How would you interpret this comment?

[Faith-manor]

5 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

They are never alone for the whole time, they play in the driveway in sight of the house, and people are in and out etc  . . . but there have definitely been periods of time when no one is by the kitchen window or in the yard or whatever.   In normal situation, I don’t think a group of 11-14 year old cousins playing basketball in the backyard needs continual supervision. But I think we are no longer in that situation.  

It is so sad, and I am sad for you. Your sil is not a good person at all. I am so sorry this leaves you in that position. Other people suck sometimes!!!

[Faith-manor]

16 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

I think the plan to have all kids supervised all the time is a good one. IT will be hard over the long run--people will say things like, "I think enough time has passed..."

But as another poster said, once a comment like this is made, there's no walking back from it. This is a danger--a big one--for your son.

One further comment--a couple people have suggested not telling your son what was said. I say exactly the opposite. Tell him exactly what was said. It does not have to be an angry or malicious conversation. Just be honest about the world we live in and about what was said and why. No crap about "respecting elders" on something like this, because it's just too risky for your teen. He cannot think of this woman as safe or appropriate or trustworthy, because she is not.

Do not teach your children to love a dragon--they will only get burned.

Agreed. 14 is old enough to begin embracing the awful truth about our society, how many people view teenage boys. He needs to know she is not a good person for him to think of as safe, and protect himself. It is never, ever fun when we finally have to let our kids see the ugly that our relatives can be. However, it is for the best since we cannot control the other person.

We did not like having to say, "Your aunt is a bad person because x.y.z. You cannot trust her, and while you are minors, we will keep her from you. It is your choice what to do as adults, but we urge you to at least keep your distance. For what our advice is worth to you in your adulthood, we do not recommend having a relationship with her, your uncle, or your two female cousins." All three boys took that to heart, and as adults, are entirely estranged from that family. However, DD the softy, threw her aunt and uncle a bone about three years ago, and was instantly slammed with nastiness that my brother thought she should put up with so he could have a relationship with his niece. Nope. She shut that down with prejudice. It was startling just how vicious my sil was after ten years of no contact. I swear narcissists just live for the day when they can get another opportunity to be wicked to someone they have decided is their prey. There is no "time heals all wounds" kind of thing there. That is a personality that just can't be given an inch.

[Spryte]

23 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

 

Do not teach your children to love a dragon--they will only get burned.

I agreed with this whole post, but this last sentence is gold. It should be tattooed on some of us, so we never forget! (Well, me, anyway!)

I wish someone had told me this earlier, my kids did get burned before I learned. 

[Lady Florida.]

In this case I think you're making the right decision because this particular spiteful SIL can cause problems for your son. That's sad that the relationship between him and his (favorite?) cousin will have to change.

In general, no I don't think there's anything creepy about it. When I was growing up there were groups of same age cousins and we rarely mixed. The older cousins hung out together and our group of young ones played together. However, in the next generation that dynamic is different. My niece - my only sibling's only child - is 9 years older than ds. She and I are close and she was thrilled to have a baby cousin when ds was born. He idolized her. She spent a lot of time at our house and as ds got older they formed a close relationship. Today at 24 and 33 they're still close. Her fraternal boy and girl twins are 10 years younger than ds and the same type of relationship formed with him and both her son and daughter. They idolized him. They're 13 now (yes, she had them young) and enjoy hanging out with him when they come over. Ds will also happily play with his 9 and 7 yo nephews and 3yo niece. Family kids can have good relationships even if there's a big age difference.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Lady Florida.

[Drama Llama]

So, I have a new worry.  

I worry that if we set limits that she doesn’t like (and I guarantee she won’t like them) we are going to both let her know that this idea has power, and make her mad.  

It would be really easy for this to get spun into “I had a bad feeling and said something and obviously everyone agrees because now they watch him like a hawk.”

 She doesn’t have to believe that, but just saying it in a setting outside the family would have power to do a lot of damage.  

Thoughts?

[Catwoman]

24 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

In this case I think you're making the right decision because this particular spiteful SIL can cause problems for your son. That's sad that the relationship between him and his (favorite?) cousin will have to change.

In general, no I don't think there's anything creepy about it. When I was growing up there were groups of same age cousins and we rarely mixed. The older cousins hung out together and our group of young ones played together. However, in the next generation that dynamic is different. My niece - my only sibling's only child - is 9 years older than ds. She and I are close and she was thrilled to have a baby cousin when ds was born. He idolized her. She spent a lot of time at our house and as ds got older they formed a close relationship. Today at 24 and 33 they're still close. Her fraternal boy and girl twins are 10 years younger than ds and the same type of relationship formed with him and both her son and daughter. They idolized him. They're 13 now (yes, she had them young) and enjoy hanging out with him when they come over. Ds will also happily play with his 9 and 7 yo nephews and 3yo niece. Family kids can have good relationships even if there's a big age difference.

I agree with all of this, plus I also wanted to add that I’m wondering if there is a possibility that Baseballandhockey is reading too much into her sister-in-law‘s comment because of the history between them.

