wuhan - coronavirus

[ktgrok]

On the no trade work thing during lockdown - is there an exception for emergencies? Like, if someone's plumbing springs a leak and is flooding the house or whatever?

Also, what is a sparkie? Not sure if that is welder or electrician or?

[lewelma]

8 hours ago, ktgrok said:

On the no trade work thing during lockdown - is there an exception for emergencies? Like, if someone's plumbing springs a leak and is flooding the house or whatever?

Also, what is a sparkie? Not sure if that is welder or electrician or?

A sparkie is an electrician.

I'm sure there is an exception for emergencies. But they aren't mentioning it. I did know people last year in April whose frig died during level 4 lockdown and they had to use a chilli bin with ice for a few weeks. We are very serious about lockdowns here. 

[lewelma]

Also, they opposition leader was apparently 'fulsome' over the decision. I had to go look that word up. LOL. There is agreement here from both sides of the aisle that elimination is our strategy and we are sticking to it. As the minister of finance said last night 'as strong health response is a strong economic response'. Our economy is going great guns even without the tourists. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by lewelma

[Terabith]

44 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Also, they opposition leader was apparently 'fulsome' over the decision. I had to go look that word up. LOL. There is agreement here from both sides of the aisle that elimination is our strategy and we are sticking to it. As the minister of finance said last night 'as strong health response is a strong economic response'. Our economy is going great guns even without the tourists. 

I agree with this, but man, I feel really sorry for anyone whose power goes out or whose major appliance (like refrigerator) dies, or who has a plumbing leak or other major disaster.

[lewelma]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

I agree with this, but man, I feel really sorry for anyone whose power goes out or whose major appliance (like refrigerator) dies, or who has a plumbing leak or other major disaster.

The problem is that we want everyone to stay home, not just the middle class and rich people. We don't want people delivering food to your door, or loading trucks from the port, or driving a bus, or actually being in your house providing a service. Everyone needs to stay home. So if there is an emergency, call the fire department, but otherwise do some kiwi ingenuity and make do. These are first world problems.

The mood here is good. It my block of flats, people have offered to shop for others and put extra masks out. We have been brainstorming how to get one of our residents back to Wellington because he took a train and then a bus to the ski field and now both are cancelled for a return trip. We are all looking out for each other. So far, even the South Islanders are saying 'we are in this together' even though they have the Cook Straight and and 8 hour drive between them and the 5 cases. That plus all flights and ferries are now closed so no one can travel there anyway. There is trust here that we can do this again. There is simply no bitching in the news. We have all seen NSW, and just don't want to be in their situation. Go hard. Go early.

Edited August 17, 2021 by lewelma

[Melissa Louise]

I'm glad we can at least be an object lesson. Something good out of the debacle.

[Melissa in Australia]

New Zealand has 4 cases today. One was working in a hospital. It has been confirmed to be the Delta strain

[lewelma]

9 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I'm glad we can at least be an object lesson. Something good out of the debacle.

Sorry, but yes. Ardern brought up that we are basically the last country to see the Delta variant in our community so we have been learning from others as they have struggled with community spread. 

We do know how to manage delta in MIQ as we currently have 40 cases throughout the country in the different MIQ facilities. For the past 6 weeks, all cases but 1 have been delta, so we have managed about 120 cases without spreading outside the facilities. But they knew and warned us, that it would happen eventually.

Edited August 17, 2021 by lewelma

[lewelma]

7 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

New Zealand has 4 cases today. One was working in a hospital. It has been confirmed to be the Delta strain

Yup. All 4 are genomically linked to the first guy. My guess is the numbers the government considered went something like this: Since they can't link the first case to the border yet, he is probably the second generation.  So the first generation spread it to 6 people, and this guy is 1 of those 6. He spreads it to 6 people as did the other 5, so we are now looking for 36 people.  If they had not locked down hard and fast, those 6 people in 5 days would have spread it to 6 more each. And we are at 216. So by going into this hard lockdown for 3 days (maybe more) they will stop the transmission at 36 people, and will have a chance to find them all. Waste water was clear last Thursday, so we are talking 2 generations and not more. 

