Why are 5 of the most polluted citites in the US in CA?

[Karenciavo]

Just curious.

[jacqui in mo]

Maybe they don't have enough government regulation & over site. ;0)

[PineFarmMom]

Maybe they don't have enough government regulation & over site. ;0)

 

Yes. I'm certain that is it. It has to be. :lol: I think the whole thing is rather ironic.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Just curious.

 

Mainly it's geography. The pollution gets trapped over the cities because of how they lie geographically.

[TraceyS/FL]

Maybe they don't have enough government regulation & over site. ;0)

 

:lol:

 

:lol:

 

Yup, that MUST be it!!

 

(native CA girl here, even had a family biz.....)

[Melinda in VT]

Mainly it's geography. The pollution gets trapped over the cities because of how they lie geographically.

 

This was my thought too, based on what I know of pollution issues in Utah. Regulations can only control how much gets put into the air. You can't really change what the air currents do.

[Soph the vet]

Maybe they don't have enough government regulation & over site. ;0)

:lol: And my state (Minnesota) is currently proposing to adopt whatever the environmental regulations are in California:001_huh:! Does that make ANY sense at all?

[Jumping In Puddles]

Actually, it is also, in part, because of the pollution from China. No joke.

 

Worse yet, thanks to prevailing wind patterns, a lot of China's pollution ends up here: As much as 40 percent of the air pollution our own West Coast states breathe originates in China.

 

link

 

hmmm.. off topic but here is a terrifying view of China in the NYT: link. And that is just part one! :eek:

Edited January 6, 2009 by Jumping In Puddles

[Jumping In Puddles]

:lol: And my state (Minnesota) is currently proposing to adopt whatever the environmental regulations are in California:001_huh:! Does that make ANY sense at all?

 

Well, the terrain and location of California is what is making it polluted, it is not because the laws are ineffective. To say to Californian's - listen, you have so much pollution already, let's just allow companies to pollute and allow cars etc. to emit more pollutants because - look, your already so polluted! :eek:

 

In countries where and even in states where there is less pollutants in the air from auto's and industry the air is much cleaner there! That is why those laws are so important. Just look at the article that I linked to above about China in the NYT. Wow! That is what NO LAWS on emissions look like! Absolutely terrifying. I urge you to read it. The worst part is, we have no control over what China puts into the air and our west coast will suffer.

 

 

ETA: I don't think that a "one size fits all" air quality regulations is what will be most effective. For example, in California, they have different needs than NY. The have different industries, different terrain, different winds etc. I think Minnesota should not look at California but look at where THEIR pollution is coming from and make laws and regulations that will make the air, waters etc. cleaner. I don't believe in regulation for regulations sake, please don't get me wrong! But look at China where there is no regulation and it is a nightmare.

Edited January 6, 2009 by Jumping In Puddles

[Renee in NC]

Well, if you're actually curious, and not intending to be snarky about government regulations...there are different types of pollution measurements. Some by ozone, industry, and autos. Much does blow here from China. Plus the geography of the state contributes challenges to the clean up. I believe, since tougher pollution laws were enacted there, the air quality has improved.

IMO, humans wouldn't have to breathe as much filth if corporations incurred the REAL cost of polluting instead of passing on the cost to our environment.

 

Wouldn't that mean that the *consumers* would need to pay the real cost of pollution? Many things that could be done to improve the environment will cost us, the consumers, more money.

 

For example, one way to reduce the 40% that comes from China is to stop buying cheap junk from China, right?;)

[Stacy in NJ]

Just curious.

 

Isn't it ironic that the "armpit of the Northeast- NJ" has only on city, Newark on the list, and only on the ozone list?

 

We maybe an armpit, but, apparently we're a well aired armpit.

[JFSinIL]

In part, from China (really!) and in large part due to geography. The air gets trapped in the basin between the mountains and the ocean and says put. The one good thing about a Santa Ana wind - it blows the smog away for a spell!

 

JFS in IL...born and bred in S. Ca until she moved to the middle of nowhere almost HALF MY LIFE AGO!!!!

[pqr]

Originally Posted by Dot

Well, if you're actually curious, and not intending to be snarky about government regulations...there are different types of pollution measurements. Some by ozone, industry, and autos. Much does blow here from China. Plus the geography of the state contributes challenges to the clean up. I believe, since tougher pollution laws were enacted there, the air quality has improved.