I can easily imagine someone making an offhand comment like that and not really meaning anything by it. Maybe SIL didn’t grow up in a family where older cousins played with younger ones, or maybe she is thinking that when she was 14, she wanted to hang out with older kids herself, so she was surprised that Baseballandhockey’s ds wants to hang out with her dd. For all we know, SIL might have been talking about her own child and kind of wondering why her 7yo would want to hang out with a 14yo boy. It sounds like this was one comment and that she didn’t elaborate on it or try to turn it into an issue. 

Some people seem to be taking some pretty big leaps here and making a lot of very unpleasant assumptions about the SIL‘s intentions. Sure, she has been a jerk in the past, but I can still easily see how this may have been nothing more than a simple, innocent, offhand comment, and I see no reason to leap to the conclusion that she may be getting ready to accuse Baseballandhockey‘s son of sexual abuse — or that the thought of sexual abuse ever even entered her mind. She may not have even intended it as an insult to Baseballandhockey’s ds; it could’ve just been nothing more than a quick (and instantly forgotten) observation.

I know the SIL has issues, but sometimes people just say things without thinking, and unless that type of comment becomes a pattern, I would just ignore it.

 

[lauraw4321]

2 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

So, I have a new worry.  

I worry that if we set limits that she doesn’t like (and I guarantee she won’t like them) we are going to both let her know that this idea has power, and make her mad.  

It would be really easy for this to get spun into “I had a bad feeling and said something and obviously everyone agrees because now they watch him like a hawk.”

 She doesn’t have to believe that, but just saying it in a setting outside the family would have power to do a lot of damage.  

Thoughts?

I think you have to ask her exactly what she meant by it. Then you have to tell her why you disagree about it, but that her comment has made you uncomfortable and so you are setting some new boundaries/rules. Have this conversation with witnesses. 

[Faith-manor]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I agree with all of this, plus I also wanted to add that I’m wondering if there is a possibility that Baseballandhockey is reading too much into her sister-in-law‘s comment because of the history between them.

I can easily imagine someone making an offhand comment like that and not really meaning anything by it. Maybe SIL didn’t grow up in a family where older cousins played with younger ones, or maybe she is thinking that when she was 14, she wanted to hang out with older kids herself, so she was surprised that Baseballandhockey’s ds wants to hang out with her dd. For all we know, SIL might have been talking about her own child and kind of wondering why her 7yo would want to hang out with a 14yo boy. It sounds like this was one comment and that she didn’t elaborate on it or try to turn it into an issue. 

Some people seem to be taking some pretty big leaps here and making a lot of very unpleasant assumptions about the SIL‘s intentions. Sure, she has been a jerk in the past, but I can still easily see how this may have been nothing more than a simple, innocent, offhand comment, and I see no reason to leap to the conclusion that she may be getting ready to accuse Baseballandhockey‘s son of sexual abuse — or that the thought of sexual abuse ever even entered her mind. She may not have even intended it as an insult to Baseballandhockey’s ds; it could’ve just been nothing more than a quick (and instantly forgotten) observation.

I know the SIL has issues, but sometimes people just say things without thinking, and unless that type of comment becomes a pattern, I would just ignore it.

 

I think though that enough has been made known a out sister in law and her problems, that is does speak to a pattern of her being a rather abusive personality. She has spent a lot of time being worse than a jerk towards Baseball. There is something really wrong with this woman so even if she didn't mean what we think she means by it, this is not a relationship in which that conversation can happen so for the sake of the kids, the worst kind of has to be assumed.

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Baseballandhockey said:

So, I have a new worry.  

I worry that if we set limits that she doesn’t like (and I guarantee she won’t like them) we are going to both let her know that this idea has power, and make her mad.  

It would be really easy for this to get spun into “I had a bad feeling and said something and obviously everyone agrees because now they watch him like a hawk.”

 She doesn’t have to believe that, but just saying it in a setting outside the family would have power to do a lot of damage.  

Thoughts?

Honestly, I think you are seriously overthinking this.

Your SIL made one little comment that would probably be something a lot of people would say about an older cousin playing with a much younger cousin, and for some reason, you are assuming this must be part of some sort of evil master plan that she has to destroy your son’s reputation, and that she is planning to accuse him of sexually abusing your dd. 

This seems like a massive overreaction on your part. It was one little comment, and not even an unusual comment, considering the age difference between the kids. 

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

I think you have to ask her exactly what she meant by it. Then you have to tell her why you disagree about it, but that her comment has made you uncomfortable and so you are setting some new boundaries/rules. Have this conversation with witnesses. 

But is it even worth bringing it up at all?

I can see asking her about it if she brings it up again, but people make stupid little offhand comments all the time, and I really think that’s all this probably was. I would think that bringing it up and turning it into a big discussion may very well backfire because it might make the SIL start thinking of a scenario that never even occurred to her.

[catz]

Well I wouldn't play passive aggressive with her and let her run wild with it.  I would just say up front "Because you expressed some concerns, we are going to change our policies to X."  I would probably give the whole family a heads up.  I actually think approaching her directly about it isn't a bad idea.  I think getting in the habit of shutting down her bad behavoir quickly might train her over time to stop pushing buttons.

