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JAWM Vent to keep from going crazy


saraha
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Saraha, I could have written parts of your vent.  I can't add much more than the excellent reflections and advice others have offered. But I wanted to let you know you are seen and heard, and your value is much more than all the things you do for people. You are worth making some space for yourself. I hope you come back and tell us 1 - something you did for yourself, and 2- something the you struck off your give-a-damn list.  🙂  

Wishing you love and a trajectory with increasing balance.

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I took a lot of crap from DH and others (even here) when I accepted a last-minute invite to go on vacation with college friends. I’d been DDs primary caregiver for two years at that point as DH was called away for 6mo+ stretches. I saw my opportunity and I took it. I STILL have no regrets and DH STILL complains about it 16 years later. It changed the dynamic in our marriage in important ways, emphasizing my value/contribution to his career, my need for time away, and the importance of him stepping up as a co-parent and planner. I cannot recommend the escape hatch I exercised b/c some partners are less well equipped to suck up and deal with the realities of the family care load but…yeah, my life was immeasurably better once he realized I could bounce and be just fine. ETA: I wanted/needed an equitable partnership and have it. It was hard-fought but I, fortunately, have a partner who wanted that for me, and has come to appreciate the benefit for him too. I think we too often protect men and boys from the realities of these burdens. Share your load/burdens and demand the help you need and deserve.

Edited by Sneezyone
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54 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Oh I am so sorry @saraha that you have so much on your plate that are hard exhausting things. I wish we were neighbors so I could do some of the driving, hug you while your cried, or just listen to you vent.  Anything.  I hope that venting here helps.  I hope that hearing that others are tired helps you not feel lonely.  I hope things get better.  I hope you can take a day off and just take care of you that day.  I hope knowing that all your friends here care about you helps.

The other night as I went around tucking some of my kids in, I took a moment to wish how I still had a mom taking care of me.  Gosh we all deserve that.  It is hard to give all that care and comfort to others and never receive it.  Even when I am sick my family doesn't do much to take care of me because they are just trying to keep a handle of the things I do.  They are good people, but at most they might make me a meal once during the day.  Nobody is caring for me in that way a mother does.  I feel like I have done that for so many years for so many kids that I am exhausted and just want someone to care for me too.

I hope you have a good support system around you.  I never have and I am sure that is why things always feel worse.  Bad and hard things happen to everyone, but people who have wonderful support systems have some extra protection.

I was reading up thread about how these years will pass. I think they do, but at least for me so far things haven't gotten easier.  Maybe I am just extra down today because I am in a loop of bad things just keep happening one right after the other.  It was exhausting when the kids were little.  Turns out it is exhausting when they are not little too.  Maybe it gets better when they are all independent?  I will join you on this tired train.  I try to just get through the day.  Do little things that give me relief, comfort, or joy.  Some days it happens others it doesn't.  I hope you can get a day this week to just focus on you. 

I feel all of this as an under-parented mom. Is that a thing? A kid who never was a kid? It doesn’t always get better. The one thing I learned from childhood was that *I* and only *I* could change the relationship dynamics by not taking OP’s ish. It doesn’t take a ’mom’ to be a thoughtful partner or caregiver. It takes someone who is invested in and committed to making someone else’s life easier/better. That could be a friend, partner, spouse, child or even a stranger. Random strangers-acquaintances shouldn’t be more thoughtful about your needs/wants/preferences than those who live in your home.

Edited by Sneezyone
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37 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I feel all of this as an under-parented mom. Is that a thing? A kid who never was a kid? It doesn’t always get better. The one thing I learned from childhood was that *I* and only *I* could change the relationship dynamics by not taking OP’s ish. It doesn’t take a ’mom’ to be a thoughtful partner or caregiver. It takes someone who is invested in and committed to making someone else’s life easier/better. That could be a friend, partner, spouse, child or even a stranger. Random strangers-acquaintances shouldn’t be more thoughtful about your needs/wants/preferences than those who live in your home.

Agreed.  My dh will try and so will the kids.  But you isn't the same as a mom taking care of you.  Someone who just knows the exact thing to do for you without it being said.   If dh stops and tries to take care of me to the level of a mom then a bunch of things can't get done too.  He isn't used to the job that I do even though most of it invisible it is important.  I could not have done the job I do 17 years ago either, it was a step-by-step training.   I am probably not explaining what I mean very well.  It has been a hard day. 

