The Vaccine Thread

[Dmmetler]

L came home from college last night and gets a booster today :). That will reduce the anxiety over seeing friends dramatically. 

[Laura Corin]

Accelerated booster campaign, UK

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-59646151?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=61b84721531c2c4733360d8c%26Long queues at vaccine centres as 500%2C000 book in a day%262021-12-14T07%3A28%3A27.698Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:1fe873c1-23cc-4424-991a-baa8b8e1c3bd&pinned_post_asset_id=61b84721531c2c4733360d8c&pinned_post_type=share

[Corraleno]

Blood clot problems with AZ (and presumably J&J) traced to the adenovirus vector:

"Scientists believe they may have found the trigger behind the extremely rare blood clot complications stemming from the Oxford/AstraZeneca’s Covid vaccine. According to a team of researchers from Cardiff and the US, the reaction can be traced to the way the adenovirus used by the vaccine to shuttle the coronavirus’s genetic material into cells binds with a specific protein in the blood, known as platelet factor 4 (PF4). Researchers think this may spark a chain reaction in the immune system that can culminate in the development of blood clots – a condition known as vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia (VITT).

Prof Alan Parker, from Cardiff University’s School of Medicine, said: “VITT only happens in extremely rare cases because a chain of complex events needs to take place to trigger this ultra-rare side effect. Our data confirms PF4 can bind to adenoviruses, an important step in unravelling the mechanism underlying VITT. Establishing a mechanism could help to prevent and treat this disorder. We hope our findings can be used to better understand the rare side effects of these new vaccines and potentially to design new and improved vaccines to turn the tide on this global pandemic.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/02/covid-scientists-blood-clots-astrazeneca-covid-jab-vaccine-side-effects-pandemic

[Laura Corin]

Fascinating interview with the BBC Health and Science correspondent.  Brief transcript below about how multiple jabs build immunity:

Around minute 5:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct1nwb

'What you have soon after being boosted… each time you are exposed…. Your immune system learns profoundly more.  I compare it to Covid school, basically.  Your first dose is [like] going to Primary School, your second dose is going to Secondary School, your third dose is going to university.  It’s not like going to Primary School three times: what you end up with is significantly more knowledge… you get things like.. affinity maturation… you create this massive pool of antibodies.  Some of them are good, some of them are not that hot… each time they are exposed to the virus ... they go through a round of, like, evolution and get better at sticking to the virus.  That’s what you are getting by being boostered: a better immune system that understands its opponent more comprehensively, and that gives you better protection.  [Protection after the booster] is about more than just [having a jab quite recently].'

[wathe]

My province just announced booster eligibility change:  all adults 18+ and 3 months post-second dose are eligible as of Monday.

How we are going to scale up to accommodate, I have no idea.

[Laura Corin]

2 hours ago, wathe said:

My province just announced booster eligibility change:  all adults 18+ and 3 months post-second dose are eligible as of Monday.

How we are going to scale up to accommodate, I have no idea.

There are queues around the block here.

[wathe]

12 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

There are queues around the block here.

Worked a clinic today.  Same.

[iamonlyone]

15 hours ago, wathe said:

My province just announced booster eligibility change:  all adults 18+ and 3 months post-second dose are eligible as of Monday.

How we are going to scale up to accommodate, I have no idea.

I wish the US had already shortened the time frame to qualify for a booster. All in our family are boosted except for our ds24 who isn't eligible until the first week of January. He has moderate asthma and manages a retail store, so he has some risk and lots of potential exposure.

[mommyoffive]

Full vaccination against COVID-19 and a breakthrough infection builds 'super immunity,' study finds (msn.com)

[Syllieann]

We are up to 8 cases of myocarditis reported (total, not excess) with 2 million second doses in for ages 5-11.  Still looking pretty good.

https://www.ibtimes.com/8-young-kids-who-received-pfizer-covid-vaccine-had-heart-inflammation-cdc-says-3359736

[mommyoffive]

As the omicron variant threatens to wipe out monoclonal antibodies, the U.S. is saving up one that will still work (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

Pfizer to test a third dose of coronavirus vaccine in young children after two-dose regimen falls short (msn.com)

[Syllieann]

44 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Pfizer to test a third dose of coronavirus vaccine in young children after two-dose regimen falls short (msn.com)

That is so disappointing for parents of under 5s, but I'm glad to see testing is underway for third doses on ages 5-11 and 12-15.

