s/o: premarital sex

[bibiche]

You know we needed one. 🤪

We probably need a poll too, but I’m too lazy to make one.

Personally, I think premarital sex is kind of essential. I mean, what happens if you wait until the wedding night only to discover your mate and you are not well suited? I’m sorry, but compatibility is a pretty big deal. I will strongly encourage my children to try it before they buy it. Thoughts?

[J-rap]

How do you define well-suited?

[Excelsior! Academy]

I am a Christian and believe that s@x should be saved for marriage.  Before I was a Christian I felt the same way. If both persons wait, not only would they not know they weren't suited for one another, but they also would learn about s@x together.  Not having anyone to compare to, and not having the emotional baggage that comes with previous relationships seems like a plus to me.  

Edited July 25, 2021 by Excelsior! Academy

[Danae]

I can think of few things that would make me less interested in having sex with someone than knowing I was auditioning for the part. 

[bibiche]

9 minutes ago, J-rap said:

How do you define well-suited?

Gosh. Um. Jeepers. What if she’s a size queen and he’s an xxxsmall? I dunno. There are so many ways people can be incompatible. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Having left a religion in which many, many couples come to the marriage “pure”, I completely agree. I have seen a lot of issues really damage and affect marriages that could have been avoided if sexuality wasn’t wrapped in toxic purity culture.

There is so much anxiety wrapped around marital intimacy that vaginismus and other physical dysfunction is more highly present in certain communities (generally those with purity standards). 

One of the more interesting dinner conversations I’ve had is when a bunch of us lawyers sat and talked with ob-gyns and sex therapists over dinner. We were all just friends, but if you think everything is just fine in the bedroom and folks just figure it out….some do, but many don’t.

 

 

 

[J-rap]

1 minute ago, bibiche said:

Gosh. Um. Jeepers. What if she’s a size queen and he’s an xxxsmall? I dunno. There are so many ways people can be incompatible. 

🤣  I assume they'd be discussing this ahead of time?

[gardenmom5]

I happen to think there is a lot more to compatibility in a relationship.  E.g. commitment for starters, and extra marital relations  has zero indicators for that.

It didn't improve the relationships of my family members that did.  Of four couples,  only one didn't end up divorced.   (And they fought a lot.  And seriously talked about divorce.)

 

[prairiewindmomma]

Compatibility is usually less about size and more about interest, preferences, and communication. 

[MercyA]

We waited until our wedding night. Six years of dating, including several years living in the same secular public university dorm. Opportunities were not lacking, but we waited because it was important to us. 

I'm not sure what the problem would be. If you love each other and are attracted to each other and communicate well, you figure things out. 🙂 Not having any previous baggage is huge as well. 

No complaints here and we're coming up on 25 years. 🙂

**Don't quote please***

[J-rap]

1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Having left a religion in which many, many couples come to the marriage “pure”, I completely agree. I have seen a lot of issues really damage and affect marriages that could have been avoided if sexuality wasn’t wrapped in toxic purity culture.

There is so much anxiety wrapped around marital intimacy that vaginismus and other physical dysfunction is more highly present in certain communities (generally those with purity standards). 

One of the more interesting dinner conversations I’ve had is when a bunch of us lawyers sat and talked with ob-gyns and sex therapists over dinner. We were all just friends, but if you think everything is just fine in the bedroom and folks just figure it out….some do, but many don’t.

 

 

 

There's a big difference between the toxic purity culture (which I do agree is toxic) and learning intimacy together as a committed couple.

[prairiewindmomma]

Fwiw, dh and I had not so much as French kissed before we married….I still hold to my position that I will encourage my children to explore their own sexuality and to do so with a partner before marriage.

[Murphy101]

Oh just never mind. 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Murphy101

[J-rap]

For me, the mind connection was so vastly more important than sex, that thinking we had to test out the sex part ahead of time to make sure we were compatible was a non-issue.   But, it also makes for an interesting and fun thing to figure out together once that commitment was made.

