

 

My question is: how does someone who considers themselves very Liberal reconcile the two? Either you want big government and regulation in your life, or you don't. Can someone who feels this way please explain how they got there?

 

I consider myself a Conservative and am trying to better understand where others are coming from.

[Chris in VA]

Well, it's funny, b/c my hubby is a bit opposite--he is a Democrat, because he thinks a society ought to help with social stuff, but he is pretty conservative when it comes to values.

I guess it's just a pick and choose thing--not easily reconciled, perhaps, but some people aren't "all or nothing," and like to eclectically pick the best and leave the rest, so to speak. Kind of like being a neo-classical educator, but unschooling science...:lol:

I hope this doesn't get derailed, because I'd like to see the answers you get.

[Carrie12345]

I've always assumed that most people would disagree with a few individual ideas even when they label themselves as aligned with a particular group. I'm very skeptical of anyone who buys into an entire ideology and question whether they actually know what they're agreeing with.

 

Most people consider me to be very liberal, which is fine, but then their jaw drops when I have a conservative thought. I don't understand that shock.

 

I want strong social services. I want freedom of and freedom from religion. I want good people protected from bad people. Heck, I even want bad people protected from bad people.

 

What I don't want is people "protected" from themselves. I believe in the right to pursue happiness as I see fit, so long as I'm not infringing on anyone else's rights, and I believe that extends to the right to raise and educate my children as I see fit.

 

I object to the idea that homeschoolers should be held to different and higher standards than the broken system we left is held to. I object to the implied assumption that I'm less capable, less dedicated, and less qualified to do an equivalent or better job. I object to the idea that ps curricula is the best method of education, and I resent being required to prove my methods when theirs have already been proved lacking.

 

That does not contradict my desire for a (better) government system that would ensure all people to adequate basic needs.

[Kim in Appalachia]

:001_smile:

 

I think conservatives can be the same way, saying the government should be limited, except where they think the government should exert more control.

 

I don't think it's a liberal/conservative thing, just a people issue.

 

 

I guess an example would be that I'm fairly conservative (meaning limited government), but I do think there should be strick enviromental laws, because the enviroment affects everyone. And while I think there should be more school choice, I do think having some sort of government standards is necessary.

 

I also think there are a lot of issues that liberals and conservatives actually would agree on but that's a different thread. :001_smile:

[Mermaid Mama]

This is why I can not say that I belong to one party or another.

I think we need government protection from big business - but that's never going to happen because even a "liberal" president put an ex employee of Monsanto in charge of food safety!!!! Can you say, "The wolf is guarding the hen house?"

 

So basically - we need protection from our government!

 

I think we should do away with taxes altogether or just tax income 10% for EVERYONE. If you make a dollar - you pay 10 cents. You make 10 dollars you pay a dollar. And ONLY income is taxed. The gov't will need to budget accordingly.

 

Think about how many times our money is taxed.....you get taxed when you earn it, taxed when you spend it, taxed when you save it, taxed when your kids inherit it!!!! A car that gets sold 4 times - gets taxed 4 times!

 

Good grief!

 

I also think that if we were allowed to keep our money we could do more to help those in need. It's called sharing and I think we should learn to take care of our communities without the government stealing it first!

 

So....I don't think I've really answered this question as you asked.

I agree with the posters who mention that no one really believes 100% in their own party's ideology. It's impossible. And I think your friend is confused. You can't have it both ways. You can't have an all powerful government controlling only what you want controlled. Give them all power - loose yours.

[jld]

Hi, cd. Thanks for your post.

 

I think I am liberal in some ways and conservative in others. I agree with those who have said that we need protection on issues where we can all be hurt, say protecting the environment, on which we all rely, or regulating the financial world, since we are all feeling the effects of the deregulation there over the last decade. But I don't feel like the gov't belongs in my personal life, telling me how to educate my kids or whether or not I can have an abortion.

 

Does that make me a liberal or a conservative? I don't know.

[triadofchaos]

I think it's easy enough to have diverse views on different issues, no intense reconciliation process necessary. I think the number of folks who have political views that *exactly* line up with whatever political party or classification they tend to identify themselves as are actually outnumbered by those with more varied viewpoints that do not fall strictly along party lines. I have a terrible time trying to pick a category for my views related to government as I don't "fit" anywhere in particular along the spectrum.

