BMW Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 A girl has a stepdad, mom and toddler sister. Mom and stepdad were each abused as children. Mom treats girl, age 13, with guilt trips and rude comments/obscenities.... tells her she is ungrateful for all she does for her and that she is just going to go tell others what a terrible mom she is. Mom has been irresponsible over the years, once in anger threatened to kill girl... Girl is afraid to talk about what happens at her house because parents say, "What happens in the family, stays in the family." And stepdad said, "If you tell, I'll just say you made it up and are crazy." About 3 times this year something really over the line happens... usually between the mom and stepdad... they fight and have a bad relationship. Stepdad tries to run over mom with the car... mom tries to leave, stepdad follows her around... mom comes home drunk and they fight and furniture gets broken. Girl walks the tightrope... tries to not get in trouble... but gets in trouble for days on end for little things... like a wrapper left in behind the couch cusion, or not cleaning the mirror when she cleaned the bathroom... and is yelled at, cussed at... Recently, girl is in trouble for not finishing the chore all the way and is getting yelled at. Stepdad spits on her and head butts her. Later he tries to pull her off her bed, grabbing hold of her legs. Drama continues for hours and late in the evening, as parents are fighting, girl hears stepdad say, "You handle your daughter." And mom says, "Just get rid of her... she can go committ suicide..." etc. Does this cross the line???? My heart breaks for this girl. She is very scared because she has not told anyone before. She is afraid that her mom wont love her anymore if she tells what happens. She is afraid that other relatives wont understand and hate her if she breaks up her family by reporting this. She wants to keep laying low and trying to stay out of trouble... She is afraid and shaking at the thought of being taken out of her home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbalgirl Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Oh my goodness. That totally crosses the line. The girl NEEDS to tell an authority or someone whom she can trust, ASAP. She NEEDS to be removed from that situation. I fear what may happen in the near future if she doesn't. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I've seen kids justifiably taken from their homes for less than this. And kids don't like being taken away from their parents, even in worse circumstances than these. This girl needs some major help, and she needs it yesterday. I would get the authorities involved. It is not a betrayal of trust to get her help, even if it might seem like it to her in the short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 What a horrible, horrible situation. Cross the line? Obviously. This child is being abused and needs intervention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbalgirl Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I also wanted to add that there is no way that this girl can determine what will/won't set off her mom and stepdad at any particular point in time. They are like ticking timebombs. They need professional help themselves! There is absolutely NO WAY that she will be able to "lay low" or stay out of trouble for even a day in this household. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secular_mom Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Wow, I would call CPS. I would try to encourage the girl to call CPS, talk to a guidance counselor or someone who can help. She's not ABLE to 'lay low' and 'stay out of trouble', because they are abusers. They have major anger control issues, and when they are ready to 'go off' they will find a reason to. She needs to understand that it's not her responsibility to try to be 'perfect' to please these people, that it's not her fault they behave this way, that THEY are the ones with issues. Her mother already doesn't 'love' her, and the best thing she could do for her family is to report them and force them to face their reality and have outside intervention possibly force them to 'get help' with their issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aunty Social Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I agree, get help now! If you are willing and she agrees, I would ask the authorities if she could stay with you - at least for the short term. It sounds like she trusts and respects you, and she needs to be with someone like that right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vettechmomof2 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 This is a horrible life for the girl to live in. She might not think it is the right thing but that is what adults who are looking out for her should do, report this so that she can speak with someone ASAP. THe whole family will be interviewed, unfortunately that also means she will have to give these examples to others and explain what has been happening. Good luck and thank you for helping her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen in PA Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 That's the sort of thing that a mandated reporter (teacher, doctor, etc.) would be REQUIRED to report if they found out about it. Everywhere I have ever lived, reports to family services are confidential, so her parents would have no way of knowing who called the authorities. Many social workers will even imply that they had a tip from someone who saw/heard something, which keeps parents from being able to accuse the children of being the source. That poor child! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I also wanted to add that there is no way that this girl can determine what will/won't set off her mom and stepdad at any particular point in time. They are like ticking timebombs. They need professional help themselves! There is absolutely NO WAY that she will be able to "lay low" or stay out of trouble for even a day in this household. :iagree: And I am positive the reason the girl wants to not stir up trouble is because of the abuse. Abusers keep their victims in line with guilt and threats. They have this child believing that telling anyone or leaving to go live with anyone else is the bad thing to do, when actually it would probably benefit her. Honestly, if the girl didn't say something to somebody, I would call authorities and ask for help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Please, please do not try to finesse this along yourself. Please get this girl help. In the meanwhile, make sure she knows your home is safe. Yes, this is reportable, and yes, it meets the legal definition for abuse. As she continues to grow into a young lady her danger will increase. Please do what it takes to get her out of there. If after the authorities intervene she is left there, make sure her teachers know about it. It may take more than one phone call. Thank you for caring about her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Oh my