Teenage girl dragged into the pool by a teacher

[unsinkable]

Well, yes. I did participate in PE, every single day for two years. I did not like PE so much, but I did it. There was never a reason not to. I also participated in in class assignments in my other subjects. No one asked me to do anything out of the ordinary, so there was no reason to questionn it.

 

My older two enrolled in public high school. I saw for my ds and see for my dd a good many assignments. I haven't see one yet I disliked enough to try to have them opt out. Most of their work was/is well planned. Dd is introverted and hates the participation requirement in IB French. That's life it's a spoken language. She needs to work even if it makes her uncomfortable.

 

unless assignments are outside the course curriculum, why would it be OK to ignore assigned work during class time. I do know some kids do ignore assigned work during the day. But really, you are at school, you might as well follow through with the job of being a student since you are there.

 

What kinds of things did you ignore? Did just not feel like it? Did you take that good work ethic with you to the job?

Sometimes very driven, very busy students have to triage their assignments and the least important assignments don't get done. If a student has HW that counts for very little on a night with lots of other HW or studying to do for very important exams, the little stuff doesn't get done.

 

I don't think it's a moral failing or disrespectful to do this.

[LucyStoner]

Ok, if it is hair, why not just pass out swim caps?

 

But I am not unsympathetic on the hair thing. It takes me, a grown ass woman, a full 20 minutes to get my nieces hair decent for just walking around town after a shower. She takes longer because it is harder to do your own difficult hair than it is to have it done for you. And she *can't* go in chlorine without having a decent after chemical shampoo available. I will never think about hair as being easy peasy after helping her these last 6 months.

 

Respectful or not, physical violence isn't the answer. His actions dwarf hers.

[katilac]

<snip>

 

unless assignments are outside the course curriculum, why would it be OK to ignore assigned work during class time. I do know some kids do ignore assigned work during the day. But really, you are at school, you might as well follow through with the job of being a student since you are there.

 

What kinds of things did you ignore? Did just not feel like it? Did you take that good work ethic with you to the job?

 

It's not that it's okay or desirable to ignore assigned work; it's just that otherwise good kids occasionally do so over the course of 12 years, and still go on to be law-abiding, productive citizens. It's an endless source of amusement to me when posters are shocked, shocked, every time a toddler throws a tantrum, a teen gets moody, or a student skives off school work. In my crazy, mixed-up world, it happens to even the best of kids, and it's rarely a sign of impending doom. 

 

Let's see: I ignored as much of gym class as possible, and we didn't even have a pool. Sometimes I ignored an assignment because I thought it was stupid or I knew it wouldn't affect my grade much or I was tired. 

 

I worked while in school, and went on to college and a variety of jobs, and I've never had any complaints about my work ethic. Most people are quite capable of discerning that, yes, I can get away with refusing to play dodgeball in gym class, but no, I cannot get away with not completing the monthly budget at work. 

 

The point is that people should not take one small fact (this girl refused to swim in gym class on this day) and use it to extrapolate general ideas about her character or history (she's spoiled, she must do this all the time, she has a poor work ethic). 

[Mergath]

I can't help wondering if all the people who claim they would never ask their child to do a school assignment they didn't want to do have the same standards for homeschooling.  If you ask your child to do, say, a math assignment, is it okay for your child to tell you no?  Or is it only OTHER authority figures they don't have to listen to?

 

I think the PE teacher was 100% wrong and should be prosecuted, btw.  But I'm also fascinated at how many people wouldn't have a problem with (and really, in some cases even encourage) their children not doing the things expected of them in a public school.  

[Mrs Mungo]

If a teenager being rude or disrespectful makes one go ape sh*t crazy, perhaps one should not teach high school.

And I completely and whole-heartedly agreed with that in my post.

 

Are you sure you aren't suffering from a wee bit of 'back in my day' syndrome? I graduated over 30 years ago. If they had sent every single student who misbehaved or refused to participate to the principal every single time . . . well, let's just say it would have had to have been a very big office.

 

My parents were in high school over 60 years ago. They assure me that kids misbehaved in school even back in those ancient times, and not every offense was met with a trip to the principal.

I attended a very large high school. We had multiple principals. And when I said that they were sent to the principal's office and placed in In School Suspension, I didn't mean to imply that the principal personally dealt with each case. The office usually dealt with it based upon notes sent by the teacher. So, a teacher might write, "Suzy refuses to participate in gym class," Suzy would take the note to the office, and they would deal with it by sticking Suzy elsewhere for the class.

 

Eta: I have three teenagers in my home, one of whom has graduated high school. I don't find it a teeny tiny bit surprising when they misbehave. I do find it a little surprising that any parent sending their child through the school system would think it is fine and dandy to ignore the teacher and regularly ignore assignments. If gym is a required class, then the kid should do it or face a consequence. As long as they are willing to accept the consequence, then that should be that. In no way should that consequence be a physical attack on the student.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I guess this must be a worldview difference--teaching my children to be sweet and comply isn't one of my goals.