 

As far as education vs. other government roles, I firmly believe that education should be a local issue. I don't think the federal or state governments should be involved in education. At all. But that's just me. Then at the same time I'm sure I have opinions on other issues that would get me labeled as a stark raving liberal/conservative/libertarian/progressive if someone wanted to label me on just that one issue.

 

People are complex. IMHO.

[cathmom]

I think we should do away with taxes altogether or just tax income 10% for EVERYONE. If you make a dollar - you pay 10 cents. You make 10 dollars you pay a dollar. And ONLY income is taxed. The gov't will need to budget accordingly.

 

Think about how many times our money is taxed.....you get taxed when you earn it, taxed when you spend it, taxed when you save it, taxed when your kids inherit it!!!! A car that gets sold 4 times - gets taxed 4 times!

 

 

 

 

 

I've been saying this for several years. 10% on all earned income, no loopholes. It would be so simple.

[Mejane]

I think you will also find many conservatives who decry big government and liberal social programs are right there with their hand out when they need something. Point being, our personal political values may fluctuate depending on what is going on in our real life.

[Jen500]

I think you will also find many conservatives who decry big government and liberal social programs are right there with their hand out when they need something. Point being, our personal political values may fluctuate depending on what is going on in our real life.

 

:iagree:

[MSNative]

What an interesting question. I wonder why so many of us are "both" when it comes to political thought. Is it because the parties are aligned oddly or because we haven't taken the time to think through our positions? (rhetorical, thinking question, not snarky). I bet it's somewhere in between. Certainly neither major political party is "pure." They've each lined up with special interests and tend to vote for the special interest rather than their ideals. That's why some people label themselves conservative or liberal, not Republican or Democrat. But, I also think that most of us have a general sense of what we think and don't take the time to distill it into a coherent, consistent philosophy. Could be an interesting exercise.

[secular_mom]

I've always assumed that most people would disagree with a few individual ideas even when they label themselves as aligned with a particular group. I'm very skeptical of anyone who buys into an entire ideology and question whether they actually know what they're agreeing with.

 

Most people consider me to be very liberal, which is fine, but then their jaw drops when I have a conservative thought. I don't understand that shock.

 

I want strong social services. I want freedom of and freedom from religion. I want good people protected from bad people. Heck, I even want bad people protected from bad people.

 

What I don't want is people "protected" from themselves. I believe in the right to pursue happiness as I see fit, so long as I'm not infringing on anyone else's rights, and I believe that extends to the right to raise and educate my children as I see fit.

 

I object to the idea that homeschoolers should be held to different and higher standards than the broken system we left is held to. I object to the implied assumption that I'm less capable, less dedicated, and less qualified to do an equivalent or better job. I object to the idea that ps curricula is the best method of education, and I resent being required to prove my methods when theirs have already been proved lacking.

 

That does not contradict my desire for a (better) government system that would ensure all people to adequate basic needs.

:iagree:

[cara]

I've always assumed that most people would disagree with a few individual ideas even when they label themselves as aligned with a particular group. I'm very skeptical of anyone who buys into an entire ideology and question whether they actually know what they're agreeing with.

 

Most people consider me to be very liberal, which is fine, but then their jaw drops when I have a conservative thought. I don't understand that shock.

 

I want strong social services. I want freedom of and freedom from religion. I want good people protected from bad people. Heck, I even want bad people protected from bad people.

 

What I don't want is people "protected" from themselves. I believe in the right to pursue happiness as I see fit, so long as I'm not infringing on anyone else's rights, and I believe that extends to the right to raise and educate my children as I see fit.

 

I object to the idea that homeschoolers should be held to different and higher standards than the broken system we left is held to. I object to the implied assumption that I'm less capable, less dedicated, and less qualified to do an equivalent or better job. I object to the idea that ps curricula is the best method of education, and I resent being required to prove my methods when theirs have already been proved lacking.

 

That does not contradict my desire for a (better) government system that would ensure all people to adequate basic needs.

 

:iagree:

[Carrie12345]

Man, if I'd known people would quote me, I'd have done a better job of proofreading! :lol:

[astrid]

I think you will also find many conservatives who decry big government and liberal social programs are right there with their hand out when they need something. Point being, our personal political values may fluctuate depending on what is going on in our real life.

 

YES. THIS. I was just reading to the bottom of this thread before posting-- good thing I did, as mejane has articulated my feelings exactly.

