Pouting

[Jean in Newcastle]

So, if your child was technically obeying you, but with a definite poutiness while doing so, do you call them on it? And what exactly do you tell them that you want? A cheerful countenance? A better attitude? Are we allowed to dictate our kid's attitudes? I just see a definite tendency that I know will have bad outcomes in adult character if allowed to continue.

 

Are there stories out there that address poutiness? I've never seen a section in the "Book of Virtues" on poutiness but perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place. What would be the actual virtue? Non- poutiness?!:001_smile:

[Wyndie]

:lurk5: 'cause if there's a book on the virtue of non-poutiness, I wanna know! My son is a champion pouter. :tongue_smilie:

 

ETA: I have on occassion, had my son re-do whatever he was supposed to be doing, only with a good attitude (or outward expression of it anyway). It doesn't always help but sometimes it does.

[BikeBookBread]

Unless the obedience is, "quickly, completely and with a cheerful heart" it isn't fully obedience. That being said, practically this is impossible. Kids are, well, sinful like adults, and we can't expect them to obey "Q, C, CH". I know I don't obey God this way much of the time. Part of my sin nature. It's part of the growing process, just like kids; it's part of THEIR growing process too.

 

All of that to say, I believe a bit of grace is important. This is a new thing for me, too...I've always been in the Tedd Tripp camp, but have recently begun to soften my views quite a bit.

 

So technically I don't have an answer! But I do have lots of :grouphug: because I'm right there with ya, today especially.

[bigdogs29906]

I say ignore any "junk" behavior. If they are doing what you ask, how much does it really matter "how" they are doing it?

It isn't a hill I would die on.

[Caribbean Queen]

So, if your child was technically obeying you, but with a definite poutiness while doing so, do you call them on it? And what exactly do you tell them that you want? A cheerful countenance? A better attitude? Are we allowed to dictate our kid's attitudes? :001_smile:

 

I tell my son to fix his face. :001_unsure: I never wanted to be that kind of mom. I didn't believe in dictating our kids attitudes. Then I had a crabby baby that turned into a negative little boy. Once when he was two, and not feeling well, he told me "No like___" and every single word he knew how to say! It took two hours! He told me he didn't like the fish in the ocean! Ha!

 

Yeah, so he gets crabby and pouty for no good reason, and I tried the "Please tell Mommy all about it and express your feelings" route and that was just ugly. I had to turn to the old fashioned, "Suck it up and say Yes, Ma'am" route. He is happier with that kind of parenting. I know it sounds creepy, but it is true. You might think, "He seems happier because he is pretending to be happy but he secretly hates you and the minute you drop him off at college he'll go buck wild and he'll only call you when he is in jail." But really, he is happier.

[abbeyej]

Yes, I consider eye-rolling, stomping, foot-dragging, etc, to come under the heading of "rudeness", and I don't stand for it. I can't dictate the way my child *feels* about following through on an instruction, and I might say, "I'm sorry you feel this way, but you still have to ___ without stomping/slamming/growling/whatever"...

 

I also occasionally talk to them about how the way we act *impacts* the way we feel and the way we interact with our surroundings. You may not be thrilled at having to make the bed, but foot-dragging on the way there, eye-rolling, draping yourself across the bed and generally giving vent to all of that self-pity and feelings of ill-use simply make you feel *worse*. It's wallowing. And while it may be annoying to those around you, the only one it truly *hurts* is you...

 

There are times when we're sad. Times when we need to cry. Times when we're furious. And times when it's appropriate to express those emotions in one way or another.

 

But pouting? Rarely appropriate and rarely makes anyone feel better.

 

As to stories, there are certainly good ones about protagonists who face adversity with a cheerful heart or bravery or even just stoicism. (How about Sara Crewe in A Little Princess?) There are others about protagonists who gain the maturity not to feel sorry for themselves but to look for solutions to their problems or ways to help others in more pitiable situations. (Betsy in Understood Betsy is one...) Or characters who learn that their complaints and self-pity have only hurt themselves, and by letting go of those traits, they're able to live life more fully than before. (Perhaps Eustace in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader.)

[Rosie_0801]

I used to get into trouble for pouting, so carefully cultivated a blank face. Guess what? I got into trouble for that too. Smiling graciously when in trouble always seemed an unreasonable expectation to me.

 

Pouting is fine, thinking nasty thoughts is fine. Throwing things, slapping Mamma or pushing baby brother over are not fine. Can you tell I'm dealing with a toddler? Pouting sounds lovely!

 

Rosie

[BakersDozen]

If they are doing what you ask, how much does it really matter "how" they are doing it?

 

I respectfully disagree. :) The "how" is, IMO, most important and should not be ignored. If I see the pout I stop the dc and ask them what they are thinking, what is going on in their head/heart? If they are upset, why? I mimic their pout back to them and ask if that looks like a heart that is cheerfully obeying. I treat pouting like a mini-tantrum in that I deal with it immediately and never let it go undealt with.

 

I tell my son to fix his face.

