Teenage girl dragged into the pool by a teacher

[goldberry]

, do we really need to add protesting?

 

Apparently... :)  Who knew teachers were going to randomly attack students?  Geesh...

[goldberry]

But, I would bet that the girl didn't think that she had to get permission to skip swimming since she did get in the pool and swim the required laps. 

 

 

 

Yeah, that part of the story makes it even more bizarre...

 

As a side note, I was terrified of water and could swim, but NEVER with my head under water.  EVER. Guess I wouldn't have made it at that school...

[unsinkable]

This girl did participate in the class -she put on her swimsuit and got in the pool and swam the required laps. I don't understand how she disrupted the class simply because she did not put her head in the water. How is that disruptive to the other swimmers?

SMH...I just don't get how now even after it is being reported she got in the pool...that people are STILL saying she was disruptive.

[Mimm]

I'm stunned how ill prepared these kids are for protest.

 

She was pretty good but the others?

-Try to make a protective circle around the protester

-don't grab legs if the cop is pulling arms

-Doggie pile on the person and link arms instead. A wall of arm linked people is much more solid.

 

Bystanders, don't yell or scream; singing or chanting is much more effective. "No, no, she won't go!" "Hands Off!"

 

Once the judge has signed the injunction, don't resist actively. You can be limp but you can also just walk off with the cops. If you're chained to something, make it easy for the person with bolt cutters to free you.

 

Do we teach kids nothing these days??

 

Ha! This. So much more important than teaching our children to be mindless drones that obey whatever abusive control freak happens to have a little power over them.

 

This girl did participate in the class -she put on her swimsuit and got in the pool and swam the required laps.  I don't understand how she disrupted the class simply because she did not put her head in the water.  How is that disruptive to the other swimmers? 

 

It's not. People making noise about it being "disruptive" are desperate to blame the girl. You see victim blaming in any kind of physical or sexual assault story. It's really revolting. It DOES NOT MATTER what the girl did or what she was wearing or how petty her reasons were. Unless she was actively placing herself or another student in danger, that teacher had no right to lay a finger on her. 

 

[Guest]

This whole discussion is part of a bigger issue. We have a video of a young girl being assaulted by a male teacher. We (including myself here) have now had a 4 page discussion about the girl and her actions before the assault. She's been branded a brat and her ability to go to college has been questioned more than once. That's so wrong! It is okay to have a generic discussion about a student's rights to refuse an activity but, by discussing this girl and her reasons, aren't we adding to a very ugly element in our society??

[creekland]

Apparently... :)  Who knew teachers were going to randomly attack students?  Geesh...

 

HOPEFULLY, the fact that this made the news both means it's rare and if any other teacher out there even remotely is tempted to act this way, they'll change their minds.

[creekland]

It DOES NOT MATTER what the girl did or what she was wearing or how petty her reasons were. Unless she was actively placing herself or another student in danger, that teacher had no right to lay a finger on her. 

 

Exactly how many times do we need to say we agree to this?  I have yet to see one single person NOT agree with it.

[regentrude]

Not only do I Find his behaviour appalling, but I completely understand her excuse. She has school all day and an event to go that night, so she gets her hair done in the morning or at lunch hour because she won't have time later. What's her other option? Show up late to a formal event? Go without getting her hair done? Skip the last period of school? If it were my daughter I'd have told her to just skip gym; a formal event is more important than one swimming lesson with 30 other students.

 

Yes, he should not have touched her - but does it bother nobody that people are so obsessed with their HAIR?

 

It would not have occurred to me that preserving a hairdo could be an acceptable excuse for skipping anything. I certainly would not consider that as an excuse for my child to skip a class at school - nor could I envision getting out of responsibilities myself because something might mess up my hair.

Get a low maintenance haircut and a life.

 

 

 

[Mimm]

Exactly how many times do we need to say we agree to this?  I have yet to see one single person NOT agree with it.

 

Saying, "The teacher was wrong BUT she should have done XYZ differently and she was wearing the wrong clothes and I doubt she'll survive in college and my kids wouldn't get away with that nonsense and she's a spoiled brat and she can just fix her hair again later..." is NOT agreeing with the statement that it doesn't matter what she did. It's focusing on what the victim supposedly did wrong instead of on the person that actually caused and carried out the assault. Why isn't this thread about teachers and the mistakes they make and what we should be doing to avoid them and how schools can show respect for students and give them choices so that they're more in control of their lives at the age of 14 when they desperately want to be in control of things and it's developmentally appropriate for them to want this?

