It costs my library $2 / book when I reserve one through inter-library loan!

[Stacey in MA]

I just found out that it costs our library $2 a pop when I reserve a book through our interlibrary loan system! Wow! I had no idea! A lady at my church works at our library, and we chat from time to time. She doesn't personally have a problem with me/us using the library as we do. She says she thinks it's great the way we use it, and that that is one of the best reasons to be using it so fully - to educate the children.

 

But I guess there are a couple of grouchy old ladies there who she works with who get frustrated with we library patrons who take out so many books at one time! I do indeed order a LOT! I have 3 little kids who read TONS of books. Often they are on the short side (so there are more of them!). I try to keep up with the history chapters and science work we are doing, as well as literature related to our time period, and just plain FUN stuff too! So that means 6-8 books or more a week for each kid perhaps! (Are you telling me it costs them $50 a week for my family? That just doesn't sound right....) And you never know what will arrive on time or not, so sometimes a whole bunch end up there for you when you didn't think there'd be so many! And sometimes - nothin'. Also, sometimes it's hard to tell what a book is going to be like, if it's a match for the work your child is doing. In that case, I usually just go ahead and order it to check it over, keeping it if it looks OK and sending it back on it's way if it's a dud.

 

I DO physically go in to get many books as well. I require the kids to go with a list I compile and find about 6 - 8 books on the shelves. (I want them to know how to do it). I TRY to get the books off the shelf if they are at MY library, and only reserve the ones that come from other libraries, but this isn't a steadfast rule. Sometimes it is convenient to just put it on hold, even if it IS at my library! (I guess this is one of the old lady's problems with we trouble-customers! "Why can't they just come in and get the books off the shelf themselves if they live in town! Lazy!" Ah well....)

 

Anyway, I am slightly irked that they have a problem with people taking lots of books out, and specifically reserving them through the loan system. BUT, if they are so concerned, then why don't they post rules about it on their web site? They should inform people that it costs the library $2 a book. Maybe they should make rules about how many can be on reserve at once? I don't know, but I hate it when someone is complaining about me behind my back. Especially when I don't even know them! And especially when I'm not breaking any real rules - written or implied. Sure does make me feel on the outside of the world looking in sometimes....

 

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there. Maybe some of you didn't consider the cost before? I know I hadn't, but now will likely be more careful about what/how many I order. I also may need to consider upping our annual library donation - ha!

 

Happy reading to all!

- Stacey in MA

[Tree House Academy]

I am not sure I am understanding you correctly. The woman said that it cost the library $2 if you reserve a book and get it through interlibrary loan? BAh. That sounds like a load of hooey. Sorry, but interlibrary loan is something that will run whether you have a book there or not. I mean, our library is a small town one with a very limited selection, but they can get about anything from surrounding libraries. They also send out books each week. A courier comes on Friday and delivers/picks up the books. It costs NOTHING in my area. The courier comes whether I have a book there or not.

 

I think that woman was irritated with having to "process" your large order...but I think she might be mistaken in her "facts." Don't sweat it one bit! That is what the library is there for!

[abbeyej]

Aren't you talking about two different things? Reserving a book that your own library system has on hand (whether in your branch or not) is not "inter-library loan".

 

Was there perhaps a miscommunication there? One thing is merely mildly inconvenient for the librarians (though it's why they're there!), but the other does indeed cost the library (when they borrow books from other systems).

[stripe]

Library employees who wish community members would use the library less are, in my opinion, praying for a pink slip.

 

Of course anything anyone does costs money, and the library is not "free" because it is paid for by the community, just not as a subscription or per-use type of thing. If there are no rules or restrictions in place, use it as you feel you must. If the library feels this is a problem or a financial burden, then they can set boundaries. Libraries have established interlibrary loan for a reason. There is a discussion of homeschoolers' high use of ILL in a book published by the American Library Association by Susan G. Scheps called "The Librarian's Guide to Homeschooling Resources," so your library's employees are not the first ones to make this observation.

 

I have often seen lazy sorts of people who complain whenever they have work to do. But I don't think that is a reason to set policy to prevent anyone from checking out books (which of course causes work for the people who check them in and out, and those who put them back on the shelf).

 

I wouldn't concern yourself with what people are saying, but I wouldn't personally use interlibrary loan just because a book I wanted was checked out. I would just put in a request for it.

[kbpaulie]

I have 90 books currently check out, 18 on hold at the library, plus my sons card. These are, however, all from our very large library system. I feel bad when I'm checking these all out. But the branch managers even encourage me to check out more. Turns out they are in competition with the other branches to be the busiest.

 

However, 2 years ago our system instituted a $5 fee for each interlibrary loan. I'm sure it costs them something. Even if it's only shipping fees. Some of these books come quite a distance. So, for us, it's only our library. However, if your library doesn't limit anything, I would use this resource as much as possible. If you're still not comoratable, talk to your branch manager and ask their policy.

 

Good luck and happy reading.

 

KB

[Colleen in NS]

and that that is one of the best reasons to be using it so fully - to educate the children.

 

Sometimes it is convenient to just put it on hold, even if it IS at my library! (I guess this is one of the old lady's problems with we trouble-customers! "Why can't they just come in and get the books off the shelf themselves if they live in town! Lazy!" Ah well....)

