No one doing any work for group project - need advice!

[Clarita]

My suggestion would be find out how grading is going to work, and who is going to be the grader. (It seems like she already did that and it'll be clear that she worked hard on the project, but it is going to be an incomplete project in the end.) Since that's the case do her best on her portion and try to be focused on how well you did your own part. There is no reason for her to be embarrassed about not having the whole thing be done.  Tell her to stop doing the other members parts leave those undone and tell the members that she will be doing so. (I don't know what the project is so, it may not be 100% possible but only do as much as necessary to get her own part as good as it can be.) . Then remember who these people are and never hire them or recommend them for a job, because actually in a job environment similar things happen because it takes a while to fire a person. 

Remind her she is already in a toxic environment. Honestly it's not worth her time to worry that those teammates will be mad at her. In her working life there are also going to be people who are going to be mad at her because she asked them to do their job. She should tell her manager and it is the manager's job to deal with it, whether it is to tell her to back down, or to start putting pressure on the other employee or switch groups. 

I absolutely feel for her. I think the problem with group projects in college is not that they exist, because I often had to work in a group and deal with same group dynamics at work, but that no one teaches the students how to actually do it. They never teach students what you should do when it's not working like you imagined it could.

[Bootsie]

18 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I think a big part of the problem is the motivation differences within the group - some members might be happy with a C- so they can just pass while others (like my dd) want to get the highest grade possible.  

 

This is likely at the root of the problem--and it is not something that the TA can "fix".  The TA (or the professor) can't make the other students want a better grade or want to learn.  I would encourage your daugther to focus on what she is learning (some of which is course content and some is about working with others) and not so much on whether she is receiving the highest grade possible. 

[Arcadia]

My group for postgraduate computer science are majority “slackers”. There were 5 of us in each group and our first meeting for each group project would be to delegate out the work. For example, the most hardworking team member is bad at coding and would do most of the documentation by choice. The team member who wants to get her part done and forget about it pick a module that can be easily tested as a standalone. I get to do the debugging and consolidation so am busy only when my teammates are either done or stuck in programming their assigned modules. My lecturers are well aware of all group dynamics since my cohort is less than 30 students.

What I meant was having a clear delegation of tasks help whether for academics or work. Send a group email, similar to meeting minutes, when the task delegation is negotiated and decided. When it comes to time critical tasks for work, the higher up needs to know the delegation of work in case someone is out sick (e.g. emergency surgery). The higher ups need to reassign the tasks to someone else temporarily or do it themselves.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Arcadia
typo

[Bootsie]

I don't know what the details of this project are.  As a professor, however, I do try to create group projects (in classes where they are appropriate) that are really team projects and effforts.  If it is a project where she can do "her part" and the other parts just aren't done, then it isn't really a group project.  It is a serious of individual projects pasted togteher.  For example, if I assign a group project on Switzerland--and one student research and writes about the topography of Switzerland and another student writes about the economy of Switzerland and another student writes about the political situation in Switzerland and then the three parts are glued together in a single report it isn't really a group project.  I do not see much value in those types of projects (although it does make it easier when there is a team member not pulling their weight--you simply grade their part as a 0).  

[EKS]

Also, just to point out, in my former life, I hired many recent college grads (this was throughout the 1990s).  I'm sure that group work was not a thing for them either, and the vast majority of them were able to make the jump to working as a team.  Probably because it isn't that big of a deal.

I'd argue that students who don't do their share of the work on group assignments in school, and who still get the grade that the ones who actually did the work earned, are being trained that it is ok to shirk their responsibilities on the job.  As a manager, I'd much rather deal with someone who never experienced group work in college than the person who learned that particular "lesson" in the name of "real world" experience.

[HomeAgain]

NM

 

We have very different ideas on how to prepare children to transition to adulthood and taking over those responsibilities.

Edited February 25, 2023 by HomeAgain

[KSera]

12 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

NM

 

We have very different ideas on how to prepare children to transition to adulthood and taking over those responsibilities.

