Teenage girl dragged into the pool by a teacher

[Word Nerd]

So the girl did swim before the events in the video but the teacher still wanted her to get in to get her hair wet? Where did you read that? If that's true, that's even worse than I thought initially.

http://ktla.com/2014/11/22/video-shows-stockton-gym-teacher-dragging-13-year-old-girl-to-pool-as-she-pleads-for-him-to-stop/

 

“I swam laps like the teacher asked but I did not want my hair wet,†the unidentified student told the Sacramento-area television station, adding that she didn’t swim fully under the water because she didn’t want to get her hair wet. "

[Laura Corin]

We can safely conclude that the teacher was wrong by watching the video and reading the available reports. Do we really know what is going on with the student, though?

 

 

You're absolutely right that we don't know the whole story.  That's the case with all the news items we discuss here: we can only go by the information that is reported.

 

I'm sorry you had such a tough time at school.

 

L

[Kathryn]

He was wrong and he should face charges. No matter what she had done, there is absolutely no excuse for his behavior.

 

I've been reading this thread all along. I know some are speaking generally about high school and doing what is asked, but some stepped way over the line of victim-blaming, calling her names and speculating on how horrible of a person she is and how awful her life will be because she didn't want to get her hair wet one day.

[catz]

He was wrong and he should face charges. No matter what she had done, there is absolutely no excuse for his behavior.

 

I've been reading this thread all along. I know some are speaking generally about high school and doing what is asked, but some stepped way over the line of victim-blaming, calling her names and speculating on how horrible of a person she is and how awful her life will be because she didn't want to get her hair wet one day.

 

:iagree: I hope this teacher spends a good long time in jail and never works with kids again.

 

I absolutely don't think we can speak to the motivations or character of the student either.  Everyone has bad days.  Teens are often drama filled and turn out to be perfectly fine adults (guilty as charged).   That said, if my kid would not participate in a class, I do not think something like unemotionally dropping the grade, a trip to the principle's office, or detention would not be out of line.  If a child had a good reason not to fully participate in swimming in phy-ed, it should be cleared ahead of time with parental/doctor involvement with the teacher/office.  We walked around high school with wet gym hair all the time in high school and we did swim in gym class.  It was not a big deal IMO.  I actually think it served me pretty well to have pretty up front, no nonsense teachers and parents during this time period. 

 

This in NO WAY is saying that this child deserved what she got!  This video is absolutely horrible.  I have a 14 year old boy and home who frustrates me daily.  Being a ball of hormones and emotions can cause some unclear thinking.  There's a huge world of difference between physical assault and unemotionally demonstrating that choices and actions will result in consequences that are clearly spelled out ahead of time. 

[*Lulu*]

What?! Of course he can be.

 

Well.........yes and no.

 

While I personally think he shod be fired, it really depends on his contract, the local and state teachers' union, and how his actions are interprets by the authorities.

 

Sometimes teachers who should be terminated aren't because of the legal ramifications for the school district. At the very least I hope the district moves him into a position where he has zero contact with students.

[bettyandbob]

Well.........yes and no.

 

While I personally think he shod be fired, it really depends on his contract, the local and state teachers' union, and how his actions are interprets by the authorities.

 

Sometimes teachers who should be terminated aren't because of the legal ramifications for the school district. At the very least I hope the district moves him into a position where he has zero contact with students.

If he can't be fired, I hope it's not because of some stupid union thing. I hope there's something else serious in this story we don't have. I can't fathom what it would be. Because the video is insane.

[Word Nerd]

What?! Of course he can be.

Is it possible? Yes, which is where the "probably" comes in. Is that likely? Nope, no matter how many interrobangs you add to your sentence.

[LibraryLover]

That is assault. He should never teach again. I'd file charges,  and work towards arrest & conviction.   

[snowbeltmom]

I seriously doubt he will be retained after assaulting a student. Teachers unions do not protect abusers. Really.

But he was retained after assaulting the student.  His initial "punishment" was a transfer to another school within the district, where a new group of unsuspecting students could be subjected to his "teaching" methods.

 

According to the news article that was linked up-thread, it wasn't until the assault was made public months later that the district administrators placed him on paid leave.  I would call that "protecting the abuser."

