W is sometimes a vowel????

[Mom0012]

I'm using CLE LA with my daughter and in the spelling section of her next lesson, it says that W is sometimes a vowel. For example, it is a vowel when it is with "a" as in "aw". I have never heard this before and after using SWR for a number of years, I really don't want my daughter thinking W is sometimes a vowel. Has anyone else come across this and what do you think?

 

Thanks!

Lisa

[chpiper]

I remember in elementary school being taught the little vowel song' A-E-IOU-Sometimes Y and W

 

But I haven't noticed it in any program since then...

[JudoMom]

I learned A, E, I, O, U, sometimes Y and W, too.

[thowell]

nope. Never heard it here.

[Cindy in NY]

I learned a,e,i,o,u and sometimes y.

 

No mention of w in my memory.

[AngieW in Texas]

W is part of several vowel digraphs - aw, ew, ow. So w can definitely act as a vowel, but only in combination with another vowel.

 

Y, on the other hand, can act as a vowel all on its own, like in the words gypsy or fly. It can also act as a vowel in a vowel digraph like ay, ey, or oy.

[urban mama]

I learned A, E, I, O, U, sometimes Y and W, too.

 

This is how I learned it also! But never really had much opportunity to teach it that way since it hasn't come up again since I was in elementary school:)

[MrsMe]

nope. Never heard it here.

 

Me either. Nope, nadda, nadda vowel to me! R&S says y is a vowel as in the word "day". I've never learned that either. "ay" and "aw" is the sound the two letters make together. But "y" like in bicycle is a vowel because it says the long I sound. Even when "y" is used as a short vowel sound. I never see that W says any vowel. Not "ay" or "aw" for that matter is y or w a vowel in my world.

 

Who knows. I suppose it depends on where you went to school and what part of the US.

[Robin in Tx]

W is part of several vowel digraphs - aw, ew, ow. So w can definitely act as a vowel, but only in combination with another vowel.

 

Y, on the other hand, can act as a vowel all on its own, like in the words gypsy or fly. It can also act as a vowel in a vowel digraph like ay, ey, or oy.

 

That's the way Rod and Staff teaches it, too. W, when paired with other vowels, does work to create special vowel sounds. In the word "town", the w is not acting as a silent consonant but as part of a vowel digraph. Same with y. Even though y can act like a vowel, it can also team with other vowels for special sounds. Oy is a vowlel digraph, not a vowel and a silent consonant. Personally, I think it's easier to think about it that way.

Edited August 23, 2009 by Robin in Tx

[gardening momma]

I learned a,e,i,o,u and sometimes y.

 

No mention of w in my memory.

:iagree:

[KAR120C]

W is part of several vowel digraphs - aw, ew, ow. So w can definitely act as a vowel, but only in combination with another vowel.

 

Y, on the other hand, can act as a vowel all on its own, like in the words gypsy or fly. It can also act as a vowel in a vowel digraph like ay, ey, or oy.

I would also add that in the "ew" combination (mew, drew, few, etc.) the w is what's making the "ooo" part of that sound... So it's definitely acting as a vowel there, and in a bigger role than the e, although again not on its own.

 

DS and I had a long LONG discussion of what the different letters and sounds were, how they were spelled, where the spellings came from, etc. We sorted sounds into how they were made (what's touching, voiced and unvoiced, aspirated and unaspirated, etc.), and came up with a definition of vowels that includes all voiced sounds where nothing is touching. And that didn't count all the things that can affect a vowel.... It's a much broader definition than any other I've seen (so I always followed with "but if anyone asks it's aeiou and sometimes y"), but it's a useful way to think of sounds and spellings and leads neatly into what makes a syllable and all sorts of other interesting things.

[Dinsfamily]

Never heard that one. I would have some issues teaching it that way to a beginning reader.