[Acadie]

13 hours ago, iamonlyone said:

I wish the US had already shortened the time frame to qualify for a booster. All in our family are boosted except for our ds24 who isn't eligible until the first week of January. He has moderate asthma and manages a retail store, so he has some risk and lots of potential exposure.

You could check with his primary care to see if they agree he qualifies for a third dose, which can be given before the 6-month booster. 

[Corraleno]

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Full vaccination against COVID-19 and a breakthrough infection builds 'super immunity,' study finds (msn.com)

The increase in antibodies that OHSU found in a small number of people (26) with breakthrough infections was basically equivalent to a booster, and there's no evidence that boosters create any kind of "super immunity." In fact there is some data that even boosted antibodies wane over time, and both the OHSU breakthrough study and the UK BOOST study only measured antibodies 28 days after boosting/PCR test, when they are likely at their peak.

The article says: "The increase was substantial, up to 1000% increase and sometimes up to 2000%, so it's really high immunity," he said, "almost super immunity." For comparison, 2 doses of Pfizer plus a Moderna booster increased antibody levels from 3029 to 33,768. The question is how long those antibodies last — and how much protection they provide against omicron.

IMO the reference to "super immunity" in that article is really irresponsible, and I worry that people who reluctantly vaxed and don't want a booster will think it's a great idea to get infected, so they'll have "super immunity" and be immune to covid forever, when there is no evidence that is true.

 

[iamonlyone]

36 minutes ago, Acadie said:

You could check with his primary care to see if they agree he qualifies for a third dose, which can be given before the 6-month booster. 

Good idea. He lives in another state though (moved in April and doesn't have a primary care dr. yet), and it's crazy season for a store manager, so I don't see him making that happen. Thanks for the thought though!

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

Pfizer to test a third dose of coronavirus vaccine in young children after two-dose regimen falls short (msn.com)

UGH!!!! Looks like DD4 will just get vaccinated when she turns 5, in March, as that will be sooner than they can get a dose for young kids out. Blergh. 3 more months. 

[Corraleno]

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Pfizer to test a third dose of coronavirus vaccine in young children after two-dose regimen falls short (msn.com)

I wonder if 3 µg is just too small of a dose to be effective — for comparison, Moderna is using 25 µg in that age group. Pfizer is also only using 10 µg in ages 5-11, vs Moderna's 50 µg dose in 6-11. Pfizer has repeatedly said that they go with the lowest dose that gets a decent immune reaction with the lowest side effects, but in this case I think they've just gone too low, and they should try two doses of 5 or 10 µg in 2-4 yr olds instead of trying for 3 doses of 3 µg. If it takes 3 doses of 3 µg to get the same level of protection that other ages get with 2 doses, are 2-4 yr olds going to need a 4th (and even 5th) shot to get to the same level as a boosted older child? 

[Mom_to3]

35 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I wonder if 3 µg is just too small of a dose to be effective — for comparison, Moderna is using 25 µg in that age group. Pfizer is also only using 10 µg in ages 5-11, vs Moderna's 50 µg dose in 6-11. Pfizer has repeatedly said that they go with the lowest dose that gets a decent immune reaction with the lowest side effects, but in this case I think they've just gone too low, and they should try two doses of 5 or 10 µg in 2-4 yr olds instead of trying for 3 doses of 3 µg. If it takes 3 doses of 3 µg to get the same level of protection that other ages get with 2 doses, are 2-4 yr olds going to need a 4th (and even 5th) shot to get to the same level as a boosted older child? 

Indeed, and they should have done those studies with different dosages simultaneously to save time. 

