s/o: premarital sex

[Sneezyone]

Just now, TexasProud said:

Not sure how old you are, but medical issues are just realistic. When your husband has daily migraines, he may not feel like it. 

Again, zI am happy for you. But if I had that expectation, I would be deeply unhappy. 

I am 45. Endured two years of pain before being able to have a hysterectomy stateside, and have been with DH for 25 years, married for 23. We've BTDT.

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

I am 45. Endured two years of pain before being able to have a hysterectomy stateside, and have been with DH for 25 years, married for 23. We've BTDT.

I am going to pm you.

[GracieJane]

I mean…people didn’t even know how women orgasm until the last century. The PR campaign for women‘s pleasure is new, to say the least. 😉

[bibiche]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

It's a lot less emotional upheaval than the alternative! (The most common post-abortion feeling is relief). 

Would-be father's don't get any input here; is that different in the States?

No, it’s the same in the US as far as I know. A rare instance where the male is actually more vulnerable. One reason I will definitely caution DS to discuss the issue with any possible partners.

[TexasProud]

5 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I am 45. Endured two years of pain before being able to have a hysterectomy stateside, and have been with DH for 25 years, married for 23. We've BTDT.

And you had orgasms 90 percent of the time during all of that????? You are superwoman.

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

And you had orgasms 90 percent of the time during all of that????? You are superwoman.

HA! Not superwoman. We abstained during the worst and he respected my "NOT TONIGHT!" It also took some time (TWO YEARS) post hysterectomy to regain my flexibility, for lack of a better term. We still prioritize mutual pleasure.

[Murphy101]

5 minutes ago, GracieJane said:

I mean…people didn’t even know how women orgasm until the last century. The PR campaign for women‘s pleasure is new, to say the least. 😉

Sure. But also what people? Obviously some people had at least a vague idea or they wouldn’t have gone investigating.  Mutual pleasure wasn’t an entirely alien concept either.

2 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

And you had orgasms 90 percent of the time during all of that????? You are superwoman.

Or not. I don’t think the ability to perform sexually makes anyone a superhero? I mean sure that’s fine but so what? That doesn’t mean it’s a requirement of all women and if they don’t then they must just be messed up in the head or have a sexually incompetent lover?  Such an all or nothing attitude is not one I’d recommend for a healthy relationship, sexual or otherwise, married or otherwise. 

[Sneezyone]

It's not a flipping performance! I don't put on sexy clothes and dance erotically for half an hour. Sheesh. I'm a middle aged, menopausal woman whose put on weight. It's definitely not my glorious figure and 'performances'. It's caring enough, talking enough, to know what each other likes/needs and giving that to the other. It's mutual gift-giving.

Why is it that lesbian women are so much more satisfied sexually than heterosexual women? Are women less capable of orgasm when the partner is male or is their pleasure less prioritized by their partner? Do they communicate less? Are they less honest? Real talk, why? It seems like the default in heterosexual culture is to presume 'frigidity' (hello 19th century) vs. problematic socialization.

No one, NO ONE, has said all or nothing. Heck, I'm not even a pre-marital sex proponent. I am  simply, however, a FEMALE SEXUAL PLEASURE proponent. Who knew that was so damned controversial?

[bibiche]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

It's not a flipping performance! I don't put on sexy clothes and dance erotically for half an hour. Sheesh. I'm a middle aged, menopausal woman whose put on weight. It's definitely not my glorious figure and 'performances'. It's caring enough, talking enough, to know what each other likes/needs and giving that to the other. It's mutual gift-giving.

Why is it that lesbian women are so much more satisfied sexually than heterosexual women? Are women less capable of orgasm when the partner is male or is their pleasure less prioritized by their partner? Do they communicate less? Are they less honest? Real talk, why? It seems like the default in heterosexual culture is to presume 'frigidity' (hello 19th century) vs. problematic socialization.

No one, NO ONE, has said all or nothing. Heck, I'm not even a pre-marital sex proponent. I am  simply, however, a FEMALE SEXUAL PLEASURE proponent. Who knew that was so damned controversial?

SRSLY. 🙄

[Murphy101]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

It's not a flipping performance! I don't put on sexy clothes and dance erotically for half an hour. Sheesh. I'm a middle aged, menopausal woman whose put on weight. It's definitely not my glorious figure and 'performances'. It's caring enough, talking enough, to know what each other likes/needs and giving that to the other. It's mutual gift-giving.

