Wedding etiquette question ... and a little waaahhh.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Ok, so it is been 3 decades since I have been heavily involved with any wedding planning.  We have 2 weddings this fall for a niece and a nephew.  And a couple of things have come up.  

1.  I was taught that adult children that don't live with you get their own invitations.  And that they should be responsible for their own RSVPs.

For the September wedding, one invitation was sent to our home but said "family."  The save the date card already mentioned that each of my kids was invited with plus ones  When I went to RSVP, it wouldn't let me finish it until I had done so for all my adult children (2 live out of state.)  Also, it made me select the meals for them and their guests.  For the November wedding, the invitation was addressed to Mr. and Mrs (our last name.)  I went to RSVP and it has 2 of my adult children on our RSVP - the ones that don't live with us.  So that means I have to respond for them as well?  These dc are 30 and 24.  

2.  I have talked with my sister about the November wedding several times.  I don't assume, but I've asked her about how the planning is going, etc.    She was so excited that our adult nieces and nephews will be bringing their children.   And that all the bride and groom's cousins are invited.  Note the ALL.

When I looked at the RSVP, it only includes  2 of my kids but no guests.  I understand that not everyone gets a plus 1, but dd has been in a relationship for 2 years.  I get that family comes first and that great nieces and nephews who won't know anyone there rate above a boyfriend.  But it is well known in the family that dd has been in this relationship for 2 years (and how her bf's mom practically has them married off.)  (It's not a cost thing ... my sis could afford to pay for a dozen glamorous weddings.)  I'm kind of struggling with this because not only have we hardly ever seen these nieces and nephews (cousins of the groom), most of us haven't even met their children.  They live on the west coast and we live in the Midwest.  They've never made time for us when we've traveled near them nor did they try to get together with us when they traveled here.

But the gut punch is that K (my adult child with mental illness who lives with us) is not invited.  I understand them not wanting K to attend since she is a difficult person and it is 99.999% sure that she wouldn't attend.  But she didn't even get a courtesy invite.  It just makes me so sad that she isn't seen as family.  

I know that these aren't my weddings and I have no say.  So I will just attend, smile, and wish the couple well.  I just had to get that off my chest. 

[Ellie]

37 minutes ago, dirty ethel rackham said:

Ok, so it is been 3 decades since I have been heavily involved with any wedding planning.  We have 2 weddings this fall for a niece and a nephew.  And a couple of things have come up.  

1.  I was taught that adult children that don't live with you get their own invitations.  And that they should be responsible for their own RSVPs.

For the September wedding, one invitation was sent to our home but said "family."  The save the date card already mentioned that each of my kids was invited with plus ones  When I went to RSVP, it wouldn't let me finish it until I had done so for all my adult children (2 live out of state.)  Also, it made me select the meals for them and their guests.  For the November wedding, the invitation was addressed to Mr. and Mrs (our last name.)  I went to RSVP and it has 2 of my adult children on our RSVP - the ones that don't live with us.  So that means I have to respond for them as well?  These dc are 30 and 24.  

2.  I have talked with my sister about the November wedding several times.  I don't assume, but I've asked her about how the planning is going, etc.    She was so excited that our adult nieces and nephews will be bringing their children.   And that all the bride and groom's cousins are invited.  Note the ALL.

When I looked at the RSVP, it only includes  2 of my kids but no guests.  I understand that not everyone gets a plus 1, but dd has been in a relationship for 2 years.  I get that family comes first and that great nieces and nephews who won't know anyone there rate above a boyfriend.  But it is well known in the family that dd has been in this relationship for 2 years (and how her bf's mom practically has them married off.)  (It's not a cost thing ... my sis could afford to pay for a dozen glamorous weddings.)  I'm kind of struggling with this because not only have we hardly ever seen these nieces and nephews (cousins of the groom), most of us haven't even met their children.  They live on the west coast and we live in the Midwest.  They've never made time for us when we've traveled near them nor did they try to get together with us when they traveled here.

But the gut punch is that K (my adult child with mental illness who lives with us) is not invited.  I understand them not wanting K to attend since she is a difficult person and it is 99.999% sure that she wouldn't attend.  But she didn't even get a courtesy invite.  It just makes me so sad that she isn't seen as family.  

I know that these aren't my weddings and I have no say.  So I will just attend, smile, and wish the couple well.  I just had to get that off my chest. 