[Mandy in TN]

came up with a definition of vowels that includes all voiced sounds where nothing is touching. And that didn't count all the things that can affect a vowel.... It's a much broader definition than any other I've seen (so I always followed with "but if anyone asks it's aeiou and sometimes y"), but it's a useful way to think of sounds and spellings and leads neatly into what makes a syllable and all sorts of other interesting things.

 

I like that!

Mandy

[LizzyBee]

I'm using CLE LA with my daughter and in the spelling section of her next lesson, it says that W is sometimes a vowel. For example, it is a vowel when it is with "a" as in "aw". I have never heard this before and after using SWR for a number of years, I really don't want my daughter thinking W is sometimes a vowel. Has anyone else come across this and what do you think?

 

Thanks!

Lisa

 

This is what I was taught in school and I've come across it in some of the curricula I've used with my kids.

[Robin in Tx]

Never heard that one. I would have some issues teaching it that way to a beginning reader.

 

It is a very traditional treatment of phonics. These days y and w are called semivowels. I much preferred teaching traditional phonograms, even though I wasn't taught that way.

 

Robin

Edited August 23, 2009 by Robin in Tx

[Aurelia]

We just came across this in OPG, I just read the script, and didn't seem to be a huge issue to Ariel and we moved on. I never learned it, but it makes sense.

[Dinsfamily]

It is a very traditional treatment of phonics. These days y and w are called semivowels. I much preferred teaching traditional phonograms, even though I wasn't taught that way.

 

Robin

 

I understand the concept of it functioning as a vowel in a digraph, but I think it could be confusing to a beginning reader. We teach digraphs, but since a 'w' is always positioned with a vowel, is there are reason to call attention to it as a semivowels?

[LizzyBee]

FWIW, I've taught my kids that w functions as a vowel when teamed with a, e, or o, and they've not found it confusing.

[Bright_Future]

When my son came home from a small private Kindergarten saying W was sometimes a vowel, we argued and I told him he must have not heard his teacher correctly. We continued the same disagreement for the past 3 years off and on. When we got to the same information in CLE LA, I ate crow and the explanation definitely made sense.

 

So much for my great public education. I wonder where I can go to get a refund:lol:

[Tree House Academy]

W is part of several vowel digraphs - aw, ew, ow. So w can definitely act as a vowel, but only in combination with another vowel.

 

Y, on the other hand, can act as a vowel all on its own, like in the words gypsy or fly. It can also act as a vowel in a vowel digraph like ay, ey, or oy.

 

 

Yep...W has to have a vowel helper, Y can stand alone as a vowel.

[Satori]

I had never heard of it before until yesterday, coincidentally. Phonics From A to Z by Wiley Blevins (2006) says the /w/ sound is a voiced semivowel (resonant).

[FlutterbyMommy]

Well, I am clueless on this information. I made it through college without ever learning this fact. It makes complete sense, but I had only known about "y."

 

:blushing:

[mindygz]

So glad for this thread....

Yesterday I was reviewing the vowels with my 4 year old, and after we said the "standard" vowels (aeiou) dd7 says, "And?" so I add, "And sometimes Y." And she says, "And W." I said, "What? W is not a vowel. Regular U is a vowel, but not W." It was really weird. So now I'm thinking that it must be on the computer reading/phonics program the kids work on. Which is okay, and I'm grateful to have read the explanation here. But it seems like if "they" are going to promote W to "semivowel" status, maybe they should do a sort of public awareness campaign so parents aren't telling their kids they're crazy.... :tongue_smilie:

[Earth Angel_79]

. But it seems like if "they" are going to promote W to "semivowel" status, maybe they should do a sort of public awareness campaign so parents aren't telling their kids they're crazy.... :tongue_smilie:

 

LMBO! :lol: I was just reading some phonics "rules" yesterday and wondering if any of it is worth all the bother. (I'm a borderline unschooler ;).)

[Mom0012]

Thanks for all the replies! Glad to hear that it is not unusual that W would be taught as a vowel. I'd still rather not call it a vowel, just because I'm set in my ways I guess, but I'll go with it. :) I was seriously questioning my choice in curriculum yesterday, between this and the post showing a bunch of research about how poor spiral programs are.