Why is it that lesbian women are so much more satisfied sexually than heterosexual women? Are women less capable of orgasm when the partner is male or is their pleasure less prioritized by their partner? Do they communicate less? Are they less honest? Real talk, why? It seems like the default in heterosexual culture is to presume 'frigidity' (hello 19th century) vs. problematic socialization.

No one, NO ONE, has said all or nothing. Heck, I'm not even a pre-marital sex proponent. I am  simply, however, a FEMALE SEXUAL PLEASURE proponent. Who knew that was so damned controversial?

No one except you seems to find it controversial. You are the one saying if he doesn’t satisfy you will leave. You are the one saying there’s a problem if a woman doesn’t o almost every time. Which yeah comes across as sexual partners damn well better serve an o or else.  (Which obviously reduces what should be mutual pleasure to just performance to many of us bc hey sometimes a person just isn’t going to o and that’s totally okay. ) You are the only claiming if it isn’t an o than it’s “grin and bear it”.

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

No one except you seems to find it controversial. You are the one saying if he doesn’t satisfy you will leave. You are the one saying there’s a problem if a woman doesn’t o almost every time. Which yeah comes across as sexual partners damn well better serve an o or else.  (Which obviously reduces what should be mutual pleasure to just performance to many of us bc hey sometimes a person just isn’t going to o and that’s totally okay. ) You are the only claiming if it isn’t an o than it’s “grin and bear it”.

Yeah, I NEVER said that. I said I would not begin, or in the initial stages of a relationship, I would not continue with someone who was unable to meet my needs. Yes, I think there is a problem if a woman doesn't regularly orgasm. It's not a situation/expectation men would EVER tolerate/accept. I don't think women should either. If you interpret that to mean "or else" that's on you. I interpret that to mean there's work that should be done societally. When only 40-50% of heterosexual women are regularly climaxing, I think that's a crying, damn, shame. Women deserve better. Their needs deserve more attention. Sex without orgasm *to me* is a chore.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Sneezyone

[bibiche]

1 minute ago, Murphy101 said:

No one except you seems to find it controversial. You are the one saying if he doesn’t satisfy you will leave. You are the one saying there’s a problem if a woman doesn’t o almost every time. Which yeah comes across as sexual partners damn well better serve an o or else.  (Which obviously reduces what should be mutual pleasure to just performance to many of us bc hey sometimes a person just isn’t going to o and that’s totally okay. ) You are the only claiming if it isn’t an o than it’s “grin and bear it”.

Oh, FFS. When did she say she would leave her husband if he didn’t satisfy her?! She didn’t. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman demanding a satisfying sexual life. 

[TexasProud]

7 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Yeah, I NEVER said that. I said I would not begin, or in the initial stages of a relationship, I would not continue with someone who was unable to meet my needs. Yes, I think there is a problem if a woman doesn't regularly orgasm. It's not a situation/expectation men would EVER tolerate/accept. I don't think women should either. If you interpret that to mean "or else" that's on you. I interpret that to mean there's work that should be done societally. When only 40-50% of heterosexual women are regularly climaxing, I think that's a crying, damn, shame. Women deserve better. Their needs deserve more attention. Sex without orgasm *to me* is a chore.

Um, you haven't been on many marriage boards with men talking about how their wives are gatekeepers and will not have sex with them.  I have listened to a TON who stay in these marriages because they don't believe in divorce. It isn't just women. 

[TexasProud]

5 minutes ago, bibiche said:

Oh, FFS. When did she say she would leave her husband if he didn’t satisfy her?! She didn’t. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman demanding a satisfying sexual life. 

Yeah, I think it was you. You left the guy with the tiny p..., right?  You would have counseled my husband to leave me because I couldn't satisfy him the first time.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, TexasProud said:

Um, you haven't been on many marriage boards with men talking about how their wives are gatekeepers and will not have sex with them.  I have listened to a TON who stay in these marriages because they don't believe in divorce. It isn't just women. 

That's more about frequency than orgasm tho. Obviously, frequency is an issue for some couples but that's not the one I've been harping on.

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

Yeah, I think it was you. You left the guy with the tiny p..., right?  You would have counseled my husband to leave me because I couldn't satisfy him the first time.

*I* openly, admittedly, and PROUDLY, ditched the guy with the tiny pecker. No regrets. I wouldn't have counseled your DH to leave you tho.

