Teen "love"...

[Cheryl in NM]

When do you allow (or do you even restrict) exclusive relationships? Not necessarily dating, but calling each other bf & gf and saying "I love you"?

 

Ds and a girl from church started this type of relationship unbeknownst to me. It was mainly on the internet, then they started talking on the phone, then they started sneaking off by themselves and church and kissing. When I found out I realized that her mother knew and did nothing to stop it. I talked with ds, pastor talked to both kids and both families sat down and talked to both kids together. We explained how an exclusive relationship is not appropriate at this age and that physical relationships escalate to sex and that they are way too young for that. They are no longer allowed alone together, can only talk on the phone 20 minutes a day and have unlimited email time. Another teen a church told me today that they are saying "I love you" in front of her. They both volunteered at VBS last week; I was there, and they weren't ever alone together, but they were near each other most of the time.

 

Maybe my expectations are wrong? They send 10-20 emails a day and I read them; they only said "I love you in one" in the last few days. But they no that I'll read emails if I suspect something. They were saying it every email. I just think they are awfully young (she's 13, he's 12) for this type of emotional relationship. They want to go to the library with her friends and a mom next week. I'm not able to go; now I'm thinking ds shouldn't go either.

 

On the one hand I think I should just let him experience this while maintaining the supervisored time. On the other hand, I think I need to nip this in the bud, but then how? If I push against it; won't it just make ds want it more?

 

I think I'd take the terrible 2s over this!

[FO4UR]

12 and 13 is very young...

 

Geesh - I think I would set some ground rules....like not being aloud alone with a person of the opposite sex until your married for #1 Sneaking off in church would warrant ds following me around for a couple weeks (sitting in mt SS class....sitting by me in worship.....etc, etc...)

 

As for the actual relationship, I would encourage the friendship SUPERVISED! Invite her over once a week to eat and play games with your family. If her parents knew about the sneaking off at church and didn't care, I wouldn't trust her parents to supervise in the same way you would.;)

[KJB]

Honestly, I just can't imagine this with my 12 year old dd.

 

If she was involved like this, I'd shut it down. No contact. No phone calls. No emails. Nuttin'. And we wouldn't have a big meeting about it either. It would just end silently. "DD, you're not seeing Bob anymore. You and Bob have better things to do than worry about each other. No more Bob. The end."

 

Get a hobby for ds or get him a dog or something.... Keep him too busy with an activity or too exhausted from work of some kind to have time for this kind of behavior.

 

And, fwiw, I'm not a prude, nor am I super duper against dating or super duper conservative about things like this. I just think 12 is way too young. Making a big deal out of defining the relationship (like talking to other parents or pastor) gives the relationship too much meaning. If your son was mine, it'd just be over. They could nod and smile at church and that's about it.

 

He's too young (as in not able to since he can't drive, can't work, has no money of his own that can't be controlled by you, needs rides everywhere, you send him to bed and still make sure he brushes his teeth, etc.) to take the relationship to the next Romeo and Juliet kind of secret romance level. You can stop this if you want to. Maybe not if he were 16 or 17, but at 12 you can shut it down.

 

JMHO and all of that.

 

signed,

KJB the control freak (who understands where your at but wants to send you some control freak vibes 'cause you sound like you could use the validation to release your inner control freak :D )

[Liz CA]

Ds is now 18 but he was not interested at all in girls at the age of 12. If he had been, I would have plainly said to him, perhaps both of them, that they cannot be alone and that they can meet in groups for group activities. I think you and the parents of the girl will have to be diligent and make sure they are not sneaking off, etc.

 

I think this is likely exploratory behavior and with good rules and supervision will probably fizzle out soon. Kids that age are not capable of the kind of emotions that sustain a man/woman relationship but nevetheless there is a lot of interest in it.

 

 

[Starr]

We continually talk about the fastest way to loose a good friend as a teen is to date. I'm sorry it got started before you could put a stop to it. Starting this at 13 will make 17 a really tough time. :) I'd be sure I was the one they spent their time with.

[Orthodox6]

For us, no one-on-one "dating" until age eighteen. Non-negotiable.

 

DS#1 has been seeing the same young lady for over three years. He now is 22-1/2, she is 19. We blessed her parents over-and-over for having the rule that our ds could not be alone with her until she turned 18. (We did not even know her family at all.) The relationship has remained healthy, both spiritually and physically. If God so wills, we hope she will become our first daughter-in-law when the time is right.

 

The ages you mention are too young for this, but our framework is not necessarily the same as yours.

[Rosie_0801]

Tricky. Their emotions are as real to them as ours are to us. In 5 years I'm sure they'll look back and laugh at themselves, but your responsibility as a parent (I suppose anyway, I've only got toddlers so far, fortunately!!) is to make sure there's only stuff to laugh about.

 

Rosie

[dhudson]

I think 16 at the earliest. We talk often about the purpose of "dating" is to get married and since they can't do that until at least 18 then there is no point in "dating".

[cin]

My girls are only 7 & 4, but I tend to agree. If they were sneaking off and kissing, that leads to a very downward spiral. One that neither of them are mature enough for. Dating is a way to look for a mate, and a first step in planning a family. Are either of them ready for a family? (or Baby to put it bluntly!) Then they are NOT ready for kissing and such. My son or daughter would be Tomato Staked to me. And (s)he would be hearing all my thoughts/teachings on dating, family, purity, chastity etc. Until I heard a 'You were right mom, thanks' they'd be tomato staked to me.

[gardening momma]

I think 16 at the earliest. We talk often about the purpose of "dating" is to get married and since they can't do that until at least 18 then there is no point in "dating".

