Do you find it hard to get an audience with your teen?

[SKL]

One of my kids has nearly zero patience for any kind of conversation with me (or, as far as I know, any other adult).

I am not big on talking either, but I check in each day, e.g., "how was school, do you have homework, how are your classes going" "how are those new contacts working for you" "did you get any feedback on your applications" "what do you want to eat for dinner" type stuff.  God forbid I should push it further such as "are there any clothes you're ready to donate" or "what are we going to do with this stack of old school notebooks?"

The other day, my kid said she needed a binder with dividers, so I went into my stash and found a few options and brought them to her room.  That made her super uncomfortable.  She really doesn't like me in her room when she's there.  Even to quickly put away or gather laundry.  She hears my footsteps coming down the hall and pre-emptively warns me that she's changing (nobody changes that often).

ETA she is even less welcoming of more open-ended topics that most would consider "actual conversation."  I just get this "are you done with me yet" vibe.  Also ... car time is over as the kids drive themselves now.  Meals ... she does her own thing and goes upstairs when others enter the kitchen.  We do have the added dynamic of additional unrelated adults in the house, so common areas aren't necessarily good for conversation.

Granted, she has OCD, so maybe that plays a role.  It gets old though.  We do need to discuss some things, and it's really annoying to be constantly pushed away.  So I wonder - is this halfway normal for a 16yo girl?  What do you do about it - set a formal appointment time?  😛

My other 16yo isn't usually prickly like this.  She likes Mom attention in moderation.  😛

Edited September 19, 2023 by SKL

[Melissa in Australia]

My experience is mostly with boys. They seem to get very moody and completely disappear into their room at around 13  and emerge at around 16. Any question gets either one of these 4 answered yeah, nah, donno, whatdoyouwant said as one word. 

[regentrude]

Those don't seem to be great conversation starters and wouldn't have enticed ds to talk (dd was talkative), but he'd talk about things that were important to *him*. We had great conversations in the car and during meals, but not so much if I wanted to talk about stuff like you mentioned. 

Eta: most of your questions would have been perceived as nagging, and ds was very allergic to it. 

Introvert ds didn't like me in his room and was impatient for me to get out. Better convo locations were dining table or car.

Edited September 19, 2023 by regentrude

[prairiewindmomma]

Of mine, two of my teens are chatty and one isn’t. Oldest wasn’t either. I have good, close relationships with all of them.

1. I noticed almost all of your convo examples are task related. Do you talk about stuff not related to doing a thing/making a report?

2. If doing follow up maintenance questioning needs to happen, have you tried warning her in advance? (Hey, let’s find some time this weekend to do xyz… Look at your schedule and text me when works well for you.)

3. If she finds your conversation style confrontational, is she more responsive to texting?

4. Do you spend time with her in friend mode > mom mode? 

[prairiewindmomma]

Also, at 16, I would stop (mostly) with the reminders…even for a kid with ADHD/EF issues. If she forgets to charge her Chromebook, the battery will die. That’s a livable consequence. If you are still having to remind her, your words haven’t taught her to develop the habit. Let the natural, livable consequences do the teaching while she is still under your roof. Otherwise you are potentially setting her up for a rough first semester when she is having to manage everything all at once on her own.

16 is almost adult. Let up a bit on the controllers.

[SKL]

Regarding more open ended conversation ... it's not that I don't try ... but she is even less welcoming of topics that most would consider "actual conversation."  I just get this "are you done with me yet (please)" vibe.  Also ... car time is over as the kids drive themselves now.  Meals ... she does her own thing and goes upstairs when others enter the kitchen.  We do have the added dynamic of additional unrelated adults in the house, so common areas aren't necessarily good for conversation.

Maybe 2x per month, she gets in a talkative mood and will go on and on and show some depth etc.  But the rest of the time, forget it.

[SKL]

31 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Of mine, two of my teens are chatty and one isn’t. Oldest wasn’t either. I have good, close relationships with all of them.

1. I noticed almost all of your convo examples are task related. Do you talk about stuff not related to doing a thing/making a report?

2. If doing follow up maintenance questioning needs to happen, have you tried warning her in advance? (Hey, let’s find some time this weekend to do xyz… Look at your schedule and text me when works well for you.)