 

I am teaching them self-respect and to listen to their gut. Part of that is having control over their own bodies. I would support my child if he or she chose not to swim even if I disagreed with the reason (and I think 'hair' is a perfectly valid reason).

My thoughts exactly.  My children always have the right to refuse just about anything (I'm the only one who gets to give a mandate).  Knowing that gives them a sense of control and more confidence, less likely to just go along. They know they don't HAVE to help take out the trash/pick up the yard/stack firewood (it's COLD here y'all!) but they do it anyway. 

.... and for those of you who have said that since she chose to be there then she has to participate.... I NEVER chose to be at school, I was made to go.  Maybe most people didn't have the soul destroying experience I did in Jr High, but seriously how many "couldn't wait to go to school!"  

[foxbridgeacademy]

I can't help wondering if all the people who claim they would never ask their child to do a school assignment they didn't want to do have the same standards for homeschooling.  If you ask your child to do, say, a math assignment, is it okay for your child to tell you no?  Or is it only OTHER authority figures they don't have to listen to?

 

I think the PE teacher was 100% wrong and should be prosecuted, btw.  But I'm also fascinated at how many people wouldn't have a problem with (and really, in some cases even encourage) their children not doing the things expected of them in a public school.  

I can only answer for myself, but my children have the right to argue their "case" even with me. The lack of control I and my children would have over themselves at P.S. is one of the primary reasons we home school.  To put it another way though, my DD tried P.S. last year with the full understanding that if she broke "stupid" rules she would have to suffer the schools discipline code. After all she is choosing to be there (probably one of few).  She also knew that it would unlikely carry over to the home environment, especially if we discussed it beforehand.    

[Mrs Mungo]

I can only answer for myself, but my children have the right to argue their "case" even with me. The lack of control I and my children would have over themselves at P.S. is one of the primary reasons we home school. To put it another way though, my DD tried P.S. last year with the full understanding that if she broke "stupid" rules she would have to suffer the schools discipline code. After all she is choosing to be there (probably one of few). She also knew that it would unlikely carry over to the home environment, especially if we discussed it beforehand.

Which is just fine as long as everyone is on the same page and ready to face any consequences (to re-iterate, again, should never include actions like those taken by the teacher in question).

[Ausmumof3]

I'm one who generally expects my kids to be polite and cooperative. I expect them to participate in their group activities. But I think high school girls and gym classes particularly swimming is a totally separate thing. The two girls I knew that often sat out of various gym classes later found out they had endo and had fertility issues etc.

 

I do kind of get the let one so it and they'll all do it issue as I have it even with my own kids. But the girl doesn't necessarily have any say over whether or not she goes to public school.

[Laura Corin]

Yes, what the teacher did was wrong.  

 

I find a lot of this discussion mysterious.  In the school I attended (and I think in the boys' school) refusal to swim would have led to being sent to the head's office and being put in detention.  Continuing refusal to swim (or do maths, or clear up after lunch.....) would lead to escalating punishments and parental involvement.  My school (and I assume the boys') had procedures in place so that girls who did not use tampons could sit out discreetly.  Questions were only raised if this seemed to happen unexpectedly frequently (and could be answered by a doctor's note).  

 

I go to work outside the home.  I have to do certain tasks and dress a certain way.  That's what I signed up for.  I can't just decide that my self esteem/bodily integrity requires me (post sign up) to stop serving tea or begin wearing jeans to work.

 

Getting your hair mussed up before an event?  School is a child's work.  If the child is signed up for school, then it takes precedence over leisure activities.

 

You won't find me blaming the victim in cases of assault, and I do not think that the girl in this case should have been manhandled.  But I have no problem whatsoever with requiring people to do what they (or their parents) signed them up for.

 

L

[Another Lynn]

Just googled and watched with my dh and read accompanying article.  I don't think I've seen it mentioned here, but I think the article said she swam laps without getting her hair wet.  I think this sheds a little light on her attitude as being willing to participate to a certain degree and not outright rebellious.  I think that paints a little different picture of her than some have done here. 

[Joanne]

If you child is enrolled in gym class then you and he/she should expect to do the physical exercise involved in gym class, just as if your child were enrolled in Algebra and was expected to complete a math assignment. That is what gym class is. If you don't expect your child to do the basic assignment of a course then do not enroll.

 

I will maintain hair is an incredibly stupid reason. There is no reason not to plan your hair style for the time you have that day. People do that all the time. It is a basic life skill.

I can not "plan my hair" for a short term destruction with water. It does not work that way. The result would be way beyond a "bad hair day".

[bettyandbob]

Just googled and watched with my dh and read accompanying article. I don't think I've seen it mentioned here, but I think the article said she swam laps without getting her hair wet. I think this sheds a little light on her attitude as being willing to participate to a certain degree and not outright rebellious. I think that paints a little different picture of her than some have done here.

Not really.

 

The teacher is still wrong.