:iagree: A phrase I remember from school--"You date to find a mate."

[abbeyej]

I agree pretty strongly with KJB. I don't consider myself a prude, but at 12, this behavior is totally unacceptable *and* within my ability to curtail. There are all sorts of things that I tell my kids, "No, you may not do X now, but you will be able to some day". At 12, dating, kissing, and saying "I love you" to people outside of our family are just not appropriate or healthy behaviors.

[Jill- OK]

Not against the saying that 12yo is too young for romantic *involvement*, because I agree with that (at least in our current day and age, with the connotations we've set for "legal" ages to do this and that, college, etc.).

 

But I would suggest not minimizing the fact that he's experiencing romantic *feelings*. 12yo is obviously not too young to *feel* those things, since he *is*.

 

And only because I can imagine how it might feel, putting a situation out there and having the only responses that come say, "Wow...I can't imagine a 12yo having feelings like that!!!", etc., I'll share that we had a situation similar to yours with my then-12-yo son, and a neighbor girl.

 

So, you're not the only one. :tongue_smilie:

 

They "liked" each other. Decided to be "boyfriend" and "girlfriend". Held hands. Kissed at least once. (Sigh)

 

And while we did effectively "shut it down", practically speaking ("We believe that 12yo is too young to have a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, and/or be any kind of physically intimate--it progresses too fast"), I would wholeheartedly, emphatically, and passionately urge you to not to shut him down. Just because you're shutting down a portion of this type of relationship (I think you risk making it even more attractive if you block all interaction with her) doesn't mean you have to close down communication about it. I believe he needs to express it (not to her, in private, but to you and Dad), and you need to uncover what it is that he's searching for, by diving into this sort of situation.

 

Talktalktalktalktalk about it. And then talk about it, some more. Don't sweep it under the rug.

 

Sometimes, I believe that sexual maturity comes early for some kids, and sometimes, it's fueled by trying to find something to fill a need. I was a kid who liked boys at 12yo, and I think it was a combination of those two things. ::Shrug:: People mature at different rates, and might need certain sorts of intervention at different ages, lol. (You might have a talk with one child at 12 that you don't need to have with another until 17).

 

In other words...don't get too wrung out over this. I know that many times people decry the early sexualization of minor children in our culture, and I do agree that it's a problem...but for thousands of years, people were considered "mature" when they hit puberty, and sometimes, nature can arrive before we're ready for it.

 

He's still young, but he is growing up, and I just hope that it doesn't worry or scare you, that he's experienced a different timetable than other kids. ((Hugs))

 

As for my son's story...he and the girl decided that they needed to stop being boyfriend/girlfriend. (I resisted the urge to reiterate that we TOLD them that, because in the end I believe it was more meaningful that they--or possibly just he--were convinced, rather than simply ordered. Although I don't think there's anything wrong with that, either, if it's the only way.)

 

He went for a few years without expressing any sort of "like" for a girl, again, but now, at fourteen, he does like a friend of his sister's. And his fifteen year old sister likes one of HIS friends. (Sigh)

 

As far as how we handle it...it's much the same as then. You're too young to have exclusive relationships. Marriage and all that stuff is years away (modern ways usually require some sort of college degree to maintain a family, so we've set that as a sort of suggestion about when marriage would make the most sense)...so what's the hurry? Have a wide circle of friends that can include possible beaus/girlfriends, and just keep it light, for now.

 

(I hope that some of this rambling was useful...:tongue_smilie:)

Edited June 14, 2009 by Jill, OK

[TravelingChris]

Wow- that is so young. We don't do the whole courtship thing for many reasons but we are Christians and think that is too young. The earliest I would allow any couple dating would be 16, I think. Yes, I do have a 20 year old so we have sort of gone through this once but he wasn't interested until 17, almost 18 and he was away at college at that time. My middle is almost 16 and not interested in dating. My youngest is a very extroverted girl of 12 and also not interested yet. Even if she was, no dating until 16. We do allow boy girl interactions like progressive dinners and chaperoned homeschool dances earlier but those are group activities. The whole sneaking around thing is troubling.

 

At one church we were members a long time ago, my then 7 or 8 year old son pointed out that the youth group there was out of control. He saw it because he would be going through the halls during Sunday School coming back from church pageant rehearsal or something like that. Anyway, the program was not well supervised and the mid highers and older were kissing in secxluded corners and such like. I have seen in other churches dating behavior that I thought was questionable too- high schooler with older by at least 6 years adult, etc.

[Ginevra]

I have a 12yodd and she is not allowed to pretend to have a boyfriend. I know there are boys she likes and very probably there are some that like her back, but she's not allowed to play being in a romantic relationship. If it already started, I would shut it down. Since it hasn't, I mention it now and then. I've set direct perameters when she's going to be out of my supervision, for example, I've said, "You may not pair off with anyone. You must stay in the main area with the group. You may dance with a boy, but no kissing." I accept that she can and does have the "feelings", but she's simply not going to act on it, or at least with my willing consent.

 

From my own upbringing, I am sorry to say it leads nowhere good when girls are allowed to play boyfriend/girlfriend when they are 12. I know my own parents didn't take any stand on this and I and all my sisters got involved in things not mentioned at ages I'd rather not advertise. My parents did have certain rules, like we weren't allowed to have boys in our bedrooms, but they didn't shut down the displays of affection and love-talk. At the very least, it is better to help your child develop interests outside of who is cute/hot-looking. I would not let my child focus mainly on *this* at 12....or 13 or 14 or 15. 16 is my bottom age for my kids being able to openly call someone their boyfriend/girlfriend.