 

I have no idea if it costs my library system for me to order books from the various branches in our region. But I sure am thankful for the system that allows me to do so, and I'd be frustrated to hear those comments!! It's what the system is for - to educate ourselves and our families!!!!!!! Here, it's what we pay taxes for, and I'm taking full advantage (just got off the library website and ordered about 80 or so books......my kids have been book deprived for a few weeks.....:D). It's not laziness - it's using technology to save time - I can't go running around to all the libraries here to pull books off the shelves myself. I also pay taxes to support the local school system, which I don't use. So I have no problem using the library system that my other taxes pay for.

[Stacey in MA]

So I actually have to look carefully to see if a certain book is coming from our library or from somewhere else. The ones that end up being from my library put on hold are obviously processed by our local library ladies (and yes, they're complaining). And the ones that come from other libraries come on the truck.

 

So this church/library friend said that it averages out to $2 per book when someone puts a book on hold. I guess they compile that data on all the books put on hold - within our library and outside of, since the holding system is all the same. I mean, I can imagine it costs them SOMETHING, but that amount just seems so high. I suppose they wouldn't have to hire so many people, drive so many routes, etc., if fewer books were being held, and therefore the cost per book would go down. But still...

 

And FWIW, this woman works directly with processing the library book holds, and is what I consider pretty reliable in her knowledge. I don't think she'd exaggerate. If anything, she'd try to swing it the other way.

 

Anyway, the idea of it costing the library so much bothers me. But still, you're right - we need it, that's what it's there for, so why not? Ah well....

 

Just me being sensitive I guess! :-)

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

Well, my town has just one library. Although it has a great kids' section, I still do request some things through ILL. I pay $3 per item (up from $2 just last year) and I'm fine with that because there is postage to be paid. I've received items from AZ, OK, AR, and MN in just the past few weeks. Obviously, however, I am careful about what I order due to the price. I could get a lot of stuff in paperback at the 4/3 sale at Amazon and pay a bit more to own it, you know? Most of what I get is audio books though, and you just can't beat $3 for the access to those. I'm also thinking of getting that Liping Ma math book through ILL because it is so stinking expensive, making $3 seem cheap.

 

However, I can't imagine there would be a fee if my city had seven libraries and the loan was from one of those to my branch. Some people only have ILL through their own system and some, like mine, can apparently get something from anywhere in the country. The latter is worth paying for, I think.

 

I have had some grouchiness in the past with how many books we check out. I just smile from ear to ear and chat to them about how happy they must be to have book lovers come in and really using the great resource they're providing. They will not make me feel guilty for using the most underutilized resource any city has! :001_smile:

[Colleen in NS]

Anyway, the idea of it costing the library so much bothers me.

 

Do you pay property taxes, part of which go to support the library system? If so, I wouldn't sweat it at all. It's their problem if they don't like processing your books. It's the system that's available for your use. And actually, even if you don't pay property taxes, I still wouldn't sweat it - you probably help the local economy in other ways, too!

[Stacey in MA]

I temporarily forgot about the fact that our taxes go toward paying for the local schools which we are NOT allowed to use the resources of, so there is an imbalance there that gets balanced out a bit in our use of the library.

 

Yes, thanks all for the reassurance. You'd think that library people would WANT us to be there, eagarly, educating, reading, using their services! Ay, ay, ay...

 

:-)

[Colleen in NS]

This thread is funny - look how fast the responses poured in! We homeschoolers are touchy and fiercely defensive about our library use! Books rock! :lol:

[SonshineLearner]

When I checked out a ton of books during Christmas, the library was VERY grouchy about it. One of the librarians made a point of saying "Hi Carrie" when I came in...just to point out that she knew it...because of how many times she had placed books on the shelf for me.(up front, for when I order them from another branch) Oh well, it did dissuade me from ordering for a ...couple of weeks...now I just try to pace myself...But, come next school year, I'll be doing it again. That is, until they start charging per book...Then, maybe not..and I'll buy from one of the used places...

Carrie

[gardening momma]

So I actually have to look carefully to see if a certain book is coming from our library or from somewhere else. The ones that end up being from my library put on hold are obviously processed by our local library ladies (and yes, they're complaining). And the ones that come from other libraries come on the truck.

Just to make sure I understand you...you have one library in your system, and any other books come from libraries outside your system (inter-library loan)?

 

Think of all the late fees they collect...obviously that will cover much of their costs in various areas.

 

We have 3 libraries here, and our online request system will show which library/libraries have the book, and when I request it, it most likely will come from the closest one to where I say I want to pick it up. There is a separate request system on the library's site where I can request books from other libraries in the state of Ohio, but they ask that you look carefully at their site first to make sure they don't have the book. I only rarely use the interlibary loan, as I can't renew those.

[KidsHappen]

There is indeed a difference between a book put on hold in your own library system, even if it is coming from a different branch and interlibrary loans that come from libraries that are outside of your system.

 

For instance, I belong to the Nashville Public Library. They have at least ten different branches. I can put a hold on any book in their system and have it delivered to any one of the branches. There are trucks that drive between the different branches everyday delivering these books and returning books that have been returned to the wrong branch to their branch of origin. While this does indeed cost some money, it is considered the cost of doing business and is figured into the annual opporating budget of the library. Our library does have a limit of 25 holds per card at any given time but I don't think that this has anything to do with cost.

 

Now a book coming through interlibrary loan from a different library is usually mailed and there for has additional cost. I believe our library has a limit of 5 of these per time.