[happi duck]

I don't see a spoiled brat. I see a girl trying to get everything done...

She planned ahead for her cheer competition, still attended school and still swam laps.

 

It's not too much of a leap to think she had instructions from the cheer coach to be ready and at the competition by a certain time.

[Mergath]

Side question: am I truly the only one that sees swimming - an activity which requires being immersed in water perhaps over your head - an intimidating situation to mandate in a public school setting? To me it's inherently different than land-based exercise. It could send students into an anxiety episodes, and not just from messed up hair. Many people truly fear the water. Forcing their hand in a situation that may, as in the linked video, even lack sufficient lifeguard qualified supervision, seems rather foolish.

 

And yes I think everyone should learn to swim but this seems a not-beat way to go about it.

 

Am I truly the only one who feels this way? Did ALL the rest of you have swimming as required as PE?

 

I had swimming for high school gym class, but they didn't make everyone go in the deeper diving pool.  From what I remember, we had some basic instruction in the shallower lap pool, and then the rest of the hour was free time to work on whatever we wanted. Girls who had their period could sit out.  Nothing except paying attention during the instruction segment was mandated.

[unsinkable]

Yes, he should not have touched her - but does it bother nobody that people are so obsessed with their HAIR?

 

It would not have occurred to me that preserving a hairdo could be an acceptable excuse for skipping anything. I certainly would not consider that as an excuse for my child to skip a class at school - nor could I envision getting out of responsibilities myself because something might mess up my hair.

Get a low maintenance haircut and a life.

 

 

She was going to be in a cheerleading competition, which AFAIK* requires a certain look by all participants. Team competitions (cheer or dance) generally have everyone on the team do their hair all the same way.

 

We don't know what level of attention she gives to her hair on a day-to-day basis.

 

*i only know this from parents of girls who participate in these types of activites. My kids never did.

[unsinkable]

Exactly how many times do we need to say we agree to this? I have yet to see one single person NOT agree with it.

But we've also had people (me, for one, :D) agree the girl should have had a consequence and yet that point is also overlooked again and again.

[Joker]

She was going to be in a cheerleading competition, which AFAIK* requires a certain look by all participants. Team competitions (cheer or dance) generally have everyone on the team do their hair all the same way.

 

We don't know what level of attention she gives to her hair on a day-to-day basis.

 

*i only know this from parents of girls who participate in these types of activites. My kids never did.

 

There's a video of her and her mom discussing what happened and it doesn't look to me like she gives her hair or appearance any more attention than anyone else. She looked like your average teenager.

 

I was a cheerleader and many things required leaving as soon as school was over. We had just enough time to change into uniform and get on the bus, and on the way there if someone felt your hair and makeup weren't what they should be they would try to fix it. Appearance was definitely important for competitions. So, this girl was probably trying to fulfill all her obligations the best she could and it was unfortunate for her she had an idiot for a teacher.

[happi duck]

Yes, he should not have touched her - but does it bother nobody that people are so obsessed with their HAIR?

 

It would not have occurred to me that preserving a hairdo could be an acceptable excuse for skipping anything. I certainly would not consider that as an excuse for my child to skip a class at school - nor could I envision getting out of responsibilities myself because something might mess up my hair.

Get a low maintenance haircut and a life.

I can't manage a coherant post but I need to comment. This "get a life" statement makes me sad and angry.

[unsinkable]

There's a video of her and her mom discussing what happened and it doesn't look to me like she gives her hair or appearance any more attention than anyone else. She looked like your average teenager.

 

I was a cheerleader and many things required leaving as soon as school was over. We had just enough time to change into uniform and get on the bus, and on the way there if someone felt your hair and makeup weren't what they should be they would try to fix it. Appearance was definitely important for competitions. So, this girl was probably trying to fulfill all her obligations the best she could and it was unfortunate for her she had an idiot for a teacher.

That sounds reasonable.

[unsinkable]

I can't manage a coherant post but I need to comment. This "get a life" statement makes me sad and angry.

:grouphug:

 

I know what you mean.

[Guest submarines]

Yes, he should not have touched her - but does it bother nobody that people are so obsessed with their HAIR?

 

It would not have occurred to me that preserving a hairdo could be an acceptable excuse for skipping anything. I certainly would not consider that as an excuse for my child to skip a class at school - nor could I envision getting out of responsibilities myself because something might mess up my hair.

Get a low maintenance haircut and a life.

 

Cheerleading hair is a specialized style, which I assume involved a gallon of hairspray, so it was more than "hair"--it was a part of her proper appearance for her competition.

