This is just a vent......and I am nervous-UPDATE

[DawnM]

UPDATE:

 

She is no longer there, she was let go.

 

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE

I run over 200 meetings per year.   Each meeting requires a teacher and an admin to attend in order to be legal.   We also prefer the parents to be there, but it isn't legally required.   They are always invited.   The one particular school I work in is a nightmare to get people to actually attend.   I have tried and tried and certain people always come but there are a few who are spotty and one admin who simply refuses to come.   When I send the calendar invites, she doesn't respond with yes or no and has just stopped coming completely.

My bosses downtown told me Wed that they didn't realize things were as bad as they were for me and want to have a meeting Monday with the principal of the school, them, and me.   They asked me to pull up data of at least my last 25 meetings and which administrator was invited and if they showed up or not.

The one who doesn't come?   She was 12 of those 25 and she came to none of them and didn't communicate with me, nor did she respond with yes or no to the invites.   

I am going to spend today at least going through the 2nd set of 25 meetings just because I want to clearly show her behavior.   I know at one point they told me to log things with her because they were talking about not renewing her contract for next year.   I sure hope they don't.

Here is my issue.  If she is not let go.....I have to work with her again next year.   She is already angry at me (incident listed below) and this will send her over the edge and make it far worse.   Ultimately, that isn't my problem as it is her problem and I will continue to log whatever I need to log for data to prove it, but I hate being this adversarial at work.

 

Incident that made her hate me (apparently).

We had a student get suspended for like the 5th time in the school year.   Because the student has a disability, we had to have a time sensitive meeting with the parent.   I was told Mr. Jones (not his real name) the AP, would be at the meeting.   I was a little surprised because I knew that Ms. Watson (again, not her real name) was the student's AP.   Well, within 24 hours she called me on the phone and went on a long diatribe about how this student was hers, SHE should be handling it, not Mr. Jones, and she wanted ME to include her on every single thing that had to do with this student.   At this point I realize that the principal is intentionally giving the case to Mr. Jones and doesn't want her involved, so that of course put me in a very awkward situation.

Ms. Watson also asked me to write down her entire conversation with me and email it to her to log our interaction.   I told her I would not be doing that but she could do it if she wanted to.   (I know what that means, it means she has been put on "notice" and has to log her activities to prove she is working and doing her job and I am not getting involved or doing her job!)

So, for this incident, I invited BOTH assistant principals.   Guess which one didn't show up?   After all that?

The next time she saw me, she visibly hung her head and shook it like "Oh brother, here she is again."   It was so rude!   And unwarranted.   

Since that incident, she has refused to interact with me or come to meetings.   This is her first year as an AP and she is horrible.

 

CONCLUSION:

I know there isn't much advice to give.   I was told to do something and I have to do it and honestly, I am glad it is finally coming out and not really from me "squealing."   However, it will probably seem to this person that I am throwing her under the bus.    

If you have any thoughts, please give them before the you know what hits the fan.

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by DawnM

[Katy]

Well the good news is they’re going to fire her with cause, so the more documentation you have the better. 

[DawnM]

8 minutes ago, Katy said:

Well the good news is they’re going to fire her with cause, so the more documentation you have the better. 

I should have added that our principal is a wimp and has only ever let one person go in the last 18 years he has been the principal.   So it isn't a done deal by ANY stretch.   In fact, I will be SHOCKED if he follows through with not renewing her contract.

So this could be beneficial or deeply harmful.

[Lecka]

It sounds like this is a situation where you want and need to do the right thing, but it might end poorly for you.  I hope it doesn’t, but I think this is part of the sometimes unfair world of being and adult and being a person of character.

You are the person with a good character in this situation!!!!!!!!!!

I really believe there are so many rewards to this even though sometimes it causes problems.  

[catz]

I would give the principal ALL that info and on how she's been very difficult to deal with since that incident.

[MercyA]

32 minutes ago, DawnM said:

They asked me to pull up data of at least my last 25 meetings and which administrator was invited and if they showed up or not.

It's just data. It's not personal. She didn't show; she isn't doing her job. You're doing your job by keeping track of things.

Try to ignore her. 

I'm sorry you have to deal with this, and hope that you won't have to deal with it much longer. 🙂 

Hugs to you.

[cintinative]

i have an ignorant question because i don't know how school admin works. If the principal is not responsive regarding a VP with recalcitrant issues, can someone go to the school board?

[SKL]

Having to be involved in disciplining or terminating another adult is so hard.  Nobody likes it (at least I hope they don't!).  It sounds like you are doing exactly what you should and need to do.  All I can do is wish you well and hope the school also does the right thing.

Some people just aren't cut out for the job they were hired for.  This lady needs to be helped out of this career so she can seek one that suits her better.