1. Was the RSVP online only? No written RSVP?

Yes, you are correct that adults children who don't live with you (or even if they do) get their own invitations. Miss Manners doesn't approve of "+ one;" she thinks that if the happy bride/groom cares enough she/he would include the name of the +one and send that person an invitation. Lacking that, there's no reason that an adult must attend with a +one. It is perfectly acceptable to attend a wedding by oneself. She also doesn't approve of "save-the-date" cards. Ditto "And Family" written on the envelope. Which isn't the question; sorry. 🙂 Can you actually call the September wedding people and tell them that you can't possibly RSVP for adult people (whether they live with you or not), so can that information be sent to them.

2. Your dd's boy friend should get his own invitation. As should your dd and any other adult person related to you and living in your home. It sucks that K was not invited. I'm sorry. 😞 

[Bambam]

I'm so sorry. 
I've personally seen several weddings were folks either don't know or don't care about traditional etiquette. 
But sending invites for your oldest kids to you when they don't live with you? That's weird. Even if you didn't have their addresses, you could text or call parent and ask for those addresses. Five minutes, that is all the effort it would take to track down their address. 
And not inviting one kid? That's rude. 

You are a bigger person than I am. I'm not sure I could be civil to people who ignored one of my kids. 

[Frances]

Nm

Edited August 7 by Frances

[Tenaj]

I would just ask.  We have had a couple of confusing wedding invites lately.  The first one came to my husband and I and "family" which I assumed meant my kids that still live with me.  Then I realized that none of my adult kids had received invites.  I texted my sil and she laughed and said they had tried to keep costs down and that the invite was for my whole clan.  Trying to figure out the RSVP was hilarious 😂 since we have eight kids, two married and six grandchildren and the invite covered all of us.

I

[Hyacinth]

Etiquette norms aren’t very norm these days. 

Can you call and just ask? “I don’t want to step on toes or create confusion for anyone so I’m calling to confirm. Who, exactly, is included in this invitation?” 

[HomeAgain]

It's messed up not to invite your one kid.  Period.

For the inviting your adult ds on your invite, they probably went the easy route.  Weddings are stressful and this was probably a way to cut out a little of the stress, by not hunting down more addresses.

Regardless of relationship status, a host is not obligated to invite SOs they don't know.  It would not offend dh or I in the least to get an invite that was just for one of us, and that's an important lesson for young people to understand as well.  Couples are not a package deal, no matter how long they've been together.

[almondbutterandjelly]

Please don't be hurt or offended by the wedding invitation situation.  What is that saying, don't assume ill intent when ignorance or stupidity is a good explanation?  I promise they aren't sitting around trying to figure out who to exclude.  When I was in my best friend's wedding, the grandmother of the groom and also my own parents did not get invitations.  They were very hurt.  When the bride found out, she issued invitations post-haste.  Please talk to your sister or the bride or the groom.  I'm sure they were just in git'er done mode when doing the invitations and overlooked things/people.  

[saraha]

I’m sorry about K, that’s just not nice.

In dh’s family, up until probably the very near future, most invitations went to the family heads (fil and his brothers) that also included all of the heads children and grandchildren unless otherwise specified, if that makes sense. So for the last 25 years I’ve been married to this family, when it pertains to dh’s dad’s family, any baby shower, wedding, graduation invites went to him with all of us listed- Sil dh and children, Bil dw and children, Dh Saraha and children and they would rsvp for all of us. 
They are weird.

The three times anyone else has invited us to things, we got our own invitation, but my grown single children were listed on our invitation, no plus one

Edited August 6 by saraha
Why did autocorrect change rsvp to taco?

[QueenCat]

Adult children should receive their own invite. Whether they live with you or not.

It's unconscionable for your daughter to not be invited. If my adult son, who has autism, was excluded when all the others were invited, I would not go. The wedding party pretty much has said they are not acceptable. Whether or not he would have gone if invited would have no bearing on this. You don't get to treat my kid this way. 

[wintermom]

I haven't received a wedding invitation in about a decade, and that was my dh's youngest sister. Any extended family weddings have been few, and they have been destination weddings with very few attendees or during COVID times with an even smaller list of attendees. I wouldn't know what to expect the an invitation these days. If it was a sibling's children and the invitation was unclear or that significant people were left out, I'd likely just pick up the phone and ask my sibling directly. It may be an awkward converstion, but at least it would clarify things. 