[bibiche]

18 minutes ago, Excelsior! Academy said:

I am a Christian and believe that s@x should be saved for marriage.  Before I was a Christian I felt the same way. If both persons wait, not only would they not know they weren't suited for one another, but they also would learn about s@x together.  Not having anyone to compare to, and not having the emotional baggage that comes with previous relationships seems like a plus to me.  

I know it isn’t necessarily nice, but this makes me so sad and depressed. 

[Moonhawk]

I mean, the "freedom" to have premarital sex without fear of conception and without medications/preventative measures for STDs is fairly new, so Idk why it seems like "such a loss" to not partake, when the mores were in place for a reason and a lot of generations seemed to cope. Yes there's always many (many) that chose not to follow the expectations of the day, which we love to romanticize, but I don't see it as an actual advantage. 

For every argument like, "How will you know you're compatible?" you can reply with, "How do you know you're not using sex to paper over incompatibility in other areas?" Premarital sex does not necessarily prevent mismatches, and may prolong some. 

Some couples do rush into marriage because they really want the forbidden fruit and don't look at the longterm commitment, the adage of "Marry in haste and repent at leisure" so obviously there can be drawbacks. But too-quick marriages even happen with people ok with premarital sex so... ? 

Basically, if you are raised with the same values and have similar interests, etc., it's not necessarily necessary to test out, though you can have frank conversations about what type of sex drives/outlooks you and your partner assume will happen. Premarital sex, if it's in the "values" of the couple, may not hurt them, but it *not* being in the values of the couple doesn't doom them to sexual frustration any more or less longterm than their test-driving counterparts.

eta: Toxic purity culture is a huge other topic that I think is a much bigger culprit responsible for poor expectations/fulfillment post-marriage than actual waiting until marriage.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Moonhawk

[Lawyer&Mom]

I was sexually active for about a decade before I met my husband.  I think the importance of being sexually compatible with your life partner is somewhat overrated.  Great sex in my experience isn’t much correlated with being great relationship material.  That said, I’m glad I’ve had the experience I had before I got married.  I’ve been there and done that, got the t-shirt, I’m not worried about sexual temptation interrupting my marriage going forward. 

[Tanaqui]

Quote

Not having anyone to compare to, and not having the emotional baggage that comes with previous relationships seems like a plus to me.  

You're gonna get emotional baggage even without sex, unless your plan is for an arranged marriage.

As for sex - I mean, if I just stuck with the first plumber I ever hired I might not know he's no good either, but is that really a good way to handle my pipes?

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, Excelsior! Academy said:

I am a Christian and believe that s@x should be saved for marriage.  Before I was a Christian I felt the same way. If both persons wait, not only would they not know they weren't suited for one another, but they also would learn about s@x together.  Not having anyone to compare to, and not having the emotional baggage that comes with previous relationships seems like a plus to me.  

I am my husband's second wife. His first wife left him for another man. Your image of preparing for our marriage would not have been relevant to us.

We slept together for four years before marriage and have now been together for 33 years.

[Tap]

I don't care if my kids have premarital sex or not. That is thier own choice and I wouldn't try to sway them either way.

Premarital sex doesn't ensure compatibility. DH and I were absolutely not compatible  in this area and we had sex prior to marriage. 

[Wishes]

Well, since gay marriage was a long time coming that wouldn’t have worked for much of our community.

I wouldn’t worry too much about my children having premarital sex with their respective partners as long as they understood that there’s a certain vulnerability to sex in general. Females who engage with males often have the possibility of becoming pregnant. All variations of partners have the possibility of sexually transmitted diseases. And in many cases, there is emotional vulnerability. I’d worry about  my kids choosing a partner that doesn’t value them and weaponizes sex in some way.

[TexasProud]

5 hours ago, bibiche said:

I know it isn’t necessarily nice, but this makes me so sad and depressed. 

Why on earth does that make you sad????

My husband and I have only had it with each other. I have never had to worry about disease. I have not missed out.  S’x takes practice. You talk and you figure it out. If you communicate well about other things, than this is no different. Plus, as I mentioned in my other post, sec means a possibility of pregnancy. My husband is tge only one I trust that much. I have never been tempted by anyone ekse and don’t really get affairs.  I cannot imagine this overwhelming attraction to someone other than my husband.  He is the only trustworthy person for me. 

