S/o International people views on Americans

[Rosie_0801]

2 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

Although the Lane Cove municipal district library has a much larger US history section than the state university research library in my city has on Australian history....

 

To be fair, white Australian history is rather boring. I don't want to learn it either.

[Condessa]

 

13 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Wealthy Asian tourists used to stop me and my children at Ala Moana mall in Hawaii, approach and try to talk to, touch, and take photos with my children as if I was invisible and wouldn’t care. They were always offended when I said not no, but HELL NO.

 

This is the only foreign tourist behavior that really bothers me.  I've had Asian tourists following us to take photos of my kids, trying to get their attention, and stepping around me reaching for them taking more pictures as I am actively stepping between the tourists and my kids asking them to stop.  I could get it if it were just that this was acceptable in their culture so they didn't realize it might be a problem, but trying to sidestep me to keep shooting pictures as I'm asking them to stop, and following us for ten, fifteen minutes through the crowds after we decided to leave the area to get away from them?

Edited January 19, 2020 by Michelle Conde

[Guest]

Just now, Rosie_0801 said:

 

To be fair, white Australian history is rather boring. I don't want to learn it either.

DD was quite enamored by the Emu war.  

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Joker said:

I'm sorry but I find the bold to be a bunch of bs and I'm American. I feel like I see "if you don't like it, leave" on almost a daily basis and it isn't because the people being told to leave find multiculturalism intolerable. My mouth actually flew open when I read this. It's just so far from the truth. 

To be fair I literally see this on bumper stickers.  I couldn’t claim that my part of the world is overly multicultural 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

9 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

More like just not teaching dates at all.  I mean I knew you guys came in after pearl harbour but I had the vague idea that that was around 1943 before this thread.  So if it achieved nothing else it straightened that out.  History education here is not great and definitely not focussed on American history.  I guess much as American history classes probably don’t do a tonne of Australian history though I may be wrong.

Which is why I wouldn't be making a comment about Australian history, especially a petty one, without making sure I had my facts straight. 

[Ausmumof3]

Just now, ChocolateReignRemix said:

Which is why I wouldn't be making a comment about Australian history, especially a petty one, without making sure I had my facts straight. 

Fair call 

[Rosie_0801]

4 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

DD was quite enamored by the Emu war.  

 

I just had to google it!
Seriously, why did they beat us half to death with the same three topics over and over, when they could have told us about this?  !!

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

DD was quite enamored by the Emu war.  

DS too. He made me buy a whole book on it.

[Condessa]

I have a question.

First, I agree that this is totally ridiculous and rude :

5 hours ago, Corraleno said:

there was an incredible amount of animosity towards the French ("Freedom fries" anyone?) and tons of media saying how ungrateful they were and the French "owed" us for saving their asses in WWII,

 

But I'm curious, do you think the Allies would have won WWII without the US's involvement?

17 hours ago, kiwik said:

And no you didn't ride in on a white charger in the second world war you just came in at the end when you could no longer ignore it.

5 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Americans who, to this day, insist that all of Europe would be speaking German if it weren't for Americans.

 

[wintermom]

8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Whelp, we have a decentralized system WRT education not a national one like many other countries so you can not directly compare. It’s true that languages other than English are primarily passed down in the home. We do have language immersion schools all over the country, languages are taught in public schools (perhaps not effectively). There’s also a whole field of certification for teaching English as a second language. There are ethnic food festivals everywhere a large group of any particular ethnicity exists, be it Greek, Mexican, Cuban, or something else. And, yes, these activities do receive public financial support.

Perhaps the different terms are just a government strategy that doesn't mean anything more than a place to divert taxes and create jobs. We can have a minister of multiculturalism and spend a lot of tax money on some stuff that looks nice from the outside. You can have a melting pot department. Ours sounds nicer, but what do they really mean?

Individual people are going to do what they want to and need to as far as keeping their language and traditions. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, StellaM said:

 

Depends on the state, and decade I guess.

I did Modern History for the HSC and dates and full details of the international conflict that was WW11 was very definitely taught.