Given the SIL's history, I would just rather be proactive than sorry.  A simple policy change does not seem like an overreaction to me at all given the history.  I actually think having some very clear boundaries with this family is going to be healthier for your family going forward.  I get that if you are living in FILs home, some of those boundaries might be more difficult.  And if all these kids love each other and get along, it's tough.  I know OP loves and enjoys those kids too.  Can you have a conversation with FIL directly about the concerns and the policy change?

I have actually had instances where my kids were a little overly fascinated with an older kid or group of kids and I just quietly backed away from them spending too much time together alone.  But they were good kids and I didn't think anything weird was going on.  There is no way this wasn't a calculated and measured thing for her to say given her history. 

Actually, I recall some of the issues with the oldest when you had them at your house all the time now too.  

[Faith-manor]

7 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

So, I have a new worry.  

I worry that if we set limits that she doesn’t like (and I guarantee she won’t like them) we are going to both let her know that this idea has power, and make her mad.  

It would be really easy for this to get spun into “I had a bad feeling and said something and obviously everyone agrees because now they watch him like a hawk.”

 She doesn’t have to believe that, but just saying it in a setting outside the family would have power to do a lot of damage.  

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that because this woman is the kind of person about which you have to consider the above and worry about it, you really have to significantly limit contact with her and your kids. That is sad. But she has created this by how difficupt she has been, how much she has taken advantage of you, and how manipulative she is. I would also be inclined to say, should relatives ask, I don't trust her so I have to protect my kids by witnessing all the conversations that take place because she uses my family so badly, and I am not willing to take it anymore. And that will not be well received, however, it can't be helped. She is just not a good person to have around, and unfortunately, who knows what nonsense she fills her kids' heads with so that means by extension, their access to your kids has to be limited and strictly supervised.

I have been there. Textbook actions by my sister in law.

Unfortunately, you cannot control what she says to the extended family or the community. That is always the queasy thing about dealing with these kinds of folks. But appeasement and taking it on the chin does not turn out for the better either. So it doesn't really change what has to be done. Very frustrating for sure!

[Catwoman]

6 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I think though that enough has been made known a out sister in law and her problems, that is does speak to a pattern of her being a rather abusive personality. She has spent a lot of time being worse than a jerk towards Baseball. There is something really wrong with this woman so even if she didn't mean what we think she means by it, this is not a relationship in which that conversation can happen so for the sake of the kids, the worst kind of has to be assumed.

My feeling is entirely different. 

I agree that the SIL seems to have a lot of issues, but I don't think it's fair to hyper-analyze every little thing she says and look for reasons to be offended or worried.

Outside of homeschool circles, I have almost never seen teen cousins playing with the much younger kids, so I can absolutely understand why the SIL might have asked someone else if they thought it was weird. A lot of people would think it was weird. They just would. They wouldn't be thinking of anything sexual: they would just be thinking that, in their circles, the teens tend to stick together or go off on their own, and the little kids play together or are supervised by parents, aunts, or uncles.

I don't really see her comment as being a big deal -- unless Baseballandhockey fixates on it and turns it into a point of contention. I'll bet the SIL forgot all about it as soon as it came out of her mouth.

[Faith-manor]

Just now, Catwoman said:

My feeling is entirely different. 

I agree that the SIL seems to have a lot of issues, but I don't think it's fair to hyper-analyze every little thing she says and look for reasons to be offended or worried.

Outside of homeschool circles, I have almost never seen teen cousins playing with the much younger kids, so I can absolutely understand why the SIL might have asked someone else if they thought it was weird. A lot of people would think it was weird. They just would. They wouldn't be thinking of anything sexual: they would just be thinking that, in their circles, the teens tend to stick together or go off on their own, and the little kids play together or are supervised by parents, aunts, or uncles.

I don't really see her comment as being a big deal -- unless Baseballandhockey fixates on it and turns it into a point of contention. I'll bet the SIL forgot all about it as soon as it came out of her mouth.

I am glad that is your experience, it is not mine. In my circles, they absolutely would instantly go there. I live around a lot of fundie people who have been taught all teen boys are nothing but buck goats in rut. So if someone with a history like this woman's said something like that, circle the wagons is absolutely the right response on behalf of the boys. 

[Dianthus]

9 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

But is it even worth bringing it up at all?

I can see asking her about it if she brings it up again, but people make stupid little offhand comments all the time, and I really think that’s all this probably was. I would think that bringing it up and turning it into a big discussion may very well backfire because it might make the SIL start thinking of a scenario that never even occurred to her.

This reminds me of Fiddler on the Roof.

"You are right, and you are right." 

"They can't both be right."

"You are also right."

 

There's not a simple solution. IMO, you are too close to her family and spend too much time together. I would want more space. She can arrange weekly visits with her father that lives with you (if that's correct, not sure of exact situation?) but you don't need to babysit her kids every day or multiple days a week or ever.

[DreamerGirl]

15 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

She doesn’t have to believe that, but just saying it in a setting outside the family would have power to do a lot of damage.  

I am still reading the thread and this is exactly why I will nip it in the bud. Insinuating and thereby creating trouble for your DS when he was trying to be a good cousin. 

But you need to nip it right now because she is actively trying to hurt your family for whatever perceived sins. There is a pattern here. She just has to drop a few well placed horrible comments for DS to be perceived wrong.

But I am confused why people would watch DS. I did not read the full thread or missed it sorry.

