Help me process this argument I had with my tween

[Shoeless]

I had a pretty horrible argument with DS12 yesterday.  He did something really awful and is grounded from electronics for 2 weeks. We had a HUGE shouting match about it last night that was probably 50% The Thing He Did and 50% pandemic-related stress. 

The household is feeling rather emotionally hungover after yesterday's argument. He and I do not normally argue, so when it happens (maybe once or twice a year), it tends to be HUGE. I feel awful.  I'm also sort of wondering what happened to the sweet boy who loved being around his mama.  There's definitely been a shift lately where I can tell he thinks I'm the biggest idiot he's ever met.  😞 

If you've had these sort of knock-down, drag-out fights with your tween or teen, how do you reset the emotional temperature of the household afterward?  

(Y'all do sometimes have big fights with your tween or teen where you totally lose your cool, right?   😞 )

[Melissa Louise]

Yeah, I've had some doozies last year. The emotional temperature was high. 

Mostly - model bringing down your own emotional temperature, however that works for you. Resume daily life at that lower intensity. Apologise if you need to, but don't over-emphasise your culpability. Figure out a way to pre-empt the same argument again, if possible. Make peace with your sweet boy being less than sweet  for a time. Pray the sweetness comes back some time! 

It's the worst. I hated arguing with my son. We went through a phase of constantly triggering each other. Terrible. I feel for you!

[mlktwins]

You are not alone (where is that hug emoji).  Ours are not very often, but the most recent ones have been over video games.

He is stubborn (like his dad) where I'm quick to apologize for my part in things.  No advice really other than to just give some space if he needs it, but let him know you still love him.  At some point, when things have calmed down, I will talk about what happened and why I reacted the way I did.  He often puts words in my mouth and I tell him he shouldn't do that.  Not to assume he knows what I'm thinking or what I'm about to say.  I try to offer some grace as he has teenage brain and I have menopausal brain -- LOL.  Neither of us are perfect.

He may not act like he wants to be around me for a week or so, but he always comes back to needing those hugs and cuddles (even at 15.5) and I give them willingly.

And...yes, I'm sure my twins think I'm the biggest idiot on the planet sometimes too.  I'm like I'm 53 -- I know so much more than you think I do -- LOL!!!  

[Not_a_Number]

23 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

The household is feeling rather emotionally hungover after yesterday's argument. He and I do not normally argue, so when it happens (maybe once or twice a year), it tends to be HUGE. I feel awful.  I'm also sort of wondering what happened to the sweet boy who loved being around his mama.  There's definitely been a shift lately where I can tell he thinks I'm the biggest idiot he's ever met.  😞 

(((Hugs))) I don't have experience with this, obviously, but it sounds really hard. And as you say, the stress of the pandemic would make things worse. 

I'm less easygoing than you, so I sometimes do lose my cool at my younger but annoyingly independent-minded kid, and yes... the next day tends to suck. (It doesn't happen THAT often, but more often than a few times a year. Maybe every month or two.) 

Honestly, my main suggestion is to take it one day at a time. I always wind up feeling shaky for a few days after a fight, no matter who it's with, because it DOES feel awful to have big fights. And then I'd apologize for anything you felt bad about (it's easy to say the wrong stuff in the middle of a fight!), stand firm on the stuff you were right about, and just keep putting one foot in front of the other. He isn't going to get another mother, no matter how much of an idiot he thinks this one is, right? 😉 So you've got to keep moving forward. 

[Forget-Me-Not]

Oh yes, it has happened here. 

If you're the praying sort, pray for wisdom and guidance.  Then, apologize for your part in the argument, and lower expectations about whether you'll receive one in return.  Reaffirm to kid that you love him.  Hug him or touch him in some way if he'll let you--I'm a big believer in that oxytocin rush that comes with touch.  Try to engage him in something (non-electronic) that you can do together or as a family, but if he still needs his space, respect that too.  

[MercyA]

I apologize for any bad behavior and say something like, "You know I love you more than anything, right?". She replies, "I love you, too, Mom" and we hug it out. We are both quick to forgive and put it behind us--that is just our personality. 

