(Controversial content) a letter to girls in the pew in front of us...

[Desert Strawberry]

I notice that her wedding dress has a fitted waist, and she is dangerously close to showing her shoulders.

 

And a fitted bust. Mercy. 

 

In her picture with Mr. M, she is wearing a v-neck t shirt. I thought those were forboden? It is hard to keep up with the modesty rules these days. 

[MFG]

And a fitted bust. Mercy.

 

In her picture with Mr. M, she is wearing a v-neck t shirt. I thought those were forboden? It is hard to keep up with the modesty rules these days.

And did you see the hand-on-the-hip-sticking-her-chest-out? Oh My!

I think the v-neck t-shirt is ok because she is wearing that big necklace and that makes it "trendy but discreet".

[Desert Strawberry]

Well, she did admit to wearing yoga pants in public. Clearly she's a tramp. She might as well ride the pole as go out in those, waggling her butt all over the mall behind her oh-so-sexy double stroller. 

[Shahrazad]

I don't understand how this gorgeous wedding dress: http://phyliciadelta.com/that-day-i-wore-white-our-wedding/ is less sexy than sloppy 'new mom who can't be bothered to change' yoga pants? Who makes these invisible "modesty" rules because they sure aren't consistent?

[LucyStoner]

What the heck?!? I can't believe anyone said this with a straight face:

 

"I like those pants. I like them because not only are they comfortable – as all yoga pants are – but I look trendy. I look like one of those suburban moms with a ponytail, pushing her children through the market in a twin-seat stroller. And I like that look, regardless of the consequences."

 

Wait a minute! The new object of lustful thoughts is some mom of toddlers who didn't have time to wash her hair or energy to choose something other than the daytime pajamas??? This is so many shades of crazy!

I suddenly feel all trendy like with my ponytail and gray exercise pants.

[DawnM]

Ewwww.......so a "thank you girls for not making my son sexually lust after you and for attracting him to come back at the same time.  you girls are awesome!"

 

I think I need a shower.

 

 

Well, this is disgusting, but I got the impression that it was her son with all the praying she had been doing for him. I gathered that he wouldn't usually go, but was doing it for her this one time.

 

[LucyStoner]

Well, this is disgusting, but I got the impression that it was her son with all the praying she had been doing for him. I gathered that he wouldn't usually go, but was doing it for her this one time.

I don't think it is her son. She's seems a little too young and too recently married to have a son old enough be called a young man or scamming on girls.

[kitten18]

I don't understand how this gorgeous wedding dress: http://phyliciadelta.com/that-day-i-wore-white-our-wedding/ is less sexy than sloppy 'new mom who can't be bothered to change' yoga pants? Who makes these invisible "modesty" rules because they sure aren't consistent?

Oh, it's mermaid style, fitted completely through the hips (would be like wearing a pencil skirt) and it's definitely off the shoulders

[kitten18]

I don't think it is her son. She's seems a little too young and too recently married to have a son old enough be called a young man or scamming on girls.

I agree. The wedding pictures look too recent for her to have a teenager.

[regentrude]

Hm.. I guess it's OK for the man to come to church because of the girls. Which requires the girls to be sufficiently pretty and thin and have nice makeup. But not pretty enough so he actually notices them, and they are responsible for their dress as to not disturb him because he can not control himself otherwise? And being a true Christian is reflected in the dress? And what if somebody is distracting another person because they are ugly?

 

There is so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to start.

[Guest]

I don't think she meant it the way some of you are taking it.  I think she is applauding the women for caring more about their relationship with God than their appearance.  It's a choice to dress modestly, so I think she was just trying to be encouraging.

[MFG]

She was married February 1, 2014. If she has a teenage son there must be an interesting backstory.

http://phyliciadelta.com/meet-mr-m/

[T'smom]

I don't think it is her son. She's seems a little too young and too recently married to have a son old enough be called a young man or scamming on girls.

That's true. I hadn't read beyond the first post when I thought that. She said that she had been praying for him for months and he was in the row behind the girls and so was she. That it was a miracle that he was there. So she must have some relationship with him.

[Desert Strawberry]

What? She's a newlywed? She writes about marriage like she's been doing it for a good while.