Edited by mommyoffive
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29 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Agreed.  My dh will try and so will the kids.  But you isn't the same as a mom taking care of you.  Someone who just knows the exact thing to do for you without it being said.   If dh stops and tries to take care of me to the level of a mom then a bunch of things can't get done too.  He isn't used to the job that I do even though most of it invisible it is important.  I could not have done the job I do 17 years ago either, it was a step-by-step training.   I am probably not explaining what I mean very well.  It has been a hard day. 

Yes. I totally understand this. My kids want to be helpful, but sometimes helping is worse than doing it yourself. I had to get an extra job to help pay the bills. So now I work weekends. Dh is here, fully capable of being the adult. He is having a hard time adjusting to thinking about who what when that are not him. And my mom is a jerk. So no one moms me. I have several times over the years been in bed crying I want my mom, but not my mom. What I wanted was A mom. I need a mom or a sister and I don’t have that.

Its kind of like when people find out I have 6 kids and they are all omg how are you even functional? And my response is, well they came one at a time so I had time to get used to them…

Edited by saraha
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52 minutes ago, saraha said:

So no one moms me. I have several times over the years been in bed crying I want my mom, but not my mom. What I wanted was A mom. I need a mom or a sister and I don’t have that.

I feel this so much. Sometimes I've had sort of surrogate moms, but also sometimes it gets sad that they aren't really my own mom. I've been able to find friends who can be a "sister", but it's also not the same because we don't actually share a family. I also don't know if I just have these idealized versions of siblings and moms that don't really exist in the real world... 

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6 hours ago, saraha said:

So no one moms me. I have several times over the years been in bed crying I want my mom, but not my mom. What I wanted was A mom. I need a mom or a sister and I don’t have that.

 

Over the years I've frequently thought that I needed a wife. My mom was fine, but she wasn't nearly as efficient or proactive as I am. So I think what I've really wanted is a clone of myself to take care of me.

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@sarahaone thing I have learned is that in (good) therapy, we’re taught to “reparent” that little child that lives inside us. I’ve never been to therapy, but I’ve tried to understand and think about the concept of this and apply it best I can. It has helped a bit, actually. 

I don’t have a sister. I feel essentially “parentless” at times what with having an absent, narcissistic father and a mom who is probably NPD. 

If you lived nearby, we’d go get some lunch or something. 

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11 hours ago, saraha said:

Yes. I totally understand this. My kids want to be helpful, but sometimes helping is worse than doing it yourself. I had to get an extra job to help pay the bills. So now I work weekends. Dh is here, fully capable of being the adult. He is having a hard time adjusting to thinking about who what when that are not him. And my mom is a jerk. So no one moms me. I have several times over the years been in bed crying I want my mom, but not my mom. What I wanted was A mom. I need a mom or a sister and I don’t have that.

Its kind of like when people find out I have 6 kids and they are all omg how are you even functional? And my response is, well they came one at a time so I had time to get used to them…

Same.  My mom isn't there for me at all.  Even was she was a decade ago it was usually more work to have her help me than it was help.  

Are things any better today?  Hoping you had some time to yourself for a bath, a walk, a show, a book, some chocolate, or just absolute quite. 

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On 7/18/2023 at 9:48 AM, Corraleno said:

Aww, honey, I'm so sorry everything is weighing so heavily on you right now. You're definitely not alone — every mother I know has had times where everything was just too much and they (we) just wanted to run away from it all. It's especially tough when you're dealing with elderly parent problems at the same time as teen/young adult issues, and then throw in marital issues and a spouse who can't or won't help (and/or is totally oblivious to it all), and it feels like you can barely keep your head above water. There were times when I felt like climbing on the roof and just screaming "Why am I the only grown-up in this whole damn family????" The worst part to me is feeling like my brain isn't even my own, because so many other people are offloading their mental work into it; it's like having your living space invaded by a dozen squatters who make so much noise and mess you have no time or space to yourself.