I think hormones have a lot to do with this. When I was a young teenager, I cursed at my mom at least once. I'm sure I told her I hated her. I was really terrible at times. After I moved out, she became (and still is) one of my best friends. This too shall pass.

[Not_a_Number]

18 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I apologize for any bad behavior and say something like, "You know I love you more than anything, right?". She replies, "I love you, too, Mom" and we hug it out. We are both quick to forgive and put it behind us--that is just our personality. 

My older girl isn't huggy at all, and it makes arguments harder. If she WANTS a hug, she must have actually gotten very upset, and it's not a good sign 😞 . 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Ditto]

They don't happen often at all, but I have had those with my kids over the years.   I always apologize for any not great behavior on my part and assure them that I love them more than anything in the world.  Then I do a reset.  We will change up the day and get out of the house for a bit which always helps us both.  If I feel we need to continue the conversation later then I make sure we are both calm and in good frames of mind to talk.  Those talks have always gone well and have provided the resolution we needed.    You are definitely not alone in having these blow ups and they thoroughly stink.

[Pam in CT]

(( hugs ))

Normal.

If you happen to be lucky enough to be more or less on the same page in how you respectively process hard-to-hold feelings, as it sounds like Mercy and her daughter happen to be...

14 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I apologize for any bad behavior and say something like, "You know I love you more than anything, right?". She replies, "I love you, too, Mom" and we hug it out. We are both quick to forgive and put it behind us--that is just our personality. 

I think hormones have a lot to do with this. When I was a young teenager, I cursed at my mom at least once. I'm sure I told her I hated her. I was really terrible at times. After I moved out, she became (and still is) one of my best friends. This too shall pass.

... well, first, count your blessings; and then second, what Mercy does.

 

The much harder dyads are the ones where YOUR go-to way of processing hard-to-hold feelings happens to be Absolutely Totally Different Planet than the other person's.  One out of three of mine is like that. And it's unspeakably hard and you, as the actual grownup, have to learn first how to act like a grownup in the face interactions that are abruptly, overnight, immeasurably harder than when they were -- just yesterday!! -- our sweet/ funny/ cuddly/ quirky little ones.

My sweet funny late last little one is about to turn 18.  I am sorry to report that they will never go back to the little kids they were before. But happy to report that it definitely gets better.  Just not the way it was. 

It's their job, developmentally, to separate, differentiate, develop identities distinct from their parents. It's our job to adjust to that. Both jobs are hard.

[Spryte]

We’ve had some doozies, too.  It’s not the norm, but it’s happened. We’ve had one since the pandemic.  It was awful, and obviously exacerbated by the pandemic stress.  We apologize and hug, and talk it out.  Maybe in reverse order, lots of talking, then apologies and hugs.  We then spend time together, doing fun things and “re-setting.”  I really make an effort the next day or two to reconnect, and try to make sure we do some one on one things to get our footing back.

[kbutton]

I think if you can identify what made it high stakes, sometimes that can help with managing it afterward and with making the next one more productive. Not always, but it can help. 

[MercyA]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

My older girl isn't huggy at all, and it makes arguments harder. If she WANTS a hug, she must have actually gotten very upset, and it's not a good sign 😞 . 

Ah, that's rough. I have a sibling like that. Even as a baby she would stiffen up like a board when you'd try to hold her. Does make things harder, for sure.

[Melissa Louise]

Hugs don't work here to bring the temperature down. The temp has to come down first. It comes down when the adult models it (mostly) though it's flipping painful to have to be so responsible all the time when your kid is objectively  being an ass. That's the job description though!

[fairfarmhand]

We do have arguments like that. 

It stinks. 

Generally, sharing a special snack treat helps mend fences a little.

[Farrar]

With one of mine, yes. A handful of times. 

It's complex. There have been growing pains on his part. Some mental health issues were at play for us here. It has gotten WAY better in the last six months or so. He's 16 and it was worst around age 15, but I think we had our first screaming fight at age 14 and there have been just three or four since. 

I always apologize once the temperature is down in the house. While I don't think I've ever been the one to do anything wrong to start it, it's not okay to let it get to that point for the adult in the situation and I try to own that and also apologize to the household because, as you point out, it's upsetting to everyone. I tend to hug the other kid and dh a bunch afterwards. He does not like hugs, which is his prerogative. 