IMO, humans wouldn't have to breathe as much filth if corporations incurred the REAL cost of polluting instead of passing on the cost to our environment.

 

Wouldn't that mean that the *consumers* would need to pay the real cost of pollution? Many things that could be done to improve the environment will cost us, the consumers, more money.

 

For example, one way to reduce the 40% that comes from China is to stop buying cheap junk from China, right?;)

 

Nicely put! Corporations do not incur costs, they either go broke or pass them on to the consumer.

[Karenciavo]

Well, if you're actually curious, and not intending to be snarky about government regulations...there are different types of pollution measurements. Some by ozone, industry, and autos. Much does blow here from China. Plus the geography of the state contributes challenges to the clean up. I believe, since tougher pollution laws were enacted there, the air quality has improved.

IMO, humans wouldn't have to breathe as much filth if corporations incurred the REAL cost of polluting instead of passing on the cost to our environment.

 

I didn't think there was anything in my post that would indicate snarkiness. :001_huh:

Thank you for your response. (not snarky either.)

[Karenciavo]

Thanks for the responses. I figured it was geography related, but I didn't know about China's contribution. :glare:

[Jumping In Puddles]

buying cheap junk from China, right?

 

I will never understand what people want with all that China junk. :confused: The doctor's office has a "treasure chest" filled with it (and strept, flu germs also, I'm sure!) The checkout lines of the supermarket (Do parents really give in and get these while they're on line????????)

 

I saw a documentary once and I can't think of the name of it, but it showed this little old lady (and children in the backround) in this factory painstakingly stringing beads for a necklace and then in the next scene they show a scene from New Orleans where people are flinging the necklaces and the beads breaking all over the ground. I am not explaining it as well as the visual showed it from the movie but it was very powerful.

Edited January 6, 2009 by Jumping In Puddles

[Karenciavo]

I don't think that a "one size fits all" air quality regulations is what will be most effective. For example, in California, they have different needs than NY. The have different industries, different terrain, different winds etc. I think Minnesota should not look at California but look at where THEIR pollution is coming from and make laws and regulations that will make the air, waters etc. cleaner. I don't believe in regulation for regulations sake, please don't get me wrong! But look at China where there is no regulation and it is a nightmare.

 

What is the industry that leads to CA pollution do you know? When I think of CA I think of natural beauty, I'm not thinking Pulaski Skyway KWIM?

[Ellie]

*Los Angeles/Long Beach/Riverside, Calif.*

I don't know what the population is in the L.A. area, but it's huge. And I don't know exactly what counts as "pollution," but I gotta tell ya...I wouldn't hesitate to move to that area because of "pollution." It's beautiful. And Disneyland is there. :-)

 

*Fresno/Madera and Bakersfield, Calif.*

I suspect that their "pollution" wafts up and over from L.A. and then just hangs in the air. All three are in the Central Valley, almost in a straight line with each other north to south.

 

*Sacramento, Calif.*

And I suspect theirs comes over from the San Francisco Bay area.

 

Fresno, Madera, Sacramento and Bakersfield--even Riverside--are not big enough and don't have enough industrial waste to make their own polution, KIWM?

[Zelda]

Because we deserve it.

 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Jumping In Puddles]

What is the industry that leads to CA pollution do you know? When I think of CA I think of natural beauty, I'm not thinking Pulaski Skyway KWIM?

 

I am not an expert on California or pollution but I believe that California's problems are because of China and unlike NYC, which is an island, the wind frequently blows the pollution right out of the city. So for emissions, it is more important that Cali has stricter emissions laws because the pollution doesn't blow away but gets trapped in valleys. Same reason Denver is usually listed as one of the most polluted (haven't checked, are they still on there?) because of the terrain.

 

Now, apparently, the biggest polluters in Cali comes from oil used in cars and trucks, coal and natural gas burned to produce electricity, and natural gas used in homes and businesses. There is also, from just a quick google search, smaller industries that add to pollution that might not be a problem in a place like NY or Minnesota, such as the cement industry. They have only 11 factories but accounts for 2% of the pollution in Cali.

