BMW Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 abortion... and you could not use religious reasons... what would you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Are you close to this woman? Do you know why she feels like she has no other option? Could you sit down with her and help her come up with a plan for after the baby is born? Can you offer her help, whether it is financial, babysitting, etc? This may sound trivial, but there's got to be a reason she feels like this is her only choice. :grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) (1) So many cultures regard murder as wrong, with or without religious explanations. (2) Unless interfered with -- which can be "naturally", as with miscarriage, or which can be "unnaturally", as with abortion -- the joining of a sperm cell with an egg cell WILL result in the birth of a human being. Sometimes two (identical twins). If you receive back the specious claim that "it is not yet a human", then the woman has a gigantic blind spot which you may or may not be able to help her remove. Quite straightforward. Now, as Nakia points out, you need to find out why the woman is considering abortion, rather than considering other options (raising the child herself, or giving the priceless, loving gift of adoption) Edited July 14, 2009 by Orthodox6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Unless she's asking for your help or advice, I'd mind my own business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I thought it was safe to assume that the pregnant woman was discussing the issue with OP, else OP would not have posted. Unless she's asking for your help or advice, I'd mind my own business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amy g. Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I would stress how many children were born into difficult situations, but then turned out to be such a huge blessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Well, I guess I'd start by finding out just what her misgivings are, and offering to help find ways to address those directly. Local/state resources for medical aid, adoption agencies, parenting resources, mental health services, etc. astrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I thought it was safe to assume that the pregnant woman was discussing the issue with OP, else OP would not have posted. That's the assumption I was going on as well. If that's not the case, I'd mind my own business. astrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I thought it was safe to assume that the pregnant woman was discussing the issue with OP, else OP would not have posted.I tend to be an assume nothing kinda person... either way. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 If I were not asked directly, I would "mind my own business", too -- with specific exceptions. If the woman were a close relative of mine, or were married to my brother, or were married to one of my sons, I would have to classify the event as a "family event". Of course [ ! ! ! ] I could not impose my will on another person. But I could not consider it wrong for me to convey my viewpoint, gently and courteously, to the woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I agree with all that everyone said but the central question is how just is it to end an innocent life, despite difficult circumstances? There is a person there that already has likes and dislikes, already has a personality, already there with his or her own uniqueness even if we don't yet know it. Those are the points I would make if asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiana Daniels Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Do you have a crisis pregnancy center in your area? They are trained to talk with women in difficult situations, and several centers have ultrasound machines so that women can see their babies before making any decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 This is a very good friend of my daughters... she is about 19 yrs old... doesn't want to be a mom right now... hadn't "planned" on this happening and this is a new boyfriend that she hasn't dated very long at all... She is going to a planned parenthood counseling appt today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Then, that's the end of the baby. (very, very sad) PP's tactics are notorious. She is going to a planned parenthood counseling appt today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Maybe you could go with her? Present another side? Whatever happens, I'd try to give her some sort of support--I couldn't agree with a decision to abort, but I'd certainly try to be there other ways, if she'd value that. I'd pray, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 What a sad difficult spot for you to be in... I agree, find out what her reasons are and then... well, do the best you can to address them. The pregnancy crisis centers are good too. For someone to know that someone else is considering an abortion, I would guess some sort of conversation must have gone on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 My dd is meeting with her PRIOR to her going to PP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Unless she's asking for your help or advice, I'd mind my own business. It's everybodies business when the life of a child is a stake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 Thank you, Katemary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I can't possibly disagree with this statement ! Sometimes, though, -- and this I stake my life on -- fervent prayer, behind the scenes, turns out to be more powerful and effective than an in-person attempt at intervention. It's everybodies business when the life of a child is a stake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Has the young woman seen the film, "Bella" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I