[Carrie12345]

I think what grown people do or don’t and with whom or not on this topic is their business, which I have no business judging.  

 

[Pawz4me]

27 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I think what grown people do or don’t and with whom or not on this topic is their business, which I have no business judging.  

 

Yeah, I'm with you. I'm agnostic on the matter. I don't think that one way is right and the other is wrong. I can see pros/cons of each and it's not my place to decide what's right for anyone else. As long as only consenting adults are involved, of course.

[Soror]

30 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I think what grown people do or don’t and with whom or not on this topic is their business, which I have no business judging.  

 

I agree with this. It is not as if the only 2 options are toxic purity culture and premarital sex. No need to go from one rule to another, there are many ways people can make a happy marriage. I don't understand the desire to not only say you don't like the choices of others but to say that means they must also always be wrong. I had s*x before marriage. I didn't find any of it to be worthwhile or needed for success in my current marriage. S*x with dh is good because we have a good marriage. I trust and love him. We communicate our wants and needs.  I wish I wouldn't have wasted my time and energy on the other jack hats. My kids can make their own choices, their life and experiences will be their own.

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

It'd be a bit hypocritical to comment since Daughter knows her father and I were never married.

I've told her about stages of pair bonding and that anyone who tries to pressure her to rush through them is either a predator or not brought up well enough, and no matter which it is, it won't be worth it.

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

I think what grown people do or don’t and with whom or not on this topic is their business, which I have no business judging.  

 

I agree.

The OP said that premarital s’x was essential.  I completely disagree. That is all. I honestly don’t think about it other than my own kids. And they haven’t done much so it hasn’t been an issue. Just don’t want STD or pregnancy to derail their life goals.  But if it does, it is their life and their choices. not all if my choices were perfect either. 😀

[kiwik]

I think you need to know if you are sexually compatible in your level of sex drive.  If one partner wants sex constantly and the other thinks once a month is enough it will not make for a happy marriage.  Also it is possible to be attracted to someone you don't like and not attracted to someone you love.

[marbel]

10 minutes ago, kiwik said:

I think you need to know if you are sexually compatible in your level of sex drive.  If one partner wants sex constantly and the other thinks once a month is enough it will not make for a happy marriage.  Also it is possible to be attracted to someone you don't like and not attracted to someone you love.

<shrug> That doesn't always show up right away. I didn't realize my first husband and I were seriously mismatched in that way till we had been married for about a year, despite intimacy beforehand.  Also people change over time, so someone who was an eager partner may become less so over time or vice versa. 

Just my own observation, but the most happily married couples I know are those who saved intimacy for marriage.  They knew they loved each other and were attracted to each other before marriage. They learned together, just as they learned to be a couple in other ways, such as learning to be parents, learning how to be partners living together/maintaining a home, etc. 

I don't love the notion of young people getting married before they are ready just so they can have sex; I think that is also a problem. Perhaps that is where purity culture comes into the discussion.

Edited July 25, 2021 by marbel

[Melissa Louise]

I've got no feelings about it one way or another. Have pre-marital sex, don't have pre-marital sex...it's pretty much irrelevant to me. 

[bibiche]

2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Why on earth does that make you sad????

Sorry, I was thinking of my previous self and what a bummer that would have been for me if I’d only experienced one particular relationship.

[hjffkj]

I have no idea what is best since it is impossible to experience both having sex before marriage and waiting. But I do know that my experiences with sex prior to being with dh, not prior to marriage, were all unhealthy, except with one other person.  I do believe deeply that teenagers should not be having sex because the chances that their maturity level is high enough for all the baggage that comes with sex is small. 

As far as incompatibility, I think most of the time a couple willing to work together can likely get through those issues together. 

[Katy]

I know more than one devout Christian woman who didn’t know her husband was so addicted to porn he was incapable of a normal sex life. That’s why it was so easy to wait until the wedding to marry.  In both cases they were cheating with prostitutes but couldn’t be with the same woman twice. I suspect this is extremely common in purity culture. 