 

Lisa

Edited August 23, 2009 by LisaTheresa

[Ellyndria]

I'm another one who learned the little "a, e, i o u, sometimes y and w" rhyme in kindergarten.

[Susie in CA]

W is part of several vowel digraphs - aw, ew, ow. So w can definitely act as a vowel, but only in combination with another vowel.

 

Y, on the other hand, can act as a vowel all on its own, like in the words gypsy or fly. It can also act as a vowel in a vowel digraph like ay, ey, or oy.

 

 

Thanks Angie for this clarification. We are using a spelling book that includes the W but it didn't explain how W acts as a vowel. I skipped that part. :D

 

Susie (now I can go back and mention it and sound knowledgeable)

[Julie in MN]

In the word "town", the w is not acting as a silent consonant but as part of a vowel digraph. Same with y. Even though y can act like a vowel, it can also team with other vowels for special sounds. Oy is a vowlel digraph, not a vowel and a silent consonant. Personally, I think it's easier to think about it that way.

 

I don't think of ow or oy as a vowel & silent consonant -- I think of them as a vowel and an audible consonant.

 

Boy is similar to yellow. /ye/ isn't just a vowel sound, and neither is /oy/ in my mind. The blending changes the sounds a bit, but the sounds are still there, & the word wouldn't sound the same without both letters being present.

 

Town or Cow are similar to went. /we/ isn't just a vowel sound, and neither is /ow/ in my mind!

[bearnpurple]

That's the way Rod and Staff teaches it, too. W, when paired with other vowels, does work to create special vowel sounds. In the word "town", the w is not acting as a silent consonant but as part of a vowel digraph. Same with y. Even though y can act like a vowel, it can also team with other vowels for special sounds. Oy is a vowlel digraph, not a vowel and a silent consonant. Personally, I think it's easier to think about it that way.

 

 

McGuffey's/Harvey's Grammar teaches it as stated above......I think ACE/School of Tomorrow does too. I remember learning it that way too.....if that is the case, should "h" in "hour" be considered a vowel instead of a silent consonant....

 

okay, sorry just ranting....it seems that things keep changing but not for the better.....just like texting has now becoming the "spelling" for kids.....they can remember the "lingo" but not the correct spelling....ugh! Sorry, read too many of my son's friends' messages....:tongue_smilie:

[Suzannah]

I learned it "sometimes Y & W" at one school, then just "sometime Y" at another school. At some point I wondered if it had something to do with Welsh and other Celtic languages. Seems like they always have some strange consonants and pronunciations.

[Matryoshka]

Here's the thing - a vowel is a sound, not a letter. A PP defined a vowel as a sound that doesn't "hit" anything in the mouth (ie use the tongue, teeth, lips). I think there are considered to be five "true" (not sure that's the right term - simple, maybe?) vowel sounds, which correspond pretty much to the Spanish vowel sounds for a,e,i,o, and u - but not to ours. Most of our "vowel" sounds are dipthongs, which are vowel sounds made from two (or more?) of the simple sounds. If you know the sounds the above make, English long "a" is /ei/, long "e" is /i/ (the only non-dipthong), long i is /ai/, long o is /ou/ and long u is /iu/.

 

Y in "you" is /ie/ and w in "was" is /ue/ - they're both vowel dipthongs. When I figured that out, I thought that's why they were considered semi-vowels, but looking at others' explanations from their phonics books, I bet it's that explanation that's the reason (w and y after a,e,i,o, or u are can be digraphs for vowel sounds).

[kalanamak]

W is part of several vowel digraphs - aw, ew, ow. So w can definitely act as a vowel, but only in combination with another vowel.

 

:iagree:

 

This was not what I was taught, but my significantly older sibs in the same educational system were taught this. Helps me now with kiddo.