[Not_a_Number]

11 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

It's not a situation/expectation men would EVER tolerate/accept.

Actually, I had a boyfriend who had a weird relationship with orgasms... he didn't like them much for some weird sensory reason. 

He was quite strange in many ways. But just saying 😉 . 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

*I* openly, admittedly, and PROUDLY, ditched the guy with the tiny pecker. No regrets. I wouldn't have counseled your DH to leave you tho.

There's a big difference between something physical that obviously can't be fixed and an awkward first experience -- those don't seem analogous. 

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

There's a big difference between something physical that obviously can't be fixed and an awkward first experience -- those don't seem analogous. 

BWAAAHAAA! MY DH asked me if I was feeling OK because I never pay him compliments like this. I told him he was like our kids...praise to outsiders...motivate and keep anxiety-ridden in private. He gave me a ROFL emoji.

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

How much of that impact is from cultural expectations around expressing guilt/sorrow, though? 

I mean, who is going to get 'forgiven' for their transgression more readily - the woman who says 'thank goodness that's done, I feel so relieved!' or the one who expresses a willingness to engage in self-punishing emotions? 

Anyway, this is a s/o topic. Plenty of abortions taking place within marriage. It's not confined to pre-marital sex. 

Well, the women that have literally sobbed on my shoulder were not doing it to elicit forgiveness. None was needed. And they were not from cultures/familes where abortion was a big sin. They just regretted having to end a pregnancy due to circumstances. I don't think that is abnormal. 

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

For me, anything short of completion is 'grin and bear it' lol. Where's my reward? I mentioned this thread to DH and he just sent me laughing emojis. This does not compute for us.

Plenty of people, men and women, deal with this on a regular basis for at least a time period of their lives. Many would NOT wish to just not have sex if it isn't 100 percent known to come with an orgasm. 

And if there is an issue, it is not the partners fault, short of him/her refusing to try to help. Many people, men and women both, are on medicatios, or have hormonal issues, blood pressure issues, etc etc that limit sexual ability or ability to climax. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have sex. Or that the other person isn't doing a good enough job. To say that the reason a percentage of women are not climaxing is because their men are not caring about them,or too small, is not truth.

26 minutes ago, bibiche said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman demanding a satisfying sexual life. 

If my man tried to DEMAND sexual satisfaction from me, THAT I might leave over!

 

[Sneezyone]

9 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Well, the women that have literally sobbed on my shoulder were not doing it to elicit forgiveness. None was needed. And they were not from cultures/familes where abortion was a big sin. They just regretted having to end a pregnancy due to circumstances. I don't think that is abnormal. 

Plenty of people, men and women, deal with this on a regular basis for at least a time period of their lives. Many would NOT wish to just not have sex if it isn't 100 percent known to come with an orgasm. 

And if there is an issue, it is not the partners fault, short of him/her refusing to try to help. Many people, men and women both, are on medications, or have hormonal issues, blood pressure issues, etc etc that limit sexual ability or ability to climax. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have sex. Or that the other person isn't doing a good enough job. To say that the reason a percentage of women are not climaxing is because their men are not caring about them,or too small, is not truth.

If my man tried to DEMAND sexual satisfaction from me, THAT I might leave over!

 

Yes, well, since I NEVER said the bolded, not an issue. What I said was, there's a PROBLEM and that would include "hormonal issues, blood pressure issues, etc etc that limit sexual ability or ability to climax". 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Sneezyone

[bibiche]

6 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

 

If my man tried to DEMAND sexual satisfaction from me, THAT I might leave over!

 

The difference is that men almost always achieve orgasm/sexual satisfaction whereas women do only 50-70% of the time. Equal rights! 

[Sneezyone]

14 minutes ago, bibiche said:

The difference is that men almost always achieve orgasm/sexual satisfaction whereas women do only 50-70% of the time. Equal rights! 

When I looked it up, specifically for heterosexual women, it was even less but different surveys, I guess. I was seriously shocked, like, horrified. Maybe this is normal but it's definitely not necessary. I had no idea the percentage was so low. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjM38bZmILyAhUEElkFHQ-9ACoQFjABegQIBxAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fhealth-39077293&usg=AOvVaw3rOP6DX_VM9VNp61adfI6o

Edited July 27, 2021 by Sneezyone

[kbutton]

On 7/25/2021 at 9:08 PM, Ottakee said:

This Book...The Great S+x Rescue looks to be very good and helpful for those struggling.