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I walked out of swim class when dangerous construction work was being done while students were in the pool. I had lobbied for reasonable warning that electrical work (!) would be preceded by a command to get out of the pool. When it didn't happen (again) I got out and walked to the principal's office.

 

I walked out of an English class when the teacher mocked a student for his religious beliefs and stirred up the class to join in the mocking. I stood up for him, was told to be quiet, and walked out.

 

I walked out of a social studies class when the teacher made the statement, and would not back down from it, that ALL Germans were Nazis.

 

I walked out of a cafeteria when a lunchroom aide forced me to eat ketchup that I could tell was rancid. I walked out of the lunchroom after that one taste and went straight to the principal's office and threw up.

 

Each time I walked out of a situation, I walked directly to the principal's office to tell him myself what had happened and that I wouldn't countenance it. The principal always knew that I took full responsibility for my actions and decisions.

 

I "got away" with all of this because I was known to be an intelligent and capable student who didn't whine over trifles but was absolutely known to take a stand when "I" thought it right. I had the support of siblings, friends, and (most importantly) parents to do whatever my integrity called for, if rational discussion and appeal failed. My parents' attitude was that if I behaved reasonably and with integrity I could and should take the suspension, take the expulsion, take whatever came, rather than turn my back on what I thought was right. I CANNOT IMAGINE being a student in the headline school stories of today. I wouldn't have been the victim, that's for damn sure. And I wouldn't have remained in the building to witness abuse of others. I'd have called the police.

 

Total bodily compliance in a 14yo girl is not something I value.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

What angers me is that students of today have zero latitude. In this era of zero tolerance they are to comply, 100%, or get expelled. They are to obey, instantly, or perhaps the police with dogs and tasers will show up. That's not school. That's not discipling a new generation toward adulthood. That's prison.

[justasque]

It would not have occurred to me that preserving a hairdo could be an acceptable excuse for skipping anything. I certainly would not consider that as an excuse for my child to skip a class at school - nor could I envision getting out of responsibilities myself because something might mess up my hair.

Get a low maintenance haircut and a life.

 

Competition Hair is incredibly important in sports like cheerleading, gymnastics, ice skating, and dance.  The hair has to be perfect for competition; that's part of the sport.  Whether it should be that way or not in these sports is neither here nor there; participants are letting down their teammates if they do not have the right hair for competition.  Participants often have no control over the specific style required, and that style may or may not be easy for a particular athlete to achieve with her particular hair.  (Curly girls who are expected to have long straight hair for performances have a particularly challenging time of it.)  For athletes, a once- or twice-a-week generic phys ed class is not nearly as important as the sport to which they may have been devoting 15-20 hours a week for many years.  These athletes have a life.  A school whose philosophy is along the lines of "be who you are, and be that well" (as opposed to one where rules and test scores are the focus) should be able to work with students who show this kind of dedication to a sport.

 

[dirty ethel rackham]

I'm stunned how ill prepared these kids are for protest.

 

She was pretty good but the others?

-Try to make a protective circle around the protester

-don't grab legs if the cop is pulling arms

-Doggie pile on the person and link arms instead. A wall of arm linked people is much more solid.

 

Bystanders, don't yell or scream; singing or chanting is much more effective. "No, no, she won't go!" "Hands Off!"

 

Once the judge has signed the injunction, don't resist actively. You can be limp but you can also just walk off with the cops. If you're chained to something, make it easy for the person with bolt cutters to free you.

 

Do we teach kids nothing these days??

Oh, dear.  I never learned this myself (the peace-loving, obsessively obedient to a fault kind of person I used to be.)  One more area where I am not qualified to homeschool my kids.  :tongue_smilie:

 

Yes, he should not have touched her - but does it bother nobody that people are so obsessed with their HAIR?

 

It would not have occurred to me that preserving a hairdo could be an acceptable excuse for skipping anything. I certainly would not consider that as an excuse for my child to skip a class at school - nor could I envision getting out of responsibilities myself because something might mess up my hair.

Get a low maintenance haircut and a life.

 

You obviously do not have curly hair.  Back in my day, having even remotely socially acceptable hair required lots and lots of work (longer was actually easier because you could put it up.)  After years of being teased (called brillo-head, orphan - after orphan annie, lots politically incorrect, racially inappropriate things), I learned that conforming by getting as close to "Marcia Brady, straight as a stick" hair was my ticket to a more normal, peaceful school experience.  That took work - lots and lots of work.  And just going in the water would have undone it, let alone putting my head under water.  I grew up with a pool in my backyard and spent my summers in a bikini and struggled with my hair.  But the mean people were not in my back yard, so I could be ugly and only have to deal with the often-cruel teasing of my siblings. 

