2.5 yo grandson has been sick for almost two weeks . . any ideas?

[Tenaj]

My dd just gave me permission to post this to see if any of you have any ideas what could be going on with her son.  He is 2.5 years, freshly potty-trained (like in the past two months) - that might be relevant.

About two weeks ago, the daycare called my dd on a Thursday afternoon about 3 telling her that dgs had not urinated all day.  She immediately went and picked him up and he went when they got home.  Then that night he refused to eat or drink and had a low grade fever.  That continued the next day with the addition of diarrhea that was very light colored (she called it white).  She called the doctor who wasn't concerned and said he must be constipated.  Told her to give him a probiotic and withhold dairy.  That's what she did through the weekend.  He had the fever off and on through Sunday morning. 

He still wasn't eating, but no more diarrhea and no problems urinating so she sent him to daycare on Monday morning.  They didn't tell her until pick up time that he hadn't been eating or drinking all day and that he had another fever.  Tuesday morning she took him to the dr. who ran an urinalysis and culture because they were assuming it was a uti.  She could see the lab results on Tuesday night and by internet research saw that his ketones and protein numbers were way off.  He continued to not eat or drink normally Tuesday and Wednesday and continued with the fever controlled by Tylenol.  Wednesday night he broke out with a rash on legs, stomach and back (poor baby), continued with fever so she called the dr. back on Thursday morning.  They said the culture didn't show anything so they were going to say he had roseola (because of the rash - but they had diagnosed him with roseola about a year ago). 

Fever disappeared when rash broke out but on Thursday night he developed a cough (I was supposed to watch him on Friday but she called it off because he had been up all night coughing).  Cough disappears by Saturday morning.  He gets up eats huge meals all day on Saturday and seems perfectly normal on Sunday.

Today, daycare calls to tell her that he's refusing to urinate for them.  Has been there since 8:30 a.m. and no peeing as of now which is 3:30.  This is a kid who was normally visiting the restroom every hour or so (part of that is probably newly potty-trained awareness).  She called the nurse again and nurse informs her that he is just dehydrated and to not expect a call back from a dr. because this is between her and the daycare.

She is at her wit's end.  She knows about this board (grew up hearing about all of you guys!) and asked if anyone has any ideas on what could be going on with her sweet little guy.  She's considering taking him to a clinic at the local children's hospital to get a different pair of eyes on him.

If it makes any difference, he was an easy kid to potty-train.  My dd had covid about six weeks ago and decided it would be a great time to try it since they were stuck at home for a week.  By the time he went back to daycare after that week, he was in regular underwear and has only had one accident at daycare which was on the first day he was back.

[prairiewindmomma]

Honestly, I’d be looking at what is different at school versus at home. What is he eating? How much access does he have to liquids? Is toileting at school a safe place (psychologically and physically)?

[Tenaj]

6 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Honestly, I’d be looking at what is different at school versus at home. What is he eating? How much access does he have to liquids? Is toileting at school a safe place (psychologically and physically)?

Yes, this is what my dd and I discussed today but absolutely nothing has changed at school.  He has been going to the same daycare for over a year.  Some teachers have changed but his core teachers are the same.  Sippy cup available all day with either milk (mealtimes) or water at all other times.  He had no trouble for a month or so at the daycare with the toilet - they use an insert in a regular toilet.  My dd is checking today about purchasing the same toddler toilet he uses at home to take into the daycare.  He doesn't complain about going to daycare at all . . in fact, dd said that on Saturday morning he asked about all his friends because he hadn't been there for a week and wanted to play with them.  I guess he listed them all out and then asked about seeing his teachers.

That's why she is concerned that it is something more medical/physical going on.

[Katy]

I’d take him for a different pair of eyes too, just in case it’s something post covid. I wouldn’t be concerned about protein & urine because those numbers are always off with prolonged fasting. 

I honestly think it’s more likely he hates the new teacher, but another medical opinion won’t hurt. 

[Kanin]

Is he peeing and eating normally at home?

[Tenaj]

7 minutes ago, Katy said:

I’d take him for a different pair of eyes too, just in case it’s something post covid. I wouldn’t be concerned about protein & urine because those numbers are always off with prolonged fasting. 

I honestly think it’s more likely he hates the new teacher, but another medical opinion won’t hurt. 

No new teacher, just a new "helper" in the afternoon but my dd was told that the same teacher who has always taken him to the bathroom is still doing that and it hasn't changed.