 

I'm sure there are more industry but I think the bulk of pollution comes from China and emissions (heating, driving, electricity). So NJ, which probably has many similar industry perhaps even more, doesn't need as strict environmental controls and regulations because we are blessed with a better (for clean air quality only! can't dispute CA wonderful, beautiful land and weather!) geographic location.

 

Is that what you meant?

 

Actually, I haven't looked it up, but come to think of it, I recall that New England has similar pollution problems from coal plants in Ohio and the air quality is not as good as the NJ area. Surprising because N.E. also is pretty and serene where Newark and the surrounding areas are truly awful! Does anyone enjoy that? I hate the NJ turnpike! Blech.

[Firefly]

Perhaps it is the tech industry? Silicon Valley and all that? Just something that occurred to me though I admittedly don't know much about this. :blushing:

[Carol in Cal.]

Actually, the air quality in CA is much better than when I was a kid. Emissions controls on cars here have really been helpful, especially in place like Santa Clara County where it's pretty common for pollutants to be just held in place by inversions over the valley during the hot summer months. There used to be a lot more 'kind of brown air' days here than there are now.

 

I have heard the same thing from people who have lived in the LA area for a long time.

[lovemyboys]

What is the industry that leads to CA pollution do you know? When I think of CA I think of natural beauty, I'm not thinking Pulaski Skyway KWIM?

 

Mainly it's geography. The pollution gets trapped over the cities because of how they lie geographically.

 

Definitely geography, coupled with the climate, holds on to the pollution and doesn't let it dissipate.

 

It doesn't help that the huge concentration of vehicles, homes and industries in southern Calif. send up even more pollutants and emissions that just hang there.

[Spy Car]

The air quality in the part of Los Angeles I live is DRASTICALLY better than it was when I was a child.

 

Then the air was often brown, and if you played too hard you'd often feel a burning pain in your throat and lungs. Really, it was that bad in the 1960s.

 

Now, despite a much larger population and more automobiles, the air quality is quite improved.

 

There are parts of the city that are still really challenged, as the local air quality is very dependent on physical conditions (especially relation to mountains and wind patterns). So parts of LA have typically have good air quality, while other parts tend to have vastly higher pollution levels.

 

But pollution city-wide is vastly better than in was 40 years ago, or even 20 years ago. Its hard to overstate how much better it is now.

 

And I think you'd be hard pressed to find an Angeleno who isn't grateful for the air-quality regulations (especially automobile exhaust mitigation measures) which have made this area dramatically more livable.

 

Bill

[lighthouseacademy]

 

*Fresno/Madera and Bakersfield, Calif.*

I suspect that their "pollution" wafts up and over from L.A. and then just hangs in the air. All three are in the Central Valley, almost in a straight line with each other north to south.

 

 

Fresno, Madera, Sacramento and Bakersfield--even Riverside--are not big enough and don't have enough industrial waste to make their own polution, KIWM?

 

I used to live in Fresno and the pollution is horrendous... BTW to list Madera in addition to Fresno is pretty silly because they almost run into each other. Ok back to the nitty gritty. Fresno is in a valley. Air literally traps there. Furthermore there is a HUGE ag economy there so they spray pesticides etc. Also, it is pretty warm most of the year and that hot air just seals in the air pollution. Most of the pollution actually comes from the Bay Area. When I lived there, there was talk about how Fresno was going to get fined if their pollution didn't go down. The problem was that there is no industrial pollution in that town and really, for a geographic area as large as they are talking, there aren't that many people, especially considering it is a city... people in Fresno were pretty upset and suing the Bay Area because of the pollution. Fresno had super strict smog laws, strict no burn days, etc to combat as much as they could.

[Liz CA]

Perhaps it is the tech industry? Silicon Valley and all that? Just something that occurred to me though I admittedly don't know much about this. :blushing:

 

Terrain is certainly an issue. The long central calley acts like a funnel and air gets trapped between the Sierras and the Coastal Mountains. I wonder if most of those 5 cities are along the central valley?

 

My county has issues in the fall when the farmers burn their rice fields.

[Melissa in CA]

Because we deserve it.

 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

 

:lol::lol:

 

I am a Californian and I HATE California!!!! I would move from this god-forsaken place in a New York minute. :tongue_smilie:

 

It cracks me up when people say California is beautiful. :001_huh: Ah, yeah, sure it is. Not to say there isn't some beautiful country here and there, but having traveled all over California it isn't nearly as beautiful as say, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia... ;)

 

And, hello, have you ever been to a So CA beach!? Blech! I suppose they would be considered beautiful if you like to swim with baby diapers and such...:glare: After visiting Hawaii and the East Coast, I have no desire whatsoever to visit another CA beach.