 

She was going to be in a cheerleading competition, which AFAIK* requires a certain look by all participants. Team competitions (cheer or dance) generally have everyone on the team do their hair all the same way.

 

We don't know what level of attention she gives to her hair on a day-to-day basis.

 

*i only know this from parents of girls who participate in these types of activites. My kids never did.

:iagree: :iagree:

In cheerleading competitions, they are judged on appearance - from scuff marks on the shoes, to fit of the uniform, to hair.  Back then, hair just had to be neat.  These days, it has to be much more elaborate and makeup is much more out there.  I think she was trying to triage her life. 

 

Someone up thread mentioned something to the effect of he had 10 years of experience so he must not have been a bad teacher or he would not have lasted that long.  Really?  My high school was full of bad teachers who could not be fired.  Maybe they toed the line until they had tenure.  We had one who was absolutely bats#!) crazy.  If she hadn't been so frail, she would definitely have been a danger to her students.  They could not fire her despite all the parent complaints (back when parents thought teachers' words were gospel and kids were just disobedient.) 

[regentrude]

You obviously do not have curly hair.  Back in my day, having even remotely socially acceptable hair required lots and lots of work (longer was actually easier because you could put it up.)  After years of being teased (called brillo-head, orphan - after orphan annie, lots politically incorrect, racially inappropriate things), I learned that conforming by getting as close to "Marcia Brady, straight as a stick" hair was my ticket to a more normal, peaceful school experience.  That took work - lots and lots of work.  And just going in the water would have undone it, let alone putting my head under water.  I grew up with a pool in my backyard and spent my summers in a bikini and struggled with my hair.  But the mean people were not in my back yard, so I could be ugly and only have to deal with the often-cruel teasing of my siblings.

 

I do not, but I have a daughter with VERY curly hair.

She learned at some point to ignore "socially acceptable" hair (what a strange concept!) because it is a ridiculous waste of life time to spend hours daily to try to make one's hair conform some stereotype that does not come naturally.

 

She eventually accepted HER hair and body and beauty.

 

This society's obsession with appearance is sad.

[regentrude]

Competition Hair is incredibly important in sports like cheerleading, gymnastics, ice skating, and dance.  The hair has to be perfect for competition; that's part of the sport.  Whether it should be that way or not in these sports is neither here nor there; participants are letting down their teammates if they do not have the right hair for competition. 

 

Thanks for explaining. That her "special plans" were a cheerleading competition was not part of the original article.

 

The fact that these disciplines are so appearance driven is a whole other issue.... I am not going to open THAT can of worms. You are free to imagine my opinion. (And cheerleading in particular.. I am so NOT going there....)

 

[katilac]

Exactly how many times do we need to say we agree to this?  I have yet to see one single person NOT agree with it.

 

You agree that he should not have done it, but you also justify his actions and the school's reaction, imo. She must have done this in the past, there must be a history, everyone must know of her reputation and that's why he got such minimal punishment, and so on. Your posts are giving me the feeling of 'his actions were wrong but kind of understandable, because she probably provoked him, and he just snapped.' 

 

Yes, he should not have touched her - but does it bother nobody that people are so obsessed with their HAIR?

 

It would not have occurred to me that preserving a hairdo could be an acceptable excuse for skipping anything. I certainly would not consider that as an excuse for my child to skip a class at school - nor could I envision getting out of responsibilities myself because something might mess up my hair.

Get a low maintenance haircut and a life.

 

This is very narrow-minded. Not wanting to mess up a hairstyle ONE DAY, in deference to an important event where team mates are relying on her, does not equal her being obsessed with her hair. And she has a life, one that includes at least one competitive extra-curricular activity that sometimes conflicts with class, as MANY extracurriculars do. It's quite common for allowances to be made. 

 

I was never a cheerleader; more like the anti-cheerleader, lol. I am the very definition of low maintenance, but I certainly don't think that everyone with a sharper sense of style lacks a life. 

 

You can agree or disagree with the particular decision she made on this particular day, but it's not sound to extrapolate it to sweeping judgements on her entire life, or lack thereof. 

[unsinkable]

I do not, but I have a daughter with VERY curly hair.

She learned at some point to ignore "socially acceptable" hair (what a strange concept!) because it is a ridiculous waste of life time to spend hours daily to try to make one's hair conform some stereotype that does not come naturally.

 

She eventually accepted HER hair and body and beauty.