She also has a blog: https://tolovehonorandvacuum.com/  I haven't read the book, but her website has a lot of teasers for the book, which is full of research on this topic. 

This is not her only book either...https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0310334098/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=777065-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=0310334098  I haven't read it either. 

I am new to her material, in general. 

17 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

When I looked it up, specifically for heterosexual women, it was even less but different surveys, I guess. I was seriously shocked, like, horrified. Maybe this is normal but it's definitely not necessary. I had no idea the percentage was so low. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjM38bZmILyAhUEElkFHQ-9ACoQFjABegQIBxAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fhealth-39077293&usg=AOvVaw3rOP6DX_VM9VNp61adfI6o

https://tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2021/03/all-about-orgasms-podcast/ 

For those who are wondering, she's a conservative Christian who would advocate abstinence before marriage, and she thinks women's pleasure deserves attention and that these stats are a travesty. 

[Lecka]

4 hours ago, Clarita said:

That's my opinion and definitely jealous of my husband's 100% celibacy coming into our relationship. I also realize my view comes from personal experiences which may be unusual. But it's the experience that my mother and I had so I'll probably tell my daughter this too. 

It is just heartbreaking to me.  My sister feels like she was emotionally numbed or distant because of having bad experiences, and I would never want that to happen to my  kids.  

I am aware it is something that is a real thing that happens to some people.  

 

 

[KSera]

7 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Both the way sex is assumed to be tied to marriage (pre-marital) and the idea of 'waiting' as something secular people might routinely do. 

It's clearly a cultural preference shaped by religiously- oriented norms. 

 

It tends now to go along with religious beliefs, but prior to birth control, it made sense even without religious beliefs. There are good reasons for the norm, even if some of those reasons have been largely overcome with modern medicine (and even though many of those who “believe” in the idea don’t adhere to it). 

5 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Would-be father's don't get any input here; is that different in the States?

No, and that also colors my opinion. A dear family member had that happen as the father, with a baby he very much wanted. He never totally got over it (never had the opportunity to have any other children, either—very heartbreaking). 

[Melissa Louise]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277953619306999?via%3Dihub

On relief vs regret.

 

[LucyStoner]

Due to a convergence of circumstances, neither my husband or I had had sex prior to our marriage.  We didn’t have that as a religious conviction.  My husband was a bit of a late bloomer and we married young so while he dated before, he’d not had sex.  I was a SA survivor and while I had dated some, I didn’t really feel a huge degree of sexual attraction to anyone before I met my now husband.  And certainly not enough attraction to feel like anyone was worth the hassle.  

Re: compatibility.  I do think it’s possible to know that you are with someone who you can be compatible with prior to having sex.  My husband and I couldn’t have intercourse for a number of months after we married due to my having vaginismus (not an infection- a muscle spasm). Mine was likely tied to SA.  We both trusted that once that issue was resolved, we would be compatible and that was in fact the case.   I guess we got lucky but we both knew early on in our relationship that we were in it for the long haul and that the other person was committed to the other.  

[TexasProud]

6 hours ago, kbutton said:

She also has a blog: https://tolovehonorandvacuum.com/  I haven't read the book, but her website has a lot of teasers for the book, which is full of research on this topic. 

This is not her only book either...https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0310334098/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=777065-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=0310334098  I haven't read it either. 

I am new to her material, in general. 

https://tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2021/03/all-about-orgasms-podcast/ 

For those who are wondering, she's a conservative Christian who would advocate abstinence before marriage, and she thinks women's pleasure deserves attention and that these stats are a travesty. 

Yes, i have all of her books. But I have to say that, don't get me wrong, women have every right to pleasure, not saying that. But why on earth is an orgasm the end all be all and yardstick of fabulous sex? People are shocked and horrified, but what if it has nothing to do with conditioning. As I said, my parents were not religious. I didn't have any purity brainwashing. All that crap started when my children were growing up. But I guess I just wonder if we miss the point of sex in all of the drive to have absolutely mind blowing experiences, new experiences all the time. There is such a thing as just wanting comfort and that not being a second rate experience. It is ok. I don't want to be a sexual dynamo. I just want to be me, which means hot and heavy sometimes and not, sometimes. And that should be ok. It just should. Ok, I need to leave the thread because you guys are making me feel like I am broken and just terrible for not wanting a mind blowing O every single time. I am not broken. I am me. Please do not pity me.