[mommyoffive]

Why did the Pfizer young kids trial fail? (substack.com)

[Syllieann]

Dr. Hotez estimates 35% ve against symptomatic infection 3 months post boost.  He doesn't say if it's Pfizer or Moderna, but I'm thinking these are people with primary Pfizer and a Pfizer booster because I don't think anywhere was boosting Moderna that early.

https://abc13.com/houston-coronavirus-omicron-variant-in-us-covid-19-symptoms/11362777/

[mommyoffive]

Israel to Administer a Fourth Round of Covid Vaccines - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

Dec. 21, 2021Updated 6:20 p.m. ET

JERUSALEM — Israeli officials said Tuesday that the country will administer a fourth dose of the Covid-19 vaccine, in a bid to curb the rapid spread of the Omicron variant.

Israel is believed to be the first country to offer a fourth round of doses.

Naftali Bennett, the Israeli prime minister, said medical teams would begin to give fourth doses to those over 60, as well as to medical personnel, in a decision he hailed as “wonderful news that will assist us in getting through the Omicron wave that is engulfing the world.”

[Acadie]

Would be a dream come true--I can't believe it yet. 

https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2021/12/us-army-creates-single-vaccine-effective-against-all-covid-sars-variants/360089/

"Within weeks, scientists at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research expect to announce that they have developed a vaccine that protects people from COVID-19 and all its variants, even Omicron, as well as from previous SARS-origin viruses that have killed millions of people worldwide. 

The achievement is the result of almost two years of work on the virus. The Army lab received its first DNA sequencing of the COVID-19 virus in early 2020. Very early on, Walter Reed’s infectious diseases branch decided to focus on making a vaccine that would work against not just the existing strain but all of its potential variants as well.

Walter Reed’s Spike Ferritin Nanoparticle COVID-19 vaccine, or SpFN, completed animal trials earlier this year with positive results. Phase 1 of human trials, which tested the vaccine against Omicron and the other variants, wrapped up this month, again with positive results that are undergoing final review, Dr. Kayvon Modjarrad, director of Walter Reed’s infectious diseases branch, said in an exclusive interview with Defense One. 

Unlike existing vaccines, Walter Reed’s SpFN uses a soccer ball-shaped protein with 24 faces for its vaccine, which allows scientists to attach the spikes of multiple coronavirus strains on different faces of the protein.

“It's very exciting to get to this point for our entire team and I think for the entire Army as well,” Modjarrad said. 

The vaccine’s human trials took longer than expected, he said, because the lab needed to test the vaccine on subjects who had neither been vaccinated nor previously infected with COVID. The rapid spread of the Delta and Omicron variants made that difficult. 

“With Omicron, there's no way really to escape this virus. You're not going to be able to avoid it. So I think pretty soon either the whole world will be vaccinated or have been infected,” Modjarrad said. 

The next step is seeing how the new pan-coronavirus vaccine interacts with people who were previously vaccinated or previously sick. Walter Reed will be hiring a yet-to-be-named industry partner for that wider rollout."

Edited December 22, 2021 by Acadie

[Corraleno]

Novavax has now been approved by the EU, in addition to the Philippines, Indonesia, and the WHO. They say they will file for an EUA with the FDA by the end of the month, but I wonder what the odds are of getting approval at this point? The trials showed high efficacy against the original virus, but was not great against Beta, and the tests against omicron are ongoing. They say they will produce more than 2 billion doses in 2022, half of which will go to COVAX.

[Not_a_Number]

11 hours ago, Syllieann said:

Dr. Hotez estimates 35% ve against symptomatic infection 3 months post boost.  He doesn't say if it's Pfizer or Moderna, but I'm thinking these are people with primary Pfizer and a Pfizer booster because I don't think anywhere was boosting Moderna that early.

https://abc13.com/houston-coronavirus-omicron-variant-in-us-covid-19-symptoms/11362777/

Is there a paper or something? Where are they getting it? DH was telling me something totally opposite yesterday. 

[Syllieann]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Is there a paper or something? Where are they getting it? DH was telling me something totally opposite yesterday. 