 

I can't imagine giving marriage advice in my first year. Or even blogging in general. My goodness. I had enough trouble just trying to figure out how to BE a wife, let alone a good one. 

 

I see she gives parenting advice, even though she's not a mother. Huh. I guess you don't need to have experienced something to have all the answers about it. 

[regentrude]

I don't think she meant it the way some of you were saying.  I think she is applauding the women for caring more about their relationship with God than their appearance.  It's a choice to dress modestly, so I think she was just trying to be encouraging.

 

The girls most definitely cared about their appearance, because the letter specifically mentions:

 

Beautiful, actually: tall, thin, with good hair, nicely styled. Your makeup is perfect, e

 

How an observer judges whether they care "more about their relationship with God than their appearance" is very subjective. The writer happened to approve of whatever they were wearing. Another person's threshold might be such as to condemn makeup as unfitting vanity in church. Yet different religious persuasions might demand covered hair  - or head-to-toe coverings of the entire female form.

 

The point is that an outsider is judging them based on their outward appearance and her own personal standards, and is holding them responsible for a third person's behavior.

 

(And let's not even get started on equating beauty with being tall and thin)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I fell for it again. Failed to investigate the author.

 

I've been trying to ignore twenty-somethings who know everything on the internet but it only works if I remember to check for age instead of just reading for content and style. I'm new to sweeping generalization and bias (e.g."twenty-somethings who know everything on the internet should be ignored") but I'll get the hang of it.

[Shahrazad]

Hm.. I guess it's OK for the man to come to church because of the girls. Which requires the girls to be sufficiently pretty and thin and have nice makeup. But not pretty enough so he actually notices them, and they are responsible for their dress as to not disturb him because he can not control himself otherwise? And being a true Christian is reflected in the dress? And what if somebody is distracting another person because they are ugly?

 

There is so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to start.

Uggos shouldn't come to church, duh.

 

 

What? She's a newlywed? She writes about marriage like she's been doing it for a good while.

 

I can't imagine giving marriage advice in my first year. Or even blogging in general. My goodness. I had enough trouble just trying to figure out how to BE a wife, let alone a good one. 

 

I see she gives parenting advice, even though she's not a mother. Huh. I guess you don't need to have experienced something to have all the answers about it. 

Really, she's been married for like 6 months?! Clearly, she's got marriage all figured out. I remember how much I knew about marriage 6 months in during the honeymoon stage.

[marbel]

That's true. I hadn't read beyond the first post when I thought that. She said that she had been praying for him for months and he was in the row behind the girls and so was she. That it was a miracle that he was there. So she must have some relationship with him.

 

She may have considered him "family" as in "church family."  There are people in my church for whom I have prayed for years though they are not related to me. People have shared struggles with me even though I am not their mother, sister, or any other relation.  It's not at all unusual that it's not necessarily her own son.

[wintermom]

None of us know what another person is thinking. The author may guess what the young man was thinking, but was probably wrong. If the author was happy that the young girls were at church and looked and acted as expected, then I guess that's good for her. How on earth can one know what another person is "reflecting" on their face - it's just her own thoughts.  She was happy and felt strongly enough to write about it. I can't read more into her article because I don't know what her expectations were and when she was specifically happy about. I would just be guessing.

[LucyStoner]

She was married February 1, 2014. If she has a teenage son there must be an interesting backstory.

http://phyliciadelta.com/meet-mr-m/

Especially because she says on her blog that she "will be coming up on 24" when she gets (got) married in 30 days.

 

I am guessing maybe a male relative or friend she considers wayward?

 

She doesn't seem to have children yet. Heaven knows that when she does, her blog will be plastered with the news.

 

That explains the trendy suburban mom in yoga pants and a ponytail thing- it's aspirational. She sees motherhood and the resulting fashion shortcuts as a goal and as attractive *because* she is not there yet. Which is fine. But maybe having some kids will diversify her blog and expand her experience and depth.

[Mrs Mungo]

That's true. I hadn't read beyond the first post when I thought that. She said that she had been praying for him for months and he was in the row behind the girls and so was she. That it was a miracle that he was there. So she must have some relationship with him.

 

Maybe her brother? Sounds more like that.

 

The point is that an outsider is judging them based on their outward appearance and her own personal standards, and is holding them responsible for a third person's behavior.