 

astrid

[StaceyinLA]

all of their party's beliefs. I have always considered myself pretty much a die-hard Republican, but I can tell you that I think I am swaying from that. I certainly now call myself an Independent.

 

I am pro-life when it comes to babies, pro death-penalty when it comes to criminals. I am anti-gay marriage, but not homophobic (I just truly believe in the sanctity of marriage the way God designed it).

 

I am certainly anti-big-government (I just don't like them in my business). I LOVE the idea of a flat sales tax. I support having social services, but believe that there should be limits, and drug-testing for recipients. IOW, I don't feel like it is the total responsibility of hard workers to support those who have no drive to work at all.

 

I am NOT for gun control, but AM for people having to have background checks to own guns. I AM for control of semi-automatic and automatic weapons (unless the cops are gonna carry them too).

 

I don't buy into global warming, but DO believe we have a responsibility to take care of the earth we were given. I am against animal testing and factory farming and certainly do not believe the government is looking out for my best interests where food/food safety are concerned.

 

I guess what really pushes me over the edge is that I am for the legalization (or at least decriminalization) of marijuana. I am NOT a smoker, but I don't see it as being more detrimental to our society than alcohol (and in some ways probably LESS so), and I think it has many benefits for people who are taking "legal" drugs (such as anxiety meds, etc). I hate that the government says, "OK," to chemical drugs that rot your organs, but, "NO," to something more natural like pot that could be a benefit to people. Again, I am NOT a smoker, and probably wouldn't be either way. Stuff like this just bothers me...

 

Okay, so now yall know the REAL me. Where do I fit in??

[KnitWit]

I have ala carte political views and I resent people jumping to pigeon hole me and assume they know all about me because I might agree with them, or disagree with them, on ONE point.

 

This is the biggest frustration to me every time I need to vote. Most of the time, I don't really like, line up with or totally agree with ANYONE! LOL!

 

And the whole *drinking the kool-aid* thing cracks me up. Everyone is...just different flavors! LOL! Even my friends who *claim* they are independant all speak the same rhetoric. LOL!

[HRAAB]

I've always assumed that most people would disagree with a few individual ideas even when they label themselves as aligned with a particular group. I'm very skeptical of anyone who buys into an entire ideology and question whether they actually know what they're agreeing with.

 

Most people consider me to be very liberal, which is fine, but then their jaw drops when I have a conservative thought. I don't understand that shock.

 

I want strong social services. I want freedom of and freedom from religion. I want good people protected from bad people. Heck, I even want bad people protected from bad people.

 

What I don't want is people "protected" from themselves. I believe in the right to pursue happiness as I see fit, so long as I'm not infringing on anyone else's rights, and I believe that extends to the right to raise and educate my children as I see fit.

 

I object to the idea that homeschoolers should be held to different and higher standards than the broken system we left is held to. I object to the implied assumption that I'm less capable, less dedicated, and less qualified to do an equivalent or better job. I object to the idea that ps curricula is the best method of education, and I resent being required to prove my methods when theirs have already been proved lacking.

 

That does not contradict my desire for a (better) government system that would ensure all people to adequate basic needs.

 

:iagree:

[HRAAB]

I think you will also find many conservatives who decry big government and liberal social programs are right there with their hand out when they need something. Point being, our personal political values may fluctuate depending on what is going on in our real life.

 

And :iagree:with this, too.

[hornblower]

Well, all you have to look at is general conservative views regarding government interference in fetal stem cell research, abortion and reproductive technologies to see a major dilemma regarding how much government should interfere.

 

I'm socially liberal, fiscally conservative; pro gun-control, pro-choice, pro environmental protection, pro public health care, pro gay marriage. WRT to homeschooling: I am not pro testing or supervision of homeschoolers but I am pro social services keeping an eye on all children & families for cases of neglect and abuse.

[Mejane]

I'm socially liberal, fiscally conservative; pro gun-control, pro-choice, pro environmental protection, pro public health care, pro gay marriage. WRT to homeschooling: I am not pro testing or supervision of homeschoolers but I am pro social services keeping an eye on all children & families for cases of neglect and abuse.

 

You just described me to a T.

[Diane in CO]

 

I'm socially liberal, fiscally conservative; pro gun-control, pro-choice, pro environmental protection, pro public health care, pro gay marriage. WRT to homeschooling: I am not pro testing or supervision of homeschoolers but I am pro social services keeping an eye on all children & families for cases of neglect and abuse.