On his Twitter he links this https://t.co/kuZwInO2wj

which seems to base the modeling on the earlier German paper

 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.07.21267432v1.full.pdf+html

Dh had lunch with someone today (fully Pfizer vaccinated) who just called to say he was feeling weird after work and took binax, which was pos.  Hoping dh's 3 week old Modern a booster holds up, but truthfully I'm not optimistic.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

On his Twitter he links this https://t.co/kuZwInO2wj

which seems to base the modeling on the earlier German paper

 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.07.21267432v1.full.pdf+html

Dh had lunch with someone today (fully Pfizer vaccinated) who just called to say he was feeling weird after work and took binax, which was pos.  Hoping dh's 3 week old Modern a booster holds up, but truthfully I'm not optimistic.

Oh, I see. That's just modeling, though -- there's no reason the booster ought to behave just like the original 2-shot vaccines. 

I'm going to remain optimistic until I get data to the contrary, lol. 

Edited December 22, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Syllieann]

Some updates from the UK

https://t.co/lOqLhRGaU4

Page 26 shows booster ve out to 10 weeks.  Moderna is still looking respectable.  Pfizer is fading fast.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Syllieann

[Kanin]

33 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

Page 26 shows booster ve out to 10 weeks.  Moderna is still looking respectable.  Pfizer is fading fast.

😞

[mommyoffive]

Booster shots protect against symptomatic Omicron infection for about 10 weeks, study finds — which could mean more doses for some in 2022 (msn.com)

[Longtime Lurker]

14 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Booster shots protect against symptomatic Omicron infection for about 10 weeks, study finds — which could mean more doses for some in 2022 (msn.com)

Huge sigh.

Signed,

the person who had her booster 12 weeks ago 😞

[Ting Tang]

32 minutes ago, Longtime Lurker said:

Huge sigh.

Signed,

the person who had her booster 12 weeks ago 😞

I just had mine on Sunday, but I originally had the one-and-done vaccine.  Now my husband, who is vaccinated, is very skeptical of all the extra doses.  How does one answer the question about not truly knowing what long-term effects so many injections could potentially have?  I know vaccine reactions usually occur shortly after an injection, but it is true, we have never had mRNA vaccines.  I know this technology has been studied for a long time, but does anyone truly know, especially if they are given to a developing child?  My husband is skeptical about vaccinating our children, and while I would like to with a degree of certainty of safety, I do worry about the trauma of multiple shots, over and over again.  They are just little children, and I have a large family.  I feel like people are either anti-vaccines or don't ask these questions.

[Harriet Vane]

38 minutes ago, Longtime Lurker said:

Huge sigh.

Signed,

the person who had her booster 12 weeks ago 😞

Right there with ya…😏

[Syllieann]

45 minutes ago, Longtime Lurker said:

Huge sigh.

Signed,

the person who had her booster 12 weeks ago 😞

Was it Pfizer?  Moderna is holding much better.

[KSera]

13 minutes ago, KrisTom said:

I just had mine on Sunday, but I originally had the one-and-done vaccine.  Now my husband, who is vaccinated, is very skeptical of all the extra doses.  How does one answer the question about not truly knowing what long-term effects so many injections could potentially have?  I know vaccine reactions usually occur shortly after an injection, but it is true, we have never had mRNA vaccines.  I know this technology has been studied for a long time, but does anyone truly know, especially if they are given to a developing child?  My husband is skeptical about vaccinating our children, and while I would like to with a degree of certainty of safety, I do worry about the trauma of multiple shots, over and over again.  They are just little children, and I have a large family.  I feel like people are either anti-vaccines or don't ask these questions.

I understand those concerns. I spaced out a lot of my kids’ vaccines so they didn’t get them all at the same time, particularly with my older kids. That said, the standard schedule has had kids and even babies getting multiple shots on a regular basis in order to fit them all in for a long time, and there has been no negative result from that schedule. With my youngest child, I’ve gone back to not spacing things out because I don’t see any evidence for me to continue doing that. The mRNA used in the mRNA vaccines is broken down and excreted by the body fairly quickly, so it’s not as if there is mRNA vaccine hanging around in the body long term to do something down the road that we don’t know about yet. If it’s no longer in the body, I just can’t see any mechanism that it could later do damage.