 In fact, I was teaching some US history, dates included, in the context of the NSW Freedom Rides and the '68 Referendum in the final term of last year.

Decade I think

there was no history in primary school it was “society and environment”.  I finally got some history in year 10 at a private school but world war 2 was mostly focussed on the holocaust and we had literally the most boring history teacher in the world.  Oh and we did a whole slab on the French Revolution.  So I didn’t choose history for the last two years.  I agree it hasn’t always been that bad but our generation got seriously little history education at all.  I’m learning a tonne just from story of the world with my kids which is kind of sad.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

 

It's actually pretty interesting once you dig down in folk history.

I found Australian history pretty interesting when going through it with DD. One thing I really liked about the Australian textbooks was that there was no glossing over the bad stuff. Bad decisions, failures, and outright stupidity were pointed out, not excused or omitted. 

[Sneezyone]

10 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Perhaps the different terms are just a government strategy that doesn't mean anything more than a place to divert taxes and create jobs. We can have a minister of multiculturalism and spend a lot of tax money on some stuff that looks nice from the outside. You can have a melting pot department. Ours sounds nicer, but what do they really mean?

Individual people are going to do what they want to and need to as far as keeping their language and traditions. 

FTR, we don’t have a melting pot department, not a thing. We do have federal departments focused on civil rights and labor law enforcement, disability rights, and discrimination. States have them too and some municipalities.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Melissa in Australia]

Boy I must have lucked out at my high school. we had a great history curriculum , first sumer, and the Fertile Crescent, then Egypt, then Greece, then Rome, then English history up until the turning Australia into a penal colony, then heaps of stuff on convicts and the struggles of early settlers with farming and drought. That was 3 years worth. The following year was Australian politics so I stopped talking history. Though I did do an elective on Australian history In the 20th century at university.

no history of North America though

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Post-Howard, history studies have been vastly less outward looking. 

I graduated before Howard 🙂

Yeah you were lucky!  I was lucky enough to have a mum who taught me (and half my class) to read using phonics in the sight word generation and also one teacher who snuck phonics in.  But otherwise my primary years were kind of bleak.   Math teachers were good.  And the German teacher in spite of being grumpy managed to actually get something across in the year we were there.  Grammar was limited to punctuation, nouns, verbs and adjectives.  

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Boy I must have lucked out at my high school. we had a great history curriculum , first sumer, and the Fertile Crescent, then Egypt, then Greece, then Rome, then English history up until the turning Australia into a penal colony, then heaps of stuff on convicts and the struggles of early settlers with farming and drought. That was 3 years worth. The following year was Australian politics so I stopped talking history. Though I did do an elective on Australian history In the 20th century at university.

no history of North America though

I suspect it’s an age thing.  History literally was not a subject in school here before year 10 for me.  I vaguely remember a term on Egyptians at one point.  That said I went to a very lower socioeconomic area primary school before year 5, homeschooled for a bit (learned most history during those years but was still kind of scattershot) before 3 years of private high school.  I didn’t choose history once I had the option because my experience with it was pretty much nil.  My kids know more history than I did when I graduated high school.  Most history I’ve learned from novels, historical fiction and story of the world sadly.

[Melissa in Australia]

1 minute ago, StellaM said:

 

That's been a recent development. We didn't talk about the massacres till the 90's. Open secret though. 

I have a family member very interested in folk music, and it's super interesting tracing settlement, union, political history through song.

 

I don’t know, we learned about the massacres in grade 4 of primary school. But that might be because one happened in my area and there is a grave memorial to the person who started it right beside a road in town. That would have been around 1980ish ( when I was in grade 4; not the massacre 

[Ausmumof3]

Oh and in case I forgot it we learned about the all important captain cook who was the first living being to discover Australia (eye roll)

[ChocolateReignRemix]

17 minutes ago, Michelle Conde said:

But I'm curious, do you think the Allies would have won WWII without the US's involvement?

 

Very unlikely.  Britain was hanging on by a thread in 1941 and there was no chance of them ever staging an invasion of western Europe without aid from the US.  Without the threat of a western front and the Italian front the Germans likely could have held off the Soviet advance. 

