S/O What things are neccessary?

[Drama Llama]

If you're in a state that doesn't set graduation requirements for homeschoolers, what things do you think need to be on the transcript to legitimately graduate your child?  What things do colleges expect to see?  I'm thinking of both level (e.g. a certain level in math) and subjects?

How do you decide?
 

We're in a state where public school students are required to take P.E., health, art and technology.  Does that mean homeschooled students should too? 

[ScoutTN]

This is answered on the pinned “motherlode threads”, but a general place to start is what colleges have as admissions requirements. The general 5x4 + electives is also one place to start.

Too many variables to give one set answer. What is necessary for one kid is a waste of time for another. 

Level of difficulty/challenge - what suits your student and keeps a reasonable balance of time for school vs family, ECs, jobs etc. Plan, but hold on loosely as kids change a lot in high school.

My homeschooler saw those light, elective type classes as fun and was happy to include some. We counted her sport (dance) as PE. She did health at our local tutorial. She loves fine arts and had oodles of those hours. Musical Theater was absolutely necessary for my Dd. 😆😎 It would be torture for some other kids.

Edited June 29, 2023 by ScoutTN

[cintinative]

HSLDA used to have a brochure about this but it is behind a paywall (I know some people don't like them)

this is close, but it doesn't cover non-college bound people

https://fearlesshomeschoolers.com/blog/homeschool-credits-for-high-school

For us, we try to check most of the boxes that state u's expect to see because we intend to stay in state. So for us that means they  usually see P.E., health, fine arts, and government, among other things (the state grad requirements are changing). But I don't hold myself to their (the state's) standards--for example, the requirements effective next year involve earning different badges/medals for different courses.   

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by cintinative

[regentrude]

I worked backwards from the admissions requirements of the colleges that my kids were interested in.
that got us to:
4 years each of math, English, science, foreign language, social science. (The level of the courses depended on kid's ability and selectivity of college.)
Plus electives. We ticked the PE and Arts box because those are an integral part of our lives anyway.

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by regentrude

[8filltheheart]

I don't follow our state's graduation requirements. I follow the same path as @regentrude. 

 

[EKS]

For colleges: Four years of English, math (preferably through calculus), science (the big three plus one more), social science (world history, American history, two electives), we also did fine arts, PE, and some technology electives.

ETA:  Also foreign language--minimum three years for a neurotypical kid.

Edited June 29, 2023 by EKS

[Farrar]

The floor that you'll see suggested by most colleges is 4 math and English, 3 science (including a biological and physical and 2 labs) and social studies (including a world and a US), 2 languages other than English. But those are really a floor. And a few colleges require some other things like government or fine arts or 3 lab sciences, but those are rare.

But focusing on that floor doesn't serve students who want to attend competitive schools very well. What they need beyond that depends on goals and who they're likely to compete against in admissions. A student who wants engineering should treat getting through pre-calculus as an absolute requirement and have 4 full years of science and ideally at least 1-2 credits in technology. But I've known humanities interested students who got into really hard to get into colleges with just basic Algebra II and the absolute minimum in sciences. But... they had loaded up on English, philosophy, linguistics, sociology, psychology, etc.

Basically, I think collegebound students should consider going above and beyond in a couple of areas. Which ones depends on their individual goals. So it's about more than just the college's requirements.

[Roadrunner]

We also followed - 4 years of each English, math, science, social science, foreign language + electives.

[Lori D.]

Because of your family's past difficult life circumstances, and because your family has done both brick & mortar school and homeschool in the past, I would suggest doing a blend of typical college admission requirements and state Board of Ed's required credits for high school graduation. That way, if your life circumstances change again, or if DC change their minds about homeschool and want to be in a school for high school, you will have an easier time transitioning back into a brick & mortar high school if needed.

Note that a blended list of credits from colleges & your state board of ed. still allows you flexibility as to HOW you accomplish these credits. 😄 

A college prep + high school grad. set of credits typically looks something like this:

4 credits = English (usually 1/2 Writing + 1/2 Literature; up to 0.5 credit of Speech/Public Speaking works here too)
3-4 credits = Math (Alg. 1, Geometry, Alg. 2 -- many colleges want a 4th math, and often want that to be a math above Alg. 2)
3-4 credits = Science, with labs (most colleges flexible; some want Biology and Chemistry; 4th credit needed if going into a STEM field)
2-4 credits = Social Studies (most colleges require 1 credit Amer. Hist.; many also want 1.0 credit World Hist. or Georg.; a few want 0.5 credit each Econ + Gov't)
2-4 credits = For. Language, same language (Latin accepted everywhere; ASL accepted at many colleges)
1 credit = Fine Arts or CTE (Career-Technical Ed.)
4-8+ credits = Electives (ex: PE, Health, Computer, Religious Studies, Vocational-Tech, personal interests, "Academic Electives (add'l credits in the first 5 subjects above, beyond required amt.), etc.) 
22+ credits = total

In planning a set of credits that keeps as many future doors open as possible, I also would be thinking about each child's interests and future goals, and work that into the homeschool high school experience as much as possible.