I missed it, but I don't know if we do or don't overall, only that this particular circumstance seems perfectly adult-like to me, and would be a totally normal situation for a Hive parent who was back in college themself to crowd source ideas for solving as well. It would be a different manner entirely if OP was trying to talk to the professor or something. That would be totally inappropriate. Ideas for problem solving? Totally adult to ask other adults for ideas.

[Kassia]

18 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

NM

 

We have very different ideas on how to prepare children to transition to adulthood and taking over those responsibilities.

I'm not worried about her transition to adulthood.  Dd is the youngest of 4 and her older siblings are very independent and responsible young adults.  And she's plenty independent and responsible on her own - sometimes I wish she were less independent when she's incredibly stubborn and won't take my advice even though I know better.  😛

[HomeAgain]

Just now, KSera said:

I missed it, but I don't know if we do or don't overall, only that this particular circumstance seems perfectly adult-like to me, and would be a totally normal situation for a Hive parent who was back in college themself to crowd source ideas for solving as well. It would be a different manner entirely if OP was trying to talk to the professor or something. That would be totally inappropriate. Ideas for problem solving? Totally adult to ask other adults for ideas.

It is one thing for me, the student, to source ideas and decide what to do.  That would be a mature decision.

It is entirely different for me to go to my mommy, my mommy decide to crowd source ideas, bring them back to me, and present me with options.  That is not a sign of maturity and does not expect growth from the person with the problem.

That is the sticking point.  I cannot see that this thread is actually going to help an adult student learn the necessary techniques to problem solving.  If I started this thread I would not be doing my job as a parent to help my child learn how to succeed.  I would be doing it for them. My job, for my adult child, is:

• listen
• ask questions (what do you need to do to cover your bases?)
• help them learn to find solutions (ex. "what do you think your options are here?")
• give my own opinion if asked
• step back and watch.

[SHP]

2 hours ago, Arcadia said:

@Indigo Blue in the workplace, “slackers” get by through being good at flattering the boss. Or the person is very near retirement age and the boss doesn’t want to be accused of ageism so let the person slack for a few years. 
 

For the OP’s case, her daughter’s group mates are not going to do anything because they know her daughter cares about grades. So they can do nothing and OP’s daughter would still do the work to maintain her GPA.  
When I was in engineering school, we had a presentation and q&a for each project so it was obvious who didn’t even bother to read the submitted project. My lecturers would just tell us to individually explain the portion we did and ask us questions. 

At my husband's work the guy who does nothing is the direct supervisor and gets away with it because the others care about each other and will do his job for him so that no one gets screwed over. They all complain about it but none of them are willing to let the really big consequences happen to him since they know that it will first have an immediate direct and negative impact on the person who is working at that time and no one wants to to do that to another. The direct supervisor knows and takes advantage of this. He probably mastered this during college group projects, kidding. Not really. 

Some people are jerks. They will find a way to get a paycheck and not do the work.

 

The only suggestion for anyone in that posting is to document by creating a paper trail. Minimal face to face and follow up face to face with an email summary of the exchange. Never wait for word of mouth. 

[Clemsondana]

A few thoughts based on the combined experience that spouse and I have being TAs, instructors, and students.  

-It really stinks when you can't put together your own good group.  After some frustration early on, I had the same lab partner for multiple lab classes my last 2 years of college.  We planned our schedules together.  Spouse, a computer engineering major who had lots of group work because, similar to your daughter's work, that's often what it takes to do a meaningful project, took classes with the same 4-person group for 2 years.  

-A TA may not have the authority to do much about this type of situation.  When I TA'd, I could make judgement calls about assigning points on a quiz or accepting work a day late but couldn't have decided to drop or significantly alter a major assignment.  The TAs were the only instructors that they saw in the labs, but we couldn't make changes to the syllabus - those had to go through the course coordinator.  

-A professor might adjust the assignment, but will not do it if they aren't asked.  There can be some feeling that if a student has a problem that needs the attention of the instructor, then the student will ask.  Accommodations can be made to address a particular issue, but if the instructor proactively makes an offer of an adjusted assignment then they have to offer it to everybody.  It's possible that other students are doing modified assignments due to similar group issues, but the only way to know is to ask.  

