This is a bit worrying - update in later post

[Laura Corin]

One of my brothers has Covid. In the past month, he went into a shop, masked, for a few minutes on 26 October. Apart from that, his only contact has been playing tennis and golf outdoors - he didn't go inside the clubs at all.

I had assumed his wife brought it home from work. But she was testing negative for a week after he fell ill, only testing positive today.

He's doing okay now -  just exhausted. He's double jabbed but not yet boostered. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Laura Corin

[MEmama]

I’m so sorry, Laura.

I just found out an uncle and his partner have Covid. There just seem to be no avoiding it at this point— not that I’m willing to give up trying.

I hope for a speedy and full recovery for your brother. The vaccinations are sure to help. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by MEmama

[Terabith]

I'm so sorry.  That is so worrying.  

[Kassia]

I'm sorry too and hope he feels better soon.

It is very concerning - I feel like most vaccinated people have waning immunity and then there are so many unvaccinated.  My county is almost as bad as it was at its peak, yet no one is even masking.  

[Laura Corin]

8 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I'm so sorry.  That is so worrying.  

He just feels like he could just have met his friends for a drink indoors, if he was going to get Covid anyway with so little contact.

[Ausmumof3]

I’m sorry to hear about that. Hopefully the vaccine still provides some protection against the worst of the illness.

[Ausmumof3]

Just now, Laura Corin said:

He just feels like he could just have met his friends for a drink indoors, if he was going to get Covid anyway with so little contact.

Yes that would feel quite depressing and frustrating. 

[wintermom]

So sorry to hear this. I hope he makes a quick recovery. Has he been able to trace where he was exposed? 

[Laura Corin]

1 minute ago, wintermom said:

So sorry to hear this. I hope he makes a quick recovery. Has he been able to trace where he was exposed? 

No. He has no idea. He assumes one if his mates had an asymptomatic infection but he just doesn't know.

He has atypical heart disease - SCAD - and has had two stents fitted in the past year. He has been so careful. 

[Catwoman]

I’m so sorry, Laura! I hope he makes a quick recovery. I understand why he’s feeling so frustrated about having contracted it after having been so careful!  😞 

[Laura Corin]

Of course I'm worried about him, but I'm also shocked by how he must have been infected. I knew that Delta was very infectious but this is extreme.

[Not_a_Number]

48 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

One of my brothers has Covid. In the past month, he went into a shop, masked, for a few minutes on 26 October. Apart from that, his only contact has been playing tennis and golf outdoors - he didn't go inside the clubs at all.

I had assumed his wife brought it home from work. But she was testing negative for a week after he fell ill, only testing positive today.

He's doing okay now -  just exhausted. He's double jabbed but not yet boostered. 

She might have still brought it home from work. The incubation period can be long. 

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Of course I'm worried about him, but I'm also shocked by how he must have been infected. I knew that Delta was very infectious but this is extreme.

I agree — it’s very scary to think that someone who has been so cautious, somehow still managed to get sick. Did he ride next to anyone in a golf cart? That’s the only place I can think of that might have been a close contact. I didn’t count the shop he visited because he was masked, but I guess there could have been a bit of exposure if the shop was crowded and other people weren’t wearing masks.

[Kassia]

17 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

 

He has atypical heart disease - SCAD - and has had two stents fitted in the past year. He has been so careful. 

Oh, that's even more concerning.  I'm sorry.

8 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

 I'm also shocked by how he must have been infected. I knew that Delta was very infectious but this is extreme.

I'm seeing this a lot.  It's really scary.

[Not_a_Number]

9 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Of course I'm worried about him, but I'm also shocked by how he must have been infected. I knew that Delta was very infectious but this is extreme.

Was he masking outdoors, out of curiosity? 

[Catwoman]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

She might have still brought it home from work. The incubation period can be long. 

That’s true. I hadn’t done the math, but she might very well be the point of exposure. I would actually be relieved to hear that she was, because the other options are much more frightening.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Catwoman said:

That’s true. I hadn’t done the math, but she might very well be the point of exposure. I would actually be relieved to hear that she was, because the other options are much more frightening.