I believe your older DS is interested in Music / Music Theory? I would think about what his post high school plans might be -- a selective music conservatory? straight to performance or self-employment as a music teacher? something else? -- and gear your high school homeschooling around what will best support, and complement/extend/make flexible, his Music career plans, and develop your list of required credits it include that.

Returning to brick & mortar school might be a possibility, so check if homeschooling high school is an "all or nothing" decision by your school district, or if they require taking their end-of-year test for each and every course to grant credit if wanting that to be accepted and to show up on his school transcript. In those cases, you may wish to stick closer to the specific Sciences used by the brick & mortar school for easier re-entry, for example. Or, there may be no troubles at all about accepting homeschool credits for returning to a brick & mortar high school -- which gives you great freedom in what Social Studies you might choose to do.

Research college music programs now, to make sure you have your bases covered and leave doors open by completing a college prep set of credits. For example, Math beyond Alg. 2 may not be needed, but a 4th math credit may be required, so consider what would work best for him -- possibly something like Business Math or Accounting, if he may end up giving music lessons or being part of an independent contracting band as his business, which would satisfy the 4th math credit AND be personally beneficial for his future adult life. Just an example.

Also, it can be useful to look and see what your potential dual enrollment options are at the local community college (CC). Especially if there ends up being a Vocational-Technical certificate or Associate degree that would be of interest to your student, or would be helpful to have as a "fall back" training and skill as a young adult if Music is not panning out as planned -- for example, sound engineer training/certification could be very useful for himself, and adds to his potential employability. And, if something like that is available in your area (even if not as DE through the CC), it could be done as Elective credits.

Just a few rambling thoughts to help you see the possibilities as you plan for homeschooling high school. BEST of luck in planning for homeschool high school.
 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Lori D.

[BusyMom5]

I look at the most likely colleges my kids will go to and plan from there.  My plan changes as they move through and make decisions.  I have a general 4-year plan but I focus on one year at a time.  

Freshman year is English 1, next Math in sequence,  Science with lab (so far all 4 did Bio in 9th), and a history credit.  Electives are a FL if they are interested,  things they are interested in, or things I consider important.  Health and Personal Finance are two that I do require. 

Sophomore year is English 2, next Math, another science with lab (Chemistry,  Earth, and Physics so far- all different), and a history or social studies.  Electives depend on the kid.  

Junior year- one did all DE, one had me still teach most subjects but did a few DE.  

Senior year- so far both had a good idea what they wanted to do and what college they were attending,  so we worked from they intended major Course list.  

[Brittany1116]

Following the U's requirements but planning to DE to earn many of those credits for transfer. FL doesn't have much in the way of HS grad requirements at this time.

[Shoeless]

For us, no, we're not doing a formal class on PE, health, or technology. My kid is active, we have discussed health quite a bit over the last 3 years, and I feel like most kids are pretty tech savvy. Our local high school has a "technology" class that is basically a catch all for every "good idea" someone had: financial literacy, entrepreneurial skills, how to use social media, debate, keyboarding, time management, coding, and several more topics, all crammed into a semester.  This is a junk class, IMO. There's no way any of those topics can be learned in any kind of depth in just a semester, never mind all of those topics!  I'd be pretty steamed if my high schooler had to waste time on it, so we won't be recreating that experience. 

My kid has taken a weekly art class for years, so we'll continue with that. 

Other than that, he'll end up with 4 years of English lit & comp, 4 years of history, 4 years of math, 4 years of science, however many years of foreign language I can shove him through (He's not excited about this. At all), 4 years of art classes, and then however many electives he wants to do. He'll probably want more science or history because he likes those topics. 

We are not aiming for a highly selective school. We're likely looking at community college leading toward an AA or AS degree, then transferring in to a 4 year school somewhere.  It's the right choice for our budget and temperaments.  I'm encouraging some DE and Clep tests, because the Clep exams will check off boxes for free gen eds and DE will give him practice in a college environment.  But, he also may end up at trade school. He's kicked around that idea, too.  

[Eos]

Adding that in the college admissions lens, junior year is the most "important" because it's the last full year the admissions people will see.  For your youngest, this is the year to include DE or APs if he's going to do them (though it sounds like he might start with these earlier), rigorous and interesting classes or internships, etc.  This isn't quite as relevant for your oldest if he's doing an audition-based application.