Exponential growth is a bitch.

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by lewelma

[Ausmumof3]

7 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Yup. All 4 are genomically linked to the first guy. My guess is the numbers the government considered went something like this: Since they can't link the first case to the border yet, he is probably the second generation.  So the first generation spread it to 6 people, and this guy is 1 of those 6. He spreads it to 6 people as did the other 5, so we are now looking for 36 people.  If they had not locked down hard and fast, those 6 people in 5 days would have spread it to 6 more each. And we are at 216. So by going into this hard lockdown for 3 days (maybe more) they will stop the transmission at 36 people, and will have a chance to find them all.  Exponential growth is a bitch.

Are they moving active cases and contacts into managed quarantine?  That seems to have helped here.

[lewelma]

12 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Are they moving active cases and contacts into managed quarantine?  That seems to have helped here.

yes. That is what they have done in the past.

[Terabith]

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

The problem is that we want everyone to stay home, not just the middle class and rich people. We don't want people delivering food to your door, or loading trucks from the port, or driving a bus, or actually being in your house providing a service. Everyone needs to stay home. So if there is an emergency, call the fire department, but otherwise do some kiwi ingenuity and make do. These are first world problems.

The mood here is good. It my block of flats, people have offered to shop for others and put extra masks out. We have been brainstorming how to get one of our residents back to Wellington because he took a train and then a bus to the ski field and now both are cancelled for a return trip. We are all looking out for each other. So far, even the South Islanders are saying 'we are in this together' even though they have the Cook Straight and and 8 hour drive between them and the 5 cases. That plus all flights and ferries are now closed so no one can travel there anyway. There is trust here that we can do this again. There is simply no bitching in the news. We have all seen NSW, and just don't want to be in their situation. Go hard. Go early.

Oh yeah.  I totally AGREE with it.  I just think that would be a sucky situation.  But y'all are definitely, 100% doing the right thing!

[Melissa Louise]

I've just managed to get bookings for vaccinations for both DD and DS. Only just heard about how to do it on news, wasn't open till 9am but just decided to try early - and was able to book for this Sunday. I feel beyond grateful, and it turned out, like most humans, ethics didn't come into it. It wasn't as if I could direct their doses back to COVAX or Poland. 

Fingers crossed it all goes ahead smoothly. I'll be on tenterhooks till that jab is in their arms. 

Only Melbourne DD to sort out now. 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

The problem is that we want everyone to stay home, not just the middle class and rich people. We don't want people delivering food to your door, or loading trucks from the port, or driving a bus, or actually being in your house providing a service. Everyone needs to stay home. So if there is an emergency, call the fire department, but otherwise do some kiwi ingenuity and make do. These are first world problems.

The mood here is good. It my block of flats, people have offered to shop for others and put extra masks out. We have been brainstorming how to get one of our residents back to Wellington because he took a train and then a bus to the ski field and now both are cancelled for a return trip. We are all looking out for each other. So far, even the South Islanders are saying 'we are in this together' even though they have the Cook Straight and and 8 hour drive between them and the 5 cases. That plus all flights and ferries are now closed so no one can travel there anyway. There is trust here that we can do this again. There is simply no bitching in the news. We have all seen NSW, and just don't want to be in their situation. Go hard. Go early.

Oh yeah.  I mean, I was thinking the house is flooding and can't get the water shut off, or sewage back up, health stuff. Otherwise, yeah. 

And truly am envious. This is what we should have done, and could have done, and now we have so many dead or ill. Ugh. I want to be a Kiwi when I grow up. 