[rockermom]

I learned A, E, I, O, U, sometimes Y and W, too.

 

I wasn't taught that, but I've heard it. I always assumed that it came from a Welsh version of the rhyme. :lol:

[ElizabethB]

I was never taught that, and didn't believe it until I had taught remedial phonics for a few years.

 

I never tell my students confusing names for things, I just say that the letter team /ow/ makes the sound of long o in these words, but the sound ou in these words or that the letter team /aw/ makes the sound of au as in saw. My older students who are curious and like to know additional info, I will tell them that w is acting as a vowel in this case, and that its name "double u" makes more sense when you realize this. It is clearly acting in place of a "u" in words like few, where it is the part of the letter team responsible for making the long u sound of yoo (or the oo sound, depending on which letter it follows.)

 

According to Webster, "W has the power of a vowel, as in dwell; or a consonant, as in well, will."

 

And, of the letter u: "U has the properties of a consonant and vowel, in union, &c."

 

Believe him or not, he did write our first American dictionary, so I defer to his judgement until proven otherwise.

[NavyWifeandMommy]

Never learned with the W either. The book I am at just says the main vowels for now, a i e o u. Then again this is my first time teaching and we are only in Lesson 9 of the book.

[Dinsfamily]

I was never taught that, and didn't believe it until I had taught remedial phonics for a few years.

 

I never tell my students confusing names for things, I just say that the letter team /ow/ makes the sound of long o in these words, but the sound ou in these words or that the letter team /aw/ makes the sound of au as in saw. My older students who are curious and like to know additional info, I will tell them that w is acting as a vowel in this case, and that its name "double u" makes more sense when you realize this. It is clearly acting in place of a "u" in words like few, where it is the part of the letter team responsible for making the long u sound of yoo (or the oo sound, depending on which letter it follows.)

 

According to Webster, "W has the power of a vowel, as in dwell; or a consonant, as in well, will."

 

And, of the letter u: "U has the properties of a consonant and vowel, in union, &c."

 

Believe him or not, he did write our first American dictionary, so I defer to his judgement until proven otherwise.

 

I like that teaching philosophy. :thumbup:

[Homeschooling6]

I wasn't taught this in school but when I was using the McGuffey Readers it said that 'w' was a vowel. I have read that it is in other curriculums as well.

[Colleen in SEVA]

This is the first time someone has ever suggested to me that w is a vowel. Not in 13 years of public school, not in 4 years of college, not in my classes on teaching kids to read, not in any of the materials I used in the classroom, not in ANY materials I have used thus far for homeschooling.

 

I was taught: AEIOU and sometimes Y.

 

The Vowelles (Between The Lions) teach AEIOU and sometimes Y.

 

The plastic tracing letters only use red for AEIOU & Y.

 

Jessie Wise sings "Old MacDonald had a vowel, A-E-I-O-U and sometimes Y".

 

AAS comes with red tiles for the vowels, red AND blue for Y, and ONLY blue for w. Yes it can be part of a VOWEL TEAM to be red, but w itself does not function as a vowel.

 

W is just not a vowel. Isn't (stamping my foot). And don't try to confuse me with your logic! ;)

[Testimony]

Oh, yes! I learned it as a child. I was never given an explanation as I have seen in these other posts, but I have noticed that the letter "w" seem to change the sounds of some words, which is strange to me.

 

For example, the words: won, was, wonder, wolf. They all make the "wu" sound. Why is that?

 

Anyone know the origins of that?

 

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[Dinsfamily]

W is just not a vowel. Isn't (stamping my foot). And don't try to confuse me with your logic! ;)

 

:lol:

[Robin in Tx]

I understand the concept of it functioning as a vowel in a digraph, but I think it could be confusing to a beginning reader. We teach digraphs, but since a 'w' is always positioned with a vowel, is there are reason to call attention to it as a semivowels?

