S/O fashion—am I wrong to be offended by this?

[Frances]

29 minutes ago, popmom said:

I try to buy secondhand, too. Maybe we need a thread to share our favorite online sources. I just recently discovered ThredUp because they have a store on eBay.

I usually cannot do secondhand shoes though because I have very hard to fit feet. I AM stalking some running shoes for cheap on eBay. I have a few options of interest for over-pronation, and I'm hoping to luck out and find a gently used pair or NWOT.  I'm not a runner though--I walk. 🙂

Here the Goodwills are amazing. All clothing is sorted by type, material, color, and size. It makes it very easy to find exactly what you want very quickly with tons of different brands. The only downside is not usually being able to buy multiples of the same thing. I guess I’ve never considered buying used clothing online. Can you return it if it doesn’t fit?

As for shoes, personally I would only buy used if I was barely going to wear them, such as for a special event. Our feet are important for overall health, so it’s wise to get a proper fit. I have no problem paying more for a quality pair of shoes that was produced by people earning a fair living. I just own very few pairs of shoes, rather than lots of cheap pairs.

[Frances]

43 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Same here. And we make our clothes last. I have many items that are 20 years old, from my hiking fleece to dresses. 

Me too. And the best fleeces I have were all bought used. Unfortunately, my husband is incredibly hard on clothing. I’ve honestly never ever seen anything comparable. It’s like some sort of superpower he has. So maybe we balance out because he goes through things relatively quickly while mine last forever.

[Elizabeth86]

5 hours ago, Ellie said:

Well, no, holes in jeans haven't always been a thing. I promise that none of my friends would have allowed their children to leave the house with holes in their jeans, and that was only in the 70s. Which might seem like a long time to y'all whippersnappers, but nevertheless, that makes it not always a thing. 🙂

And those sweaters are abominable.

I am a young whippernapper, but I have never had holes in my jeans! 🤣

[Elizabeth86]

4 hours ago, MissLemon said:

This is why I buy second hand as much as possible.

Me too. My little 6 year old says the Goodwill is her favorite store. 🤣

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

It's pretty gross. 

It brings to mind the classism and racism double standard. Rich and white? Show your status with $2k holey sweaters. Poor or Black, we'll judge you for your $5 sweater from the thrift store because it's got a hole. 

 

I share this view. 

[Pawz4me]

5 hours ago, SKL said:

I only buy clothes when my existing ones fall apart and can't be worn any more.  But I am wired frumpy.

 

Same. 

I don't find those shoes or jeans offensive, but when I looked at them I was reminded of the saying "there's a sucker born every minute." But I feel that way about a lot of supposedly fashionable clothing.

[Sneezyone]

8 hours ago, popmom said:

I understand it’s a status symbol. Clearly.  It feels like a very inappropriate appropriation of poverty. I don’t understand why this is encouraged or accepted. Maybe I’m wrong to assume this, but I’m imagining that someone who buys this can afford to tout luxury beliefs and claim outrage about other types of cultural appropriation.

It’s right up there with Niemann Marcus’ luxury, frozen collard greens. Gross. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/02/500374724/neiman-marcus-is-selling-frozen-collard-greens-for-66-plus-shipping

[HomeAgain]

Those trends make me feel old. 😄 I'm at the point in my life where I shop based on how well it will last and how opaque it is. I'm past the point of wanting to layer 3-4 things that have no coverage on their own or are super trendy today and garbage tomorrow. (Or in this case, hitting both at the same time)

I'm just going to sit over here in my Eddie Bauer plain tee, L.L. Bean cotton cardigan, and non-holey jeans and pretend my style is still relevant. 😄

[Teaching3bears]

Someone got attacked by a wild beast!

If I took a few of my old sweaters and rip them up like that and rent a booth at the craft fair, will I be able to sell them for $100 each?  I will bring my dirty old sneakers too.  

[Katy]

It’s ironic. There’s a move back towards old money/prep style which tends to dress trendless/timeless/shabby. I much prefer it to Kardashian sort of flash, but if you’re a Kardashian type buying this destroyed stuff is funny. If you’re a fashion designer you don’t cater to the old money set anyway, you cater to new money flash.

