Teenage girl dragged into the pool by a teacher

[mommybee]

This story makes me so mad.

http://abc7.com/news/teacher-charged-for-forcing-student-into-pool/405494

[Butter]

Page not found.  Some letters got added to the end of the URL.  Try this one http://abc7.com/news/teacher-charged-for-forcing-student-into-pool/405494/

 

They were both wrong.  He went way overboard and never should have dragged her.  She was disrespectful and didn't want to get in the pool for class because she'd ruin her hair and had plans later.  Students really need to be respectful and actually do what they are supposed to in class.  Teachers should never resort to physical force.  Her parents are right.  She should have been punished, but not like that.

[zoobie]

Paid leave? He assaulted a child! What the hell?

[shawthorne44]

And, he was put on paid leave - twice.  Poor baby.  

If you didn't participate in gym, you got a zero for the day.  That is it.  

 

In high school the female gym teachers would ogle the girls while showering so no one wanted to sweat.  When we were supposed to run around the track, most girls just flat refused.  

[skimomma]

Not really on topic....but I'm surprised girls are allowed to wear two piece swimsuits in gym class.  I have no problem with bikinis (I wear one myself) but I don't think any of us would have dreamed of trying to wear one during high school gym class.  Maybe I am just old.

[creekland]

That teacher was definitely wrong with his behavior.

 

So was the student.

 

I'm not 100% sure what I'd have done if I'd have been the parent, though I like to think my girls (if I'd had any) would never have been that spoiled to make it a situation like this.

 

Nonetheless, there's no excuse for the teacher's behavior even when dealing with a spoiled brat (sorry if the word is offensive to some, but it is what comes to mind).  I can't fathom putting a hand on a student in a punishment or "forcing" situation like this.

[Kalypso]

I am just so surprised that the teacher thought that doing that was okay. She should have just gotten a zero for the day for not participating. Amazing.

[foxbridgeacademy]

The worst that should have happened to the girl is that she would get a zero for the day, if she got mouthy send her to the office.  If it had been my child I would have had her in the ER for scrapes/cuts/bruises, to document the assault then pressured the police to arrest him immediately. But the small chance of something like that happening to my minor child is one of the many reasons I homeschool (DD is kind of mouthy so the chance might not be as small as I wish it were).   

 

ETA: I know I'm probably in the minority but I don't see a problem with her refusing to participate.  There are steps, getting a zero, for a non-participating student.  I would think that after it being explained she still chose to not swim, then okay she gets a zero.  Why is she spoiled for not wanting to get her hair wet when she had a function (mentioned in another article I read earlier) to attend after school?  As an adult If I had a function to attend then I would have just skipped swim class that day, same for my HS'ed child.

[Guest]

Being forced to swim for gym class is stupid (I think any gym class in high school is stupid but I know people here disagree).  When I was that age, I fixed my hair and makeup every morning and I would not have wanted to mess it up either.  That teacher should get his butt sued for putting his hands on that young woman.  Wow!

[unsinkable]

I think if the girl chose not to participate, that is her choice and it should be handled like any other academic situation, like not doing her homework or not participating in a class discussion.

 

Maybe I'm missing something...but I don't see it as rude or being a brat.

[Ausmumof3]

So wrong... She may have had private reasons for not wanting to swim and used the hair and makeup thing as an excuse.

[Mrs Mungo]

I do think it's rude not to do as the teacher says. I do think it's disrespectful not to participate in class. Yes, we might skip something like swim, if we had something else to attend. But, we *homeschool*. I think when you choose to participate in a traditional school, then you should participate in class. I *absolutely* agree that it should NOT have been handled physically. Back when I was in high school (long, long ago), students who misbehaved in class and/or refused to participate in class were sent to talk to the principal, then put in "In School Suspension."

[unsinkable]

So much of school is ridiculous hoop-jumping. You shouldn't have to give up your bodily autonomy because <for whatever reason> you are under the jurisdiction of a government run school or government regulations for education.

 

At schools here, people deliberately FAIL gym because they don't want to swim for gym. Then they go to summer school because swimming isn't offered in the summer. The only people who benefit are the gym teachers who get paid to teach summer school.

 

And here, varsity athletes have to take gym. So kids can be physically active for HOURS every day during a sports season, after school but still have to take gym. Again...gym teachers benefit. More students, more teachers.