 

 

[*Lulu*]

I seriously doubt he will be retained after assaulting a student. Teachers unions do not protect abusers. Really.

No. But if the only authority involved in the situation is the school board and not local law enforment it may not being framed as an assault in the way he is being disaplined by the school board.

[Truscifi]

It's an interesting discussion. I think the teacher being in a position of authority affects perception somehow? Obviously he overreacted --> he must have been REacting to something SHE did. Instead of her being the victim of his uncontrolled rage. Even the school system has taken that approach!

 

This. This is exactly what I have been thinking as I read. You said it better than I would have.

[Word Nerd]

It happened in August. He has already been retained for several months.

[Laura Corin]

In AU there are very few general study requirements...

 

I did a three year undergraduate degree in creative arts, and my studies were made up of only creative arts and literature subjects.

 

This is the norm for most degrees in AU except specifically named Bachelor of Liberal Arts.

 

Even within a BA, you get to choose your subject areas. A BA in history student isn't going to have to do math.

 

It works fine.

 

This is the same in England.  Calvin has chosen to study Classics and English.  He will study nothing else for the next three years (the full length of a degree in England).  As Sadie says, it works fine.

 

ETA: there are also more general degrees in England and Wales, and Scotland has a four year degree with a more general first year - I believe that the US system was based on this, but I might be wrong.  So UK students have a choice as to which style they take.

 

L

[unsinkable]

In AU there are very few general study requirements...

 

I did a three year undergraduate degree in creative arts, and my studies were made up of only creative arts and literature subjects.

 

This is the norm for most degrees in AU except specifically named Bachelor of Liberal Arts.

 

Even within a BA, you get to choose your subject areas. A BA in history student isn't going to have to do math.

 

It works fine.

I liked this bc it is nice to know what they do in Australia. I think it'd work well for many students.

 

Here, at liberal arts colleges, students need to take at least one class in different categories like Natural Science, Social Science, Mathematics, Fine Arts, etc.

 

There are usually choices for a non-major in those categories. So a biology for non-majors is different than the biology a science major would take.

[happi duck]

What?! Of course he can be.

I taught with a "teacher" who hurt a kid and was only reassigned and encouraged to retire. That was it. (Eta: she had tenure)

 

Schools of all levels often try hard to handle things internally.

[LucyStoner]

I seriously doubt he will be retained after assaulting a student. Teachers unions do not protect abusers. Really.

My local teacher union has most certainly protected abusers, including a high school teacher who was sexually harassing several students.

 

I am not anti-union but there are definitely plenty of examples of illogical protectionism in some unions.

[ErinE]

 

Am I truly the only one who feels this way? Did ALL the rest of you have swimming as required as PE?

My large urban school district required everyone to learn to swim in fifth grade. Once a week for six weeks, all the kids were put on a bus after lunch and driven to the natatorium. The six week period rotated among the elementary schools. I absolutely think it was a good policy, but it also came before hair, makeup and clothes were a big concern among the kids.

 

In high school, most of the non-varsity PE classes barely required breaking a sweat (swimming wasn't an option outside the team). There wasn't time to change, participate, then shower and change for the rest of school. All varsity sports were pre- or post-school with time designated in school for class or weight training.

[Laurie4b]

It's hard for me to understand why this does not "compute" as being in the same category in people's minds as domestic abuse would be. I see no difference except that the girl and teacher are not related . He lost control and used his superior physical power in a way that would have scraped up the girl and possibly exposed her breasts or lower lady parts.

 

So suppose that  instead of the incident described, we read that this guy assaulted his wife because he came home and the house wasn't clean and dinner was burned. Would we be saying, "Well, he shouldn't have done that. Don't you think his wife on the other hand, should be using Flylady or some other system and staying in the kitchen to make sure that nothing burned?" "Well I never burn dinner. Burning dinner can be avoided by paying close attention. The wife was probably off on the internet instead of paying attention." "Who wants to come home to an unkempt house? She was probably on the internet typing on message boards intead of keeping the house up, but yeah, he shouldn't have dragged her like that." "My mother always made sure the house was picked up before my father came home. I think it's only courteous and I keep the same standards." 