 

This society's obsession with appearance is sad.

That is so wonderful for your DD.

 

I wish you didn't have to insult and slam people like Ellen who shared something painful from her life in order to make your point.

[regentrude]

I wish you didn't have to insult and slam people like Ellen who shared something painful from her life in order to make your point.

 

I am not aware that I insulted and slammed another poster. I am sorry if it came across like that.

I am in fact, sympathizing with her when I complain about society's obsession with appearance - because she obviously suffered because of it.

[creekland]

Saying, "The teacher was wrong BUT she should have done XYZ differently and she was wearing the wrong clothes and I doubt she'll survive in college and my kids wouldn't get away with that nonsense and she's a spoiled brat and she can just fix her hair again later..." is NOT agreeing with the statement that it doesn't matter what she did. It's focusing on what the victim supposedly did wrong instead of on the person that actually caused and carried out the assault. Why isn't this thread about teachers and the mistakes they make and what we should be doing to avoid them and how schools can show respect for students and give them choices so that they're more in control of their lives at the age of 14 when they desperately want to be in control of things and it's developmentally appropriate for them to want this?

 

I guess you can see it this way.  I see it as two completely different issues and gauge them accordingly.

 

This thread isn't about teachers and the mistakes they make because there is no disagreement about this teacher's actions.  

 

We have been talking about how things can be avoided.  That's what all the info about channels/paths to do things are.

 

Schools do generally respect students.  That's why the channels/paths are there.  I have an extremely good rapport with the students at my school and there's still respect in the classroom - even when I have to cover gym due to a lack of subs for the day (the only way I ever get in a gym class).  This is more the norm - not the story that made the news.

 

What angers me is that students of today have zero latitude. In this era of zero tolerance they are to comply, 100%, or get expelled. They are to obey, instantly, or perhaps the police with dogs and tasers will show up. That's not school. That's not discipling a new generation toward adulthood. That's prison.

 

You are not describing the school I work at at all - not even close.

 

You agree that he should not have done it, but you also justify his actions and the school's reaction, imo. She must have done this in the past, there must be a history, everyone must know of her reputation and that's why he got such minimal punishment, and so on. Your posts are giving me the feeling of 'his actions were wrong but kind of understandable, because she probably provoked him, and he just snapped.' 

 

 

This is very narrow-minded. Not wanting to mess up a hairstyle ONE DAY, in deference to an important event where team mates are relying on her, does not equal her being obsessed with her hair. And she has a life, one that includes at least one competitive extra-curricular activity that sometimes conflicts with class, as MANY extracurriculars do. It's quite common for allowances to be made. 

 

I was never a cheerleader; more like the anti-cheerleader, lol. I am the very definition of low maintenance, but I certainly don't think that everyone with a sharper sense of style lacks a life. 

 

You can agree or disagree with the particular decision she made on this particular day, but it's not sound to extrapolate it to sweeping judgements on her entire life, or lack thereof. 

 

With the info released later (that she did swim laps and only wanted to not get her hair wet), I backed off on my judgment about her.  I did jump to conclusions based upon the info I first saw and the students I know who tend to make similar (not participate at all) decisions at our school.

 

I still feel there must be a history of some sort, but what that history is at this point is a little more mind boggling rather than the typical "under the bell curve" stuff.  It could be history totally on his side (mental illness?) or it could involve both.  No matter what, his reaction was wrong. 

[SKL]

Teacher done lost his mind.

 

I don't really care about the kid breaking a rule.  I mean, yes, kids in school have rules to follow and sometimes they break them and they get consequences.  The consequences are supposed to be limited to those listed in the student handbook.  I'm betting "get dragged" is not listed in any school's handbook.

 

When I was a teen, I intentionally chose not to do some stuff because I preferred the consequence over the activity.  So what?

 

A 14yo is in many ways a young woman and deserves a kind of respect as such.  You know, normal human boundaries.  I dare anyone to try to drag me; I'd break their arm and not apologize afterward.  :/

[unsinkable]

 

 

When I was a teen, I intentionally chose not to do some stuff because I preferred the consequence over the activity. So what?

:/

Well, you are living in a van down by the river...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:LOL:

[hornblower]

Oh, dear.  I never learned this myself (the peace-loving, obsessively obedient to a fault kind of person I used to be.)  One more area where I am not qualified to homeschool my kids.  :tongue_smilie:

 

 

Just like Latin or chemistry, you outsource or just get a good curriculum & learn along with your kids :D  Anyone can learn this, at any age.