[Melissa in Australia]

I am right with you Texasproud.

 mostly I just want the closeness

[Guest]

On 7/25/2021 at 7:50 AM, kiwik said:

I think you need to know if you are sexually compatible in your level of sex drive.  If one partner wants sex constantly and the other thinks once a month is enough it will not make for a happy marriage.  Also it is possible to be attracted to someone you don't like and not attracted to someone you love.

I don’t because that changes anyway. Sex drive is not static; it changes over time, based on hormones, medications, general health, psychological factors and a bunch of other things. 

[Guest]

On 7/25/2021 at 1:43 PM, Scarlett said:

I don’t talk  about my sex life.  Not even to my best friend.  And we are very very close.  She recently revealed something to me and prefaced it with this is tmi….and it was…but it was relevant to some issues they were having and she was confiding in me about their marital problems, most of it unrelated to sex, but as you know sometimes it all ties it.  
 

I mean we share vague stories….like the times our kids walk in on us, or maybe the frequency of which one of us or our husbands want tEa. But we just don’t discuss specifics.  

Same. I don’t think it’s a forbidden topic, and I suppose I would talk about it if it were relevant to an important conversation, but in general, I dont and I don’t enjoy friends sharing information about theirs, if it isn’t relevant to the conversation. 

I remember one time a friend telling me about her husband walking in on her having fun all by herself and I was just really wondering why she was sharing this story with me. I have a great imagination and I don’t need that visual! 

[Sneezyone]

Orgasm doesn’t preclude or exclude comfort and closeness. It’s not either/or. IJS.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Sneezyone

[TexasProud]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Orgasm doesn’t preclude or exclude comfort and closeness. It’s not either/or. IJS.

True. But sometimes I don’t want that level of engagement and excitement. 

[Katy]

The historical answer for discovering in the honeymoon that a man “Could not fulfill his marital duty,” was annulment.  I could be wrong but I don’t think anyone had to provide details as to why.  Orgasms may not have been a right, but having the opportunity to conceive was. 

That’s not at all the same as losing the ability at a later age because of health reasons.

And even if you think you’re falling for someone, discovering a 20 year old is impotent or has a micropenis has a way of dampening that feeling. You immediately wonder what else they lied about and trust is destroyed. I for one am glad I discovered before I had to whisper to everyone “annulment.”  That would be far worse IMO. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

I don’t because that changes anyway. Sex drive is not static; it changes over time, based on hormones, medications, general health, psychological factors and a bunch of other things. 

It's true that it changes, but I also think there's something real there. I do think having a basic mismatch about this early on can cause problems. 

Although perhaps "willingness to work with the other person" is more important than anything else... 

[ktgrok]

10 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Yes, well, since I NEVER said the bolded, not an issue. What I said was, there's a PROBLEM and that would include "hormonal issues, blood pressure issues, etc etc that limit sexual ability or ability to climax". 

It was said early on in this thread that maybe the reason so many women don't achieve climax is they married a man unable to satisfy them. I don't know who said it, but it was said. 

10 hours ago, bibiche said:

The difference is that men almost always achieve orgasm/sexual satisfaction whereas women do only 50-70% of the time. Equal rights! 

I don't think this is actually true. I think men are way less likely to report not being able to function sexually the way they want to. A LOT of men are on antidepressants, blood pressure medication, etc which can seriously hinder or entirely prevent orgasm. 

Also, if they are unable to climax they are more likely, out of shame, not have sex at all. So according to a survey would usually climax during sex... avoiding sex entirely when they can't climax doesn't mean that they are sexually healthier or more satisfied than a woman with the same problem who does have sex. 

10 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

When I looked it up, specifically for heterosexual women, it was even less but different surveys, I guess. I was seriously shocked, like, horrified. Maybe this is normal but it's definitely not necessary. I had no idea the percentage was so low. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjM38bZmILyAhUEElkFHQ-9ACoQFjABegQIBxAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fhealth-39077293&usg=AOvVaw3rOP6DX_VM9VNp61adfI6o

Again, a LOT of women are on meds that make climax impossible or difficult. That doesn't mean that they are not prioritizing their own satisfaction, or that their partner is not trying. 