 

Would we talk this way if he had dragged his wife across a room in front of his kids in her swimsuit, scraping her up, and possibly exposing her breasts to the rest of the family?

 

Why is it acceptable to discuss the 14 year old victim? Discussing her hair, her parents, her participation in cheerleading, etc. is irrelevant to what the teacher did. Absolutely and totally irrelevant. She's a crime victim for heaven's sake. Why add to it? I am really shocked that so many people continue to discuss the victim's choices and behavior. So now, she not only is the victim of a crime, but the internet (or at least the WTM corner of it) is alight discussing her behavior, and giving a "well of course he was wrong" nod in the teacher's direction.

 

 

 

 

[unsinkable]

It's hard for me to understand why this does not "compute" as being in the same category in people's minds as domestic abuse would be. I see no difference except that the girl and teacher are not related . He lost control and used his superior physical power in a way that would have scraped up the girl and possibly exposed her breasts or lower lady parts.

 

So suppose that instead of the incident described, we read that this guy assaulted his wife because he came home and the house wasn't clean and dinner was burned. Would we be saying, "Well, he shouldn't have done that. Don't you think his wife on the other hand, should be using Flylady or some other system and staying in the kitchen to make sure that nothing burned?" "Well I never burn dinner. Burning dinner can be avoided by paying close attention. The wife was probably off on the internet instead of paying attention." "Who wants to come home to an unkempt house? She was probably on the internet typing on message boards intead of keeping the house up, but yeah, he shouldn't have dragged her like that." "My mother always made sure the house was picked up before my father came home. I think it's only courteous and I keep the same standards."

 

Would we talk this way if he had dragged his wife across a room in front of his kids in her swimsuit, scraping her up, and possibly exposing her breasts to the rest of the family?

 

Why is it acceptable to discuss the 14 year old victim? Discussing her hair, her parents, her participation in cheerleading, etc. is irrelevant to what the teacher did. Absolutely and totally irrelevant. She's a crime victim for heaven's sake. Why add to it? I am really shocked that so many people continue to discuss the victim's choices and behavior. So now, she not only is the victim of a crime, but the internet (or at least the WTM corner of it) is alight discussing her behavior, and giving a "well of course he was wrong" nod in the teacher's direction.

I'm not sure why it's acceptable. Maybe that's why I keep reading, because I keep thinking that I'll finally get it.

 

And I don't understand...to extend your analogy...would it be OK to say:

 

*I'm not talking about THIS wife who got dragged (assaulted) around because dinner was burned and the house wasn't clean. I'm talking about wives in general, how they burn dinner and keep a messy house.*

[catz]

I'm not sure why it's acceptable. Maybe that's why I keep reading, because I keep thinking that I'll finally get it.

 

And I don't understand...to extend your analogy...would it be OK to say:

 

*I'm not talking about THIS wife who got dragged (assaulted) around because dinner was burned and the house wasn't clean. I'm talking about wives in general, how they burn dinner and keep a messy house.*

 

Hmmm ... well I don't think that's the same.   Maybe not everyone agrees with me, but I consider a marriage a partnership.  If I want to keep a messy house, this is my house too and it's my prerogative.  If my DH doesn't like that, he can talk to me and help work on it in a teamwork kind of way and hopefully we'd come to a compromise.

 

If my husband went to work, had a customer meeting scheduled and planned, and said to his superior "Hmm ... I'm not really up to talking to customers today.  Could you deal with that?" or a college student had a deadline they had to meet for a paper and just didn't meet it.  There are consequences to your actions.   I don't think it's odd that there should be some logical, well spelled out consequence to not participating in class.   Even for PE.  I get that some people think a high school PE requirement is stupid, but it's certainly a graduation requirement in my state.  Maybe we're crazy homeschoolers, but my kids have PE requirements that we've set and they're harder than state requrements.  I know my own kids do better with regular physical activity.  And I am talking generally.  Obviously, we don't know the full story with this girl.  I was a 14 year old girl once, I have a 14 year old boy, know lots of kids in this age range now, and I get it.  I would expect kids in this age range to push back sometimes.  I don't teach my kids to blindly comply with authority by any stretch.  I listen to them and support them.  But if they wanted to go to high school, I would expect them to understand they are expected to perform well at school and enrolling would be buying into that level of hoop jumping. And I would expect a logical consequence like a zero for the day or a detention for lack of respect if they chose not to participate.  I "force" my 14 year old to do stuff all the time.  He'd play video games all day in his boxer shorts if I didn't.