For your oldest, if he's doing an audition-based application this will be the year you'll want to visit music programs and take sample lessons.  It sounds like he might switch to a new private teacher this year?  You'll be able to emphasize this switch in your counselor letter as well as how many music-related classes and activities he did.  Do you have an All-State Band option in your state?  Ours allows homeschoolers to participate and this is a great fall of junior year activity.

[Drama Llama]

15 hours ago, Lori D. said:

 

I believe your older DS is interested in Music / Music Theory? 

 

Music therapy not theory.  
 

Thank you for all your wisdom.

 

[Roadrunner]

10 hours ago, Eos said:

Adding that in the college admissions lens, junior year is the most "important" because it's the last full year the admissions people will see.  For your youngest, this is the year to include DE or APs if he's going to do them (though it sounds like he might start with these earlier), rigorous and interesting classes or internships, etc.  This isn't quite as relevant for your oldest if he's doing an audition-based application.

For your oldest, if he's doing an audition-based application this will be the year you'll want to visit music programs and take sample lessons.  It sounds like he might switch to a new private teacher this year?  You'll be able to emphasize this switch in your counselor letter as well as how many music-related classes and activities he did.  Do you have an All-State Band option in your state?  Ours allows homeschoolers to participate and this is a great fall of junior year activity.

Is this done during the junior year? I heard it’s too early during the junior year and should be during Fall of the senior year. I would love to hear from more from experienced parents. 

[klmama]

I made sure my dc studied what was needed for college admission.  I also made sure they were on track with courses required in the local public or private schools in case they had to finish high school there for some unexpected reason (I knew someone whose dc transferred in and had to take an extra year to get in the required courses to graduate).  So, yes, my dc took P.E. and health. 

I'm not sure what instrument(s) your ds plays currently.  If he doesn't yet know how to play piano, getting started on that may be helpful.  Also, the freshman music theory course tends to weed out a lot of students, so going in with a solid foundation would help.  
 

[Eos]

3 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Is this done during the junior year? I heard it’s too early during the junior year and should be during Fall of the senior year. I would love to hear from more from experienced parents. 

Junior year is when you contact potential music programs and teachers and ask for sample lessons - they are usually in the winter/spring of Junior year. 

Fall of senior year is when you do the application, usually by December 1st, submit pre-screens for some instruments and some voice programs, then get assigned an audition date in winter of senior year.

Some universities require you to be accepted into the university as well as audition, stand-alone conservatories and some music programs within universities are separate in terms of admission and will recommend you for admission based much more on the audition.  It's definitely school-specific, which is another reason you have to start the process in Junior year.

Having said all that, my experience is with a classical musician child not a music therapy major 🙂 

[Eos]

Adding, some teachers/studios have specific sample lesson days and will only let you come on those days.

Most if not all auditioned BM programs list the audition requirements on their websites, which gives students time to prepare them.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Eos

[8filltheheart]

29 minutes ago, klmama said:

I'm not sure what instrument(s) your ds plays currently.  If he doesn't yet know how to play piano, getting started on that may be helpful.  Also, the freshman music theory course tends to weed out a lot of students, so going in with a solid foundation would help.  
 

Can you explain the bolded?  I have no idea if my dd is going to want to pursue music (she will be an accomplished violinist and singer by the time she graduates....she is already heading in that direction).  She is only a rising 8th grader and after an engineering camp this summer is now saying EE.  Who knows.  But, if she does decide to pursue something in music, do all music majors need to know how to play the piano?  Theory makes sense.  But I'm not sure why a violinist would need to know how to play the piano.

Edited July 1, 2023 by 8filltheheart

[Shoeless]

13 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

Can you explain the bolded?  I have no idea if my dd is going to want to pursue music (she will be an accomplished violinist and singer by the time she graduates....she is already heading in that direction).  She is only a rising 8th grader and after an engineering camp this summer is now saying EE.  Who knows.  But, if she does decide to pursue something in music, do all music majors need to know how to play the piano?  Theory makes sense.  But I'm not sure why a violinist would need to know how to play the piano.

If a performance major, maybe no, but for music education, yes, she'll need piano. 

[Drama Llama]

I haven’t looked at the requirements for performance majors, but piano is definitely required for general/choral music ed and piano, guitar, and voice are all required for music therapy, in addition to whatever instrument you audition on, if it isn’t one of those 3.

DS’s primary instruments are bass and voice, but he does some piano and guitar.  I think there are a lot of kids who choose music Ed as a safer major as you can get a job, but my kid really loves teaching so it’s his first choice. 