[happypamama]

The girl might be an overall spoiled brat, and she might be a nice kid who didn't want to swim that day or who genuinely didn't want her hair to be messed up for a function that day (although one would expect that she'd have known about the swimming and the evening event earlier, in which case, her parents should have sent a note, stating that she shouldn't participate, even if it meant a zero for the day) or that might be an excuse for something else or any one of a number of other things.

 

There was still NO reason for attempting to drag her into the pool! Maybe a hand on a shoulder or back, directing her toward the pool (but even that is questionable), but dragging her?!? And repeatedly trying to grab her?

 

This is one reason why I homeschool. Nobody drags my child around.

[heartosunshine]

So wrong... She may have had private reasons for not wanting to swim and used the hair and makeup thing as an excuse.

 

This was my first thought. Not all girls can use the feminine products that allow swimming at that time of the month nor do they really want to discuss it with a male teacher or in front of the class. Sheesh!

 

Makes me glad my dd wasn't dragged around the track because she didn't run one day due to foot problems. Her teacher took her word for it and I spoke to him after the fact. He provided an alternate activity so that she wouldn't be academically penalized.

[Guest submarines]

I'm baffled and disturbed by the opinion that it is rude or disrespectful to refuse to participate in a school activity ( as long as the refusal itself is polite.) Those who are taught that refusing an activity offered by authority figures is rude are the ones most susceptible to "just following orders" like the 65% in the Milgram experiments.

 

The girl didn't do anything wrong.

[creekland]

ETA: I know I'm probably in the minority but I don't see a problem with her refusing to participate.  There are steps, getting a zero, for a non-participating student.  I would think that after it being explained she still chose to not swim, then okay she gets a zero.  Why is she spoiled for not wanting to get her hair wet when she had a function (mentioned in another article I read earlier) to attend after school?  As an adult If I had a function to attend then I would have just skipped swim class that day, same for my HS'ed child.

 

If one wants to refuse to participate as a general rule, then they ought to switch to homeschooling or online schooling or something that fits their personality better.

 

In my classes, if a student refuses to participate, their option is to go to the office and explain to the admin exactly why they can't do math in a math class or similar.  They know (as do I) that if they choose this option, they'll get a minimum of one day of in school suspension.  Nonetheless, it's what I give as an option and occasionally a student chooses it (once or twice a year).

 

In gym classes, there are multiple reasons why students can't participate (injuries usually) and there are acceptable alternatives for them.  If this gal had had a legitimate excuse, she'd have been fine.  To be honest, even if she were a "good kid" and merely didn't want to go swimming that day she'd have likely been fine as the PE teachers I've interacted with are human, parents, and understand that things come up and make common sense allowances.

 

But, anyone who has taught for long comes to realize there are those "not-so-good" kids who choose to rebel (often) and enjoy the attention they get from it.  Often their parents are similar OR they don't realize what junior is up to.

 

These are the students who try teachers' patience and who could have set someone who has been teaching for years over the edge on a bad day.  They are the spoiled brats out there.  They have no good reason other than "I don't feel like it" or "I want attention."  

 

IMO, they need to skip public education and head for homeschooling or online options.  Public education may not be perfect and certainly isn't perfect for everyone, but when you choose to do something, you either go with it or change the options by other means.  (Chances are her parents could have gotten her exempt from swimming if they had gone through correct lines of contact.)

 

The last thing I need in any of my classes is to have it be ok if a student is allowed to decide - without decent cause - that they aren't going to participate.  I doubt gym classes are any different.

 

This was my first thought. Not all girls can use the feminine products that allow swimming at that time of the month nor do they really want to discuss it with a male teacher or in front of the class. Sheesh!

 

Makes me glad my dd wasn't dragged around the track because she didn't run one day due to foot problems. Her teacher took her word for it and I spoke to him after the fact. He provided an alternate activity so that she wouldn't be academically penalized.

 

It's similar here and she never would have needed to tell a male gym teacher considering he's NOT the one in the female locker room.  He was only in charge of the class after they changed and were ready.

 

And teachers DO take student's words on injuries that are short term, esp students that can be trusted (which is most of them).  Here a doctor's excuse is needed for more than 3 misses from the same thing.  There are alternate activities for daily things and long term things.

