My ramblings about KFC and their suspicious new nuggets

[katilac]

10 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

 Impossible Burgers are -- shockingly-- delicious!  But not healthy: highly processed, artificial ingredients, laden with fat, no information about land use or water.  Packaged in 3 layers of plastic clamshells that will sit in landfills for thousands of years. And in my area, 2x the cost of burger.

I've only had it one time, but my Impossible Whopper came in a paper wrapper just like a regular Whopper. 

9 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

I don’t like pretend-foods- if you don't want to eat meat, that's your choice- but why eat meat-like things?  

Because they're delicious? 

6 hours ago, regentrude said:

The irony is that these plant based nuggets aren't actually suitable for vegans and vegetarians - because KFC fries them in the same fryer as the chicken ones. 

They aren't suitable for some vegans and vegetarians. Others won't care at all. I'll leave it at that, bc Correlano said it very well (quoted below). 

3 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

This may not be true, but I heard somewhere that KFC would fry the plant nuggets in a separate fryer if requested. If that’s true, that means I could ask them to fry me up some greasy gluten free seasoned fries on the rare occasion.

Nope. If they were doing to do this, they would have a dedicated fryer and do it all of the time. They can't drain a fryer, refill it, and heat it upon request. 

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I eat a fully plant-based diet, and I don't understand the issue with eating food cooked on the same equipment that was used for animal products. It doesn't cause any additional suffering or death for animals, it doesn't cause any additional environmental damage or use additional resources (and you could argue that it prevents the waste of resources by not requiring two separate fryers full of oil, etc.), and it doesn't make plant-based food less healthy to be cooked next to animal-based food (and if you're eating fast food, health isn't the reason you're there anyway).

 

I know a lot of v-people who would fit this category. 

13 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

My son is not a vegan nor a vegetarian but he does have a mammal meat allergy due to tick bites (he had one and got the allergy and then he had a second one and his allergy got even worse).  He can't eat fries cooked in hamburger oil.  I don't think he eats at fast food restaurants because of the cross contamination.  He may have stopped eating at restaurants altogether- I am not sure but I think he has had to because of so much cross contamination.

I'm not sure what you mean by hamburger oil (I don't know of any place that deep-fries their burgers), but if cross-contamination is a problem, then yes, that makes eating out at many places impossible. There are vegetarian restaurants, though! 

[katilac]

23 minutes ago, YaelAldrich said:

Wait? You will not eat food cooked in CLEAN pots and pans (or ovens) that once cooked flesh/egg/milk/whatever not vegan food in it? Meaning you only eat in other vegan's homes (who were always vegan)? And you don't eat in vegan restaurants unless you can ascertain that the pots (etc) were only ever used in vegan cooking?

Restaurant equipment tends to make the rounds from one place to the next, bc they go out of business so often, so I'd say the chances of a local restaurant starting out with all new equipment is close to nil. 

3 hours ago, mathnerd said:

I was just going to post that they have been refusing to use a separate fryer for the vegan chicken nuggets according to some people who tried to ask for it ... (personally, I would not eat anything cooked on the same surface used for meat prep or meat cooking)

There is no 'separate fryer' to use. All the fryers are in use. To cook the vegan nuggets in a separate fryer, they would have to have a fryer dedicated to that all the time. Changing out the oil in a fryer is not a quick thing; it takes hours just to cool down enough to drain it, so 'upon request' is not a thing that can happen. If a location dedicated a fryer to v-nuggets, they would likely not have enough capacity to cook their other food items. It's just a practical thing. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by katilac

[Selkie]

42 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I don't have a problem with soy bean curd or soy bean anything.  Calling something a soy burger is fine.  Just like hamburger means beef burger,  chicken burger means chicken meat is used,  salmon burger has salmon flesh, etc. 

Calling something a vegan egg is nonssense.  I don't know what it is but it isn't a chicken egg, duck egg, etc.  It isn't any sort of egg.  Call it an egg substitute.  Call a vegan cheese, a cheese substitute.  

I am not against having processed foods--- yes, bread and yogurt are processed- though often minimally.  But vegan yogurt is processed and not a yogurt-at best it is a yogurt substitute.  The fake milk people label their fake milk=almond milk, etc  So should all the other substitutes.

I'm curious, why do you care what vegan products are called? I don't understand why that would be upsetting. Animals aren't the only ones who have eggs - plants do, too. Likewise, the words cheese and milk do not apply only to foods made from the secretions of an animal.