 

[Pen]

53 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

At this point I’m wondering if we’re going to start world war 3 with a forum post 😆

 

 

🤣

Or  maybe we are learning to “use our words” ?

[Melissa in Australia]

1 minute ago, ChocolateReignRemix said:

Very unlikely.  Britain was hanging on by a thread in 1941 and there was no chance of them ever staging an invasion of western Europe without aid from the US.  Without the threat of a western front and the Italian front the Germans likely could have held off the Soviet advance. 

 

not completely correct. My FIL was German,  from Prussia, He has told me about how bad it was getting in Germany and how practically the whole population of Prussia fled before the Russian  invasions

[wintermom]

20 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

FTR, we don’t have a melting pot department, not a thing. We do have federal departments focused on civil rights and labor law enforcement, disability rights, and discrimination. States have them too and some municipalities.

Do you actually have a sense of humour?  It was a joke! Of course you don't.

Edited January 19, 2020 by wintermom

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Do you actually have a sense of humour? 

Yea. I do. It’s dry tho and frequently laced with sarcasm. I just don’t feel especially humorous about this particular topic. ETA: Well never mind then. I guess you’ve got me pegged! Good on ya!

Edited January 19, 2020 by Sneezyone

[wintermom]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

Yea. I do. It’s dry tho and frequently laced with sarcasm. I just don’t feel especially humorous about this particular topic.

What particular topic is that? You seem to be uptight about this entire thread and ready to take on the world.  Calm down a little. 

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, wintermom said:

What particular topic is that? You seem to be uptight about this entire thread and ready to take on the world.  Calm down a little. 

Please refrain from telling me how I should feel about or react to the comments in this thread. Thanks.

ETA/: for those who are actually curious, I find it distasteful to stereotype people based on what they look like and how they dress not what they actually do. And demonizing people based on their national leadership is how the US got to the point of banning immigration from a variety of countries. I fail to see the humor in any of it.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Sneezyone

[DesertBlossom]

48 minutes ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

 

This is the only foreign tourist behavior that really bothers me.  I've had Asian tourists following us to take photos of my kids, trying to get their attention, and stepping around me reaching for them taking more pictures as I am actively stepping between the tourists and my kids asking them to stop.  I could get it if it were just that this was acceptable in their culture so they didn't realize it might be a problem, but trying to sidestep me to keep shooting pictures as I'm asking them to stop, and following us for ten, fifteen minutes through the crowds after we decided to leave the area to get away from them?

Several years ago while visiting a somewhat touristy location, a couple from Beijing sat by as we were sitting down taking a break. Beijing was the only word we communicated, but the man was gushing over one of my boys, gesturing to take a picture with him. I asked DS if he felt uncomfortable and he said no. Maybe he though the attention was fun. But then out of nowhere this man gets touchy, patting on him and he totally patted DS's crotch area. I immediately stood up and left with my kids, wondering if I should call security. I didn't because I wasn't sure it really registered with DS what had just happened and I knew if I made a big deal out of it, the moment would be burned into his memory.  Never again will I let someone get near my kids again. I am still upset my mama bear instincts didn't kick in a few moments earlier.

[Rosie_0801]

27 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

I made my girls learn about the invention of the stump plough, at which point they rebelled and said 'no more AU history!'

Oops.

 

There's a nice little museum about the development of the combine harvester near-ish by. I found that when dd was too small to remember it. Ha. I'll put that on the list of things to do.

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, DesertBlossom said:

Several years ago while visiting a somewhat touristy location, a couple from Beijing sat by as we were sitting down taking a break. Beijing was the only word we communicated, but the man was gushing over one of my boys, gesturing to take a picture with him. I asked DS if he felt uncomfortable and he said no. Maybe he though the attention was fun. But then out of nowhere this man gets touchy, patting on him and he totally patted DS's crotch area. I immediately stood up and left with my kids, wondering if I should call security. I didn't because I wasn't sure it really registered with DS what had just happened and I knew if I made a big deal out of it, the moment would be burned into his memory.  Never again will I let someone get near my kids again. I am still upset my mama bear instincts didn't kick in a few moments earlier.