I think it’s helpful to think of vaccines as being like other immune system exposures. People don’t generally worry about their kids being exposed to viruses frequently, other than not wanting them to be sick all the time, but people tend to think it’s good for their immune system to have exposure. The vaccines allow their immune system to do its job without also having to get sick.

[Pawz4me]

Since both DH and I are immune compromised we had a third dose in August. I'm over 18 weeks out from that third dose. It's not something that concerns me much,* but I won't be surprised in the next few weeks if the CDC recommends that people like us get a booster sooner than the six month mark that's now being recommended.

*I certainly don't want to be sick, but I'm not particularly bothered by the possibility of having a case of Covid that causes only mild symptoms (as long as I didn't spread it to anyone else). I know a lot of people don't want anything.

[1234]

We’ll be 10 weeks out from our boosters on NYE but we have no plans on getting another one for several months, at least, unless something drastically changes. We’ve decided we’re fine with getting it if our vaccines so far will keep us from getting seriously ill (which I do believe is the case). 

[Dmmetler]

16 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

Was it Pfizer?  Moderna is holding much better.

One reason why Moderna is looking better is that Moderna boosters weren't approved until about a month after Pfizer was. So those of us who were all Pfizer and were able to get Pfizer boosters in time to really help with Delta now are facing that we may not get as much help against Omicron as those who got Moderna a month later. 

[KSera]

10 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

One reason why Moderna is looking better is that Moderna boosters weren't approved until about a month after Pfizer was. So those of us who were all Pfizer and were able to get Pfizer boosters in time to really help with Delta now are facing that we may not get as much help against Omicron as those who got Moderna a month later. 

The studies I’ve seen have controlled for time by studying number of weeks out from booster dose. That said, real world results are likely to amplify that result for the reason you give—people who were first to get boosters are likely to be Pfizer. 

[ktgrok]

41 minutes ago, KrisTom said:

I just had mine on Sunday, but I originally had the one-and-done vaccine.  Now my husband, who is vaccinated, is very skeptical of all the extra doses.  How does one answer the question about not truly knowing what long-term effects so many injections could potentially have?  I know vaccine reactions usually occur shortly after an injection, but it is true, we have never had mRNA vaccines.  I know this technology has been studied for a long time, but does anyone truly know, especially if they are given to a developing child?  My husband is skeptical about vaccinating our children, and while I would like to with a degree of certainty of safety, I do worry about the trauma of multiple shots, over and over again.  They are just little children, and I have a large family.  I feel like people are either anti-vaccines or don't ask these questions.

Had he seen how many doses kids get of say, Dtap or what not?

[Ting Tang]

39 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Had he seen how many doses kids get of say, Dtap or what not?

We talked about that, too.  4 of the 5 are given during babyhood. 

What would you say to someone who is hesitant due to not knowing of any potential long-term side effects of multiple mRNA shots in children (aside from most vaccine reactions occur shortly after injection/aside from Covid risks)?  I think some vaccinated parents are hesitant for this reason.  For the time being, my kids rarely go anywhere, are homeschooled, and wear kf94 masks the rare times they do go someplace. ETA I just read someone else's response to how to perhaps diffuse some of this concern.  I am just very worried about Covid but still nervous about the vaccine.  I also wish more adults would have considered it, and maybe we'd be in better shape.  I also wish more adults would take precautions. Also noting, we have a history of lead poisoning in our family due to contaminated water, so I am sure that plays into our emotions. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by KrisTom

[Ting Tang]

59 minutes ago, KSera said:

I understand those concerns. I spaced out a lot of my kids’ vaccines so they didn’t get them all at the same time, particularly with my older kids. That said, the standard schedule has had kids and even babies getting multiple shots on a regular basis in order to fit them all in for a long time, and there has been no negative result from that schedule. With my youngest child, I’ve gone back to not spacing things out because I don’t see any evidence for me to continue doing that. The mRNA used in the mRNA vaccines is broken down and excreted by the body fairly quickly, so it’s not as if there is mRNA vaccine hanging around in the body long term to do something down the road that we don’t know about yet. If it’s no longer in the body, I just can’t see any mechanism that it could later do damage.