[Murphy101]

I would say...

 

"love" makes us better people

it's not love when it turns us into lying or sneaking people

 

so because he lied and sneaked around - the relationship is over.

(and really that's a reasonable consequence because that's usually what happens to relationships where people act like that)

 

I would NEVER tell my kid they couldn't be "serious".

 

Because if they are having relationships - that's a serious thing.

 

I don't want them just playing around and treating the opposite sex as a passing amusment! (I know you wouldn't intend that, but to ME, that's the way it ends up far too often.)

 

I also really disliked the the best way to ruin a friendship opinion. My dh and I met when I was 16. He's still my best friend. Isn't that what we want them to seek? A life-long loving friendship?

 

And I would continue the same conversations we've been having for years, that they CAN talk to me. That being intimate with someone is serious and if they aren't ready for the consequence of it (marriage/babies/commitment) then they shouldn't put themselves in that situation.

 

In the mean time, all of his friends are more than welcome in our home. And in a few years, if he does find someone special, she will be welcome here too. Even if it's that same girl.

 

Of course that would be the conversation we'd have after I'd totally spazed and freaked out over it with dh out of ear shot of the kids.;)

[Impish]

I'm sorry you're dealing with this, and pray that you'll find the wisdom to manage it so that everyone emerges unscathed and its a learning experience without too much heartbreak for anyone.

 

I'm trying my darnedest to avoid such a situation myself. Diva came home yesterday afternoon, all excited, because a neighbourhood sort of friend invited her to a Cadet dinner. That evening. I said NO. Waaaaaay too 'date-like' for this Momma, thankyouverymuch. Of course, Wolf was out and wouldn't be back until after bedtime, so I was on my own for this. Normally, Diva would have the option of consulting the other parent, and it has happened that Wolf and I disagree. We'll then talk to each other, and sometimes the answer will change. So, I offered to call SpecialMama (member here) and get her take on it. Safe in the knowlege that she'd agree with me of course ;) (Her response was, Not til she's 18!)

 

I'd rather AVOID the situation altogether than figure out how to deal with it :o I don't know if that makes me prepared, or a coward :lol:

[Heather in Neverland]

Honestly, I just can't imagine this with my 12 year old dd.

 

If she was involved like this, I'd shut it down. No contact. No phone calls. No emails. Nuttin'. And we wouldn't have a big meeting about it either. It would just end silently. "DD, you're not seeing Bob anymore. You and Bob have better things to do than worry about each other. No more Bob. The end."

 

Get a hobby for ds or get him a dog or something.... Keep him too busy with an activity or too exhausted from work of some kind to have time for this kind of behavior.

 

And, fwiw, I'm not a prude, nor am I super duper against dating or super duper conservative about things like this. I just think 12 is way too young. Making a big deal out of defining the relationship (like talking to other parents or pastor) gives the relationship too much meaning. If your son was mine, it'd just be over. They could nod and smile at church and that's about it.

 

He's too young (as in not able to since he can't drive, can't work, has no money of his own that can't be controlled by you, needs rides everywhere, you send him to bed and still make sure he brushes his teeth, etc.) to take the relationship to the next Romeo and Juliet kind of secret romance level. You can stop this if you want to. Maybe not if he were 16 or 17, but at 12 you can shut it down.

 

JMHO and all of that.

 

signed,

KJB the control freak (who understands where your at but wants to send you some control freak vibes 'cause you sound like you could use the validation to release your inner control freak :D )

 

:iagree: and AMEN. Adolescence + hormones + opportunity = lots of bad decisions. Ask me how I know. Shut it down, gently but firmly. You have to do what is best for him even if he doesn't agree. I wish my mom had.

[Cheryl in NM]

signed,

KJB the control freak (who understands where your at but wants to send you some control freak vibes 'cause you sound like you could use the validation to release your inner control freak :D )

 

This is too funny! How do you know me so well!?

 

Thanks so much everyone! I agree that his feelings are just that, but it's the actions that are inappropriate. It just occurred to me that this will cause him to view me as an enemy, more so than lately. I've been very disturbed at the distance between us and have been searching for a way to close that gulf. Dh says it's just natural. I disagree; I don't think it *has* to happen, but in our family it *is* happenning.:crying:

 

I know that my #1 job is to raise up a godly young man and that someday he will thank me. I just don't like that he'll *hate* me now. *sigh*

[ChristusG]

I would shut it down. I wish my parents would listen to the same advice. My little sister is now 15 years old. She started a relationship with a guy when she was 13 (he was 16). They met on the internet, he lives 4 hours away, and my parents allowed him to start visiting her. He would stay overnight, in another room, of course. But she's allowed to hug him, kiss him, put their arms all over each other, etc. My mom even encouraged her to kiss him. This is all happening at 13, 14, and 15 years old. Now he has just graduated high school and is now living at their house for a month. But my mom has taken this boy in and has become obsessed with him. My parents are Christians. I know that's not the type of situation you are talking about, but I have learned one thing from this. I WILL NOT ALLOW DATING AT ALL. No. Period. Nothing good can come of adult emotion and decisions having to be made by young people.

[mama2cntrykids]

Not the OP, but wow! *I* appreciate all the insight into the situation. My mom didn't stop this kind of behavior with me either and there was alot of things that I did WAAAY too young. I wish that those things would have never happened but they did and I've learned from them.

 

That said, my youngest ds6 was saying a few weeks ago how he and a couple of girls at school/bus had KISSED. I can understand the bus, only one adult and he's watching the road, but school? I asked where the teacher was and he said she was busy doing something. I explained to him that it was NOT ok to be kissing ANY girl except mom. This is one of many, many, many reasons we're HSing this coming school year. Yikes!