 

These are two different issues. I have never heard of a library complaining about holds. In our library, you get them off the shelf and use self checkout. You don't even have to deal with a person. The only reason I could imagine them complaining about inter-library loans is because they usually have a seperate employee that does these so there is that added cost plus the costs of shipping the items to and fro. In any case, either or both of these are allowed, you can be sure that they are considering the cost and would not allow it to continue if the cost was prohibitive. SO don't worry about it.

[erica471]

I've worked at libraries for a good portion of my adult life. In system library "holds" or "requests" probably cost about that much. True ILLs (Interlibrary Loans), as in books are actually ordered from a completely different library systems cost much more than that. I've heard estimates of about $20.

You shouldn't feel at all guilty about placing holds. At my library we LOVE holds because it helps our circulation stats which helps our library staffing needs. Often we you walk by the hold shelf you'll see rows of books for the same family or customers. It sounds like maybe a couple of people at your library are a little grumpy. :D

Another thing I want to add is that by checking out so many books you are also increasing the chance of that book staying on the shelf. We weed 1-2x a year and if a books isn't being checked out often enough we have to get rid of it. We look at it as a book having to earn its place to stay on the shelf.

Don't feel guilty! Libraries are there to be used, alot.

 

:D

[ElizabethB]

I can see how it would cost $2 to order from another library system.

 

Ordering from within your library system should be a sunk cost--about the same no matter how many books you order, they are driving around vans full of books. At some point, it would tip over into more trips/vans if everyone went crazy, however!

 

They should actually publicize the cost so people can be aware of it and not order things willy-nilly not realizing the additional cost.

 

The local librarians all know me. Right after my husband got home from a 4 month deployment, I went to the library, they asked "Where are your children?"

 

We get charged $2 for a book you reserve but don't pick up fast enough, the system sometimes e-mails you when it comes in, sometimes not. I've paid a few $2 fines. The last one, I knew had come in, but just misjudged how long I had to pick it up. It was "Organizing for Your Brain Type" LOL! I since ordered it again and actually picked it up on time, it was pretty good, it had some helpful tips.

[Nestof3]

We actually have to pay the interlibrary fees. We have to tell the person the maximum we are willing to pay for it, and we don't find out how much it costs until we pick the item up.

 

Now, if we get a book from another branch within our city there is no charge to anyone.

 

I only put things on hold if it is coming from another library. I don't put things on hold just so the librarian will collect them from the shelf for me.

Edited April 14, 2009 by nestof3

[SherryTX]

They should just charge for the cost to bring them from other libraries - no big whoop. They shouldn't give you attitude though. That is not right.

I love our library, and they do not charge at this time to reserve books or getting them from other libraries in our city. (I don't know if they charge to get them outside the system, we have several libraries so that has not been an issue for us.)

 

I would have no problem with the library instituting a system where people who check out a great deal of books were charged a small fee, since they create more work, etc. Right now though, I don't think that is a good idea since we fund them through property tax. (I don't agree with that, but that is for a whole other thread...and probably another board...)

[Night Elf]

The last county I lived in charged a fee for every book we requested from another library system. So I never ordered any.

[katilac]

So I actually have to look carefully to see if a certain book is coming from our library or from somewhere else. The ones that end up being from my library put on hold are obviously processed by our local library ladies (and yes, they're complaining). And the ones that come from other libraries come on the truck.

 

So this church/library friend said that it averages out to $2 per book when someone puts a book on hold. I guess they compile that data on all the books put on hold - within our library and outside of, since the holding system is all the same. I mean, I can imagine it costs them SOMETHING, but that amount just seems so high. I suppose they wouldn't have to hire so many people, drive so many routes, etc., if fewer books were being held, and therefore the cost per book would go down. But still...

 

And FWIW, this woman works directly with processing the library book holds, and is what I consider pretty reliable in her knowledge. I don't think she'd exaggerate. If anything, she'd try to swing it the other way.

 

Anyway, the idea of it costing the library so much bothers me. But still, you're right - we need it, that's what it's there for, so why not? Ah well....

 

Just me being sensitive I guess! :-)

 

I still think there's a bit of miscommunication somewhere. My library only has one system for 'holds' as well, but it is for holds within the system (multiple library locations, but all part of the same library system, usually a county). I'm sure there is a formula for costing out reserved books, but yes, those trucks would be going back and forth no matter what. If they are 'costing out' reserves at $2 a book, that would not phase me at all.

 

An interlibrary loan comes from a completely different library system, with different funding sources. Books only available via interlibrary loan are not going to show up when you do a typical library search; in most systems, you have to fill out a request form of some kind (online or in person).

 

Now, interlibrary loans do have an actual, discrete cost associated with them, not just one that can be costed out from the planned budget. There is, at a minimum, a transportation cost - - getting the book from point A to pont B and back again. Unlike using the reserve system, this is a cost that would not exist if you did not request this book.

 

Some libraries charge so much per interlibrary loan book; mine does not. If the lending library charges a usage fee, you have to pay that, but not postage/transport cost.

 

Your comment about numerous kids' books really makes me think that you are getting those on reserve, not interlibrary loan. Most library system have rules in place for ILL, and a very common restriction is that E and J books cannot be borrowed via ILL. Our library will not ILL E or J books at all, and generally will not ILL bestsellers.