I wondered, too, about covid.  My dd had it.  He was sick with a minor cold at the same time but never tested positive and tested negative again last week at the first drs. appointment.

 

[Tenaj]

1 minute ago, Kanin said:

Is he peeing and eating normally at home?

Yes, at least he has been since Friday night.

[Tenaj]

I suggested loading him up with liquids tomorrow morning before he goes to daycare and then taking him to the daycare bathroom herself during drop-off just to see what happens.  She liked that idea and thought it was worth a try.

[Catwoman]

This may sound weird, but the white poop could suggest parasites. It might be worth having his poop tested to make sure there’s nothing abnormal. 

 

[Tenaj]

2 minutes ago, Tenaj said:

Yes, at least he has been since Friday night.

And he was at my house all day Sunday, and was perfectly normal.  He maybe even ate more than usual - we figured he was trying to make up all the lost calories of the previous week and a half.

[Kanin]

2 minutes ago, Tenaj said:

Yes, at least he has been since Friday night.

Hmm. Now that it's the school week, I wonder if that will continue - no peeing or eating at school, but doing both normally at home. I'm guessing he's not able to communicate about this at all? 

[Tenaj]

Just now, Catwoman said:

This may sound weird, but the white poop could suggest parasites. It might be worth having his poop tested to make sure there’s nothing abnormal. 

 

I was very concerned about the white poos but it seemed like the dr. just wrote it off.  I'll mention it to her.  I feel like the dr. and nurses are sometimes just writing off her concerns because she is a first time mom.  I hate that.  It makes me thankful for the patient pediatrician I had when my first was little.

 

[Tenaj]

1 minute ago, Kanin said:

Hmm. Now that it's the school week, I wonder if that will continue - no peeing or eating at school, but doing both normally at home. I'm guessing he's not able to communicate about this at all? 

He talks fairly well for his age but he's not even three so communication is kind of limited.  Up until Friday/Saturday he would say his belly hurt when offered food or drink.  I'm not sure what's going on today in that regard.

[Kanin]

1 minute ago, Tenaj said:

He talks fairly well for his age but he's not even three so communication is kind of limited.  Up until Friday/Saturday he would say his belly hurt when offered food or drink.  I'm not sure what's going on today in that regard.

Bummer. Poor little guy! I wish I had some useful suggestions. 

[KSera]

5 minutes ago, Tenaj said:

I was very concerned about the white poos but it seemed like the dr. just wrote it off.  I'll mention it to her.  I feel like the dr. and nurses are sometimes just writing off her concerns because she is a first time mom.  I hate that.  It makes me thankful for the patient pediatrician I had when my first was little.

 

Is he still having white poop? That’s it off big alarm bells for me and I’m very surprised they would wave that off. It can be a couple things, liver being a big one. How do the whites of his eyes look? Just seeing the white poop and the other things, I would be getting another opinion right away.

[Catwoman]

4 minutes ago, Tenaj said:

I was very concerned about the white poos but it seemed like the dr. just wrote it off.  I'll mention it to her.  I feel like the dr. and nurses are sometimes just writing off her concerns because she is a first time mom.  I hate that.  It makes me thankful for the patient pediatrician I had when my first was little.

 

It might be time to find a new doctor!

The white poo does not seem at all normal to me, and when two of my relatives had it, it ended up being parasites, so that’s why I mentioned it. It was years ago, so I can’t remember the details, but I do remember that they just got some kind of medication and then they were fine.

[Arcadia]

17 minutes ago, Tenaj said:

I was very concerned about the white poos but it seemed like the dr. just wrote it off.  I'll mention it to her.  I feel like the dr. and nurses are sometimes just writing off her concerns because she is a first time mom.  I hate that.  It makes me thankful for the patient pediatrician I had when my first was little.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

It might be time to find a new doctor!

The white poo does not seem at all normal to me, and when two of my relatives had it, it ended up being parasites, so that’s why I mentioned it. It was years ago, so I can’t remember the details, but I do remember that they just got some kind of medication and then they were fine.

Has pinworm been suggested? They do cause “white” poop and bellyache.

[Lady Florida.]

I'd be looking for a different doctor. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

pale poop can also be celiac disease.   ETA:  so can tummy aches.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Jean in Newcastle

[Katy]

Covid can trigger autoimmune so Celiac is possible. 

[Ausmumof3]

I would be looking for another doctor.

some of those symptoms overlap with MISC. I think it’s not over likely given the dramatic improvement on the weekend but just keep an eye on it. It seems more likely that it’s something environmental at daycare. 