[DawnM]

Thank you for the support.   I do appreciate it.   We will see what happens.  I. mean, I can't back out of being involved so I must go forward with all of it, it is just stressful.

She didn't show to two of my meetings yesterday, even with emails saying, "The parents are here!   Please come to my room for the meeting" she ignored it.   It was EVERYTHING in me not to send an email saying, "Look lady, it would be really great if you could do your job for once, and you need to know I am documenting everything you lazy *ss administrator!"

But I didn't.....aren't you proud of me?   (you know I am joking, I would never say that other than in my head.)

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, cintinative said:

i have an ignorant question because i don't know how school admin works. If the principal is not responsive regarding a VP with recalcitrant issues, can someone go to the school board?

Not really, but we do have an admin in charge of the entire area.  Our district is broken up into what are called learning communities and each learning community (usually 3 or 4 high schools and then all of their feeder schools) and I could certainly escalate it to that person, however, it gets a little complicated because I am a district employee rather than a school based employee so I have to really go through my supervisor in the district office first, which I did.   He is the one meeting with me and the principal Monday.   So I am hoping this will help things.

Ultimately, this isn't *MY* issue, it is the issue of the downtown folks who say I need the admin in meetings and it is up to them to tell the principals what needs to happen.   But it is a bit of a weak system.

[Ali in OR]

Is the requirement to have an admin there a legal requirement? I go to IEP meetings as a gen ed teacher from time to time. I've been at a few this year where the meeting is run by someone from the district office instead of the student's case manager, and I'm guessing from the formal way those meetings are run is that our district is VERY concerned about making sure everything is done right to protect itself legally (fear of lawsuit). So if there is a legal requirement for the admin to be there and they just don't come, I would think that opens up your district to lawsuits and they should be VERY interested in getting that issue resolved by either firing or retraining/reprimanding that admin.  They are putting the district at risk.

[KrissiK]

I am so sorry. I am a gen ed teacher and I know it is so hard to coordinate these meetings and then when you have people giving you all kinds of grief….

[DawnM]

40 minutes ago, Ali in OR said:

Is the requirement to have an admin there a legal requirement? I go to IEP meetings as a gen ed teacher from time to time. I've been at a few this year where the meeting is run by someone from the district office instead of the student's case manager, and I'm guessing from the formal way those meetings are run is that our district is VERY concerned about making sure everything is done right to protect itself legally (fear of lawsuit). So if there is a legal requirement for the admin to be there and they just don't come, I would think that opens up your district to lawsuits and they should be VERY interested in getting that issue resolved by either firing or retraining/reprimanding that admin.  They are putting the district at risk.

Technically, yes, however, they have kind of turned a blind eye and probably will UNTIL there are significant complaints and lawsuits.

[AmandaVT]

Wow, 200 meetings a year?? I'm closer to 50, and that's hard to juggle with my caseload! Do you provide all the services too? I'm in a bit of a sticky situation right now with one of our admin and I was given a good phrase to use if he decides to turn his anger toward me - "I hear that you're angry, but I am not owning this."

[DawnM]

8 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

Wow, 200 meetings a year?? I'm closer to 50, and that's hard to juggle with my caseload! Do you provide all the services too? I'm in a bit of a sticky situation right now with one of our admin and I was given a good phrase to use if he decides to turn his anger toward me - "I hear that you're angry, but I am not owning this."

No, I don't do all the other counseling duties, I have a specialized position.   

I think that phrase will make her angrier.   But you are right, I should have a learned/canned phrase to use.

[Lecka]

I have had a rude vice-principal who was supposed to be “LEA” whatever (making sure kids aren’t being put in a restrictive placement without reason) and had her skip IEP meetings where her name was on the attendance sheet.

 

My thought was always “good, I don’t want her here anyways.”

 

Which is not the right attitude for me to have but it was how I felt.

 

But I was also in a situation where I wasn’t worried about things and *she was supposed to be there to protect my child’s rights.*

[PeterPan]

I'm surprised they're not making you sign excusal consent forms to cover their butts or having you reschedule. 

I would assume they're going to do the right thing and solve this problem. That's a pretty crazy stat (12/25). Think positive.

[DawnM]

7 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I have had a rude vice-principal who was supposed to be “LEA” whatever (making sure kids aren’t being put in a restrictive placement without reason) and had her skip IEP meetings where her name was on the attendance sheet.

 

My thought was always “good, I don’t want her here anyways.”

 

Which is not the right attitude for me to have but it was how I felt.

 

But I was also in a situation where I wasn’t worried about things and *she was supposed to be there to protect my child’s rights.*

I completely get that and that is often my motto as well, but lately, parents have been really pushy and I have really needed an admin to say "no, you cannot get X or Y because it isn't school policy" and not make me the heavy hand.