 

Agreed.

 

Really, she's been married for like 6 months?! Clearly, she's got marriage all figured out. I remember how much I knew about marriage 6 months in during the honeymoon stage.

Yeah.

[myfunnybunch]

I see she gives parenting advice, even though she's not a mother. Huh. I guess you don't need to have experienced something to have all the answers about it. 

 

Heck, that was when I had the most answers about parenting.

 

Before I had children I knew it all, then a nurse handed me an actual  real live tiny person to take home and care for. Eeek!

 

Cat

[myfunnybunch]

 maybe a male relative or friend

 

Gosh, I hope not. Putting myself in his shoes, I'd hate to think that someone I considered a friend or loved one could think of me that way.

 

One of the ickiest parts of the whole thing was her attitude toward the young man, in her assumption that the young man had come to church for the girls ('cause that's the first place we all think of when it comes to picking up the ladies, right?) and this line:

 

Thank you for preserving your beauty for better eyes than the ones behind you today.

 

That just breaks my heart for the judgment cast upon the young man who made his way to the church that day for whatever reason, and for the heart of the person judging him as somehow less worthy. And I do understand what she intends to say about modesty with that statement, though I don't agree with her premise in the first place. And it could have been said just as clearly without casting any judgment on, or even mention of, the young man or his eyes.

 

Cat

[Shahrazad]

I was a parenting expert before having kids too. It isn't till you have kids that you realize you don't know what the heck you're doing.

[Above The Rowan]

I find her judgment of the young man to be the saddest part here.

 

Overall I just came away with this feeling that she is projecting her own baggage onto not just the young girls but the young man as well. How could she POSSIBLY know what anyone's motives are, or what is in the hearts of any other person?!

 

She should perhaps turn her reflection and judgment to herself and quit spending her Sunday mornings ruminating over the lives and hearts of others.

[Shahrazad]

Was she able to hear the sermon over her own self-righteousness and judgment?

Sorry, that was mean. She could be a perfectly nice lady who just failed at expressing herself.

[catz]

Aren't newlyweds and first time parents who know everything adorable!?  I just want to pinch their wittle cheeks.  :ack2:

 

I think maybe she spent a little more time thinking about why she was at church and less about the goings on around her.  Judgmental and OCD much?  I can't imagine going to church with this mindset.  Or even walking down the street. 

[Arctic Bunny]

 

 

I don't understand how this gorgeous wedding dress: http://phyliciadelta.com/that-day-i-wore-white-our-wedding/ is less sexy than sloppy 'new mom who can't be bothered to change' yoga pants? Who makes these invisible "modesty" rules because they sure aren't consistent?

Sigh. I want to make money (I assume?) writing biased and unfounded opinions of which I have no personal experience! Did any one read Mr. M's bit during the ceremony?

 

"You and I both know that when we first met, we weren’t each others’ ‘type’ when it came to looks. But, as I saw your godly desire and the beauty of your heart shining from the inside out, I began to see you transformed into the woman I always dreamed of marrying. The woman my heart sought to spend my future with was one of Proverbs 31 character. And as this transformation occurred, I saw the attributes of a virtuous woman come out of the woodwork."

 

I would be over the moon if my groom told everyone at our ceremony that he didn't even think I was attractive when he met me. And that when he first heard about me, I was just a loud laugh overheard from a friend's phone.

[Catwoman]

I read a few of her other blog posts, and the message I got was loud and clear, and it wasn't, "I'm a good Christian."

 

The message I got was that she is incredibly full of herself. She describes herself as sassy and confident. I'm thinking more along the lines of arrogant know-it-all dispensing a maximum amount of advice with a minimum amount of experience.

 

But maybe that's just me.

 

I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt when I read the post Joanne linked in her OP, but the more I read, the less I liked her.

[marbel]

I find her judgment of the young man to be the saddest part here.

 

Overall I just came away with this feeling that she is projecting her own baggage onto not just the young girls but the young man as well. How could she POSSIBLY know what anyone's motives are, or what is in the hearts of any other person?!

 

She should perhaps turn her reflection and judgment to herself and quit spending her Sunday mornings ruminating over the lives and hearts of others.

 

She said she has been praying for him for months. That would indicate she knows him, perhaps quite well. 