That was our experience too. I assume they found my DDs hairstyle, color and features exotic and wanted to touch it/her and capture it for posterity. They had a hard time taking no for an answer and were often aggressive. I quickly became aggressive right back. DD was 3 and DS was 1. I have a hard time lumping this into the same category as disfavored footwear.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Sneezyone

[HS Mom in NC]

ETA: Here's the map and a brief summary of the American regional "nations."  I assume it's confusing for the international crowd who can't be expected to know this.  Here's a cheat sheet: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-map-11-separate-nations-colin-woodward-yankeedom-new-netherland-the-midlands-tidewater-greater-a8078261.html

For those of you interested in the different cultural nations/regions inside the US and how they came to be, this book is a helpful read: https://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures/dp/0143122029/ref=sr_1_1?crid=MJOSG9DO0U6Y&keywords=american+nations+colin+woodard&qid=1579408161&sprefix=American+nationas%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-1

Edited January 19, 2020 by Homeschool Mom in AZ
summary and map added

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I remember some song about the melting pot at school and I always thought the concept was creepy.  What throw everyone in together, subject them to some heat and stirring and they all turn into the same thing?  Weird 

 

Is the video with the recipe book and soup pot any less creepy?  🤣

 

[Condessa]

My (US public school) education covered certain topics in history very thoroughly, while glossing over or never mentioning all the rest.  I have learned so much as an adult and while teaching my kids.  I'd of course heard references to and excerpt of Churchill's "we shall fight on the beaches" speech, but never knew before setting out to memorize it with the kids last year that the next part was an appeal to my country to come rescue the European Allies.

"Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous States have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Gestapo and all the odious apparatus of Nazi rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old."

[ChocolateReignRemix]

30 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

not completely correct. My FIL was German,  from Prussia, He has told me about how bad it was getting in Germany and how practically the whole population of Prussia fled before the Russian  invasions

I am not sure how that disputes anything I said.  The U.S. was in the war and was providing significant military aid to Britain and the Soviets.  Remove the U.S. and the threat of a western front, the Italian front, and the North African campaign and the picture in the east develops very differently.

[Condessa]

8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

That was our experience too. I assume they found my DDs hairstyle, color and features exotic and wanted to touch it/her and capture it for posterity. They had a hard time taking no for an answer and were often aggressive. I quickly became aggressive right back. DD was 3 and DS was 1. I have a hard time lumping this into the same category as disfavored footwear.

 

I think with us it may have been that we have four stair-step kids with mostly fair hair--several tried to pet my daughter's very straight, blond hair.  We don't get it as much now.  Not sure how much of that is the kids not being as little, or their hair darkening as they age, or how much is me learning to be more assertive when it comes to strangers near my kids.

[MercyA]

24 minutes ago, StellaM said:

I've got Prussia in my family background too!

Me, too! Small world. 🌏

[HS Mom in NC]

I updated my previous post with a map and brief summary of American nations so the international crowd can more fully participate this this part of the discussion.

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

I think with us it may have been that we have four stair-step kids with mostly fair hair--several tried to pet my daughter's very straight, blond hair.  We don't get it as much now.  Not sure how much of that is the kids not being as little, or their hair darkening as they age, or how much is me learning to be more assertive when it comes to strangers near my kids.

Probably all of the above. I’m sure small children seem more accessible. I haven’t, in all the years that we’ve traveled and lived OCONUS as a family, had a similar experience since. 

When I was in China tho, there were several people in our party who approached small children in a similar way (no touching) and wanted to chat and take pics. I’m not so sure how the locals reacted since these were stereotypical American teachers and are often presumed to be non-threatening. Also, I don’t speak the language, lol. I found that episode equally distasteful (probably a result of my own experience) but held my tongue. I discovered that I do not enjoy group travel.

[Ausmumof3]

19 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

 

Is the video with the recipe book and soup pot any less creepy?  🤣

 

That is incredibly similar!  Like maybe it was an Australianised version of the same thing!  