I do also tend to assume that maskless long term outdoor exposure can result in transmission. So it depends how distanced he was with his friends, too. 

[Laura Corin]

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

She might have still brought it home from work. The incubation period can be long. 

I didn't know that.

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I agree — it’s very scary to think that someone who has been so cautious, somehow still managed to get sick. Did he ride next to anyone in a golf cart? That’s the only place I can think of that might have been a close contact. I didn’t count the shop he visited because he was masked, but I guess there could have been a bit of exposure if the shop was crowded and other people weren’t wearing masks.

No golf cart. He walks.

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Was he masking outdoors, out of curiosity? 

No.

[Katy]

Yes, Delta is highly contagious even outdoors.  I’m so glad he is vaccinated. 

[Catwoman]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

I do also tend to assume that maskless long term outdoor exposure can result in transmission. So it depends how distanced he was with his friends, too. 

I don’t go anywhere near anyone, indoors or outdoors, without a mask, but people keep telling me that I am overly cautious. I did worry about the possibility of exposure in a golf cart, but otherwise, I would think there would be quite a bit of distance between Laura’s brother and his friends. 

Again, I would have worn a mask, but I can understand why others wouldn’t, particularly because the media and health officials have mostly promoted outdoor activities as being quite safe.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Laura Corin said:

I didn't know that.

The question is whether she could be sufficiently contagious to infect him before developing symptoms. I'm looking this up now... people are apparently maximally contagious a few days before getting symptoms, so I don't know if that works with the timeline or not. 

Of course, married people do have many more opportunities to infect each other than most... I don't know how contagious she'd have to be! 

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

I don’t go anywhere near anyone, indoors or outdoors, without a mask, but people keep telling me that I am overly cautious. I did worry about the possibility of exposure in a golf cart, but otherwise, I would think there would be quite a bit of distance between Laura’s brother and his friends. 

Again, I would have worn a mask, but I can understand why others wouldn’t, particularly because the media and health officials have mostly promoted outdoor activities as being quite safe.

You are not overly cautious. If people question this they need to look into what’s been discovered in New Zealand, where every infection is genetically traced.  You can definitely contract it more than 6 feet apart outdoors. 

[Laura Corin]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

The question is whether she could be sufficiently contagious to infect him before developing symptoms. I'm looking this up now... people are apparently maximally contagious a few days before getting symptoms, so I don't know if that works with the timeline or not. 

Of course, married people do have many more opportunities to infect each other than most... I don't know how contagious she'd have to be! 

At first glance the incubation period for Delta seems to be shorter. 

[Catwoman]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

The question is whether she could be sufficiently contagious to infect him before developing symptoms. I'm looking this up now... people are apparently maximally contagious a few days before getting symptoms, so I don't know if that works with the timeline or not. 

Of course, married people do have many more opportunities to infect each other than most... I don't know how contagious she'd have to be! 

I agree. I would think the viral load would definitely be an issue with a married couple. Even if his wife wasn’t all that contagious, I would think the amount of time and exposure would still be pretty high. I have heard about married couples where one got Covid and the other didn’t, though, so I guess a lot of this may hinge on how strong a person’s immune system is.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Katy said:

You are not overly cautious. If people question this they need to look into what’s been discovered in New Zealand, where every infection is genetically traced.  You can definitely contract it more than 6 feet apart outdoors. 

Yeah, you definitely can. It's not that likely, but you can. 

Ultimately, every interaction one has is a roll of the dice, and the only thing you can change is the odds on the dice. If you do just about anything enough times, you're likely to get COVID. 

I'm at this point giving up on not getting it, frankly. I'm vaccinated and boosted and my kids just got their first shots. There are finally effective drugs coming out, and I don't think we can take a longer break from our life. 

We'll definitely still be somewhat careful, but so far, we've made sure the probability of us getting it at all is teeny. I don't think we'll be doing that anymore. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Laura Corin said:

At first glance the incubation period for Delta seems to be shorter. 