3. If she finds your conversation style confrontational, is she more responsive to texting?

4. Do you spend time with her in friend mode > mom mode? 

I gave examples of questions I think should be quick and simple, but somehow these aren't simple enough.  Even "goodnight" feels pushed away.

I agree that 16 is old for many reminders, but I also feel like a mom has to say something to her kid each day.  Normally I ask a couple basic questions and then, "is there anything else I should know about?"

When I said there are things we need to talk about, I mean stuff about choices she needs to make for her present and future happiness.  She gets so annoyed by all of it.  (I guess it's probably more stress than annoyance sometimes, but still.)

[Frances]

Is one family meal together most days (breakfast or lunch) a possibility at all? That, the car, and grocery shopping were the three best places to connect with my son when he was a teen. My son is almost thirty now and still tells me how thankful he is that we ate most of our meals together every day, but almost always dinner. We still enjoy wonderful dinners full of conversation and laughter with him (and now his spouse) when we get together.

[SKL]

Some other examples of things she doesn't like me asking/saying:

• Is your boyfriend planning to come for ___?  (Boyfriend = houseguest if he comes, since he lives 3 hours away.)
• How her physical issues are being helped/affected by medications etc.
• Whether or not she'd like to participate in xyz activity.
• Anything about her job that can't be answered with "fine."
• What would you like for your birthday?
• Would you rather do xyz meeting on date A or date B?
• You have a vision appointment Wednesday after school.

[prairiewindmomma]

From what you describe, it does sound like she’s pushing you away. Have you tried the whole, “Hey, I feel like there is some distance between us and I am sorry that you feel like you’ve had to put it there. I love you and you are so important to me. I want to work on this so you feel like you can invite me back in. What do you suggest?” Then sit, listen, and don’t get defensive.

[Frances]

Just now, SKL said:

Some other examples of things she doesn't like me asking/saying:

• Is your boyfriend planning to come for ___?  (Boyfriend = houseguest if he comes, since he lives 3 hours away.)
• How her physical issues are being helped/affected by medications etc.
• Whether or not she'd like to participate in xyz activity.
• Anything about her job that can't be answered with "fine."
• What would you like for your birthday?
• Would you rather do xyz meeting on date A or date B?
• You have a vision appointment Wednesday after school.

Is she open to answering such questions or being told such info via text with possibly the exception of number two? 

[prairiewindmomma]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

Some other examples of things she doesn't like me asking/saying:

• Is your boyfriend planning to come for ___?  (Boyfriend = houseguest if he comes, since he lives 3 hours away.)
• How her physical issues are being helped/affected by medications etc.
• Whether or not she'd like to participate in xyz activity.
• Anything about her job that can't be answered with "fine."
• What would you like for your birthday?
• Would you rather do xyz meeting on date A or date B?
• You have a vision appointment Wednesday after school.

All of that can feel like cross examination to an anxious kid.

[SKL]

Just now, prairiewindmomma said:

From what you describe, it does sound like she’s pushing you away. Have you tried the whole, “Hey, I feel like there is some distance between us and I am sorry that you feel like you’ve had to put it there. I love you and you are so important to me. I want to work on this so you feel like you can invite me back in. What do you suggest?” Then sit, listen, and don’t get defensive.

Yeah, I've tried that.  It's excruciatingly annoying.  😛

She isn't the "I hate you mom" type of teen.  She just doesn't want to talk.

[SKL]

Just now, Frances said:

Is she open to answering such questions or being told such info via text with possibly the exception of number two? 

Texts are also annoying.  😛  She's not a teen who spends a lot of time communicating via iphone.

[SKL]

1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

All of that can feel like cross examination to an anxious kid.

OK but then what can one talk about?  I mean there don't seem to be any good options except "here's $50, go spend it."  😛

[SKL]

Well, writing this out has made me consider that a lot of this is probably her anxiety talking.  So I need to figure out how to work around that.  (PS she won't take her meds so ....)

Edited September 19, 2023 by SKL

[regentrude]

9 minutes ago, SKL said:

OK but then what can one talk about?  I mean there don't seem to be any good options except "here's $50, go spend it."  😛

What interests her? What is she excited about and wants to share? For my ds, it was martial arts. But he would also participate in general family conversations about science, politics, books, debate with us... I don't get the "a mom has to say something to the kid per day" - don't you have normal family conversations at shared meals? Just talk to each other without an agenda of questioning?