57 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Yup. All 4 are genomically linked to the first guy. My guess is the numbers the government considered went something like this: Since they can't link the first case to the border yet, he is probably the second generation.  So the first generation spread it to 6 people, and this guy is 1 of those 6. He spreads it to 6 people as did the other 5, so we are now looking for 36 people.  If they had not locked down hard and fast, those 6 people in 5 days would have spread it to 6 more each. And we are at 216. So by going into this hard lockdown for 3 days (maybe more) they will stop the transmission at 36 people, and will have a chance to find them all. Waste water was clear last Thursday, so we are talking 2 generations and not more. 

Exponential growth is a bitch.

 

What is astounding is not that your government could figure this out, as it seems obvious. but that they gave a flying fig and did the math and made a decision based on it, rather than throwing up their hands and saying, "well...that would be hard, so I guess it is impossible...we will just let people die."

So jealous. 

[lewelma]

26 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Oh yeah.  but that they gave a flying fig and did the math and made a decision based on it, rather than throwing up their hands and saying, "well...that would be hard, so I guess it is impossible...we will just let people die."

There is also a zero tolerance policy to misinformation, both from the government and the press.  Here is our main NZ news website showcasing how misinformation is bad. 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126107665/covid19-conspiracy-theorists-stop-for-no-pandemic

Just like yelling 'fire' in a crowded movie theater, peddling misinformation on covid is illegal here, whether you are a politician, a newspaper, or a radio jocky. We are all doing our part to dob it in. My dh has been taking photos around town of anti-vax graffiti and sending it in to the graffiti squad to paint over. They usually get it done within 24 hours.

Edited August 17, 2021 by lewelma

[lewelma]

Just out - genome testing links this case to NSW. 

[Ausmumof3]

16 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Just out - genome testing links this case to NSW. 

Is it an older case then?  I thought the flights had been stopped for a while?

[Ausmumof3]

633 cases 3 deaths for NSW.

[lewelma]

5 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Is it an older case then?  I thought the flights had been stopped for a while?

Flights from all the other states were still allowed. (But with testing first (and after for Victoria)). My guess is a traveller from NSW to another Australian state to NZ. But the modellers have put out similar info that I hypothesized above. 2nd generation would be about 50  cases expected, if third generation then up to 120 cases. Waste water was clear one week ago. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by lewelma

[Ausmumof3]

2 more cases for NZ so total of 7 now.

Both Qld and WA have announced press conferences - hoping that’s not bad news.

24 for VIC.  Even under pretty strict lockdown cases seem to be steady not falling.  

[Ausmumof3]

12 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Flights from all the other states were still allowed. (But with testing first (and after for Victoria)). My guess is a traveller from NSW to another Australian state to NZ. But the modellers have put out similar info that I hypothesized above. 2nd generation would be about 50  cases expected, if third generation then up to 120 cases. Waste water was clear one week ago. 

Seems to be a good indicator.  They had waste water detection in Broken Hill (NSW/SA border bubble town) a couple of days ago and then detected a case today or yesterday.

I thought the travel bubble was fully closed didn’t realise there was still transit.

[Ausmumof3]

Just overseas cases for QLD and WA looks like I was worrying for nothing!  I get kind of edgy every time there’s an extra press conference right now!

[lewelma]

1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Seems to be a good indicator.  They had waste water detection in Broken Hill (NSW/SA border bubble town) a couple of days ago and then detected a case today or yesterday.

I thought the travel bubble was fully closed didn’t realise there was still transit.

It closed two weeks ago. And they gave everyone one week to get home with a pre departure test and isolation when back here and another five day test for Victoria. They have said that they have had 100 % compliance.  So given this case is from NSW, it means a false negative test.

They are pulling the manifests for the last three weeks and are going to interview all people who have flown back. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, lewelma said:

It closed two weeks ago. And they gave everyone one week to get home with a pre departure test and isolation when back here and another five day test for Victoria. They have said that they have had 100 % compliance.  So given this case is from NSW, it means a false negative test.

They are pulling the manifests for the last three weeks and are going to interview all people who have flown back. 