[mathnerd]

24 minutes ago, YaelAldrich said:

Wait? You will not eat food cooked in CLEAN pots and pans (or ovens) that once cooked flesh/egg/milk/whatever not vegan food in it? Meaning you only eat in other vegan's homes (who were always vegan)? And you don't eat in vegan restaurants unless you can ascertain that the pots (etc) were only ever used in vegan cooking?

No. I will not eat deep fried foods that are cooked in the same oil which is used to cook meat or fish before the vegan food is cooked. I will not eat food that is stir-fried in a pot which had meats stir-fried before my food was cooked without washing in between. In my local Asian restaurants, when I order their vegan dishes, they use a dedicated wok and cutting board to cook all the vegan orders and that is pretty standard practice. In my "make your own pizza to order" place and local sandwich place, the person making my order changes their gloves when I say that I want to order their vegan option without me having to ask - they also use a separate plastic cutting board and knife to cut my sandwich etc. My local Israeli Falafel place has a separate counter for vegans with a separate deep-fryer (there are a lot of vegans in my neck of the woods).

[YaelAldrich]

8 minutes ago, katilac said:

Restaurant equipment tends to make the rounds from one place to the next, bc they go out of business so often, so I'd say the chances of a local restaurant starting out with all new equipment is close to nil. 

There is no 'separate fryer' to use. All the fryers are in use. To cook the vegan nuggets in a separate fryer, they would have to have a fryer dedicated to that all the time. Changing out the oil in a fryer is not a quick thing; it takes hours just to cool down enough to drain it, so 'upon request' is not a thing that can happen. If a location dedicated a fryer to v-nuggets, they would likely not have enough capacity to cook their other food items. It's just a practical thing. 

We are adjacent to restaurant life and know that to be true . To use used equipment in a kosher restaurant it has be koshered to use it in a kosher environment. My son is a vegan (sometimes too sanctimonious) and he'll eat off of our clean used for meat (or eggs) or dairy pots. I would die if I had to obtain a FOURTH set of year round dishes (kosher keepers who eat meat and dairy need separate everything -dishes, pots, etc. I have another set of pans and baking things for non-dairy and non-meat food)

 

[YaelAldrich]

9 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

No. I will not eat deep fried foods that are cooked in the same oil which is used to cook meat or fish before the vegan food is cooked. I will not eat food that is stir-fried in a pot which had meats stir-fried before my food was cooked without washing in between. In my local Asian restaurants, when I order their vegan dishes, they use a dedicated wok and cutting board to cook all the vegan orders and that is pretty standard practice. In my "make your own pizza to order" place and local sandwich place, the person making my order changes their gloves when I say that I want to order their vegan option without me having to ask - they also use a separate plastic cutting board and knife to cut my sandwich etc. My local Israeli Falafel place has a separate counter for vegans with a separate deep-fryer (there are a lot of vegans in my neck of the woods).

But you wouldn't ever eat from a pot/cutting board that was clean but previously used for not vegan food? How do you really know?

I totally understand about not wanting to eat vegan from dirty not vegan pots and pans. I'm just not sure how viable it is. What happens after hours?

[mathnerd]

1 minute ago, YaelAldrich said:

But you wouldn't ever eat from a pot/cutting board that was clean but previously used for not vegan food? How do you really know?

I totally understand about not wanting to eat vegan from dirty not vegan pots and pans. I'm just not sure how viable it is. What happens after hours?

I would eat from a pot/cutting board if it is clean! I was doing other things and posting and my language was not clear! If there are no traces of meat (fish as well) in my cooking medium and it has been well cleaned or washed and if the deep-frying oil has not been used for animal products, I am good 🙂

 

[YaelAldrich]

3 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

I would eat from a pot/cutting board if it is clean! I was doing other things and posting and my language was not clear! If there are no traces of meat (fish as well) in my cooking medium and it has been well cleaned or washed and if the deep-frying oil has not been used for animal products, I am good 🙂

 

Come on over! You can eat here at Chez Aldrich. Kashrut (keeping kosher) made it much easier for the (mostly) veganization  of our home. 

[mathnerd]

Just now, YaelAldrich said:

Come on over! You can eat here at Chez Aldrich. Kashrut (keeping kosher) made it much easier for the (mostly) veganization  of our home. 

You are so sweet!

The owner of the falafel place in my neighborhood said that same thing as well! She said that keeping kosher made it effortless for them to convert a part of their restaurant to cater to vegans.

[mathnerd]

31 minutes ago, Selkie said:

I'm curious, why do you care what vegan products are called? I don't understand why that would be upsetting. Animals aren't the only ones who have eggs - plants do, too. Likewise, the words cheese and milk do not apply only to foods made from the secretions of an animal.