I agree with pp that interrogation doesn't equal conversation. 

Eta: we enjoyed the teen years when they could talk with us like adults about adult topics. They responded to being treated like peers.

Edited September 19, 2023 by regentrude

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

What interests her? What is she excited about and wants to share? For my ds, it was martial arts. But he would also participate in general family conversations about science, politics, books, debate with us... I don't get the "a mom has to say something to the kid per day" - don't you have normal family conversations at shared meals? 

I agree with pp that interrogation doesn't equal conversation. 

No we don't have normal family conversations at shared meals.  Or if we do, she doesn't usually participate.  Like I said, maybe 2x per month.

There seems to be no topic that is comfortable the other 99% of the time.  Literally no topic.

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

No we don't have normal family conversations at shared meals.  Or if we do, she doesn't usually participate.  Like I said, maybe 2x per month.

There seems to be no topic that is comfortable the other 99% of the time.  Literally no topic.

Is she more talkative when her friends are participating in the meal? I found family meals that included ds' friends a wonderful way to hear more from him.

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Is she more talkative when her friends are participating in the meal? I found family meals that included ds' friends a wonderful way to hear more from him.

We do like to invite their friends for meals, but she still stays mostly quiet, and the conversation drains her.  It doesn't give me the chance to talk to her about "important things" relating to her life - things that don't figure into most friend conversations.

Edited September 19, 2023 by SKL

[prairiewindmomma]

Is she avoiding the big conversations because she is anxious about the future? 

[SKL]

Just now, prairiewindmomma said:

Is she avoiding the big conversations because she is anxious about the future? 

The more I think about it, that is probably it ... so I need to figure out how to deal with that.

[prairiewindmomma]

If she is fighting to get through the day currently (unmedicated OCD and anxiety), she may have no bandwidth for anything else. If convos with you end with a task list or questions about future things that overwhelm her, I could see her hiding out to avoid the anxiety producing convo.

[prairiewindmomma]

Sorry, we typed at the same time.

[SKL]

Just now, prairiewindmomma said:

If she is fighting to get through the day currently (unmedicated OCD and anxiety), she may have no bandwidth for anything else. If convos with you end with a task list or questions about future things that overwhelm her, I could see her hiding out to avoid the anxiety producing convo.

Literally I keep my so-called "interrogation" to less than 10 words per evening.  It's not that scary.  I just don't think total silence is healthy.

[prairiewindmomma]

We have had weeks here where I say, “We don’t need to talk, I just want to see you because I love you” and I hand over chocolate and we both eat some and I lay on their bed for ten minutes and then give them a hug and go. Intent matters.

 

[prairiewindmomma]

Again, we typed over each other. Sorry!

[SKL]

How to get her to take her meds is a whole other issue.  They really do help if she'll take them ....

She was graduated from therapy in the summer.  I wasn't totally thrilled about that, but her therapist was changing jobs anyway, and my kid thinks she doesn't need any more therapy ....

[SKL]

1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

We have had weeks here where I say, “We don’t need to talk, I just want to see you because I love you” and I hand over chocolate and we both eat some and I lay on their bed for ten minutes and then give them a hug and go. Intent matters.

 

You're allowed on their bed.  I haven't been allowed on my kid's bed for years.  I'm not allowed to touch her either.  She doesn't do hugs.  Love language is super cringey.

[prairiewindmomma]

If she won’t go to therapy, I think I’d be inclined to go by myself just to have someone to bounce ideas off of. You’re coming up on the hard edge of adulthood and if she is not self managing well, I think you might find additional guidance, or at least a safe venting place, helpful. Hugs! It sounds like you are in a rough spot as a parent.
 

[bookbard]

Just wanted to say that she sounds a bit like my kid (age 12) who is anxious too. Really doesn't want me 'sticking my nose in her business' etc. Will discuss, however, the difference between an orc and an ogre. Will see how it goes as she gets older though. 

[mathnerd]

She sounds anxious and tired. How is her sleep schedule and is she having trouble balancing work and school? It could be that she is physically exhausted.