 

I believe it clarifies, instead of confuses. As a matter of fact, when we learned this some eight to ten years ago, I clearly remember a light bulb going off (a eureka moment!). All made much more sense to both me and my dd.

 

But, like I said, this is a much more formal approach to phonics which doesn't appeal to everyone.

 

Robin

[Robin in Tx]

if that is the case, should "h" in "hour" be considered a vowel instead of a silent consonant....

 

QUOTE]

 

Hour sounds the same as our. It doesn't change the vowel sound in the word. It's a silent consonant... :)

[ElizabethB]

W is just not a vowel. Isn't (stamping my foot). And don't try to confuse me with your logic! ;)

 

Give it a few years!

 

I'm still working on the Pluto thing, give me a few years there before I believe it.

[ElizabethB]

Oh, yes! I learned it as a child. I was never given an explanation as I have seen in these other posts, but I have noticed that the letter "w" seem to change the sounds of some words, which is strange to me.

 

For example, the words: won, was, wonder, wolf. They all make the "wu" sound. Why is that?

 

Anyone know the origins of that?

 

 

I don't know the reason why, but there are some reliable patterns of vowel changes with w words, from my sight word page:

 

These words are often taught as sight words, but actually, they are completely phonetic. The or in wor is normally pronounced er as in her, the a in words starting with wa is pronounced ah as in saw, and the ar sound in words like warm is pronounced like or in for. (Regional variations in pronunciation may occur, especially for vowels before an "r" or an "l.")

 

word, work, worth

want, wash

warm, ward, war

Edited August 25, 2009 by ElizabethB

[TracyR]

I had never heard of it until I read this post. LOL. And I've used a lot of curriculum. LOL.

I was taught AEIOU. I didn't hear about AEIOU and sometimes Y until I went to a Christian school in my 7th grade year and even then I had forgotten about that until many years later when I bought the Leap Pad DVD's for my 2nd daughter when she was 4.5 yrs old(talk about a long time).

 

The W thing is totally new to me. Neither my husband or I knew that. I'll tell ya, I learn something new every day.

[hmschooling]

W is part of several vowel digraphs - aw, ew, ow. So w can definitely act as a vowel, but only in combination with another vowel.

 

Y, on the other hand, can act as a vowel all on its own, like in the words gypsy or fly. It can also act as a vowel in a vowel digraph like ay, ey, or oy.

 

 

I can see their point- but wouldn't that make it more like a w-controlled vowel, similar to an r-controlled vowel? If you say that makes w a vowel when it pairs with one, then r has to be one too when it's paired with one. I NEVER heard of W as a vowel before, ever!

 

I would say only vowels are vowels, and y is sometimes b/c it can stand alone as such. No other letters can stand alone as a vowel. Every syllable must have a vowel and only a,e,i,o,u, and y provide that...w can't.

[rlowetx]

:lol::lol::lol:

I've been teaching this mantra to my son for the last few years:

AEIOU and sometimes Y and W.. just like I was taught.

Yesterday he asked me when was W used as a vowel.

 

"hmmm, I don't know, that was just the saying I was taught"...

 

Now I get to tell him the answer! Sweet.. I love these boards.

[Reya]

Two answers:

 

1) Depends on how old you are. :-) Older programs are more likely to ID it as a vowel.

 

2) If you're talking about phonemics, it's called an approximate, specifically a glide, and is in the no man's land between what is classed solidly as consonant and solidly as vowel.

 

The other English approximates are R, L, and J (soft J).

[Sara in PNW]

I'm new here and new to homeschooling. I have a 5 & 3 year old. I read this post and now I'm scared. I wonder if I'm equipped to do this big job of homeschooling! I can tell this will be a great place to learn for myself :) I learned A,E,I,O,U and sometimes Y.

[OrganicAnn]

I guess you don't know the word 'cwm'. People who do crosswords and other word puzzles will come across strange words like this.

 

I'm probably older than most and I learned "... and sometimes w".

Edited August 25, 2009 by OrganicAnn