I drink a lot of Oat milk - I am not sure what to call it if not Oat "milk" ...

[YaelAldrich]

15 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

I drink a lot of Oat milk - I am not sure what to call it if not Oat "milk" ...

Oat squeezins!

[Pam in CT]

re Impossible Burger packaging

1 hour ago, katilac said:

I've only had it one time, but my Impossible Whopper came in a paper wrapper just like a regular Whopper.

I meant when I buy the patties at the supermarket, to cook and eat at home.  At my Stop & Shop, they come 4 patties in a huge compartmentalized sculpted clamshell package. Totally unnecessary. 

For $8.99 pound.

I'm still glad to have the option; my vegetarian daughter really likes them.  (Husband and I enjoy them as well, though we also eat regular beef burgers on occasion.)

Better on the land. Better for water, which is looking to become an ever more pressing constraint in the decades ahead.  Probably (?) less exploitative labor force issues across the supply chain.  Nice option for my kosher-keeping friends, who can finally enjoy a good cheddar & onion burger.

But not a panacea either.

 

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Selkie said:

Likewise, the words cheese and milk do not apply only to foods made from the secretions of an animal.

That is the least-appealing way to refer to cheese and milk that I have heard 😜

53 minutes ago, YaelAldrich said:

I would die if I had to obtain a FOURTH set of year round dishes (kosher keepers who eat meat and dairy need separate everything -dishes, pots, etc. I have another set of pans and baking things for non-dairy and non-meat food)

 

Oh, man, I guess so! I guess people who keep kosher tend to have large kitchens! 

4 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re Impossible Burger packaging

I meant when I buy the patties at the supermarket, to cook and eat at home.  At my Stop & Shop, they come 4 patties in a huge compartmentalized sculpted clamshell package. Totally unnecessary. 

And seems so counter to their market!

[YaelAldrich]

3 minutes ago, katilac said:

That is the least-appealing way to refer to cheese and milk that I have heard 😜

Oh, man, I guess so! I guess people who keep kosher tend to have large kitchens!

And that's why they should be called <stuff> squeezins!

It would be nice to have a large kitchen. I have a decent sized one but I drool over some of my friends' kitchens....

[MercyA]

10 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

I don’t like pretend-foods- if you don't want to eat meat, that's your choice- but why eat meat-like things? 

Because they taste good and because they provide protein.

I had a Beyond Burger at Harry Carey's in Chicago and it was AMAZING. Probably one of the best burgers I've ever had, vegan or otherwise. 

I can't wait to try the vegan KFC nuggets. I've literally been craving KFC for YEARS, mostly for the nostalgia factor. My grandpa used to buy KFC once in a while for us as a special treat. 

Also, because they "put an addictive chemical in their chicken that makes you crave it fortnightly..." 😉 

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

The fake milk people label their fake milk=almond milk, etc  

But it's not fake milk. It's real milk from almonds, real milk from rice.

Merriam Webster, second definition for "milk":

A liquid resembling milk in appearance: such as
a: the latex of a plant
b: the contents of an unripe kernel of grain

I mean, hasn't the phrase "coconut milk" been in use for a long time? 

At least one (former) dairy farmer at my church gets all bent out of shape about people using the word milk to describe non-animal milks. I don't get it; that's just what they are called. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by MercyA

[mathnerd]

36 minutes ago, MercyA said:

But it's not fake milk. It's real milk from almonds, real milk from rice.

Merriam Webster, second definition for "milk":

A liquid resembling milk in appearance: such as
a: the latex of a plant
b: the contents of an unripe kernel of grain

I mean, hasn't the phrase "coconut milk" been in use for a long time? 

At least one (former) dairy farmer at my church gets all bent out of shape about people using the word milk to describe non-animal milks. I don't get it; that's just what they are called. 

Likewise, Peanut Butter is butter derived from peanuts (and same for almonds, cashews and so on and so forth). Butter is not from a mammal's milk only. And coconut cream is derived from coconut fats.

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, YaelAldrich said:

And that's why they should be called <stuff> squeezins!

It would be nice to have a large kitchen. I have a decent sized one but I drool over some of my friends' kitchens....

I visited a house for sale once that was listed with 2 kitchens - the realtor said that the owners kept a kosher kitchen and hence had 2 kitchens! Ever since, I had assumed that keeping kosher meant that there were 2 separate kitchens in the household. It must take a lot of planning and organizational skills (and a lot of pans and cutlery) to handle that in one kitchen!

[mathnerd]

52 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Because they taste good and because they provide protein.