[Eos]

I'm sorry, this must be exhausting.  When I hit walls with my teens I would try taking a total detour. I found it weirdly similar to when they were toddlers and working out how to navigate a tantrum.  For one of mine, tantrums could be ended by snuggling and turning toward laughter, but one I would have to look away, pretend not to see, stay close by, look at my own work.

So if it was my teen doing this (I had one who did) I would ask no more parenting-type questions at all, other than what I would need to make plans, and move on to the softest of softballs said while in motion so she doesn't think you are focusing on her too much.  "Wow, I like that blouse," then walk away.  "Do you want to play yatzee/watch this one show over dinner?" Then quick turn back to making dinner and choose a show that's kinda adult-ish/funny/snarky. "Is my outfit cash or trash?  I have to be at a meeting with some cranky people" then keep moving.  

For the necessary parenting questions or reminders I would say them while literally looking away after a quick smile.  Eventually - two years - my teen who was like this calmed down enough to engage again.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Eos

[teachermom2834]

I haven’t had this exact experience but I did have one teen that was more annoyed by me all the time than the others. I don’t have much advice other than what I did for the things that had to be discussed so he could move on with his life (college applications- can’t get out and away from me and live your fabulous life without them) is I would set an appointment. Like “ we need to discuss xyz before whatever date and time. When can we set an appointment for that?” 
 

That worked here but he might have been more compliant than what you are describing. 

[Lecka]

My oldest usually does not do shared meals.  There are issues around this and it’s just not a hill to die on.  
 

Anyway, asking about video games or if he’s seen anything funny on YouTube or Instagram often will be something he will talk about.  Showing me something funny on the Internet can be pretty low-key and low pressure.  
 

He will usually answer the question if I ask if he wants any treat from the store.  
 

He will often go with me to get fries and a shake.  
 

While I also want to get things done, I have found that I have to really limit that side of myself, because it harms my relationship with this son.  The relationship is the priority.  Then out of all the things I would like to ask, I consciously limit it to only the very top things.  
 

If drawing a comparison to your situation, basically I only prioritized as “top” the mental health concerns.  That’s all I got.  I didn’t get more.  That was most important.  To even get that, I put a lot of effort in on relationship and still got rebuffed a lot, and still had to look for the right time to mention anything.  
 

I have literally told myself “okay, I brought x up once, now I need to make myself not bring it up for literally one month (or longer).”  
 

I would be very concerned about not treating with medication.  That would be “the big unspoken thing” here.

 

I have not had this situation, but I have tried very hard to say things like, I disagree but I respect your decision.  Or, my understanding is that some people who choose x choose it for x reason.  Is that what is going on with you?  And remind that I am not a mind reader, I really don’t know, I’m really asking because I don’t know.  And again I would only say anything like that very limited and at what would seem like a good time.  
 

A lot of my issue is that while I don’t think of myself as this judgmental, inflexible person, that is how I come across to this child.  He knows my thoughts and opinions on a lot of things and he thinks I have strong opinions and that I am hard to please.  
 

I would say — he has thought that since 6th grade, in a big way.  
 

There is some truth to it, although I do not think it is fair.  
 

But, I have been consciously trying to respond to that for years.

 

At the same time, he is very aware of what I think and of how I think things should be done.  He is already very aware; there is not that much need to tell him.  If I tell him, he doesn’t take it as me sharing information, he takes it as criticism.  
 

However he has usually been willing to engage with me about a funny story about the dogs, a cute picture of the dogs, a video game, or getting some special food for him.  
 

So — it’s hard for me to not bring up 1,000 things I would like to bring up.  But it’s one of those things where it’s “how’s that working out for you, Lecka?”  Well!  Not working very well.  
 

 

[Teaching3bears]

I can relate to what you are saying.  My son is a lot like that and I have not found a magic solution though things have gotten better this school year.  I think some of it has to do with fatigue and needing alone time when he is tired and some of it has to do with being partly grown up and partly still a kid who does not want to grow up yet.  It seems like there is part of him that is stuck as a silly 13-year old.   I am trying to be a really good listener when he comes to me rather than always imposing myself on him.  This makes it really hard to discuss anything practical.  