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, 8filltheheart said:

Can you explain the bolded?  I have no idea if my dd is going to want to pursue music (she will be an accomplished violinist and singer by the time she graduates....she is already heading in that direction).  She is only a rising 8th grader and after an engineering camp this summer is now saying EE.  Who knows.  But, if she does decide to pursue something in music, do all music majors need to know how to play the piano?  Theory makes sense.  But I'm not sure why a violinist would need to know how to play the piano.

Usually if you major in another instrument, you will be required to take several semesters of piano while in school and pass certain proficiency. You don’t need to know in advance how to play piano, but if you do, you might be able to place out of those requirements. 

[klmama]

36 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Usually if you major in another instrument, you will be required to take several semesters of piano while in school and pass certain proficiency. You don’t need to know in advance how to play piano, but if you do, you might be able to place out of those requirements. 

This. 

2 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

Can you explain the bolded?  I have no idea if my dd is going to want to pursue music (she will be an accomplished violinist and singer by the time she graduates....she is already heading in that direction).  She is only a rising 8th grader and after an engineering camp this summer is now saying EE.  Who knows.  But, if she does decide to pursue something in music, do all music majors need to know how to play the piano?  Theory makes sense.  But I'm not sure why a violinist would need to know how to play the piano.

See Roadrunner's comment above.  Also, knowing piano helps with theory class.  Freshman music theory is often considered a weed-out course for music majors; already knowing how to read notes and key signatures in both bass and treble clef will make the course much easier.  (Students will learn alto and tenor clefs, as well.)  At some point, students will compose simple piano music to demonstrate theory learned, and having a head start on the keyboard will make those assignments easier.  Certainly, it's possible to be successful in music theory without already knowing how to play piano, but some familiarity will help.  

[8filltheheart]

Great info. Thanks. 

[Drama Llama]

So, everyone's in agreement that we don't need health for either kid, and only need tech credits for my STEM kid?  

[Roadrunner]

13 minutes ago, BandH said:

So, everyone's in agreement that we don't need health for either kid, and only need tech credits for my STEM kid?  

So our state also requires PE and Health. My kid didn’t have any and got into all sorts of places. So yes, you don’t need PE or health. 

[klmama]

Legally, you only have to do what your state's homeschool law requires.  However, if your dc end up returning to traditional high school, having those credits out of the way would help (assuming the schools there accept your homeschool credits -- that varies by school district).  As for colleges caring, that may vary by college.  

[J-rap]

I looked at local high school graduation requirements as a guideline.  I figured they'd be up-to-date on general requirements for colleges in our state.  That worked out well for us.

[8filltheheart]

7 hours ago, BandH said:

So, everyone's in agreement that we don't need health for either kid, and only need tech credits for my STEM kid?  

My philosophy is this.  I personally believe kids need all sorts of things that I don't put on their transcript that some places require and do---pe, health, financial literarcy, drivers ed---plus ones that are electives that are ignored these days----shop, home ec, automotive repair.  Just bc something isn't making it onto my kids' transcripts doesn't mean it isn't stuff they learn.  My kids learn all of those things and I would have no problems putting any of those on their transcript as a cr (except for automotive repair bc they don't learn enough).

I am not a "prepackaged provider" homeschooler.   My kids' courses are designed by me to cover what I want them to learn.  I certainly want my kids to be physically healthy, so those are things they definitely are taught.  It just may not look like a health textbook or a pe class. It is part of our home life that they are taught to care about health diets/nutrition, healthy lifestyles (physical and mental), and being active. 

[regentrude]

7 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

So our state also requires PE and Health. My kid didn’t have any and got into all sorts of places. So yes, you don’t need PE or health. 

If your state doesn't require it *for homeschoolers* then you don't. Haven't seen any college require those.

However, we did a health half credit because as normal part of parenting I would teach my kids about nutrition, body, sexual health, and have them take a first Aid + cpr course. It doesn't have to be a formal class to count.

Same with tech - irrespective of major, our goal was for the kids to be computer literate, including hardware, internet savvy, simple web design, basic software products. 

Same with PE and art-  physical activity and cultural events (concerts, museums, theatre) are integral part of our lives, and if necessary,  I can create a course description and give credit.

Learning doesn't just happen with a textbook and a formal class.

Edited July 1, 2023 by regentrude

[Clemsondana]

We live in a state where most people use an umbrella program, and ours mostly aligns with the state requirements.  So, we've done health and PE and personal finance.  But, they don't necessarily look like a traditional class.  We have a former maternity nurse who teaches health at co-op every few years, so I had older take that because it's a good class.  But, if not available, we'd probably do something at home and then do a CPR class.  For PE, I don't want to double count their extracurriculasr and PE, but I'm happy to record hours for anything that isn't a mandatory practice.  We just got back from a vacation where younger spent a couple of hours each day swimming in the ocean and walking on the beach.  So, i recorded 2 hrs a day of physical activity for PE.  Family bike rides or hikes, ski trips, a daily family walk, rock climbing...I've known people to get their PE all sorts of ways.  