I had a Beyond Burger at Harry Carey's in Chicago and it was AMAZING. Probably one of the best burgers I've ever had, vegan or otherwise. 

I can't wait to try the vegan KFC nuggets. I've literally been craving KFC for YEARS, mostly for the nostalgia factor. My grandpa used to buy KFC once in a while for us as a special treat. 

Also, because they "put an addictive chemical in their chicken that makes you crave it fortnightly..." 😉 

Do you have a costco near you? They carry Beyond Burger patties and I noticed that the Trader Joe's in my area seems to be carrying "Impossible" Chicken-nuggets-like product.

https://www.traderjoes.com/home/products/pdp/impossible-chicken-nuggets-073297

https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/whats-new/beyond-meat-now-available-at-costco

 

[MercyA]

6 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

Do you have a costco near you? They carry Beyond Burger patties and I noticed that the Trader Joe's in my area seems to be carrying "Impossible" Chicken-nuggets-like product.

https://www.traderjoes.com/home/products/pdp/impossible-chicken-nuggets-073297

https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/whats-new/beyond-meat-now-available-at-costco

 

There is a Costco and a Trader Joe's (finally!!) about a half hour away. Don't you need a membership to shop at Costco, though?

Edited January 17, 2022 by MercyA

[mathnerd]

13 minutes ago, MercyA said:

There is a Costco and a Trader Joe's (finally!!) about a half hour away. Don't you need a membership to shop at Costco, though?

Yes, you need a membership for costco - I have seen people at their help desk getting a "day pass" like thing for free to try out their store for one day and you can buy what you want during that trip, if that interests you ... (their vegan options keep expanding these days).

[YaelAldrich]

41 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

I visited a house for sale once that was listed with 2 kitchens - the realtor said that the owners kept a kosher kitchen and hence had 2 kitchens! Ever since, I had assumed that keeping kosher meant that there were 2 separate kitchens in the household. It must take a lot of planning and organizational skills (and a lot of pans and cutlery) to handle that in one kitchen!

If one kitchen was in the basement or some out of the way place that was a Passover kitchen. Some families put together a mini kitchen for the one week of the year that we exclude leaven food from our diets. That's another set (or sets) of dishes etc. Yes, that means I have 3 complete sets and one partial set of pots in my house. I don't have a Passover kitchen so the dishes etc get put in boxes in my basement. 

[Frances]

6 hours ago, regentrude said:

But some vegans just find meat gross and the thought of ingesting chicken particles on their plant-based food revolting.

They may be fully aware that they don't contribute to the suffering of animals - but the mere thought of consuming animal substance may be off-putting. Happy to ask my vegan DD specifically. I am pretty sure that for her bf who hasn't ever eaten animal flesh in his life (except maybe for the rare instance of being pranked), the idea would be just yucky.

Eta: frying in oil isn't "cooking next to" . The plant based food literally swims in a vat with chicken crumbs. 

I did ask a vegan friend once because she was definitely one of those people that grilled wait staff every time we ate out together. When I asked her, it was while we were hiking, so not in a restaurant. She really didn’t have an answer except to say that she was raised not eating meat (Hindu in India), but said even though she no longer lives there and no longer considers herself a Hindu, she just kept the diet. She definitely considered it a healthier diet. She couldn’t really explain why she was so concerned about even the slightest bit of cross contamination. She didn’t seem to find meat gross and was fine with others eating it around her, but she also wasn’t at all curious about the taste which I found interesting. It almost seemed more like a habit with her to question wait staff.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Frances

[Selkie]

8 hours ago, mathnerd said:

Do you have a costco near you? They carry Beyond Burger patties and I noticed that the Trader Joe's in my area seems to be carrying "Impossible" Chicken-nuggets-like product.

https://www.traderjoes.com/home/products/pdp/impossible-chicken-nuggets-073297

https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/whats-new/beyond-meat-now-available-at-costco

 

Walmart has both Beyond and Impossible products now, too.

[Soror]

The title has me LOL.

I used to really not understand the desire for substitutions but I kind of get it now. It makes sense that there would be people that have a desire for the texture and taste similar to meat. 99%+(pulled that out of the air) of Americans grow up eating animal products, when you are used to eating certain things it is an adjustment to take that away. Plenty of people have ethical and/or health desire to eat vegan but are still going to desire to have some foods more familiar. I would think especially so for those that are new to it. I know I went GF almost 14 yrs ago and did dairy free for many years. I deeply understand the desire for substitutions for foods you once ate. For me some things ended up being worth it to sub and others didn't. (never did find a df cheese that I really liked)

The thing is so many animal products are highly processed, the fact that there are some vegan products that are also heavily processed, meh. Most Americans eat heavily processed foods on the regular. 