 

And no I don't think consequences should involve raised voices, let alone physical violence.  I shudder to think of what else this teacher has done. 

[Guest]

Unless the teacher is doing so to defend themselves, NO teacher has a right to put their hands on a student.  Period.  Let the kid get a zero and be done with it.

[Laurie4b]

If there was a video of a teenaged girl being sexually assaulted by a male teacher, I doubt if we'd be discussing what she was wearing, or what teenaged girls in general should wear, or whether or not she had turned in her assignment in his class.

 

The girl in the video was the victim of another kind of abuse--violence (not discipline) and we are discussing whether or not teenagers should be expected to follow directions in class.

 

Why?

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

If there was a video of a teenaged girl being sexually assaulted by a male teacher, I doubt if we'd be discussing what she was wearing, or what teenaged girls in general should wear, or whether or not she had turned in her assignment in his class.

 

The girl in the video was the victim of another kind of abuse--violence (not discipline) and we are discussing whether or not teenagers should be expected to follow directions in class.

 

Why?

Why? Because some here said they don't think students should have to follow instructions in class. The rabbit trail ensued from there.

[StephanieZ]

Aw, I think the whole thing stinks. The teacher looked like he was being reasonably gentle. It's not beyond the kind of physical contact lots of adults and kids have goofing off around a pool or elsewhere. I've been tossed into a pool hundreds of times in my life, not always willingly, lol. 

 

I don't think he was being abusive, and I don't think it is appropriate to use the "no means no" kind of language the lawyer is using. . .  he is making it sound sexual or harassing, and it clearly wasn't. If that were MY kid, I'd likely have given her loads of shit for not participating, and I would have given the teacher and principal some grief and shown them the video . . . but, I wouldn't have sued or made a formal complaint unless I really felt there was much more to the situation than the video shows. 

 

I think it boils down to "horse play" that shouldn't be occurring in a teaching situation at a pool in any event. Bad judgement for sure. 

 

I also think the girl shouldn't have been wearing a bikini top in a school swim class, and I am not against bikinis in general. But, for a swim CLASS, all the kids should be wearing suits that will stay on and up through much more than a mild scuffle at pool side.

 

That said, the teacher blew it, and he got caught. He should have sent her to the principal's office, given her detention, suspended her, etc, for insubordination (when she refused to participate). Teachers can't touch kids that way, just as no adult should touch a non-family-member child in any disciplinary fashion unless it is to prevent immediate physical harm to someone (or the child herself). I wouldn't touch any kid over 5 in any questionable way that wasn't mine by blood unless there was an immediate danger. Hugs, pats on the arm or shoulder, etc . . . yes . . . but if they won't listen to my WORDS, then I'll call their Mom, take them home, or call 911. . . 

[ktgrok]

Horse play implies it is in fun. that video isn't funny.

 

And for those saying they aren't discussing the teacher because everyone agrees he was wrong, why are we discussing the student? Everyone seems to agree that she should have faced an academic consequence (a zero, or sent to principal). 

 

 

[catz]

Why? Because some here said they don't think students should have to follow instructions in class. The rabbit trail ensued from there.

 

It's not like rabbit trails never happen on threads here!  :lol:   The first post was actually very open ended. 

 

And I completely disagree that this guy was gentle.  No teacher should EVER touch a student.  True we don't know what happened before this, but I can't see ANY reason for a teacher to behave in this manner with a student.

[Truscifi]

Aw, I think the whole thing stinks. The teacher looked like he was being reasonably gentle. It's not beyond the kind of physical contact lots of adults and kids have goofing off around a pool or elsewhere. I've been tossed into a pool hundreds of times in my life, not always willingly, lol. 

 

I don't think he was being abusive, and I don't think it is appropriate to use the "no means no" kind of language the lawyer is using. . .  he is making it sound sexual or harassing, and it clearly wasn't. If that were MY kid, I'd likely have given her loads of shit for not participating, and I would have given the teacher and principal some grief and shown them the video . . . but, I wouldn't have sued or made a formal complaint unless I really felt there was much more to the situation than the video shows. 