I think it’s helpful to think of vaccines as being like other immune system exposures. People don’t generally worry about their kids being exposed to viruses frequently, other than not wanting them to be sick all the time, but people tend to think it’s good for their immune system to have exposure. The vaccines allow their immune system to do its job without also having to get sick.

Thank you.  I responded to someone else asking what to say before I read this. lol  I have said the same thing to my husband, that the vaccine leaves the body.  I should note we have a history of lead poisoning in our family.  Our drinking water got contaminated, and my two oldest were lead poisoned, and they do have ongoing issues because of it. Lead does stay in the bones, we're both a bit nervous--he is just more against it than I am worried. 

[KSera]

26 minutes ago, KrisTom said:

Thank you.  I responded to someone else asking what to say before I read this. lol  I have said the same thing to my husband, that the vaccine leaves the body.  I should note we have a history of lead poisoning in our family.  Our drinking water got contaminated, and my two oldest were lead poisoned, and they do have ongoing issues because of it. Lead does stay in the bones, we're both a bit nervous--he is just more against it than I am worried. 

I understand. I’m personally much more concerned about the potential for discovering long-term effects from having had Covid-19  (which we already know is something that can happen via long Covid, but we have no idea yet if there are even more long-term ramifications, as is the case for some other viruses out there). To me, there is more of a plausible mechanism for that to happen, seeing as how researchers are finding virus throughout the body and even in the brains of people even a year after they’ve had the illness, versus the vaccine, which leaves the body rather quickly. I don’t say that to freak you out, but to explain my thinking as far as why it makes more sense to me to worry about long-term risks of the virus at this point than of the vaccine. I expect my unvaccinated four year old would almost surely come through illness just fine, but I don’t like the unknowns of a new virus; to me it’s a bigger uncertainty than the vaccine.

[vonfirmath]

1 hour ago, Dmmetler said:

One reason why Moderna is looking better is that Moderna boosters weren't approved until about a month after Pfizer was. So those of us who were all Pfizer and were able to get Pfizer boosters in time to really help with Delta now are facing that we may not get as much help against Omicron as those who got Moderna a month later. 

Since my original vaccine was Moderna, I tried to get a Moderna booster recently and could not find one.

[desertflower]

51 minutes ago, KrisTom said:

We talked about that, too.  4 of the 5 are given during babyhood. 

What would you say to someone who is hesitant due to not knowing of any potential long-term side effects of multiple mRNA shots in children (aside from most vaccine reactions occur shortly after injection/aside from Covid risks)?  I think some vaccinated parents are hesitant for this reason.  For the time being, my kids rarely go anywhere, are homeschooled, and wear kf94 masks the rare times they do go someplace. ETA I just read someone else's response to how to perhaps diffuse some of this concern.  I am just very worried about Covid but still nervous about the vaccine.  I also wish more adults would have considered it, and maybe we'd be in better shape.  I also wish more adults would take precautions. Also noting, we have a history of lead poisoning in our family due to contaminated water, so I am sure that plays into our emotions. 

I would say that we know the effects of long covid. This vaccine leaves our body.  Honestly, I could die tomorrow in a car accident, let alone worried about a potential side effect that may or may not  happen in five years. 
 

Most people are scared and concerned whenever a new vaccine is developed. How do you think people felt about the smallpox vaccine?  They were probably thinking “What? Inject me with a live virus?” 😂

With regard to my kids, who are vaccinated, this vaccine is not changing their dna. One of my daughters still gets her period. Much to her dismay. Haha
 

the book titled “A shot to save the world’ by Gregory Zuckerman may calm your fears. It explains how the vaccine was developed and how it works. 
 

your case may be different since two of your children had lead poisoning. I don’t know. I’m not a doctor. But this is how I would explain. 
 

hope this helps. 