 

I have a hard time believing "swim with your head above water " would be a direction or even a response known to be acceptable. That would be like being told to run a mile and doing slow motion movement so you didn't sweat. My teacher would have said it didn't count and you had to actually do the assignment or accept a consequence. This teacher did not make use of appropriate consequences and did something he should be prosecuted for. The girl refused to properly participate. Half-a...participation can be worse and more disruptive than not dressing and sitting out, because you an example of a student getting credit for not actually working and following directions.

 

Can you link your reference.

[kewb]

That video brought tears to my eyes. I don't know what the student said or did to provoke such a reaction but that teacher was way out of line. Or if she even did anything at all rude and disrespectful.

 

Other students trying to help her, hitting the teacher with a kick board, the water throwing, the screaming. None of this was enough to get through to the teacher that he was going overboard?

 

It was very disturbing. And the video is 90 seconds? How long was it going on before someone took out their phone?

 

On a totally separate track, the student filming had the presence of mind to film it but not to go get help. There is another problem right there.

[Another Lynn]

Not really.

 

The teacher is still wrong.

 

I have a hard time believing "swim with your head above water " would be a direction or even a response known to be acceptable. That would be like being told to run a mile and doing slow motion movement so you didn't sweat. My teacher would have said it didn't count and you had to actually do the assignment or accept a consequence. This teacher did not make use of appropriate consequences and did something he should be prosecuted for. The girl refused to properly participate. Half-a...participation can be worse and more disruptive than not dressing and sitting out, because you an example of a student getting credit for not actually working and following directions.

 

Can you link your reference.

 

http://fox13now.com/2014/11/21/report-gym-teacher-charged-over-video-of-him-dragging-teen-girl-into-pool/comment-page-1/

 

I'm all for following rules, respecting teachers, etc., but man, I'm glad you were never one of mine! 

 

[SarahW]

I can not "plan my hair" for a short term destruction with water. It does not work that way. The result would be way beyond a "bad hair day".

 

Swim cap?

 

I'm totally confused by this whole conversation. Don't they still have swim caps these days?

[unsinkable]

My thoughts exactly. My children always have the right to refuse just about anything (I'm the only one who gets to give a mandate). Knowing that gives them a sense of control and more confidence, less likely to just go along. They know they don't HAVE to help take out the trash/pick up the yard/stack firewood (it's COLD here y'all!) but they do it anyway.

.... and for those of you who have said that since she chose to be there then she has to participate.... I NEVER chose to be at school, I was made to go. Maybe most people didn't have the soul destroying experience I did in Jr High, but seriously how many "couldn't wait to go to school!"

I am so sorry about your Jr. High experience. :grouphug:

[creekland]

I'm glad my parents stood by me when I refused to complete an assignment that I thought was inappropriate or when I stopped participating in a class because I was tired of the way I was being treated by a teacher who was a bully. I'm glad they taught me how to make my case and explain my reasoning all the way up to the principal's office. I'm glad the principal had enough respect for my rights as a person to listen to what I had to say. But mostly I'm glad that in both cases, even though it may have been annoying to the teacher or difficult for them to deal with, no one thought it was acceptable to put their hands on me and physically force me to comply.

 

In the case of the assignment, I took the zero. In the case of the bully teacher, he was made to change and I was able to learn in a safe environment. In both cases, if I had to live it all over again, I would have made the same choice. Sometimes the answer is no and dragging a child into the pool like seen in the video is never ok.

 

You worked through the system.  That's what I'm advocating and it's what I teach my students to do at school.  A bit of good came out of your actions.

 

And yes, we all agree the teacher was wrong no matter what the student was doing.

 

They are only incorrect stereotypes because they do not apply to you and where you reside. The examples given are not incorrect for those of us who reside elsewhere. There is no "one way" modern public school systems are run these days and many are doing quite well allowing students to opt out of participating in PE. I actually exempted my youngest from PE for the entire school year this year. It's a little known 'out' that many don't know about, but all they have to do is fill out the correct paperwork. The class that she is taking in place of PE is much more beneficial to her at this moment. I come from a long line of educators and the one thing they all agree on is that there is not only one correct way to do things.

 

I agree that they don't all do it the same way, but what I suspect is that ALL schools have an appropriate "out" for this situation just as yours does and mine does.  It's too common of a situation not to have a policy in place.

 

Sometimes very driven, very busy students have to triage their assignments and the least important assignments don't get done. If a student has HW that counts for very little on a night with lots of other HW or studying to do for very important exams, the little stuff doesn't get done.

 

I don't think it's a moral failing or disrespectful to do this.

 

And as I mentioned before, ALL teachers I know IRL give kids a break when this happens.  Sometimes they lose points on an assignment, but in those cases, they knew of the assignment days in advance - not last minute.  Based upon my own ps guy, I'd say teachers are sometime too lenient at my school as they didn't set him up very well for college where there is less leniency, but that could easily just be my school.