Can you sit down with your kids and husband and just flat out say "I can't keep doing this without losing my mind, let's brainstorm some ways to take some of this off my plate"? I'm dealing with elderly parent issues and being pressured to participate in enabling behavior that I think is unwise and unsafe, and I've had to just say no and hold the line, even if it makes other family members think I'm being "heartless." No, I'm being mindful — of my own limits and the actual real-life limits of others, whether they recognize them or not.

Thanks for saying all this, I am in the same place as you for the portion I bolded. It’s really hard to be the one seeing things logically and being called mean for doing so. <could say lots more but won’t>
 

@saraha you have been carrying quite a bit for a long time now. The sandwich generation is a hard place to be even under normal circumstances. You have dementia and a newly debilitated spouse in the mix. Of course you need to vent! I do hope you will be able to have an honest productive conversation with your spouse about the reality of your situation and your personal capacity to handle things. Where would everyone be if you suddenly collapsed under all the weight? Let them know you need to be able to keep your own oxygen mask in place in order to be able to well serve anyone else for the long term. 
 

Many hugs to you. 

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For your dh, can you tell him that you need him to take care of things and you don't care how he does it?

My dh knows I'm good at certain things and doesn't want to "mess up." Or frustrate me by doing it in a way that I wouldn't prefer. I think your position I would go over and above to reassure that you do not care AT ALL what decision he makes, as long as he takes responsibility for however things turn out and it doesn't fall in your lap. As long as he makes a decision, you trust that he is a grown adult who is capable of managing certain things without you. 

So you don't care what he chooses for dinner. 

You don't care how he advises your kid on x y or z and you trust that he's a decent person with common sense and he will help the kid manage the issues that pop up.

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Thanks for all of the kind messages. I’ve reread them many times the last couple of days. I invited the kids’ cousins over to spend the night last night so they could be busy having a good time while I laid in bed and watched dumb tv with a stiff jack and coke and a plate of tortilla chips and cheese. Going to try to figure out how to get some smaller things off my plate or organized differently.

. The one thing causing the most stress is the situation with dh’s eyes. All of the appointments, the driving, the uncertainty, the changing roles and watching dh slide into depression over this is what is taking the biggest toll. He went back to work part time while he and his team figure out how to rearrange things to be most productive and he has a team member chaffing about it. If they don’t figure it out, we’re afraid they will let him go. It also means driving him and picking him up, which takes three hours of my day. I can’t make any of these things easier. So today I’m trying (with varying amounts of success) to focus on the positives and figure out new ways of doing what I can change. It’s exhausting 

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8 minutes ago, saraha said:

Thanks for all of the kind messages. I’ve reread them many times the last couple of days. I invited the kids’ cousins over to spend the night last night so they could be busy having a good time while I laid in bed and watched dumb tv with a stiff jack and coke and a plate of tortilla chips and cheese. Going to try to figure out how to get some smaller things off my plate or organized differently.

. The one thing causing the most stress is the situation with dh’s eyes. All of the appointments, the driving, the uncertainty, the changing roles and watching dh slide into depression over this is what is taking the biggest toll. He went back to work part time while he and his team figure out how to rearrange things to be most productive and he has a team member chaffing about it. If they don’t figure it out, we’re afraid they will let him go. It also means driving him and picking him up, which takes three hours of my day. I can’t make any of these things easier. So today I’m trying (with varying amounts of success) to focus on the positives and figure out new ways of doing what I can change. It’s exhausting 

Glad you took some time for you!

I get the exhaustion from the driving.  That is my stupid normal life.  And including the waiting around time sometimes I waste 10 hours a day doing it.  I bet that your jobs are not near dh's work are they?  If they were maybe linking those times up?  

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21 minutes ago, saraha said:

Thanks for all of the kind messages. I’ve reread them many times the last couple of days. I invited the kids’ cousins over to spend the night last night so they could be busy having a good time while I laid in bed and watched dumb tv with a stiff jack and coke and a plate of tortilla chips and cheese. Going to try to figure out how to get some smaller things off my plate or organized differently.

. The one thing causing the most stress is the situation with dh’s eyes. All of the appointments, the driving, the uncertainty, the changing roles and watching dh slide into depression over this is what is taking the biggest toll. He went back to work part time while he and his team figure out how to rearrange things to be most productive and he has a team member chaffing about it. If they don’t figure it out, we’re afraid they will let him go. It also means driving him and picking him up, which takes three hours of my day. I can’t make any of these things easier. So today I’m trying (with varying amounts of success) to focus on the positives and figure out new ways of doing what I can change. It’s exhausting 

You've been looking at seismic changes in your life and family for a while, and dh's eyes are a VERY BIG DEAL (as you well know). It's so much stress. 