And I have had 2 situations recently where the parents are now mad about some things and I shouldn't have had to deal with it alone.   If any of them sue we are all in huge trouble.

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

I'm surprised they're not making you sign excusal consent forms to cover their butts or having you reschedule. 

I would assume they're going to do the right thing and solve this problem. That's a pretty crazy stat (12/25). Think positive.

You would assume......but that is not usually the case.

Just thinking positive doesn't elicit change.  There are actions that need to happen.

[PeterPan]

1 minute ago, DawnM said:

actions that need to happen

voodoo doll?

[Katy]

I think I would do my best to shift my attitude to be angry at her for wasting your time and not doing her job rather than be concerned that a completely incompetent and lazy person might be angry at me for being honest about her lack of work. Showing up isn’t even hard work. 

[DawnM]

6 minutes ago, Katy said:

I think I would do my best to shift my attitude to be angry at her for wasting your time and not doing her job rather than be concerned that a completely incompetent and lazy person might be angry at me for being honest about her lack of work. Showing up isn’t even hard work. 

Thank you, I know I need to work on that.

[DawnM]

7 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

voodoo doll?

GREAT IDEA!   

I really want a damnit doll for my office, but not sure if I should have something with a swearword on it.

[Lecka]

They are getting the admin money, they need to step up and be the person parents get mad at!!!!!!!!

[Lecka]

I was just saying…. As a parent it is my role for some things because “I” don’t work there and “I” can easily send an email to the principal or district special Ed office if I want to.  And I know it’s wrong for them to hold meetings without everyone present who was invited.  Especially if it’s a determination meeting or a change of placement or a transition or something like that.  But sometimes it’s like — I just don’t care even though I know it’s wrong.

 

But I have really learned that some things are for a parent to address because we don’t work there, we don’t have to worry about someone being mad at us, etc.  

 

I did not understand anything like that at first but now I do.  
 

Not that I think I should have to do things, but I have more of a sense of — well this is this person’s workplace and they are in the position they are in, it doesn’t mean they support it.  
 

But yeah you deserve other people doing their jobs!!!!!!!!  
 

I hope the principal will do some senior level administrating here so that you can do your own job properly!

 

But really I hope it’s not too awkward and that things go as well as possible!!!!!!!

[DawnM]

5 hours ago, Lecka said:

I was just saying…. As a parent it is my role for some things because “I” don’t work there and “I” can easily send an email to the principal or district special Ed office if I want to.  And I know it’s wrong for them to hold meetings without everyone present who was invited.  Especially if it’s a determination meeting or a change of placement or a transition or something like that.  But sometimes it’s like — I just don’t care even though I know it’s wrong.

Yeah, and some of our parents don't care.   I had one say not to start the meeting until admin was there and I knew he would take about 30 additional minutes to finish what he was working on, so we just sat there, ended up having the meeting go way after school hours, but what could I do?

5 hours ago, Lecka said:

 

But I have really learned that some things are for a parent to address because we don’t work there, we don’t have to worry about someone being mad at us, etc.  

 

I did not understand anything like that at first but now I do.  
 

Not that I think I should have to do things, but I have more of a sense of — well this is this person’s workplace and they are in the position they are in, it doesn’t mean they support it.  
 

But yeah you deserve other people doing their jobs!!!!!!!!  
 

I hope the principal will do some senior level administrating here so that you can do your own job properly!

 

But really I hope it’s not too awkward and that things go as well as possible!!!!!!!

 

[footballmom]

I bet Downtown is asking for data because this AP has trends of shrugging their responsibility across multiple area. Natural consequences of her choices

[DawnM]

UPDATE:   She is not at the school this year.   She was let go.   The stuff with me was just a fraction of the issues they have had with her.

[Jaybee]

6 minutes ago, DawnM said:

UPDATE:   She is not at the school this year.   She was let go.   The stuff with me was just a fraction of the issues they have had with her.

Well that's a big stressor you don't have to deal with this year! I'm never glad when someone needs to be let go, but I'm glad for your sake that you don't have to try to get things done with someone uncooperative stopping it.

[Grace Hopper]

What a relief! Not only for you, but for all the others who were apparently also having difficulty with her. 

[Catwoman]

YAY for the happy update! You have been overdue for some good news!!!

[QueenCat]

Awesome news!!!

[wintermom]

So glad to hear that this situation have been resolved positively for you! 

Edited August 29, 2023 by wintermom

[Faith-manor]

Wonderful! So glad she is gone. I hope you have a far better year.

[Kassia]

2 hours ago, DawnM said:

UPDATE:   She is not at the school this year.   She was let go.   The stuff with me was just a fraction of the issues they have had with her.

What a relief!  🙂  🙂