My dc hear this as well.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Unless the obedience is, "quickly, completely and with a cheerful heart" it isn't fully obedience. That being said, practically this is impossible. Kids are, well, sinful like adults, and we can't expect them to obey "Q, C, CH". I know I don't obey God this way much of the time. Part of my sin nature. It's part of the growing process, just like kids; it's part of THEIR growing process too.

 

All of that to say, I believe a bit of grace is important. This is a new thing for me, too...I've always been in the Tedd Tripp camp, but have recently begun to soften my views quite a bit.

 

So technically I don't have an answer! But I do have lots of :grouphug: because I'm right there with ya, today especially.

 

I believe in extending grace but I also see how these habits of thought get entrenched. Thus my dilemma. . .

 

Yes, I consider eye-rolling, stomping, foot-dragging, etc, to come under the heading of "rudeness", and I don't stand for it. I can't dictate the way my child *feels* about following through on an instruction, and I might say, "I'm sorry you feel this way, but you still have to ___ without stomping/slamming/growling/whatever"...

 

I also occasionally talk to them about how the way we act *impacts* the way we feel and the way we interact with our surroundings. You may not be thrilled at having to make the bed, but foot-dragging on the way there, eye-rolling, draping yourself across the bed and generally giving vent to all of that self-pity and feelings of ill-use simply make you feel *worse*. It's wallowing. And while it may be annoying to those around you, the only one it truly *hurts* is you...

 

There are times when we're sad. Times when we need to cry. Times when we're furious. And times when it's appropriate to express those emotions in one way or another.

 

But pouting? Rarely appropriate and rarely makes anyone feel better.

 

As to stories, there are certainly good ones about protagonists who face adversity with a cheerful heart or bravery or even just stoicism. (How about Sara Crewe in A Little Princess?) There are others about protagonists who gain the maturity not to feel sorry for themselves but to look for solutions to their problems or ways to help others in more pitiable situations. (Betsy in Understood Betsy is one...) Or characters who learn that their complaints and self-pity have only hurt themselves, and by letting go of those traits, they're able to live life more fully than before. (Perhaps Eustace in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader.)

 

Love the stories you referenced! This pouting I'm talking about is not as blatant as what you mentioned. It is more the trembling lip, the sagging head, the heavy sigh as they slowly go to obey. OK - I guess that means foot dragging, doesn't it!

 

I used to get into trouble for pouting, so carefully cultivated a blank face. Guess what? I got into trouble for that too. Smiling graciously when in trouble always seemed an unreasonable expectation to me.

 

 

 

See - this is the other part of my dilemma. I got in trouble A LOT in boarding school for having a bad attitude. In fact, I got put on probation for having a bad attitude (that and for having "low self esteem". I know how false my pasted on smile was and how it just taught me to lie to the powers that be. I'm much more concerned with what is in the heart. But I can't dictate the heart, you know?

 

I respectfully disagree. :) The "how" is, IMO, most important and should not be ignored. If I see the pout I stop the dc and ask them what they are thinking, what is going on in their head/heart? If they are upset, why? I mimic their pout back to them and ask if that looks like a heart that is cheerfully obeying. I treat pouting like a mini-tantrum in that I deal with it immediately and never let it go undealt with.

 

 

 

I do quietly ask at times if they need to "tell God their naughty things" (how we explain confession of sin.) But I don't feel like that is something I could ever, ever require them to do.

[BMW]

I have a pouter... his pout is for attention and to display to others how unhappy he is (because he didn't get what he wanted or because he has been told to do something he didn't want to do). Most of the time I give him a time limit, such as, "You have 1 minute to think about what is going on and change the expression on your face." If he doesn't, he is excused to his bedroom until he decides to change the attitude and have a better look on his face.

 

I have to aks myself, in the beginning, "Can he go to his room right now for an indefinate time?" Because, if I need him to get school done, I am not willing to sacrifice the school day indefinately for his expression. In that event I would give him the same instructions and if he doesn't I begin to take away bedtimes, priviledges, etc. for that day.

 

I will say that I have been taking this approach for over a year and there has been HUGE improvement. His countenance used to be angry or pouting 75% of the time... now it is more like 20% and correlates to lack of sleep... :)

[mom4him]

So, if your child was technically obeying you, but with a definite poutiness while doing so, do you call them on it? And what exactly do you tell them that you want? A cheerful countenance? A better attitude? Are we allowed to dictate our kid's attitudes? I just see a definite tendency that I know will have bad outcomes in adult character if allowed to continue.

 

Are there stories out there that address poutiness? I've never seen a section in the "Book of Virtues" on poutiness but perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place. What would be the actual virtue? Non- poutiness?!:001_smile:

I believe it depends on the age of the child but in a school aged child I think it is a heart attitude that needs to be address.

Trust me I deal with bad attitudes with my youngest ALL the time. I don't want him to 'put on a happy face for me' I want him to come to a realization that our attitude can make the difference between night and day as to how things go and the out come.

The Bible talks to us about a cheerful heart. That is something that many times needs to be cultivated on the inside more than the outside.

We all get frustrated, sad, upset etc once in a while. This is not what I am talking about. What I am talking about is carrying that bad attitude around with us like a badge on our sleeve to be flipped out and used on others whenever we choose.

[Hen]

I almost always address it, around our house, obedience means obeying all the way, right away and with a happy heart. So, doing it but with a pout or with stomping is not obeying.