Several years ago, my dh had what appeared to be a seizure. He fell in the bathroom, and then lay shaking on the floor and unresponsive as I called out his name. It was horrifying. We had to go to the hospital, obviously. Dh had months of tests and assessments with cardiology and neurology. During that time he was not allowed to drive, so the kids and I had to drive him 45-60 minutes to work one way. Some days we would then stay out in the area near his job, and other days we'd circle around to come back home. Losing that much time each day to driving was horrible. So yeah, I completely understand how much this is impacting your life--the time, the disagreeable chore of driving, and overarching all is the terrible worry and anxiety over your poor dh and his eyes. 

(My dh was/is fine. His eventual diagnosis was vasovagal syncope, which is no big deal at all. Thank God.)

I'm so glad you got a night to rest. I hope you are able to work in many more breathers like that, and I pray your dh's eyes will be restored.

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45 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Glad you took some time for you!

I get the exhaustion from the driving.  That is my stupid normal life.  And including the waiting around time sometimes I waste 10 hours a day doing it.  I bet that your jobs are not near dh's work are they?  If they were maybe linking those times up?  

I wish. His job is 45 minutes away one direction while my old guy is like 4 minutes from our house. I got invited to interview at my new job by an insider, which is a Godsend, and it is 30 minutes from home in a completely different direction, so I only work weekends because dh is off or if they have a really big tour booked on a week day, I will drive down to help cover just that tour. I so far have been able to make it all work time wise, it’s just such a time suck

Edited by saraha
Apparently I’ve opened the flood gates and all the complaints are running out 🙄
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28 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

You've been looking at seismic changes in your life and family for a while, and dh's eyes are a VERY BIG DEAL (as you well know). It's so much stress. 

Several years ago, my dh had what appeared to be a seizure. He fell in the bathroom, and then lay shaking on the floor and unresponsive as I called out his name. It was horrifying. We had to go to the hospital, obviously. Dh had months of tests and assessments with cardiology and neurology. During that time he was not allowed to drive, so the kids and I had to drive him 45-60 minutes to work one way. Some days we would then stay out in the area near his job, and other days we'd circle around to come back home. Losing that much time each day to driving was horrible. So yeah, I completely understand how much this is impacting your life--the time, the disagreeable chore of driving, and overarching all is the terrible worry and anxiety over your poor dh and his eyes. 

(My dh was/is fine. His eventual diagnosis was vasovagal syncope, which is no big deal at all. Thank God.)

I'm so glad you got a night to rest. I hope you are able to work in many more breathers like that, and I pray your dh's eyes will be restored.

Glad your dh turned out fine!!!

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29 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

I see your siggie. Is it up to date? Is there any way that you can get another teen driving ASAP?

Oh, I don’t know, I can’t see it on my phone. Dd22 amd dd20 are both home for the summer. Dd18, dd16, and ds 13 still live at home. Dd20 is the only other driver. Dh has been talking to dd16 about learning to drive, but she’s not interested yet

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52 minutes ago, saraha said:

Oh, I don’t know, I can’t see it on my phone. Dd22 amd dd20 are both home for the summer. Dd18, dd16, and ds 13 still live at home. Dd20 is the only other driver. Dh has been talking to dd16 about learning to drive, but she’s not interested yet

Hmm...I really think that in this situation, for ordinary teens, It may be time regardless of whether or not anyone is interested.  YOU NEED YOUR KIDS TO HELP IN THIS WAY. 

My dd had been dragging her feet about driving. She dealt with anxiety and such about it and so we dragged it out and dragged it out and it was taking forever. And then finally one day I'd had it. I just told her, "If you want to go anywhere, you will be driving." And that was that. She learned quickly because any fun thing, any work thing ANYTHING she wanted to attend, she was behind the wheel. I was kind and patient while she was learning, but I didn't give her the option anymore. 

We don't live anywhere that public transportation exists. It's not an optional thing for our family members. For us, it's a life skill. Like working a job, checking email, and handling a debit card.