[Wheres Toto]

I definitely feel communication is probably the most important factor, but of the people I know who waited, talking about sex was also very taboo.    At least one couple I know who waited have been married a pretty long time (I think they just hit 30 years) but it definitely has not been a happy marriage and there hasn't been marital relations of any kind in 29 years.   It's been more dependence and guilt keeping them together and one part of the couple has had one foot out the door for about 20 years. 

I do think an emphasis on waiting, especially when tied to attempting restrictions on masturbation, can lead to jumping into marriage with the wrong person or too quickly.  

[Jaybee]

Well, we waited, and then had good communication (as well as some helpful books). We've been married 39 years, and it's been good. Because we weren't "experienced," it took a little time to learn each other. If we hadn't been married, I don't think the learning experience would have been too helpful, because learning under the fear of being caught (or any number of other issues, like having someone committed to me), is not the same as learning with someone who has decided to spend his life with you and commit to you. I'm glad we didn't write each other off based on our first experience together. Or maybe you are considering a long-term sexual relationship before marriage in a different context than we had. But I'm glad we waited. I'm glad we weren't being compared to others. Through the years, sometimes we have been more compatible than others. But we've always loved each other and been committed to one another.

[Soror]

Amazed at how much you guys know about your friend's sex lives (before and after marriage). I'm not certain anyone I know was a virgin before marriage. I would guess 1 couple was but couldn't say for sure. I'd guess most weren't. I think there are many more reasons a couple is likely to succeed or fail than whether or not they have sex before marriage.

[Roadrunner]

I don’t really care what my kids do once they are adults. Not my business. 

I came from a purity culture (purity just for women). Not a fan personally. 

[DawnM]

We waited until marriage.   Never once did I think, "Oh, his p*nis may be too small, I don't think I can live with that."   

S*x is one small part of a relationship.   The overall relationship is so much more.   so much.

The person should be someone you would stay with even if that person could no longer even have s*x.   

How many p*nises do you need to "try before you buy" before you say, "yuck, yours has been in 30 v*g*n*s and I don't want to be 31 just to see if it fits right?"

Sorry to be so crass, but this conversation is IMO, ridiculous.

[Murphy101]

I would agree sex is not the determining factor in marriage success.

I would agree purity culture is bs and toxic to healthy relationships regardless of marriage. 

I tell my kids that no matter what age they are, no birth control is 100% at preventing pregnancy or STDs. I explain that those high prevention numbers on the packages are based on “perfect use” rates but none of them are perfect.  And if they get pregnant, married or not, they are connected to that sexual partner for a lifetime.  Caution about that activity is just smart regardless of religious views IMO.

I tel them that sex within commitment and trust and open communication (things one should have in marriage) can be awesome and I hope they are fortunate in finding someone that’s right for them some day but if they don’t, that’s fine too.

We discuss that porn is wrong bc it messes up brains and expectations and funds the abuse of millions of people. 

[HomeAgain]

8 hours ago, Tap said:

I don't care if my kids have premarital sex or not. That is thier own choice and I wouldn't try to sway them either way.

Premarital sex doesn't ensure compatibility.

This.

The train of thought that sex lives are static and you don't learn/grow/change with the person you're with is pretty out there.  Like, that's really weird. Compatibility is something that happens over time as you grow more intimate and know more about each other so you can respect and love each other.

 

But, I don't want to know about my kids' sex lives.  I don't want to know about my friends' sex lives.  I don't want to go to Pure Romance parties and discuss my own sex life with friends and coworkers.  Call it my Catholicism showing, but the idea of encouraging my kids in ANY specific sexual notion is downright never going to happen because that's not what parents do in my book. 

[marbel]

56 minutes ago, Soror said:

Amazed at how much you guys know about your friend's sex lives (before and after marriage). I'm not certain anyone I know was a virgin before marriage. I would guess 1 couple was but couldn't say for sure. I'd guess most weren't. I think there are many more reasons a couple is likely to succeed or fail than whether or not they have sex before marriage.

At a couple of points in my life, I have had groups of super close friends who talked very openly about their lives. I was surprised to learn many of these friends had not even kissed anyone but their spouse before marriage! I am not privy to that much knowledge about all the people I know, lol, and I'm glad of that. But these conversations really changed my attitude about the need to date a lot, etc, before marrying.