 

When I do math homework checks there can easily be from 0 - 5 students (average class of 28) who don't have the assignment completed on any given day due to activities or just plain forgetting.  They don't get sent to the office for that.  If they have three consecutive missing assignments, then they get detention from the teacher by our school's policy.

 

If a student is sitting in math class and refuses to work on classwork (notes, examples, test, whatever), then they get to explain to the admin (not the principal, but those who deal with discipline) as to why they won't.  And this assumes they aren't sick as allowances are made for that.  The last student that did it in my class got sent to the guidance office instead of the admin office as I thought she had a personal issue instead.  It turns out I was wrong (it should have been an admin deal), but I make my judgments based upon what I think at the time.  So do other teachers - well - except that guy.  He was wrong.  Completely wrong.

[snowbeltmom]

I have a hard time believing "swim with your head above water " would be a direction or even a response known to be acceptable. That would be like being told to run a mile and doing slow motion movement so you didn't sweat. My teacher would have said it didn't count and you had to actually do the assignment or accept a consequence. This teacher did not make use of appropriate consequences and did something he should be prosecuted for. The girl refused to properly participate. Half-a...participation can be worse and more disruptive than not dressing and sitting out, because you an example of a student getting credit for not actually working and following directions.

 

 

 

What difference does it make whether or not the girl was swimming with her head above the water?  The girl was participating in gym class.

 

How is swimming with your head above water disruptive?  Swimming with her head above the water is worse than refusing to get in the pool at all? :confused1:

 

Imo, this girl was respectful and did participate.  The gym teacher has anger/control issues and should never step foot in a classroom again.  I would not be surprised if it surfaces later that this is not the first time this jerk has roughed-up a student.

 

[unsinkable]

I can only answer for myself, but my children have the right to argue their "case" even with me. The lack of control I and my children would have over themselves at P.S. is one of the primary reasons we home school. To put it another way though, my DD tried P.S. last year with the full understanding that if she broke "stupid" rules she would have to suffer the schools discipline code. After all she is choosing to be there (probably one of few). She also knew that it would unlikely carry over to the home environment, especially if we discussed it beforehand.

Yes. My kids could discuss with me, too, about chores and school work. Could they skip the entire chapter on fractions? Nope, but they could set their schoolwork aside and finish a book, or play outside or go rest...with the understanding that the lesson needs to be finished by XYZ time.

 

And in most of my kids' outside classes, it is spelled out exactly what happens, academically, if work isn't done. So they can make their choices and know ahead of time what happens ("I don't accept late homework" OR "You lose 10 points for every day the essay is late." OR "Unless prior arrangements are made, you will take a missed test on the day you return to class." OR "You must keep up with assigned class readings. Failure to do so will result in a participation grade of zero." )

 

 

From my very. first. post. on this thread I wrote, "I think if the girl chose not to participate, that is her choice and it should be handled like any other academic situation, like not doing her homework or not participating in a class discussion."

 

So I DID acknowledge that these choices have consequences. I do object to the name-calling and the implication that not participating in gym class or not doing one's homework is disruptive, rude, etc.

 

There are situations where it is not a black mark on one's character if one doesn't do his homework.

 

I'm not saying you feel this way, foxbridgeacademy. I agree with your post and I am using it as a jumping off point.

[zoobie]

If we aren't blaming the victim, why is the majority of the discussion about her behavior and even her clothing? Is her being assaulted less horrifying if she is a spoiled brat? Instead of focusing on the bully criminal and the school's "discipline" of him, we are smearing the girl's character. Really? She's not going to be successful in college and beyond because one day (which is all we know) when she was 14 she didn't want to swim laps? Good grief.

[bettyandbob]

What difference does it make whether or not the girl was swimming with her head above the water? The girl was participating in gym class.

 

How is swimming with your head above water disruptive? Swimming with her head above the water is worse than refusing to get in the pool at all? :confused1:

 

Imo, this girl was respectful and did participate. The gym teacher has anger/control issues and should never step foot in a classroom again. I would not be surprised if it surfaces later that this is not the first time this jerk has roughed-up a student.

 

Purposely not using the proper technique of the activity is disruptive. A school that has swimming on the curriculum is going for water safety. Proper technique mean you can swim further and longer. So, swimming head up is unlikely to fulfill the assignment unless the focus was on short distance rescue swim or spotting in triathlon training. In algebra class you can get problems wrong for not doing technique being taught that week, but still getting the write answer. The teacher may keep you after class to redo the assignment you did using substation, using the equation addition method. Swimming with your head elevated is not going to meet the requirements of most swimming assignments.

 

Teacher was wrong as agreed.

[unsinkable]

Just googled and watched with my dh and read accompanying article. I don't think I've seen it mentioned here, but I think the article said she swam laps without getting her hair wet. I think this sheds a little light on her attitude as being willing to participate to a certain degree and not outright rebellious. I think that paints a little different picture of her than some have done here.

Holy cow.