[Cheryl in NM]

I checked ds's history on his Internet Explorer and he had deleted it! This after getting grounded last week because he was looking up certain s*x acts that he had overheard and was curious about. We talked to him then about how he needs to ask his dad or me about those things to not do any internet searches for it. So when I asked him why he deleted his history today he told me that it was too embarrassing to ask his dad those questions. So I told him that he just lost his internet.

 

I hate this! He also uses the the internet to look up history stuff, of his own free will! We don't have the money to pay for a filter program and haven't been successful getting a free one to work properly. I guess he can only have internet if I'm sitting right beside him or at the library.

 

Is keeping your kid off the internet okay? It just seems so restrictive, but if he won't control himself what else can I do?

[Wyndie]

I checked ds's history on his Internet Explorer and he had deleted it! This after getting grounded last week because he was looking up certain s*x acts that he had overheard and was curious about. We talked to him then about how he needs to ask his dad or me about those things to not do any internet searches for it. So when I asked him why he deleted his history today he told me that it was too embarrassing to ask his dad those questions. So I told him that he just lost his internet.

 

I hate this! He also uses the the internet to look up history stuff, of his own free will! We don't have the money to pay for a filter program and haven't been successful getting a free one to work properly. I guess he can only have internet if I'm sitting right beside him or at the library.

 

Is keeping your kid off the internet okay? It just seems so restrictive, but if he won't control himself what else can I do?

 

Oh my, yes it would be ok!! You have to protect him even if it's from himself.

 

Does he have another adult male he could ask these questions of? I can understand being too embarrassed to ask your parents so maybe another adult who shares your beliefs would be able to bridge the gap for him?

 

:grouphug: I personally do not think you have overreacted at all

[Garga]

If you haven't read Hold on to your Kids, you might want to. It's about how to bridge gaps between kids and parents (since you mentioned that you feel he's pulling away.)

[Cheryl in NM]

If you haven't read Hold on to your Kids, you might want to. It's about how to bridge gaps between kids and parents (since you mentioned that you feel he's pulling away.)

 

Thanks I requested it from my library. I've seen it recommended here before; just keep forgetting to check it out!

[Cheryl in NM]

Oh my, yes it would be ok!! You have to protect him even if it's from himself.

 

Does he have another adult male he could ask these questions of? I can understand being too embarrassed to ask your parents so maybe another adult who shares your beliefs would be able to bridge the gap for him?

 

:grouphug: I personally do not think you have overreacted at all

 

Ds keeps telling me that the internet is his link to his friends. He says if he were ps then he'd see them everyday. Of course, none of his friends live in our school district because we are rural and they are city slickers! Anyway, I feel like I'm cutting him off from the world, but I will not watch another teen go the way of internet p*rn. We struggled with my step-son until he moved out, but Dh would not cut his internet off. Of course, it's a different story when the kid has another house to move to if they don't like your rules! My poor ds has to just deal with both parents together!

 

I'll have to think about another male figure. That's difficult, we're not real close with many people and I'm afraid he might not be comfortable talking with them either. Of course, our other concern is just how much info to give concerning these s*x acts. I don't want to give any, but then he'll only search out the answers. I'm just not sure what's appropriate here.

[Tree House Academy]

12 and 13 are VERY young. :( I had sex for the first time at 14, so just because they are still young doesn't mean they don't think of things like sex and physical relationships. I would not "nip it in the bud" but I would make sure to supervise VERY closely and not leave them alone together at.all. Ever.

 

You can't stop him from saying he loves her...and even if you could, you won't stop him from feeling what he, at least, THINKS he feels.

[katilac]

I checked ds's history on his Internet Explorer and he had deleted it! This after getting grounded last week because he was looking up certain s*x acts that he had overheard and was curious about. We talked to him then about how he needs to ask his dad or me about those things to not do any internet searches for it. So when I asked him why he deleted his history today he told me that it was too embarrassing to ask his dad those questions. So I told him that he just lost his internet.

 

I hate this! He also uses the the internet to look up history stuff, of his own free will! We don't have the money to pay for a filter program and haven't been successful getting a free one to work properly. I guess he can only have internet if I'm sitting right beside him or at the library.

 

Is keeping your kid off the internet okay? It just seems so restrictive, but if he won't control himself what else can I do?

 

well, I'm going to have to say that it IS pretty mortifying to talk to your parents about specific sex acts, y'know? I'm very open with my kids, we've talked often about puberty and the more, ahem, straighforward sex acts, but I can well imagine there will be things they want to learn about from a source other than mom or dad.

 

and that's cool, imo. if you want to avoid the internet as a source of info (and I certainly understand why you might), can you offer him another source of information? books that go beyond the basics?

 

I don't think a kid needs the internet to survive, so yeah, it's okay for him not to have access, it's just that cutting off internet access is not going to make this issue go away. the kid wants info, and I don't think there's much you can say or do to convince him that his dad is the correct source for that info.

 

if he has had the basics of sex from dad/parents, if he knows your stance on sexual behavior, then I'd be fine with letting him move on to other sources of information.

[Impish]

Yup, puter would be gonzo here, for a heck of a long time, and there would be some sort of extra chore issue as well. One for the breaking of the rule, and another consequence for the trying to cover it up.

[Perry]

well, I'm going to have to say that it IS pretty mortifying to talk to your parents about specific sex acts, y'know? I'm very open with my kids, we've talked often about puberty and the more, ahem, straighforward sex acts, but I can well imagine there will be things they want to learn about from a source other than mom or dad.