-Your daughter doesn't want to make them upset by asking for a change of some sort, but the group likely won't be any happier if, at the end, they find out that they are getting a zero.  If fear of them being upset is the major deterrent, then talking so the professor now is less likely to lead to a bad outcome just because there is time for them to step up, which won't be there at the end of the semester.

-The professor may do nothing anyway, which will be frustrating.  Some faculty are fantastic, and some don't care that much or don't have a good grasp of what the 'real world' looks like.  This isn't a slam on faculty, just that they, like the students, are people and varying levels of good or bad at their jobs.  

[Kassia]

5 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

It is one thing for me, the student, to source ideas and decide what to do.  That would be a mature decision.

It is entirely different for me to go to my mommy, my mommy decide to crowd source ideas, bring them back to me, and present me with options.  That is not a sign of maturity and does not expect growth from the person with the problem.

That is the sticking point.  I cannot see that this thread is actually going to help an adult student learn the necessary techniques to problem solving.  If I started this thread I would not be doing my job as a parent to help my child learn how to succeed.  I would be doing it for them. My job, for my adult child, is:

• listen
• ask questions (what do you need to do to cover your bases?)
• help them learn to find solutions (ex. "what do you think your options are here?")
• give my own opinion if asked
• step back and watch.

She didn't go to "mommy" for help.  She was venting just like you would to a family member or friend.  The last interaction I had with her about this was just her saying that she wanted to go to sleep but didn't want to submit the weekly report that she wrote for the group without any feedback/approval from the other members.  She was hoping to hear from at least one before submitting but that didn't happen and she went ahead and submitted the work.  She wasn't looking for help or advice - she was just frustrated and tired and wanted to vent and I was there for her. 

[Indigo Blue]

I think she’s trapped, though. It seems no one ever does anything about it when these dumb group assignments end up being done by one mature, competent student. What else can she do? No one steps in in these scenarios and straightens it out. Her mom giving advice in this is not going to cripple her very competent, high-achieving daughter from being able to handle herself in the adult world. 
 

What about the immaturity of every other single student in that workgroup? Maybe some of them have little parental involvement, and they are quickly figuring out how to find a loophole in the system and succeed by being lazy and dishonest. 
 

Kassia has obviously instilled a good work ethic in her daughter. She’s going to be fine. 
 

 

[HomeAgain]

2 minutes ago, Kassia said:

She didn't go to "mommy" for help.  She was venting just like you would to a family member or friend.  The last interaction I had with her about this was just her saying that she wanted to go to sleep but didn't want to submit the weekly report that she wrote for the group without any feedback/approval from the other members.  She was hoping to hear from at least one before submitting but that didn't happen and she went ahead and submitted the work.  She wasn't looking for help or advice - she was just frustrated and tired and wanted to vent and I was there for her. 

Then why did you bring it here?

[Kassia]

Just now, HomeAgain said:

Then why did you bring it here?

Because I know there are several professors who post here as well as parents of students who may have encountered this situation and I wanted to see how it was handled.  Obviously I know my daughter has to be the one to deal with this but I was interested in learning about others' experiences on both ends (instructor and student) as well as any resolutions. 

[LinRTX]

3 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

Then why did you bring it here?

Obviously I am not Kassia, but like many mom's of young adults we ask others for help to guide them. Sometimes we are not certain the best advice for a situation so we ask for advice. Or just vent our frustration so we are calmer as we offer advice.

[prairiewindmomma]

I think people are reading this thread differently because you do ask in the OP, “What can/should she do?” That question does imply that you would like feedback from the forum.

Regardless of whether you actually wanted feedback on the issue, I think others are bringing up why you are allowing this to take up space in your brain. I think we all want our kids to do well, but some of us do feel like it’s ok to not take on emotional work for a college senior. It’s a developmentally appropriate problem—and probably a ubiquitous one. 🤦

[EKS]

23 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

It is entirely different for me to go to my mommy, my mommy decide to crowd source ideas, bring them back to me, and present me with options.

What is wrong with the OP being curious about this and asking about it on here?

[Kassia]

3 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I think people are reading this thread differently because you do ask in the OP, “What can/should she do?” That question does imply that you would like feedback from the forum.