Yeah, and a week seems too long to be contagious before getting symptoms anyway. So one might have to scratch that possibility. Too bad, since it's the least scary one! 

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, Katy said:

You are not overly cautious. If people question this they need to look into what’s been discovered in New Zealand, where every infection is genetically traced.  You can definitely contract it more than 6 feet apart outdoors. 

Thanks! 🙂  There are so many mixed messages about the virus, and especially about the Delta strain, that it can be very frustrating to try to determine what precautions are truly necessary and which ones might be overkill. We have been so careful since early February of last year, so I feel like it would be kind of stupid to let our guard down now, when it looks like good medications are (hopefully) right around the corner.

[lewelma]

24 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Of course I'm worried about him, but I'm also shocked by how he must have been infected. I knew that Delta was very infectious but this is extreme.

I am so sorry. 😞 NZ has borne out the highly infectious nature. The entire outbreak we currently have has been linked to a 1 minute exposure outside in a public walkway near the quarantine hotel exercise area that has a 3 meter high fence. The scientists have all the genomes for all the cases here and that is the only way it could have been acquired. I guess there is the typical, the rare, and the very rare. And I am really sorry that your brother fell in the very rare camp.

Edited November 13, 2021 by lewelma

[Catwoman]

Just now, lewelma said:

I am so sorry. 😞 NZ has borne out the highly infectious nature. The entire outbreak we currently have has been linked to a 1 minute exposure outside in a public walkway near the quarantine hotel exercise area that has a 3 meter high fence. The scientists have all the genomes for all the cases here and that is the only way it could have been acquired. I guess there is the typical, the rare, and the very rare. And I am really sorry that he fell in the very rare camp.

That is absolutely terrifying. 😞 

[lewelma]

Just now, Catwoman said:

That is absolutely terrifying. 😞 

188,000 people have gone through quarantine hotels here, and only 1 case has been acquired in this way. That is quite a number of standard deviations out.

[Not_a_Number]

22 minutes ago, lewelma said:

188,000 people have gone through quarantine hotels here, and only 1 case has been acquired in this way. That is quite a number of standard deviations out.

Right. Exactly. You're rolling dice, and your dice can have 188,000 sides or 1,000, and those are very different numbers, magnitude-wise. But you COULD get unlucky with any of them. 

[KSera]

49 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Of course I'm worried about him, but I'm also shocked by how he must have been infected. I knew that Delta was very infectious but this is extreme.

I've been feeling like I'm ready to start going in stores again, but your story has me second guessing that. I probably still will, because I'm now boosted and have very good masks and I know it's highly unlikely, but I still have one too young for the vaccine, so it give me pause.

[Syllieann]

I don't think it could be from the wife.  Though it's possible for incubation to be longer, she was testing every day.  If she was t turning the rest positive, it's pretty unlikely she was shedding enough virus to infect him.  It would be different if she hadn't been testing daily.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Syllieann said:

I don't think it could be from the wife.  Though it's possible for incubation to be longer, she was testing every day.  If she was t turning the rest positive, it's pretty unlikely she was shedding enough virus to infect him.  It would be different if she hadn't been testing daily.

Yeah, I think you're right. Wishful thinking on my part. 

[Kassia]

41 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I agree. I would think the viral load would definitely be an issue with a married couple. Even if his wife wasn’t all that contagious, I would think the amount of time and exposure would still be pretty high. I have heard about married couples where one got Covid and the other didn’t, though, so I guess a lot of this may hinge on how strong a person’s immune system is.

It is so strange how some people don't get infected even with very close contact and others do with minimal contact or don't even know how they got it because they are so careful.  Sometimes seems random but I guess you're right about the immune system issue.

[Ausmumof3]

The weird thing is there’s so many infection routes we haven’t really ruled out but we just don’t consider I guess.  Like we don’t worry much about surface contact but it’s still theoretically possibly from a tennis ball or something, and we don’t know 100pc about water and toilet aerosols and any of that or even wildlife interactions.  We know where most transmission happens and that’s all we’ve really got the mental space to worry about. 