 

My personal take is that I will use the reserve system at my convenience, but ILL requires more thought and a genuine need for that particular book.

[chaik76]

We actually have to pay the interlibrary fees. We have to tell the person the maximum we are willing to pay for it, and we don't find out how much it costs until we pick the item up.

 

Now, if we get a book from another branch within our city there is no charge to anyone.

 

I only put things on hold if it is coming from another library. I don't put things on hold just so the librarian will collect them from the shelf for me.

This is how our library works, too.

 

Luckily, dh is a professor at a university...and we can get all our stuff from there for free (free for us, I mean!).

[gardening momma]

I would have no problem with the library instituting a system where people who check out a great deal of books were charged a small fee, since they create more work, etc.

But a whole bunch of people who check out a small number of books is more work too. So there should be no difference.

[stripe]

There are often different pricing schemes for ILL than one may immediately imagine because of their reciprocal nature.

 

At any rate, if it is a service offered by the library, then I am sure they either realize or WILL realize the cost and act accordingly. I am not sure who sits around calculating how much putting a hold on it would cost, but perhaps those women should wonder how much they are costing the library by chatting instead of doing their work. (One should also realize that not all library employees are librarians.) It's usually the case that people underestimate how much library services cost (for example, people consider the cost of buying the books but not the cost of processing them and housing them), and many people overuse something that is considered "free." But if you are honestly using these books, then I find it silly to restrain yourself just because....

 

Librarians should be, and usually are delighted to see the books being used. Circulation and usage statistics are very important to the library and are used to assert quality and importance in the community, and are an important part of justifying their funding. Hence my previous comment about pink slips. What you should do, in my opinion, is write a letter to the library director about how great your library system is, how much you appreciate the availability of resources, and how much ready access to material contributes to your children's education. It's nice to receive fan letters.

[Rhonda in TX]

I will sometimes reserve a book through the online system even when I see (online) that our branch has it on the shelf. Sometimes I wait and then get to the library and it's checked out. However, when my reserve copy comes, it hardly ever comes from our branch. I can tell because that copy is still shown as on the shelf. I always thought this was very strange. Now, if I find out that they have to pay to get it from another library, that is really strange. Hmmm...

 

There are several reasons I won't worry about any fees incurred by reserving books from other branches. I pay taxes, increasing the volume of books being checked out helps my library, and I've paid plenty of fines! :D

[teamturner]

I've paid plenty of fines! :D

 

Me too!!! I call it my donation to the library! :D

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Sadly, there are many cities where fines go into the city general fund, rather than becoming an extra boost to the library budget. I feel ok if my fund goes into the library system, but if it is just going into the city's black hole of a budget, then I make an extra effort to get things back on time.

[stripe]

Now, if I find out that they have to pay to get it from another library, that is really strange. Hmmm...

See, I think there are two different confusions:

 

1) Were the women talking about interlibrary loan (where one library system borrows from another) OR putting something on reserve (either from that branch or another)?

 

2) Is this a real cost that the library actually has to pay or have these women, on work time, no less, sat there scribbling on the back of an envelope, saying "Well, gas costs $2 a gallon, and Bob drives a van that gets 15 miles to the gallon twice a day, and then I have to spend 5 minutes finding the book, so that means $2 per hold!" Because there's no way that branch X has to pay branch Y of the same library system $2 to shuffle the book around. It sounded to me like the women just "calculated" this by the seat of their pants. Also, there is no uniform cost, anyway. Many holds (for example, on the hot new romance novel or Oprah pick) are directed as books are checked back in, rather than being pulled off the shelf, so that's much cheaper, and a book pulled from the shelf of the same branch it's to be held at....incurs no gas usage.

 

I should also add that I have never met a librarian who wants to go back to the days before moving items around between branches. In my experience, the people who processing the holds at the branch level (writing someone's name and then arranging them on the holds shelf) is very likely not a librarian, instead probably a clerk, and this might explain their outlook being more on the amount of work to them rather than the service to the library patron.

[Audrey]

I've worked at libraries for a good portion of my adult life. In system library "holds" or "requests" probably cost about that much. True ILLs (Interlibrary Loans), as in books are actually ordered from a completely different library systems cost much more than that. I've heard estimates of about $20.

You shouldn't feel at all guilty about placing holds. At my library we LOVE holds because it helps our circulation stats which helps our library staffing needs. Often we you walk by the hold shelf you'll see rows of books for the same family or customers. It sounds like maybe a couple of people at your library are a little grumpy. :D

Another thing I want to add is that by checking out so many books you are also increasing the chance of that book staying on the shelf. We weed 1-2x a year and if a books isn't being checked out often enough we have to get rid of it. We look at it as a book having to earn its place to stay on the shelf.

Don't feel guilty! Libraries are there to be used, alot.

 

:D

 

 

I'm our little town's librarian and this is very true! When people ask why I've weeded xyz book to the sale table, I tell them it's because it either is too worn out, or I got a replacement copy or, most likely, no one's been interested in it (and it isn't canon). So, if they want their old Janet Daileys and ancient Danielle Steels to stay on the shelves, they ought to start checking 'em out more. :D

 

Also, on the subject of HOLDS, as in requesting to be the next in line for a book your library owns -- that costs very little. Basically, about 10 minutes worth of personnel time.

 

Now, INTERLIBRARY LOANS, as in books that come from libraries NOT your own library (or library system), that is a completely different issue. Some libraries charge a fee for non-member libraries to borrow their books. These fees can range from $2 up to $50 or even more for specialized or rare materials.