I don't know that colleges would care, but I figured it doesn't hurt to give them what they ware used to seeing when it's something that we'll do anyway.  But, as with anything homeschool, there's no reason to do it the same way that it would be done in a public school.  Knowing the personalities of my kids, we often try to knock out these easy credits early - 9th grade, over the summer, etc.  They tend to like feeling like they've accomplished checking something off the to-do list, so starting fall of 9th grade with 'you've already earned 1/2 credit in PE/personal finance' is a little bit motivating.  Your mileage may definitely vary on that one, though!  

[teachermom2834]

Those things are so easy to do in an informal and natural way if you find you need them on a self created transcript I am sure you will find you can add .5 credits of health or technology or personal finance or whatever. It’s really not that hard. I don’t think colleges care at all but my kids had what was required for public school grads in our state. While it isn’t necessary, as I said on another thread, I do think there are some hoops that are so easy to jump through that you might as well jump. 
 

While not necessary, you are probably doing them in the course of parenting and if you find you do need or want them I suspect you could recreate what you have done in a course description or quickly add something in to create the necessary credit. You don’t need to plan, schedule, and complete a formal course to make this happen. 
 

My dd is in brick and mortar school and I still don’t like those classes taking up time in her schedule but they are required. She is taking health this summer and will take personal finance next summer because I still want her school time filled with more worthwhile academic courses. I just can’t completely give up my control of the transcript. 

[Roadrunner]

You said public school kids are required, not homeschool. That’s the difference. 

[Alice]

For my oldest who homeschooled through high school I didn't put PE on the transcript, even though it is a required class for graduation in our state. I also didn't put any fine arts credits but he did play piano and do some theater. I listed them as extracurriculars instead. I didn't feel like I could list as both and that was just the way we chose to do it. 

My second son homeschooled for 9th grade and then started 10th grade in public school. I had always heard from homeschoolers that the schools wouldn't accept credit and the county website made it clear that they might not. Our experience was that they accepted everything, even completely home designed classes. The one class he wanted to make sure he got credit for was 9th grade PE since he didn't want to have to take two years in high school. So I put a PE/Health credit on his transcript and in the course description just described things that we had done as part of home life "Student participated in a variety of sports and physical activities including swimming, running, biking, rock climbing, skateboarding and hiking. Student discussed sexual education, drug and alcohol education and nutrition especially as pertaining to a vegan diet." or something like that. I had no qualms about calling it a credit even though we hadn't counted hours or done anything formal. And they accepted it no problem. I would have done the same thing if for some reason my oldest had applied to a school that required PE/Health as a credit. 

[Drama Llama]

40 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

You said public school kids are required, not homeschool. That’s the difference. 

We're in a state where there aren't any requirements for homeschool kids and transcripts.  If I homeschool I'm required to teach English, but there's nothing about how much, or how many credits or anything.  Yet, I'm sure everyone here agrees that if I issued a high school transcript with only 1 credit of English for 4 years, I'd be doing my kid a huge disservice in the college process.  Similarly, it requires homeschooling parents to teach some math, but doesn't specify algebra or geometry, but again I think there's agreement that courses with that content, or courses that have them as prerequisites belong on a high school transcript.  

So, I'm just trying to figure out what is the floor so to speak, the things that need to be on every transcript.  As opposed to things like calculus, or piano that parents should offer when appropriate to an individual kid.  

 

[Roadrunner]

29 minutes ago, BandH said:

We're in a state where there aren't any requirements for homeschool kids and transcripts.  If I homeschool I'm required to teach English, but there's nothing about how much, or how many credits or anything.  Yet, I'm sure everyone here agrees that if I issued a high school transcript with only 1 credit of English for 4 years, I'd be doing my kid a huge disservice in the college process.  Similarly, it requires homeschooling parents to teach some math, but doesn't specify algebra or geometry, but again I think there's agreement that courses with that content, or courses that have them as prerequisites belong on a high school transcript.  

So, I'm just trying to figure out what is the floor so to speak, the things that need to be on every transcript.  As opposed to things like calculus, or piano that parents should offer when appropriate to an individual kid.  