 

& ya know, it's peace-loving folks that are the ones at the war protests & the nuclear disarmament marches. You'd fit right in  :tongue_smilie:

[dirty ethel rackham]

I do not, but I have a daughter with VERY curly hair.

She learned at some point to ignore "socially acceptable" hair (what a strange concept!) because it is a ridiculous waste of life time to spend hours daily to try to make one's hair conform some stereotype that does not come naturally.

 

She eventually accepted HER hair and body and beauty.

 

This society's obsession with appearance is sad.

 

That's great for your daughter.  However, now, there is a variety of what is socially acceptable hair.  There are also hair products that make curly hair much more manageable and beautiful.  Back when I was growing up, there was only one socially acceptable style.  Being called racial epithets at a pretty much all-white school was not conducive to self-acceptance.  It didn't matter that I am also white. 

 

I do agree that society's obsession with appearance is very sad. Any sport that is about performing for a crowd does have an appearance element to it.  However, there are so many more variations of what is considered beautiful these days compared to when I was growing up. 

 

[dirty ethel rackham]

Just like Latin or chemistry, you outsource or just get a good curriculum & learn along with your kids :D  Anyone can learn this, at any age.

 

& ya know, it's peace-loving folks that are the ones at the war protests & the nuclear disarmament marches. You'd fit right in  :tongue_smilie:

 

But they don't call it "civil disobedience" for nothin'.  :D  The disobedience part - that is what I have a problem with.  (Or was it the conflict, confrontation or even calling attention to myself part?) 

 

[Mimm]

That's great for your daughter.  However, now, there is a variety of what is socially acceptable hair.  There are also hair products that make curly hair much more manageable and beautiful.  Back when I was growing up, there was only one socially acceptable style.  Being called racial epithets at a pretty much all-white school was not conducive to self-acceptance.  It didn't matter that I am also white. 

 

I do agree that society's obsession with appearance is very sad. Any sport that is about performing for a crowd does have an appearance element to it.  However, there are so many more variations of what is considered beautiful these days compared to when I was growing up. 

 

 

This is kind of a tangent but I agree that this is true. My mother was in high school in the 70s and had straight flat hair but still ironed it to get it perfectly straight. Going through my grandfather's yearbook, all the girls had a variation of the same hair style. There is so much more variety now in what can be considered stylish.

[creekland]

I've been thinking about this while vacuuming (seriously what else is there to think about when doing a mindless task?).

 

I think the whole "blame the victim" deal is also a difference in how we (different groups) are understanding the vocab as I really don't think we disagree.

 

I see it as an "ideal world" vs "real world" deal.  In my ideal world there is no problem with leaving doors unlocked and backpacks by a table.  In my ideal world there are no guys taking advantage of girls coming to frat parties (see that horrifying thread on the college board).  In my ideal world there are no con artists trying phone or internet scams.

 

But in the real world?  I've taught my guys to keep their doors locked and watch their possessions like a hawk.  I've warned many kids (mine and those at school) about frat parties.  I've warned many and am careful myself on the internet and with phone callers.

 

I can still believe that any victim of those events is in the right and the crime done against them shouldn't have happened, but I teach folks to live in the real world for their best protection against being a victim.

 

When crimes do happen my family does talk about them and all the "what ifs."  The purpose is to learn from them.  I'd like to know the back story with that teacher - to try to make sure it doesn't happen with anyone else (to watch for clues).  It's the same reason I want to know the details about school shooters.  It in no way says that the criminals were justified in what they did - not even close - but it's an attempt to try to prevent non-ideal things in the real world for the future.

 

To me, it's the same here.

 

In the real world there are acceptable ways for guys and gals to avoid certain activities at school if they genuinely need to.  In the real world most teachers are understanding about such things.  Obviously, in the real world it doesn't happen correctly all the time, and when it doesn't, it is good to learn from those times.

[creekland]

When I was a teen, I intentionally chose not to do some stuff because I preferred the consequence over the activity.  So what?

 

 

Seriously?  Some of us were smart enough to avoid the consequences... and still are.  ;)

 

People would be in error if they thought I was a model student in my days at school.  I almost failed first grade for not getting along well with the teacher.  Shortly afterward I started figuring out how to be me and still make it work.

 

ps  Kids still do that at schools today.  As I stated before, teachers often know students and are (in reality) usually quite lenient rather than dictatorish (though there definitely are exceptions).

[BarbecueMom]

I know nothing about cheerleading, but having your hair done correctly can be a safety issue too. In high school marching band, my hair fell out of my hat once, blocking my peripheral vision, and I fell over a flugelhorn that was set on the field. I was fine, but a friend fell on the field the year before and broke an arm.