 

and that's cool, imo. if you want to avoid the internet as a source of info (and I certainly understand why you might), can you offer him another source of information? books that go beyond the basics?

 

I don't think a kid needs the internet to survive, so yeah, it's okay for him not to have access, it's just that cutting off internet access is not going to make this issue go away. the kid wants info, and I don't think there's much you can say or do to convince him that his dad is the correct source for that info.

 

if he has had the basics of sex from dad/parents, if he knows your stance on sexual behavior, then I'd be fine with letting him move on to other sources of information.

 

:iagree:

[Cheryl in NM]

I don't have a problem, per se, with ds knowing the logistics of sex acts, but I don't want him viewing porn. I mean, really, how many of us actually look/act like that? Besides that, porn portrays promiscuity. It's just not the message my 12 year old needs when he's just figuring out there's more to his body than the many noises he can create with it!

 

What other sources are available?

 

I'm thinking of allowing some supervised internet time down the road, but I don't think he'll get unlimited on his own computer again. He's proven he can't be trusted. So besides the sex issue, there is now a disobedience and trust issue. This is the 4th time in a year we've had this issue. So he's proven his unwillingness to obey us.

[Jill- OK]

...if you want to avoid the internet as a source of info (and I certainly understand why you might), can you offer him another source of information? books that go beyond the basics?

 

I don't think a kid needs the internet to survive, so yeah, it's okay for him not to have access, it's just that cutting off internet access is not going to make this issue go away. the kid wants info, and I don't think there's much you can say or do to convince him that his dad is the correct source for that info.

 

if he has had the basics of sex from dad/parents, if he knows your stance on sexual behavior, then I'd be fine with letting him move on to other sources of information.

 

If you're a Christian, you might consider looking at some books, for him, and for you guys, that deal with this topic from a Christian viewpoint. (Sex, specific questions, etc.)

 

Talk to him about the dangers of what he'll see, just looking for "information" on the Internet, and how addictive p*rn can be.

 

I'd be fine with taking away Internet access, but since you said you guys are so isolated, would you consider using a filter so that he could still use it to connect with friends? (*After* his restriction ends, of course). I don't prefer to have my kids' relationships take place primarily through computer contact, but if you guys aren't close to anyone, physically, I can see how that would be hard.

 

He *will* have to learn how to fight the temptation, and be around a computer, eventually. Net Nanny or somesuch might make it easier until he's developed a more mature willpower, though. You can also find software that will let you check up on your users...even if they delete history. Might be worth looking into. (Sorry you're dealing with this additional stress.)

[KingM]

I was reading the OP at first and think you were overreacting, but I had fixed in my mind that these kids were about sixteen or seventeen. 12 and 13? Wow, that is very, very young for this sort of behavior.

 

At that age I might have sent a note to a girl in class, but I'd have never thought of talking to her or heaven forbid, kissing her. As far as I know, my 13 year old son is just entering the "admire girls from afar" stage, which I hope will last another two or three years, if not longer.

 

My vote is with the allow heavily supervised friendship. I might also have a calm discussion with the parents of the girl and hope to set some mutual boundaries.

[Cheryl in NM]

I was reading the OP at first and think you were overreacting, but I had fixed in my mind that these kids were about sixteen or seventeen. 12 and 13? Wow, that is very, very young for this sort of behavior.

 

At that age I might have sent a note to a girl in class, but I'd have never thought of talking to her or heaven forbid, kissing her. As far as I know, my 13 year old son is just entering the "admire girls from afar" stage, which I hope will last another two or three years, if not longer.

 

My vote is with the allow heavily supervised friendship. I might also have a calm discussion with the parents of the girl and hope to set some mutual boundaries.

 

Thank you so much! I was hoping to get a man's opinion, also. Maybe I should have titled the thread "Wanted...all board men...":tongue_smilie: Seriously, though. Dh and I feel a little out of our element here.

[Starr]

I wouldn't feel bad about the internet. Also having them communicate so often doesn't make it easier. Maybe he could write her poetry and you could call it school. :) I have a friend that has been a social worker in a big city for many years. She says the most missed addiction is porn. I wouldn't take it lightly. I'm sorry this is so difficult for you. I would feel the same way. Hedgebuilders is a very conservative filter service that doesn't cost much. You might want to check them out.

[Loupelou]

I agree with the other posters that 12 & 13 is way too young for such a developed relationship. I don't see anything wrong or overbearing in you taking his internet privileges away or in allowing them a supervised friendship. They are too young to be doing anything else. They are children and as such should be enjoying this time having fun, experiencing life with many friends of both sexes. We don't allow any kind of steady dating around here until they are 16 and even then in groups until they are 18. As to the porn that does need to be nipped in the bud. I have personally seen this addiction ravage and destroy more than one family and my own brother has lost everything dear to him because of it. It may not be an addiction yet, but it only takes one look. Here's some stats:

 

http://www.safefamilies.org/sfStats.php

 

You are coming from a place of unconditional love and concern. Sometimes that responsibility weighs upon you as the parent more than others. Don't feel bad or guilty for standing up for your child and fighting for his childhood, it's the best gift that you can give to him.

[Melissa in Australia]

It is a really good idea to have the computer in the living room, not in a bedroom or office.

[Kathy in MD]

Not against the saying that 12yo is too young for romantic *involvement*, because I agree with that (at least in our current day and age, with the connotations we've set for "legal" ages to do this and that, college, etc.).

 

But I would suggest not minimizing the fact that he's experiencing romantic *feelings*. 12yo is obviously not too young to *feel* those things, since he *is*.