 

Right. That’s why I am saying if your state doesn’t require homeschoolers to have certain credits, I would leave out health and PE. We are in CA where the state also requires PS kids to have health and PE, but my homeschool kid didn’t have those on his. 
To me the best floor is four years of each - math, science, foreign language, social science. Since we were interested in state schools, we followed our state’s requirements and also had a visual performing arts credit. So make the entrance requirements into whichever university you are interested in your floor. And then layer electives. 

[Lori D.]

3 hours ago, BandH said:

... I'm just trying to figure out what is the floor so to speak, the things that need to be on every transcript.  As opposed to things like calculus, or piano that parents should offer when appropriate to an individual kid.  

See the list of credits I posted up-thread. That is the floor for basic college prep to a standard (non top tier / non selective or competitive) college.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

On 6/30/2023 at 8:05 PM, klmama said:

I made sure my dc studied what was needed for college admission.  I also made sure they were on track with courses required in the local public or private schools in case they had to finish high school there for some unexpected reason (I knew someone whose dc transferred in and had to take an extra year to get in the required courses to graduate).  So, yes, my dc took P.E. and health. 

I'm not sure what instrument(s) your ds plays currently.  If he doesn't yet know how to play piano, getting started on that may be helpful.  Also, the freshman music theory course tends to weed out a lot of students, so going in with a solid foundation would help.  
 

In the states we lived in, credit was rarely granted for homeschool courses, so we would have struggled to get credits for core courses, let alone PE or health. 

There were several courses I didn't do as a specific course, though the related content was incorporated into our lives.

[Kristini2]

As has been mentioned here, thinking of the floor/minimum can be a big disservice to a college bound kid. While you likely can get into a college with 4 English, 3 science, 2 social studies, etc. You really need to look at the colleges and majors your child is interested in, and find not just what the minimum is, but what they are wanting/expecting from admitted students. My youngest is all over the board as far as the type of college she wants to attend and her possible major, so we are sticking with 4+ credits each of the main 5 -- math, science, English, social studies, LOTE -- like was mentioned above. As far as what level is the minimum for any subject it depends on the kid. Mine is interested in science and/or fine arts so I would say the floor for her in math is calculus to keep her competitive for a possible science major. For your son interested in music, calc might not be needed. Mine will have a lot of fine art electives, but others may not need any fine arts or only need one credit. I think the reason you aren't getting the answer you want here is because there is no one standard for homeschoolers. I really would look into college expectations for the schools/majors in which your kids are interested, especially if either is considering competitive schools, and go from there.  

[ScoutTN]

On 7/2/2023 at 5:51 AM, Sebastian (a lady) said:

In the states we lived in, credit was rarely granted for homeschool courses, so we would have struggled to get credits for core courses, let alone PE or health. 

There were several courses I didn't do as a specific course, though the related content was incorporated into our lives.

Yes, high school here is all or nothing. Brick n mortar schools don’t take homeschool credits. 

[Penelope]

On 7/2/2023 at 4:30 PM, Kristini2 said:

As has been mentioned here, thinking of the floor/minimum can be a big disservice to a college bound kid. While you likely can get into a college with 4 English, 3 science, 2 social studies, etc. You really need to look at the colleges and majors your child is interested in, and find not just what the minimum is, but what they are wanting/expecting from admitted students. My youngest is all over the board as far as the type of college she wants to attend and her possible major, so we are sticking with 4+ credits each of the main 5 -- math, science, English, social studies, LOTE -- like was mentioned above. As far as what level is the minimum for any subject it depends on the kid. Mine is interested in science and/or fine arts so I would say the floor for her in math is calculus to keep her competitive for a possible science major. For your son interested in music, calc might not be needed. Mine will have a lot of fine art electives, but others may not need any fine arts or only need one credit. I think the reason you aren't getting the answer you want here is because there is no one standard for homeschoolers. I really would look into college expectations for the schools/majors in which your kids are interested, especially if either is considering competitive schools, and go from there.  

Yes, we shoot for at least 4 years of each of the five primary academic areas. That can be adjusted junior and senior year for a student who wants to be more “pointy” and take 2 or 3 foreign languages, or lots of extra English or science courses. 
 

I think foreign language is an easy one to get tripped up on. I’ve seen a couple of times that it gets pushed off to the last two years because only two years are required in the state. Then dc wants to apply to a school that expects 3 or 4 years. They still may get in, but it’s best to avoid that kind of limitation when you easily can. 
 

I figure colleges couldn’t care less about PE or health on the transcript. Not all private schools require or have PE listed, either. An umbrella school or other accredited program for homeschoolers might want it listed. Calling PE a course can be a good idea for those kids who hit high school and don’t have a sport and need some kind of motivator to be active; you can tell them they need to log x hours every week doing something. If kids are more into sports and very active as my next couple are, I plan to list those activities as extracurriculars and not PE. 