Just let all the cousins play together, one on one. In a big group in a common area with an adult present.

BIL's kids, a boy and girl stay with us all the time without their parents. The girl is as close to DS as a sibling as they are around the same age. They always play together in a big group.

DS when he was little, was part of a big group of kids of our friends of varying ages. Same thing, no one on one and adult presence in the room.

Mostly just to keep the peace because they would bicker or fight.

But by no means single your DS for any attention, negative especially. I would nip that in the bud if any adult suggests that and talk to DS. 

Your son is an empathetic, good and gentle kid who is helpful from all I know of him. He needs to protected from a  ____ (several bad words) like your SIL.

[happi duck]

Iirc, this family moved nearby to all live life together.  Sil doesn't seem to be making that very easy.  (hugs)

[Lecka]

Another adult present called her out on this comment as well, so I think it seems unlikely it is an over-reaction.  
 

If the SIL apologizes after being talked to by her sister and says “I’m sorry I didn’t think about how that came across” then I would think it was an innocent comment.

 

Because it is the kind of comment to call and apologize about if your sister brings it up to you.  

[DreamerGirl]

16 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

My feeling is entirely different. 

I agree that the SIL seems to have a lot of issues, but I don't think it's fair to hyper-analyze every little thing she says and look for reasons to be offended or worried.

I have learned to listen to that voice in my head and never suppress it or try to give the benefit of doubt to others in the name of being fair to them. 

When I first heard of this, I literally went red alert inside because I have seen reputations dashed of people who do not deserve it by a few well placed comments. 

This is not a benign comment. If anyone said that about my son who is 14, I would go thermonuclear on them. As in NC, get out of my house and life. This is not a normal comment by a normal person in a normal situation. 

No way is OP being unfair or jumping to conclusions or being offended.

Edited January 23, 2022 by DreamerGirl

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, DreamerGirl said:

I have learned to listen to that voice in my head and never suppress it or try to give the benefit of doubt to others in the name of being fair to them. 

When I first heard of this, I literally went red alert inside because I have seen reputations dashed of people who do not deserve it by a few well placed comments. 

This is not a benign comment. If anyone said that about my son who is 14, I would go thermonuclear on them. As in NC, get out of my house and life. This is not a normal comment by a normal person in a normal situation. 

No way is OP being unfair or jumping to conclusions or being offended, 

 

Wow, seriously? Thermonuclear? Get out of your house and your life? Over one comment???

I guess it's a good thing that you don't live where I do, because I can very easily imagine people wondering why a teenage boy would be playing with his 7yo cousin -- and not because they were thinking anything untoward was going on, but because where I live, most teens want to seem older than they are, and they don't have any interest in playing with the little kids.

The SIL's comment wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow here. Either people would have agreed with her, or they would have said they thought it was sweet that the kids got along so well. No offense meant and no offense taken. 

 

[Lecka]

I could imagine this being a neutral comment too from someone who was honestly surprised and a nice conversation opener.

I just don’t that is what this is.

Why would someone express this curiosity or interest about her own child?  It is bizarre.

If another person noticed and commented I could see it being neutral.

I don’t think this specific time is neutral or “give the benefit of the doubt.”

I DO think this sentiment could be expressed without implying anything or being offensive. It could be starting a conversation and not meaning anything by it.

But I don’t think that fits.  
 

 

[DreamerGirl]

Just now, Catwoman said:

 

Wow, seriously? Thermonuclear? Get out of your house and your life? Over one comment???

Yes, I have seen reputations trashed, male and female irrespective of ages because of a few well placed seemingly benign comments which other people use to gossip and run with. I always look at the source and intent. In this case, the source of the person is toxic and the intent in there is a history of jealousy and trying to hurt this family while having complete knowledge of the circumstances. My loyalty is always, first and last is to my kid above all and I will always put my kid above all. So I will always go thermonuclear if they try to even hint at hurting my kid.

Just now, Catwoman said:

I guess it's a good thing that you don't live where I do, because I can very easily imagine people wondering why a teenage boy would be playing with his 7yo cousin -- and not because they were thinking anything untoward was going on, but because where I live, most teens want to seem older than they are, and they don't have any interest in playing with the little kids.

The SIL's comment wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow here. Either people would have agreed with her, or they would have said they thought it was sweet that the kids got along so well. No offense meant and no offense taken. 

I live in two worlds. In one world, this will be possible and is. In the other, no. 

[catz]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

The SIL's comment wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow here. Either people would have agreed with her, or they would have said they thought it was sweet that the kids got along so well. No offense meant and no offense taken. 

There are some settings and contexts I can see that as possibly being true.  Though a parent who really didn't want her 7 year old hanging out with a teen would more likely just quietly create some new boundaries for their family.  Maybe talk it through with a friend or sibling.  Given the situation with this SIL as of late, I absolutely agree with OP's reaction to set a boundary on her end.  

If you've truly not had toxic or negative people in your life, count yourself lucky.  

[prairiewindmomma]

49 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

I think you have to ask her exactly what she meant by it. Then you have to tell her why you disagree about it, but that her comment has made you uncomfortable and so you are setting some new boundaries/rules. Have this conversation with witnesses. 