[Joanne]

I do not, but I have a daughter with VERY curly hair.

She learned at some point to ignore "socially acceptable" hair (what a strange concept!) because it is a ridiculous waste of life time to spend hours daily to try to make one's hair conform some stereotype that does not come naturally.

 

She eventually accepted HER hair and body and beauty.

 

This society's obsession with appearance is sad.

I do not spends daily. I did when I was trying to make my curly hair straight and had no information and product.

 

My vulnerable to submergion in water curly hair isn't about conformity; people ask me daily is I ever straighten it.

 

Hair, especially black, is complicated and I would not presume to evaluate a woman's decisions - it is far more complicated and difficult than I have experienced.

[unsinkable]

Do people feel safer, trying to point out that she was rude, disruptive, vain about her hair? So if my kids remain polite, compliant, humble...no one will drag them around the pool deck?

[momto10blessings]

Yes, he should not have touched her - but does it bother nobody that people are so obsessed with their HAIR?

 

It would not have occurred to me that preserving a hairdo could be an acceptable excuse for skipping anything. I certainly would not consider that as an excuse for my child to skip a class at school - nor could I envision getting out of responsibilities myself because something might mess up my hair.

Get a low maintenance haircut and a life.

I don't know... I'm not obsessed with my hair and I definitely have a low maintenance haircut. Ha- I'm lucky if it's brushed very day! But swimming during school would be a problem for me. I'd need only 5 minutes to get dressed afterwards but 30 minutes to dry my hair because it's so thick. Unless I had to walk around with wet hair the rest of the day which wouldn't be the end of the world but would be annoying. I doubt they get half an hour after swimming to dry and fix their hair.

[goldberry]

I do not, but I have a daughter with VERY curly hair.

She learned at some point to ignore "socially acceptable" hair (what a strange concept!) because it is a ridiculous waste of life time to spend hours daily to try to make one's hair conform some stereotype that does not come naturally.

 

She eventually accepted HER hair and body and beauty.

 

This society's obsession with appearance is sad.

 

And that is great for your daughter!  I am helping my daughter also to feel comfortable with herself - it's a process and not easy at 14 or 15. In the meantime though, I'm not telling her to "get a life" because she feels actual hurt or is sensitive about her appearance.

[goldberry]

. I'd need only 5 minutes to get dressed afterwards but 30 minutes to dry my hair because it's so thick. Unless I had to walk around with wet hair the rest of the day which wouldn't be the end of the world but would be annoying. I doubt they get half an hour after swimming to dry and fix their hair.

 

 

YES!  I am in awe how long it takes DD to dry her hair.  And to air dry naturally when she was trying to let it stay curly...it was still wet at 4 in the afternoon!

 

My flat lifeless hair is dry in less than your 5 minutes to dress... :glare:

[goldberry]

This whole discussion is part of a bigger issue. We have a video of a young girl being assaulted by a male teacher. We (including myself here) have now had a 4 page discussion about the girl and her actions before the assault. She's been branded a brat and her ability to go to college has been questioned more than once. That's so wrong! It is okay to have a generic discussion about a student's rights to refuse an activity but, by discussing this girl and her reasons, aren't we adding to a very ugly element in our society??

 

 

Asking this honestly, because I really don't always get this part...why isn't it ok to have two topics here?  Why does discussing the girl's actions (which I don't even think were really "wrong" maybe could've been handled better) but why does that automatically = we are blaming her?  I know I'm not blaming her.  I know that I don't feel ANYTHING justifies that kind of behavior, that guy should be arrested.  So why can't I have a separate opinion on her behavior without it automatically meaning I am dismissing her experience or adding to an ugly element in our society?

[katilac]

And that is great for your daughter!  I am helping my daughter also to feel comfortable with herself - it's a process and not easy at 14 or 15. In the meantime though, I'm not telling her to "get a life" because she feels actual hurt or is sensitive about her appearance.

 

It's definitely a process. I also think we homeschool parents need to remember that our kids 'have it easy' in the social pressure department, compared to kids who are in school all day, every day. 

[*Lulu*]

The attitudes expressed in some of the posts on this thread make me VERY glad we homeschool- I would never have guessed that the idea that obedience does not equal respect and bodily autonomy does not equal brat were progressive ideas.