So sorry that you're dealing with this.  Sometimes the emotions for big family events often get amplified. And sometime we find out stuff we didn't even know existed, or you hear about things that you had no idea was happening in the background.

[JennyD]

2 hours ago, Hyacinth said:

Etiquette norms aren’t very norm these days. 

Can you call and just ask? “I don’t want to step on toes or create confusion for anyone so I’m calling to confirm. Who, exactly, is included in this invitation?” 

I agree with this.  We were invited to a wedding last year and the invitation was just to DH and myself, not our teenage kids.  Given our relationship with the couple and the nature of the wedding, I was shocked that the kids weren't invited, but I figured that's just how it was.  DH, OTOH, was positive that there was been some sort of mistake, so he reached out to the groom to check.  Turns out he was right -- it was a total oversight, and in fact once the couple started double-checking they realized that they had messed up some other invitations as well.  

 

[kbutton]

7 hours ago, Hyacinth said:

Etiquette norms aren’t very norm these days. 

Can you call and just ask? “I don’t want to step on toes or create confusion for anyone so I’m calling to confirm. Who, exactly, is included in this invitation?” 

I would do this because they weren’t consistent between the Save the Date announcement and actual invitations/RSVPs, and the site used for RSVPs didn’t allow flexible response options for fully independent adults.

You can play dumb and see what comes up.

And yes, all of this ranges from inconvenient and annoying to rude.

[Clarita]

We had a large wedding there were definitely people who were offended that certain people weren't invited to the wedding. I mean you have to draw the line somewhere. (I totally understand that it hurts.) We also didn't invite entire families because head count and also the venue had an unsecured pool so we didn't want children there for safety. Plus ones and children who weren't technically invited came anyways so if you want to stick it to them you can always do that. To be honest there isn't a lot the host can do about it.

On the invitation front, they can get expensive. I know they don't have to be but some people chose that route. When I priced it out 10+ years ago it was $3.50 per invitation to be printed out, if I wanted someone else to hand calligraphy the address is at least $1.50 per envelope, also a bit more than a forever stamp to mail each invitation. 

Since I actually had to look up all the etiquette to western weddings. I have to say there are A LOT and everyone has got an opinion on it and think their list is the definitive list.

Not saying you can't be mad and miffed at your niece and nephew, just providing an alternative view point. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

22 hours ago, Ellie said:

1. Was the RSVP online only? No written RSVP?

Yes, you are correct that adults children who don't live with you (or even if they do) get their own invitations. Miss Manners doesn't approve of "+ one;" she thinks that if the happy bride/groom cares enough she/he would include the name of the +one and send that person an invitation. Lacking that, there's no reason that an adult must attend with a +one. It is perfectly acceptable to attend a wedding by oneself. She also doesn't approve of "save-the-date" cards. Ditto "And Family" written on the envelope. Which isn't the question; sorry. 🙂 Can you actually call the September wedding people and tell them that you can't possibly RSVP for adult people (whether they live with you or not), so can that information be sent to them.

2. Your dd's boy friend should get his own invitation. As should your dd and any other adult person related to you and living in your home. It sucks that K was not invited. I'm sorry. 😞 

Thanks for the confirmation on what I thought on how the invitations should be addressed.  

The RSVP is online for both weddings.  When we went to their wedding websites and put in my name, my husband and kids names were individually listed under one RSVP.  

For the September wedding, all of my kids were invited plus guest.  I had to accept or decline everyone and then put in the meal preferences for each person who was attending.  The RSVP wasn't complete without all of these things done.  I already did it, even though it was inconvenient.  

For the other wedding, I haven't tried to respond ... I've just been too hurt.  

I don't believe that everyone needs a plus one.  My oldest is attending without a plus one. But dd has been in this relationship for almost as long as the bride and groom and most etiquette things I have read advise including someone from a long-term relationship.  

[dirty ethel rackham]

17 hours ago, Bambam said:

I'm so sorry. 
I've personally seen several weddings were folks either don't know or don't care about traditional etiquette. 
But sending invites for your oldest kids to you when they don't live with you? That's weird. Even if you didn't have their addresses, you could text or call parent and ask for those addresses. Five minutes, that is all the effort it would take to track down their address. 
And not inviting one kid? That's rude. 

You are a bigger person than I am. I'm not sure I could be civil to people who ignored one of my kids. 