 

And only because I can imagine how it might feel, putting a situation out there and having the only responses that come say, "Wow...I can't imagine a 12yo having feelings like that!!!", etc., I'll share that we had a situation similar to yours with my then-12-yo son, and a neighbor girl.

 

So, you're not the only one. :tongue_smilie:

 

They "liked" each other. Decided to be "boyfriend" and "girlfriend". Held hands. Kissed at least once. (Sigh)

 

And while we did effectively "shut it down", practically speaking ("We believe that 12yo is too young to have a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, and/or be any kind of physically intimate--it progresses too fast"), I would wholeheartedly, emphatically, and passionately urge you to not to shut him down. Just because you're shutting down a portion of this type of relationship (I think you risk making it even more attractive if you block all interaction with her) doesn't mean you have to close down communication about it. I believe he needs to express it (not to her, in private, but to you and Dad), and you need to uncover what it is that he's searching for, by diving into this sort of situation.

 

Talktalktalktalktalk about it. And then talk about it, some more. Don't sweep it under the rug.

 

Sometimes, I believe that sexual maturity comes early for some kids, and sometimes, it's fueled by trying to find something to fill a need. I was a kid who liked boys at 12yo, and I think it was a combination of those two things. ::Shrug:: People mature at different rates, and might need certain sorts of intervention at different ages, lol. (You might have a talk with one child at 12 that you don't need to have with another until 17).

 

In other words...don't get too wrung out over this. I know that many times people decry the early sexualization of minor children in our culture, and I do agree that it's a problem...but for thousands of years, people were considered "mature" when they hit puberty, and sometimes, nature can arrive before we're ready for it.

 

He's still young, but he is growing up, and I just hope that it doesn't worry or scare you, that he's experienced a different timetable than other kids. ((Hugs))

 

As for my son's story...he and the girl decided that they needed to stop being boyfriend/girlfriend. (I resisted the urge to reiterate that we TOLD them that, because in the end I believe it was more meaningful that they--or possibly just he--were convinced, rather than simply ordered. Although I don't think there's anything wrong with that, either, if it's the only way.)

 

He went for a few years without expressing any sort of "like" for a girl, again, but now, at fourteen, he does like a friend of his sister's. And his fifteen year old sister likes one of HIS friends. (Sigh)

 

As far as how we handle it...it's much the same as then. You're too young to have exclusive relationships. Marriage and all that stuff is years away (modern ways usually require some sort of college degree to maintain a family, so we've set that as a sort of suggestion about when marriage would make the most sense)...so what's the hurry? Have a wide circle of friends that can include possible beaus/girlfriends, and just keep it light, for now.

 

(I hope that some of this rambling was useful...:tongue_smilie:)

 

:iagree:. As far as I'm concerned, it is way too young, but the kids are feeling these emotions. You're walking a fine line on how to handle it without encouraging it or making them feel like martyrs and becoming sneaky.

 

My inexperienced thoughts is to acknowledge their feelings and keep them busy in other situations. Try to get them exposed to a large number of other kids at the same time, but as I recall that's ot that easy for you.

 

I did ask my "diplomatic" 15 ds what his suggestion was. He suggested slapping your ds along side the head. :glare: Not diplomatic, but it does give the view of what a slightly older teen thinks about puppy love.

[Kathy in MD]

..... It just occurred to me that this will cause him to view me as an enemy, more so than lately. I've been very disturbed at the distance between us and have been searching for a way to close that gulf. Dh says it's just natural. I disagree; I don't think it *has* to happen, but in our family it *is* happenning.:crying:

 

I know that my #1 job is to raise up a godly young man and that someday he will thank me. I just don't like that he'll *hate* me now. *sigh*

 

I agree with your dh that it IS natural. Remember when your ds was 3 and he'd say "I hate you!", or he'd try to break away? The same thing is going on now, you juat can't pick him up and corral him the same way.

 

To keep good, strong ties during this period I recommend that you schedule alone time for just you and your ds for 30 min a week doing what HE wants to do. (school doesn't count!!!!) Have your dh do this as well. The distance and the relunctance to come to you for advice will still exist, but it will be reduced. Also schedule fun family things. He may object and have a bad attitude at first for every trip, but he'll probably snap out of it. I stopped doig this for a while ad had big problems. I restarted just a portion of this (family trips) and it made a fast improvement in 15yo ds's attitude.

[Kathy in MD]

well, I'm going to have to say that it IS pretty mortifying to talk to your parents about specific sex acts, y'know? I'm very open with my kids, we've talked often about puberty and the more, ahem, straighforward sex acts, but I can well imagine there will be things they want to learn about from a source other than mom or dad.

 

and that's cool, imo. if you want to avoid the internet as a source of info (and I certainly understand why you might), can you offer him another source of information? books that go beyond the basics?

 

I don't think a kid needs the internet to survive, so yeah, it's okay for him not to have access, it's just that cutting off internet access is not going to make this issue go away. the kid wants info, and I don't think there's much you can say or do to convince him that his dad is the correct source for that info.

 

if he has had the basics of sex from dad/parents, if he knows your stance on sexual behavior, then I'd be fine with letting him move on to other sources of information.

 

I agree here. And once again it's a fine line, how do you satisfy curiosity without encouraging experimentation? I think this is one that you can't predict the outcome. Some will get ideas to try out, some will have their curiosity satified through the books (maybe even grossed out) and others will experiment just to satisfy curiosity because the books weren't available.