[turkeypotpie]

As many others have done above, we took a close look at what colleges were looking for on their admissions pages and worked backwards. There are huge overlaps with most schools, and the basic 5x4 + electives is a real simple starting point.

I also found it very helpful to seek out the curriculum guides posted online from our local high schools. The larger schools had extensive public documents that not only broke down the expected credits for the standard brick-and-mortar state requirements, but also suggested accelerated or college-prep tracks that I could compare against our own homeschool plans if I wanted to roughly mirror a competitive home curriculum. I even did a wider search by looking at some of the curriculum guides from America's "top high schools" via Niche to get an idea of what some of the "top tier" private schools plan out for their curriculum for inspiration. 

For some states and colleges, it is worth noting the importance of GPA calculations with how classes are classified. E.g., in most of my state publics, they will calculate GPA for admissions primarily from core classes (ELA/Math/Sci/Social Sci/Language) on a standardized web application with higher weight for honors, AP, and DE. 

[catz]

I am late to this thread, but when figuring this out I looked at state requirements, local high end prep school requirements and college requirements.   I didn't stick exactly to state requirements, I looked closer at college minimums.

Both my kids ended up with 4 English, 4 Science w/lab, 4 Math, 4+ social studies, 4+ music (would count as art), 2 PE (various activities), health.  2 FL.  And then a slew of electives.  Some ended up on transcript, some didn't.  I think our state requirements were 21.5 credits.  Both my kids end up with over 30 credits transcripted.   The both had things that would cover a tech requirement, but especially my STEM kid.  Dual enrollment was a great way to fill things out.  

For some kids dividing the line on what to count for credit and what to count as an extracurricular can be hard.  Like my kids did a lot of music.  So private lesson study w/daily practice I counted as music credit, maybe with independant theory study.  Labelled honors because it was much more advanced and rigorous than your average B&M school music experience.  But we counted stuff like orchestra, ensembles, groups, auditioned opportunities, musical theater as extracurriculars.  Structured technique dance classes were PE.  Dance shows were extracurricular.  

Like I feel like for base requirements a state flagship's requirements might not be that different than high end privates.  I also wouldn't let a year of something like FL put a kid off applying to a school that is otherwise a fit and affordable.   Like I do a know a homeschooler at any ivy that had no FL at all.  If you get into one of these schools, it's because you are a good fit for some institutional need(s) and there's just not great ways to know that other than sensing your kid might be a fit.  

Anyway - my oldest was music AND STEM (and he was at a rigorous STEM program, T10 for major). My younger just auditioned for music programs and is going in the fall.  You are welcome to PM me at any point if you have questions about the (ridiculous) music admissions process.  

@8filltheheartYes, all music majors learn some keyboard.  If it works to start piano early, that is great.  We know plenty of students who didn't start until college. My youngest plunks around but will mostly be starting in college.  She is also a vocalist and a violinist.   My older kid tested entirely out of piano and was given the option of private lessons if he wanted at his music program.  He was an advanced pianist but piano was not his primary instrument in college.  So there can be advantages to being ahead.  In particular for students who would like to double major or maybe have more time for other performance or instruments.  

[8filltheheart]

I'd love to read about the music audition process.  I have been thinking about my youngest's path a lot lately.  She is an advanced student (even having lost most of last school yr to growing 7 inches and hormones.....her brains fell out of her head!)  She'll be taking almost all high school courses as an 8th grader (geometry, biology, American history, and Russian). So she is on target to graduate at similar levels to her 2 advanced, competitive siblings.  The entire voice and violin just really complicates things in my mind!  Is majroing in EE (her other interest) and music even a realistic thought?  (One she has talked about since she went to an engineering camp this summer.)  From what I understand about music majors, music is all consuming.

[RoundAbout]

On 6/30/2023 at 8:34 PM, 8filltheheart said:

Can you explain the bolded?  I have no idea if my dd is going to want to pursue music (she will be an accomplished violinist and singer by the time she graduates....she is already heading in that direction).  She is only a rising 8th grader and after an engineering camp this summer is now saying EE.  Who knows.  But, if she does decide to pursue something in music, do all music majors need to know how to play the piano?  Theory makes sense.  But I'm not sure why a violinist would need to know how to play the piano.

Just to add to the chorus, my DS's music teacher told us that most undergrad music programs require piano proficiency. 

[mlktwins]

Looking back, these were some things that were important to my boys. Mine both did 5 years of math (our area includes 8th grade Algebra on the public high school transcript so I included it on mine) and also AP Stats (AP Calc and AP Stats senior year). They are both business majors, but we wanted a Calc on their transcripts (which we believe helped them) and also wanted a strong class schedule for senior year. They took 4 years English, 4 years of lab science, 4 years of the same foreign language and 4.5 credits of social studies. We did PE/Health and fine arts too.