I'm surprised at both of these not knowing these etiquette rules, knowing their parents.    Like they couldn't send a text (or ask their parents to text us for the addresses.)  Or even text my kids. 

I do get why K wasn't invited ... she has acted sort of scary weird at the last couple of family events that she attempted to attend.  And there is history of some nasty online exchanges between this kid and other family members when she came out as trans 10 years ago.  I think K expected a hostile reaction and assumed hostility in every response.  And some of my family reacted in a bigoted way.  And some of my family members' responses were  misunderstood by K - which is part of the mental illness - a skewed thinking pattern.   

But not getting a heads up from my sister or even a discussion ... it's like she was erased.  

 

I love my kid, but I don't always enjoy being around her, sad as that is to say.  Mental illness sucks!

[dirty ethel rackham]

16 hours ago, Frances said:

I’d actually go ahead ask if your daughter can bring her significant other. I’ve seen too many times where invitations are messed up. For instance, when one of my husband’s cousins got married, our college aged son was not included on our invite but the older college age daughter of his sister was included on theirs. It was just an oversight because the bride handling the invites didn’t know any of us and something had gotten lost/mixed up along the way. Recently, my son and his spouse got a save the date card for his cousin’s wedding, but no invite. They weren’t planning to attend, but the error was only discovered when we were asked about their RSVP.

I do find it strange that you had to RSVP for everyone, but maybe they just lump you all together as the aunt/uncle/cousins they don’t know well. And it absolutely stinks that K was excluded. We’re currently traveling for a family wedding for a niece we don’t know well (despite our best efforts), but to our surprise are being treated very much like family and invited to all of the extra wedding events (rehearsal dinner, immediate family welcome dinner, etc) and were told we had to stay in the wedding town for three nights. Families are just strange.

I would rather have my daughter do it.  That is why I wish she had gotten her own invite.  I think it was lazy.  It's not like my sister couldn't have just texted me.  

[dirty ethel rackham]

16 hours ago, Tenaj said:

I would just ask.  We have had a couple of confusing wedding invites lately.  The first one came to my husband and I and "family" which I assumed meant my kids that still live with me.  Then I realized that none of my adult kids had received invites.  I texted my sil and she laughed and said they had tried to keep costs down and that the invite was for my whole clan.  Trying to figure out the RSVP was hilarious 😂 since we have eight kids, two married and six grandchildren and the invite covered all of us.

I

That does sound like a mess.  

I am sure that the invitations were as they intended.  On their wedding website, on my RSVP page, it lists them by name. I guess I don't see the point of spending tons of money on expensive invitations and then cheap out by not sending them to adults.  

[dirty ethel rackham]

15 hours ago, Hyacinth said:

Etiquette norms aren’t very norm these days. 

Can you call and just ask? “I don’t want to step on toes or create confusion for anyone so I’m calling to confirm. Who, exactly, is included in this invitation?” 

That would be the normal thing.  But I am avoiding the whole awkward hurtful convo about why my kid just isn't family anymore.  I think I my have dd call my sis herself about her boyfriend if that is important to her.  

[dirty ethel rackham]

15 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

It's messed up not to invite your one kid.  Period.

For the inviting your adult ds on your invite, they probably went the easy route.  Weddings are stressful and this was probably a way to cut out a little of the stress, by not hunting down more addresses.

Regardless of relationship status, a host is not obligated to invite SOs they don't know.  It would not offend dh or I in the least to get an invite that was just for one of us, and that's an important lesson for young people to understand as well.  Couples are not a package deal, no matter how long they've been together.

Knowing my sister and her take charge attention to detail, it's weird that they chose to do it this way.  Even though she is mother of the groom, she has been very involved in the planning process.  

I do get that couples aren't always a package deal.  But my sis making a big deal about inviting our niece and nephew and their kids (early elementary age who have never met most of the family) ... It's just weird.  Like I mentioned above, it's not like this niece and nephew have made having a relationship with some of us a priority despite our efforts. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

8 hours ago, kbutton said:

I would do this because they weren’t consistent between the Save the Date announcement and actual invitations/RSVPs, and the site used for RSVPs didn’t allow flexible response options for fully independent adults.

You can play dumb and see what comes up.

And yes, all of this ranges from inconvenient and annoying to rude.

The Save the Date  card that mentioned my kids getting a plus one was consistent with their invitation ... they did include the plus ones on the RSVP page.  