 

IF your library has a policy of not charging patrons for ILLs, then that means the library is paying that fee for you and eating the cost.

 

If your library is like mine, we will ILL for you from any provincial or national library that does not charge a fee, however, if they do require a fee for borrowing, we will ask you to pay that fee. And, we will ask you if you're willing to pay the fee before we complete the request.

 

The way our ILL system works, we can send up to 1kg of books only (NO video or A/V etc) for 82¢ including return postage. It's a special deal that Canada Post has created for officially established and recognized libraries only (so, no... fellow Canucks, you may NOT use this to ship your books!). That cost is borne by the lending library, though, not the borrowing library. The idea being that this, in effect, creates a huge reciprocal borrowing pool of books, with libraries borrowing from each other and the costs balancing out in the long run.

 

The reality is that larger libraries, with larger collections get far more requests than tiny libraries, like mine. So, some of the larger libraries have instituted fees for ILLs. Libraries with protected collections will charge a fee as well -- universities, especially, charge the upper end of fees for their materials.

 

I am not at all opposed to the extra fees that some libraries charge. I understand that it is there to do two things 1) provide a modicum of insurance that the book will be returned, and 2) thwart frivolous use of their materials by ILL borrowers.

 

And, if I may be so very honest, the majority of ILL requests I make for my patrons AND which I receive from other libraries are frivolous requests. They are for books that are of trendy subjects or authors or titles that they COULD have got from their own library if they'd placed a hold, but usually they don't want to wait. My small library is likely to have a copy on shelf because my patrons have been through it already. That, I don't mind because if my patrons aren't reading it, what the heck. I won't place ILL holds on pop titles though when I see on our Provincial database that the requesting library has 10 copies, they're just all off shelf at the moment.

 

The ones that really irk me though are the ones we refer to as "shelf wipers." These are people who will wipe the entire shelf clean of a subject. Then, they will ILL everything in a subject that they can possibly find listed. You know it's just to glance through them because they come back with such a quick turn around they can't possibly have actually read it. It's especially irksome when that subject is the same one that other people are looking to find (usually because of a school project or a local interest thing). A while ago, it became such an issue that we actually instituted our first "limit policy" on borrowing. That you can have no more than 5 titles from the same non-fiction call number. Of course, a few people complained, but I got way more complaints when the subject sections were bare, so I consider it a vast improvement. Besides... there are few things that I can say I loathe about the library, but shelf wipers is one of them. I mean, if they were actually READING them, that would be one thing, but it's never that. They just glance through them. They could do that BEFORE checking it out! If you are shelf wiper and I have offended you... :D

[chaik76]

 

 

 

The reality is that larger libraries, with larger collections get far more requests than tiny libraries, like mine. So, some of the larger libraries have instituted fees for ILLs. Libraries with protected collections will charge a fee as well -- universities, especially, charge the upper end of fees for their materials.

 

 

And, if I may be so very honest, the majority of ILL requests I make for my patrons AND which I receive from other libraries are frivolous requests. They are for books that are of trendy subjects or authors or titles that they COULD have got from their own library if they'd placed a hold, but usually they don't want to wait. My small library is likely to have a copy on shelf because my patrons have been through it already. That, I don't mind because if my patrons aren't reading it, what the heck. I won't place ILL holds on pop titles though when I see on our Provincial database that the requesting library has 10 copies, they're just all off shelf at the moment.

 

The ones that really irk me though are the ones we refer to as "shelf wipers." These are people who will wipe the entire shelf clean of a subject. Then, they will ILL everything in a subject that they can possibly find listed. You know it's just to glance through them because they come back with such a quick turn around they can't possibly have actually read it. It's especially irksome when that subject is the same one that other people are looking to find (usually because of a school project or a local interest thing). A while ago, it became such an issue that we actually instituted our first "limit policy" on borrowing. That you can have no more than 5 titles from the same non-fiction call number. Of course, a few people complained, but I got way more complaints when the subject sections were bare, so I consider it a vast improvement. Besides... there are few things that I can say I loathe about the library, but shelf wipers is one of them. I mean, if they were actually READING them, that would be one thing, but it's never that. They just glance through them. They could do that BEFORE checking it out! If you are shelf wiper and I have offended you... :D

Wow! I have never heard of someone not accepting an ILL just because it's not on the shelf! You would absolutely detest me. I am a shelf wiper. Why? Because when I am wiping a shelf it means I am doing research on a subject. I might return the books to you within two days, and you can bet I will have read the parts that were interesting to me, and that I needed.

 

I'm also impatient. If you have ten copies and all are out, I feel perfectly justified in ILLing something...and do, and have! If you wouldn't do it for me I would ask someone else (if you were in charge, I would file a formal complaint). If there are ten copies, all are out...and there are a hundred hold on something, it could take me months to get what I want to read, pop book or not (though I don't typically read books like this). I don't have the time to waste waiting for that.

 

I spent four years working in a library...circulation and ILL. I don't have the degree necessary to work in Research. One of the reasons I don't frequent libraries any more is because of the policies you are listing above (not the exact same ones, but similar ones). It's not helpful to me to wait three weeks for a book...or to be told that I can only take five books on a subject out at a time...I can read five books in a day. And if I am working on a paper or an article, the delay of taking out five books, bringing them back, taking out five more, etc. can cost me a job.