 

We do have beautiful sunsets though...the red and orange rays bouncing off the smog is lovely indeed. :lol:

Edited January 6, 2009 by Melissa in CA

[Stacy in NJ]

:lol::lol:

 

I am a Californian and I HATE California!!!! I would move from this god-forsaken place in a New York minute. :tongue_smilie:

 

It cracks me up when people say California is beautiful. :001_huh: Ah, yeah, sure it is. Not to say there isn't some beautiful country here and there, but having traveled all over California it isn't nearly as beautiful as say, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia... ;)

 

And, hello, have you ever been to a So CA beach!? Blech! I suppose they would be considered beautiful if you like to swim with baby diapers and such...:glare: After visiting Hawaii and the East Coast, I have no desire whatsoever to visit another CA beach.

 

We do have beautiful sunsets though...the red and orange rays bouncing off the smog is lovely indeed. :lol:

 

 

Go East, Young Woman! :001_smile:

[*Inna*]

Because we deserve it.

 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

:iagree::tongue_smilie: We're in Bakersfield.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Los Angeles, and it's surrounding cities, lie in a basin. It's literally a bowl, surrounded by mountains. Any pollution that is produced there, or blows in on the wind, stays there. If you've ever flown into it, you'll know what I mean. You literally fly over the mountains, then down into the "soup" of brown yuckiness. It's gross. They need stronger regulations because they're fighting against mountains, literally.

[Vida Winter]

If you think CA is bad now you should have been there 40 years ago. I was born in LA. I remember many "smog alert" days where people were warned to not go outside. We lived on top of a big hill and could see a sickening layer of smog laying over the city. I have been there in recent years and have never seen anything like what we used to see, but then again I don't live there....does this still happen ("smog alert") days? It was my impression that they had cleaned it up considerably despite the much larger population now.

[King Alfred Academy]

Because we deserve it.

 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

:iagree:...and I *just* moved here!

[lovemyboys]

The air quality in the part of Los Angeles I live is DRASTICALLY better than it was when I was a child.

 

Then the air was often brown, and if you played too hard you'd often feel a burning pain in your throat and lungs. Really, it was that bad in the 1960s.

 

Now, despite a much larger population and more automobiles, the air quality is quite improved.

 

But pollution city-wide is vastly better than in was 40 years ago, or even 20 years ago. Its hard to overstate how much better it is now.

 

Haven't lived there, only visited a number of times, but I remember the not-too-distant past of your area with the smog-alerts and health cautions. Photos of the area used to be downright ugly.

 

You're right about the improvements. The US has made huge strides in better efficiencies and cleaner technology balanced with sound economic practices.

 

Hopefully newly proposed standards won't strangle the Calif. economy as well as the teetering auto industry since Calif. is one of the largest consumers.

 

A bit OT: Have you seen the ad comparing the mpg of the mini-cooper with the escalade? I would've been thoroughly surprised if I hadn't recently talked with a couple owners who mentioned their mileage. I never would've guessed.

[pqr]

Originally Posted by Melissa in CA

 

 

I am a Californian and I HATE California!!!! I would move from this god-forsaken place in a New York minute. :tongue_smilie:

 

It cracks me up when people say California is beautiful. :001_huh: Ah, yeah, sure it is. Not to say there isn't some beautiful country here and there, but having traveled all over California it isn't nearly as beautiful as say, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia... ;)

 

And, hello, have you ever been to a So CA beach!? Blech! I suppose they would be considered beautiful if you like to swim with baby diapers and such...:glare: After visiting Hawaii and the East Coast, I have no desire whatsoever to visit another CA beach.

 

We do have beautiful sunsets though...the red and orange rays bouncing off the smog is lovely indeed. :lol:

 

Go East, Young Woman! :001_smile:

 

Go South East - :-)

[Spy Car]

If you think CA is bad now you should have been there 40 years ago. I was born in LA. I remember many "smog alert" days where people were warned to not go outside. We lived on top of a big hill and could see a sickening layer of smog laying over the city. I have been there in recent years and have never seen anything like what we used to see, but then again I don't live there....does this still happen ("smog alert") days? It was my impression that they had cleaned it up considerably despite the much larger population now.