“Symptoms

Signs and symptoms of multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C) include those below, though not all children have the same symptoms.

• Fever that lasts 24 hours or longer
• Vomiting
• Diarrhea
• Pain in the stomach
• Skin rash
• Feeling unusually tired
• Fast heartbeat
• Rapid breathing
• Red eyes
• Redness or swelling of the lips and tongue
• Redness or swelling of the hands or feet
• Headache, dizziness or lightheadedness
• Enlarged lymph nodes”

[lmrich]

Have her use her phone to  take pictures and record all the information. AND remind her to trust her gut - she has good mamma instincts. 

I like the idea of her hanging out at daycare a bit so he can use the bathroom with her present. 

My dd refused to the bathroom when we were camping because there was a spider in the  bathroom... she ended up with a kidney infection and was hospitalized. And/or she caught something from playing in the  lake... I  am adding this to say, it might not be something awful but just a kid being completely age appopriate and having  fears.

[KSera]

5 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I would be looking for another doctor.

some of those symptoms overlap with MISC. I think it’s not over likely given the dramatic improvement on the weekend but just keep an eye on it. It seems more likely that it’s something environmental at daycare. 

“Symptoms

Signs and symptoms of multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C) include those below, though not all children have the same symptoms.

• Fever that lasts 24 hours or longer
• Vomiting
• Diarrhea
• Pain in the stomach
• Skin rash
• Feeling unusually tired
• Fast heartbeat
• Rapid breathing
• Red eyes
• Redness or swelling of the lips and tongue
• Redness or swelling of the hands or feet
• Headache, dizziness or lightheadedness
• Enlarged lymph nodes”

That's what I was thinking, but not saying because I didn't want to be alarmist. They also overlap with the acute hepatitis being seen in kids. I'm very surprised the ped isn't looking more carefully and would be getting someone new as well.

eta:

These are the signs of hepatitis in kids to be aware of (not all need to be present). I would definitely check the color of the whites of his eyes and would consider it an emergency at this point if they were yellow:

Watch for symptoms of liver inflammation:

• jaundice (yellowing of the skin)
• fever
• fatigue
• loss of appetite
• nausea
• vomiting
• abdominal pain
• dark urine
• light-colored stools (poop)
• joint pain

Edited July 19, 2022 by KSera

[Tenaj]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

Is he still having white poop? That’s it off big alarm bells for me and I’m very surprised they would wave that off. It can be a couple things, liver being a big one. How do the whites of his eyes look? Just seeing the white poop and the other things, I would be getting another opinion right away.

The white poo was only one or two times andy DD has been watching for yellowish eyes but he seems normal in that regard

[Tenaj]

5 minutes ago, KSera said:

That's what I was thinking, but not saying because I didn't want to be alarmist. They also overlap with the acute hepatitis being seen in kids. I'm very surprised the ped isn't looking more carefully and would be getting someone new as well.

When I first googled his symptoms last week the acute hepatitis was the first thing that came up.  My dd saw that, too but Dr. didn't seem alarmed

[Tenaj]

I'm going to pass this on to her.  Thank you souch for all the responses so far.

[KSera]

38 minutes ago, Tenaj said:

I'm going to pass this on to her.  Thank you souch for all the responses so far.

Keep us updated. I'm going to be worried about the little guy now!

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, KSera said:

Keep us updated. I'm going to be worried about the little guy now!

Me, too!!!

I really think the little guy needs to see a different doctor -- the current one "doesn't seem concerned" about a group of symptoms that don't sound common among little kids. I would definitely want a second opinion. (I hope the current doctor is right, and it's nothing to worry about, but I wouldn't want to wait around in case he's wrong.)

[ScoutTN]

I would have him to a different doc. 

[Tenaj]

She is going to check for pinworms tonight because he has been really restless at night and itching his bum.  

His dad picked him up early from daycare and he urinated as soon as they got home but then he laid down on the couch for several hours.  I think she's going to take him to a clinic attached to their children's hospital tomorrow.  I'll update as soon as I know anything.

[Catwoman]

I think she’s doing the right thing, Janet!

[Elizabeth86]

1 hour ago, Tenaj said:

She is going to check for pinworms tonight because he has been really restless at night and itching his bum.  

His dad picked him up early from daycare and he urinated as soon as they got home but then he laid down on the couch for several hours.  I think she's going to take him to a clinic attached to their children's hospital tomorrow.  I'll update as soon as I know anything.