 

I'm not really into what she wrote but she may very well know what the young man's motives are.   For all any of us know, he has shared some struggles with her and has asked her to pray for him.  That is not a crazy idea.  I am way older than her and probably more of a mother figure than she would be, but young men have shared struggles with me and asked me to pray for them.  And I have, and do.   And so I do have some idea of motives and what's in their hearts, because they've told me.   It's not necessarily some wacked-out idea.  

 

 

[rocassie]

My BIL once complained about all the college girls at church that dress way to provocatively and it really distracts him.  I told him, "sit in the front pew then."  He laughed and said, "but then I only have the ugly, old priest to look at."  Hmm, me thinks, the girls aren't the problem.

[Catwoman]

And a fitted bust. Mercy.

 

In her picture with Mr. M, she is wearing a v-neck t shirt. I thought those were forboden? It is hard to keep up with the modesty rules these days.

And she's wearing SHORTS in other photos.

 

Tramp. ;)

[Shahrazad]

Sigh. I want to make money (I assume?) writing biased and unfounded opinions of which I have no personal experience! Did any one read Mr. M's bit during the ceremony?

 

"You and I both know that when we first met, we weren’t each others’ ‘type’ when it came to looks. But, as I saw your godly desire and the beauty of your heart shining from the inside out, I began to see you transformed into the woman I always dreamed of marrying. The woman my heart sought to spend my future with was one of Proverbs 31 character. And as this transformation occurred, I saw the attributes of a virtuous woman come out of the woodwork."

 

I would be over the moon if my groom told everyone at our ceremony that he didn't even think I was attractive when he met me. And that when he first heard about me, I was just a loud laugh overheard from a friend's phone.

Made even more comical by the fact that she's an 8 and he's a 6 (at best). Delusional much?

 

Maybe she isn't tall enough or thin enough.

[Mrs Mungo]

Sigh. I want to make money (I assume?) writing biased and unfounded opinions

Honestly between her and he-who-shall-not-be-named-but-whose-blog-posts-are-constantly-linked-here? I think it is *strictly* about page views. Being controversial gets eyes on your page. That's all advertisers and/or publishers offering deals to bloggers care about, I guess.

[catz]

And she's wearing SHORTS in other photos.

 

Tramp. ;)

 

Shorts and V-necks are ok, and yoga pants are forbidden?!  Perfectly applied makeup is good.  Mermaid, off the shoulder wedding dresses are ok, but otherwise waist skimming outfits are not appropriate in church. 

 

Wow - I'm so confused!  I might need a diagram or something!  :lol:

[Catwoman]

Shorts and V-necks are ok, and yoga pants are forbidden?! Perfectly applied makeup is good. Mermaid, off the shoulder wedding dresses are ok, but otherwise waist skimming outfits are not appropriate in church.

 

Wow - I'm so confused! I might need a diagram or something! :lol:

Sigh. I want to make money (I assume?) writing biased and unfounded opinions of which I have no personal experience! Did any one read Mr. M's bit during the ceremony?

"You and I both know that when we first met, we weren’t each others’ ‘type’ when it came to looks. But, as I saw your godly desire and the beauty of your heart shining from the inside out, I began to see you transformed into the woman I always dreamed of marrying. The woman my heart sought to spend my future with was one of Proverbs 31 character. And as this transformation occurred, I saw the attributes of a virtuous woman come out of the woodwork."

I would be over the moon if my groom told everyone at our ceremony that he didn't even think I was attractive when he met me. And that when he first heard about me, I was just a loud laugh overheard from a friend's phone.

Made even more comical by the fact that she's an 8 and he's a 6 (at best). Delusional much?

Maybe she isn't tall enough or thin enough.

Maybe her wonderful "Mr M" is also "the pervy guy at church" and she's sick and tired of him drooling over all of the teenaged girls. :D

[Denise in Florida]

The girls most definitely cared about their appearance, because the letter specifically mentions:

 

 

How an observer judges whether they care "more about their relationship with God than their appearance" is very subjective. The writer happened to approve of whatever they were wearing. Another person's threshold might be such as to condemn makeup as unfitting vanity in church. Yet different religious persuasions might demand covered hair  - or head-to-toe coverings of the entire female form.