 

Now I'm trying to find a gracious way to end this and not coming up with one! I understand that you have those policies in place to better serve all the members of your community. (And that's why I am glad I have a dh who is a professor and can take out two hundred books and keep them out for a year if he wants...)

[Kate in Arabia]

(And that's why I am glad I have a dh who is a professor and can take out two hundred books and keep them out for a year if he wants...)

 

Not germaine to the thread topic, but I remember many times going to my univ library and being unable to get a book because a prof had checked it out basically indefinitely. That was frustrating. If they needed a book for that long maybe they should have invested in buying their own copy.

[Amber in AUS]

At least you can put things on hold at your library. If the book is on the shelf at my library then you CAN NOT put a hold on it or reserve it. You must physically go into the library and find it on the shelf and check it out yourself. I am able to reserve/hold items that are currently on loan for when they come back in, I can also request ILL items at no charge. But I sure wish I could just input a list and have them waiting for me when I go to the library. Instead I have to juggle the littles and try to locate the books I want which are all over the library because they like to space things out.

[alegnab]

I haven't read through most of the responses, so I'm probably repeating stuff. I constantly put things on hold at my library. Each title in the card catalog has a "Request a copy" button and each item (meaning each copy of every title) has a "Request THIS copy" button. Using either of those is what's commonly called "putting an item on hold." I was at the library recently and gave the librarian my card and my items. She couldn't believe I didn't have any holds (Dh or I usually go weekly, but I had been there a few days before). She said she was waiting for me to pull out one of my other library cards. My family has six cards, and I carry five; dh carries his. I almost always have many items on hold, spread across at least two cards. We can have 15 holds per card at any one time. I put things on hold that are in our other library branch, but I also put items on hold that are on the shelves at the branch I visit. The librarians have never complained within my hearing about our great number of holds. I think most of them think it's great that my family reads so much. My library has lots of volunteers, and they probably do most of the searching for holds. We have well-paid librarians. My library has won awards for its great service. It gets a lot of support from residents.

 

ILL is a completely different process. We have a "Suggest an Item" tab on our card catalog page. That is for items that are not in our library system. I have often requested the library to buy items, and most of the items I've requested have been bought. On the Suggest an Item page, there is this question: "If we cannot purchase this title would you like us to try and get it on Interlibrary Loan (ILL)?" with yes & no buttons. I rarely use that, even though it doesn't cost me anything. I usually limit that to out-of-print items.

 

I can't believe that it costs $2 per item put on hold, so I, like many other responders here, think that's just for the ILL that are outside of a regular run for the library.

[LMA]

So I actually have to look carefully to see if a certain book is coming from our library or from somewhere else. The ones that end up being from my library put on hold are obviously processed by our local library ladies (and yes, they're complaining). And the ones that come from other libraries come on the truck.

 

So this church/library friend said that it averages out to $2 per book when someone puts a book on hold. I guess they compile that data on all the books put on hold - within our library and outside of, since the holding system is all the same. I mean, I can imagine it costs them SOMETHING, but that amount just seems so high. I suppose they wouldn't have to hire so many people, drive so many routes, etc., if fewer books were being held, and therefore the cost per book would go down. But still...

 

And FWIW, this woman works directly with processing the library book holds, and is what I consider pretty reliable in her knowledge. I don't think she'd exaggerate. If anything, she'd try to swing it the other way.

 

Anyway, the idea of it costing the library so much bothers me. But still, you're right - we need it, that's what it's there for, so why not? Ah well....

 

Just me being sensitive I guess! :-)

 

Stacey,

 

You are in MA, correct? I am in MA also. My library encourages everyone to use the interlibrary system to find books so that books are shared across the libraries and you don't need to buy the same book for every library. It saves money for each library. And the staff at my library will offer to get you a book through the SAILS system if they can't find it in the library.

 

The purpose of being in the SAILS system is to share books. In fact, Norton and Easton are out of the system for now because their town budget didn't put enough toward their own libraries and now the patrons there can't check out of any library in the SAILS system even if they drive to another library.

 

Your property and state income taxes pay for the library system, so use the library loan to your hearts content. I do and I don't worry about the cost per book because it still saves each library money from having to get every Star Wars book or every cookbook or DVD. Since your library participates in the SAILS program, use the program. If your library was not in the program, you wouldn't get to use the loan program and you would be limited to the resources in your library. This program keeps people coming to the library. My library publishes stats on loans and checkouts and attendance at programs and classes and the director is proud of how much business the library has. She uses those numbers to keep their budget funded by the town and to increase staff.

 

I am also a member of the Friends of my library. The money you donate the Friends of the Library does not usually go toward the operating budget. That money is for extras such as the programs of your library and the passes that you can use, but not the interlibrary loan.

 

Louise

[melissel]

Wow! I have never heard of someone not accepting an ILL just because it's not on the shelf! You would absolutely detest me. I am a shelf wiper. Why? Because when I am wiping a shelf it means I am doing research on a subject. I might return the books to you within two days, and you can bet I will have read the parts that were interesting to me, and that I needed.

 

I'm also impatient. If you have ten copies and all are out, I feel perfectly justified in ILLing something...and do, and have! If you wouldn't do it for me I would ask someone else (if you were in charge, I would file a formal complaint). If there are ten copies, all are out...and there are a hundred hold on something, it could take me months to get what I want to read, pop book or not (though I don't typically read books like this). I don't have the time to waste waiting for that.