 

Your impression is correct. There is still work to be done, and certain areas such as the Riverside-Fontana area and the industrial areas south of the city are prone to bad air quality. But the San Fernando Valley where I live once had brown air you felt you could cut with a knife, really horrendous pollution, and now blue skies are the norm. And smog alerts (while they do happen on occasion) are rare, rather than the expected normal of yesteryear.

[Spy Car]

A bit OT: Have you seen the ad comparing the mpg of the mini-cooper with the escalade? I would've been thoroughly surprised if I hadn't recently talked with a couple owners who mentioned their mileage. I never would've guessed.

 

While I don't consider my MINI "ultra-efficient" (but what a fun car! :tongue_smilie:) I have a feeling Cadillac is stretching the truth with their Escalade Hybrid ads.

[catalinakel]

What is the industry that leads to CA pollution do you know? When I think of CA I think of natural beauty, I'm not thinking Pulaski Skyway KWIM?

 

Hi Karen.

 

Sacramento, Fresno/Madera and Bakersfield are all polluted mainly because of all of the agriculture in the Central Valley of California. This is where much of the food for much of the country is grown, and farming produces alot of particulate pollution. The valley is pretty much between the High Sierra mountain range, and a variety of coastal mountain ranges, so it doesn't often get cleared out by either rain(drought state) or wind that gets it all. When I lived in the Central Valley, I nearly developed asthma.

 

I grew up in Long Beach, less than five miles from the coast. We had pretty clean air, thanks to ocean breezes. The whole LA basin has grown tremendously since then, and there are dozens of freeways bringing millions of cars through there at least five days per week. Plus there is alot of industry which produces pollution. Lack of rain and mountains to the east keep the smog there...sadly. I don't know about China, and don't care to even go down that road.....

 

I love California, but there are some big problems there that make me somewhat thankful to be here in the desert in Southern Nevada. Wildfires and budgetary issues have been devastating in recent years. California is beautiful in many places. If you ever want to visit to see some of the beauty, just ask where. I could have you busy in California beauty for at least a month.

[Karenciavo]

Hi Karen.

 

Sacramento, Fresno/Madera and Bakersfield are all polluted mainly because of all of the agriculture in the Central Valley of California. This is where much of the food for much of the country is grown, and farming produces alot of particulate pollution.

 

Thanks Kel, I had no idea that farming produces particle pollution.

[Michelle T]

The air quality in the part of Los Angeles I live is DRASTICALLY better than it was when I was a child.

 

Then the air was often brown, and if you played too hard you'd often feel a burning pain in your throat and lungs. Really, it was that bad in the 1960s.

 

Now, despite a much larger population and more automobiles, the air quality is quite improved.

 

There are parts of the city that are still really challenged, as the local air quality is very dependent on physical conditions (especially relation to mountains and wind patterns). So parts of LA have typically have good air quality, while other parts tend to have vastly higher pollution levels.

 

But pollution city-wide is vastly better than in was 40 years ago, or even 20 years ago. Its hard to overstate how much better it is now.

 

And I think you'd be hard pressed to find an Angeleno who isn't grateful for the air-quality regulations (especially automobile exhaust mitigation measures) which have made this area dramatically more livable.

 

Bill

 

 

I was born in 1964, and I remember plenty of days in elementary school when smog alerts would be announced, and we couldn't go out to play. I haven't heard about a smog alert in years, maybe we don't even have them anymore.

 

Agreeing with Bill, it's much less smoggy now than it used to be, and if it took a lot of regulation and expense to clean up the air, then I say that's a good thing.

 

Also agreeing with others about the terrain here promoting areas of pollution. The mountain ranges and many valleys tend to channel air pollution into certain areas, and the heat can hold it all in like a lid.

MichelleT, who has lived in Los Angeles County her entire life.

[newbie]

Hi Karen.

 

Sacramento, Fresno/Madera and Bakersfield are all polluted mainly because of all of the agriculture in the Central Valley of California. This is where much of the food for much of the country is grown, and farming produces alot of particulate pollution. The valley is pretty much between the High Sierra mountain range, and a variety of coastal mountain ranges, so it doesn't often get cleared out by either rain(drought state) or wind that gets it all. When I lived in the Central Valley, I nearly developed asthma.