only have a minute, and haven't read other people's responses. I am pro choice, but I would tell her that there are hundreds of wonderful people waiting to adopt a child who can't have one. I would also tell her that it's not fair to the child to get rid of it, just because she's not ready- again, someone wants to raise that baby that can't have one of their own. I would also say that someday, the emotional guilt of having the abortion, would be much worse than giving it up. I would also let her know about the different types of adoption- open or closed. ((())) to her, you and your dd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I need to be brief, but can follow up with more details. Studies/surveys show that the vast majority of women who have had an abortion deeply regret it. If she can find someone who wants to adopt the baby then they will take care of the medical expenses (for the best) and then some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I would also say that someday, the emotional guilt of having the abortion, would be much worse than giving it up.:iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Do the father's parents know that she is pregnant? My best friend is the mother of 4 boys and has said flat out that she would adopt any of her childrens' offspring if at all possible rather than to have them aborted. I remember a very scholarly and popular girl in high school got pregnant at the end of her senior year. The college that offered her a scholarship let her delay her admission so she could give birth. She picked out a couple from her church to adopt her baby boy and had an open-adoption. I just saw her fb and she finished college, is a math teacher, married a pastor and has a family of her own now. It worked out very well. I felt the movie Juno depicted a very positive aspect of adoption also. The girl was acting in a very reasonable manner. Maybe it's unrealistic, but maybe not.... My own sister had an abortion as a 18 year old. She didn't tell my mom or me until 25+ years later. She has never married or had any other pregnancies. She carries a lot of anger over it. My mom wishes she would have known about the pregnancy so she could have offered her some alternatives....but my sister went straight to PP. It's very sad and I agree that it leaves emotional scars. K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I felt the movie Juno depicted a very positive aspect of adoption also. The girl was acting in a very reasonable manner. Maybe it's unrealistic' date=' but maybe not.... K[/quote'] That is an excellent movie. It's hard to watch (btdt), but the whole fingernails thing is very true. I've known girls get to the brink of an abortion and find some trivial fact (your baby has nails!) and change their minds. The emotional scars are an excellent point. This is something that cannot possibly be undone. An open adoption can at least keep you up to date, some will even allow the mother a small part in the baby's life. Later, if the baby decides to, a relationship can be fostered. Once you've had an abortion, there are no do-overs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 What a tough situation. I have been there myself, well sort of, I never considered abortion but did consider adoption in the beginning. When I was 20 I met a guy at the bar, and against better judgement went home with him. I shacked up with him for a week before he went back east for 3 weeks. He got home New year's eve and I got pregnant that night. By the time I found out a few weeks later he and I were no longer seeing each other. I was in shock, terrified, scared. I had no idea what I was going to do. I was in college, ended up homeless the day I found out(my mom kicked me out because I refused to have an abortion), and stressed. In the end I wound up moving in with the guy. I still didn't know what I was going to do, but at 14 weeks I had a threatened miscarriage when the placenta tore a bit. I saw my baby on the ultrasound in the hospital and was instantly in love. Today that baby is turning 11 years old in about 7 weeks. Truth be told it has been a hard row to hoe, when he was 2.5 I wound up a single parent and have been one ever since, due to his premature birth and genetics etc he does have special needs. But I could not imagine my life without him. It sounds like she is scared right now because this pregnancy is such a surprise. I am wondering in all of this what the father to be thinks about this pregnancy. Is he pushing for an abortion, with threats of breaking up? Is he morally opposed and would prefer an adoption? Does he want this child? While I know all the arguements for "her body, her choice", as this child's father he should have some say in the matter if he is leaning towards adoption or raising the child. I would start there, asking what his plans are in this. IF she is looking at abortion because she is scared of the what if's, I would be frank with her and say there is no telling what the future will bring, BUT there is always a way to ensure this child has an opportunity at a life. WHether through adoption or raising him/her on her own or with the father. What about her own mother, what does she think about this pregnancy and how things should proceed? No the circumstances are not ideal, in an ideal situation she would have been married/in a stable situation before planning a child, but this is where her life is now. Making a life and death situation based only on fear of the unknown is something that will lead to regrets later. Even if she comes out of the abortion feeling she made the right choice, it may come back later in life to haunt her. In addition to talking with her about the options etc, I would talk to her about fetal development. About when the heart starts beating, when the brain is formed, movement, show