 

I'm going to have to agree here. Weren't ILL and book hold policies generally put in place for the convenience and satisfaction of library patrons, to make our lives easier and INCREASE the number of books we borrow from our library systems? If my library didn't want me to request a copy of Twilight when all of its copies were already out, why does the ILL system exist anyway? Isn't the reality of more people reading more books a good thing?

 

I'll admit to being guilty of "shelf swiping" when I'm doing research as well. I had a large number of gardening books on hand recently, because I'm learning from square one in a subject I know nothing about. Many of them turned out to be useless to me, but I wouldn't have known that until I had my hands on them.

 

Until I saw this thread, I had no idea at all that ILL might cost our library anything beyond gas in a van that would be making rounds anyway. I didn't know that the books might actually be shipped. And I consider myself a pretty knowledgeable library patron. I'll definitely look into it when I'm there next, and I'll try to be more judicious in my requesting (we get almost all of our readalouds for SOTW that way, because our own library is pretty small). But I'll wager that the "shelf swipers" and those impatient people requesting books they want to read as soon as possible from other libraries had no idea they were taking some kind of unfair advantage of a system that was set up for their use. I guess I find that line of thinking pretty upsetting :(

Edited April 14, 2009 by melissel

[Rhonda in TX]

I need to check on that.

[melissel]

And, if I may be so very honest, the majority of ILL requests I make for my patrons AND which I receive from other libraries are frivolous requests. They are for books that are of trendy subjects or authors or titles that they COULD have got from their own library if they'd placed a hold, but usually they don't want to wait.

 

Also, why do you get to decide when a request for a book is worthy? Just because someone's requesting an Oprah book rather than--I don't know--Shakespeare, their request gets tossed? And because maybe they hadn't heard of the book a week ago, they don't get their request filled today? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation, but if I'm not...then I don't really understand! :confused:

Edited April 14, 2009 by melissel

[Rhonda in TX]

At least you can put things on hold at your library. If the book is on the shelf at my library then you CAN NOT put a hold on it or reserve it. You must physically go into the library and find it on the shelf and check it out yourself. I am able to reserve/hold items that are currently on loan for when they come back in, I can also request ILL items at no charge. But I sure wish I could just input a list and have them waiting for me when I go to the library. Instead I have to juggle the littles and try to locate the books I want which are all over the library because they like to space things out.

 

DD and I were looking for a book at the library the other day. The catalog said it was on the shelf in our library. It wasn't. So, we requested it. That's exactly why I will occasionally request books (from home, online) that are listed as being on the shelf at our branch.

[Prudent]

In my library's latest newsletter, which I received last week, they had a section on ILLs and holds. They didn't mention a price per item, their focus was on getting folks to pick up their holds. They claimed 'most' holds and ILLs never get picked up, and it is a waste of resources to process these orphaned holds.

 

I could definitely see a reason for library staff to be grumpy about holds if most of them go unclaimed.

[Katiebug_1976]

I know it costs libraries something for inter-library loan books. Someone has to pay the postage costs for the books to be shipped to and from. Some libraries have large enough budgets to cover these costs, and other, usually smaller libraries, have to charge their partons. I don't think it's right for the library ladies to try to make someone feel guilty for ordering books that they need to educate their children. Even if there are quite a few on a regular basis. This system was set up to be used, so use it!

[stripe]

The ones that really irk me though are the ones we refer to as "shelf wipers." These are people who will wipe the entire shelf clean of a subject. Then, they will ILL everything in a subject that they can possibly find listed. You know it's just to glance through them because they come back with such a quick turn around they can't possibly have actually read it.

I am not a big fan of people taking every book on a subject, but on more than one occasion I have checked out books for less than 48 hours that I have read in their entirety.

[unsinkable]

My county has about 37 branches. You can request books from any branch (adult books cost a quarter, children's books are free.) You can also return books to any branch. So I am assuming they use the same trucks & routes to transport the returns and the requests.

 

Now, the branches outside the city are run by the towns & villages. My little town had 5 branches and due to financial reasons had to close three of them. My neighborhood branch was slated to close b/c it is physically the smallest building and held the smallest amount of books & materials. BUT when they looked at circulation, we were 2nd in the town and in the top 10 in the county. They kept us open and closed 3 others. Two of the closed libraries were in parts of town that have more expensive real estate and are considered "nicer" parts of town.

 

I know my requests helped keep my branch open. The librarians told me so & thanked me. :D

[Stephanie/MO]

....and more for Teaching Company tapes, etc.

But my son can interlibrary loan any book free of charge from the local university because he attends.

Sometimes I do this if it is in the book is in the local trading system and it is an adult-type book (not a child's picture book, etc.)

Don't want to embarass the guy :)

 

Blessings,

Stephanie

[Tammyla]

ILLs aren't free to library card holders in our neck of the woods. Local on-line holds are between our three local libraries, but ILLs are charged to us. Very rarely do I request something from ILL, but I do use the on-line holds all.the.time.

[Nestof3]

Wow! I have never heard of someone not accepting an ILL just because it's not on the shelf! You would absolutely detest me. I am a shelf wiper. Why? Because when I am wiping a shelf it means I am doing research on a subject. I might return the books to you within two days, and you can bet I will have read the parts that were interesting to me, and that I needed.