goodness. That totally crosses the line. The girl NEEDS to tell an authority or someone whom she can trust, ASAP. She NEEDS to be removed from that situation. I fear what may happen in the near future if she doesn't. :( Indeed, she has told someone she can trust. You. Now, together, you need to call authorities who can help. Poor thing. :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Does this cross the line???? Agreeing with everyone else. I'd report it to CPS--they will talk to her at school without her parents' knowledge. Her parents will know after that, so get her somewhere safe. You can call a women's shelter for recommendations. I'd also contact the police to let them know that you are reporting this, that they could come after you, and ask them what you can do to protect yourself. I'd actually go in and make an appointment, not do it over the phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I used to remove kids who were being abused/neglected. HUGE warning signs here!! Please call TODAY!! If I were assigned to this case the child would be removed. End of story. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Agreeing strongly with everyone ahead of me in line here. She already has asked for help in as "safe" a manner as she knows how. Without intervention, this girl may be a 3-line newspaper article someday (in the obits). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adams101 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 In the state of Texas, as I understand it, if you don't report it, you can go to jail. I know this is true for teachers, daycare, etc, but I think the law is applies to anyone. I worked at a preschool, and called CPS for something not even close to this. You might mention that the girl has confided in you and you are willing to let her stay with you for a while (if that is the case). They MIGHT consider that, who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Goodness! What a question! Does this cross the line? YES. She's being abused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 The reason that I asked this question is because I've had a call into the pastoral staff of a church (mandated reporters) and they say that if there is no physical signs of physical abuse, there is nothing to be done... I don't agree, myself. Abuse isn't just physical. Thanks... I am making a solid decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 Well, guess what? Child Protective Services does not see any reason to get involved... They took NO information from me, just calmly listened and gave me some other number to call so she could get her parent's permission to get counseling or have somewhere else to go (like THAT will happen). How ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphabetika Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Oh this poor girl and her little sister. No real answers here, if CPS has already blown you off, but I wonder what would happen if you kept trying with CPS. These girls NEED to be out of their home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekarl2 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Well, guess what? Child Protective Services does not see any reason to get involved... They took NO information from me, just calmly listened and gave me some other number to call so she could get her parent's permission to get counseling or have somewhere else to go (like THAT will happen). How ridiculous. You're kidding, really??? I'm totally shocked. Do you know any police officers in your town? Can you tell him or her the situation and see what they say? Some CPS orgs are totally understaffed and overwhelmed. Yours may just not be able to handle the caseload. The same order of operations as journalism ... "if it bleeds, it leads." Terrible, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Well, guess what? Child Protective Services does not see any reason to get involved... They took NO information from me, just calmly listened and gave me some other number to call so she could get her parent's permission to get counseling or have somewhere else to go (like THAT will happen). How ridiculous. Did you tell them about the headbutting, the dragging off the bed, and the threat she overheard? If not, call again. If so, wait 4-6 hours and try again. Sometimes a new person on a new shift hears things differently. Also, keep to the physical facts. BTW your pastoral staff is wrong, though I have seen this kind of head-in-the-sand response more than once from ministry workers. I am truly sorry. It's a common response but they are wrong. They are NOT required to find evidence--that's the investigator's job. They ARE required to report suspected abuse. They do not have to see bruises--they just have to be aware that violence has occurred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Actually, with some variation, it sounds like my childhood. My parents were my biolgoical parents, though. I would have been beside myself if someone took me from my parents. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 The reason that I asked this question is because I've had a call into the pastoral staff of a church (mandated reporters) and they say that if there is no physical signs of physical abuse, there is nothing to be done... I don't agree, myself. Abuse isn't just physical. Thanks... I am making a solid decision. Yes, this is what I was thinking. Someone very close to me has children who are being abused by their father. CPS was called but would do nothing because there weren't any bruises or other signs of physical abuse, even though the children stated it was happening and that they were scared. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 :banghead: I wonder just how many headlines result from the kind of answers you received? Too many. :banghead: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I agree with calling back to CPS. Then I would give ONLY facts of actual abuse, not what she sees, feels, hears, etc. Outline what is abuse. They HAVE to check it out. If they blow you off again, I would do two things. 