We had one case from the Modbury cluster that didn’t show up till day 15 - could it be a longer incubation period issue with Delta?

 

[lewelma]

Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

We had one case from the Modbury cluster that didn’t show up till day 15 - could it be a longer incubation period issue with Delta?

 

Absolutely. Or even we could be on fourth generation if the first and second generation were stay-at-home type people. If each early generation case gave it to only one or two others, then we could have a month with clear wastewater as it takes a couple positive people to have positive wastewater. A month ago they were less careful about checking the pre departure tests for people coming from Australia. 

[Melissa Louise]

36 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

633 cases 3 deaths for NSW.

OMG! 🙁

[lewelma]

Police commissioner has stated that they will prosecute anyone who gathers. And have already dispersed a crowd of 100 protesters last night.

It made me laugh when he was pressed by the reporter about what they would do about people who don't follow the rules, and he said "we've got this." And that was the end of the question. The press was like, OK.  

Really, it seems like a vast majority of people are behind this, including the press and the opposition leader. We have had 15 months of freedom that we want back. So like let's get this thing done. I am looking down at the three busiest streets in Wellington and there are 3 cars on the 9 lanes that I can see from my house on the hill. 

[lewelma]

I will add that my younger son is still stuck on the Volcano because it is snowing and they can't get their van out.  They have to get back by tomorrow at 7pm or my 3 homeschool mom friends will be in charge of 12 kids on the side of a volcano for however long this takes. LOL.

Edited August 18, 2021 by lewelma

[Drama Llama]

8 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I will add that my younger son is still stuck on the Volcano because it is snowing and they can't get their van out.  They have to get back by tomorrow at 7pm or my 3 homeschool mom friends will be in charge of 12 kids on the side of a volcano for however long this takes. LOL.

Hard to know what to hope for there.  I mean, you could have a nice romantic staycation . . . . 

[lewelma]

1 minute ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Hard to know what to hope for there.  I mean, you could have a nice romantic staycation . . . . 

I know, right!!!

[lewelma]

Here are some photos of where they are camped out. They have a cheap lodge where they had to bring sleeping bags and towels.  The ski field is now closed, but they are playing in the snow.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ruapehu+with+snow&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwi97cKiw7nyAhV5G7cAHYInAScQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=ruapehu+with+snow&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIECCMQJzIECCMQJ1C4F1jpK2CkMGgAcAB4AIAB0QGIAa4OkgEFMC44LjKYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=i3AcYf37Lvm23LUPgs-EuAI&bih=547&biw=1242&rlz=1CAEVJI_enNZ953NZ953

[Terabith]

Wait, they seriously wouldn't be stuck on the side of the volcano?  Would they????  What will happen if they can't get out?

[SoCal_Bear]

On 8/15/2021 at 6:20 PM, Melissa Louise said:

What I'm beginning to understand, though, is just because I think state identities are b/s -never in my life have I thought of myself as a New South Welshwoman, just a Sydneysider and an Aussie - doesn't mean the country isn't full of ppl who have some sort of bizarre state identity, well before any national identity. 

As an American, we are really familar with this. People are really tied to their state identities here.

 

[lewelma]

19 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Wait, they seriously wouldn't be stuck on the side of the volcano?  Would they????  What will happen if they can't get out?

Jacinda actually answered that question at the stand up today. She said that you have 48 hours. That that is enough time. But there will be a very few exceptions made for extremely unusual circumstances. Basically, get home and do it now because where ever you are by tomorrow at 7pm, you are staying there. There are literally only TWO roads into Wellington. So I'm sure the police will be stopping people to see why you are on the motorway going in or out.

So clearly being stuck in snow would be a reasonable excuse, but they are trying to get out today.