[HomeAgain]

There are some years in my kids' lives where it's mostly me talking.

Mostly at this age I have to remember that I need to add in more trust.  My motto is "if you're taking care of your $h!t, I'm not going to give you $h!t."  I wait for info to come to me, text when I need a kid to do something, and give space.  I do my best to invite them in:

-we've started doing music trivia over dinner (thank you, Youtube)

-I leave stupid notes around (like Yogi Berra-isms in his practice bag)

-I text.  Even if he's sitting next to me.  Especially if he's sitting next to me. 😄

-I share my day without expectations

-I make suggestions/compromises, not questions. (On noticing an overfull hamper: "hey, if you want to get a load of laundry in, I'll switch it over for you while you're at school").  I'm not going to chase that up.

-I stick to a family calendar.  If it's not there, it's not my concern.  Anyone can write on it and it's checked daily.

 

Eventually they come around, and the times I do have to nag are fewer but more important.  DS13 this year is getting an average of 7 hours of sleep 5 nights a week.  He's tired, he's grumpy, and his brain is working slower.  I know he's getting bombarded with requests from all the adults in his life and I just want to take a step back and let him be a little bit less sometimes.  This morning he zombied his way through breakfast, chores, packing for school...and had a death glare for anyone who wanted to be cheerful or nice.  So I texted him: "dude. Teeth. Odorize."  Which is shorthand for "I love you, make sure you have time to brush and put on deodorant!"  No words spoken, but before he left I got a gift of speech: "Hey, I'll make sure I have everything taken care of before you get home today."  Which is his code for "I love you, thanks for running ragged on Tuesdays for me while doing your own school."

😄

It's like learning a whole new way to communicate, but I'll say my oldest came around and was incredibly pleasant.  He's still an awesome adult, lol, but he had a few years of being silent and moody as a teen, too.

[regentrude]

Another thought: if she's a strong introvert, she may be what we call "peopled out". A day in school plus activities may have drained her capacity for interaction. I have seen that with ds ( who didn't even have to go to ps - just interacting with people tired him out and he preferred to withdraw into his room)

Is it better during breaks when she had a lot of downtime with no people and no activities? Does she get several hours of alone time each day, which she may need?

[Lecka]

I am also someone where I do believe, that there is a right way and a wrong way to do things, and it’s so simple and obvious to just do things the right way.

 

But, that leads my son to feel preemptively rejected if he knows there’s something that I would disapprove of or disagree about.  I don’t even have to do or say anything.  He just fills in all these blanks in his head.  
 

I have really made an effort to change this, and for known issues I have tried to make an effort to be more curious and to have more of an attitude of — I can’t know another person’s experiences to really know what would be better.  I can’t know another person’s experiences to know why something isn’t the choice that person makes.  
 

And, I do feel that way.

 

The thing is, for the bigger issues where I think my son is just being stubborn, could just do x, it’s so easy and obvious, etc, I “do” think that to some degree.

 

And then I need to change that to some extent, to actually be more open to thinking — that he can make a decision because it’s his life.

 

And then there is the fact that even if I’m trying to do this, and actually doing it, in his mind he may still think I hold my previous strong, judgmental opinion.  
 

Anyway, I have really toned it down, I have really worked to keep my mouth shut.  
 

I don’t think it’s fair, but I do think, that this is a real issue, and that I have needed to change on my side.  
 

I have also found out the hard way, what some intensely personal things are that I didn’t realize were at an “identity” level.  Things that I did not think were such a big deal but actually really were a big deal.  
 

We don’t have a direct correspondence, but it would be medication.  He would just know that I thought it would be so easy and obvious to take it, and just not understand why “anyone” would not, because to me it would just be so basic and obvious.  But then to him it would be this intensely personal thing that he would ideally really need for his parents to understand, or else protect himself from our — to him, hostility.  Even though to me — we would not be hostile.  But if he experiences us as hostile, I can either say “that’s not fair” or I can try to change.  

A big part of it is, too, if somehow he thinks that any question I ask that to me is neutral, to him implies a criticism.  So, if I know that a lot of things I think should come across as neutral, are not coming across as neutral, then I think my only option is to really cut down on those, and increase the things that do come across as neutral.  
 