There’s a video of the first President Bush wearing duct tape on his cordovan shell loafers while campaigning for president. Cordovan is the most expensive and longest lasting leather, there’s no way he was going to pop into the nearest department store and grab new shoes. Better to duct tape the old ones and take them to the cobbler for resoling a dozen times when it’s convenient. And that “buy it for life” philosophy is how custom cordovan shell loafers can actually be quite cheap when calculated on a cost per wear basis. 

[historically accurate]

I'm pretty frumpy. I just think if I had thousands to spend on one sweater, it'd be perfect, not look like I drug it out of the cat's mouth (my cat eats things like a dog).

I don't know, it's stupid, but so is a lot of fashion.

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by historically accurate

[footballmom]

I think this thread has some really good points in it, but is also a slippery slope.  

Full disclosure - I have a pair of the sneakers.  I love them and it makes me happy to wear them every day.  I got them 30% off and it was a huge treat to myself after a really really super crappy year filled with lots of life.  It makes me sad to think how harshly people are willing to judge me and the narrative about me if they see them on my feet.  Ouch.

I don’t need the shoes to feel better about myself having a “status symbol”.  I’m not directing this at anyone but I think not shopping trends or choosing to (fill in the blank - live simply, not buy, support local, upcycle, recycle, deny yourself, thrift shop) - is a badge of honor that can then be used to criticize / critique other people’s choices.  I wouldn’t choose to spend $1200 on a sweater but I would hope someone who has the means to is also generous with their resources to others that are in need.  Not my role to judge.

[Indigo Blue]

Oh, dear. I kind of like the shoes. *ducking*

I wouldn’t buy them, though, for that price. I can’t wear them because they don’t look supportive, and I have bad feet. 
 

I googled and some of them just look cute.  Really cute with skinny jeans. For young girls. I’m too old for those. 
 

The sweater is a bit much. I do agree that clothing gets ridiculous, overpriced…lots of waste. I just can’t help it that I think the shoes look cute, worn, and comfy, and stylish in an abstract way. 
 

editing: What I’m more mindful of lately is the amount of leather used to make clothing. We see the negative of overpriced clothing and too much value placed on style, etc. But not so much the downside to leather. Okay, not trying to start a debate…..I agree with the points made in the thread. It’s just that I think the shoes are cute. I had never heard of these before. They do have vegan ones, but I can’t wear them and I would never pay $500 for them.
 

Ok. Throw tomatoes. 😛

Edited March 2, 2022 by Indigo Blue

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

It’s right up there with Niemann Marcus’ luxury, frozen collard greens. Gross. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/02/500374724/neiman-marcus-is-selling-frozen-collard-greens-for-66-plus-shipping

My WM has Pictsweet frozen collard greens for $1.97 a bag. You do have to season them yourself, though.

[skimomma]

I just had a conversation with a few friends about the environmental and human rights impacts of the fashion industry.  We speculated that we are moving into a time when we have to think of clothing like cast iron.  As in owning a smaller collection of well-made, versatile clothing that you take care of and keep forever.  I have found myself moving in that direction anyway.  I prefer simple, versatile, timeless, flattering clothing, usually natural fibers and not made in sweatshops.  I have items in my rotation that are 20+ years old.  If you look through our photo albums, I am wearing the same clothes at the same occasions over and over.  The only clue that time has passed is the amount of grey in my hair and wrinkles on my face!  I am not guilt-free in that I have purchased items that I find I never wear for whatever reason or picked up a cheap swimsuit when I forgot mine on vacation.  And I cannot find a good solution to the pair of running shoes I have to buy annually as I wear out at least one pair a year.  But in general, I try to be cognitive when buying items that they will get enough use to be worth the resources and labor involved.

That sweater is stupid but I am not offended any more than I am offended by the cheap character plastic clothing offered up at Walmart.  In fact, it is more likely that the laborers involved were treated better.  However, neither category is likely to be worn many times either because the trend ends (sweater) or the item falls apart (Walmart clothing).  I can't take the mental leap to appropriation outrage.  I am far more offended that we treat clothing as "disposable," which applies to most fashion, be it discount or luxury.  I have no doubt that the people who buy that sweater keep it forever but probably will only wear it once, so it might as well be in the landfill.   