[Annie G]

Considering that half of it was pandemic stress, it seems reasonable to admit that to the kid. Hey, I know you did something that broke our rules, and I was upset about that, but I let pandemic stress get the best of me and the argument got out of hand.  I’m sorry about that.  Being grounded is enough punishment.   
Perhaps accompanied w a favorite candy bar or taking said kid for another treat will smooth things over a little.  You’re not rewarding him, but some people like a little treat to make them feel better.

[elegantlion]

Ds and I rarely got into huge shouting matches because I really hate yelling, but we had major disagreements. 

One thing that worked was food and car rides. Usually I'd allow a cooling off period and then we'd go out for lunch (get takeout in this environment). I'd make him go with me and we'd talk in the car. I think it was here that I learned about how talking with your child while in the car, where you don't have to really look eye to eye, they're more apt to open up. 

I'd start by stating I wanted to talk about the fight, acknowledge my culpability, clarify their feelings "so you feel that x is not fair because y, am I right?" If it was a behavioral issue try to acknowledge their feelings, then work on talking through solutions and compromises. 

Ex-dh and ds got into more disagreements, ex was not good at conflict management. But sometimes, he'd ask ds to help him on a project - ex was a carpenter and we always had some house repair/update going on. So they could do something physical together and cool off. 

[gardenmom5]

I've never had a knock-down drag out fight with a tween or teen.  My youngest just turned 16 (he has ASD, and is very much demand avoidant) - and he's much younger than his siblings.

If there has been something to stress the relationship - I would go and let them know I still loved them.  (it's not changing my standards, it's assuring them I love them - and being willing to hear what they had to say, even if I don't agree with it.)  Showing nurture in *their* language.

Edited January 30, 2021 by gardenmom5

[Pam in CT]

One very specific thing I do is, whatever the prelude / whatever the PITA thing the kid did / however "right" I continue to believe I am about the Big Picture of the episode, is to say

Quote

"I am sorry that I lost my temper."

and then... STOP.

Just.stop.there.

No "I'm under stress because _______", no "let's move on quickly to watch a movie together," no move toward a hug or any other expectation from the other person who may not yet be ready for it (the kid in question takes a good long time, alone, before coming around to any kind of readiness), and DEFINITELY NOT anything on any version of

Quote

"I just get so frustrated when  ______ fill in some reason why MY bad conduct was actually kinda-sorta YOUR fault too ____"

Just, I'm sorry that I lost my temper.  And then leave the room.

Because I'm the dang grownup in the relationship. 

It's OK for me to get irritated, frustrated, angry; not OK for me to lose my sh!t, even in absolute PITA conditions. That is what it means to be the dang grownup.  However "right" I may feel about the Big Picture, I do not believe it is "right" for me to lose my temper, ever. So a "narrow" apology is quite sincere; and -- in the case of the kid in question -- any more than that is not constructive.

 

 

[gardenmom5]

15 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

One very specific thing I do is, whatever the prelude / whatever the PITA thing the kid did / however "right" I continue to believe I am about the Big Picture of the episode, is to say

and then... STOP.

Just.stop.there.

No "I'm under stress because _______", no "let's move on quickly to watch a movie together," no move toward a hug or any other expectation from the other person who may not yet be ready for it (the kid in question takes a good long time, alone, before coming around to any kind of readiness), and DEFINITELY NOT anything on any version of

Just, I'm sorry that I lost my temper.  And then leave the room.

Because I'm the dang grownup in the relationship. 

It's OK for me to get irritated, frustrated, angry; not OK for me to lose my sh!t, even in absolute PITA conditions. That is what it means to be the dang grownup.  However "right" I may feel about the Big Picture, I do not believe it is "right" for me to lose my temper, ever. So a "narrow" apology is quite sincere; and -- in the case of the kid in question -- any more than that is not constructive.

 

 

This - if we want our kids to learn to take responsibility for their actions, we need to demonstrate taking responsibility for OUR actions.  NO EXCUSES.