I don’t think it’s fair, though, that some things that other kids would take as either neutral, or caring, or helpful, etc, but if I say the same thing it comes across as critical.  Well, I do think it’s not fair, but I think it’s pretty immature of me if I don’t adjust, instead of expecting him to be the one to adjust.  
 

I also think there are a lot of moral issues that I think are moral issues.  But the things that have come up here haven’t been moral issues, they have been things where I think there’s a right way to do things, but really it’s okay for different people to make different choices and decisions.  
 

So there is truth to this, but also I don’t think it’s completely fair that I’m labeled as this judgmental, critical person.  But, there is some truth to it, too.  
 

Anyway, I can’t say whether my son is particularly sensitive or overly sensitive, or if he’s average, but since he has found me to be this way, I have made efforts to change.  
 

The medicine would be like this, it would be like — coming across as such a rejection even if I hadn’t said anything about it for a month.  It would still be there, harming our relationship.  At this point — I just know it would be.  At first, I didn’t realize this with a similar thing.  But, if I am known to have that opinion, it’s just there.  So I have to back way off and also try to show I’m being more open to why someone would make a different decision, or respecting people making different decisions in general.  
 

And, if there are other people or a general attitude from teachers etc, that something should be done a certain way, then actually my son could really need me not to be neutral, but actively in his corner.  He could need me to actively take his side.  I need to either change my opinion or be open to different choices, to the point I can be actively supportive and say “you are free to make that decision and it’s nobody else’s business.” 

 

 

[Wheres Toto]

For background, dd is 16 has anxiety, adhd, (both untreated, no therapy) is homeschooled but comes to classes at the science center I run 3 days a week (I'm her teacher), and we do still drive her to TKD.    ds is 18, in college, drives himself, ASD.   Also have dd 29 who would definitely be mostly quiet and doing her own thing, but also told me EVERYTHING big going on in her life.  She went to public school and had an active social/work life so at home needed quiet alone time.

My kids have always responded best to just giving them space, having quiet time together (example, if we watch a movie or do something in the same room not constantly trying to talk), casual inquiries, and keeping things light.

Both youngers live in their rooms except during class and sometimes the most interaction I have with them is dropping a basket of clean clothes in their room and saying "clean laundry to put away" and leaving.    Both have to put up with us in their rooms occasionally because my closet clothes are in dd's room and all of dh's clothes are in ds's room.  So we do have to enter fairly frequently but we always knock, do what we need to do and leave.    

If reminders are needed about something it's a quick "don't forget xyz" and leave it.  As long as I can confirm they heard me, I don't do anything more.   Questions are more "think about what you'd like for xyz.  I need to know by x days in the future".    For dd, I might have her turn off her music for a moment in the car so I can mention something then let her put her music back on.  She definitely thinks about what I said but she does better if she doesn't feel like I'm there waiting for an answer and she can think about it.  

We asked dd about driving and she freaked out completely.  No interest in learning to drive, upset her for a good couple of hours.  We're better off waiting until she brings it up since we don't have any reason she needs to drive if she's not ready.  

We're all introverts, all my kids get upset if they feel I'm pushing at them especially during the teen years.    Our longest conversations were generally when we would take walks for exercise after class and the kids would give me a lecture on their latest video game obsession.   

This does require paying really close attention when I do see them or if they come out and do that hesitant "I want to say something but I'm not sure how it's going to go over and maybe I don't want to after all" attitude, I'll ask a casual "what's up?" and can usually get something out of them then.   It does seem like they are telling me the important stuff, judging by things that come up.   They are way more likely to talk to me than dh but I'm much better at not overreacting to things.   He still says too much of what he thinks, like he thinks its ridiculous that they still both like stuffed animals and buy them when they have money.  I tell him to just let them be interested in what they are interested in.  They notice the difference and are more likely to tell me things if they are worried about judgement. 

Anyway, bottom line is that seems normal to me for teenagers. 

[Dmmetler]

Text or talk in the car. I've learned that my teens, whether they're bio kids, bonus kids, or students won't talk if they have to face me to do that. But on a text message thread (or WhatsApp, or Signal, or on Discord...), Or when we're driving somewhere, or when they're facing the piano and don't have to look at me...suddenly, they start talking.