Also for those that say they do not donate ripped or stained clothing, do check with your local donation centers to see if they want these after all.  Ours does want them as they sell them as bulk rag-stock that is used in all sorts of recycled ways.  That is far better than putting them in a landfill.

 

[Hannah]

My first reaction was "Why are they mocking poverty?".  I do find it troubling.  If I saw a person wearing this I'd think that they had absolutely no empathy for people who live in poverty. 

The ludicrous prices make it even more so.  The price of the destroyed sweater is more than the old age grant a person in my country gets to live off in a year.  And the golden shoes is more than a child grant for a year.  

Edited March 3, 2022 by Hannah
golden shoes, not sweater

[VickiMNE]

9 hours ago, regentrude said:

Same here. And we make our clothes last. I have many items that are 20 years old, from my hiking fleece to dresses. 

Me, too!  I was honestly shocked a number of years ago when I read about some famous woman making a plea that people wear their clothes more than one time and to work towards a goal to wear a piece at least 30 times.  I had no idea people didn't wear things til they wore out (special event clothes excluded).

Edited March 2, 2022 by VickiMNE
typo

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, skimomma said:

I just had a conversation with a few friends about the environmental and human rights impacts of the fashion industry.  We speculated that we are moving into a time when we have to think of clothing like cast iron.  As in owning a smaller collection of well-made, versatile clothing that you take care of and keep forever.  I have found myself moving in that direction anyway.  I prefer simple, versatile, timeless, flattering clothing, usually natural fibers and not made in sweatshops.  I have items in my rotation that are 20+ years old.  If you look through our photo albums, I am wearing the same clothes at the same occasions over and over.  The only clue that time has passed is the amount of grey in my hair and wrinkles on my face!  I am not guilt-free in that I have purchased items that I find I never wear for whatever reason or picked up a cheap swimsuit when I forgot mine on vacation.  And I cannot find a good solution to the pair of running shoes I have to buy annually as I wear out at least one pair a year.  But in general, I try to be cognitive when buying items that they will get enough use to be worth the resources and labor involved.

ITA with the first part. When we lived in Bahrain, I was able to have a custom wardrobe made by local tradespeople, largely in linen, that I adore. Sadly...I've outgrown ALL of it. Thank you COVID. Now I'm forced to add in cheap stuff made who knows where until I can shed this extra weight. It's my fault, of course, but it sucks. I don't think it's so much 'offensive' as just a really tacky/gross use of wealth. Wealthy people do a lot of very stupid things with money.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Indigo Blue]

Generally, I just wear what I like. I tend to buy ONE more costly shirt, say, a Coolibar spf shirt, or some other quality thing from a store like REI.  The quality of clothing has gone downhill like everything else, so I don’t buy five shirts that won’t last one season. Sporting good stores and outdoor type stores still have quality, but it costs more. I might buy one or two quality things per season, and keep one or two quality leggings  for bottoms. I have a closet full of things that I’ve worn for years. 
 

I don’t put so much thought into it all except whether I like it and that it’s comfortable. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I had to open the shoes link twice to figure out what was so bad about them. The shoes don’t really bother me and I don’t know if I would even notice them on anyone’s feet. (Maybe that defeats part of their purpose as “fashion “?)

The sweater is just dumb at any price. (Obviously my opinion). I have clothing that is quite worn. It really doesn’t take that much time, money or effort to do “a stitch in time saves nine” type of repair”.  

[Arcadia]

56 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I had to open the shoes link twice to figure out what was so bad about them. The shoes don’t really bother me and I don’t know if I would even notice them on anyone’s feet. (Maybe that defeats part of their purpose as “fashion “?) 