[SKL]

2 hours ago, wintermom said:

I'm not "exalting" multiculturalism as something better, I'm pointing out differences in how our countries approach immigration. How much government support is there in the US for international language education, festivals, or similar? Lets see where the money is. I've already stated that the Canadian governments of all levels financially support language and cultural education of immigrants. What does the US government do?

The US does not generally bankroll cultural events of any group, but there are many such events produced by the many communities as well as multi-cultural groups.  There are all sorts of cultural and business organizations, church/religion-run and community schools, etc. which provide pretty comprehensive exposure, mutual support, and a voice for people of various backgrounds.  Where there are concentrations of ethnic people, we have neighborhoods self-designated Polish [etc] Village, Little Italy, Chinatown, etc.

I am not sure why the government would need to educate immigrants about their birth cultures.  For that matter, I don't know why anyone would want the government deciding that kind of message for their children.

I wonder how much of that in Canada was related to the movements in Quebec to ... well, I won't put words in their mouths, and I don't remember it clearly, but from what I understand, Quebec is a powerful force and a bit rebellious against being subjected to central Canadian rule, and some of the governmental differences, such as requiring French translations of everything, is the result of having to work out compromises (which not all Canadians agree with).

The other part is probably because the US generally prefers a "smaller government" and more local and individual control over most details.

In terms of foreign languages, a couple things.  First, in areas with a lot of kids who speak a given foreign language at home, schools are available that teach in those languages as well as in English.  That said, most immigrants and bilingual families are more concerned that their child learn English [in school] in order to keep their career options open etc.  Second, foreign language is a normal funded part of public education - different systems offer different amounts of education, but afaik every public high school offers at least a couple languages other than English - and these would include the language(s) most commonly spoken in the region, as well as other(s).  Though I don't know how much value that adds as far as studying the language one already speaks at home. 

For a few groups, most notably Hispanics, there are special rules and government-funded programs intended to prevent uneven / discriminatory educational outcomes.

Now, politicians like to get involved in the various movements / activities.  They have their initiatives etc.  They have some funding behind these initiatives.  But these are not what the communities rely on to celebrate, preserve, and pass on culture.

Edited January 19, 2020 by SKL

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, StellaM said:

 

Who knows? It's difficult to discount the role of the Russians on the European front(s).

If we just consider the Pacific, I'd say they were more decisive.

 

Yes I’ve always had the impression that the Russians a significant factor.  I am sure it would have been longer without us involvement.

Also would the us have got involved if they weren’t attacked?   

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)
 

I did some reading on wiki seeing as my ww2 knowledge outside the holocaust is admittedly vague.  We’re finally hitting modern history this year so looking forward to learning more.

[LaughingCat]

You guys are cracking me up with the melting pot references -- the indoctrination of US children apparently spread to world citizens too!  

 

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, wintermom said:

I'm not "exalting" multiculturalism as something better, I'm pointing out differences in how our countries approach immigration. How much government support is there in the US for international language education, festivals, or similar? Lets see where the money is. I've already stated that the Canadian governments of all levels financially support language and cultural education of immigrants. What does the US government do?

We have loads of international festivals.  Our district's middle schools have one every year.  I imagine a lot of the community and city festivals are self-supporting.  Schools have foreign language classes and specialized English classes for speakers of other languages (ESOL). My county high schools teach several levels of Chinese, French, German, Italian, Latin, Russian, Spanish, and Sign Language.  That's all funded through the school system.  The military has language schools that come from the military budget. Local libraries receive federal grant money to provide basic adult and language acquisition training for immigrants.  These are just the things I know about without research and a lot of levels of funding, but it's regional.  Some places offer more and some less. It's not nationalized.

 

36 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

That was our experience too. I assume they found my DDs hairstyle, color and features exotic and wanted to touch it/her and capture it for posterity. They had a hard time taking no for an answer and were often aggressive. I quickly became aggressive right back. DD was 3 and DS was 1. I have a hard time lumping this into the same category as disfavored footwear.

I had this experience as an adult.  It was my own fault for walking around Seoul and minding my own business. 