 

that saying, I do try to give grace, once in a great while I might let it go..other times I will let it go for the moment, let us both cool off and then find a quiet place to address it with love and concern and admonishment, it is rude and questions my authority. Mostly I nail them on it. or Dad does. We really strive for a home where everyone feels loved and safe, an atmosphere of eye-rolling, back-talk and fits is not lovely and not one I want to cultivate.

 

looking out for the future, I figure train it out now, before we hit the teen years. :glare:

[Jean in Newcastle]

I believe it depends on the age of the child but in a school aged child I think it is a heart attitude that needs to be address.

Trust me I deal with bad attitudes with my youngest ALL the time. I don't want him to 'put on a happy face for me' I want him to come to a realization that our attitude can make the difference between night and day as to how things go and the out come.

The Bible talks to us about a cheerful heart. That is something that many times needs to be cultivated on the inside more than the outside.

We all get frustrated, sad, upset etc once in a while. This is not what I am talking about. What I am talking about is carrying that bad attitude around with us like a badge on our sleeve to be flipped out and used on others whenever we choose.

 

Yes. This is what I think I want. But how do you address it? With quiet talks when things aren't heated? By telling them to get rid of the bad atttude? How do you address the heart attitude without making them "put on a happy face" for us?

[jld]

I don't like it, either, and it's a "check" on the command I have issued. We need to sit down, talk about why there is pouting, and I have to honestly look at the command I've given, and see if there is another way I could have handled the situation. Often I am not considering things from the pouter's perspective, yet I have (as the parent) all the power to make the pouter do what I want. While this might get what I want done, it will not help me build a relationship with the pouter, which is the main thing I want to do as a parent.

 

I try to say something like, "How do you see this?" and then genuinely listen and try to understand his perspective. Then I try to explain my perspective, and we try to see how we can work out a plan we both can live with (a la Barbara Coloroso).

 

Sometimes we can't. Sometimes I really want my way on something, and that's just how it is. But I really have to be sure about this, and have peace in my heart that what I really want is truly best for both of us, and trust that the child will eventually see that.

[Rosie_0801]

We really strive for a home where everyone feels loved and safe, an atmosphere of eye-rolling, back-talk and fits is not lovely and not one I want to cultivate.

 

 

Not picking on you, but since you seem to share the opinion my mother did, you might be able to shed some light! How exactly does one feel loved and safe when one is not allowed to feel negative emotions? Well, I was allowed to *feel* negative emotions, but not actually show them in any way. That made me feel like I had to walk on eggshells, and that isn't a pleasant way to live life.

 

Rosie

[Hen]

I'm still working this out myself, but... it involves already having a tie with my children, they know I love them, we spend lots of time doing neat things together, soo I think they want to keep our relationship on the up and up. And yes, I can see that when they are young, it doesn't look fair. They are allowed to not agree or not like something or to feel picked on, but they are not allowed to treat anyone badly through acting out or speaking in a mean/ugly way. No one likes to be treated that way, even among peers- ugly speaking makes no one feel good, playtime quickly deteriorates.

 

I do seek them out after they are called on about the pout/foot dragging, and make sure we are okay and that they understand why I called them out. This was important the last time my 10 ds got into trouble. He was not happy, and he went in his room and pouted, and we let him alone to deal with those feelings, be real with them, whatever. But, when I went in to talk about it, he was feeling unfairly punished for not being able to physically do something we had not asked him to do. I clarified why he was in trouble, it was his really smart answer- back he gave me, not failing to do something quickly.

 

As my kids get older, they are given room to disagree and even appeal for a different decision or ask to complete a job later for a good reason, but it is an organic relationship thing.

 

I don't feel picked on at all, don't worry.

I know we have as many different pictures of parenting as we have posters.

:lurk5:

[Slartibartfast]

 

ETA: I have on occassion, had my son re-do whatever he was supposed to be doing, only with a good attitude (or outward expression of it anyway). It doesn't always help but sometimes it does.

 

I wouldn't really for pouting but for being grouchy at me I have dd redo it.

[SonshineLearner]

I have no idea what you believe Scripture wise... But we do an imitation of the Steve Green's cd.... that sings the scripture.... "Do everything without complaining... without ar-gu-ing... so that you may be...." And usually he'll pop out of it.... Of course, this is my 6 year old. With my 11 year old... you just wanna pop her upside the head.... but I don't think it'd work. Obedience is a matter of the heart.... working it's way out by your actions.

 

:-)

Edited January 13, 2010 by NayfiesMama

[Pretty in Pink]

When my kids pout I try to just give them a little hug or ruffle their hair and say something like, "You are excused to your room now; sit on your bed until you feel like cooperating." I am trying more and more these days to maintain a cheerful countenance myself as I deal with these challenges, not that I am always successful, but I'm working on it.

[8circles]

When my kids pout I try to just give them a little hug or ruffle their hair and say something like, "You are excused to your room now; sit on your bed until you feel like cooperating." I am trying more and more these days to maintain a cheerful countenance myself as I deal with these challenges, not that I am always successful, but I'm working on it.