 

[Annie G]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

This - if we want our kids to learn to take responsibility for their actions, we need to demonstrate taking responsibility for OUR actions.  NO EXCUSES.

 

I agree with the goal of taking responsibility for actions with no excuses, but while in teaching mode, which you are with tweens, it seems ok to me to point out why you might have overreacted. Because kids overreact also, and seeing that adults do it(and own up to it)might help them when they have emotions too big to handle.  For instance, if a tween yells at a younger sibling and apologizes, it does solve the issue. But if the tween recognizes why they might have yelled, and then owns up to it, it can help on multiple fronts. Tween can learn that he needs to work more on controlling emotions, might understand when a friend gets upset over something minor, and might help a younger sibling to see that it wasn’t really them the tween was super angry about.  It seems more concrete than ‘don’t yell at your sibling’. 
‘But maybe that’s just me, shell shocked from three hormonal teenage daughters. 

[gardenmom5]

7 minutes ago, Annie G said:

I agree with the goal of taking responsibility for actions with no excuses, but while in teaching mode, which you are with tweens, it seems ok to me to point out why you might have overreacted. Because kids overreact also, and seeing that adults do it(and own up to it)might help them when they have emotions too big to handle.  For instance, if a tween yells at a younger sibling and apologizes, it does solve the issue. But if the tween recognizes why they might have yelled, and then owns up to it, it can help on multiple fronts. Tween can learn that he needs to work more on controlling emotions, might understand when a friend gets upset over something minor, and might help a younger sibling to see that it wasn’t really them the tween was super angry about.  It seems more concrete than ‘don’t yell at your sibling’. 
‘But maybe that’s just me, shell shocked from three hormonal teenage daughters. 

I can say "I was overwhelmed with other things" - but I also want them to know it was on me (or them) to recognize I was  (they were) reaching my (their) limit, and to remove myself (themselves) until I (they) could recharge.  There are always warnings before a blow-up.  I  had to learn this on my own - I received no adult guidance.  What did I feel just before I lost it?  what did I feel before that?  etc.  I learned to see it coming, and do something before the boiler blew.

IME: a *real* apology, where someone takes full responsibility for their actions - with sincere remorse, and gives zero excuse, and zero blame shifting is most likely to be helpful to the relationship.    (but not always enough to repair damage done.)   I have four adults, and one teen left at home.   1dd had incredibly volatile moods.  . . . . She was eventually diagnosed with ASD.   I thought it was hormones and would get better - it wasn't, and it didn't.   

for normal hormonal teens - yoga is very good for balancing moods as it stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system.  (there are some super ripped male yogis for guys who think it's a "girl thing". . .   

I've had to step in and explained my reasoning for doing something when an older sibling thinks younger sibling is getting away with something.  It has changed their perspective.  

[Shoeless]

22 hours ago, kbutton said:

I think if you can identify what made it high stakes, sometimes that can help with managing it afterward and with making the next one more productive. Not always, but it can help. 

He's been pushing a button I didn't realize I had: When I say "Hey, Action ABC is not ok because it can lead to Consequence XYZ", he gives me this "yeah, whatever" attitude. So I try to explain my position in a different way, thinking maybe a new approach will make him understand, and still get the uncaring stare in return.  I've always taken the stance that if I have to say no, I will offer an (age appropriate) reason for the "no", and he's accepted it. Now I am getting an "ok, boomer" attitude, which is like a match to gasoline for me. 

So obviously, I'm going to have to shift my strategy somewhat for when I have to say "no". 

I'll talk to him later tonight. I am going to apologize for yelling, without going into too much explanation right now, because this particular kid has a tendency to take an apology as admission of guilt. If I stick with "I am sorry I yelled", he'll say he is sorry, too. If I say "I'm sorry I yelled, I was feeling overwhelmed and took it out on you", he'll be like "Oh, so I was right all along and you were 100% wrong!".  I'll have to address the part about my feelings a little later, when he's more receptive to the bigger lesson of "We should not take our feelings out on other people". 

Thanks!

 

[Not_a_Number]

20 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

I'll talk to him later tonight. I am going to apologize for yelling, without going into too much explanation right now, because this particular kid has a tendency to take an apology as admission of guilt.