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1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

Hmm...I really think that in this situation, for ordinary teens, It may be time regardless of whether or not anyone is interested.  YOU NEED YOUR KIDS TO HELP IN THIS WAY. 

My dd had been dragging her feet about driving. She dealt with anxiety and such about it and so we dragged it out and dragged it out and it was taking forever. And then finally one day I'd had it. I just told her, "If you want to go anywhere, you will be driving." And that was that. She learned quickly because any fun thing, any work thing ANYTHING she wanted to attend, she was behind the wheel. I was kind and patient while she was learning, but I didn't give her the option anymore. 

We don't live anywhere that public transportation exists. It's not an optional thing for our family members. For us, it's a life skill. Like working a job, checking email, and handling a debit card.

Yes, my mom did something similar with my sister. The rest of us wanted to drive, but she had no interest. My mom told her that once she was old enough to drive, she needed to get her license, because she (mom) wasn't going to be driving her places anymore. Sis said she'd just call her friends, and mom said no she wouldn't, either! Like ffh, we lived where it was a necessary life skill. Sis learned.

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I don’t think that tactic would work for dd16. She is literally the person in the house that needs driven the absolute  least. She is a homebody who’s best friend is her cousin who lives within walking distance from here. Dh and I have a different approach to driving with our kids. We have more than one on the autism spectrum, more than one with severe anxiety and just don’t feel like pushing will accomplish what we want. 

Edited by saraha
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31 minutes ago, saraha said:

I don’t think that tactic would work for dd16. She is literally the person in the house that needs driven the absolute  least. She is a homebody who’s best friend is her cousin who lives within walking distance from here. Dh and I have a different approach to driving with our kids. We have more than one on the autism spectrum, more than one with severe anxiety and just don’t feel like pushing will accomplish what we want. 

Yeah, my sister just didn't want to put in the effort--there wasn't anything else going on. That makes a difference.

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47 minutes ago, saraha said:

I don’t think that tactic would work for dd16. She is literally the person in the house that needs driven the absolute  least. She is a homebody who’s best friend is her cousin who lives within walking distance from here. Dh and I have a different approach to driving with our kids. We have more than one on the autism spectrum, more than one with severe anxiety and just don’t feel like pushing will accomplish what we want. 

I get that.  I didn't get mine until sometime in college.  There just wasn't a huge need and I didn't want to pay the $ for gas, car, and insurance.  I think you have to do what is right for your kids and family.  I am way happier to let my kids get older before they get licenses, I like the extra year or two of maturity.  I think driving at 16 is nuts.  

And then you have to think will it really help your particular family.  If there is only one car then will having another driver actually help anything?  Paying for a teen for insurance?  Or even more a whole other car.  

That stinks about your jobs and your dh's.  I feel like it is like a lottery winning when things logistically work out.  They don't in my family at all.  Hence all the driving and waiting time. 

Long term would getting a fulltime job closer to your dh's work be an idea?  

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Your dh’s vision loss has s a life altering event; even if it turns out not to be permanent, it’s already been a Big Deal. His physician should be able to see the need for, and make a referral for, counseling. Also to services and agencies that provide help to those new to blindness. You are a natural emotional support for your husband, but it should not fall all in your shoulders. I hope the ophthalmologist is forward thinking in this regard, it may be easier for your dh to acknowledge a need for such if it came from his doctor. 

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12 hours ago, saraha said:

Oh, I don’t know, I can’t see it on my phone. Dd22 amd dd20 are both home for the summer. Dd18, dd16, and ds 13 still live at home. Dd20 is the only other driver. Dh has been talking to dd16 about learning to drive, but she’s not interested yet

I would flat out tell my teen that she needs to learn to drive now.  We are also farm/ rural and our girls weren't thrilled about learning to drive.  My oldest was told she had to drive if she wanted DE bc I wasn't driving her 2x a week.  Second we had to MAKE her get her license, she had a side job and I wasn't going to drive her.  Within a few months she loved that freedom.  We live 15 minutes from our small town (pop 750) and an hour from a bigger town (pop 12K).  I cannot be driving kids that far for activities if they can drive themselves.  

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13 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

You've been looking at seismic changes in your life and family for a while, and dh's eyes are a VERY BIG DEAL (as you well know). It's so much stress. 