I've dabbled in vegan eating. I've not been able to do it long term but have drastically cut back on the amount of animal foods I eat (especially from my Paleo days). I've not ordered any fake burgers/chickens at restaurants as I hardly eat out as it is. I don't see the fake chicken any worse than any of their other options. It seems about time they started offering some meat free options as they have been offering options for other diets for awhile now. 

 

[ktgrok]

 It actually makes a lot of sense to me. I was a vegetarian for 10 years and it was so frustrating to go out with people and they want to stop and grab some fast food and there wasn't anything for me to eat. That is more who it is appealing to I would think. I was not a vegetarian for health reasons but for animal welfare reasons. I just didn't want to kill animals to eat them.

[Indigo Blue]

My original post started out intentionally semi-tongue in cheek and has turned into an interesting discussion. I feel I have learned a good bit here.

FTR, I have huge lifelong texture issues with real meat. That, along with increasing concern and awareness for how animals are treated in our culture, keeps me from consuming it. Considering the texture issue alone, the idea of fake food with the same texture does not appeal to me. I’ve never tried any, but I feel I would gag just the same as I would with real meat. The idea of a fake, rubbery chicken nugget repulses me. BUT I am understanding the idea behind it all better now, even though I do find the sight of a bucket of fake KFC chicken a bit funny. If it helps/encourages people to eat less meat, then so be it. I’m perplexed by the idea that anyone finds this appealing, but then I have to remember that I don’t know what I’d do with out the gf/vegan pizza that I eat now and then. 

[ktgrok]

12 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

Wait? You will not eat food cooked in CLEAN pots and pans (or ovens) that once cooked flesh/egg/milk/whatever not vegan food in it? Meaning you only eat in other vegan's homes (who were always vegan)? And you don't eat in vegan restaurants unless you can ascertain that the pots (etc) were only ever used in vegan cooking?

I actually need someone like this once. I was hosting them at my apartment in college and even though none of us cooked meat in that apartment they would not eat anything cooked on the pans because maybe they had to give me one minute before I knew my roommates and before my roommate was vegetarian. It was ridiculous. 

[skimomma]

I have been a vegetarian for almost 30 years and have been vegan for significant portions of that time.  I will not be trying the nuggets.  I've never had KFC so have no craving or nostalgia for it and there is not one within 2 hours of my house anyway.  But I get why people might.  One thing that still very much sucks about being vegetarian when everyone we know and socialize with is not is trying to eat out.  Most places now have at least something veggie on the menu but I hate having a special "night out" involve me paying top dollar for yet another round of bland pasta or a sad veggie burger while everyone else is enjoying gourmet food.  KFC hardly falls into this category but again, if you have that one vegetarian in the crowd, knowing there is *something* for them to eat means that whole group is more likely to be customers for that meal.  

I live in an area where the restaurants generally do not put any effort into vegetarian options.  We have disposable cash and like to eat out (in non-pandemic times, anyway).  But we almost never do unless it is to fulfill a social or work obligation.  They are missing not only our patronage but that of our friends too as we usually do meals outside of restaurants due to our not having many options.  Smart businesses recognize this.  KFC is just looking at their bottom line.

We do occasionally buy meat substitutes.  We go camping a lot and a huge part of our social culture involves cookouts, bonfires, and picnics.  It is just *easier* to grab a package of not dogs or veggie burgers rather than come up with an alternative that is sure to be more complicated to deal with.  I make killer homemade veggie burgers that are healthy but it is time consuming process.  Very.  So, when we get that "BBQ in one hour" call from a friend, I am likely going to grab some veggie burgers on the drive over.  We don't even really like them.

I also agree and am appalled with Beyond Burgers packaging.  There is no reason for that!

[Indigo Blue]

I had been wondering about what has been discussed upthread about vegans being super careful about not eating any animal ingredients at all. Bread was mentioned. I haven’t seen any gf AND vegan bread. If it’s there, I bet it doesn’t taste good. IME, there are delicious gf desserts and there are delicious vegan desserts. I’ve never found a delicious gluten free AND vegan dessert. Well, Dayia Cheezecake is pretty good. Would a vegan avoid KATZ doughnuts? What do vegans do for bread if they also eat gf? Schaar bread isn’t vegan. I have learned some vegans go to extremes. What is the norm for MOST vegans? How much can you slide and still be considered vegan? 
 