For what it's worth, that's a better apology, anyway. Other apologies have a way of sounding like excuses for the bad behavior. (Not that I don't do it. I do it all the time. But that really is how it sounds.) 

 

20 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

He's been pushing a button I didn't realize I had: When I say "Hey, Action ABC is not ok because it can lead to Consequence XYZ", he gives me this "yeah, whatever" attitude.

This kind of thing quickly gets me into the "and now YOU are going to explain to ME why this action isn't OK. If you don't want to do it verbally, you might have to do in writing." I don't know if it's productive, but it also sets me off... 

[Jaybee]

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

He's been pushing a button I didn't realize I had: When I say "Hey, Action ABC is not ok because it can lead to Consequence XYZ", he gives me this "yeah, whatever" attitude. So I try to explain my position in a different way, thinking maybe a new approach will make him understand, and still get the uncaring stare in return.  I've always taken the stance that if I have to say no, I will offer an (age appropriate) reason for the "no", and he's accepted it. Now I am getting an "ok, boomer" attitude, which is like a match to gasoline for me. 

So obviously, I'm going to have to shift my strategy somewhat for when I have to say "no". 

This is a little spinoff of your topic, but all my boys had a shift about the age of your ds. And just like that, poof, my sweet little boys were gone. I didn't have a lot of warning that the shift was coming. For two of them it lasted until 17 or so, except for occasional glimmers of The Child That Was. The last one, I'm still waiting. It's a little hard to explain, but it's like they hit a macho stage where mom isn't too smart and can't tell them anything. Homeschooling during that can become challenging. I hope it will be different for you (I don't mean for this to be discouraging), but it called for lots of patience and different strategies here. It can be a little hard on the ol' momma heart.

[scholastica]

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

He's been pushing a button I didn't realize I had: When I say "Hey, Action ABC is not ok because it can lead to Consequence XYZ", he gives me this "yeah, whatever" attitude. So I try to explain my position in a different way, thinking maybe a new approach will make him understand, and still get the uncaring stare in return.  I've always taken the stance that if I have to say no, I will offer an (age appropriate) reason for the "no", and he's accepted it. Now I am getting an "ok, boomer" attitude, which is like a match to gasoline for me. 

So obviously, I'm going to have to shift my strategy somewhat for when I have to say "no". 

I'll talk to him later tonight. I am going to apologize for yelling, without going into too much explanation right now, because this particular kid has a tendency to take an apology as admission of guilt. If I stick with "I am sorry I yelled", he'll say he is sorry, too. If I say "I'm sorry I yelled, I was feeling overwhelmed and took it out on you", he'll be like "Oh, so I was right all along and you were 100% wrong!".  I'll have to address the part about my feelings a little later, when he's more receptive to the bigger lesson of "We should not take our feelings out on other people". 

Thanks!

 

Sounds like it’s time for the talk about how you are responsible for him right now and are doing the best you can to make the right decisions. You are, of course, going to say no sometimes when it should or could be yes and yes sometimes when it should or could be no. But you are his parent and are responsible for him until he is of legal age. He can argue, and you can hear him out, but if you don’t change your mind, that’s it. He’s not going to like you when you say no and he’s not going to understand your stance because he lacks the perspective that life experience brings. Be sure you’re not parenting out of fear, bring dad into the decisions and be kind. Do not argue with a tween. They are irrational, that’s why they have parents. Hugs to you. This is all hard.

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, MissLemon said:

He's been pushing a button I didn't realize I had: When I say "Hey, Action ABC is not ok because it can lead to Consequence XYZ", he gives me this "yeah, whatever" attitude. So I try to explain my position in a different way, thinking maybe a new approach will make him understand, and still get the uncaring stare in return.  I've always taken the stance that if I have to say no, I will offer an (age appropriate) reason for the "no", and he's accepted it. Now I am getting an "ok, boomer" attitude, which is like a match to gasoline for me. 

So obviously, I'm going to have to shift my strategy somewhat for when I have to say "no". 