 

I think it boils down to "horse play" that shouldn't be occurring in a teaching situation at a pool in any event. Bad judgement for sure. 

 

I also think the girl shouldn't have been wearing a bikini top in a school swim class, and I am not against bikinis in general. But, for a swim CLASS, all the kids should be wearing suits that will stay on and up through much more than a mild scuffle at pool side.

 

That said, the teacher blew it, and he got caught. He should have sent her to the principal's office, given her detention, suspended her, etc, for insubordination (when she refused to participate). Teachers can't touch kids that way, just as no adult should touch a non-family-member child in any disciplinary fashion unless it is to prevent immediate physical harm to someone (or the child herself). I wouldn't touch any kid over 5 in any questionable way that wasn't mine by blood unless there was an immediate danger. Hugs, pats on the arm or shoulder, etc . . . yes . . . but if they won't listen to my WORDS, then I'll call their Mom, take them home, or call 911. . . 

 

 

:confused1:  Seriously?

[bettyandbob]

Aw, I think the whole thing stinks. The teacher looked like he was being reasonably gentle. It's not beyond the kind of physical contact lots of adults and kids have goofing off around a pool or elsewhere. I've been tossed into a pool hundreds of times in my life, not always willingly, lol. 

 

Gentle?

There was nothing gentle about that video. And I spend a lot of time at pools (I teach swimming, ds does special olympics training at two rec centers and dd does summer rec swim outdoors, plus I go to the pool for fun). I have to say that kind of physical contact would not be ignored or considered goofing off in any setting I've been in . Have I been tossed in willingly or unwillingly, yes? Being tossed in when goofing off may be inappropriate, but it is also associated with joyous activities like a party or winning meet. This was not a goofing off situation and it wasn't gentle.

 

[Another Lynn]

Horse play implies it is in fun. that video isn't funny.

 

And for those saying they aren't discussing the teacher because everyone agrees he was wrong, why are we discussing the student? Everyone seems to agree that she should have faced an academic consequence (a zero, or sent to principal). 

 

Actually, I'm not even convinced she should face an academic consequence.  She swam laps with her head out of the water.  She was proactively planning in order to be ready for an important competition later in the day while still participating and complying to a reasonable degree.  I don't see a problem or a need for an academic consequence. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Anytime a girl is screaming NO and MY TOP IS FALLING OFF and others are grabbing her legs as if some kind of human tug of rope attempt will stop the crazy man from dragging and throwing her into the pool, 99.5% of the witnesses will come up with some adjective other than "gentle" to describe it.

[hornblower]

what? Now we're critiquing what she was wearing? :huh:



[as an aside, I know a female who has an absurdly long torso for her height/build & she pretty much has to wear two piece suits because she can't find any one piece ones that fit. Even the ones labelled tall have been too short. For lap swimming she wears a suit which has a top that's cut pretty much like a sport or yoga bra. They're called a sport 2 piece.]
 

[Hannahs4]

It's hard for me to understand why this does not "compute" as being in the same category in people's minds as domestic abuse would be. I see no difference except that the girl and teacher are not related . He lost control and used his superior physical power in a way that would have scraped up the girl and possibly exposed her breasts or lower lady parts.

 

So suppose that instead of the incident described, we read that this guy assaulted his wife because he came home and the house wasn't clean and dinner was burned. Would we be saying, "Well, he shouldn't have done that. Don't you think his wife on the other hand, should be using Flylady or some other system and staying in the kitchen to make sure that nothing burned?" "Well I never burn dinner. Burning dinner can be avoided by paying close attention. The wife was probably off on the internet instead of paying attention." "Who wants to come home to an unkempt house? She was probably on the internet typing on message boards intead of keeping the house up, but yeah, he shouldn't have dragged her like that." "My mother always made sure the house was picked up before my father came home. I think it's only courteous and I keep the same standards."

 

Would we talk this way if he had dragged his wife across a room in front of his kids in her swimsuit, scraping her up, and possibly exposing her breasts to the rest of the family?