 

This is from the article:

 

FOX 40 reports that the 13-year-old student did not submerse her hair while swimming laps because she had a cheerleading competition later.

 

“I swam laps like the teacher asked but I did not want my hair wet,†the student told FOX 40. “My hair looked good that day.â€

[creekland]

If we aren't blaming the victim, why is the majority of the discussion about her behavior and even her clothing? Is her being assaulted less horrifying if she is a spoiled brat? Instead of focusing on the bully criminal and the school's "discipline" of him, we are smearing the girl's character. Really? She's not going to be successful in college and beyond because one day (which is all we know) when she was 14 she didn't want to swim laps? Good grief.

 

Because we all agree that his actions were horrid and unjustified.  There's no discussion needed for that part.  It'd be a short thread.

 

All the rest is more or less "what if that had been our kid" scenarios we are musing about.  Would they have ever been in that situation?  Would we support them if they were (NOT relating it to the teacher's actions as that is a given)?  How could we better go about a similar deal if it were to come up in any of our futures (eg our kids are in ps and don't want to do something for a legitimate reason)?

 

Those are the things that are actually discussion-worthy IMO.

[bettyandbob]

If we aren't blaming the victim, why is the majority of the discussion about her behavior and even her clothing? Is her being assaulted less horrifying if she is a spoiled brat? Instead of focusing on the bully criminal and the school's "discipline" of him, we are smearing the girl's character. Really? She's not going to be successful in college and beyond because one day (which is all we know) when she was 14 she didn't want to swim laps? Good grief.

No one is in disagreement on what to do with the teacher. There's no need for discussion on him.

 

I have a problem with students refusing to follow a basic assignment of a class. This would be an assignment expected based on the curriculum, not something dangerous, not something that hits a moral issue, not a religious issue. It shows a lack of work ethic that is a reflection of character.

[creekland]

Holy cow.

 

This is from the article:

 

FOX 40 reports that the 13-year-old student did not submerse her hair while swimming laps because she had a cheerleading competition later.

 

“I swam laps like the teacher asked but I did not want my hair wet,†the student told FOX 40. “My hair looked good that day.â€

 

IF this is correct (it may very well be), then my assumptions about her are more incorrect that I thought.  

 

It really wouldn't add up to what happened at all without more backstory of some sort.  The backstory could be pretty much anything on either side (he's done it before and gotten away with it or she and he have butted heads and this was just the straw that broke the camel's back), but something else had to contribute to his over the wall reaction.  

 

And as always, no matter what the backstory, his reaction was wrong.

[unsinkable]

No one is in disagreement on what to do with the teacher. There's no need for discussion on him.

 

I have a problem with students refusing to follow a basic assignment of a class. This would be an assignment expected based on the curriculum, not something dangerous, not something that hits a moral issue, not a religious issue. It shows a lack of work ethic that is a reflection of character.

I disagree. Perhaps a continued pattern of not doing homework " shows a lack of work ethic " but missing random assignments here and there doesn't, IMO, show a lack of work ethic.

 

Missing assignments happen. To good kids who want to do well in school. Really and truly.

[Guest submarines]

Not really.

 

The teacher is still wrong.

 

I have a hard time believing "swim with your head above water " would be a direction or even a response known to be acceptable. That would be like being told to run a mile and doing slow motion movement so you didn't sweat. My teacher would have said it didn't count and you had to actually do the assignment or accept a consequence. This teacher did not make use of appropriate consequences and did something he should be prosecuted for. The girl refused to properly participate. Half-a...participation can be worse and more disruptive than not dressing and sitting out, because you an example of a student getting credit for not actually working and following directions.

 

Can you link your reference.

 

:eek: She's in a PE class, not on a US swim team!

 

[Guest submarines]

That video brought tears to my eyes. I don't know what the student said or did to provoke such a reaction but that teacher was way out of line. Or if she even did anything at all rude and disrespectful.

 

Other students trying to help her, hitting the teacher with a kick board, the water throwing, the screaming. None of this was enough to get through to the teacher that he was going overboard?

 

It was very disturbing. And the video is 90 seconds? How long was it going on before someone took out their phone?

 

On a totally separate track, the student filming had the presence of mind to film it but not to go get help. There is another problem right there.

 

There were other students helping. The student filming had the presence of mind to get the hard evidence. Good for him/ her! (though of course he could be filming with hopes of having a viral video...)

[katilac]

  Really? She's not going to be successful in college and beyond because one day (which is all we know) when she was 14 she didn't want to swim laps? Good grief.

 

Yes, some of the leaps being made in this thread are a bit extreme. 

[unsinkable]

Purposely not using the proper technique of the activity is disruptive. A school that has swimming on the curriculum is going for water safety. Proper technique mean you can swim further and longer. So, swimming head up is unlikely to fulfill the assignment unless the focus was on short distance rescue swim or spotting in triathlon training. In algebra class you can get problems wrong for not doing technique being taught that week, but still getting the write answer. The teacher may keep you after class to redo the assignment you did using substation, using the equation addition method. Swimming with your head elevated is not going to meet the requirements of most swimming assignments.