 

Thanks for the explanation.  I didn't realize I worded it like that - that could definitely change the way people perceived my intention in posting.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Kassia

[prairiewindmomma]

As for me and mine, when this came up the first time, I had him check his syllabus and then with his TA as to grading parameters. That was a few years ago when he was 17. My kid just had his project partner withdraw from the class and has been left on his own. Last semester he had a class where his partner got COVID and was out for three weeks. I think this has happened several times during his studies. Most professors have some means of checking who is contributing. It’s no different than work life—you communicate, you document, you move on.

ETA: I only hear about it incidentally now—just part of the chatter about school life. The kid needed support problem solving his first semester as he was figuring out the ropes, then he moved on.

Edited February 25, 2023 by prairiewindmomma

[KSera]

27 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

I would be doing it for them. My job, for my adult child, is:

• listen
• ask questions (what do you need to do to cover your bases?)
• help them learn to find solutions (ex. "what do you think your options are here?")
• give my own opinion if asked
• step back and watch.

I guess to me this seems somewhat infantilizing because it’s treating the adult child as someone who needs to be actively parented rather than how you would treat another grown adult who wanted input on a situation.

13 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

Then why did you bring it here?

Isn’t this really common here for people for whom this is kind of their social group where they talk about things? People bring up all kinds of situations here out of curiosity what people think. 

[Kassia]

9 minutes ago, LinRTX said:

Obviously I am not Kassia, but like many mom's of young adults we ask others for help to guide them. Sometimes we are not certain the best advice for a situation so we ask for advice. Or just vent our frustration so we are calmer as we offer advice.

I am very grateful for this forum because I can come here for this and get opinions/advice/different perspectives/wisdom from so many others.  It helps a lot in many situations.  

[Corraleno]

59 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

It is entirely different for me to go to my mommy, my mommy decide to crowd source ideas, bring them back to me, and present me with options.  That is not a sign of maturity and does not expect growth from the person with the problem.

You seem to be purposely framing this in a really loaded way. If a spouse, close friend, or valued co-worker came to me to discuss problems they were having at a work, I can't imagine brushing them off with "you're an adult, you should figure it out on your own" instead of helping them think of solutions. Adults want to talk about problems, bounce ideas off each other, get other perspectives, etc. — I don't understand why that would be any different when the adults in question happen to be a parent and child. DS has watched several friends and teammates really flounder because of being left to "figure things out for themselves," sometimes with pretty devastating consequences.

I also think there is an underlying level of sexism in this attitude that really bothers me. If a male student who was having problems with group members in an advanced CS class spoke to his father about it, and dad crowdsourced info from work colleagues and professors that he knew, most people would think it's awesome that father and son have such a close relationship and what a great dad he is that he's willing to advise and mentor his son. But when a female student discusses the same issue with her mother, and the mother crowdsources info from her colleagues and professors that she knows, it's framed as an immature child running to "her mommy." 

This seems to be a common trope — like it's ok to ask for help and advice from dad, because a man's advice will be objective, intelligent, and useful, but asking for help and advice from mom means the adult child is just immature, dependent, and in need of reassurance and emotional support. I've seen that first-hand in sports, too — when dad accompanies a teen or young adult to competitions, he's an awesome father to take such interest in his kid's activities and to coach and mentor him, but when DS was the only one at international competitions with a mom instead of a dad or male coach, he got ragged on for traveling with "his mommy." As if my only possible function at the competition would be providing hugs when he loses, I couldn't possibly be providing the same level of advice and logistical support that the dads did. It's obnoxious. 

[Harriet Vane]

7 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

You seem to be purposely framing this in a really loaded way. If a spouse, close friend, or valued co-worker came to me to discuss problems they were having at a work, I can't imagine brushing them off with "you're an adult, you should figure it out on your own" instead of helping them think of solutions. Adults want to talk about problems, bounce ideas off each other, get other perspectives, etc. — I don't understand why that would be any different when the adults in question happen to be a parent and child. DS has watched several friends and teammates really flounder because of being left to "figure things out for themselves," sometimes with pretty devastating consequences.