 

People are assuming that these things didn't exist at that school.  I seriously doubt it.

[creekland]

ps  If a student is ill or generally not feeling well, then they do get the option to not participate in my classes without issue from me.  Other teachers I know do the same thing.

 

We see these things OFTEN so get to know who is who.

[Seasider]

Being forced to swim for gym class is stupid (I think any gym class in high school is stupid but I know people here disagree). When I was that age, I fixed my hair and makeup every morning and I would not have wanted to mess it up either. That teacher should get his butt sued for putting his hands on that young woman. Wow!

Swimming is not an activity that was part of PE class in my school years. That was done at the Y over the summer or just occurred naturally with so much water available! I would have been mortified if I'd been required to don a swimsuit and swim with others daily when I was at school. I went to school in an era when people still dressed nice [eta "nice" is a relative term, I mean it was quite less casual back in my day] and there was a dress code. Hair is not something that cooperates for everyone, if I had somewhere to go I wouldn't want to mess mine up and have to restyle it at school (no time or tools for that!).

 

Certainly the most that should happen is that she get a zero for participation. And yes, sent to the principal for mouthing off. The teacher's behavior - totally inexcusable.

[merry gardens]

Ick. Poor kid.

 

Does that teacher know nothing about women's physiology? If a girl says she doesn't want to go swimming, the gym teacher should respect that.  Some female teens may not want to have to tell their male gym teacher about their feminine hygiene practices.  Tampon use shouldn't be required in a high school gym class. 

[Joanne]

I am anything but spoiled and vain. But my hair is an issue. An issue that is difficult to explain. And I would not expect my dd to have to defend her choice to any teacher on the issue.

 

Not participating in gym should be a place for age appropriate autonomy.

[Joker]

I honestly don't care what the girl did. She didn't deserve what happened to her and it's appalling he did what he did. My dds are in ps and there have been times they have refused PE and times I have written a note. They've never had hands put on them or any other punishment except a zero for the day. The days they didn't take a note were days I forgot and I am grateful right now that we have decent educators here that wouldn't force them into something.

 

I haven't seen anything that makes me think she's a brat but plenty that tells me he is a teacher on a power trip. He obviously needs a new job. My siblings are all teachers and my brother is at the high school level and a coach. He sees, and has directed at him, some rather horrible behavior but he has not once lost his cool or put his hands on someone like this guy did.

 

[creekland]

I don't think anyone is doubting that the teacher's reaction was just plain wrong.

[unsinkable]

Honestly...WTH is going on at that pool!?!

 

Who is the other student throwing water at? The girl getting dragged or the teacher?

 

And how many different students are trying to help the dragged student? Good for them!

 

And who is WATCHING the swimmers? There is only ONE ABUSIVE ADULT there?

 

Good gravy!

[bettyandbob]

Some schools require gym to graduate. Some schools require swimming to be one of the units in gym. I have a friend whose high school has swimming as a required unit. The high school issues really conservative tank bathing suits. I also attended a school that had swimming when I was in 7th grade. One girl tried the menstruation excuse several weeks in a row. She was required to go to a doctor because well if your period lasts that long something is wrong. She was lying at first and then her actual period happened and then she was just caught in her lies it was ridiculous.

 

For anyone who says a zero for the day, you don't get it. A zero for one day has no impact on a quarter or semester grade in the class. In my high school if you refused to participate for one day you lost a letter grade at the end of the grading period. IOW the highest grade you could earn was a B. If you refused to participate 4 times you failed for the grading period. That has teeth. You really had to think about not participating.

 

There are Physical Education teachers who take their subject seriously. My neighbor's son is a new PE teacher. He works very hard and plans classes to be effective just as any other teacher would. They generally have classes enrolled up to twice as much as an academic subject. If kids only got a zero for the day for not participating, on any given day a large percentage would not be participating. When students aren't participating they are disruptive.

 

So, my clear opinion is if your dc is enrolled in a school that requires gym and requires swimming then the child should be participating and not participating should have serious consequences -- letter grade drop or automatic fail. Excuse out of participation should be by medical evaluation.

 

That said, the teacher should not have touched the girl. At all.

 

 

[In The Great White North]

The teacher was definitely wrong.