This. The entire conversation needs to happen with witnesses—not spouses of either party, but other in-laws. 
 

There is a potential for lying/gaslighting/spin here that can blowback onto you and your family if she has ill intent (and I think she does given all of the history). Since your husband’s family is so intertwined, everyone needs to hear it from the horse’s mouth so that everyone is on the same page.

[catz]

I will also say, there have been lots of threads here where I sit on my hands and not respond at all because I think someone may be making a mountain out of a molehill.  Which may or may not be true right?  I don't know everyone's history, relationships, back stories, etc.  And sometimes people just need to vent.

For some reason I just remember more backstory of the OPs.  Probably because parts of her story are difficult and heart wrenching and sad and if I could send her some peace and hope and joy in a box, I would ship it off today.   

But ugh, as the parent of a young adult male, I am not sure I could let this go in most contexts.  UNLESS the SIL followed back up and apologized after being called out on this by her own sister.  I do know a few people who just run their mouth where I maybe wouldn't over think it.  I do have other people where I'd confront them directly and say what they meant by that.  But it would most likely change boundaries and the relationship in some way.  These kids really were together like siblings for a LONG time.  

[Katy]

First have a frank conversation with FIL. 

Group text. Include all aunts & uncles.

“Because there have been concerns expressed that my kid’s relationship with (Cousin) is ‘weird’ we have decided for everyone’s protection cousins will no longer have unsupervised play. As a result, going forward I will not be babysitting.”

[DreamerGirl]

12 minutes ago, catz said:

as the parent of a young adult male, I am not sure I could let this go in most contexts.

This.

As the parent of a young adult male nothing my mind can come out puts it in a context I could let go. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by DreamerGirl
Clarity

[Melissa Louise]

50 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

My feeling is entirely different. 

I agree that the SIL seems to have a lot of issues, but I don't think it's fair to hyper-analyze every little thing she says and look for reasons to be offended or worried.

Outside of homeschool circles, I have almost never seen teen cousins playing with the much younger kids, so I can absolutely understand why the SIL might have asked someone else if they thought it was weird. A lot of people would think it was weird. They just would. They wouldn't be thinking of anything sexual: they would just be thinking that, in their circles, the teens tend to stick together or go off on their own, and the little kids play together or are supervised by parents, aunts, or uncles.

I don't really see her comment as being a big deal -- unless Baseballandhockey fixates on it and turns it into a point of contention. I'll bet the SIL forgot all about it as soon as it came out of her mouth.

It's more usual here for teens to spend a little time with much younger cousins, because it's nice to be nice to your little cousins, but then go off to do teen stuff. 

Weird is a bad choice of word for a teen who enjoys hanging out with a younger relative, but the situation described is relatively less usual than the teens going off on their own. What you describe is, I think, 'the norm'.

I would not think it was nefarious that an older male cousin was kind and caring to a younger cousin when she happened to came over. That's totally usual. 

I would only raise an eyebrow if the teen was angling for opportunities with younger cousin, or there appeared to be an element of secrecy in their interactions. 

I agree with you that the comment was more likely to be 'isn't it a bit unusual that a teen actually wants to hang out with a little kid a lot?' rather than a master plan to accuse the teen of being a predator. 

The background noise to this, of course, is that sexual abuse does happen, and males are (statistically speaking) much riskier than females.

There probably is an element of 'weird' that relates to the teen being male. While females do abuse, they abuse at lower rates, and a female teen is lower risk. 

I think the OP's extended family suffers from considerable ( if understandable) enmeshment, and that working towards emotional and physical space between the families is probably going to be an important part of healing the immediate family. 

This ongoing thing with the SIL is a stress the OP doesn't need, but it's likely to keep simmering while everyone is so entwined. 

[Melissa Louise]

I think ppl in general should stop going mama bear about males + abuse risk.

I've got a son. He's lovely. He's a very kind person, and he is nice to his little cousin. I would be stunned if he ever behaved abusively. This kid is truly a very nice person. 

At the same time - statistically speaking, he's more of a risk than his female sisters. He is part of a riskier population - males. 

It is possible to hold these two thoughts in ones head without thinking our sons are either creeps or entirely angelic beings who can do no wrong. 

 

 

 

 

[Lecka]

Well the bright side of increasing the supervision level is that it addresses this possibility as well.  So I don’t see that as being ignored.  
 

Edit:  that’s not my focus AT ALL but it is not lost on me.  

 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Lecka

[Lecka]

I agree it would be a lot easier to manage this if there wasn’t a shared house where other adults can invite the cousins over.  
 

It would be a lot easier if you were accepting a visit to another location and then choosing how long you stayed.  That is how it would be if you were doing activities at the grandparents’ house without living with them.
 

But if they meet your needs I think it can work 🙂

[Melissa Louise]

I wonder if when family comes over, the Dads could take the lead here  in terms of taking all the cousins outside to play a game, or getting everyone around a board game etc. 

 

[Melissa Louise]

34 minutes ago, Katy said:

First have a frank conversation with FIL. 

Group text. Include all aunts & uncles.

“Because there have been concerns expressed that my kid’s relationship with (Cousin) is ‘weird’ we have decided for everyone’s protection cousins will no longer have unsupervised play. As a result, going forward I will not be babysitting.”