I find it interesting that in that survey, the things that correlate to more orgasms have NOTHING to do with penis size. And many of them were about the woman's actions (asking for what she wants, etc) vs their partner. Kind of goes against the idea that the problem is women choosing men who can't manage to pleasure them. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by ktgrok

[ktgrok]

And for the record something like impotence, a birth defect that effects the marriage bed, known infertility, etc are things that should be revealed before marriage, in my opinion. 

And I have had some experience with a man with what was probably what would be termed a micropenis. (I remember being very grateful I didn't actually SAY what I was thinking, which was, "Is that it?")  We did not have intercourse, but he did satisfy me just fine. 

[hjffkj]

I have to thank you all for contributing to a very interesting conversation.with dh last night. I was telling him about this thread and the conversation between us that followed was a really good one.

@Sneezyone I'm right there with you in regards to the importance of an orgasm most of the time, ideally 100% but reality is closer to 95%. I suppose that missing 5% is strictly when my head isn't in the game. I can't say that I based my relationship decisions around it though, but that may have been because when I first became sexually active I didn't fully appreciate the importance of an orgasm.

If dh was all of a sudden selfish in bed, not if I couldn't orgasm because of some other issue, it would be a HUGE issue and likely a deal breaker if he weren't willing/able to become less selfish. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

It's true that it changes, but I also think there's something real there. I do think having a basic mismatch about this early on can cause problems. 

Although perhaps "willingness to work with the other person" is more important than anything else... 

I think being an accommodating person serves people well in every area of life and it’s bound to improve sexual relations as well; let’s make sure everybody is satisfied with this endeavor. 
 

Having said that, having a good sexual matchup when you’re 23 offers no guarantees how that will play out for the future. That was my main point. I don’t think ensuring compatible drives is a reason to have sex before marriage. However, I am not opposed to consenting adults having sex before marriage. It has never been a hope of mine that my adult children would be virgins when they marry. I would only support that plan if they drew that conclusion on their own.

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

 

If dh was all of a sudden selfish in bed, not if I couldn't orgasm because of some other issue, it would be a HUGE issue and likely a deal breaker if he weren't willing/able to become less selfish. 

Oh, that would be a huge problem for me too. But I have a hard time imagining that a person who is selfish in bed isn't selfish in other ways too. It's a personality problem, not a sexual compatibility problem. 

As that survey linked showed, the things that are related to women's orgasm are all either in her control, or things a partner can change to do better. None were innate compatibility problems. 

[Sneezyone]

13 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

I have to thank you all for contributing to a very interesting conversation.with dh last night. I was telling him about this thread and the conversation between us that followed was a really good one.

@Sneezyone I'm right there with you in regards to the importance of an orgasm most of the time, ideally 100% but reality is closer to 95%. I suppose that missing 5% is strictly when my head isn't in the game. I can't say that I based my relationship decisions around it though, but that may have been because when I first became sexually active I didn't fully appreciate the importance of an orgasm.

If dh was all of a sudden selfish in bed, not if I couldn't orgasm because of some other issue, it would be a HUGE issue and likely a deal breaker if he weren't willing/able to become less selfish. 

This is where my head's at. I, quite frankly, got lucky with my partner early on and never learned that I wasn't supposed to desire or expect an orgasm. No one who *should* have had those conversations with me ever did, part pure dumb luck and a lot of subsequent girl talk. 

[Sneezyone]

31 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

It was said early on in this thread that maybe the reason so many women don't achieve climax is they married a man unable to satisfy them. I don't know who said it, but it was said. 

I don't think this is actually true. I think men are way less likely to report not being able to function sexually the way they want to. A LOT of men are on antidepressants, blood pressure medication, etc which can seriously hinder or entirely prevent orgasm. 

Also, if they are unable to climax they are more likely, out of shame, not have sex at all. So according to a survey would usually climax during sex... avoiding sex entirely when they can't climax doesn't mean that they are sexually healthier or more satisfied than a woman with the same problem who does have sex. 

Again, a LOT of women are on meds that make climax impossible or difficult. That doesn't mean that they are not prioritizing their own satisfaction, or that their partner is not trying. 

I find it interesting that in that survey, the things that correlate to more orgasms have NOTHING to do with penis size. And many of them were about the woman's actions (asking for what she wants, etc) vs their partner. Kind of goes against the idea that the problem is women choosing men who can't manage to pleasure them. 

Are these meds only distributed to heterosexual and bi women?