[Catwoman]

17 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The weird thing is there’s so many infection routes we haven’t really ruled out but we just don’t consider I guess.  Like we don’t worry much about surface contact but it’s still theoretically possibly from a tennis ball or something, and we don’t know 100pc about water and toilet aerosols and any of that or even wildlife interactions.  We know where most transmission happens and that’s all we’ve really got the mental space to worry about. 

I actually worry about most of those things, because as we all know, I am a paranoid lunatic when it comes to Covid.

Even though they say it's not necessary, I still sanitize everything that comes into my house (or quarantine some things for a while instead of sanitizing them.) I won't use any public restrooms. I don't worry about water, though, and while I love wildlife, I don't touch any wild animals, so at least I don't stress over those few things. But overall, I am a worrier.

[DreamerGirl]

I am sorry Laura.

One thing I did when I went to India was always mask outside. I had people touch me but I wore gloves and they did and masks of course. I was also very diligent about hand sanitizer and hand washing.

I did not live in the same house as my brother's kids as they were unvaxxed.

I was not boostered then. In fact, I am getting my booster this coming week. But paranoid precaution and constant testing kept us all safe. Plus all adults were vaxxed.

DS goes to PS. DD was unvaxxed until recently. Diligent sanitizing, precautions of changing as soon as he comes home, masking all have kept her safe for which I was so thankful.

I think the odds of us catching COVID will lessen but not impossible. But as the treatment options increase I am optimistic. 

Hope your brother recovers soon.

[Terabith]

I don't understand how his wife could given him covid before she tested positive.  I know the incubation period can be long, but I don't see how he could test positive before she did, if he contracted it from her.  

[KSera]

7 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I don't understand how his wife could given him covid before she tested positive.  I know the incubation period can be long, but I don't see how he could test positive before she did, if he contracted it from her.  

I've been thinking about this, too. I could see it if she was doing rapid antigen tests initially and then finally did a PCR test, and that's when she tested positive. If she was only very briefly contagious at the very beginning (as would be common), she could have missed the contagious period with her testing and then he came down sick, and then if she only after a week tested PCR, that would be much more sensitive and could detect her while no longer contagious. That was the scenario I came up with where it would be very feasible. Is she symptomatic?

[Laura Corin]

10 hours ago, KSera said:

I've been thinking about this, too. I could see it if she was doing rapid antigen tests initially and then finally did a PCR test, and that's when she tested positive. If she was only very briefly contagious at the very beginning (as would be common), she could have missed the contagious period with her testing and then he came down sick, and then if she only after a week tested PCR, that would be much more sensitive and could detect her while no longer contagious. That was the scenario I came up with where it would be very feasible. Is she symptomatic?

I don't know. He says she is 'fine' but I don't know what that means - I don't want to hassle them with more questions. Eta - Sunday she's definitely symptomatic, feeling rotten. As far as I know, she was using lateral flow tests throughout, so no change in sensitivity.  

I've been dreading the possibility that my brother would go downhill again after ten days, in that common pattern.  I remembered in the middle of the night that he is constantly on blood thinners, which should give him some protection from some complications. 

@Not_a_Number we will also probably start doing much more when we have been boostered - whilst continuing to keep an eye on the epidemiology and any reports of boosters losing efficacy over time.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Laura Corin

[goldberry]

Yes, that is scary.  I'm to the point now where I almost wish I would get it just to get it over with. I know that's not safe or logical.  I'm being what I consider careful, masking while indoors (not outdoors, but not in crowded areas).  We love to go out to eat but are not doing it anywhere indoors. Double vaxxed and boostered.  Starting to see the same, too many people getting it anyway.  I feel like I'm ready to start going out to eat again!  But then REALLY scared about long Covid complications. : (

Editing to add:  I'll say it.  I'm really disappointed that the vaxxes aren't providing more protection.  I KNOW they are better than nothing and prevent serious illness in MOST cases.  I would still get vaccinated.  But I'm disappointed.

Edited November 14, 2021 by goldberry

[WildflowerMom]

Nvm. Not the right thread to fuss.  Sorry!