This seems to go double for kids who are neurodiverse at all. 

(Sometimes more than I want. I really don't need to know that my Monday at 4:30 failed his last geometry test, and hasn't told his parents because he's afraid they'll take his car away, and if they do his girlfriend might break up with him because she's not sure she likes him. It's really hard to get back to Bach after that!) 

 

 

[EKS]

I found that car rides (particularly when they were learning to drive so no phone distractions) were a good place to talk.  Captive audience and all.  

[Shelydon]

Not normal at all in my house

[SKL]

1 hour ago, Dmmetler said:

(Sometimes more than I want. I really don't need to know that my Monday at 4:30 failed his last geometry test, and hasn't told his parents because he's afraid they'll take his car away, and if they do his girlfriend might break up with him because she's not sure she likes him. It's really hard to get back to Bach after that!)

This reminds me of Kid2's usual interaction with her chiropractor.  That guy knows more about my kid's love and social life than that of his own son, possibly.  😛

[SKL]

So like I said, car rides together (without additional people) are rare nowadays, since my kids drive themselves mostly.  It was nice while it lasted.  Though even then, there was a limited window to broach important topics before the kid would start shutting down.  "OK I'm going to put my airpods in now."

I'm gonna give this whole thing a lot more thought.  How to get her input on what would work better ....

[Lecka]

I don’t know why this is, but with my daughter I can tell her to put her phone down, or tell her it’s rude to:  equivalent of saying she’s putting in her earbuds now.  
 

I have worked with her a lot on polite/acceptable ways to be done talking, or end a conversation, etc.  

 

But she is not shutting me out, I can do this with her and she doesn’t hold it against me.  
 

One of our vehicles has a Bluetooth speaker and the other one doesn’t, when we are in the one with the Bluetooth speaker, he does like to pick music for the car ride.  
 

Anyway, if he “seems like” he’s about to want to zone out, I would much rather say “you look like you want to zone out” and then — maybe I don’t love it, but I’m not mad that he’s being rude.  
 

I think it can take some of both, looking for ways to let things go or prevent something because — the moment is not right, they aren’t responsive then….. but then also being more strict or saying, hey, let’s go together to do something they like, and make it relaxed, but say — hey don’t be on your phone right now.  
 

But if there has been nothing, and she will go somewhere with you, I would not be too demanding about the phone until you can count on her going somewhere with you.  
 

I have always heard “relationship first” and then use that to have a foundation for everything else.  
 

If it’s a lot of — the phone is more interesting right now — and that seems to be what I’m competing against — I will escalate on that with my daughter and she knows I will, and she also does agree it’s rude….

 

But that is not how it was with my son.  
 

I had someone talk to me about my son, who saw our dynamic…. It does make me wonder if there’s someone who knows both of you that you could ask if they notice anything.  I was not aware I was — demanding.  Or, I thought “I guess I should be more demanding, since being a little demanding doesn’t seem like it’s doing anything.”  It was a big wake-up call for me.  
 

But definitely, I can say things to my daughter, and it is different, and if I say the same thing to someone who is quick to find me critical, it does not come across the same way.  
 

 

 

[SKL]

16 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I don’t know why this is, but with my daughter I can tell her to put her phone down, or tell her it’s rude to:  equivalent of saying she’s putting in her earbuds now.  
 

I have worked with her a lot on polite/acceptable ways to be done talking, or end a conversation, etc.  

 

But she is not shutting me out, I can do this with her and she doesn’t hold it against me.  
 

One of our vehicles has a Bluetooth speaker and the other one doesn’t, when we are in the one with the Bluetooth speaker, he does like to pick music for the car ride.  
 

Anyway, if he “seems like” he’s about to want to zone out, I would much rather say “you look like you want to zone out” and then — maybe I don’t love it, but I’m not mad that he’s being rude.  
 

I think it can take some of both, looking for ways to let things go or prevent something because — the moment is not right, they aren’t responsive then….. but then also being more strict or saying, hey, let’s go together to do something they like, and make it relaxed, but say — hey don’t be on your phone right now.  
 

But if there has been nothing, and she will go somewhere with you, I would not be too demanding about the phone until you can count on her going somewhere with you.  
 

I have always heard “relationship first” and then use that to have a foundation for everything else.  
 