Where is the invisible line between a plant based diet and vegan? 

[Indigo Blue]

14 minutes ago, skimomma said:

I have been a vegetarian for almost 30 years and have been vegan for significant portions of that time.  I will not be trying the nuggets.  I've never had KFC so have no craving or nostalgia for it and there is not one within 2 hours of my house anyway.  But I get why people might.  One thing that still very much sucks about being vegetarian when everyone we know and socialize with is not is trying to eat out.  Most places now have at least something veggie on the menu but I hate having a special "night out" involve me paying top dollar for yet another round of bland pasta or a sad veggie burger while everyone else is enjoying gourmet food.  KFC hardly falls into this category but again, if you have that one vegetarian in the crowd, knowing there is *something* for them to eat means that whole group is more likely to be customers for that meal.  

I live in an area where the restaurants generally do not put any effort into vegetarian options.  We have disposable cash and like to eat out (in non-pandemic times, anyway).  But we almost never do unless it is to fulfill a social or work obligation.  They are missing not only our patronage but that of our friends too as we usually do meals outside of restaurants due to our not having many options.  Smart businesses recognize this.  KFC is just looking at their bottom line.

We do occasionally buy meat substitutes.  We go camping a lot and a huge part of our social culture involves cookouts, bonfires, and picnics.  It is just *easier* to grab a package of not dogs or veggie burgers rather than come up with an alternative that is sure to be more complicated to deal with.  I make killer homemade veggie burgers that are healthy but it is time consuming process.  Very.  So, when we get that "BBQ in one hour" call from a friend, I am likely going to grab some veggie burgers on the drive over.  We don't even really like them.

I also agree and am appalled with Beyond Burgers packaging.  There is no reason for that!

I hear you. I need to be gf, am repulsed by meat, not touching fake meat, have IBS like issues and tend to stay low FODMAP, so when my family goes out to eat, I don’t even try sometimes. I just stick a plant based bar or protein drink in my bag and tell them to eat wherever they want. When we get there, I may eat whatever might be available if I’m still hungry, such as a dish of broccoli or a potato.  I much prefer to eat at home. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Indigo Blue

[Selkie]

14 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

I had been wondering about what has been discussed upthread about vegans being super careful about not eating any animal ingredients at all. Bread was mentioned. I haven’t seen any gf AND vegan bread. If it’s there, I bet it doesn’t taste good. IME, there are delicious gf desserts and there are delicious vegan desserts. I’ve never found a delicious gluten free AND vegan dessert. Well, Dayia Cheezecake is pretty good. Would a vegan avoid KATZ doughnuts? What do vegans do for bread if they also eat gf? Schaar bread isn’t vegan. I have learned some vegans go to extremes. What is the norm for MOST vegans? How much can you slide and still be considered vegan? 
 

Where is the invisible line between a plant based diet and vegan? 

I’m both vegan and whole food plant based. Vegan for the animals, whole food plant based for my health.

Most people I know who start out eating plant based for health reasons end up becoming vegan as well, once they learn about the horrors of animal agriculture.

[Scarlett]

16 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

I hear you. I need to be gf, am repulsed by meat, have IBS like issues and tend to stay low FODMAP, so when my family goes out to eat, I don’t even try sometimes. I just stick a plant based bar or protein drink in my bag and tell them to eat wherever they want. When we get there, I may eat whatever might be available if I’m still hungry, such as a dish of broccoli or a potato.  I much prefer to eat at home. 

I am that way with meat a lot.  Especially beef and especially if it is a thick steak or some such.  Chicken and fish I am pretty good with, but sometimes even chicken can gross me out if the texture is wrong.  

I could easily be vegetarian.  I do not think I could go vegan.  

[Indigo Blue]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I am that way with meat a lot.  Especially beef and especially if it is a thick steak or some such.  Chicken and fish I am pretty good with, but sometimes even chicken can gross me out if the texture is wrong.  

I could easily be vegetarian.  I do not think I could go vegan.  

My husband icks me out when he leaves nothing but a clean chicken bone on his plate. Yuck. Seriously, though, even though there is no chance of his giving up meat completely, he is comfortable with a lot less meat. So, that’s a plus, and I make veggie suppers as often as I can. He’s getting used to it. He doesn’t complain or really notice when he’s on his third night in a row of a meatless meal. I just have to make sure there is still enough protein. 
 