Edited November 15, 2021 by WildflowerMom

[KSera]

58 minutes ago, goldberry said:

Editing to add:  I'll say it.  I'm really disappointed that the vaxxes aren't providing more protection.  I KNOW they are better than nothing and prevent serious illness in MOST cases.  I would still get vaccinated.  But I'm disappointed.

I think if they hadn’t started out being miraculously effective, the decrease in effectiveness against Delta wouldn’t feel disappointing. They’re still working better than initially hoped, but the vaccines vs alpha were so good that it really looked like avoiding Covid permanently and quite possibly squashing the whole pandemic was completely possible. It’s hard to go from that to having to accept that getting Covid at some point and risking long Covid might be something we all have to live with. I’m super grateful that hospitalization is now a highly unlikely outcome for me, unless we have a worse mutation, but it’s disappointing to work so hard for so long to avoid getting it and then know that there’s not enough collective will for what could have been a reasonable goal to remain so 😞. And I can only imagine how much more so for those that can’t count on the vaccine to keep them out of the hospital. 

[Not_a_Number]

21 hours ago, KSera said:

I've been thinking about this, too. I could see it if she was doing rapid antigen tests initially and then finally did a PCR test, and that's when she tested positive. If she was only very briefly contagious at the very beginning (as would be common), she could have missed the contagious period with her testing and then he came down sick, and then if she only after a week tested PCR, that would be much more sensitive and could detect her while no longer contagious. That was the scenario I came up with where it would be very feasible. Is she symptomatic?

Hmmmmmm, yes, that COULD happen. I was also just thinking you wouldn't necessarily need that much viral load to infect a spouse, especially if they were susceptible to it for some reason. 

[ktgrok]

On 11/13/2021 at 5:07 PM, Laura Corin said:

One of my brothers has Covid. In the past month, he went into a shop, masked, for a few minutes on 26 October. Apart from that, his only contact has been playing tennis and golf outdoors - he didn't go inside the clubs at all.

I had assumed his wife brought it home from work. But she was testing negative for a week after he fell ill, only testing positive today.

He's doing okay now -  just exhausted. He's double jabbed but not yet boostered. 

I'm guessing he was near enough for one of them to sneeze or cough on him - even outdoors a direct sneeze or cough would carry enough viral load to infect someone. I think being outside protects during regular talking, etc, but a sneeze or cough changes things entirely. And of course, the wind direction matters too, being downwind for an hour while talking might be enough. 

Or maybe there is more surface transmision than we thought. 

[Laura Corin]

9 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I'm guessing he was near enough for one of them to sneeze or cough on him - even outdoors a direct sneeze or cough would carry enough viral load to infect someone. I think being outside protects during regular talking, etc, but a sneeze or cough changes things entirely. And of course, the wind direction matters too, being downwind for an hour while talking might be enough. 

Or maybe there is more surface transmision than we thought. 

None of the friends were symptomatic but they could still have coughed.

[ktgrok]

11 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

None of the friends were symptomatic but they could still have coughed.

Exactly - even a normal every day quick sneeze or what not, from dust or whatever, would be enough. 

[Laura Corin]

On 11/13/2021 at 10:07 PM, Laura Corin said:

One of my brothers has Covid. In the past month, he went into a shop, masked, for a few minutes on 26 October. Apart from that, his only contact has been playing tennis and golf outdoors - he didn't go inside the clubs at all.

I had assumed his wife brought it home from work. But she was testing negative for a week after he fell ill, only testing positive today.

He's doing okay now -  just exhausted. He's double jabbed but not yet boostered. 

He's not doing well a month later.  I read a letter he sent to my Mum - after writing two paragraphs he had to stop and rest. He's at home but just completely exhausted.  He wasn't hospitalised.  His wife is back at work.

[Faith-manor]

9 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

He's not doing well a month later.  I read a letter he sent to my Mum - after writing two paragraphs he had to stop and rest. He's at home but just completely exhausted.  He wasn't hospitalised.  His wife is back at work.

I am so sorry Laura! Hugs