 

I am pro-life and not pro gay marriage but otherwise this describes me as well :D

[Mrs Mungo]

I have a good friend who considers herself a Liberal (in the political sense), and she also is an unschooler. I have noticed that her political views are very large-government oriented (wants many government-paid-for services and much regulation), but she does not want the government in her life where education is concerned. She is against standardized testing, and the regulation of homeschooling.

 

My question is: how does someone who considers themselves very Liberal reconcile the two? Either you want big government and regulation in your life, or you don't. Can someone who feels this way please explain how they got there?

 

Generally speaking *both* parties have this issue. Liberals tend to be pro-regulation of big business for the protection of the little guy and pro-*personal* privacy for the same reason. Conservatives tend to be the opposite with the exception of gun control.

[KrissiK]

I would identify myself as conservative, pretty much straight down the line. And, I will say we practice what we preach. As parents who have adopted out of the foster care system, we are actually eligible for monthly govt. handouts for our kids, including Medi-Cal until they are 18 years old. And yes, this is for legally adopted children. We have declined any and all aid for our children. It's a matter of principle for us. While we are registered Republicans, we don't identify ourselves with the Republican party so much because we are pro-life and the party is straying from that, as well as a host of other things. I think regarding a perceived inconsistency ideologically... well, I'll refrain from stating my opinion about that.:D

[Jenny in Atl]

The one thing I always wonder, when I hear people wanting educational choices to be made at the local level is... do you really like your local government? :confused:

 

I honestly fear my mine, and they have guns too. :lol:

[Hockey Mom]

all of their party's beliefs. I have always considered myself pretty much a die-hard Republican, but I can tell you that I think I am swaying from that. I certainly now call myself an Independent.

 

I am pro-life when it comes to babies, pro death-penalty when it comes to criminals. I am anti-gay marriage, but not homophobic (I just truly believe in the sanctity of marriage the way God designed it).

 

I am certainly anti-big-government (I just don't like them in my business). I LOVE the idea of a flat sales tax. I support having social services, but believe that there should be limits, and drug-testing for recipients. IOW, I don't feel like it is the total responsibility of hard workers to support those who have no drive to work at all.

 

I am NOT for gun control, but AM for people having to have background checks to own guns. I AM for control of semi-automatic and automatic weapons (unless the cops are gonna carry them too).

 

I don't buy into global warming, but DO believe we have a responsibility to take care of the earth we were given. I am against animal testing and factory farming and certainly do not believe the government is looking out for my best interests where food/food safety are concerned.

 

I guess what really pushes me over the edge is that I am for the legalization (or at least decriminalization) of marijuana. I am NOT a smoker, but I don't see it as being more detrimental to our society than alcohol (and in some ways probably LESS so), and I think it has many benefits for people who are taking "legal" drugs (such as anxiety meds, etc). I hate that the government says, "OK," to chemical drugs that rot your organs, but, "NO," to something more natural like pot that could be a benefit to people. Again, I am NOT a smoker, and probably wouldn't be either way. Stuff like this just bothers me...

 

Okay, so now yall know the REAL me. Where do I fit in??

 

I'll sit on your bench. :D My only disagreement is that I would be a smoker if it were legal. ;)

[smrtmama]

My question is: how does someone who considers themselves very Liberal reconcile the two? Either you want big government and regulation in your life, or you don't.

 

Why? Why must it be an absolute that you want it 100% or not at all?

 

As a very far-left liberal, I believe the government has an important role to play in many areas, providing regulation and oversight, but in others, I feel its main role is to provide protection of individual rights.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

The one thing I always wonder, when I hear people wanting educational choices to be made at the local level is... do you really like your local government? :confused:

 

I honestly fear my mine, and they have guns too. :lol:

 

:iagree: I honestly believe that there is probably more corruption on the state and local levels. I know in several nearby counties there have been multiple indictments:001_huh:

 

OTOH, I have multiple loved ones working at various levels of the government who are honest, hard-working individuals:) After all, the government consists of our fellow Americans, friends, and family.

Edited March 17, 2010 by priscilla

[Audrey]

Well, all you have to look at is general conservative views regarding government interference in fetal stem cell research, abortion and reproductive technologies to see a major dilemma regarding how much government should interfere.