I'll talk to him later tonight. I am going to apologize for yelling, without going into too much explanation right now, because this particular kid has a tendency to take an apology as admission of guilt. If I stick with "I am sorry I yelled", he'll say he is sorry, too. If I say "I'm sorry I yelled, I was feeling overwhelmed and took it out on you", he'll be like "Oh, so I was right all along and you were 100% wrong!".  I'll have to address the part about my feelings a little later, when he's more receptive to the bigger lesson of "We should not take our feelings out on other people". 

Thanks!

 

The ok boomer attitude sets me off too. 0-100 immediately. I have to walk away from that type of 'tude. We can disagree, that's fine, but I don't tolerate lazy disdain.

Things are much better here now. I think it's developmental. Hope it passes quickly for you guys. 

 

[Scarlett]

On 1/29/2021 at 6:51 PM, MissLemon said:

I had a pretty horrible argument with DS12 yesterday.  He did something really awful and is grounded from electronics for 2 weeks. We had a HUGE shouting match about it last night that was probably 50% The Thing He Did and 50% pandemic-related stress. 

The household is feeling rather emotionally hungover after yesterday's argument. He and I do not normally argue, so when it happens (maybe once or twice a year), it tends to be HUGE. I feel awful.  I'm also sort of wondering what happened to the sweet boy who loved being around his mama.  There's definitely been a shift lately where I can tell he thinks I'm the biggest idiot he's ever met.  😞 

If you've had these sort of knock-down, drag-out fights with your tween or teen, how do you reset the emotional temperature of the household afterward?  

(Y'all do sometimes have big fights with your tween or teen where you totally lose your cool, right?   😞 )

Yes I did.  I did a lot of apologizing.  
 

And that natural pulling away that boys do from their mom is especially painful when you have been very close to him and / or you have an only.  

[Amy Gen]

I grew up in a family with a lot of yelling, so I married a man with considerable self control, and we just don’t have yelling. When someone here has something to say, they need to wait until they are in control enough to speak calmly and respectfully.  In our family, yelling is as taboo as if one of us just started hitting the other. 
 

The only reason I’m posting is that I wanted to commemorate with you about that attitude that you are the stupidest person in the world. Every one of my kids has gone through a stage of treating me that way. It just happens like clockwork. My sweet adoring child turns into an arrogant, smug teen with a superiority complex. 
 

I remind myself that they are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing at this age, and that they are never going to be able to separate from me and become their own strong adult self if our relationship stays in the same honeymoon stage of infancy and childhood. 
 

I try to treat their newfound distain for my intelligence with humor, so hopefully we can all end up laughing about it. 
 

When there is a real issue, not just a snotty attitude, I never use punishment because that just strengthens the message that we are on 2 different sides. Also, my kids are so dang stubborn that if I started trying to take privileges away from them, the game would be on to outsmart me and sneak around behind my back. That would all take the focus off of working on whatever the real issue was originally. 
 

We do a lot of problem solving together with the emphasis on being on the same team and having the same goals. I tell them to expect us to come up with a bunch of solutions that just don’t end up working before we find something that does because that is just how problem solving works. 
 

The good news is that after decades of practicing this, we have become pretty good collaborators, and once they out grow their teen years, even after they grow up and move across the country, they still come to me for advice and respect my opinions, which is my ultimate goal, not just obedience. 
 

I just wanted to let you know that your kid is just acting like a kid, and that behavior is going to last until maturity starts taking over. I’m not sure if there is anything that parents can do to shorten that time, so I try to make that period as low stress as possible and focus on the kind of relationship I want to have with them when they finally emerge on the other side. 
 

I have a 14 year old who is deep into her teen attitude and an 11 year old who is just testing the waters. My experience is that my kids start coming out of it at about age 22 so I have a lot longer to live with the eye rolling and resistance. It is in my own best interest to learn how to live with it with the least amount of conflict possible.  

[SKL]

Only girls here, but ... what I usually do is to let everyone sleep it off, and then inform the teen the next morning that an apology is needed.  Then give her some time to figure out how to swallow her pride and word an apology that allows everyone to save face.

If I've been ridiculous, then I will admit it, but that pretty much never happens without a lot of provocation.  So the teen's apology is still needed.