 

I graduated from PS almost 2 decades ago and can tell you that I never was unquestioningly obedient. I was also never in trouble from the administration or my parents for the times I chose to question or was "uncooperative". During the year I overloaded my schedule academically, against the advice of both my parents and the school counselor, I had many occasions where I performed homework triage and left something undone. I still managed to graduate HS with honors, earn a BA, and hold many paying jobs, of which I can say I have never once been fired, since the year I turned 15 until today.

 

Being in a position of authority does not automatically entitle you to respect.

 

Being a student in a PS does not automatically nullify the right to be treated with human dignity.

 

It puts me in mind of this quote:

 

“I'm right and you're wrong, I'm big and you're small, and there's nothing you can do about it.â€

― Roald Dahl, Matilda

[SKL]

I'm pretty shocked that people are discussing this girl's hair.

 

My daughter last year refused to participate in gym, because they were doing Zumba and she felt self-conscious.  She got an "F" for the day and that was the end of it.  I hate to think of what I'd turn into if I found out some teacher dragged her around over that or over anything else.  Someone ought to get *that* [my reaction] on tape.  It could serve as footage for a horror film.

 

The girl didn't want to submerge her hair that day.  BIG DEAL.  This discussion reminds me of Jane Eyre when they cut off a girl's (natural) hair because it was unacceptably red or curly or something.

 

I'm glad I didn't have a pool at my school as a kid.  I was very self-conscious about being in a bathing suit.  I never wore one from age 13 to some mature adult age.  I know that is not super OK, but how can it be a reason for adults to act like idiots?  No.  A sane adult would give the girl sane options.  Like when I sat out of gym for part of 9th grade (claiming back pain), I had to write research papers for my grade.  A girl who didn't want to get her hair wet could do some push-ups or something.  Big freaking deal.  I can't think of too many things that are less important than how a girl manages her competition hair issue.

[Mrs Mungo]

People are only discussing the girl's behavior in a general sense because several people have stated that they see nothing wrong with refusing to participate in gym class. I didn't actually say anything about this specific girl's behavior, I stated that I think it is important to comply with public school expectations, if you choose to participate in that system OR accept reasonable consequences (which, OF COURSE, the teacher's actions in this case were NOT).

 

And yes, I have curly hair too.

[Mrs Mungo]

The attitudes expressed in some of the posts on this thread make me VERY glad we homeschool- I would never have guessed that the idea that obedience does not equal respect and bodily autonomy does not equal brat were progressive ideas.

 

I graduated from PS almost 2 decades ago and can tell you that I never was unquestioningly obedient. I was also never in trouble from the administration or my parents for the times I chose to question or was "uncooperative". During the year I overloaded my schedule academically, against the advice of both my parents and the school counselor, I had many occasions where I performed homework triage and left something undone. I still managed to graduate HS with honors, earn a BA, and hold many paying jobs, of which I can say I have never once been fired, since the year I turned 15 until today.

 

Being in a position of authority does not automatically entitle you to respect.

 

Being a student in a PS does not automatically nullify the right to be treated with human dignity.

 

It puts me in mind of this quote:

 

“I'm right and you're wrong, I'm big and you're small, and there's nothing you can do about it.â€

― Roald Dahl, Matilda

I don't think expecting students to participate in a class they are present for is at all equal to stating that it nullifies one's right to be treated with dignity. I think that is a pretty inflammatory frame that doesn't fit what most people are saying.

 

If students were reading out loud in English class and students refused to participate, then what? I think sending them to a detention style classroom for the period and/or giving a zero for the day would both be completely reasonable. NOBODY has stated in any way shape or form that the teacher in the video acted in a reasonable manner.

[Slartibartfast]

For all we know she was about to go sing in a funeral.

 

It doesn't say she had a "date" or anything else. It simply says she didn't want to get her hair wet. We don't know if she had to leave right afterwards or what.

 

There are some circumstances in which I would not have cared if she participated. I also would have provided a note saying she wasn't going to be swimming that day.

 

The teacher ought to be fired IMO.

 

 

If I go swimming I am definitely going to need time to wash my hair, apply hair product, and let it dry or I would not be fit to be seen. 

[SKL]

So then why bring up the hair and her "choices" at all?  Or was somebody saying all children should be free to opt in or out at will without any consequences?

 

Personally I am not in favor of mandatory gym participation, but at present there are rules and kids know there are [sane] consequences for disobedience.  Obviously this would not be a news story if the girl had received the usual kind of consequence, e.g., zero grade, contact to parents, extra work, or even a detention.  The news is not that girls are supposed to listen to their teachers (except when the teachers' requests are patently unacceptable).  The news is that one teacher went off his gourd on a girl who does something 14yo girls do every day (disobey instructions).