 

Teacher was wrong as agreed.

If she was swimming improperly, then her GRADE should reflect that.

 

If the teacher had that mentality...that it is an academic issue, not a behavior or moral issue, perhaps he wouldn't have physically assaulted her AND put every. other. swimmer. in DANGER because he was ASSAULTING a swimmer for not getting her hair wet.

[heartosunshine]

I disagree. Perhaps a continued pattern of not doing homework " shows a lack of work ethic " but missing random assignments here and there doesn't, IMO, show a lack of work ethic.

 

Missing assignments happen. To good kids who want to do well in school. Really and truly.

 

Yes, missing assignments happen!

 

I'm in college right now because I'm changing careers. I took these classes knowing it would be tricky to get everything done ALL the time. I just turned in a late assignment fully knowing the consequences but I had to prioritize my time, something I've done throughout life and at work during my first career.

 

Never have I been labeled as having a "lack of work ethic". Never have I been humiliated by college teachers or by work supervisors for not being able to get something done. In fact, I'm often praised for being able to prioritize when needed to ultimately, get the job done.

[unsinkable]

Yes, missing assignments happen!

 

I'm in college right now because I'm changing careers. I took these classes knowing it would be tricky to get everything done ALL the time. I just turned in a late assignment fully knowing the consequences but I had to prioritize my time, something I've done throughout life and at work during my first career.

 

Never have I been labeled as having a "lack of work ethic". Never have I been humiliated by college teachers or by work supervisors for not being able to get something done. In fact, I'm often praised for being able to prioritize when needed to ultimately, get the job done.

Good luck in college!

 

I have a child who needs specific instruction in how to prioritize, and not just for school assignments. Some things that might seem logical just don't come naturally to some kids. He's getting better because now he has had a lot of practice prioritizing.

[Seasider]

Side question: am I truly the only one that sees swimming - an activity which requires being immersed in water perhaps over your head - an intimidating situation to mandate in a public school setting? To me it's inherently different than land-based exercise. It could send students into an anxiety episodes, and not just from messed up hair. Many people truly fear the water. Forcing their hand in a situation that may, as in the linked video, even lack sufficient lifeguard qualified supervision, seems rather foolish.

 

And yes I think everyone should learn to swim but this seems a not-beat way to go about it.

 

Am I truly the only one who feels this way? Did ALL the rest of you have swimming as required as PE?

[unsinkable]

Side question: am I truly the only one that sees swimming - an activity which requires being immersed in water perhaps over your head - an intimidating situation to mandate in a public school setting? To me it's inherently different than land-based exercise. It could send students into an anxiety episodes, and not just from messed up hair. Many people truly fear the water. Forcing their hand in a situation that may, as in the linked video, even lack sufficient lifeguard qualified supervision, seems rather foolish.

 

And yes I think everyone should learn to swim but this seems a not-beat way to go about it.

 

Am I truly the only one who feels this way? Did ALL the rest of you have swimming as required as PE?

No, you're not. I'm like a mermaid (the ugly Harry Potter kind, not the pretty Daryl Hannah kind) and I think forced swimming is a spectacularly bad idea.

 

I went to private school that didn't have a pool but the local HS has swimming. And as I wrote up thread people CHOOSE to fail gym bc of swimming bc they can take gym in the summer...when there is no swimming. It seems like a better solution could be found.

[snowbeltmom]

Side question: am I truly the only one that sees swimming - an activity which requires being immersed in water perhaps over your head - an intimidating situation to mandate in a public school setting? To me it's inherently different than land-based exercise. It could send students into an anxiety episodes, and not just from messed up hair. Many people truly fear the water. Forcing their hand in a situation that may, as in the linked video, even lack sufficient lifeguard qualified supervision, seems rather foolish.

 

And yes I think everyone should learn to swim but this seems a not-beat way to go about it.

 

Am I truly the only one who feels this way? Did ALL the rest of you have swimming as required as PE?

 

My high school did not have a pool, so having swimming as a part of PE was not possible. 

 

My middle child hates to swim because he usually ends up with water in his ear, which many times leads to an ear infection.  He knows how to tread water in order not to drown.  He would balk at putting his head in the water during gym class, and I would support his decision to be "disrespectful of authority".  I would also support the teacher who docked him points in the gym class for not meeting the stated requirements. 

 

 

[heartosunshine]

Good luck in college!

 

I have a child who needs specific instruction in how to prioritize, and not just for school assignments. Some things that might seem logical just don't come naturally to some kids. He's getting better because now he has had a lot of practice prioritizing.

 

Thanks! Prioritizing can be tricky, especially if you have kids like mine that want to do everything.

 

The girl in the video definitely prioritized. She tried to do the assignment to the best of her ability while preserving her hairstyle for the cheerleading competition. This may sound vain to some, but excelling at an after school activity can provide opportunities as well as fund college for someone who may not be able to go otherwise.