I also think there is an underlying level of sexism in this attitude that really bothers me. If a male student who was having problems with group members in an advanced CS class spoke to his father about it, and dad crowdsourced info from work colleagues and professors that he knew, most people would think it's awesome that father and son have such a close relationship and what a great dad he is that he's willing to advise and mentor his son. But when a female student discusses the same issue with her mother, and the mother crowdsources info from her colleagues and professors that she knows, it's framed as an immature child running to "her mommy." 

This seems to be a common trope — like it's ok to ask for help and advice from dad, because a man's advice will be objective, intelligent, and useful, but asking for help and advice from mom means the adult child is just immature, dependent, and in need of reassurance and emotional support. I've seen that first-hand in sports, too — when dad accompanies a teen or young adult to competitions, he's an awesome father to take such interest in his kid's activities and to coach and mentor him, but when DS was the only one at international competitions with a mom instead of a dad or male coach, he got ragged on for traveling with "his mommy." As if my only possible function at the competition would be providing hugs when he loses, I couldn't possibly be providing the same level of advice and logistical support that the dads did. It's obnoxious. 

Yes, this.

I don't see why Kassia is being taken to task for chattering on this forum like everyone does all the time. She clarified that she's just talking together with her dd, not attempting to directly run interference with the professor.

I've launched my two grown-up kids, and I've got a whole slew of launching young adults that I chat with all the time (nieces, nephews, foster care contacts). Kassia's question and concern and the discussion seems completely normal to me both for real life and for forum norms.

[teachermom2834]

You are doing just fine @Kassia. Nothing wrong with seeking input here on how to support your dd. 
 

I think whenever people ask questions here about things pertaining to their young adult (even sometimes teens) we should just say “hey my friend is having this problem” or “I am experiencing this issue” instead of outing ourselves as having the nerve to ask how to help our own kids. Because the same things we would be fine asking about anyone else we get taken to task for asking about helping our own children.

I asked here for some advice helping my 20 yo relocate several states away on short notice. Of course, amongst all the helpful advice were posts to the tune of “he is 20! Why are you helping him?!!” Um… because I’d help my 50 yo girlfriends with a big move if they asked and I had a way to source info. Why can’t I help my kid?

Off my rant now. Group projects are the worst! At my dd’s high school they usually give the option to opt out and do it all yourself so she takes that. Last time they were giving presentations one girl was struggling terribly and she finally said “I’m sorry. This is the first time I have had to actually do the project and didn’t just have a partner do it.” Yikes.

 

[Kassia]

8 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

 

I think whenever people ask questions here about things pertaining to their young adult (even sometimes teens) we should just say “hey my friend is having this problem” or “I am experiencing this issue” instead of outing ourselves as having the nerve to ask how to help our own kids. Because the same things we would be fine asking about anyone else we get taken to task for asking about helping our own children.

I asked here for some advice helping my 20 yo relocate several states away on short notice. Of course, amongst all the helpful advice were posts to the tune of “he is 20! Why are you helping him?!!” Um… because I’d help my 50 yo girlfriends with a big move if they asked and I had a way to source info. Why can’t I help my kid?

 

 

LOL, thanks for this - we are looking at a long distance move for dd (age 20) this summer and I was planning on coming here for advice/experience because it's all overwhelming for me and obviously new to her.  

I do appreciate everyone's perspective though.  Sometimes people come across as kind of harsh but I generally prefer that to a JAWM thread (for myself).  

I truly love this place and am so grateful for all the help and support I have received here for so many parts of my life.

[HomeAgain]

33 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

You seem to be purposely framing this in a really loaded way. If a spouse, close friend, or valued co-worker came to me to discuss problems they were having at a work, I can't imagine brushing them off with "you're an adult, you should figure it out on your own" instead of helping them think of solutions. Adults want to talk about problems, bounce ideas off each other, get other perspectives, etc. — I don't understand why that would be any different when the adults in question happen to be a parent and child. DS has watched several friends and teammates really flounder because of being left to "figure things out for themselves," sometimes with pretty devastating consequences.