Oh yikes, yes I bet he has worms. Poor guy and poor mama. ❤️

[Lawyer&Mom]

Light stools can also be lack of bile.  I had it after covid, and it took a long time for my digestion to stabilize.  Hopefully it is parasites, because that’s easier to treat!

[Longtime Lurker]

8 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I would be looking for another doctor.

some of those symptoms overlap with MISC. I think it’s not over likely given the dramatic improvement on the weekend but just keep an eye on it. It seems more likely that it’s something environmental at daycare. 

“Symptoms

Signs and symptoms of multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C) include those below, though not all children have the same symptoms.

• Fever that lasts 24 hours or longer
• Vomiting
• Diarrhea
• Pain in the stomach
• Skin rash
• Feeling unusually tired
• Fast heartbeat
• Rapid breathing
• Red eyes
• Redness or swelling of the lips and tongue
• Redness or swelling of the hands or feet
• Headache, dizziness or lightheadedness
• Enlarged lymph nodes”

I would want to rule out MISC given the GI symptoms and rash and recent covid in the family. It sounds a lot like when my nephew had MISC (only this seems much milder, nephew ended up in ICU).

[popmom]

Just something to keep on the radar… symptoms similar to what you are describing. This was linked on the Omicron thread earlier. Rash is common along with not eating or drinking, GI upset, fever. AAP is recommending pediatricians start testing for it—particularly in babies.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna38417

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/07/19/parechovirus-rash-symptoms-baby/10090057002/

Edited July 20, 2022 by popmom

[Tenaj]

Wednesday morning update:  My dd loaded him up on fluids as much as she could before taking him to daycare this morning and took him in to use his normal bathroom.  Despite being told repeatedly by the teacher that they used a toddler insert in the adult sized toilet, there was none to be found.  So, they have him on an adult seat with no insert and just tell him to hang on.  He is not a big 2.5 year old (he was a premie and weight has always been a concern) and is used to using a toddler potty at home.  We may have just found the problem.  My dd asked about it and got a vague answer that there used to be one but it had disappeared and they had just ordered a new one yesterday.  So we think that they had one when he first trained six weeks ago, it disappeared and probably around the time he got sick they were forcing him to use the larger toilet which stressed him out, on top of whatever virus he had!  I would not want to be the teacher or administrator at the daycare today - my younger kids were cringing at the thought of their sister's anger over this whole thing!

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Tenaj
grammar

[KSera]

13 minutes ago, Tenaj said:

Wednesday morning update:  My dd loaded him up on fluids as much as she could before taking him to daycare this morning and took him in to use his normal bathroom.  Despite being told repeatedly by the teacher that they used a toddler insert in the adult sized toilet, there was none to be found.  So, they have him on an adult seat with no insert and just tell him to hang on.  He is not a big 2.5 year old (he was a premie and weight has always been a concern) and is used to using a toddler potty at home.  We may have just found the problem.  My dd asked about it and got a vague answer that there used to be one but it had disappeared and they had just ordered a new one yesterday.  So we think that they had one when he first trained six weeks ago, it disappeared and probably around the time he got sick they were forcing him to use the larger toilet which stressed him out, on top of whatever virus he had!  I would not want to be the teacher or administrator at the daycare today - my younger kids were cringing at the thought of their sister's anger over this whole thing!

 

Poor kiddo! That’s completely ridiculous for them to have let that be an issue when it’s such an easy problem to fix. I’m sure your dd would have just brought one if they had said up front that they no longer had one. How frustrating. I hope that resolves the issue and he doesn’t have any ongoing illness symptoms. I can’t tell if there were still any of those, or if it was just the not urinating at this point. 

[*****]

After this incident, I would have real concerns about this daycare. How do you lose a toilet insert and not even think about how important it is to your little clients?! How do you not even know where it has gone to? (Is the place that large? Maybe, but in my mind, I picture a smaller place.)

As we know, potty training is a huge deal. Being told to 'hang on' demonstrates very little knowledge of child thinking and child psychiatry at this age. I would be livid, especially since this has been an ongoing issue, doctor visits and there has been multiple communication between parent and staff.  There seems to be a lack of true caring to the importance of the child's health. Not sure if I could trust their judgment after this and would consider finding another daycare. 

[Tenaj]

17 minutes ago, ***** said:

After this incident, I would have real concerns about this daycare. How do you lose a toilet insert and not even think about how important it is to your little clients?! How do you not even know where it has gone to? (Is the place that large? Maybe, but in my mind, I picture a smaller place.)