 

I grew up in Long Beach, less than five miles from the coast. We had pretty clean air, thanks to ocean breezes. The whole LA basin has grown tremendously since then, and there are dozens of freeways bringing millions of cars through there at least five days per week. Plus there is alot of industry which produces pollution. Lack of rain and mountains to the east keep the smog there...sadly. I don't know about China, and don't care to even go down that road.....

 

I love California, but there are some big problems there that make me somewhat thankful to be here in the desert in Southern Nevada. Wildfires and budgetary issues have been devastating in recent years. California is beautiful in many places. If you ever want to visit to see some of the beauty, just ask where. I could have you busy in California beauty for at least a month.

 

I agree, although smog on a whole has been addressed we are hard pressed to find stricter regulations on logging, farming and industry. There is a site http://oaspub.epa.gov/enviro/ef_home2.air , this is one I always use when moving to a new area. It gives all the polluting companies in the area. Its amazing.

 

I was hard pressed to find a good locale in No. Cal., I thought it was just green and beautiful. But, it is affected by farming, logging and other industries. More room, more freedom for companies to get away w/stuff.

 

Like, Melissa, I think Ca. is one big icky desert. Back east is so green and beautiful.

[Kris]

Actually, the air quality in CA is much better than when I was a kid. Emissions controls on cars here have really been helpful, especially in place like Santa Clara County where it's pretty common for pollutants to be just held in place by inversions over the valley during the hot summer months. There used to be a lot more 'kind of brown air' days here than there are now.

 

I have heard the same thing from people who have lived in the LA area for a long time.

 

The first time we went to Disneyland -- I'm thinking it was in 1971 or 1972 -- the air was so bad you couldn't be outside. It made our eyes water and you couldn't even breathe. I haven't been back down there since about 1998, but it was much *much* better then.

[catalinakel]

I agree, although smog on a whole has been addressed we are hard pressed to find stricter regulations on logging, farming and industry. There is a site http://oaspub.epa.gov/enviro/ef_home2.air , this is one I always use when moving to a new area. It gives all the polluting companies in the area. Its amazing.

 

I was hard pressed to find a good locale in No. Cal., I thought it was just green and beautiful. But, it is affected by farming, logging and other industries. More room, more freedom for companies to get away w/stuff.

 

Like, Melissa, I think Ca. is one big icky desert. Back east is so green and beautiful.

 

It's funny one's perspective on things. We moved to West Virginia from Northern California, and I was so glad to get out of there when we left three years later. It was green and beautiful, yes, but the state is completely polluted, thanks to coal and chemical industry pollution. I'll take Northern California any day...specifically Western Sonoma County or any of the south of the bay area areas in the coastal hills. The Central Valley is pretty polluted, though, but North San Diego co., and inland from there (Temecula, etc.) are also desirable. I don't know much of way north cal, but imagine there are still areas where I wouldn't mind living if we could afford it...I am now in the big desert of Southern Nevada, but the air here is mostly clear, and the weather basically temperate but for the hot summer months.

[Vida Winter]

Your impression is correct. There is still work to be done, and certain areas such as the Riverside-Fontana area and the industrial areas south of the city are prone to bad air quality. But the San Fernando Valley where I live once had brown air you felt you could cut with a knife, really horrendous pollution, and now blue skies are the norm. And smog alerts (while they do happen on occasion) are rare, rather than the expected normal of yesteryear.

 

Yes thanks for verifying this, I thought it was so. I do remember the thick, brown layer in the air - blech. I lived there from 1961-69 and that may have been some of the worst years. I think it may have been one of the reasons my family decided to move.

 

Dana

[buddhabelly]

Mainly it's geography. The pollution gets trapped over the cities because of how they lie geographically.

 

I recall seeing an old map at Rancho Los Alamitos that referred to the Los Angeles harbor area as "Bahia de Los Fumos." That is because even before the Spanish arrived, the smoke from the native American fires would just hover over the area. Los Angeles is just really prone to smog -- even without automobiles.

 

It doesn't help, though, that they destroyed this http://www.oerm.org/pages/pehistory.html to build freeways. (If you live there or have lived there, click on the map to enlarge it and you will see the amazing network of 1000 miles of streetcars all throughout the Los Angeles/Long Beach area.)