We found that course requirements varied for the VA schools they were interested in. We had them all covered with what we did -- LOL. One school specifically required 1 credit of fine arts, but none of the others did. Looking back, I wish mine had done a couple more AP or DE classes (they took 3 APs and 1 DE), but not because of college admissions. One of mine is coming in with 16 credits and knocked out a nice bit of gen ed requirements plus his Stats business pre-req. At his school, he is also exempt from the foreign language graduation requirement because he has 4 years of the same language on his high school transcript. If he had only 3 years, he would have had to take the placement exam and 2 years of foreign language there. That was nice. For his twin, 4 years of foreign language didn't matter because it isn't required for his degree although some was required for the application process. 

The other is coming in with 13 credits because his school doesn't accept CLEP (the twin got the credit at his school). 

I guess all this to say, I would definitely start looking at schools he may be interested in to see what their admission course requirements are. One of the dean of admissions at UVA has a blog and this is what she wrote:

1. All of your core classes are important.

A lot of people focus on the core areas that correspond to their current academic interest. I've even had people wave off certain subjects because they aren't interested in them or they don't come "naturally" to them. I wish they'd stop this. High school is the time to get a broad foundation in several areas and college is the time to specialize. We most concerned with a student's work in core areas (in alpha order, not order of importance): English, Math, Science, Social Science, and World Language. 

 

While mine didn't get in, admissions rate was about 16% this year, but hey were both waitlisted when there were a lot of outright rejections. We focused mainly on those core areas for all of high school to build a strong foundation. I didn't read what UVA looks for until they were preparing to apply, but felt good that we had that covered. I would deviate from that if you are looking at a specific major (like CS or Engineering, Music, etc.) and add classes that would make the application stronger for those majors.

 

I'm feeling wordy today - sorry -- LOL!

 

 

 

[catz]

4 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

  Is majroing in EE (her other interest) and music even a realistic thought?  (One she has talked about since she went to an engineering camp this summer.)  From what I understand about music majors, music is all consuming.

My older kid did a BS CS and music (vocal).  What I would say is it's for a kid that enjoys academics more than a social life.  LOL.  For real - music WAS the social life part of college for him.  What I would also say is a some music teachers at competitive audiitoned programs are borderline to negative on students doing double degree.  Even at schools that tout double degree ALL over their marketing materials.  Specifically an engineering double degree won't be an option everywhere.  Junior year I might try to visit a few and have sample lessons and ask hard questions about double degree if that is a path of interest at that time.

Since your child is an 8th grader, lots of time to sort that through.  Nice not to be in a hurry and to let those brains wobble about through puberty.  My kid was a serious pianist in middle school and playing advanced rep.  But he changed his mind on college direcion a number of times through those years.  He had test scores to apply anywhere, lots of DE, etc.  Both my kids did some high school level classes in middle school.  

If a double degree especially in a STEM are or engineering is of interest, I'd consider public universities where your kid made a good contact in the music departmnet and a good engineering program.  Also doing like a BA music is still possible and much more flexible than competitive BM programs.  

[8filltheheart]

Thanks @catz.  I will start looking into BA and BM programs to understand the difference.

[Gil]

On 6/29/2023 at 3:54 PM, BandH said:

If you're in a state that doesn't set graduation requirements for homeschoolers, what things do you think need to be on the transcript to legitimately graduate your child?  What things do colleges expect to see?  I'm thinking of both level (e.g. a certain level in math) and subjects?

How do you decide?
 

We're in a state where public school students are required to take P.E., health, art and technology.  Does that mean homeschooled students should too? 

My state doesn't require anything in particular of home schoolers for High School graduation so I've taken that as a license to pretty much do as a I please educationally.

If your child is aiming for college, then check with the colleges that they're interested in and see what they want incoming students to have.

[klmama]

On 7/19/2023 at 6:34 AM, 8filltheheart said:

Is majroing in EE (her other interest) and music even a realistic thought?  (One she has talked about since she went to an engineering camp this summer.)  From what I understand about music majors, music is all consuming.

I've known a couple of people who went university excited that they were allowed them to double major in engineering and music.  While the admissions staff made it all sound doable, the reality was that their music professors were antagonistic toward everything engineering-related and their engineering professors were antagonistic toward everything music-related.  The time commitment for each major was huge, and there was no way the students could sustain the effort required to do both well.  Both students ended up dropping the music major, although one managed to get a music minor.  They still perform music for fun and are quite good at it.