The no more babysitting is a good thing, regardless. OP has so much on her plate; this is a good boundary for her. 

 

[Tanaqui]

If you want to know what your SIL means then you should ask her what she means. It would have been best if you'd asked her as soon as she said it, in a calm and non-confrontational way, but it's not too late to ask her now.

She may lie about what she meant. That's okay, because if she meant something untoward and is now lying about it then she'll also be made aware that you aren't going to let her insinuations pass by you.

[Catwoman]

55 minutes ago, catz said:

There are some settings and contexts I can see that as possibly being true.  Though a parent who really didn't want her 7 year old hanging out with a teen would more likely just quietly create some new boundaries for their family.  Maybe talk it through with a friend or sibling.  Given the situation with this SIL as of late, I absolutely agree with OP's reaction to set a boundary on her end.  

If you've truly not had toxic or negative people in your life, count yourself lucky.  

 

7 minutes ago, Lecka said:

Well the bright side of increasing the supervision level is that it addresses this possibility as well.  So I don’t see that as being ignored.  
 

Edit:  that’s not my focus AT ALL but it is not lost on me.  
 

 

I don't think boundaries are a bad idea at all, but not because of this particular issue. I think boundaries are in order because Baseballandhockey and her SIL don't get along, and the more their families interact, the more opportunities there are for conflict.

Let's face it, we all like Baseballandhockey. Of course we are going to want to take her side against the SIL. The SIL sounds like a real jerk! But... if the situation were reversed and Baseballandhockey had posted and asked if we thought it was a little weird that her SIL's 14yo son wanted to spend a lot of time playing with her 7yo dd, I think the responses here would have been entirely different.

Would everyone would have been rushing to defend the SIL's 14yo in that situation, as we have been doing here? Or do you think that, instead, many people would be telling Baseballandhockey to trust her mama instincts and limit her dd's contact with her teen cousin?

Sure, some of us would have said it was perfectly fine that kids of different ages play together, but I can also guarantee that several people would have gone straight to the sexual abuse scenario in that situation, as well -- only in the exact opposite direction.

Since it seems like Baseballandhockey is already worrying about her SIL's intentions, setting boundaries appears to be the only option -- and it will be better both for her and for the SIL, especially if the SIL is even slightly concerned about her dd's safety. 

 

[Terabith]

5 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

 

I don't think boundaries are a bad idea at all, but not because of this particular issue. I think boundaries are in order because Baseballandhockey and her SIL don't get along, and the more their families interact, the more opportunities there are for conflict.

Let's face it, we all like Baseballandhockey. Of course we are going to want to take her side against the SIL. The SIL sounds like a real jerk! But... if the situation were reversed and Baseballandhockey had posted and asked if we thought it was a little weird that her SIL's 14yo son wanted to spend a lot of time playing with her 7yo dd, I think the responses here would have been entirely different.

Would everyone would have been rushing to defend the SIL's 14yo in that situation, as we have been doing here? Or do you think that, instead, many people would be telling Baseballandhockey to trust her mama instincts and limit her dd's contact with her teen cousin?

Sure, some of us would have said it was perfectly fine that kids of different ages play together, but I can also guarantee that several people would have gone straight to the sexual abuse scenario in that situation, as well -- only in the exact opposite direction.

Since it seems like Baseballandhockey is already worrying about her SIL's intentions, setting boundaries appears to be the only option -- and it will be better both for her and for the SIL, especially if the SIL is even slightly concerned about her dd's safety. 

 

If SIL had any iota of actual concern, I don't think she'd have been using @Baseballandhockey's kid for childcare while they were all working.  

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, Terabith said:

If SIL had any iota of actual concern, I don't think she'd have been using @Baseballandhockey's kid for childcare while they were all working.  

That’s true — I hadn’t even thought of that!

It seems to make it even more likely that this was just an offhand comment and that she wasn’t hinting that there might be any kind of abuse going on.

[DreamerGirl]

14 minutes ago, Terabith said:

If SIL had any iota of actual concern, I don't think she'd have been using @Baseballandhockey's kid for childcare while they were all working.  

A normal person using the DS for child care would be grateful, happy for that.  The opposite will be concern. There are only two options here.

Not just general observation and a throw away comment in a passive aggressive way. Why ? Normal people do not make that random observation unless it is gossip about others. If it is about their own kid and not concern, then why. 

The answer leads to malicious intent on part of SIL towards OPs son. This is not jumping to conclusions or being unfair or getting offended. Based on the little history we know it stands out.

If this was repeated in somewhere else there is a huge chance people will think OP's son is creepy especially since he was involved in child care.

Should we care for gossip ? 

Yes. In this case it could hurt OPs son. He has already suffered through trauma and does not need anything like this because he happened to do a good deed. This woman is not a safe person for either of OPs sons or her family. 

[Melissa Louise]

Firstly, if a teen is going to babysit regularly, it should be formalized. Time, duties, rates of pay. 

The teen should not be doing ad hoc childcare.  At all. 

I would stop that immediately, and give teen the explicit message he does not need to do any babysitting while cousins are there.

If another family member invites them over, that family member is the one providing care. 