 

:iagree:I think that teaching through example is the best way to do this. IME insisting on complete obedience in this way (must be cheerful, etc) only teaches kids to keep things inside.

[Slartibartfast]

When my kids pout I try to just give them a little hug or ruffle their hair and say something like, "You are excused to your room now; sit on your bed until you feel like cooperating." I am trying more and more these days to maintain a cheerful countenance myself as I deal with these challenges, not that I am always successful, but I'm working on it.

 

I need to work on a cheerful countenance. :blushing:

[KrissiK]

This is an issue we've had with my 6 year old son for a while now and I'm at my wits end. He doesn't just pout - he wails, fusses, gets a sour look on his face - when he gets in trouble, when he's asked to do something he doesn't want to do, when something happens he perceives as "not fair". We were outside once and he was naughty so I sent him to sit down by the garage on a time-out and I swear he carried on like I was beating him with a tire iron. I was afraid the neighbors would report us. I don't know what to do. Right now I send him to his room for a while, telling him that he can pout there, we don't want to see it. I hate the way he acts, it is entirely uncalled for and totally disrespectful, but I don't know how to squelch it either.

[Amy loves Bud]

Well, that shows up on occasion and I write it off to frustration. I tell them to step away from the work and clear their heads then come back to it.

 

If it were on-going, however, I think I would have a discussion about attitude. Is there something underlying it? Does he hate a curriculum, feel bad about his performance? Would he like more control of his work schedule? See if you can work with him to make it better and you have a valuable lesson that sometimes we have to do things we don't always like, but we don't have to sit there and be miserable about it if we don't want to.

 

If I didn't see improvement, I might make him wait to do the work until he could do it with a decent (not perfect) attitude. Of course he wouldn't be able to do anything else fun until the schoolwork was done. I think a day or two of that might cure it.

[mom4him]

Yes. This is what I think I want. But how do you address it? With quiet talks when things aren't heated? By telling them to get rid of the bad atttude? How do you address the heart attitude without making them "put on a happy face" for us?

Well, with my ds I try to talk to him at a time when things aren't 'heated' My emotions don't get involved as much and he is able to listen. I used to think I had to deal with it right then and there but it seemed like I never got anywhere with him.

Just recently I have been praying that we both have an open soft heart that will lead us into the valley of peace. I have been praying this in my quiet time in the mornings, when we start our school day I make it a part of our prayer and when I pray with him while tucking him in at night.

I have also been trying to talk to him about what a difference our day is when we all keep a good attitude.

I will also point out to him if he starts down the bad attitude road that it is a choice.

I don't ever want my kids to put a face on for me. If they have a legitimate concern or complaint I want to hear it. If they have decided they are not going to like something because they don't want to do it, if they have decided they are going to make the school day rough, then that is what needs to be corrected.

We have done many things to help our son. Exteme diet change, removed all the chemicals from his environment that is possible, he sees a chiropractor and receives NAET treatments. These have all helped tremendously. I believe it is time he takes what he has and begins to be lead down that strait and narrow path that our Loving Heavenly Father talks about.

Well, this got way longer than I planned but this is how I have been handling it since the first of last week and I am seeing change.

Oh, one other thing. I have been working very hard at responding not reacting.

[Jean in Newcastle]

This has been so helpful to type out and to hear all of your opinions and experiences. I've realized just tonight as I've thought more in depth about this that she is doing it to manipulate me (whether consciously or not, I don't know.) I think that since she's always seemed sensitive, I've treated her with more kid gloves than I did her brother. Her brother has always responded with much more straight forward temper tantrums!

[mom4him]

This has been so helpful to type out and to hear all of your opinions and experiences. I've realized just tonight as I've thought more in depth about this that she is doing it to manipulate me (whether consciously or not, I don't know.) I think that since she's always seemed sensitive, I've treated her with more kid gloves than I did her brother. Her brother has always responded with much more straight forward temper tantrums!

Jean, You may really be on to something here.

Our two youngest are adopted and our son goes through times of being extremely controlling. Many times the attitudes are a part of that.

[Laura Corin]

If it's a physical pout, in this house it gets kissed. We all dissolve in giggles and the poutiness is over.

 

Laura

[Peela]

I prefer to let the kids have their own feelings and not demand they obey on that level, generally speaking. I dont know if you can healthily force a child to be happy about being punished, honestly. It probably disconnects them from their true feelings. I don't care how grumpy they are, if they are doing their chores, it's not a problem. Anger is ok here, grumpiness is ok here, but thats probably because dh and I have both done years of therapy learning to get in touch with our feelings after childhoods where were werent allowed to feel or show any negative emotions. Negative emotions are ok here. We don't feel its morally wrong to have anger- its natural.

Whats not ok is dumping them or manipulating people with them. But just seeing through that is usually enough- and as Laura says, kissing can work just as well to diffuse such emotions as a whole negative tirade at the child.

And...we dont buy into them, either. Sometimes dd, who is a fairly obedient child, gets sulky. Mostly, we ignore it, tease her, empathise, and if necessary, tell her firmly we won't be manipulated. She cant do it for long though. She's naturally too happy.