[desertflower]

37 minutes ago, KSera said:

I understand. I’m personally much more concerned about the potential for discovering long-term effects from having had Covid-19  (which we already know is something that can happen via long Covid, but we have no idea yet if there are even more long-term ramifications, as is the case for some other viruses out there). To me, there is more of a plausible mechanism for that to happen, seeing as how researchers are finding virus throughout the body and even in the brains of people even a year after they’ve had the illness, versus the vaccine, which leaves the body rather quickly. I don’t say that to freak you out, but to explain my thinking as far as why it makes more sense to me to worry about long-term risks of the virus at this point than of the vaccine. I expect my unvaccinated four year old would almost surely come through illness just fine, but I don’t like the unknowns of a new virus; to me it’s a bigger uncertainty than the vaccine.

I agree. It’s why we are vaccinated, wear masks and still stay home for the most part. 😂  We just don’t know enough about this virus. Studies are showing that people who loss smell or taste may have a little bit of brain damage. 😱 

Eta: I’m not afraid. I just went to target last Tuesday evening and it was packed. Just cautious. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by desertflower

[1234]

19 minutes ago, desertflower said:

I agree. It’s why we are vaccinated, wear masks and still stay home for the most part. 😂  We just don’t know enough about this virus. Studies are showing that people who loss smell or taste may have a little bit of brain damage. 😱 

Eta: I’m not afraid. I just went to target last Tuesday evening and it was packed. Just cautious. 

Where are you reading this? Losing taste and smell, even permanently, with any virus is actually not that uncommon. I lost mine about eight years ago with the flu and it’s never returned to normal but there is not any brain damage (and I’ve had more than one scan to make sure there was nothing seriously wrong). I’m curious about this so would like to read it myself. 

[KSera]

5 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

Where are you reading this? Losing taste and smell, even permanently, with any virus is actually not that uncommon. I lost mine about eight years ago with the flu and it’s never returned to normal but there is not any brain damage (and I’ve had more than one scan to make sure there was nothing seriously wrong). I’m curious about this so would like to read it myself. 

COVID May Cause Long-Term Brain Loss, Study Says

Comparison of the before-and-after brain scans found “significant effects of COVID-19 in the brain with a loss of grey matter” in parts of the brain connected to smell and taste.

"All significant results were found in the primary or secondary cortical gustatory and olfactory areas, in the left hemisphere, using grey matter information (volume, thickness)," the study found.

Loss of smell and taste is one of the hallmarks of a COVID-19 infection. Research shows it can continue up to 5 months after the virus first strikes.

“The diminishment in the amount of cortical tissue happened to be in regions of the brain that are close to the places that are responsible for smell,” Gottlieb said. “What it suggests is that the smell, the loss of smell, is just an effect of a more primary process that’s underway, and that process is actually shrinking of cortical tissue.”

 

[1234]

8 minutes ago, KSera said:

COVID May Cause Long-Term Brain Loss, Study Says

Comparison of the before-and-after brain scans found “significant effects of COVID-19 in the brain with a loss of grey matter” in parts of the brain connected to smell and taste.

"All significant results were found in the primary or secondary cortical gustatory and olfactory areas, in the left hemisphere, using grey matter information (volume, thickness)," the study found.

Loss of smell and taste is one of the hallmarks of a COVID-19 infection. Research shows it can continue up to 5 months after the virus first strikes.

“The diminishment in the amount of cortical tissue happened to be in regions of the brain that are close to the places that are responsible for smell,” Gottlieb said. “What it suggests is that the smell, the loss of smell, is just an effect of a more primary process that’s underway, and that process is actually shrinking of cortical tissue.”

 

Thanks! I also found this article discussing the study which I found helpful. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/covid-linked-to-loss-of-brain-tissue-but-correlation-doesnt-prove-causation-163183

[desertflower]

18 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

Where are you reading this? Losing taste and smell, even permanently, with any virus is actually not that uncommon. I lost mine about eight years ago with the flu and it’s never returned to normal but there is not any brain damage (and I’ve had more than one scan to make sure there was nothing seriously wrong). I’m curious about this so would like to read it myself. 

I honestly don’t remember. BBC or CNN pr nbc or abc or cbs or the New York Times. One of those. 
the study wasn’t conclusive though at the time.