I started out the same as you when I was young. Lol. It evolved into what it is now. My mom would get frustrated when I picked “weird things” out of my chicken, and even more so when I wouldn’t eat it at all. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Indigo Blue

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Indigo Blue said:

My husband icks me out when he leaves nothing but a clean chicken bone on his plate. Yuck. Seriously, though, even though there is no chance of his giving up meat completely, he is comfortable with a lot less meat. So, that’s a plus, and I make veggie suppers as often as I can. He’s getting used to it. He doesn’t complain or really notice when he’s on his third night in a row of a meatless meal. I just have to make sure there is still enough protein. 

Wow, that is excellent.  You think he would notice if you painted your cabinets?  LOL  j/k....you cabinets are lovely. 

[Indigo Blue]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Wow, that is excellent.  You think he would notice if you painted your cabinets?  LOL  j/k....you cabinets are lovely. 

Ha!! Want me to try it out? 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Indigo Blue

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, Indigo Blue said:

I had been wondering about what has been discussed upthread about vegans being super careful about not eating any animal ingredients at all. Bread was mentioned. I haven’t seen any gf AND vegan bread. If it’s there, I bet it doesn’t taste good. IME, there are delicious gf desserts and there are delicious vegan desserts. I’ve never found a delicious gluten free AND vegan dessert. Well, Dayia Cheezecake is pretty good. Would a vegan avoid KATZ doughnuts? What do vegans do for bread if they also eat gf? Schaar bread isn’t vegan. I have learned some vegans go to extremes. What is the norm for MOST vegans? How much can you slide and still be considered vegan? 
 

Where is the invisible line between a plant based diet and vegan? 

What's vegan bread?  The good bread  that I have baked has water, yeast, flour, a tiny bit of sugar for the yeast to work on, and a small amount of fat.  The fat can be olive oil, or canola, or whatever.  Unless you mean that it is created in an entirely vegan bakery.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Laura Corin

[Selkie]

3 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

My husband icks me out when he leaves nothing but a clean chicken bone on his plate. Yuck. Seriously, though, even though there is no chance of his giving up meat completely, he is comfortable with a lot less meat. So, that’s a plus, and I make veggie suppers as often as I can. He’s getting used to it. He doesn’t complain or really notice when he’s on his third night in a row of a meatless meal. I just have to make sure there is still enough protein. 

My dh was like that until I read him a few snippets from How Not to Die by Dr. Michael Greger. He dropped all animal products like a hot potato once he got a load of the studies in that book.

[TravelingChris]

13 hours ago, katilac said:

I've only had it one time, but my Impossible Whopper came in a paper wrapper just like a regular Whopper. 

Because they're delicious? 

They aren't suitable for some vegans and vegetarians. Others won't care at all. I'll leave it at that, bc Correlano said it very well (quoted below). 

Nope. If they were doing to do this, they would have a dedicated fryer and do it all of the time. They can't drain a fryer, refill it, and heat it upon request. 

I know a lot of v-people who would fit this category. 

I'm not sure what you mean by hamburger oil (I don't know of any place that deep-fries their burgers), but if cross-contamination is a problem, then yes, that makes eating out at many places impossible. There are vegetarian restaurants, though! 

I mean if any mammal meat was cooked or dropped into the deep fryer.  One fascinating thing I learned is how often mammal meat is used in products you would never suspect.  He really has to be careful because depending on his total load of mammal products, he will get an anaphylactic reaction which is very serious.  He does not usually have to avoid milk and cheese but again, it just depends on his total immune system.  Like I figure, it probably isn't the best idea for him to eat lots of cheese on a high pollen day in the Spring.

[Scarlett]

49 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Ha!! Want me to try it out? 

I think that would high risk.  LOL

[Indigo Blue]

54 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

What's vegan bread?  The good bread  that I have baked has water, yeast, flour, a tiny bit of sugar for the yeast to work on, and a small amount of fat.  The fat can be olive oil, or canola, or whatever.  Unless you mean that it is created in an entirely vegan bakery.

I guess I’m thinking more of gluten free bread. It usually contains eggs, as far as I can tell. So I’m wondering what are the options for gf vegans. There are gf, vegan, and organic waffles out there. They are actually really very good.

[Laura Corin]

12 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

I guess I’m thinking more of gluten free bread. It usually contains eggs, as far as I can tell. So I’m wondering what are the options for gf vegans. There are gf, vegan, and organic waffles out there. They are actually really very good.

Ah, I see.  Maybe the eggs are needed to make up for the gf flour not being ideal for bread.