Ds however can do the bins, the dishes and anything else he has been reminded to do several times, while emitting a tirade of complaints. We just cheerily ignore it. The danger with him is engaging with him over it.

I think there is a lot of childhood and teen stuff that can be dealt with with humour and light heartedness and extra affection, rather than extra discipline.

And who doesnt feel pouty sometimes?

[smrtmama]

So, if your child was technically obeying you, but with a definite poutiness while doing so, do you call them on it? And what exactly do you tell them that you want? A cheerful countenance? A better attitude? Are we allowed to dictate our kid's attitudes? I just see a definite tendency that I know will have bad outcomes in adult character if allowed to continue.

 

Are there stories out there that address poutiness? I've never seen a section in the "Book of Virtues" on poutiness but perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place. What would be the actual virtue? Non- poutiness?!:001_smile:

 

 

 

No, I wouldn't. My children have a right to their emotions and opinions, as long as they aren't being blatantly rude. I think expecting a "cheerful countenance" all the time is unreasonable and controlling.

 

If there's "hmph"ing or muttered comments or slamming things around, I'll tell him to stop. If he's slouching and flailing around, I'll tell him to stop. If he just looks PO'd? That's his business. I don't see why I should jump to intervene. His facial expression doesn't control MY behavior.

[Caribbean Queen]

My son has a dimple and I hardly ever see it. He isn't smiley. I'm not smiley either. I don't require him to smile. Fake smiles are ugly anyway.

 

 

But sometimes I think he uses pouting to try to make me feel bad and then let him get his way. It is tiring to deal with someone who pouts about everything. I think he wants to wear me down. Like when I say, "Brush your teeth." and he is like

:confused1::sad::nopity::crying:

Good grief, we don't we do this every day? Toughen up, boy!

[Parrothead]

I prefer to let the kids have their own feelings and not demand they obey on that level, generally speaking. I dont know if you can healthily force a child to be happy about being punished, honestly. It probably disconnects them from their true feelings. I don't care how grumpy they are, if they are doing their chores, it's not a problem. Anger is ok here, grumpiness is ok here, but thats probably because dh and I have both done years of therapy learning to get in touch with our feelings after childhoods where were werent allowed to feel or show any negative emotions. Negative emotions are ok here. We don't feel its morally wrong to have anger- its natural.

Whats not ok is dumping them or manipulating people with them. But just seeing through that is usually enough- and as Laura says, kissing can work just as well to diffuse such emotions as a whole negative tirade at the child.

And...we dont buy into them, either. Sometimes dd, who is a fairly obedient child, gets sulky. Mostly, we ignore it, tease her, empathise, and if necessary, tell her firmly we won't be manipulated. She cant do it for long though. She's naturally too happy.

Ds however can do the bins, the dishes and anything else he has been reminded to do several times, while emitting a tirade of complaints. We just cheerily ignore it. The danger with him is engaging with him over it.

I think there is a lot of childhood and teen stuff that can be dealt with with humour and light heartedness and extra affection, rather than extra discipline.

And who doesnt feel pouty sometimes?

:iagree:That is how we feel about it. It is okay to be angry. Who has never been angry? But there is a big difference between being angry and having an ugly face and being angry and being mean with it. An ugly face, I don't have to look at. Acting on the anger gets the same treatment as a temper fit, which is essentially the same thing.

[i.love.lucy]

Obedience is a matter of the heart.... working it's way out by your actions.

:iagree:What is in our heart is what comes out. This is pointed out to us in the bible over and over. I am not asking anyone to plaster a fake smile on their face, but we do require them to sit in a time out in their room and think about their attitude and adjust it. When it seems like they can obey with a better attitude (not quite to cheerful yet) then they can resume. I want to cultivate a spirit of contentment and I know when I am down and feeling sorry for myself, and grumpy with the world, it doesn't help me to act it out. It does help me to have some quiet reflection.

I've realized just tonight as I've thought more in depth about this that she is doing it to manipulate me (whether consciously or not, I don't know.) I think that since she's always seemed sensitive, I've treated her with more kid gloves than I did her brother.

This is my dd too. She doesn't throw fits or have tantrums, she pulls the pout and "tear-up" :crying: over the injustice of being reminded to empty the dishwasher or at the slightest correction of behavior. Her favorite line? To wail "it seems like you're mad at me!!!" WAAAAAAA! Uh, yep.

 

Like when I say, "Brush your teeth." and he is like

:confused1::sad::nopity::crying:

Good grief, we don't we do this every day? Toughen up, boy!

:lol::lol:

[Garga]

I have to say this whole issue confuses me.

 

If we are all cleaning together and I'll say to the 4 yo, "Please put the Star Wars toys in their bin," he'll scrunch his face into this horrible scrunch, and then stomp as loudly as he can to the toys, pick them up and throw them as hard as he can in the bin.

 

According to some people, I'm supposed to allow this? I haven't been.

 

I've been making him start over, where he'll have to walk back across the room without stomping, take out the toy he threw and place it gently in the bin.

 

Would those who say we should be able to express negative emotions allow that? I mean, he stomps and shakes the furniture in the house, and his face is so scrunched it turns red, and he's throwing as hard as he can.

 

Or, do I have him re-do his job without the stomping and throwing, but allow the face?