 

Why is it acceptable to discuss the 14 year old victim? Discussing her hair, her parents, her participation in cheerleading, etc. is irrelevant to what the teacher did. Absolutely and totally irrelevant. She's a crime victim for heaven's sake. Why add to it? I am really shocked that so many people continue to discuss the victim's choices and behavior. So now, she not only is the victim of a crime, but the internet (or at least the WTM corner of it) is alight discussing her behavior, and giving a "well of course he was wrong" nod in the teacher's direction.

Exactly what I was trying to say!

Outrage at crimes committed should always be our response. To further push the point, let's add rape to the discussion. Do we really believe it is always a horrific crime or do we say, well she is a prostitute, or alcohol was involved,or whatever. Even if theses things aren't said out loud, if they are thought on some level, we as a society are minimizing the crime.

[StephanieZ]

:confused1:  Seriously?

 

I surrender. :)

 

I watched the video once. I didn't read or watch any other articles or clips.

 

I grew up being "horseplay'ed" to death by a big brother. I don't personally LIKE it, and I don't allow physical altercations in my household, but I guess I am fairly immune to being shocked by that sort of thing. I don't find it scary or evil, just obnoxious and unkind. And not fun!

 

To me, the teacher looked like he was moving slowly and methodically, not the sudden grabbing and yanking that I associate with violence. It seemed more like a depressed teacher at his wit's end making a series of bad decisions than a violent predator. 

 

It seems to me like the girl could have sat or stood up pretty readily, but I just saw the 30 second clip on the first article. Maybe there was more to it. I couldn't tell if the other students were trying to help the teacher or help her. 

 

Seems like a bad situation to me, and the teacher definitely blew it. I just have a hard time thinking he was intentionally being abusive or violent, but rather clueless and stupid. I totally admit I could be wrong, though. 

[SKL]

I couldn't tell how violent it was (and I have no intention of watching it again), but the man had no business forcing her body in any way whatsoever (except if needed to save her from severe harm).

 

The thought crossed my mind that maybe she was engaging in horseplay with him initially (I did not have the sound on).  But even if that were the case, he should not have engaged.  No way no how.

 

The man's actions were those of a teacher who has lost his grip on reality.  No sane American teacher could think that was OK to do that to a student.

[catz]

Horse play implies it is in fun. that video isn't funny.

 

And for those saying they aren't discussing the teacher because everyone agrees he was wrong, why are we discussing the student? Everyone seems to agree that she should have faced an academic consequence (a zero, or sent to principal). 

 

I got the feeling some people felt a student should just be able to decline to participate for any reason without any consequence, so it seems like a valid rabbit trail.  I disagree with that and think there should be an academic consequence, and a further consequence if behavoir was disruptive or disrespectful.  I also disagree with value judgement on kids in the throes of puberty.  Teen years are hard. 

 

On the head in the water vs. not in?  Who knows.  Maybe the requirement was breast stroke, butterfly, or crawl.  We really only know part of the story.  Maybe this teacher is a bigger jerk, and didn't lay out what the requirement was ahead of time.  

 

Doesn't make putting hands on the student ok no matter what. 

[StephanieZ]

Gentle?

There was nothing gentle about that video. And I spend a lot of time at pools (I teach swimming, ds does special olympics training at two rec centers and dd does summer rec swim outdoors, plus I go to the pool for fun). I have to say that kind of physical contact would not be ignored or considered goofing off in any setting I've been in . Have I been tossed in willingly or unwillingly, yes? Being tossed in when goofing off may be inappropriate, but it is also associated with joyous activities like a party or winning meet. This was not a goofing off situation and it wasn't gentle.

 

 

OK, you are right. A pool deck is rough, and it would have hurt to be dragged on it. You are right. It was not gentle. Just slow and oddly methodical rather than the sudden movements I expect when looking at violence. You are right. I was wrong. Not gentle. Just slow and stupid.

 

Why didn't she sit up or stand up? Was she unable to? Was she in shock and not responding? If that is the case, then I am even more wrong, and the teacher was even more at fault. If that was the case, then it does indeed harken to sexual violence, when women and girls often freeze and are unable to respond as they might otherwise. 

 

I was wrong. Not gentle. Bad. 

[Joker]

I surrender. :)

 

I watched the video once. I didn't read or watch any other articles or clips.