[hjffkj]

17 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Oh, that would be a huge problem for me too. But I have a hard time imagining that a person who is selfish in bed isn't selfish in other ways too. It's a personality problem, not a sexual compatibility problem. 

As that survey linked showed, the things that are related to women's orgasm are all either in her control, or things a partner can change to do better. None were innate compatibility problems. 

I disagree that it is always a personality problem. Not sure if it is a personality problem the majority of the time though. Disclaimer here, I am very open about sexual talk and have had many friends who are open about it. From my experience, it is also due to a  combination of inexperience and lack of communication as to if both people are satisfied

[hjffkj]

In terms of meds that make it hard to orgasm, I'm pretty sure dh would not be seeking sex if he knew he couldn't get me off. He just wouldn't be into that. Or the poor man would try until some appendage of his fell off 😂

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, hjffkj said:

In terms of meds that make it hard to orgasm, I'm pretty sure dh would not be seeking sex if he knew he couldn't get me off. He just wouldn't be into that. Or the poor man would try until some appendage of his fell off 😂

Definitely yes to the bolded. I don’t think most partners are selfish. I srsly think a lot of women with male partners are just not honest about what they’re actually feeling (or not feeling). I think folks have this impression of wild, vigorous flip fests when you say orgasm but that’s not it at all, at least not all the time. Lol. Quiet, comfortable, intimate moments also end in orgasm.

[marbel]

re: achieving "the big o" 70%, 90%, 99.5% of the time...

When I talk about people here, I could mean myself, women who have personally confided in me, or it could be based on articles/books I've read on the topic. I'm not a scholar on the subject but as a human person I am interested. 

There are lots of reasons people might not climax all the time. There are lots of factors that go into it, particularly for women. It may be that achieving it may take more time/effort/energy than a person really wants to expend at the time. A person may sometimes wish to please their partner without reciprocity and that is legitimate. It is not necessarily, for every person, a path to frustration.; it can be satisfying in a different way. Harping on women's rights to satisfaction may put pressure on people who do not particularly feel unsatisfied if they don't climax every time. 

Note that I'm not saying "just give in to it, grin and bear it, and fake it till it's over." And I would never give "permission" to one person to demand satisfaction for him/herself whenever it's desired regardless of the other person's feelings. Nor would I say that people should not convey their desires to their partner. I'm saying, sometimes, some people are willing to set aside a specific pleasure for a time, putting another person first. I'm sure someone will say I've been "conditioned" to think that way. But there is equal conditioning out there that it has to be great all (or 95%?) of the time. So people can feel pressured to perform, as someone upthread said.  And feeling pressured just takes all the fun out of everything, doesn't it?  Maybe 70% of the time, it's so good, that the 30% of the time there's no climax isn't a problem. 

[ktgrok]

39 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

This is where my head's at. I, quite frankly, got lucky with my partner early on and never learned that I wasn't supposed to desire or expect an orgasm. No one who *should* have had those conversations with me ever did, part pure dumb luck and a lot of subsequent girl talk. 

Huh? No one is saying women shouldn't desire an orgasm or expect one. Just that sometimes, for women and men, what those expectations do not match reality. 

26 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

In terms of meds that make it hard to orgasm, I'm pretty sure dh would not be seeking sex if he knew he couldn't get me off. He just wouldn't be into that. Or the poor man would try until some appendage of his fell off 😂

In our case it was my husband that couldn't, due to medication. But he still tried, lol...knowing it likely wouldn't happen, because the act itself is still enjoyable and the closeness it brings. And because he was glad to give ME a climax. 

20 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Definitely yes to the bolded. I don’t think most partners are selfish. I srsly think a lot of women with male partners are just not honest about what they’re actually feeling (or not feeling). I think folks have this impression of wild, vigorous flip fests when you say orgasm but that’s not it at all, at least not all the time. Lol. Quiet, comfortable, intimate moments also end in orgasm.

But that's not a problem with their partner, that's on them. And having a different partner wouldn't change things. Again, not about compatibility, not really. 

[hjffkj]

Ok here is a question for people that may be tmi but do your spouses know when you don't have an orgasm or do you fake it? I know A LOT of women who fake it and I've never understood why

 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, hjffkj said:

Ok here is a question for people that may be tmi but do your spouses know when you don't have an orgasm or do you fake it? I know A LOT of women who fake it and I've never understood why

 

I don’t fake and never have. I’m a terrible liar in general, lol.