 

Really--honestly. For those who allow the expression of negative emotions, does it include the stomping, throwing and turning red?? We're not talking about a frown here.

 

And if I give him a kiss or try to "gentle" him out of it, it doesn't work. The kiss and rumple on the hair will work when he's a little calmer, but when he's in that initial snit, it doesn't work.

 

Maybe what he's doing isn't what we're talking about. I guess my 4yo is having a temper tantrum and we're only talking about a pout. Maybe that's why I'm confused.

 

When my 7yo used to have these types of fits, I'd make him re-do until he was doing it nicely. Now that he's 7, we don't have these pouts or fits very often at all. I can't remember a time when I made him re-do things.

 

Ok--I guess I've answered my own question. The 4yo is having a temper tantrum, not a pout, so I guess it's handled differently.

[BMW]

I tend to agree with BOTH sides here... I totally get allowing a child to experience and feel anger, frustration, poutful feelings. Yet, I intervene more with one particular son who USES those feelings to manipulate others. He WANTS to put on a show for attention and to try to get his way and that isn't okay with me. Instead, he has to learn to use words... "Mom, I don't like it that I have to clean the room by myself right now..." Since he is about to turn 11, I don't think this is unrealistic (I would think so for a 6 year old). This boy used to use his facial expressions and attitudes ALL the time when out in public to get attention from others and has even been phony with pleasant looks and fake attitudes to get others to give him attention (being a "suck up", so to speak) and that is not the kind of person I want him to be, so I teach him another way... I hope my teaching sticks! Like I mentioned previously, I have seen a LOT of improvement over this past year.

 

Oh, and when I tell him that he has one minute to get that "look" off of his face, I do not require a smile or a pleasant look I simply require if he is going to be with us that his look is not nasty. Neutral looks are fine... sad and unhappy looks are fine... angry looks are fine, but not to be used to manipulate and control or to glare at another person (that is what I am most often correcting... very hateful glares)...

 

I often say, the Bible doesn't tell us to not be angry, it says to be angry and sin not... God knows we will be frustrated and have anger. He just expects us to not sin with that. Sinning in anger is something we all have a problem with, so there are times it has to be covered in grace and love. But, when there is an ongoing show in a child for the purposes already stated, I intervene...

[Parrothead]

Or, do I have him re-do his job without the stomping and throwing, but allow the face?

 

 

I have done it just like that. I can't make dd not be angry, but I can make her respect my authority and not have a fit.

[LauraGB]

When my kids pout I try to just give them a little hug or ruffle their hair and say something like, "You are excused to your room now; sit on your bed until you feel like cooperating." I am trying more and more these days to maintain a cheerful countenance myself as I deal with these challenges, not that I am always successful, but I'm working on it.

 

Depending on the situation, I do one of two things. This, which Pretty in Pink suggests is one. The other, if the sitution permits, is to dramatically make fun of how "terrible it is for them" or "how horribly put-upon they are" until they smile or laugh or tell me to go away with a happy face.

 

I know that sounds like really bad parenting, but it almost always works - provided its just an attention seeking pout. Just helping them see how ridiculous pouting is by being just as ridiculous back has been helpful here - we all would rather laugh than cry. Obviously, there would be serveral instances of pouting where that would not be an acceptable way to address the issue.

[Meriwether]

I haven't read the other posts. For us obedience is immediate, cheerful, and complete. If it isn't one of the three, they haven't obeyed.

 

We don't always do a good job with this; both boys are having issues right now with both immediate and cheerful. It does help to have a standard that they are supposed to attain, though.

[johnandtinagilbert]

We consider pouting and fit throwing talking back. Our approach is, "Stop talking back with your body." Then, we institute an appropriate response, like, "If you can't control your attitude, then you should spend some time in your bed, so your attitude does not offend, or get you in more trouble. You are welcome to join us when you have a joyful heart and are able to respect everyone else in the house."

 

I honestly think that whining and pouting will grow into children that argue and curse at their parents. Waaaa waaaa may be screw you! later on.

 

hth,

[Jean in Newcastle]

I prefer to let the kids have their own feelings and not demand they obey on that level, generally speaking. I dont know if you can healthily force a child to be happy about being punished, honestly. It probably disconnects them from their true feelings. I don't care how grumpy they are, if they are doing their chores, it's not a problem. Anger is ok here, grumpiness is ok here, but thats probably because dh and I have both done years of therapy learning to get in touch with our feelings after childhoods where were werent allowed to feel or show any negative emotions. Negative emotions are ok here. We don't feel its morally wrong to have anger- its natural.

Whats not ok is dumping them or manipulating people with them. But just seeing through that is usually enough- and as Laura says, kissing can work just as well to diffuse such emotions as a whole negative tirade at the child.

And...we dont buy into them, either. Sometimes dd, who is a fairly obedient child, gets sulky. Mostly, we ignore it, tease her, empathise, and if necessary, tell her firmly we won't be manipulated. She cant do it for long though. She's naturally too happy.

Ds however can do the bins, the dishes and anything else he has been reminded to do several times, while emitting a tirade of complaints. We just cheerily ignore it. The danger with him is engaging with him over it.