[Selkie]

Just saw this article in my feed and thought this would be a good place to share it:

https://plantbasednews.org/culture/wierd-wonderful/beyond-meat-impossible-foods-animals-us/

Beyond Meat And Impossible Foods Helped Save Nearly 1 Million Animals In The US Last Year

Just two plant-based food companies have helped spare at least 630,000 animals’ lives in 2021, and that’s just in the US. Non-profit World Animal Protection (WAP) collated the data, and stresses that the actual figure is likely significantly higher – nearing to one million. 

The international charity looked at some of the US restaurant chains offering Beyond Meat or Impossible Foods’ products, such as Burger King and Panda Express.

WAP looked at each chain’s portion sizes, how many days a year they are typically open, and how much plant-based food they are likely selling. 

The animal protection charity predicts that in 2021, more than 211,000 pigs, 77,000 cows, and 350,000 chickens were spared by the US food system.

Given that the calculations only scratch the surface of the plant-based movement, WAP believes the figure is closer to one million animals in the US alone.

“Our assessment does not account for the full plant-based product market, such as those sold in grocery stores, menu items that feature other plant-based brands or those made in-house, or Beyond and Impossible products offered at other types of restaurants,” the charity clarifies. 

For instance, last year Impossible Foods rolled out its products to 20,000 grocery stores – up from just 150 locations.

Further, WAP’s analysis does not include egg or dairy products. But data provided by plant-based food brand Zero Egg indicates these figures are similarly impactful. 

Looking purely at its own restaurant sales, Zero Egg revealed that more than a million conventional eggs were left out of US diets in 2021. 

“We believe in making every bite count … Zero Egg’s vision is to empower the era of sustainable foods and we understand that we won’t be able to protect the planet and improve the lives of animals without replacing ordinary eggs with a plant-based option,” said Joe Loria, Zero Egg’s director of communications and marketing.

Loria added that the company’s vegan eggs require 93 percent less water and 92 percent less land to produce compared to conventional eggs. Further, they generate 59 percent fewer greenhouse gas emissions.

WAP acknowledges that there is still progress to be made. Roughly 120 million pigs, nine billion chickens, 30 million cows, and 320 million laying hens are raised or killed for food every year in the US. 

But the tide appears to be turning, as more people (in the US and beyond) ditch animal-based foods. Research from late last year found that just under half (49 percent) of Americans are interested in swapping out meat and dairy in favor of plant-based alternatives. 

And in Veganuary 2021, it’s predicted that more than two million animals’ lives were spared in just a month thanks to those who took the 31-day vegan pledge. This year’s Veganuarycampaign is expected to be its biggest yet.

 

[ktgrok]

I am the type that ate fake meat. I LOVE the taste of meat. But hate killing animals. 

[Indigo Blue]

Selkie, that’s a good article. Thanks for sharing it. 

[MEmama]

FYI both Impossible Burger and Beyond Meat products are made with coconut oil. DH is highly allergic to coconut so we’ve never tried them; DS tried one and declared it meh (he had never eaten a meat burger). There are a number of faux meat products that we really like so we were (mildly) disappointed we couldn’t try these.

I thought I’d put that out there for anyone else with a coconut allergy— it can be really hard to find products that don’t use it nowadays. 

[Frances]

7 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

I had been wondering about what has been discussed upthread about vegans being super careful about not eating any animal ingredients at all. Bread was mentioned. I haven’t seen any gf AND vegan bread. If it’s there, I bet it doesn’t taste good. IME, there are delicious gf desserts and there are delicious vegan desserts. I’ve never found a delicious gluten free AND vegan dessert. Well, Dayia Cheezecake is pretty good. Would a vegan avoid KATZ doughnuts? What do vegans do for bread if they also eat gf? Schaar bread isn’t vegan. I have learned some vegans go to extremes. What is the norm for MOST vegans? How much can you slide and still be considered vegan? 
 

Where is the invisible line between a plant based diet and vegan? 

The only vegan I knew in college basically subsisted on bread, other carbs, and some desserts, as he didn’t like vegetables. But he obviously wasn’t gluten free.

[Spryte]

Not bread, but bagels:  https://www.thegreaterknead.com/

Top 8 free — so GF and egg free.

I feel like our family has other options that might work, too. Will have to think through what we use. We are GF, dairy free, and watch eggs since one kid is allergic. Among other “free froms,” we have lots of food issues. If it says Top 9, we can eat it.

[Spryte]

https://shop-us.bfreefoods.com/products/grilled-panini-2pk-1
 

This one is GF and vegan, according to the label.

We like their products. I don’t think they have a sandwich bread, but the soft white rolls are really good.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have eaten  lots of vegan gluten free products over the years including bread and pumpkin pie. (Though I don’t eat them often because even gf baked goods have carbs. ).