 

If you do decide the book route, you might try some of the more explicit romance novels, where emotions are left in, or the classic shocker which is probably passe now, Joy of S**. These will be far more tame than a lot on the internet. And yes, I did shut off internet for my ds when he hit this curiosity stage. And then dh gave ds the password because it was too much trouble :glare::glare: and triple :glare:

[MamaT]

Honestly, I just can't imagine this with my 12 year old dd.

 

If she was involved like this, I'd shut it down. No contact. No phone calls. No emails. Nuttin'. And we wouldn't have a big meeting about it either. It would just end silently. "DD, you're not seeing Bob anymore. You and Bob have better things to do than worry about each other. No more Bob. The end."

 

Get a hobby for ds or get him a dog or something.... Keep him too busy with an activity or too exhausted from work of some kind to have time for this kind of behavior.

 

And, fwiw, I'm not a prude, nor am I super duper against dating or super duper conservative about things like this. I just think 12 is way too young. Making a big deal out of defining the relationship (like talking to other parents or pastor) gives the relationship too much meaning. If your son was mine, it'd just be over. They could nod and smile at church and that's about it.

 

He's too young (as in not able to since he can't drive, can't work, has no money of his own that can't be controlled by you, needs rides everywhere, you send him to bed and still make sure he brushes his teeth, etc.) to take the relationship to the next Romeo and Juliet kind of secret romance level. You can stop this if you want to. Maybe not if he were 16 or 17, but at 12 you can shut it down.

 

JMHO and all of that.

 

signed,

KJB the control freak (who understands where your at but wants to send you some control freak vibes 'cause you sound like you could use the validation to release your inner control freak :D )

 

:iagree: This is just what I wanted to say. And yes, I would take the internet away and maybe even tomato-stake for a while.

[Cheryl in NM]

So, how do you tomato steak a 12 year old? Everything I do or say elicits some snide comment from him.

[MamaT]

My 12yo is a girl, but if it was one of my boys they would stick with dad. My dh is self-employed, so he would go to work with him, would not be allowed to hole up in his room, etc.

 

In my house, snide comments gets sentence writing regarding respect.

Edited June 15, 2009 by MamaT
added something

[HayesW]

I know personally two couples who began dating at young ages, 14/15 and have now been married for 15 years and 18 years. I think I would discuss the aspect of LOVE and it being for your SPOUSE. Talk about the kind of loves found in the Bible, phileos, eros, agape, and what they mean. Make it a word study and a Bible study topic. Also read Proverbs. I think this is a GREAT place for teens to study. It talks about young people, wisdom ,knowledge, and lots about relationships and what is and is not appropriate.

[HayesW]

Oh, and the sneaking around and making out, um no way. Lying, manipulation, etc. I think a talk with the girl's mama is also in order.

[Cheryl in NM]

Oh, and the sneaking around and making out, um no way. Lying, manipulation, etc. I think a talk with the girl's mama is also in order.

 

The mom knew about the relationship before I did. She had asked her daughter if she had kissed my son yet, but claimed to me that she didn't know they were sneaking around kissing at church. She believes that we should let them have a relationship, but supervise it.

 

I've been very disappointed in her lack of concern. I really thought the parents of girls were supposed to be more protective!

[FriedClams]

So, how do you tomato steak a 12 year old? Everything I do or say elicits some snide comment from him.

 

It sounds like there might be some general growing up issues here. Is he testing boundaries everywhere? If so (and I don't have older kids, I am just thinking as I type) that he may be needing something useful to bridge the gap as he grows up and matures into adulthood. Something to focus all that energy and angst into. More work (and responsibility), an apprenticeship (with a great mentor who won't let any silliness go on and work him until he's too tire to be silly, LOL!), etc. Something with purpose. What's his passion? Woodworking? Time to build a shed on his own - a real one - a big one that will take awhile - for a real purpose that will help the family. Horses? Time to get doing something going on there. I am a firm believer that idle time is not a great thing for most teens/tweens. I would also address the issues of purity, sexuality, etc. and discuss those openly with him while finding gainful (not time wasting silly, but something that helps him to grow into a man) employment of his time. Mow lawns, dig ditches, work on the farm alongside an older man from church - something.

[SonshineLearner]

Tricky. Their emotions are as real to them as ours are to us. In 5 years I'm sure they'll look back and laugh at themselves, but your responsibility as a parent (I suppose anyway, I've only got toddlers so far, fortunately!!) is to make sure there's only stuff to laugh about.

 

Rosie

 

So Rosie, are you saying you'd be ok with this? I'm curious:001_smile: I'd say that they've done enough to laugh about...and now they're "caught".

 

As far as what I'd let our daughters do, it's absolutely nothing. They just aren't allowed to date. They are not ready emotionally ,or any other way, to be involved in dating...until they would be ready to purchase their own dwelling. Not that when they are dating they have to move out, just that they have to be ready.

 

I think it's respectful to cherish the relationships of girl/boy (really should be man/woman) and not allow them to make mistakes until they are theirs to make.

 

It's kinda like....I wouldn't allow my child to smoke. It's not their decision. (Although, of course, marriage & families are good:)) But, I'm just saying that some decisions are just not children's to make. In my opinion, while you can still call your son or daughter "A child" they shouldn't be in a relationship that can turn into them having "children".

 

If our daughters really felt like there was a "young man" that they wanted to pursue a relationship, we might agree to things such as family dinners and such.

 

I've read at least one secular article about teens and them dating before their character and personality are fully developed and that if they date while still maturing, their personality is normall altered because of wanting to please their "partner".

 

Carrie:-)

[chaik76]

Not against the saying that 12yo is too young for romantic *involvement*, because I agree with that (at least in our current day and age, with the connotations we've set for "legal" ages to do this and that, college, etc.).