 

I grew up being "horseplay'ed" to death by a big brother. I don't personally LIKE it, and I don't allow physical altercations in my household, but I guess I am fairly immune to being shocked by that sort of thing. I don't find it scary or evil, just obnoxious and unkind. And not fun!

 

To me, the teacher looked like he was moving slowly and methodically, not the sudden grabbing and yanking that I associate with violence. It seemed more like a depressed teacher at his wit's end making a series of bad decisions than a violent predator. 

 

It seems to me like the girl could have sat or stood up pretty readily, but I just saw the 30 second clip on the first article. Maybe there was more to it. I couldn't tell if the other students were trying to help the teacher or help her. 

 

Seems like a bad situation to me, and the teacher definitely blew it. I just have a hard time thinking he was intentionally being abusive or violent, but rather clueless and stupid. I totally admit I could be wrong, though. 

 

In a video interview she stated she went to sit in the bleachers thinking he would leave her alone but instead he pulled her down the steps. That's not gentle or horseplay. I believe the laying down was her only defense because he would have had her in the pool quicker if she was standing.

 

FTR, I grew up with brothers and lots of horseplay too but by age 14 they would not have been pulling me around like this guy was. They just knew it was wrong and would cross a line.

 

[StephanieZ]

what? Now we're critiquing what she was wearing? :huh:

 

 

 

[as an aside, I know a female who has an absurdly long torso for her height/build & she pretty much has to wear two piece suits because she can't find any one piece ones that fit. Even the ones labelled tall have been too short. For lap swimming she wears a suit which has a top that's cut pretty much like a sport or yoga bra. They're called a sport 2 piece.]

 

 

Just seems to me cray-cray to wear a bikini top to a swim class, and it doesn't seem reasonable to me that anyone else should have to worry about a girl's top coming off during class. Good grief. I like bikinis, and my teen wears them and looks adorable and sexy, too. That's great. I just wouldn't have let her wear one to a swim class. How can you dive or do many other swimming things in a bikini top? I have worn them many times, and I always have to be cautious about diving, quick turns, etc. 

[unsinkable]

Actually, I'm not even convinced she should face an academic consequence. She swam laps with her head out of the water. She was proactively planning in order to be ready for an important competition later in the day while still participating and complying to a reasonable degree. I don't see a problem or a need for an academic consequence.

I'm not sure everyone knows that the girl said she got in the pool and swam, but just didnt get her hair wet.

 

It was in the middle of the thread.

[StephanieZ]

In a video interview she stated she went to sit in the bleachers thinking he would leave her alone but instead he pulled her down the steps. That's not gentle or horseplay. I believe the laying down was her only defense because he would have had her in the pool quicker if she was standing.

 

FTR, I grew up with brothers and lots of horseplay too but by age 14 they would not have been pulling me around like this guy was. They just knew it was wrong and would cross a line.

 

 

Well, that is definitely more information from the interview. Thanks. Pulling her from the bleachers, etc, indicates that this was an extended interaction, and he obviously crossed the line very clearly. 

 

Getting in the pool would have been a safer alternative for her, but I can imagine that she wasn't thinking clearly at the time, as I wouldn't have been either in that situation. 

 

Teacher = blew it. Should face serious disciplinary consequences. 

[umsami]

The HS my brother went to required passing a swim test to graduate.  (Swimming was part of PE.)  I also saw that in some NY schools when we were there.  I'm surprised it's not more common down here in FL, where drowning is till an issue.  

 

I am surprised that they don't require one pieces.  I wonder if the girl knew she had swimming, and wasn't planning on participate, why did she change into her swimsuit?

 

Having said all that, the teacher should never have touched her or tried to drag her in the pool.  Period.  

[SKL]

Yeah, like hell I would get in the water with a lunatic like that pushing me around.  In that kind of insane rage (over her head not being submerged) he could drown her.

 

As for the bikini, it looked fine to me, but since when is a student supposed to dress for being bodily dragged around on the pool deck?  Should they also not wear skirts in case the English teacher decides to drag them by the ankles up and down the hallway?

[unsinkable]

The HS my brother went to required passing a swim test to graduate. (Swimming was part of PE.) I also saw that in some NY schools when we were there. I'm surprised it's not more common down here in FL, where drowning is till an issue.