I also think there is an underlying level of sexism in this attitude that really bothers me. If a male student who was having problems with group members in an advanced CS class spoke to his father about it, and dad crowdsourced info from work colleagues and professors that he knew, most people would think it's awesome that father and son have such a close relationship and what a great dad he is that he's willing to advise and mentor his son. But when a female student discusses the same issue with her mother, and the mother crowdsources info from her colleagues and professors that she knows, it's framed as an immature child running to "her mommy." 

This seems to be a common trope — like it's ok to ask for help and advice from dad, because a man's advice will be objective, intelligent, and useful, but asking for help and advice from mom means the adult child is just immature, dependent, and in need of reassurance and emotional support. I've seen that first-hand in sports, too — when dad accompanies a teen or young adult to competitions, he's an awesome father to take such interest in his kid's activities and to coach and mentor him, but when DS was the only one at international competitions with a mom instead of a dad or male coach, he got ragged on for traveling with "his mommy." As if my only possible function at the competition would be providing hugs when he loses, I couldn't possibly be providing the same level of advice and logistical support that the dads did. It's obnoxious. 

I think there is a desperation in your post to purposefully misunderstand the nuance between the two scenarios, and since it has been explained from my point of view, repeatedly, and you still insist on conflating them, there's nothing to discuss.

I absolutely would be just as weirded out by a young man going to his daddy and his daddy doing the adulting for him.  It's not sexist, it's a line between treating an adult like a child to solve something for them and enabling the child to do it themselves.  This is not the parent's problem and it's not appropriate to continue.  If you're going to throw around ideas like it's sexist because I think it's inappropriate for a parent to take on this burden FROM the child, then there is no reasoning with that. 

[MagistraKennedy]

4 hours ago, AmandaVT said:

I'm super petty, so if it were me, I'd be submitting my unanswered emails to my group along with my final project. I'd add a note to my final submission letting my professor know that I tried, on many occasions, to engage my group, but they refused to do their part.

I'm petty right there with you. I'd be attaching a giant PDF of all screen shots, conversations, etc. What a mess!

 

[Melissa Louise]

5 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I think many students run into this in a group project.  It can be intensified at a large school that has many unmotivated students who just want a diploma.  There are several suggestions I would have for my child.  First, she needs to be clear about the role of the TA in this course.  Does the TA provide a a grade?  Does the TA have an authority over struture of groups or assignments?  Or, it the TA simply implementing predesigned coursework and serving as a resource.  The term TA can cover a broad range of situations; the particular situation for this course will determine whether the TA has any options to deal with the situation.

Second, I would check the syllabus and course assignments and make sure I know the expectations and grading for the group work.  Is there a procedure set out for handling disagreements among group members?  I know some professors who rely heavily on group work have detailed guidelines regarding when and how they will get involved or mediate.  I know others who part of the assignment of the group work is for the group, in the beginning, to set up procedures that they will follow to mitigate these issues.  Some professors allow for a student to change groups; some professors allow for a student to break from a group and work on their own; some professors provide differentiated grades based upon the contribution of the different team members.  

Some would also depend upon whether this is one big semester-long project or a series of smaller projects.  As a professor, I recently had a student who came to me in a similar situation.  What I suggested was either (1) emailing the group regarding the upcoming project and stating specifically what part of the upcoming project he was volunteering to do as his part of the contribution and when he could have it completed (I suggested this be days before the project was due--stating that he had plans and would be unavailable over the following days to work on the project, hence he had to get ahead on his part) and perhpas specifically stating what the other parts of the project were that someone was going to have to volunteer for--thus changing the dynamics the group had fallen into expecting him to do all the work or (2) take a leadership role in the group and delineate the jobs, make suggestions of who could do what and by when, and a specific time and place for the group to meet to go over the project.  

 

My girls always did this from the get-go.

It improved the project a little - in that instead of doing 90% of the work, they ended up doing, say, 70% + the supervision of other students.

But the problem really was the amount of group work, imo.

 

 

[Melissa Louise]

It's really normal for a parent to hear from a student about a frustration, and to ask friends/others what's worked for them in similar situations, and then feed back options to their own student = what Kassia is doing.

It's not normal for the parent of a student to contact a TA or professor on behalf of their student who is having a problem with group projects = what Kassia is NOT doing.