 

I'm also impatient. If you have ten copies and all are out, I feel perfectly justified in ILLing something...and do, and have! If you wouldn't do it for me I would ask someone else (if you were in charge, I would file a formal complaint). If there are ten copies, all are out...and there are a hundred hold on something, it could take me months to get what I want to read, pop book or not (though I don't typically read books like this). I don't have the time to waste waiting for that.

 

I spent four years working in a library...circulation and ILL. I don't have the degree necessary to work in Research. One of the reasons I don't frequent libraries any more is because of the policies you are listing above (not the exact same ones, but similar ones). It's not helpful to me to wait three weeks for a book...or to be told that I can only take five books on a subject out at a time...I can read five books in a day. And if I am working on a paper or an article, the delay of taking out five books, bringing them back, taking out five more, etc. can cost me a job.

 

Now I'm trying to find a gracious way to end this and not coming up with one! I understand that you have those policies in place to better serve all the members of your community. (And that's why I am glad I have a dh who is a professor and can take out two hundred books and keep them out for a year if he wants...)

 

We never have long holds on academic items -- just best sellers and new movies. I don't even think our library will do an interlibrary loan if they have the title in their system. I have requested two of them in my homeschooling time -- both were out of print items. I just always considered the libraries in my city are the ones I support with my tax dollars, so they are the ones I am to be receiving my items from.

 

What irks me is when people who no longer live in Va Beach use our library because it's better than their own.

 

Our library is also allowed to limit the number of items checked out on one subject. I do think the library is trying to keep the needs of all patrons served -- the library is for ALL of those within its city. It's not just my pesonal library.

[Nestof3]

I am not a big fan of people taking every book on a subject, but on more than one occasion I have checked out books for less than 48 hours that I have read in their entirety.

 

Yes, I just took out lots of folk tales and fairy tales on Russia along with a couple of non-fiction books, but I will return them in two days. I try to return books at least every 7 days to make sure others have a chance to use them.

[Nestof3]

DD and I were looking for a book at the library the other day. The catalog said it was on the shelf in our library. It wasn't. So, we requested it. That's exactly why I will occasionally request books (from home, online) that are listed as being on the shelf at our branch.

 

Yes, I have done this as well, but I do check the shelf first because it rarely happens -- not often enough to justify my putting a hold on things all of the time. I just assumed holds were something you did when you found a title you were interested in but a copy was not available at your library.

 

I also think because I don't annoy my librarians, they are more prone to order things I request them to buy. :) I do know they know me by name because they've said things like, "Hi -- I just placed some items on the hold shelf for you."

[Rhonda in TX]

Here's what I got in response. (their reply in blue)

 

1. When I pay overdue book fines, does the money go directly to the library system?

 

Fines and fees go to the General Fund of Harris County--not specifically to the library.

 

2. If I reserve books from other branches of HCPL, is there a cost to the library?

 

HCPL has a delivery system of 4 trucks with drivers that deliver and pick up at each branch Monday-Friday. The costs are considered part of doing business since this is also how we ship the new materials out to the branches.

 

3. I am sure there is a cost involved in ILL. Can you share what that is?

 

ILL is funded partly by a Federal Grant but mostly by the county which pays for the software, staff and postage to provide this service.

[Guest]

Our library just implemented charges this year. I was upset about them at first (coming from not having to pay anything) but I am okay with them now.

 

ILL - requesting a book from outside of our library system now costs $5. Some lending libraries do charge and when I request an ILL I have to put what I'd be willing to pay for the book (in addition to the $5). I always put $0. Like someone else said, if I have to pay over $5, I can probably buy it.

 

Holds - there is no charge to request/hold books within our own library system, but if you do not pick it up within 7 days, you are charged $2. I don't have a problem with this. If you don't pick it up, I do think that is extra work for the librarians, plus the book is being tied up and not even being used.

 

I request TONS of books within our library system. I very often request items from my own library. I can't tell you how many times I've gone in to look for a book that the computer says they have, only to not be able to find it. That is really frustrating, especially with two little kids in tow. I feel they should be thankful I'm having them pull the books I want, as opposed to having to replace all the books my kids would pull of the shelves or deal with their noise if I got the books myself. As they get older, we're learning better library manners. :D

 

If I wasn't able to put my books on hold for free, I wouldn't use the library system. It's the stage I'm at in life.

[Mommy22alyns]

Our library charges us the $2 for ILL. And it's non-refundable, so if they can't get that particular book, you have to find something else to borrow via ILL or just lose the money. Honestly, I'd rather just go buy the book at that point! :glare: Our state is ranked almost last in library funding though, and we live in a small town... you all would probably cry if you saw our library!

[Colleen in NS]

If they are 'costing out' reserves at $2 a book, that would not phase me at all.

 

I couldn't afford to use the library system if they did that here. Then I'd really be stuck in trying to educate my kids the way I think they should be educated.

 

You shouldn't feel at all guilty about placing holds. At my library we LOVE holds because it helps our circulation stats which helps our library staffing needs.

 

Circulation and usage statistics are very important to the library and are used to assert quality and importance in the community, and are an important part of justifying their funding.

 

I'm so glad to hear these two comments! I really do appreciate our library system - free reserves within the regional system, 60 book limit per card, pickup at any branch, nice employees.

 

I've never used ILL - I should check into it for those books not in our system.