 

I don't know about CA, but swimming was a graduation requirement in MI back in the day.  You didn't have the option.

[Guest]

Every time I try to think up a response to this, I fail to find the right words. The gym teacher was wrong, but I absolutely detest refusal to participate, especially in a teaching role.

 

I think sending her to detention is a way better solution, especially if he was frustrated and didn't want to deal with keeping track of her on the side. But hair being a reason for non participation completely breaks my brain. I'd ground my kid for a month over that, but we also pay good money for swim lessons.

 

I don't even know. I'm annoyed at both members in this story! :lol:

At what point do kids get to say "This is my person, I decide what I will and won't do with my body"?? Refusal in a class and refusal in gym are very different.

 

ETA--Down with high school gym!!!

[Joker]

I would like to know how not participating in disruptive? My dds have not participated in PE and they sit in a corner of the bleachers and do homework, read, take PE notes, or work on a PE project. This is all quiet and my dds usually don't even notice who is and is not participating because it's not on their radar. There is no disruption.

[bettyandbob]

Not participating in gym should be a place for age appropriate autonomy.

 

I going to disagree Joanne. PE is a required course where I live. If kids could simply refuse to participate the 90 minute gym block would be an unruly mess.

 

Is it age appropriate to decide not to participate in algebra II and spend the period on your phone using social media.

 

Refusing to participate in any class is just plain disrespect to the teacher and other students, since refusal is often disruptive. There might be exceptions in any class for medical needs, learning disabilities, religious issues, etc, but these are things arranged and documented by parents or guardians before confrontation comes up.

 

If you want to refuse to participate in required subjects then maybe you should homeschool and enroll in a school that has different requirements.

 

As I said before, the teacher in this case was just wrong.

[Joker]

I going to disagree Joanne. PE is a required course where I live. If kids could simply refuse to participate the 90 minute gym block would be an unruly mess.

 

Is it age appropriate to decide not to participate in algebra II and spend the period on your phone using social media.

 

Refusing to participate in any class is just plain disrespect to the teacher and other students, since refusal is often disruptive. There might be exceptions in any class for medical needs, learning disabilities, religious issues, etc, but these are things arranged and documented by parents or guardians before confrontation comes up.

 

If you want to refuse to participate in required subjects then maybe you should homeschool and enroll in a school that has different requirements.

 

As I said before, the teacher in this case was just wrong.

 

PE is a required course here as well and it is not an unruly mess just because students can refuse to participate. This makes me wonder what people are like where you live. Here, they sit and do other work instead of PE and get a zero if no note from parents or doctor.

 

[momacacia]

I strongly suspect the school district is going to pay for that girl's college education. ;)

[unsinkable]

I going to disagree Joanne. PE is a required course where I live. If kids could simply refuse to participate the 90 minute gym block would be an unruly mess.

 

Is it age appropriate to decide not to participate in algebra II and spend the period on your phone using social media.

 

Refusing to participate in any class is just plain disrespect to the teacher and other students, since refusal is often disruptive. There might be exceptions in any class for medical needs, learning disabilities, religious issues, etc, but these are things arranged and documented by parents or guardians before confrontation comes up.

 

If you want to refuse to participate in required subjects then maybe you should homeschool and enroll in a school that has different requirements.

 

As I said before, the teacher in this case was just wrong.

I have a child who refused to participate in a Math class, his favorite subject, starting about the end of the 3rd quarter. I supported him. He explained to me that the teacher was really arrogant and did things like sighing if people in this honors class didnt understand something. My son decided he'd answer/respond if specifically addressed but otherwise just take notes and not volunteer.

 

This is my get-along-with-anyone son so when he gave this guy a chance for 30 weeks, then decided he was "done" I respected his decision.

[ktgrok]

There were times I didn't participate in gym. I'd forgotten gym clothes, or whatever. You got a zero for the day, if you missed more than 3 days it dropped your grade, something. I don't remember. But it wasn't a huge deal. You just had to sit on the sidelines quietly. 

[creekland]

PE is a required course here as well and it is not an unruly mess just because students can refuse to participate. This makes me wonder what people are like where you live. Here, they sit and do other work instead of PE and get a zero if no note from parents or doctor.