As we know, potty training is a huge deal. Being told to 'hang on' demonstrates very little knowledge of child thinking and child psychiatry at this age. I would be livid, especially since this has been an ongoing issue, doctor visits and there has been multiple communication between parent and staff.  There seems to be a lack of true caring to the importance of the child's health. Not sure if I could trust their judgment after this and would consider finding another daycare. 

I agree and I hope my dd pursues the whole story.  I'm not sure how many kids the facility has but I do know they have multiple rooms for different ages so maybe the insert disappeared into another room and no one thought how important it was to him?  This place really has been an excellent fit to the point that my dd has turned down jobs that would take her too far away from this daycare.  I'm sure she'll be pursuing the issue today and I'm praying that it gets  resolved.  To me it seems so obvious, but maybe with his sickness in the middle (whatever that was) it obscured and interrupted his daycare time enough that they didn't realize what was going on.

[Elizabeth86]

2 hours ago, Tenaj said:

Wednesday morning update:  My dd loaded him up on fluids as much as she could before taking him to daycare this morning and took him in to use his normal bathroom.  Despite being told repeatedly by the teacher that they used a toddler insert in the adult sized toilet, there was none to be found.  So, they have him on an adult seat with no insert and just tell him to hang on.  He is not a big 2.5 year old (he was a premie and weight has always been a concern) and is used to using a toddler potty at home.  We may have just found the problem.  My dd asked about it and got a vague answer that there used to be one but it had disappeared and they had just ordered a new one yesterday.  So we think that they had one when he first trained six weeks ago, it disappeared and probably around the time he got sick they were forcing him to use the larger toilet which stressed him out, on top of whatever virus he had!  I would not want to be the teacher or administrator at the daycare today - my younger kids were cringing at the thought of their sister's anger over this whole thing!

 

Oh poor baby.  My youngest is 4 1/2 and still has anxiety about going on a big potty.  Bless his heart.  

[Lawyer&Mom]

This is a dedicated daycare facility and they have grownup sized toilets?  That seems odd to me.  Didn’t realize how spoiled we were with the tiny kid toilets. (Regular fully plumbed toilets, just smaller and lower to the ground.)

[kbutton]

I think I would still be somewhat concerned about the light colored poo. When you google, it says it's problematic. I would not want to be blown off about that.

Regarding the toilets, if he is at a stage where he would be willing to try various seating positions without losing ground, there are a couple of things my kids did (especially my oldest) that helped them feel comfortable on bigger potties...straddling the toilet and facing the back of the toilet was helpful. This quickly turned into kneeling on the front, putting hands on the tank, and then being in a great position to pee as if they are standing. It was also really stable. Some of their childcare workers at church, etc., found it a big surprising but then realized it worked really well. If it's a tankless toilet, that might not help though.

My older kiddo was really rigid, and he would not use artificial devices to toilet. It offended him, lol! If he didn't see an adult use a stool, he didn't want one. If he didn't see an adult use a seat that sits inside, he didn't want one. 

[popmom]

2 hours ago, kbutton said:

I think I would still be somewhat concerned about the light colored poo. When you google, it says it's problematic. I would not want to be blown off about that.

Regarding the toilets, if he is at a stage where he would be willing to try various seating positions without losing ground, there are a couple of things my kids did (especially my oldest) that helped them feel comfortable on bigger potties...straddling the toilet and facing the back of the toilet was helpful. This quickly turned into kneeling on the front, putting hands on the tank, and then being in a great position to pee as if they are standing. It was also really stable. Some of their childcare workers at church, etc., found it a big surprising but then realized it worked really well. If it's a tankless toilet, that might not help though.

My older kiddo was really rigid, and he would not use artificial devices to toilet. It offended him, lol! If he didn't see an adult use a stool, he didn't want one. If he didn't see an adult use a seat that sits inside, he didn't want one. 

Fwiw, all of my kids have experienced a bout of pale or “clay” colored stool as a toddler. Usually after a stomach bug. 

[Tenaj]

He had two accidents during the morning and then the daycare received the toilet insert (or went and got one?  That part wasn't clear) and he was completely normal the rest of the day.  Hopefully the problem is solved.

[Ausmumof3]

8 hours ago, Tenaj said:

He had two accidents during the morning and then the daycare received the toilet insert (or went and got one?  That part wasn't clear) and he was completely normal the rest of the day.  Hopefully the problem is solved.

That’s awesome! So disappointing that they didn’t work it out earlier though.