I think there is a lot of childhood and teen stuff that can be dealt with with humour and light heartedness and extra affection, rather than extra discipline.

And who doesnt feel pouty sometimes?

 

I agree most of this but have a questions about one thing. See, I can tease my dd into a smile again, pretty easily. But I'm wondering - aren't I just manipulating her back?

 

I tend to agree with BOTH sides here... I totally get allowing a child to experience and feel anger, frustration, poutful feelings. Yet, I intervene more with one particular son who USES those feelings to manipulate others. He WANTS to put on a show for attention and to try to get his way and that isn't okay with me. Instead, he has to learn to use words... "Mom, I don't like it that I have to clean the room by myself right now..." Since he is about to turn 11, I don't think this is unrealistic (I would think so for a 6 year old). This boy used to use his facial expressions and attitudes ALL the time when out in public to get attention from others and has even been phony with pleasant looks and fake attitudes to get others to give him attention (being a "suck up", so to speak) and that is not the kind of person I want him to be, so I teach him another way... I hope my teaching sticks! Like I mentioned previously, I have seen a LOT of improvement over this past year.

 

Oh, and when I tell him that he has one minute to get that "look" off of his face, I do not require a smile or a pleasant look I simply require if he is going to be with us that his look is not nasty. Neutral looks are fine... sad and unhappy looks are fine... angry looks are fine, but not to be used to manipulate and control or to glare at another person (that is what I am most often correcting... very hateful glares)...

 

I often say, the Bible doesn't tell us to not be angry, it says to be angry and sin not... God knows we will be frustrated and have anger. He just expects us to not sin with that. Sinning in anger is something we all have a problem with, so there are times it has to be covered in grace and love. But, when there is an ongoing show in a child for the purposes already stated, I intervene...

 

This spoke to me. I worked very hard with ds who has such rages (obviously not an acceptable expression of his angry feelings) to acknowledge his anger with words and not screams, hits etc. What frustrates me about dd is that she pouts instead of talking about the situation. Sometimes the situation is non-negotiable. For health reasons we have to brush our teeth. But other times, I might have forgotten that I had promised mac and cheese for lunch. It would have so much more direct and pleasant if she just quietly reminded me instead of dissolving into pouty tears. So, I guess I need to work hard with her on using her words too!

[mom4him]

I don't think it is a matter of 'making' them be happy and hiding their emotions but rather nurturing a good/better/happy attitude in them.

I believe that it is at this stage that our children are establishing habits that will either carry them through life victoriously or with a down, depressed attitude.

Let me give you an example, I am on FB and one of my 'friends' is ALWAYS complaining about having to go to work or her job. She struggled long and hard to get the education to do this job and yet she complains about it all the time. One day I finally asked her if she liked her job and her answer was, "Oh, Yes, I love my job." I am thinking, "HMMM, why not be thankful for it then instead of complaining."

This is something that is so prevalent in our time. To never be happy with our words about anything. As a society we complain about our home, our kids, our husband, our sibblings, our job, where we have to shop, I mean the list is never ending. Truth be told most of us wouldn't change all that much but we still complain. It is a habit and for many it is a habit that has been there from childhood. It is one I have determined I am going to break in my life and I want to nurture a positive attitude in my dc. The Bible(this is the perspective I come from) talks about what we confess with our mouth and believe in our heart. I know that it is talking about accepting Jesus. I believe this also applies in other areas of our lives. If we confess something long enough it will become a part of our heart and no longer just a confession but how we are really perceiving it.

Again, if there is a legitimate problem they need to know they can voice it in a respectful way but if it is just dissatisfaction, that is different.

[Rosy]

I expect my kids to follow my directions cheerfully, and I will correct a bad attitude. When I ask them to do something I require a "yes, mom" and if there is anger (or unwillingness) in their voice, I'll ask them to "say it again with a good attitude". At that point, if the attitude still hasn't improved, they get to go to their rooms until we can talk about it.

 

A negative attitude usually has ungratefulness at its root. In our house, most of what the kids get angry or pouty about is 1) having to do schoolwork they don't want to do, 2) having to do chores they don't want to do, or 3) not getting along with a sibling. With the first two, if they can't correct their countenance, they'll get a talking to about how learning to work hard is important for all the things they want to do, and how contributing to our home is something everyone has to do (vs. mom doing all the work). Usually they respond to that. If not, they get extended time outs and we go through "For Instruction In Righteousness" together until they see their sin. Actually, that only happens with DD9. At some point, she understands her wrong attitude and asks for forgiveness. DS7 comes on a lot stronger, but he also needs time to calm down before he understands what he did wrong...at which point he will usually apologize on his own.

 

I do think it's important to address bad attitudes. My kids know they can express negative opinions, but when it's in response to a direction from me or their dad, it's not an appropriate time. They need to do what they're told and then we can talk about it later.

 

Having a grumpy day is different. If it's out of character for the kid and they're not responding to anything in particular, I'll try to give them some space. I have my grumpy days, too. :)

[BikeBookBread]

I believe in extending grace but I also see how these habits of thought get entrenched. Thus my dilemma. . .