1) I would be snotty about another case of REAL abuse having a tragic ending and their hands being bloody and 2) I would ask to speak to a supervisor. The first post had a LOT of extra information which pulls heart strings but isn't something CPS can actually check into. CPS hears this emotional stuff and doesn't filter through it as well. Again, keep to just the facts and obvious abuse. List it. If they want more information or back-stories, they'll ask. The idea isn't to break up the family but in this case, it may be necessary until the adults can work out their junk (or possibly forever). Seriously, there is a point where the trauma (and it IS trauma) of being yanked out of your house is not as problematic as being kept in the house. This sounds like that kind of situation to me. But CPS can investigate and HOPEFULLY find the TRUTH of the situation enough to evalute well enough to decide. Anyway, call back, be firm and keep it to the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole M Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Well, guess what? Child Protective Services does not see any reason to get involved... They took NO information from me, just calmly listened and gave me some other number to call so she could get her parent's permission to get counseling or have somewhere else to go (like THAT will happen). How ridiculous. This makes me want to cry. Did you get the name of the person you spoke with at CPS? If it were me, I'd write a letter to CPS, copying everyone I could think of, with the information you gave here, with the fact that you called at X hour on X day and nothing was done. This is just not acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I agree, call back. If you can, take her to talk to someone (CPS, police, a mandated reporter) directly. Make sure she knows she can come to you any day, any hour. Give her some backup people to go to as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 No offense intended, but I would not rely on pastoral staff to determine risk. Even IF they are mandated reporters (and EVERYONE in the state I live in is a mandated reporter) that doesn't mean that they know how to assess risk. (obviously) Now, as to the CPS call you made. It is awful that they blew you off. Risk increases with reduced age. (as in, "a 13 day old child is more at risk than a 13 year old child") I'm not trying to side with them, not at all. They missed the boat. They may have been thinking that perhaps she could fend for herself (like she has been trying to do!) or she could be exxagerating. (FTR, I don't think this) Unfortunately, this is not a 'teen-only' dilemna. Children are not trusted or believed, in general. :mad: (and the step-father even exploited that very real fear saying , "I'll just tell people you are crazy and they won't believe you".) Have you considered calling the police? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 When calling CPS, PD, etc it is helpful to distill your concerns. Here are the risk factors as I see them, just from what you have written in your first post. (and I am sure that there is more going on there!) Parents (mom and step-father) were abused as children Threatened to kill "What happens in the family, stays in the family." Exposure to Domestic Violence (when this is substantiated it is treated as child abuse because it is well-known and accepted that exposure to DV increases a child's risk for stress, depression, abuse as an adult, poor school performanc,etc.) spits on her and head butts her (use of humiliation/degredation) "Just get rid of her... she can go committ suicide..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Could you hire her as a mother's helper or have her spend a good deal of time at your house for some other reason? I realize that that may not be feasible for your family, but it was just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I would keep calling CPS until they agreed to look into the situation. My 16 year old niece's mother lost visitation due to the fact that her live-in boyfriend had a record of domestic abuse and DUIs. We think my neices pediatrican called CPS (she has an eating disorder). CPS said that she could regain visitation when the boyfriend moves out (hasn't happened yet). CPS told the mother to her face that her boyfriend shouldn't be around ANY woman. Apparently CPS runs background checks on all parties involved (parents included) and he has a rap sheet of violence-related charges. Perhaps the step-father has an equally bothersome rap sheet? This is in Washington State, so YMMV. K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in the Kootenays Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Do you have a women's shelter nearby that you can ask for more help? They might be able to assist you with CPS or give you advice as to what to do next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 This advice was given earlier in the thread, and I think it is well worth trying. Shelter staff have extensive experience (sadly true) with advising people in these situations. I also wonder whether you live in a town where the CPS staff is understaffed and waaay over-booked with case load. I know of a case in a city near mine, where a case was supposed (by law !) to be closed within thirty days. It now has been 120 days, and the case has not been closed "because they are busy". Do you have a women's shelter nearby that you can ask for more help? They might be able to assist you with CPS or give you advice as to what to do next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHGrandma Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Is the girl's father around? He'd have the best shot at getting this child out of that abusive situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherclassicmom Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 That is just sad that CPS won't get involved. I bet if it was a "homeschooling" family they would have jumped on it. I agree with the poster that suggested getting the girl to be your "mothers helper". I have lived in a situation similar to this one in the sense of being yelled at for minor offenses when parents were fighting, or being put down over chores not being perfectly done. The only issues that could arise from her being a mothers helper, is the guilt that could be placed on her from her mother for being willing to help someone else out instead of her own mom. It's irrational, but it will happen if this woman is into the guilt trips. I say, if the 13 year old is truly frightened, and you believe or have witnessed this story to be true, you have to fight for her. Because of her age she will not be able to stand under the pressure alone, and she will begin to feel it's all her fault when adults question her repeatedly. She may replay things in her mind, her parents may try to turn the story around, and even though they say they will change, when behind closed doors it will only get worse. I can attest to this! How many times when I would try and speak up, my mom in front of the other party would say, wow, I had no idea you felt this way. Am I really that terrible? I will try to work on it. Yet, when the people went away it would always get worse. The guilt that was laid on me, the silent treatments, the yelling, the snotty remarks, the list goes on. If I was that 13 year old, I would just want to try and stick it out. Unless someone had a solid place for me to go to until it really could get worked out. I was so happy to leave when I was 18. I have a supportive husband who has helped me, and couseling that has given me the tools to forgive my mom. The thing that helped me most, was having someone to talk to, to tell me it's not normal, it's not my fault, I didn't deserve it. Be there to talk and listen if anything else. I just don't see anything good coming from CPS if they are not willing to remove her. Sorry that was so long, I guess it hit a nerve with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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