 

[zimom]

Swim cap?

 

I'm totally confused by this whole conversation. Don't they still have swim caps these days?

Just Fyi, I think you are the second person to ask why she did not wear a swim cap. My daughter swims with a swim cap everyday. her hair is still very wet when she removes it as is the hair of 95% of her teammates. They are not meant to keep the hair dry.

[Butter]

From the original article posted:

 

"The girl's family is being represented by Stockton attorney Gilbert Somera. He says Peterson should have punished the girl academically instead of resorting to physical force."

 

This indicates her family recognizes that her refusing to do as the teacher asked was wrong and did deserve punishment.  Just a punishment not even close to what the teacher did.

[Joanne]

Swim cap?

 

I'm totally confused by this whole conversation. Don't they still have swim caps these days?

A swim cap would be a problem. Functionally, socially, professionalism, and in the long term self esteem.

[creekland]

My high school did not have a pool, so having swimming as a part of PE was not possible. 

 

My middle child hates to swim because he usually ends up with water in his ear, which many times leads to an ear infection.  He knows how to tread water in order not to drown.  He would balk at putting his head in the water during gym class, and I would support his decision to be "disrespectful of authority".  I would also support the teacher who docked him points in the gym class for not meeting the stated requirements. 

 

PE swimming was required for 6 weeks (every other day) at the school I grew up in.

 

It is not even offered at the school I work at as we have no pool.  Our swim team practices at a local retirement home early in the morning before school.

 

However, your middle son would not have to do swimming (even where I grew up) if you provided a doctor's note affirming his health issues.  There would be no points docked.

 

Otherwise, it sounds like the lawsuit of the actual case is on the right path.

[Laurie4b]

That was assault. He is a bully in power.

 

I don't understand the need to comment on what she should have done about her hair, whether she is a spoiled brat or not, etc. Her refusal to get in the pool was a typical type of offense that teachers deal with every day. It's not the issue here, so why are people talking about HER? If he had given her a 0 or sent her to the principal, this would not be on the news.  Analyzing why she did it, deciding she is a spoiled brat, etc. is irrelevant and comes mighty close to "well it was partly her fault," and actually deflects focus from the assault.

 

When there is bullying, focus on the bully. Period. Otherwise, you contribute to damage to the victim.

 

 

[Valley Girl]

Yes, what the teacher did was wrong.  

 

I find a lot of this discussion mysterious.  In the school I attended (and I think in the boys' school) refusal to swim would have led to being sent to the head's office and being put in detention.  Continuing refusal to swim (or do maths, or clear up after lunch.....) would lead to escalating punishments and parental involvement.  My school (and I assume the boys') had procedures in place so that girls who did not use tampons could sit out discreetly.  Questions were only raised if this seemed to happen unexpectedly frequently (and could be answered by a doctor's note).  

 

I go to work outside the home.  I have to do certain tasks and dress a certain way.  That's what I signed up for.  I can't just decide that my self esteem/bodily integrity requires me (post sign up) to stop serving tea or begin wearing jeans to work.

 

Getting your hair mussed up before an event?  School is a child's work.  If the child is signed up for school, then it takes precedence over leisure activities.

 

You won't find me blaming the victim in cases of assault, and I do not think that the girl in this case should have been manhandled.  But I have no problem whatsoever with requiring people to do what they (or their parents) signed them up for.

 

L

Let me say upfront the teacher was dead wrong. He should be prosecuted. No question about that. That girl should never have been touched. I hope it's clear enough where I stand on that.

 

But I agree with Laura regarding the larger issue. We all have to do things that are inconvenient or that we don't want to do as part of meeting our obligations. And whether the girl "chose" swimming or not, if getting your head under water is part of the requirement for the class, barring very limited circumstances, I don't see how students have grounds to refuse to do so. We're not talking about something illegal or immoral or offensive--things that appropriately should be refused.

 

When I was in school, swimming (unless some type of disability existed) was REQUIRED as part of P.E., which was required for graduation. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. (Whether or not that was fair or reasonable might be a different thread since requirements can vary from place to place.)

 

I despised P.E., especially swimming. Few people liked it. You had to get dressed for class, get in the water, get your head wet (swim caps were allowed), and participate to the best of your ability. Even in winter (some building were unattached so you had to go outside). Even if you had a presentation later or a cheerleading competition or a formal event or your hair was difficult to fix up ... or... or...

 

We made it through and met the requirement and graduated.

 

Our teachers attempted to teach swimming to beginners like me as well as those who were proficient. You could be excused during the appropriate time of the month or for medical reasons, but otherwise you were expected to be in the water engaged in appropriate activity.

 

If the girl refused to participate to the required level then her grade should have been docked and, if it was an ongoing problem, the proper administrative action taken. But I can't imagine telling a kid that he or she doesn't have to participate just because it's inconvenient, which is what I'm hearing in some comments on this thread.

 

 

[Mimm]

1. if she's not participating be honest and upfront. Just don't dress out.