 

[lewelma]

And the volcano has not erupted for 20 years. So I think they could stay and I could have my staycation. 🙂

https://www.google.com/search?q=ruapehu+eruption&rlz=1CAEVJI_enNZ953NZ953&sxsrf=ALeKk00KGRiQWjTUWfn1YXILn85U3YnMCg:1629255554711&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiHwNj0ybnyAhV6wjgGHU6xCvIQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1242&bih=547

[Drama Llama]

22 minutes ago, lewelma said:

And the volcano has not erupted for 20 years. So I think they could stay and I could have my staycation. 🙂

https://www.google.com/search?q=ruapehu+eruption&rlz=1CAEVJI_enNZ953NZ953&sxsrf=ALeKk00KGRiQWjTUWfn1YXILn85U3YnMCg:1629255554711&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiHwNj0ybnyAhV6wjgGHU6xCvIQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1242&bih=547

If they cant get the van out do they have enough food?

[vonfirmath]

3 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

If they cant get the van out do they have enough food?

This is my concern. You know along with I wouldn't want my kid that far away. But it doesn't sound like lewelma has any choice 😞

[Drama Llama]

40 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

This is my concern. You know along with I wouldn't want my kid that far away. But it doesn't sound like lewelma has any choice 😞

I feel like the NZ government actually prioritizes kids so they’ll figure it out.  

[lewelma]

55 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

If they cant get the van out do they have enough food?

Oh, they are at a village of lodges next to ski field and there is a ranger type guy checking up on them. I assume that the ranger has a 4 wheel drive.  I'll hear within an hour if they can leave today. 

My ds is 17 and with a bunch of other teens, so its not like they are little kids. LOL.

And let's be clear, there are currently 7 cases out of a population of 5 million, so its not like he has been exposed. They are just hanging out in the snow. But thanks for worrying about him.

Edited August 18, 2021 by lewelma

[KSera]

2 hours ago, lewelma said:

Police commissioner has stated that they will prosecute anyone who gathers. And have already dispersed a crowd of 100 protesters last night.

It made me laugh when he was pressed by the reporter about what they would do about people who don't follow the rules, and he said "we've got this." And that was the end of the question. The press was like, OK.  

Really, it seems like a vast majority of people are behind this, including the press and the opposition leader. We have had 15 months of freedom that we want back. So like let's get this thing done. I am looking down at the three busiest streets in Wellington and there are 3 cars on the 9 lanes that I can see from my house on the hill. 

I’m rooting hard for you guys!

[Laura Corin]

On 8/16/2021 at 2:51 AM, ScoutTN said:

I wonder what percentage of people, in our various countries, have underlying/pre-existing health conditions? 

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-021-10427-2

This can't include obesity however. That's around 28 percent in the UK.

[Dmmetler]

9 hours ago, lewelma said:

I will add that my younger son is still stuck on the Volcano because it is snowing and they can't get their van out.  They have to get back by tomorrow at 7pm or my 3 homeschool mom friends will be in charge of 12 kids on the side of a volcano for however long this takes. LOL.

Honestly, after last year in the USA, I think it would be better to have 12 teens stuck together than to be stuck in 12 individual homes. They'd at least have each other and the snow to play in. Although the chaperones might disagree.....

[ktgrok]

8 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

Honestly, after last year in the USA, I think it would be better to have 12 teens stuck together than to be stuck in 12 individual homes. They'd at least have each other and the snow to play in. Although the chaperones might disagree.....

I don't know, the chaperones wouldn't have bored whiny teens like they would at home alone. Kids that age, chaperones can just hang out together while the teens run amok in the snow. 

now, the real question is how much coffee they have, and how much toilet paper. 

[Faith-manor]

54 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I don't know, the chaperones wouldn't have bored whiny teens like they would at home alone. Kids that age, chaperones can just hang out together while the teens run amok in the snow. 

now, the real question is how much coffee they have, and how much toilet paper. 