The shoes link is part of the dirty sneakers trend in fashion. I don’t see it as poverty appropriation though as our sneakers look similar after walking through a dusty/muddy path. 

https://www.vogue.com/article/dirty-shoe-trend-gucci-vetements-balenciaga/amp (May 2017)

“Wellesley College assistant professor of psychology Angela Bahns—one of the authors of the paper “Shoes as a Source of First Impressions”—notes that a less-than-spotless look doesn’t imply mere slovenliness. “Our research found that having neat and tidy shoes tends to correlate with the person being anxious, conscientious, or politically conservative,” she writes in an email. “So the choice to use dirty shoes on the runway might be an effort to portray an image of being calm, not uptight, or politically liberal.””

[JustEm]

does this mean I can wear my destroyed favorite sweater in public now?  It is an Old Navy sweater from before their clothing turned to complete trash so it has survived many years of lots of wear.  But now it is basically falling apart.  But it is still super warm and comfy so I wear it at home

[Indigo Blue]

9 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

does this mean I can wear my destroyed favorite sweater in public now?  It is an Old Navy sweater from before their clothing turned to complete trash so it has survived many years of lots of wear.  But now it is basically falling apart.  But it is still super warm and comfy so I wear it at home

I remember the days when Old Navy had really good stuff. 

[mom2scouts]

13 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

It's pretty gross. 

It brings to mind the classism and racism double standard. Rich and white? Show your status with $2k holey sweaters. Poor or Black, we'll judge you for your $5 sweater from the thrift store because it's got a hole. 

 

Yep! I still remember feeling this way when the rich, suburban girls I know started wearing the jeans with holes and thinking they were so trendy. They were the same girls that I'd heard making fun of poorer girls for their clothing. Apparently, worn looking clothing is only OK if you spend a lot of money for it.

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, hjffkj said:

It is an Old Navy sweater from before their clothing turned to complete trash so it has survived many years of lots of wear.  But now it is basically falling apart. 

I love Old Navy and haven't had this experience (yet) but I haven't bought anything new in a while - maybe a year or more.

[JustEm]

10 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I love Old Navy and haven't had this experience (yet) but I haven't bought anything new in a while - maybe a year or more.

Oh it has been years since their quality was good imho. I do like their jeans still. 

[Ting Tang]

Now that I am 41, I have such a hard time finding nice yet affordable clothing. When I was 20, I didn't mind spending my little paycheck on a pair of jeans.  I recently went to Buckle, purchased 2 pairs of jeans, and it was over $140.  Then I went to Maurices, and I spent over $100 on two layering tanks and 2 not-so-fabulous ordinary sweaters that require tanks underneath.  These are not designer label clothes (I used to wear Guess, Calvin Klein, etc).  I still feel bad, but I live in a rural area.  Our stores are Target, Walmart, and Kohls.  I do shop at those places, but they have no selection right now.  It is really hard to find my size in stores.  So yeah, the prices on the sweater and worn looking shoes, blah.  

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Ting Tang

[Jean in Newcastle]

One comment about the sweater.  I wonder if there are any stats (I googled but couldn't find any) about how many people actually buy this sweater?  My suspicion is that it isn't many, though at that price I guess all they have to do is to sell one and they've made a handsome profit. 

[Arcadia]

46 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

One comment about the sweater.  I wonder if there are any stats (I googled but couldn't find any) about how many people actually buy this sweater?  My suspicion is that it isn't many, though at that price I guess all they have to do is to sell one and they've made a handsome profit. 

These kind of items are usually limited in quantity. They are intended for shock value. Balenciaga prices tend to be marked up, though still cheaper than other fashion houses. The banter between Ikea and Balenciaga for the $2,145 bag that looks like Ikea’s 99 cents bag was funny.

[Jean in Newcastle]

22 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

These kind of items are usually limited in quantity. They are intended for shock value. Balenciaga prices tend to be marked up, though still cheaper than other fashion houses. The banter between Ikea and Balenciaga for the $2,145 bag that looks like Ikea’s 99 cents bag was funny.

Responding to ridiculous things that were intended for shock value with outrage and shock just gives them what they want. That’s part of the reason I internally roll my eyes and don’t get worked up about it. 

[Shoeless]

3 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

I remember the days when Old Navy had really good stuff. 

Me too. Now it's all junk. I haven't bought anything from there in years. Such a shame, because the stuff was pretty nice when they first opened.