 

I'm socially liberal, fiscally conservative; pro gun-control, pro-choice, pro environmental protection, pro public health care, pro gay marriage. WRT to homeschooling: I am not pro testing or supervision of homeschoolers but I am pro social services keeping an eye on all children & families for cases of neglect and abuse.

 

 

:iagree: That's me, too.

[smrtmama]

:iagree: That's me, too.

 

Mostly me, too, except I'm not as fiscally conservative. I want to spend MORE in certain areas.

[patchfire]

The one thing I always wonder, when I hear people wanting educational choices to be made at the local level is... do you really like your local government? :confused:

 

I honestly fear my mine, and they have guns too. :lol:

 

:lol: Me too!!

[kelouis75]

I am not asking this question to start a fight, debate or anything other than to find legitimate answers.

 

I have a good friend who considers herself a Liberal (in the political sense), and she also is an unschooler. I have noticed that her political views are very large-government oriented (wants many government-paid-for services and much regulation), but she does not want the government in her life where education is concerned. She is against standardized testing, and the regulation of homeschooling.

 

My question is: how does someone who considers themselves very Liberal reconcile the two? Either you want big government and regulation in your life, or you don't. Can someone who feels this way please explain how they got there?

 

I consider myself a Conservative and am trying to better understand where others are coming from.

 

One could be fiscally conservative and socially liberal.... I consider myself fiscally liberal when it comes to social programs that would benefit the many citizens who would otherwise be deprived (head start, certain health care reforms, certain environmental protections, etc.) and level the playing field. I am fiscally conservative with issuses that I think would go against my religious or moral beliefs. I would not want my tax dollars to be spent on programs that would go against them.

 

However, I don't think the government has the right to meddle in the personal affairs of individuals...

[Audrey]

Mostly me, too, except I'm not as fiscally conservative. I want to spend MORE in certain areas.

 

 

I feel like our country (mine and hornblower's, that is) is doing a pretty good job of keeping spending in line. It is a conservative government at the moment, but they've kept social programs at even levels (for the most part) while reigning in spending in some other areas.

 

I'd like them to spend more on health care, some social programs, and literacy, but the money isn't there to do that -- at the moment. So, IMO, it would be irresponsible to throw money at a program when you don't have the money in the first place. In that regard, I'm fiscally conservative. I don't want them driving up the deficit and debt. I, personally, think they made a mistake reducing the GST. As it is, they'll probably end up putting it back up again at some point, and that will stink, as we've all got used to 5%. If they'd simply left it alone, we would be in a better position right now.

[cdrumm4448]

Why? Why must it be an absolute that you want it 100% or not at all?

 

As a very far-left liberal, I believe the government has an important role to play in many areas, providing regulation and oversight, but in others, I feel its main role is to provide protection of individual rights.

 

That's a very good question. The reason it keeps nagging at me is because my friend votes for very Liberal candidates who are for homeschool regulation (those that are against homeschool regulation are too Conservative for her, so I guess you pick your battles.) I tend to think that if homeschool non-regulation is a priority for her, then why doesn't she choose a candidate who supports that? It seems like she's talking out of both sides of her mouth.

[Shawna in Texas]

That's a very good question. The reason it keeps nagging at me is because my friend votes for very Liberal candidates who are for homeschool regulation (those that are against homeschool regulation are too Conservative for her, so I guess you pick your battles.) I tend to think that if homeschool non-regulation is a priority for her, then why doesn't she choose a candidate who supports that? It seems like she's talking out of both sides of her mouth.

 

In my case, down here in Texas, I don't vote for the candidate's stance on homeschooling (unless they were to make a huge issue of it, and if it were apart of their platform). They may say "Sure, I think there needs to be some regulation", but I don't think it would easily happen. The drop out rate in Texas is horrible, so they pretty much have their hands full as it is. If I felt there was a danger, it might sway my vote, but gosh, it would have to be a statewide homeschool panic. Maybe it's complacency, or maybe I take it for granted how easy I have it down here, but honestly, if Bill White becomes governor, I don't think it will ever be an issue.

 

As for your friend, I don't know. To me, it's not a contradiction because while I'm fairly liberal, I have crazy ideas about education. And sometimes those ideas contradict each other. :D Sometimes I don't see 'regulation' in everything. I don't understand why believing in marriage for all would make me want to put my kids in public school. I think lines have been drawn and prematurely.