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Soror said:

Amazed at how much you guys know about your friend's sex lives (before and after marriage). I'm not certain anyone I know was a virgin before marriage. I would guess 1 couple was but couldn't say for sure. I'd guess most weren't. I think there are many more reasons a couple is likely to succeed or fail than whether or not they have sex before marriage.

We used to sit around talking about it in college, suite mates. I don’t think that’s unusual.

[Farrar]

I had a good bit of premarital sex with partners of different genders and most of it was great and I'm totally glad I did. Obviously everyone should make their own call about this, but I do think before you commit to someone for life - if you're going to do that - is really a good idea in the vast majority of cases. 

I feel like I never know what direction a tea conversation on this board is going to take. There was a thread once that I will never forget where the overall gist of the majority opinion said you should never talk about sex with anyone, not even your sexual partner and what was the point of ever discussing anything to do with it. But then, of course, there are other times that people clearly want to talk about and do it.

[Spryte]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

We used to sit around talking about it in college, suite mates. I don’t think that’s unusual.

We did this, too.  Actually, I still have friends who are very open about the topic, and we occasionally have conversations about it.

But there are also some friends about whom I have no clue, we’ve just never discussed the topic, even though we are pretty close.  … Those friends are survivors of SA, though, so there’s baggage.  

As for premarital sex, I’m not the judgmental type.  I think there are many paths to a good marriage, if marriage is what one wants.  Maybe a better way for me to say it is that I think there are many paths to a solid relationship. Marriage is my choice, but I’ve seen lots of happy, long-term, committed relationships that don’t involve marriage, too. I’ll be happy however my kids land, I just want to see them with partners they trust, with whom they can grow and be happy.  

Our oldest (29 yrs old) is engaged, but they’ve been living together for a year.  When they stay here for the weekend, they get our basement - guest room and rec room.  Their sleeping arrangements are up to them, and I don’t put any thought into what they do down there other than, “Is this a comfortable place for them to sleep?  Is the guest room clean and comfortable?” Ostensibly one could choose the couches in the rec room, but I doubt that’s happening and it’s not my business to police the sleeping arrangements of adults. With this particular son, I’m just overjoyed to see him happy and thriving.  I adore his SO, and frankly, I’m glad they are living together and getting to know each other very well before marriage. There are issues at play that can make DSS a tough person to live with sometimes, and she needs to experience the full range of ups and downs.  Maybe that makes me sound pro-premarital sex, but it’s about a lot more than sex, here.

[DawnM]

23 minutes ago, Spryte said:

 

But there are also some friends about whom I have no clue, we’ve just never discussed the topic, even though we are pretty close.  … Those friends are survivors of SA, though, so there’s baggage.  

 

What is SA?

[TexasProud]

6 minutes ago, DawnM said:

What is SA?

sexual abuse

[mellifera33]

2 hours ago, Soror said:

Amazed at how much you guys know about your friend's sex lives (before and after marriage). I'm not certain anyone I know was a virgin before marriage. I would guess 1 couple was but couldn't say for sure. I'd guess most weren't. I think there are many more reasons a couple is likely to succeed or fail than whether or not they have sex before marriage.

I didn't attend this particular wedding, but my mom was appalled by the amount of time the minister talked about the virginal condition of a family member and new husband. Even joking about how awkward the wedding night would be. I hope that's unusual, but I haven't been to many weddings recently. 

[Spryte]

9 minutes ago, DawnM said:

What is SA?

I see someone else answered, just confirming that was what I meant.  

[Katy]

I think it’s odd that there’s anyone who doesn’t know anything about their close friends sex lives.  IME the higher the purity culture the more people talk about it, at least before having kids.  It’s obviously more difficult to discuss after kids.

[mommyoffive]

6 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Yeah, I'm with you. I'm agnostic on the matter. I don't think that one way is right and the other is wrong. I can see pros/cons of each and it's not my place to decide what's right for anyone else. As long as only consenting adults are involved, of course.

This is exactly what I was going to say.  There are pros and cons with both choices that are really valid.