her pictures of a fetus at only 10 weeks old if she argues that it is not a human yet. A 10 week fetus looks just like baby only in minature. There is no denying that it is a human. How far along is she? Has she only just discovered that she is pg? I would encourage her to gather all her information but not to act on it for at least a week or two to give her time to process it all before making such a drastic decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I'd see if there was a spot she could do a 3-D sonogram. Is that what it's called? There are SO many people who would love to raise the child. Maybe if she felt like someone she knew would raise it? Or, when she saw the picture of the baby, she'd at least give it a chance?? Carrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Knoll Mom Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Your daughter should check out Feminists for Life before she talks to her friend. They have lots of non-religious pro-life info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I only have a minute, and haven't read other people's responses. I am pro choice, but I would tell her that there are hundreds of wonderful people waiting to adopt a child who can't have one. I would also tell her that it's not fair to the child to get rid of it, just because she's not ready- again, someone wants to raise that baby that can't have one of their own. I would also say that someday, the emotional guilt of having the abortion, would be much worse than giving it up. I would also let her know about the different types of adoption- open or closed. ((())) to her, you and your dd! I agree. I'm pro-choice as well, but echo all that Unicorn has said. Coicidentally, I was flipping the channels last night and just caught the last half-hour of the movie "Juno." I didn't see anything but the last half hour, so I can't really make an informed judgement, but the portion I saw seemed like a pretty positive picture of a pregnant teen choosing adoption. tough situation--- I'll be thinking of all involved! astrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Then, that's the end of the baby. (very, very sad) PP's tactics are notorious. I have to disagree with this. I worked at a PP and *ALL* options were discussed, and abortion was most definitely not encouraged. Some of the counseling staff were pro-choice, some were not. Our PP didn't do abortions, because none of the providers would even consider doing them. There is probably a great deal of variation depending on the staff, and I have no idea what other clinics were doing. We were all about prevention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I would remind her that the baby is still a baby, and it's not ok to kill someone just because he lives in a uterus. If she doesn't want to keep the baby, there are many organizations that are ready and able to find a home for him. But it's just not ok to take that baby's life. I might be able to say all of this in a kind and gentle tone of voice, but I wouldn't be able to back down on my position: a life is a life, and we may not take a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnL Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I would point out my 3 beautiful children, who joined us through adoption. If Daphne were murdered by her bmom, she wouldn't be the sweet, intelligent 8 year old she is today. If Jeran were murdered by his bmom, we wouldn't be sharing all his creative activities with everyone, such as, last week, he peed into the cat box. (gross, I know) He's 5, and he is the most handsome little boy I've ever seen. If Jalen were murdered by his bmom, no one would have ever heard him laugh. He has the best laugh in the world, and when Jalen laughs, everyone laughs with him. Jalen is afraid of nothing. Last week at the zoo, he shouted "gimme my popcorn!" and ran up to a complete strangers and stole a handful of popcorn out of her bag. Jalen is 2, and when he is grown, he will be able to do anything in the world. I'm so thankful their birthmoms didn't murder them. I know they are thankful for the chance to live, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Thank you, Perry. Astrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) I'm very glad to hear that you worked at a responsible PP clinic. I wish that such were the norm. I just read that, according to the 2007-2008 annual report of Planned Parenthood, in 2007, the organization performed 62 abortions for every adoption referral it provided. I worked at a PP and *ALL* options were discussed, and abortion was most definitely not encouraged. Some of the counseling staff were pro-choice, some were not. Our PP didn't do abortions, because none of the providers would even consider doing them. There is probably a great deal of variation depending on the staff, and I have no idea what other clinics were doing. We were all about prevention. Edited July 14, 2009 by Orthodox6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Your daughter should check out Feminists for Life before she talks to her friend. They have lots of non-religious pro-life info. I was going to recommend this resource as well. Studies/surveys show that the vast majority of women who have had an abortion deeply regret it. One completely non-religious point that I think people tend to lose sight of is that abortion is very unnatural. Whether you believe the instincts are God-given or put there by millions of years of evolution, the simple truth is that women do have a strong instinct to protect and provide for their children. Fear can override those instincts in the short-term, but many, many women are haunted by their decision in the long-term because it does go against what every instinct in our bodies is screaming for us to do: to love our babies! Giving a baby up for adoption is a tremendous act of love. I would