The other Save the Date card ... I don't remember how it was addressed, whether it was addressed to Mr and Mrs or if it said Family.  There was nothing on the card about who was invited.  

[dirty ethel rackham]

Thanks for all your input.  I really should be in bed, just like I really should not have tried to RSVP yesterday.  But instead of sleeping, I'm still kind of stewing over this.

My husband pointed out to me that this reflects a pattern with my family.  My dd is definitely the favorite as far as my family is concerned.  She is the most "normal" meaning she is more outgoing, and was just so darn cute.    I realized with a huge pang of guilt that I didn't fully realize how this affected her siblings.

My older  kids were adorably nerdy kids, until they got bigger and the nerdiness was no longer considered adorable. They were largely ignored, partly because of some age gaps with their older cousins and my siblings were in the "happy my kids are more independent so I can drink and not have to parent" phase.  And part of it was because my family just considered me to be weird.   (I have to admit ... I did have a super granola crunchy phase and I did commit the unforgivable sin of homeschooling, which caused my kids to be "different.")

Over the years, there were the back-handed compliments.  "I can't believe how "normal" <youngest dd> is for being homeschooled."  "I'm shocked to learn that <oldest kid> actually has friends and can converse with people. (this one happened just recently when ds30 stopped in to see them as he was passing through and they had a nice visit. It was my BIL who simply cannot make a comment about my family without including an ignorant dig ... he's the male version of "bless her heart!" )

I'm not sure I can put into words how terribly sad I am that K doesn't have much family or people she can count on.  I'm terrified of how things will be for her when dh and I are gone (provided she outlives us, which is another whole pandora's box of pain and trauma.) When she started to get sick, it's like the kid we knew and loved died and was replaced by this other person who is very difficult. People thought my grief was over losing my "son", but it wasn't her being trans, it was the mental illness altering her personality.   I know she is suffering every day, but she is like a wounded animal.  Loving a porcupine with a never ending supply of quills.  

I have no idea if this makes any sense.  I am very sleep deprived and should have gone to bed hours ago.  Thanks for letting me pour my heart out.  I don't have many people IRL to talk to.  

[Innisfree]

Sending lots of hugs. I wish you had a more understanding family, and I wish K didn’t have mental illness. Just— lots of hugs. Hope you got some sleep.

[Harriet Vane]

Warm hugs for you, friend. I have seen you mourn for years—both yearning for coziness with relatives who aren’t there for you and yearning for K’s heart and stability. Your pain is valid. 

[saraha]

I’m so very sorry. I hope you were able to get some rest. I’m sorry that something that was supposed to be fun and happy has caused you so much grief and the people that are supposed to love you hurt you. I’m sorry for all the things. (((Ethel)))

[Scarlett]

10 hours ago, dirty ethel rackham said:

I'm surprised at both of these not knowing these etiquette rules, knowing their parents.    Like they couldn't send a text (or ask their parents to text us for the addresses.)  Or even text my kids. 

I do get why K wasn't invited ... she has acted sort of scary weird at the last couple of family events that she attempted to attend.  And there is history of some nasty online exchanges between this kid and other family members when she came out as trans 10 years ago.  I think K expected a hostile reaction and assumed hostility in every response.  And some of my family reacted in a bigoted way.  And some of my family members' responses were  misunderstood by K - which is part of the mental illness - a skewed thinking pattern.   

But not getting a heads up from my sister or even a discussion ... it's like she was erased.  

 

I love my kid, but I don't always enjoy being around her, sad as that is to say.  Mental illness sucks!

It is sad about K.  And with that history I think it might be best to just let it go.  As for your dd’s boyfriend……I also think I would let your dd handle that.  She could call her cousin and ask about it which I know is not proper etiquette but looks like a lot of improper etiquette all around.  
 

I mostly feel sad about K.  It is a heartbreaking situation.  

[teachermom2834]

Ugh. Calling to ask if a boyfriend is invited when they clearly are not included on the invitation feels so cringe and so rude BUT etiquette has gone so out the window it feels like the lesser evil than not bringing someone that very well may have been supposed to be included.

This is what etiquette is for- not to be stuffy and prim and proper and judgy- it is actually to make people comfortable. People like to feel like tossing off etiquette and norms is freeing and relaxed but it really makes people more uncomfortable because no one knows what to do. Just ugh all the way around.

[Faith-manor]

Lots of hugs to you! I hope you can rest today.