 

The point is that an outsider is judging them based on their outward appearance and her own personal standards, and is holding them responsible for a third person's behavior.

 

(And let's not even get started on equating beauty with being tall and thin)

 

That is it exactly. Thank you for the concise explanation. 

I did not like thank you post but could not express it as clearly as you did. 

[Arctic Bunny]

Maybe we are all raising our sons to realize that their mothers are The Perfect Woman. Therefore, when they see a woman walking down the street in yoga pants and a pony tail, they think she might make the Perfect Wife. No? Jumping to too many conclusions?

[Guest]

Maybe her wonderful "Mr M" is also "the pervy guy at church" and she's sick and tired of him drooling over all of the teenaged girls. :D

 

I was a little confused when I saw her wedding dress (off the shoulder after saying yoga pants are immodest), which in turn made me wonder if that was her issue  ??  If yoga pants aren't okay, neither was her form-fitting wedding dress.  

[Shahrazad]

http://phyliciadelta.com/five-countercultural-ways-women-can-guarantee-respect/

[marbel]

Honestly between her and he-who-shall-not-be-named-but-whose-blog-posts-are-constantly-linked-here? I think it is *strictly* about page views. Being controversial gets eyes on your page. That's all advertisers and/or publishers offering deals to bloggers care about, I guess.

 

LOL, true and she's certainly getting page views today! 

 

[Arctic Bunny]

Honestly between her and he-who-shall-not-be-named-but-whose-blog-posts-are-constantly-linked-here? I think it is *strictly* about page views. Being controversial gets eyes on your page. That's all advertisers and/or publishers offering deals to bloggers care about, I guess.

Oh dear. I haven't been here long enough to know who Voldemort is. I shall have to go sleuthing.

[MFG]

Especially because she says on her blog that she "will be coming up on 24" when she gets (got) married in 30 days.

 

Wow. Good find. I snicker a little to read that she has been writing on certain topics for "years". Two counts as "years", right?

[Guest]

http://phyliciadelta.com/five-countercultural-ways-women-can-guarantee-respect/

 

She complains about people not getting her point, but she ruins it herself.  She may have a point, but her conceitedness completely ruins it for me (even though I agree with modesty)!

 

Example:

 

1. Dress in a way that emphasizes, not distracts from, who you are as a person.

I’ll never forget my summer working in a diner. You learn a lot, and quickly.  I remember how our regular customers talked to Nikki when she went to their table with her chest spilling out of her shirt. I overheard the comments between blue collar workers when she walked away – discussing her like she was a calendar photo, and just as disposable. They’d mention ‘the black haired girl’ when they came in.

But they knew my name.

 

That's annoying, and made me just skim the rest.

[brehon]

I just had a terrible thought, that I may have been tempting all my tutoring students into sin by dressing like a mother. No wonder they are having trouble with their Hamlet essays.

 

I want to know what judgy lady thinks about the girls who aren't pretty. Does she think they should have their own area for worship up in the loft, given that they have limited man saving powers, by virtue of not being pretty enough to recruit ?

 

And I also want to know why people are thinking this stuff in church ? You're supposed to be thinking about GOD.

Well, sheesh....bring God into it, why donja....

 

 

;)

[Forget-Me-Not]

Did anyone else catch the next little gem in the lineup is titled: "When Pure Girls Marry: Countering the Christian Fear of Sex"?

[Guest]

Did anyone else catch the next little gem in the lineup is titled: "When Pure Girls Marry: Countering the Christian Fear of Sex"?

 

Link?

[Catwoman]

http://phyliciadelta.com/five-countercultural-ways-women-can-guarantee-respect/

Gosh, she's just so PERFECT!!! :rolleyes:

[Catwoman]

Did anyone else catch the next little gem in the lineup is titled: "When Pure Girls Marry: Countering the Christian Fear of Sex"?

I'm almost afraid to look. :eek:

[Shahrazad]

I'd like to let her know that I literally wear a burqa and it still doesn't exempt you from disrespect. Seriously, some people really are perverts. Even when I went to school and didn't cover my face but wore a headscarf and an abaya (long, loose dress), I heard someone discussing my appearance (in the context of being 'attractive) as he and another guy walked behind me. Teaching men to respect women regardless of what they're wearing would be far more productive.