I don't understand why this is a thing in this thread. Kassia is just doing what 99% of the rest of us do at times.

[kbutton]

 

 

5 hours ago, EKS said:

Just reading this thread is stressing me out.  When will professors get a clue that the only person who benefits from group projects is them?  As in, there are fewer things to grade.

...

They give lip service to the idea that this gives "real world" experience.  But I've worked in the real world, and it really isn't the same.

I had worthwhile group projects in college (not that many), but part of the grade included each group member reviewing the other group members in reasonably good detail (we had a standardized form to fill out). 

It is not quite the same as in the real world though--I didn't usually have to collaborate with someone doing the same job as me. I was usually on a cross-functional team where I had responsibilities for sharing information and getting feedback, but my deliverable was my own. 

4 hours ago, Kassia said:

There are still other group efforts such as the weekly progress report and things like that where she is the only one doing the work and can't even get the other members to give feedback or approval to submit but I'm glad that it seems she won't be responsible for the entire finished product.  

A weekly progress report is the PERFECT way to throw her non-working group members under the bus factually, obviously, and nicely. You set a deadline for their part of the status report, and when it's empty, you leave their section of the group report empty except for a copy of the message you sent asking for that information.

4 hours ago, Kassia said:

I think a big part of the problem is the motivation differences within the group - some members might be happy with a C- so they can just pass while others (like my dd) want to get the highest grade possible.  

Passing with a C should require some kind of showing up. This is beyond that even though I'm sure it's a factor.

4 hours ago, AmandaVT said:

I'm super petty, so if it were me, I'd be submitting my unanswered emails to my group along with my final project. I'd add a note to my final submission letting my professor know that I tried, on many occasions, to engage my group, but they refused to do their part.

Yep! If I'd had the presence of mind to do this in college, it would've been really helpful a time or two. I did learn to do things like this on the job.

I rarely had to deal with slacking on the job, but in my very last job, I did have to go over the head of my incompetent boss. It went well, lol! This is part of how it was done--documentation.

[TechWife]

9 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

You honestly shouldn't be shouldering the problem either.

This is a learning opportunity for a young adult who is a senior in college.  It is up to her to direct what kind of help she needs and what she is going to do about it.  The obvious options are out there, and she can choose to exercise them or not, but it's all her and none of it should be something that you are fretting about for her.

I think empathy is a great thing to have, especially for people we care about & love. I've been known to fret occasionally about my dh's job. After 30+ years on the job, there are still things he encounters that are new to him, or are simply new problems altogether that are created by legal, technological or organizational changes.

[SKL]

About "crowdsourcing" here ....

For me, it often looks like this.

• I learn that kid is in a situation.
• I talk to kid and attempt to guide her as appropriate.
• My ever-active brain reminds me that I've read about other people viewing / handling these things differently.
• I start to wonder what various views the Hive would have about this & go ask.
  • Especially if this would also serve as a vent / talk therapy for me.
• It may or may not ever come back around to me giving additional advice to my kid.

About group work ...

• I don't recall doing any for grade prior to grad school.  In grad school I usually got to choose my group size and members, which prevented a lot of problems.  One time we had to have a certain group size, I think 5 or 6 people, and yeah, that got awkward.  I can't remember how much of the class grade depended on that, but I'm pretty sure I got an A in the class regardless.
• My kids have had to do graded group work in middle and high school.  So far it hasn't been a big problem for them.  I don't think a big part of their grade depends on it, so if they get a lazy partner, it's not the end of the world.  (They're in 11th grade so maybe things will get worse before they graduate ....)
• My unsolicited opinions about group work in college (or before):
  • Sure, working in a group is part of life, particularly work life.
  • But usually you have someone with more experience and authority telling newbies what to do, unlike many college group projects.
    • And many truly democratic start-ups (for-profit and non-profit) don't succeed with the original group intact.  I wonder why?
  • I think the group project experience is valuable, but it shouldn't have a big impact on the course grade.
  • One possible way to enforce participation would be to require in-person meetings and take attendance.  I know someone's gonna say "these are adults," but so is the workplace, and people get fired for not showing up enough.