 

What I REALLY want to know is why Canada seems to largely get a pass on everything when not one of them has explained WTH "Letterkenney" is all about.  It's really weird and they should take some responsibility for it.

[KungFuPanda]

46 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

That is incredibly similar!  Like maybe it was an Australianised version of the same thing!  

Did you have it for grammar, science, and government too? 

[Frances]

46 minutes ago, SKL said:

The US does not generally bankroll cultural events of any group, but there are many such events produced by the many communities as well as multi-cultural groups.  There are all sorts of cultural and business organizations, church/religion-run and community schools, etc. which provide pretty comprehensive exposure, mutual support, and a voice for people of various backgrounds.

I am not sure why the government would need to educate immigrants about their birth cultures.  For that matter, I don't know why anyone would want the government deciding that kind of message for their children.

I wonder how much of that in Canada was related to the movements in Quebec to ... well, I won't put words in their mouths, and I don't remember it clearly, but from what I understand, Quebec is a powerful force and a bit rebellious against being subjected to central Canadian rule, and some of the governmental differences, such as requiring French translations of everything, is the result of having to work out compromises (which not all Canadians agree with).

The other part is probably because the US generally prefers a "smaller government" and more local and individual control over most details.

In terms of foreign languages, a couple things.  First, in areas with a lot of kids who speak a given foreign language at home, schools are available that teach in those languages as well as in English.  That said, most immigrants and bilingual families are more concerned that their child learn English [in school] in order to keep their career options open etc.  Second, foreign language is a normal funded part of public education - different systems offer different amounts of education, but afaik every public high school offers at least a couple languages other than English - and these would include the language(s) most commonly spoken in the region, as well as other(s).  Though I don't know how much value that adds as far as studying the language one already speaks at home. 

For a few groups, most notably Hispanics, there are special rules and government-funded programs intended to prevent uneven / discriminatory educational outcomes.

Now, politicians like to get involved in the various movements / activities.  They have their initiatives etc.  They have some funding behind these initiatives.  But these are not what the communities rely on to celebrate, preserve, and pass on culture.

Every high school in the US does not offer instruction in at least a couple of languages other than English. A good chunk don’t even offer one language other than English and most offer only Spanish. Foreign language instruction is not a strength in the US public education system, and regular instruction, outside of immersion programs, generally starts much too late to achieve a useful level of fluency.

https://www.americancouncils.org/sites/default/files/FLE-report-June17.pdf

In terms of studying a language already spoken at home, depending on the level of parental education and other factors, a child may get a very high amount of exposure to vocabulary, grammar, reading, and writing or very little. Some children or teens who can speak it have little to no experience reading or writing it and no formal grammar instruction.

And relating to what US high schools offer, did you know that only about 60% of US high schools offer even one physics class? I think sometimes people are unaware of how limited the educational opportunities are in some US public schools outside of their own former or current experience.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Frances

[Ausmumof3]

4 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Did you have it for grammar, science, and government too? 

No definitely not

i don’t think it was the schoolhouse rock version just wondering if someone plagiarised the song if that makes sense?  Or maybe it’s just the concept is inherently creepy 

[Sneezyone]

22 minutes ago, Frances said:

Every high school in the US does not offer instruction in at least a couple of languages other than English. A good chunk don’t even offer one language other than English and most offer only Spanish. Foreign language instruction is not a strength in the US public education system, and regular instruction, outside of immersion programs, generally starts much too late to achieve a useful level of fluency.

https://www.americancouncils.org/sites/default/files/FLE-report-June17.pdf

In terms of studying a language already spoken at home, depending on the level of parental education and other factors, a child may get a very high amount of exposure to vocabulary, grammar, reading, and writing or very little. Some children or teens who can speak it have little to no experience reading or writing it and no formal grammar instruction.

And relating to what US high schools offer, did you know that only about 60% of US high schools offer even one physics class? I think sometimes people are unaware of how limited the educational opportunities are in some US public schools outside of their own former or current experience.