QFT! I can handle watching kids romp around and play winter sports but only if I have caffeine. Being in caffeinated is my Kryptonite!!!! ☕ Of course this 🍸has been known to help as well. 😂

[BeachGal]

Nitric oxide nasal spray Enovid shows good results in killing Covid virus in patients’ noses. Available in Israel, where it was created, and is being distributed to other countries as well but not US.

Human testing results

In a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled Phase 2 trial that evaluated 79 confirmed cases of COVID-19, SaNOtize’s early treatment for COVID-19 significantly reduced the level of SARS-CoV-2, including in patients with high viral loads. The average viral log reduction in the first 24 hours was 1.362, which corresponds to a decline of about 95%. Within 72 hours, the viral load dropped by more than 99%. The majority of these patients had been infected with the UK variant, which is considered a variant of concern.

https://sanotize.com/enovid/

 

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, BeachGal said:

Nitric oxide nasal spray Enovid shows good results in killing Covid virus in patients’ noses. Available in Israel, where it was created, and is being distributed to other countries as well but not US.

Human testing results

In a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled Phase 2 trial that evaluated 79 confirmed cases of COVID-19, SaNOtize’s early treatment for COVID-19 significantly reduced the level of SARS-CoV-2, including in patients with high viral loads. The average viral log reduction in the first 24 hours was 1.362, which corresponds to a decline of about 95%. Within 72 hours, the viral load dropped by more than 99%. The majority of these patients had been infected with the UK variant, which is considered a variant of concern.

https://sanotize.com/enovid/

 

That sounds promising. I would love to see a bigger trial of this (preferably one that's not funded and designed by the manufacturer as this was) specifically against Delta, since one of the characteristics that makes Delta so contagious is the enhanced ability to replicate very quickly in nasal passages, with much higher viral loads there.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Corraleno said:

That sounds promising. I would love to see a bigger trial of this (preferably one that's not funded and designed by the manufacturer as this was) specifically against Delta, since one of the characteristics that makes Delta so contagious is the enhanced ability to replicate very quickly in nasal passages, with much higher viral loads there.

yup, and did anyone read it (I know...I will later) and see was that reduction permament, or like, 10 minutes after spraying the viral load is down but an hour later is back? 

If it really reduces it longer term, having people spray with it daily before school, work, etc would be HUGE. Still have to worry about people coughing, but if used daily might keep the virus from getting as far as the lungs?

[Corraleno]

15 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

yup, and did anyone read it (I know...I will later) and see was that reduction permament, or like, 10 minutes after spraying the viral load is down but an hour later is back? 

If it really reduces it longer term, having people spray with it daily before school, work, etc would be HUGE. Still have to worry about people coughing, but if used daily might keep the virus from getting as far as the lungs?

They had people do swabs in the morning on days 1, 2, 4, and 6, before using the spray, to determine viral load. There were 80 subjects, split between the treatment and placebo groups, and they used either a NO spray or saline placebo 5-6 times per day. The study says "A rapid reduction (95%) in the SARS- CoV-2 viral load was observed within 24 hours, with a 99% reduction observed within 72 hours with NONS treatments."

Here's a link to the publication, but you have to scroll down quite a bit to page 260. The title is "Clinical efficacy of nitric oxide nasal spray (NONS) for the treatment of mild COVID-19 infection." It's a letter to the editor, so I'm guessing that means not peer reviewed? 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8117664/pdf/main.pdf

Edited August 18, 2021 by Corraleno

[BeachGal]

20 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

That sounds promising. I would love to see a bigger trial of this (preferably one that's not funded and designed by the manufacturer as this was) specifically against Delta, since one of the characteristics that makes Delta so contagious is the enhanced ability to replicate very quickly in nasal passages, with much higher viral loads there.

Phase 3 are in the works. Not in the US though.

A free way to boost nitric oxide is to just hum. A few minutes in the morning and then again in the evening. Some cardiologists recommend this to their patients.

[PaxEtLux]

Dumb question:  If the primary way the virus gets into and grows inside the body is via the nose, wouldn't nose clips be more effective than masks?