 

2. If her parents don't think she should have to participate then they should enroll her elsewhere. Since she is enrolled, they have agreed by enrolling her that she should do the assignments given to her in each of her classes. If there's a problem with the assignments, they should provide the appropriate documentation to get her out of said assignments.

 

 

1. So the teacher can throw her into the pool fully clothed? The guy is a lunatic. Don't tell me he wouldn't have done that.

 

2. Her parents may have enrolled her there and may desire her to swim but she may not have made this choice. Let's be clear here. We're not talking about her wanting to do anything that would have been dangerous or harmful to anyone. You keep going on about how it would be disruptive to the class which makes me wonder if you've ever been in a gym class. Kids go sit on the sidelines or bleachers of a gym class all the time when they are hurt or sick or unable to participate and somehow, life goes on.

 

 

I can't help wondering if all the people who claim they would never ask their child to do a school assignment they didn't want to do have the same standards for homeschooling.  If you ask your child to do, say, a math assignment, is it okay for your child to tell you no?  Or is it only OTHER authority figures they don't have to listen to?

 

I think the PE teacher was 100% wrong and should be prosecuted, btw.  But I'm also fascinated at how many people wouldn't have a problem with (and really, in some cases even encourage) their children not doing the things expected of them in a public school.  

 

In my house, it would be a discussion, because I actually care about what my children think about things. Sitting down and doing a math assignment they don't want to do is somewhat different than swimming when one doesn't want to. But there have been times my children didn't want to do something they were assigned. We discussed it. If they had good reasons, such as already knowing the material very well, then the assignment was skipped. If their reasons were not good, they were asked to get over it and do it anyway. If they had still refused there would have been appropriate consequences that did not involve physically assaulting them. 

 

 

 

[hornblower]

I'm stunned how ill prepared these kids are for protest.

 

She was pretty good but the others?

-Try to make a protective circle around the protester

-don't grab legs if the cop is pulling arms

-Doggie pile on the person and link arms instead. A wall of arm linked people is much more solid.

 

Bystanders, don't yell or scream; singing or chanting is much more effective. "No, no, she won't go!" "Hands Off!"

 

Once the judge has signed the injunction, don't resist actively. You can be limp but you can also just walk off with the cops. If you're chained to something, make it easy for the person with bolt cutters to free you.

 

Do we teach kids nothing these days??

[hornblower]

Oh, and I'm not sure why she bothered coming to class at all. in my high school, the norm would be to just not show up and take an absence.

 

Unless she thought she could just do deck exercises. That would have been a reasonable compromise.

[snowbeltmom]

My districts' high school has procedures for the student to follow. If a student does not want to participate in class, they report to an A.P.s office. If they choose to remain and they disrupt, security is called by the teacher or a bystander and they are escorted out. Involuntarily if they dont cooperate.

 

The taxpayers here are not happy with disruptors. They have successfully lobbied for no summer school enrollment for truants or those nonclassified students who attend but refuse to participate in classes. They want repeaters to pay for repeating gym class and a few other easy classes like health.

This girl did participate in the class -she put on her swimsuit and got in the pool and swam the required laps.  I don't understand how she disrupted the class simply because she did not put her head in the water.  How is that disruptive to the other swimmers? 

 

 

 

 

[goldberry]

I totally get the bad hair thing.  I would not have "gotten" it previously....now I have a curly-girl!

 

That said, my curly-girl would have cleared with me beforehand that she wanted to skip swimming, resulting in me either writing a note or calling the school. My DD would have known she had to have MY permission which I would have communicated to the teacher.   I don't think it makes the girl in question automatically a "bratty kid" though.  

 

ETA, if the school then disagreed with my permission for her to skip gym, I probably would have just kept her home. If THAT would have been a problem...well, there's a reason why a homeschool. ;)

 

[creekland]

Oh, and I'm not sure why she bothered coming to class at all. in my high school, the norm would be to just not show up and take an absence.

 

Unless she thought she could just do deck exercises. That would have been a reasonable compromise.

 

In our school if she hadn't shown up for school or class she'd have been banned from the after school competition.  I doubt that's much different elsewhere.

 

And no, we don't teach kids how to protest.  It never occurred to me that we should.  We already need to squeeze in academics, social skills, and other life skills (such as budgeting, buying houses and insurance, etc), do we really need to add protesting?

[snowbeltmom]

I totally get the bad hair thing.  I would not have "gotten" it previously....now I have a curly-girl!

 

That said, my curly-girl would have cleared with me beforehand that she wanted to skip swimming, resulting in me either writing a note or calling the school. My DD would have known she had to have MY permission which I would have communicated to the teacher.   I don't think it makes the girl in question automatically a "bratty kid" though.  

 

But, I would bet that the girl didn't think that she had to get permission to skip swimming since she did get in the pool and swim the required laps. 

 

I doubt the girl realized at the time that the teacher would be such a control freak and make an issue out of her not putting her head under the water.