 

 

If there is a legitimate reason not to participate, then there is no problem.  Here kids not participating in PE go to the library and do an alternative assignment.  They do not get a zero.

 

They will get points docked if they forget gym clothes, but there are (clean) ones they can borrow.

 

Otherwise, refusing to participate in required public education IS an issue.  Many kids don't care for exercise or gym in general.  Many kids don't care for math or science or English as well.  As a society, we've decided what we feel is required for public education AND provided ways around that for people who don't agree.  But if one chooses their local public schools, it comes WITH those requirements.  The requirements are not hidden.

 

Every single teacher I know from the strictest to the most lenient, from good at their job to not-so-good, allows kids who are known "good" kids to have an off day.  We all have them.  We can also detect when our troublemakers are having an off day legitimately and often allow for that.

 

I would not care to work at a school where the students get to decide what they will or won't do - in any class.  There are exceptions for needed exceptions as those are COMMON.

 

For those who disagree with public b&m requirements, either get voting and change the requirements or choose something different for your family's education.

 

It's the same way when one chooses to work somewhere - either follow the rules, work within the system to change the rules, or work somewhere else.

[creekland]

I strongly suspect the school district is going to pay for that girl's college education. ;)

 

I strongly suspect that girl won't be able to handle college and if she tries it, she will fail out if she doesn't change her ways.  Due to that teacher going off the deep end, she may end up with enough taxpayer dollars to not need college though.

 

I have a child who refused to participate in a Math class, his favorite subject, starting about the end of the 3rd quarter. I supported him. He explained to me that the teacher was really arrogant and did things like sighing if people in this honors class didnt understand something. My son decided he'd answer/respond if specifically addressed but otherwise just take notes and not volunteer.

 

This is my get-along-with-anyone son so when he gave this guy a chance for 30 weeks, then decided he was "done" I respected his decision.

 

We have a difference in vocab meanings here.  Your son taking notes and responding when spoken to IS participating in class just fine.

 

It's those who won't take notes (or pay attention) and won't do classwork who refuse to participate.

[unsinkable]

Hey?! How come Andrew gets to get up? If he gets up, we'll all get up. It'll be anarchy!

 

 

Screws fall out all the time. The world's an imperfect place.

[TwoEdgedSword]

This is one reason why I homeschool. Nobody drags my child around.

Love it.

[mommybee]

Page not found. Some letters got added to the end of the URL. Try this one http://abc7.com/news/teacher-charged-for-forcing-student-into-pool/405494/

 

They were both wrong. He went way overboard and never should have dragged her. She was disrespectful and didn't want to get in the pool for class because she'd ruin her hair and had plans later. Students really need to be respectful and actually do what they are supposed to in class. Teachers should never resort to physical force. Her parents are right. She should have been punished, but not like that.

Thanks.......I was posting from my phone at my lunch break and had to get back to work.

[creekland]

Hey?! How come Andrew gets to get up? If he gets up, we'll all get up. It'll be anarchy!

 

 

Have you ever taught in a public school?  Because you're describing it pretty accurately.  If Andrew gets up then Jimmy gets up and Joey has to join in and they all want to go pick on Susie and/or hide Kevin's pencil...

 

Go ahead and try to teach in that.  Make sure even Andrew and Jimmy and Joey and Susie and Kevin learn the material enough to pass the test as well as the others who are trying to ignore them and learn but are naturally distracted.

[unsinkable]

Have you ever taught in a public school? Because you're describing it pretty accurately. If Andrew gets up then Jimmy gets up and Joey has to join in and they all want to go pick on Susie and/or hide Kevin's pencil...

 

Go ahead and try to teach in that. Make sure even Andrew and Jimmy and Joey and Susie and Kevin learn the material enough to pass the test as well as the others who are trying to ignore them and learn but are naturally distracted.

Yes, I have. And in private school, too.

 

Oh, and those are quotes from the Breakfast Club. I thought they'd be well known enough for people to get the reference.

[countrygal]

That was appalling.

 

But if she didn't want to swim, why did she even put a swim suit on? Just my thought.

[mommybee]

I don't know I just don't see any reason to put his hands on her like that no matter what she is or isn't doing. It just seems wrong to me.