 

Julie

[Spy Car]

Yes thanks for verifying this, I thought it was so. I do remember the thick, brown layer in the air - blech. I lived there from 1961-69 and that may have been some of the worst years. I think it may have been one of the reasons my family decided to move.

 

Dana

 

I'd love to expose those who think air quality regulations are a joke to one day's worth of air pollution as it was in 1960s Los Angeles, and see if they felt the same way afterward.

 

Figuratively speaking, of course (as I'm anti-torture :D)

 

Bill

[lovemyboys]

While I don't consider my MINI "ultra-efficient" (but what a fun car! :tongue_smilie:) I have a feeling Cadillac is stretching the truth with their Escalade Hybrid ads.

 

As I'm not out shopping for any escalades, I can only relate that my mid-size domestic van gets around 20 mpg, and up to 24 mpg on trips. The couple people I know who have new minis (didn't know you had one!), say they get about 20 mpg locally, mid-20s highway -- one person was quite pleasantly surprised to get almost 28 on a trip.

 

Like I said earlier, that really surprised me that the minis, for all their appearance of great efficiency, really aren't. Perhaps even less so, if you factor in the untangibles of carrying fewer people and less cargo on any given trip, as well as safety factors.

 

One df has an "antique" so no idea what the stats are for that, but it is precious. And you can't beat the parking capabilities! ;)

[Spy Car]

As I'm not out shopping for any escalades, I can only relate that my mid-size domestic van gets around 20 mpg, and up to 24 mpg on trips. The couple people I know who have new minis (didn't know you had one!), say they get about 20 mpg locally, mid-20s highway -- one person was quite pleasantly surprised to get almost 28 on a trip.

 

Like I said earlier, that really surprised me that the minis, for all their appearance of great efficiency, really aren't. Perhaps even less so, if you factor in the untangibles of carrying fewer people and less cargo on any given trip, as well as safety factors.

 

One df has an "antique" so no idea what the stats are for that, but it is precious. And you can't beat the parking capabilities! ;)

 

Actually the safety factor is really high. BMW (the parent company) built these right. 6 air-bags, a very sophisticated frame and crumples zone technology, not to mention "active safety" (which means the ability to avoid an accident...nothing is a maneuverable as a MINI). They are suprizingly heavy (and strong) for their size.

 

But the mileage on my "supercharged" version (which is faster and thirstier than the normally aspirated version) is about 24 real word in city driving and around 28 on open freeways. So so for a small car.

 

Do I love it? OH YEA!!! :D

 

Bill

[newbie]

Actually the safety factor is really high. BMW (the parent company) built these right. 6 air-bags, a very sophisticated frame and crumples zone technology, not to mention "active safety" (which means the ability to avoid an accident...nothing is a maneuverable as a MINI). They are suprizingly heavy (and strong) for their size.

 

But the mileage on my "supercharged" version (which is faster and thirstier than the normally aspirated version) is about 24 real word in city driving and around 28 on open freeways. So so for a small car.

 

Do I love it? OH YEA!!! :D

 

Bill

 

My dh wants one, so we can use it w/the Rv. We were just talking about minis today, we were comparing to Smart Car. He said he definitely would take a mini any day.

[sassenach]

I'd love to expose those who think air quality regulations are a joke to one day's worth of air pollution as it was in 1960s Los Angeles, and see if they felt the same way afterward.

 

Figuratively speaking, of course (as I'm anti-torture :D)

 

Bill

 

Even compared to when I was a kid in the 80's, it's way, WAY better. I remember many days of indoor recess due to smog alerts. Yay for smog checks! ~even if they're a pain in the rear~

 

As for beauty, SoCal is pretty ugly. We call it the concrete jungle. (dh and I grew up there)

NorCal, on the other hand, is truly beautiful. We live on the central coast and the beauty of the area frequently takes my breath away. Towering redwoods, waves pounding against sheer cliffs, the wildlife and sea animals... But Cali is a big state, and the range from nasty to breathtaking is pretty representative of California. It's a state of extremes.

[Liz CA]

I'll take Northern California any day...specifically Western Sonoma County or any of the south of the bay area areas in the coastal hills.

 

Ahhh, Sonoma County. It was home for 12 yrs.