If it’s a lot of — the phone is more interesting right now — and that seems to be what I’m competing against — I will escalate on that with my daughter and she knows I will, and she also does agree it’s rude….

 

But that is not how it was with my son.  
 

I had someone talk to me about my son, who saw our dynamic…. It does make me wonder if there’s someone who knows both of you that you could ask if they notice anything.  I was not aware I was — demanding.  Or, I thought “I guess I should be more demanding, since being a little demanding doesn’t seem like it’s doing anything.”  It was a big wake-up call for me.  
 

But definitely, I can say things to my daughter, and it is different, and if I say the same thing to someone who is quick to find me critical, it does not come across the same way.  
 

I wasn't saying it was rude.  That is a compromise we made some time ago.  I know she has limited ability to engage, and I give her permission to leave certain conversations by putting in her airpods ... as long as it's done politely.  There are certain times it's not allowed, and there are times I require her to turn that off and listen to me, but in general, it's not a point of contention here.

[SKL]

I think part of the issue may be that, knowing I will be lucky to get a 10-second back-and-forth, if I have something important to talk about, that's what I'll bring up.  So maybe it seems like talking to me is always a big thing.  But what else can ya do if you only get 10 seconds?

Like, remember those memes where they say "if you only get to say 10 words a year, what will those 10 words be?"

PS I do try to prepare the kid in advance so she isn't blindsided or anything like that.  "I need your input regarding ___.  I want to talk to you about it on Sunday evening.  So give it some thought."  That might help a little, but it's still strained and limited.  It might also make the time between now and Sunday evening more stressful.

When the kids were younger, I could start a conversation by questions like "what did you have for lunch today?  Who did you sit with?"  Then the kid would remember something she found interesting and tell me.  That doesn't really work any more.  Now it's "what was for lunch today?" "Ugh I don't know, I have homework to do."

[Pam in CT]

re feeling the imperative to use the very-limited number of engaged minutes you have

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

I think part of the issue may be that, knowing I will be lucky to get a 10-second back-and-forth, if I have something important to talk about, that's what I'll bring up.  So maybe it seems like talking to me is always a big thing.  But what else can ya do if you only get 10 seconds?

Like, remember those memes where they say "if you only get to say 10 words a year, what will those 10 words be?"...

I vividly remember some years ago your saying about one of your daughters something to the effect of, I love you; the world is a better place because you are in it.  

I've turned that over in my head often in the intervening years.

 

In really hard times, that's sometimes the most important message.  It doesn't get the battery recharged of course, but if you only had 10 words a year, how much would the battery matter.

 

 

(( hugs ))

 

[Terabith]

This sounds like anxiety to me.  We aren't a super talkative bunch at my house all the time, but we do try to have dinner together almost every night, and we do ride in the car together, even though my kids all have licenses, because we have four licensed drivers and two cars.  So I drive my kid to and from school since it's near my work, so my husband can have a car during the day.  But....a lot of those openings that you mentioned sound a little bit like things that might shut me or my kids down.  I do ask "how was your day?" but mostly just to commiserate about stupid things.  I do offer to help with things that might not be necessary.  We have a family text thread where we share things like appointments but also things like pictures of the cats or "I didn't know pineapples grow on bushes."  We actually do a lot of random facts of the day.  I tell the kids about my day.  But also I tell them frequently that they don't need to know what they're going to do with their life at 18.  I try to make my interactions with my kids stress reducing.  Honestly, to the point where I sometimes go to great extremes not to make demands, because demands feel hard for them and I'm trying to prioritize relationship over everything.  I did text on the family group text something like, "Hey, I would really appreciate it if everyone tried to remember to rinse out their milk glasses, because the dishwasher doesn't get the residue out of them, and we're currently out of the brush that works well for it, so it's just a pain.  But I understand that forgetting is easy.  Just a reminder to do so if you can."  

I mean, I increasingly feel like I know nothing about anything.  We're mostly all stumbling around in the dark doing the best we can.  It is really frustrating when it's hard to get even necessary information about things that we need to know about (boyfriend coming to visit, etc) from a kid.  No real advice.  Just solidarity.  And that it sounds like anxiety and maybe a bit of demand avoidance.