There are 18-19 states (less than half) that don’t mandate some FL instruction and even within those states many HS offer a language b/c the decision is relegated to the district. I make no claims about quality but if the supposition is that other countries offer language to all or the majority of their students without cost, I have no way to assess that based on this. The majority of US high school students have access to at least one language. I do know that we are constantly encouraged, as VIPKID teachers, to donate to China’s rural schools initiative b/c their poor, rural kids do not have access to English instruction either. I can’t imagine Hindu, Tagalog or German being more accessible.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Sneezyone

[KungFuPanda]

9 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

No definitely not

i don’t think it was the schoolhouse rock version just wondering if someone plagiarised the song if that makes sense?  Or maybe it’s just the concept is inherently creepy 

You need to just eat your delicious people soup and stop being so delicate.  

A whole generation of Americans can't think about conjunctions without singing the Conjunction Junction song.  School House Rock did a number on us. Don't get me started on the No More Kings song.  

[SKL]

18 minutes ago, Frances said:

Every high school in the US does not offer instruction in at least a couple of languages other than English. A good chunk don’t even offer one language other than English and most offer only Spanish. Foreign language instruction is not a strength in the US.

https://www.americancouncils.org/sites/default/files/FLE-report-June17.pdf

In terms of studying a language already spoken at home, depending on the level of parental education and other factors, a child may get a very high amount of exposure to vocabulary, grammar, reading, and writing or very little. Some children or teens who can speak it have little to no experience reading or writing it and no formal grammar instruction.

And relating to what US high schools offer, did you know that only about 60% of US high schools offer even one physics class? I think sometimes people are unaware of how limited the educational opportunities are in some US schools outside of their own former or current experience.

Not sure I am understanding the report, but I did see one sentence that says the vast majority of reporting schools offered year round Less Commonly Taught Languages (which I would assume is over and above the usual French and Spanish offerings).

That said, I probably should have considered that there are schools that wouldn't offer foreign languages based on what they were designed for.  For example, a school for kids in diversion programs, schools for kids with severe special needs, and perhaps many vocational schools might not have a foreign language program.  But in general it is a pretty common ingredient in public high school education.

Some kids certainly choose not to enroll in it, but it is there for most US kids.  Especially now with more online resources etc.

[Hannah]

1 hour ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

ETA: Here's the map and a brief summary of the American regional "nations."  I assume it's confusing for the international crowd who can't be expected to know this.  Here's a cheat sheet: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-map-11-separate-nations-colin-woodward-yankeedom-new-netherland-the-midlands-tidewater-greater-a8078261.html

For those of you interested in the different cultural nations/regions inside the US and how they came to be, this book is a helpful read: https://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures/dp/0143122029/ref=sr_1_1?crid=MJOSG9DO0U6Y&keywords=american+nations+colin+woodard&qid=1579408161&sprefix=American+nationas%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-1

Thank you for posting this.  I knew there were different cultural regions, but this really explains it well.

[Frances]

31 minutes ago, SKL said:

Not sure I am understanding the report, but I did see one sentence that says the vast majority of reporting schools offered year round Less Commonly Taught Languages (which I would assume is over and above the usual French and Spanish offerings).

That said, I probably should have considered that there are schools that wouldn't offer foreign languages based on what they were designed for.  For example, a school for kids in diversion programs, schools for kids with severe special needs, and perhaps many vocational schools might not have a foreign language program.  But in general it is a pretty common ingredient in public high school education.

Some kids certainly choose not to enroll in it, but it is there for most US kids.  Especially now with more online resources etc.

If you look at table 3, choose any state, google the number of high schools in that state, and compare it to the results in the table, you can see that in some states, a significant chunk of schools offer no foreign language. And from the table, you can see that most offer only Spanish. For example, Arizona has over 1,000 high schools with over 900 public ones, but only 261 that offer a foreign language. Spanish is  taught at more than 100 of those. 

My high school offered only two years of Spanish. And because most college bound students took it freshman and sophomore year, everyone  I knew had to start over at the beginning in college. I’m not sure they offer any foreign language at all now, as the enrollment has decreased by about 40%. And there are many much smaller high schools in my home state and there is no foreign language requirement for high school graduation.