Secondly, 'weird' has a number of connotations. Here's one from personal experience, not involving anything nefarious - thinking it odd that my eldest preferred to stay with the littles rather than hang with the teens - it indicated social avoidance and a later ASD diagnosis. It was behaviour outside the norm. Odd. 

 

 

 

 

 

[catz]

Absolutely agree with @Terabith.  This is someone who used OP for months for childcare which is what led this group of kids to be tight.   She used the OP's son to do mom's helper duty.  Given the history and the context, it seems very unlikely to me that was just an oops offhand remark in the context of her other jealous backhanded stuff.  I seriously doubt she thinks anything is going on.

Had OP's SIL posted, would any of us here would have recommended she made a passive aggressive accusatory off handed comment in a group setting to handle this?  I hope not.  I personally often take devil's advocate roles in discussions like this.  I hope we would have recommended she supervise her own child and set up her own boundaries and just keep it to supervised family get togethers.  I actually don't think that is unreasonable if you thought your 7 year old was a little overly interested in an teen cousin and was avoiding stuff with kids her own age.  

I'm glad we can all agree that boundaries are healthy here.  Setting up healthy boundaries for your own kids is not really going mama bear.  We can all acknowledge the dynamics of boys with younger kids but we can also acknowledge this feels like a warning shot from this SIL who has shown some toxic negative tendencies and very good reason to set the boundaries.  Her own sister who knows the dynamics called it out as problematic and not just OP.  If SIL really had an issue, she would have set boundaries long ago.

[Melissa Louise]

2 minutes ago, catz said:

Absolutely agree with @Terabith.  This is someone who used OP for months for childcare which is what led this group of kids to be tight.   She used the OP's son to do mom's helper duty.  Given the history and the context, it seems very unlikely to me that was just an oops offhand remark in the context of her other jealous backhanded stuff.  I seriously doubt she thinks anything is going on.

Had OP's SIL posted, would any of us here would have recommended she made a passive aggressive accusatory off handed comment in a group setting to handle this?  I hope not.  I personally often take devil's advocate roles in discussions like this.  I hope we would have recommended she supervise her own child and set up her own boundaries and just keep it to supervised family get togethers.  I actually don't think that is unreasonable if you thought your 7 year old was a little overly interested in an teen cousin and was avoiding stuff with kids her own age.  

I'm glad we can all agree that boundaries are healthy here.  Setting up healthy boundaries for your own kids is not really going mama bear.  We can all acknowledge the dynamics of boys with younger kids but we can also acknowledge this feels like a warning shot from this SIL who has shown some toxic negative tendencies and very good reason to set the boundaries.  Her own sister who knows the dynamics called it out as problematic and not just OP.  If SIL really had an issue, she would have set boundaries long ago.

Mama bear comment was related to other posters who were up in arms anyone would ever think their sons could ever be considered a risk, not the OP. Just FYI. 

[Melissa Louise]

Here's the thing. 

This is just one in a series of SIL posts. In the end, validating OP that SIL is horrible isn't going to help change the dynamics. 

What will change the dynamics in the family system OP has to work in is changing the dynamics! 

Don't babysit or 'do' for SIL in the short term, hold other family members responsible for cousin care if they choose to provide it, and in the longer term, consider moving back into a home just for the immediate family, where there can be some control over exposure to SIL. 

 

[regentrude]

27 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

and in the longer term, consider moving back into a home just for the immediate family, where there can be some control over exposure to SIL. 

I have been thinking this for a while now, but didn't dare suggest.
Based on her previous posts, all of these problems seem to be related to the multigenerational household situation of the OP's nuclear family and their unusually intimate entanglement with extended family. Which may provide some advantages, but they seem to cause more distress and trouble than they might be worth.
This seems to lay at the root of all these issues, and any band-aid fixes aren't likely to be long-term solutions.

Edited January 23, 2022 by regentrude

[gardenmom5]

I'm sorry this isn't going to be popular, but . . 
14 yo boys have a lot of hormones, and hormones can kick in regardless of intention.  It can be perfectly innocent.  But . .   I would make sure they're always part of a group, and there is always an adult present.  This also protects the 14yo boy.

I know a woman who was the younger child in your scenario. It eventually became a NOT nice relationship. Her older cousin is now in prison.

[Syllieann]

I'm not familiar with the backstory, but if someone made that comment about my son I would be just as likely to think they were implying that the younger girl has a crush as that the boy might be a creep.

Regardless of how she meant it, I think it's prudent to teach kids that age that sometimes people make accusations that are untrue for a variety of reasons.  It's a good idea to leave doors open and be in sight of a third party when the option exists.  I always made sure I did that for teaching faith formation classes and coaching baseball, and it's not because I'm a maligned teenage boy.  It's just smart.  It makes it so parents don't have to wonder and protects me from accusations.  The same is true for loads of situations where there is an older person of either gender working with a child.

Whether my child was the older or younger in this situation, it would grab my attention and I would definitely discuss it with dh.  I would also probably ask some clarifying questions of my child in order to understand the situation better.  Young girls can make confused attempts at seduction too, it's not just teenage boys who act inappropriately.  Discussing with him how he might handle such a situation could be helpful.