 

 

Please don't think that I believe the poutiness is just to be swept under the rug with with an excuse of "grace"...not at all! We do address it. Often :glare:. But I just believe that there is a point that we do have to realize that we as parents can only do so much to point to the the sin problem in their heart...that God has to do the real work. We can't force a good attitude out of a heart that is ugly. I don't want to force my child into lying, either (pretending to have a cheerful attitude while they are SEETHING inside...this is NOT right).

 

Also, sometimes a softening of MY heart (grace) towards the poor attitude helps my daughters soften THEIR hearts, too. They see an attitude change in me, and thus, change their attitudes. Not always, but often.

[8circles]

Please don't think that I believe the poutiness is just to be swept under the rug with with an excuse of "grace"...not at all! We do address it. Often :glare:. But I just believe that there is a point that we do have to realize that we as parents can only do so much to point to the the sin problem in their heart...that God has to do the real work. We can't force a good attitude out of a heart that is ugly. I don't want to force my child into lying, either (pretending to have a cheerful attitude while they are SEETHING inside...this is NOT right).

 

Also, sometimes a softening of MY heart (grace) towards the poor attitude helps my daughters soften THEIR hearts, too. They see an attitude change in me, and thus, change their attitudes. Not always, but often.

 

:iagree:I can & do instruct often but I can't force their heart to change. I don't want them pretending their heart has changed if it hasn't.

[dragons in the flower bed]

I say ignore any "junk" behavior. If they are doing what you ask, how much does it really matter "how" they are doing it?

It isn't a hill I would die on.

 

I think there are two reasons it matters.

 

First, not everyone develops naturally the capacity to make themselves happy or to change their attitude about a situation. Sometimes it takes coaching. If they aren't coached repetitively in this skill of looking on the bright side, they may end up needing antidepressants as teens and adults. My source on that is a great book called The Science of Parenting.

 

Secondly, this kind of lying -- faking gratitude, acting submissive -- is necessary to get along in many many social situations. It's not really harmful to kids or anyone else, and the earlier kids are in the habit of acting grateful, the easier life will go for them.

[KrissiK]

I think there is a big difference between expressing anger (at a situation, at one's self, at another person) and having a bad attitude as a general default setting when you're asked to do something. Sure, I have no problem with my child expressing anger (in an appropriate manner) if someone else breaks their toy, etc. However, it is indeed an expression of selfishness and ingratitude when a child is asked to do simple chores, (clean their room, set the table, etc.) and they throw a fit. My oldest does this (he's 6) and I am so frustrated. I have scolded, ignored, spanked, timed-out, given consequences, lectured till I'm blue in the face, talked calmly and rationally, explained.... and this child continues in the delusion that he should and has the right to do whatever he wants whenever he wants and no one has the right to tell him to do anything.

[HeatherM2]

I tell my children that there will always be things in life they don't want to do and that they need to practice changing their thoughts (not dwelling on the negative). So I usually say "change your thoughts" or "quick, tell me two things your thankful for". If I keep it light and upbeat they usually get over the pout quickly. If I see eye rolling, I remind them that it is disrespectful and if I see it again (insert punishment here).

[Rosie_0801]

I have to say this whole issue confuses me.

If we are all cleaning together and I'll say to the 4 yo, "Please put the Star Wars toys in their bin," he'll scrunch his face into this horrible scrunch, and then stomp as loudly as he can to the toys, pick them up and throw them as hard as he can in the bin.

According to some people, I'm supposed to allow this? I haven't been.

Would those who say we should be able to express negative emotions allow that?

 

Nope. Like you said, that's a tantrum, not a pout. Maybe you need work on one thing at a time though? In my opinion, the stomping is the worst part, if it's actually shaking the walls, so perhaps start with that, then when he's ironed out that habit, you can work on the throwing. If it was my stuff he was throwing, it'd be a higher priority, but if he wants to throw his own things, it'll serve him right if he breaks it.

 

Rosie- Thinking of Mrs Piggle Wiggle, heheh

[Peela]

I agree most of this but have a questions about one thing. See, I can tease my dd into a smile again, pretty easily. But I'm wondering - aren't I just manipulating her back?

 

 

Yes, you are. We all manipulate all the time. I think sometimes we just want our kids to know they are loved even if they are pouty and we cajole them back to a happy place. But ultimately, it is manipulation and often reflects our own discomfort at having those feelings ourselves, and wanting to not have them.

[kathkath]

You can require them to smile. Hard to pout with a smile lol. We do that in our house:

"Obey right away, all the way, with a smile on your face." Of course our kids also earn stickers right now for each time they do that, and for each 10 they earn they can visit the treasure box. So far so good. No smile no sticker.

[Caribbean Queen]

Ds however can do the bins, the dishes and anything else he has been reminded to do several times, while emitting a tirade of complaints. We just cheerily ignore it. The danger with him is engaging with him over it.

 

But don't you dread telling him to do something since you know he will pout? Doesn't it wear you down? Isn't it embarrasing when he pouts in public. Don't people have a look on their face that says, "He is a brat." That is what happened with my pouter. I loved him but I was not enjoying being around him. :( A previous poster said that she thinks "waa waa" turns into "screw you" as kids get older. I was afraid of that happening too.