try to assure her that that is something that she could always feel good about, that she would have the comfort of knowing that she did what was best, even though it was so very difficult for her. I think that in the moment, abortion sounds so easy, and adoption so hard. But in the long-term, the reality is the reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I was unmarried, broke and still in school when I found out I was pregnant the first time. My family was encouraging me to get an abortion so I could finish college, go to grad school and not "ruin my life". Thank God I have this awesome stubborn streak. My oldest daughter is an incredible person. We're always joking that she's going to be CEO of something someday. She also scores in the 99th percentile on standardized testing - bonus! She's 7 going on 35. She could literally "take over" if something horrible happened to me. She's probably downstairs right now consulting with the President. I guess the point is...every baby is special, has a mission and is going to make a difference in the world according to their own gifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I'm very glad to hear that you worked at a responsible PP clinic. I wish that such were the norm. Having worked at a CPC that was constantly targeted by PP, I have to agree. Notorious tactics is a nice way of putting it. These people were venomous. But, to answer the OP, I can only parrot the sentiments of the other posts. Discuss with her why she she feels it's the only option. Having BTDT, I can attest that the guilt can be consuming. There ARE other options that have a more happier ending for everyone involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Everyone else has given wonderful advice. Its a hard situation to be in, and who knows what the boyfriend's feelings are on it, if he even knows about the pregnancy. I wish this young woman all the wisdom in the world, to make the right decision, and the courage and strength to follow through on it. Her life has changed forever, no matter what she chooses, and perhaps thats something that really needs to be impressed upon her. An abortion isn't going to make this all 'not have happened'. Nothing can do that. If you're in the position to do this, let her know that if she decides to continue the pregnancy, you are there for her to support her in any way she may need...including a place to live, if her parents kick her out. Chances are, she's scared to death of what they're reaction would be, on top of the fears for her own future. :grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I was adopted at birth. I would not be here. I now have an adopted son. He would not be here. That is my arguement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmacnchs Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I don't have time to read all the posts so sorry if someone already posted this but there are Pregnancy Life Care Centers for girls to go to who are considering an abortion and they will inform the pants off your friend about what's going on inside of her body. Another cool thing is that they will give her an ultrasound to show her the LIFE in her. I would google it + your city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Oh my. I don't think I would get into that conversation with someone unless they asked for my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I think this is one of those subjects where I wouldn't try to encourage anyone do to something they weren't already considering. That would go against my greater instinct, but ... my experience tells me that this is the most appropriate way I can help someone in this situation. In two generations of my family we have experienced adoption (as adoptees and adopting-out, both "encouraged" and independently decided), abortion (both coerced and independently decided), and keeping (three) undesired pregnancies (both coerced and independently decided). It's been an education all it's own. Adoption seems like the obvious answer, but it isn't always the happy ending that people make it out to be. Nor is abortion always the ugly ending people make it out to be, regardless of we feel about it morally and ethically. I believe we shouldn't resort to fear tactics or manipulation in our well-intended effort to offer an education on pregnancy and all available options. That same information can be made available without "encouraging" the pregnant mother towards one or another option, and without the lingering aftereffect of also 'encouraging' guilt and regret down the road for ANY decision made. Does this friend know that your daughter has spoken to you about the pregnancy? Can you avail yourself to offer unbiased education, with the intent to comfort a scared and vulnerable woman (as opposed to with the intent to facilitate a desired ending)? Maybe hearing the information from someone known and trusted will have a more lasting effect on the woman, as she reviews her options. She'll be riding an emotional roller coaster in the days/weeks to come, and a readily available adult support would be invaluable, I'm sure. I admire your daughter for supporting her friend right now; it's a hard role to be in, especially when you are trying to support someone who is considering choices you never would. Kudos to her, and to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Sigh. What a difficult situation. Originally Posted by Lovedtodeath Studies/surveys show that the vast majority of women who have had an abortion deeply regret it. I have to say, I wonder if this is really true. I got in a discussion with my mother where she claimed most of those getting an abortion were teens pressured by their parents, and I ended up discovering from government abortion statistics just how many are in their 20s/30s. And I remember an article in "Brain, Child" magazine (I think) that said that most of those having an abortion were already mothers (i.e. had another child at home). I have to say, there is something suspiciously eugenics-like with the push for everyone to have genetic testing before so they can be "informed," when such a majority of people chose to end pregnancies where fetal testing suggests Down's syndrome or whatever. So I wonder if those people really regret the abortion? Or just sort of regret that it happened (that it "was necessary" or regret that they had a one-night stand or whatever)? Or is it too hard to parse the difference? I am trying VERY hard to not rant about all the people (including married people!) who regularly make comments along the lines of being surprised that they become pregnant "without trying," as if pregnancy comes from a purely mental process. There is such a huge undercurrent of denial about where babies come from in American society, it's ridiculous and sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I am trying VERY hard to not rant about all the people (including married people!) who regularly make comments along the lines of being surprised that they become pregnant "without trying," as if pregnancy comes from a purely mental process. There is such a huge undercurrent of denial about where babies come from in American society, it's ridiculous and sad. I always have to fight that urge within myself too, Stripe. Like my dad always said, "Pregnancy is self-inflicted." (of course, not including rape/incest, etc.) astrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I can't possibly disagree with this statement ! Sometimes, though, -- and this I stake my life on -- fervent prayer, behind the scenes, turns out to be more powerful and effective than an in-person attempt at intervention. You are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Sigh. What a difficult situation. I have to say, I wonder if this is really true. I got in a discussion with my mother where she claimed most of those getting an abortion were teens pressured by their parents, and I ended up discovering from government abortion statistics just how many are in their 20s/30s. And I remember an article in "Brain, Child" magazine (I think) that said that most of those having an abortion were already mothers (i.e. had another child at home). I have to say, there is something suspiciously eugenics-like with the push for everyone to have genetic testing before so they can be "informed," when such a majority of people chose to end pregnancies where fetal testing suggests Down's syndrome or whatever. So I wonder if those people really regret the abortion? Or just sort of regret that it happened (that it "was necessary" or regret that they had a one-night stand or whatever)? Or is it too hard to parse the difference? I am trying VERY hard to not rant about all the people (including married people!) who regularly make comments along the lines of being surprised that they become pregnant "without trying," as if pregnancy comes from a purely mental process. There is such a huge undercurrent of denial about where babies come from in American society, it's ridiculous and sad. The abortions that happen, because a child is not healthy (or is healthy, but has "issues") bother me so much more. It's admitting, this is a life and then saying, but it's not one I feel like dealing with. I do think that a lot of women that feel no guilt/regret base it all in denial or a stubborn need to say, it was the only thing I could do, my hands were tied, there were no other options opened to me. In those cases, I would not be surprised if there is guilt, but it is ignored and, imo, that's even unhealthier than just admitting, I did something and now I wish I had not. I also think that a person's spirit can grieve with or without them, but that's a whole nother ball of wax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 The abortions that happen, because a child is not healthy (or is healthy, but has "issues") bother me so much more. It's admitting, this is a life and then saying, but it's not one I feel like dealing with. All the reasons people use to excuse killing their own babies bother me the same amount. :crying::crying::crying: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresatwist Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) That's a really difficult situation. I hope she has someone who will just LISTEN to her. When you're thinking about whether or not to keep a child, whether that means considering abortion, considering adoption, or raising the child yourself I would think you would have enough spinning around in your head without needing other people interjecting their opinions. Unless she has solicited other people's opinions I really think the best thing a person can do in that kind of situation is to just listen and be supportive regardless of what she decides. This, of course, is just my personal opinion. Also, it's been said here how awful abortion is, can I just add how awful it is that so many boys (yes, boys if they act this way they aren't men) choose to completely abandon the children they father. Edited July 14, 2009 by theresatwist typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 All the reasons people use to excuse killing their own babies bother me the same amount. :crying::crying::crying: Imo, once you've gotten to this point (let's see if baby is healthy), there are no ignorance excuses. I understand, some people do not believe they're carrying a life, but once you've reached the point of tests, how can you possibly go on believing that?!? That's why it bothers me even more. The death of a baby, that's always horrible, the death of a baby by someone that knows.......... I can't even finish the thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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