Several years ago, my dh had what appeared to be a seizure. He fell in the bathroom, and then lay shaking on the floor and unresponsive as I called out his name. It was horrifying. We had to go to the hospital, obviously. Dh had months of tests and assessments with cardiology and neurology. During that time he was not allowed to drive, so the kids and I had to drive him 45-60 minutes to work one way. Some days we would then stay out in the area near his job, and other days we'd circle around to come back home. Losing that much time each day to driving was horrible. So yeah, I completely understand how much this is impacting your life--the time, the disagreeable chore of driving, and overarching all is the terrible worry and anxiety over your poor dh and his eyes. 

(My dh was/is fine. His eventual diagnosis was vasovagal syncope, which is no big deal at all. Thank God.)

I'm so glad you got a night to rest. I hope you are able to work in many more breathers like that, and I pray your dh's eyes will be restored.

This is what happened with my Dh.  The  fainting turned out to be no big deal ( vasovagal syncope) but while figuring that out they discovered a heart issue.

As for @saraha,I feel like there is a bit of reality denying going on. If his vision is gone, disability seems reasonable.  

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All of it sounds exhausting, and I hope you catch a break soon. 

I'm going to drop some thoughts about resources below, so they'll be there whenever you're ready to read them. Research seems like something some of the older kids could take on. 

I apologize that I don't recall the whole story, but has your dh spoken to a social worker or physician liaison? Doctors don't always think to suggest it, but sometimes they will know about resources we wouldn't even think about. 

A physician liaison works for the doctor or the practice (or at least the one we used did), and they help with communication among all of the providers and pointing to resources. My dad's liaison was, and is, a freaking lifesaver. When my dad had his stroke last year, she told us how to avoid a rapid discharge (which would have been both unsafe and reduced his chances of skilled nursing rehab). She answered a million questions and made sure we were aware of all possible resources and next steps. Even if his doctor's office has not mentioned having one, I'd ask if they do - they might think of them more in context of people who are in the hospital for a long time or fighting for benefits, but their knowledge of resources could be very helpful. 

Then the hospital should either have social workers or be able to connect you to a social worker, and they may have knowledge of resources as well. 

With either one, the thing to keep in mind is where their loyalties lay. My dad's social worker was bad all around, and pushing hard for an unsafe discharge for my dad - her loyalty was to the hospital. Although I really think her laziness played into it as well, she just wanted to close the case (she literally called me at 4.45 to try and get me to agree to a discharge plan in the 15 minutes before she got off for a long weekend 🙄). 

The liaison obviously had a loyalty to the doctor, but that loyalty worked with my dad's best interests. She also works hard and knows her job, and I'm sure many social workers do as well, even if they have a certain level of loyalty to the hospital. All of this to say that you should seek these resources, but don't necessarily accept that the answer to something is no just on their say-so. Use the resources when they give you good news, keep looking when they give you bad news. 

If he's not already in touch with your state's vocational rehab program, absolutely do that. My state has a whole sub-department dedicated to Blind Services, and I would think they should have ideas on how dh can use accommodations  to do his job. 

Catholic Charities usually has great knowledge of local resources. Even if they don't have specific programs to help your situation, they might be able to give or find a grant for something short-term (help with medical bills, or buying assistive technology). You don't have to be Catholic. My local CC has an email you can send in explaining your situation, which personally I find easier than making phone calls. 

On 7/20/2023 at 11:22 PM, Scarlett said:

 As for @saraha,I feel like there is a bit of reality denying going on. If his vision is gone, disability seems reasonable.  

I wouldn't rush to disability. 

Even if he has good private disability insurance, there's going to be a marked reduction in pay. 

It's close to a one-way street, so my personal choice would be to stay working as long as possible. It takes time to figure out accommodations, it takes time to learn assistive technologies, and it takes time to adjust to loss of sight. And I don't think his vision is completely gone? 

Having said that, people who qualify for disability due to blindness or legal blindness are a special case, and can often make more money on disability than people with other issues. It's worth some research, and possibly worth a consultation with a disability lawyer. If the time comes to file for disability, you'll likely need that lawyer anyway, as it's par for the course to be denied, have stumbling blocks put in your path, and not get accurate information. 

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