 

But I would suggest not minimizing the fact that he's experiencing romantic *feelings*. 12yo is obviously not too young to *feel* those things, since he *is*.

 

And only because I can imagine how it might feel, putting a situation out there and having the only responses that come say, "Wow...I can't imagine a 12yo having feelings like that!!!", etc., I'll share that we had a situation similar to yours with my then-12-yo son, and a neighbor girl.

 

So, you're not the only one. :tongue_smilie:

 

They "liked" each other. Decided to be "boyfriend" and "girlfriend". Held hands. Kissed at least once. (Sigh)

 

And while we did effectively "shut it down", practically speaking ("We believe that 12yo is too young to have a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, and/or be any kind of physically intimate--it progresses too fast"), I would wholeheartedly, emphatically, and passionately urge you to not to shut him down. Just because you're shutting down a portion of this type of relationship (I think you risk making it even more attractive if you block all interaction with her) doesn't mean you have to close down communication about it. I believe he needs to express it (not to her, in private, but to you and Dad), and you need to uncover what it is that he's searching for, by diving into this sort of situation.

 

Talktalktalktalktalk about it. And then talk about it, some more. Don't sweep it under the rug.

 

Sometimes, I believe that sexual maturity comes early for some kids, and sometimes, it's fueled by trying to find something to fill a need. I was a kid who liked boys at 12yo, and I think it was a combination of those two things. ::Shrug:: People mature at different rates, and might need certain sorts of intervention at different ages, lol. (You might have a talk with one child at 12 that you don't need to have with another until 17).

 

In other words...don't get too wrung out over this. I know that many times people decry the early sexualization of minor children in our culture, and I do agree that it's a problem...but for thousands of years, people were considered "mature" when they hit puberty, and sometimes, nature can arrive before we're ready for it.

 

He's still young, but he is growing up, and I just hope that it doesn't worry or scare you, that he's experienced a different timetable than other kids. ((Hugs))

 

As for my son's story...he and the girl decided that they needed to stop being boyfriend/girlfriend. (I resisted the urge to reiterate that we TOLD them that, because in the end I believe it was more meaningful that they--or possibly just he--were convinced, rather than simply ordered. Although I don't think there's anything wrong with that, either, if it's the only way.)

 

He went for a few years without expressing any sort of "like" for a girl, again, but now, at fourteen, he does like a friend of his sister's. And his fifteen year old sister likes one of HIS friends. (Sigh)

 

As far as how we handle it...it's much the same as then. You're too young to have exclusive relationships. Marriage and all that stuff is years away (modern ways usually require some sort of college degree to maintain a family, so we've set that as a sort of suggestion about when marriage would make the most sense)...so what's the hurry? Have a wide circle of friends that can include possible beaus/girlfriends, and just keep it light, for now.

 

(I hope that some of this rambling was useful...:tongue_smilie:)

I agree.

 

The mom knew about the relationship before I did. She had asked her daughter if she had kissed my son yet, but claimed to me that she didn't know they were sneaking around kissing at church. She believes that we should let them have a relationship, but supervise it.

 

I've been very disappointed in her lack of concern. I really thought the parents of girls were supposed to be more protective!

She may have different standards than you. Except for the sneaking around, I haven't seen anything here that bothers me. I would not "shut down" the relationship as it is likely to build resentment and try to make him sneak more.

The best advice I ever got was a mom who told me (and some others) "love on them". Invite the girl over for family nights and dinner. Always be kind to her. Have her over to play board games or freeze tag, etc.

[Cheryl in NM]

I agree.

 

 

She may have different standards than you. Except for the sneaking around, I haven't seen anything here that bothers me. I would not "shut down" the relationship as it is likely to build resentment and try to make him sneak more.

The best advice I ever got was a mom who told me (and some others) "love on them". Invite the girl over for family nights and dinner. Always be kind to her. Have her over to play board games or freeze tag, etc.

 

I understand the different standards. But usually the parents of girls are trying to keep their girls from having sex, not encouraging behavior that leads to sex. She "seemed" upset about the sneaking around but when we are at church I'm the one checking on the kids to make sure they aren't alone. I feel like she's only giving me "lip service" and that it's not very important to her.

[Veronica in VA]

They are way too young, but since it has sort of started already you have to ba e little careful. I would also let ds know that since he was less than truthful with you his restrictions will be greater than if he had not sneaked around and lied. I wouldn't allow anything outside of a group situation, i.e. if they are both helping at VBS fine, but no going back to either one's house after, etc. There is a line that you have to walk now, I think, and if you say no completely now, I think you risk the whole Romeo and Juilet thing. Your ds will probably get his heart hurt by this girl, 12 year old girls aren't usually known for sticking with a boy at this age, and respecting the boy's feelings, unfortunately. So when it ends, I would say no further relationships for a few years. Also, I would probably allow limited internet, but make sure he knows you are going to monitor his email.Try to get him involved in something like volunteering at a nursing home or anything where he is helping others so he can keep busy. I don't agree with po*n viewing, but I don't think it is unusual for children to check it out. They are curious, and I remember stories where young boys would look for their father's stack of magazines. Unfortunately, the internet allows a lot worse things for boys to see. Get a filter, but maybe explain the explotation of women in that industry and how hurtful it is.

Incidentally, my dd met her boyfriend in her 7th grade year and they became good friends. They didn't date until she was 14 (even that was too young really) and they are planning to get married after she is done with community college and he is done with his Bachelor's which is 2 years away.

 

Just some ideas - hope it helps,

 

Veronica