[DreamerGirl]

Re: Multi-generational families

I grew up in one. In my culture, it is called a joint family. Two grandparents, two parents and my brother and I. It was not exactly a choice for my mom and it had difficulties between adults especially between my parents and grandparents as they navigated being parents to adults who are parents themselves. 

My mom did not raise us entirely and my grandmother in many ways is the person who taught me the basics. I suppose it was a loss for my mom. It was annoying at times because 4 people would discipline you instead of 2. But 1000% (no not a typo of an extra 0) it was better for my brother and me.

So much so when I had a choice here, we could have been a small family.  I recreated it with my parents and inlaws visiting and living with us for months for DS. We too had boundary issues but universally good for DS and something I regret DD does not have because she is too little and they are too old to come now. Especially when I had a lot of miscarriages, death of a child, on bed rest and could not parent and sometimes both DH and I combined, they were the net. The house was clean, healthy meals prepared, I had time to rest and grieve. DS was not affected much and we survived relatively unscathed because they were our net. 

The reason for all this rambling is because I wanted to preface my experience with intergenerational families, both good and bad.

OPs position is like that. She has an excellent GFIL and FIL who are immensely supportive. They have been there time and time again. it is a healthy environment especially for their boys. It helps OP immensely otherwise I don't think she would be standing. 

The fly in the ointment and the difference in her situation and mine is our siblings, both DH's and mine were not jealous of the attention and time our parents and inlaws gave us. There were years where they lived with us back to back  for 6 months (the longest they could stay on a visitor visa). 

OP has a supportive family for the most part including a BIL and a SIL from what I know. The other SIL is not. The loudest and the most toxic does not mean the rest is not necessary or helpful. 

[Melissa Louise]

Families can give support and be close without living in the same home. 

[DreamerGirl]

10 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Families can give support and be close without living in the same home. 

And for a variety of reasons, families have to share a home. It could be economics, support and caregiving which is what happened to OP originally from what I know. 

You cannot let perfect be the enemy of the good. In this case, from what I know it is mostly good inside.  It is the external forces that seem to create trouble.

Her boys see two generation of supportive men in the great grand father and grand father. That is a role model in itself.  She has someone other than herself be an additional support day or night and makes a huge difference to OP herself IMO. She can let go at times, not be on always. I lived this so I know how much not worrying your kid is taken care of when you yourself cannot always be there or even parent can be of immense help.

I am sure OP would love to go back to her previous life. But when someone is clearly struggling moving in with family or friends is sometimes the net and they make the difference.

[Melissa Louise]

13 minutes ago, DreamerGirl said:

And for a variety of reasons, families have to share a home. It could be economics, support and caregiving which is what happened to OP originally from what I know. 

You cannot let perfect be the enemy of the good. In this case, from what I know it is mostly good inside.  It is the external forces that seem to create trouble.

Her boys see two generation of supportive men in the great grand father and grand father. That is a role model in itself.  She has someone other than herself be an additional support day or night and makes a huge difference to OP herself IMO. She can let go at times, not be on always. I lived this so I know how much not worrying your kid is taken care of when you yourself cannot always be there or even parent can be of immense help.

I am sure OP would love to go back to her previous life. But when someone is clearly struggling moving in with family or friends is sometimes the net and they make the difference.

Sure. Good and bad. It's just harder to have tight boundaries in the same space. 

 

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, DreamerGirl said:

And for a variety of reasons, families have to share a home. It could be economics, support and caregiving which is what happened to OP originally from what I know. 

You cannot let perfect be the enemy of the good. In this case, from what I know it is mostly good inside.  It is the external forces that seem to create trouble.

Her boys see two generation of supportive men in the great grand father and grand father. That is a role model in itself.  She has someone other than herself be an additional support day or night and makes a huge difference to OP herself IMO. She can let go at times, not be on always. I lived this so I know how much not worrying your kid is taken care of when you yourself cannot always be there or even parent can be of immense help.

I am sure OP would love to go back to her previous life. But when someone is clearly struggling moving in with family or friends is sometimes the net and they make the difference.

 

4 hours ago, DreamerGirl said:

I have learned to listen to that voice in my head and never suppress it or try to give the benefit of doubt to others in the name of being fair to them. 

When I first heard of this, I literally went red alert inside because I have seen reputations dashed of people who do not deserve it by a few well placed comments. 

This is not a benign comment. If anyone said that about my son who is 14, I would go thermonuclear on them. As in NC, get out of my house and life. This is not a normal comment by a normal person in a normal situation. 

No way is OP being unfair or jumping to conclusions or being offended.

If the goal is truly to continue such a close and intertwined family relationship, I'm wondering how these two posts (quoted above) could co-exist.

How could Baseballandhockey "go thermonuclear" on her SIL if she still needs to try to keep the peace (because she will still be seeing the SIL on a very regular basis,) so the rest of the family members aren't forced to take sides? How could she keep the SIL "out of her house and her life" based upon one unwanted comment about her ds? 

Obviously, if the SIL continues to make similar remarks, the situation will need to be addressed, but you seem to be having such a visceral reaction to a brief comment that many people wouldn't consider to be a big deal, so I'm wondering what you think Baseballandhockey should do about it right now -- considering the fact that she apparently can't just cut her SIL out of her life if things go poorly and the confrontation turns into a big fight.