 

I am surprised that they don't require one pieces. I wonder if the girl knew she had swimming, and wasn't planning on participate, why did she change into her swimsuit?

 

Having said all that, the teacher should never have touched her or tried to drag her in the pool. Period.

It's buried in here somewhere...but she did get in the water and swim. She was trying to keep her hair dry.

[Mrs Mungo]

I got the feeling some people felt a student should just be able to decline to participate for any reason without any consequence, so it seems like a valid rabbit trail.  I disagree with that and think there should be an academic consequence, and a further consequence if behavoir was disruptive or disrespectful.

Right. It became a point of discussion in the thread because a few people stated early on in the thread that they basically thought gym was dumb so kids should be able to skip it for any old reason they want without consequence. I disagree with that.

 

I would AGREE that young women should be able to get drunk or wear a skimpy dress without facing anything other than a natural consequence of hangover/maybe showing more than you intend because those things aren't inherently wrong, IMO-they aren't breaking a law or even a rule of any kind about in generally speaking.

 

So, those would be very different discussions.

[umsami]

 

As for the bikini, it looked fine to me, but since when is a student supposed to dress for being bodily dragged around on the pool deck?  Should they also not wear skirts in case the English teacher decides to drag them by the ankles up and down the hallway?

 

The reason I mention it as at my brother's high school and the other high schools I was aware of, there was a dress code regarding swim attire.  One of them actually made them buy these one-piece swim suits that were kind of ugly.   The other required one pieces and board shorts for the guys.  

[unsinkable]

Right. It became a point of discussion in the thread because a few people stated early on in the thread that they basically thought gym was dumb so kids should be able to skip it for any old reason they want without consequence. I disagree with that.

 

I would AGREE that young women should be able to get drunk or wear a skimpy dress without facing anything other than a natural consequence of hangover/maybe showing more than you intend because those things aren't inherently wrong, IMO-they aren't breaking a law or even a rule of any kind about in generally speaking.

 

So, those would be very different discussions.

No, people did not say that early on in the thread. Certainly not before your post #12 where you said it was *rude not to do as the teacher says and disrespectful not to participate in class*

 

The closest was that Moxie said being forced to swim in gym class is stupid.

[Mrs Mungo]

No, people did not say that early on in the thread. Certainly not before your post #12 where you said it was *rude not to do as the teacher says and disrespectful not to participate in class*

 

The closest was that Moxie said being forced to swim in gym class is stupid.

From post #8, this is the one I was responding to.

"I know I'm probably in the minority but I don't see a problem with her refusing to participate."

 

I did *agree* in my post #12 that nothing should have happened beyond the girls getting a zero and/or getting sent to the office/detention/whatever.

 

Seriously. That is some serious ass nitpicking on your part. I know you've had a problem with me ever since that stupid Hunger Games thread, but seriously!

[unsinkable]

From post #8, this is the one I was responding to.

"I know I'm probably in the minority but I don't see a problem with her refusing to participate."

 

I did *agree* in my post #12 that nothing should have happened beyond the girls getting a zero and/or getting sent to the office/detention/whatever.

 

Seriously. That is some serious ass nitpicking on your part. I know you've had a problem with me ever since that stupid Hunger Games thread, but seriously!

Wow.

[Slartibartfast]

Just seems to me cray-cray to wear a bikini top to a swim class, and it doesn't seem reasonable to me that anyone else should have to worry about a girl's top coming off during class. Good grief. I like bikinis, and my teen wears them and looks adorable and sexy, too. That's great. I just wouldn't have let her wear one to a swim class. How can you dive or do many other swimming things in a bikini top? I have worn them many times, and I always have to be cautious about diving, quick turns, etc. 

 

 

A lot of people don't have several different swim suits. I was a swimmer in school and so I bought swim suits that were particularly made for athletic swimming. She is in GYM CLASS which would only have swimming occasionally. There is no reason to buy swim suits for an occasional gym class.

[happi duck]

I had to swim for gym in hs and it was more of a "don't drown" class. Ime, I doubt that girl was missing out on any intense training by keeping her hair dry for one day.

 

BTW, I'm another person who had to pass a swim test in college.