[katilac]

I do think it's rude not to do as the teacher says. I do think it's disrespectful not to participate in class. Yes, we might skip something like swim, if we had something else to attend. But, we *homeschool*. I think when you choose to participate in a traditional school, then you should participate in class. I *absolutely* agree that it should NOT have been handled physically. Back when I was in high school (long, long ago), students who misbehaved in class and/or refused to participate in class were sent to talk to the principal, then put in "In School Suspension."

 

If a teenager being rude or disrespectful makes one go ape sh*t crazy, perhaps one should not teach high school.  

 

Are you sure you aren't suffering from a wee bit of 'back in my day' syndrome? I graduated over 30 years ago. If they had sent every single student who misbehaved or refused to participate to the principal every single time . . . well, let's just say it would have had to have been a very big office. 

 

My parents were in high school over 60 years ago. They assure me that kids misbehaved in school even back in those ancient times, and not every offense was met with a trip to the principal. 

[creekland]

I don't know I just don't see any reason to put his hands on her like that no matter what she is or isn't doing. It just seems wrong to me.

 

I'm pretty sure we all agree on that point.

[SproutMamaK]

Not only do I Find his behaviour appalling, but I completely understand her excuse. She has school all day and an event to go that night, so she gets her hair done in the morning or at lunch hour because she won't have time later. What's her other option? Show up late to a formal event? Go without getting her hair done? Skip the last period of school? If it were my daughter I'd have told her to just skip gym; a formal event is more important than one swimming lesson with 30 other students.

[bettyandbob]

Not only do I Find his behaviour appalling, but I completely understand her excuse. She has school all day and an event to go that night, so she gets her hair done in the morning or at lunch hour because she won't have time later. What's her other option? Show up late to a formal event? Go without getting her hair done? Skip the last period of school? If it were my daughter I'd have told her to just skip gym; a formal event is more important than one swimming lesson with 30 other students.

 

You plan around your requirements that day. Formal events do not require elaborate hair. There are lots of styles that are simple to pull off for a formal event. Women (and teen girls) do not require hours of primping to get dressed, put on make up and do hair. Some women enjoy extra primping, but it is not necessary. My dd knows someone who got ready for prom in 30 minutes (from shower through hair and makeup) because she had another thing she was doing that evening before going to the dance. It can be and is done. And honestly, there's no reason not to learn how to do it.

 

When you are in school you do your school things. If you have after school activities, you plan whatever you have to do to be ready for them with the after school time you have.

 

The hair excuse should be considered unreasonable.

 

ETA yes teacher's behavior was appalling.

[Guest]

Is there some part of the story I'm missing?  Everyone keeps talking about a disrespectful girl; the video I saw just showed a girl being drug and yelling for help.

 

Does autonomy start the day you graduate??  Your first day of college?  When do young adults earn the right to decide what they will or won't do??  Yes, there are consequences (lowered grade, grounding, etc.) but my young adult children will have the right to refuse physical activities they are not comfortable with, no matter why.   

[katilac]

Formal events do not require elaborate hair. There are lots of styles that are simple to pull off for a formal event.  

 

You obviously do not have difficult hair, lol. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

When I was in school there were a certain # of days per month allowed to miss swim class, which was a mandatory class for freshmen. You had to go down to the gym and pedal on an exercise bike for the hour, but at least you had that option. It wasn't an unlimited amount of time; you'd still get the required hours. But it saved you stupid conversations about your personal problems. You just claimed your day and headed for the gym.

 

Edited to add: But even if the school has no sane policy the teacher could refrain from grabbing and dragging a minor female practically by the hair while her top falls off. YE GODS.

[bettyandbob]

Is there some part of the story I'm missing?  Everyone keeps talking about a disrespectful girl; the video I saw just showed a girl being drug and yelling for help.

 

Does autonomy start the day you graduate??  Your first day of college?  When do young adults earn the right to decide what they will or won't do??  Yes, there are consequences (lowered grade, grounding, etc.) but my young adult children will have the right to refuse physical activities they are not comfortable with, no matter why.   

 

The teacher was wrong and the girl was disrespectful. Some people think a student should not have to participate in class. If you enroll in a school where this class is a requirement and you enroll in this class then you should expect to participate. Every. Single. Day.

 

The teacher clearly lacked the skills to deal with the disrespect appropriately.